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Title: Will tea partiers protest the $858 billion tax deal?
Source: AJC
URL Source: http://blogs.ajc.com/cynthia-tucker ... /?cxntfid=blogs_cynthia_tucker
Published: Dec 10, 2010
Author: Cynthia Tucker
Post Date: 2010-12-10 16:52:41 by go65
Keywords: None
Views: 65232
Comments: 104

During the election season, tea party activists declared deficit-reduction one of their primary goals. The nation is swimming in red ink, they noted, posing a huge burden for generations to come. So I’m waiting for those tea party activists to mount a huge protest over the tax deal between President Obama and Republicans. It is expected to cost $858 billion over ten years.

Where’s that tea party protest? Are they headed to Washington to denounce the deal, as they did repeatedly with the health care plan — which will lower the deficit over ten years?

Yes, there are other things in the deal besides tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. But extending the tax cuts for all Americans for two years cost $675.2 billion. Extending them for the richest Americans — along with generous cuts to the estate tax — will cost about $50 billion over two years. Are the tea partiers at all concerned about that?

Then were the ethanol subsidies, which most reasonable people agree are a spectacular waste of government resources — a giveaway to corn farmers. But farm state legislators wanted ethanol subsides included in the package, and they are there.

Any day now, I’m sure, tea partiers will gather on the Mall to protest this big addition to the national deficit. Any of you have your bags packed for the party?

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 67.

#2. To: All (#0)

Will tea partiers protest the $858 billion tax deal?

Nah, they are too busy celebrating:

Boehner and company OWNED Owe-bama last night.

Badeye posted on 2010-12-07 11:56:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

and

Must be killing you this morning to learn Owe-bama agrees with me, not you.

Have a nice day....(laughing)

Badeye posted on 2010-12-07 10:09:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

the first deal the GOP leadership strikes with Obama is to add nearly $900 billion to the deficit over two years.

go65  posted on  2010-12-10   16:57:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: go65 (#2)

the first deal the GOP leadership strikes with Obama is to add nearly $900 billion to the deficit over two years.

The only thing that adds to the deficit is spending. The extension to the unemployment insurance Obama insisted on does not amount to additional $900 billion than they politicians were already planning on spending.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-10   16:59:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: jwpegler (#4)

The only thing that adds to the deficit is spending.

Lowering taxes adds to the deficit.

go65  posted on  2010-12-10   17:10:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: go65 (#5)

Lowering taxes adds to the deficit.

You can't have a deficit if you don't spend money.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-10   17:13:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: jwpegler (#6)

You can't have a deficit if you don't spend money.

Fair enough, but if you lower taxes without cutting spending, you increase the deficit, as this bill will do by $858 billion over 2 years.

go65  posted on  2010-12-10   17:18:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: go65 (#7) (Edited)

but if you lower taxes without cutting spending, you increase the deficit

Yes, so they need to cut spending.

Again, if Obama were smart he would dump his own deficit commission's report right into Boehner's lap and tell him to pass it.

The commission's recommendations further cuts margin tax rates (to a top rate of 23% for individuals and 25% for businesses) while closing tax loop holes. They also cut a bunch of spending, but not enough.

I'm starting to think that Obama is smart enough to do it. We'll see.

If the GOP were smart, they would agree to implement it and add more spending cuts, especially to Obamacare.

Then we would have change that I can believe in.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-10   18:16:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: jwpegler (#8)

Yes, so they need to cut spending.

Except that Ireland showed that if you cut spending in a recession, the end result is further economic stagnation, meaning lower tax revenues, meaning right back to where you started.

How many times has California cut spending in the last couple of years? Is it helping?

I'm all for cutting spending once the economy is growing, just not now.

go65  posted on  2010-12-10   22:15:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: go65 (#12) (Edited)

Except that Ireland showed that if you cut spending in a recession, the end result is further economic stagnation, meaning lower tax revenues, meaning right back to where you started.

Ireland's troubles are very similar to ours. Their crash was caused by reckless borrowing and lending. Irish households have the second highest debt burden in the world. The government ran up a huge debt because of their profligate spending. Ireland's credit rating has plummeted. They have no choice but to cut spending.

The only thing that has temporarily saved us is that the dollar is still the world's reserve currency. That won't last long unless the U.S. government cuts spending as well.

How many times has California cut spending in the last couple of years? Is it helping?

They haven't cut spending enough. Their taxes are too high. Businesses are fleeing the state. California needs to shut down all non-essential programs, departments, and services, fire half of the bureaucracy, replace the lavish pensions for the remaining bureaucrats with 401Ks, and cut their income tax rates in half. Otherwise, they will continue to lose businesses to Washington, Idaho, Oregon, Arizona, Texas and China.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-11   13:34:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: jwpegler (#30)

Otherwise, they will continue to lose businesses to Washington, Idaho, Oregon, Arizona, Texas and China.

Nevada has no income tax; not for individuals and not for corporations. Why did you leave Nevada off your short list?

lucysmom  posted on  2010-12-11   16:38:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: lucysmom (#32)

Why did you leave Nevada off your short list?

Over the last couple of decades, Los Vegas was one of the fastest growing cities in the country. But it was mostly the result of uneducated, unskilled people moving into the state to take menial jobs in the tourist industry.

Nevada doesn't have a strong skill base to support the high tech companies that are moving out of California. The states I mentioned do.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-12   9:10:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: jwpegler (#39)

Nevada doesn't have a strong skill base to support the high tech companies that are moving out of California. The states I mentioned do.

With such a favorable tax situation, and the difference between housing costs in California and Nevada, why don't companies move to Nevada and bring their employees with them?

Nevada's high school dropout rate has increased 21% since 2002 and now has a 51% graduation rate, so the local skill thing ain't likely to improve anytime soon.

Oregon ranks 14th in the "State Business Tax Climate Index" while Nevada ranks 4th.

www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/52.html

Once upon a time Casinos were considered good employers providing well paying jobs, however working conditions and real wages have been declining since the 80s.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-12-12   12:33:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: lucysmom (#41) (Edited)

Nevada's high school dropout rate has increased 21% since 2002 and now has a 51% graduation rate, so the local skill thing ain't likely to improve anytime soon.

Irrelevant to this specific discussion on where California companies are relocating, but very relevant in a more macro sense when discussing the rotten performance of America's government monopoly schools and their negative impact our future in general.

What is relevant to attracting California's high tech firms are: A.) a great business climate and B.) world class talent.

How do you seed world class talent? One way is by having a world class research university, which attracts top global talent and spins off technology firms. Silicon Valley was seeded by Stanford University, which is a private university. Specifically, Silicon Valley was seeded by Standford graduates who created Hewlett Packard -- an evil corporation. LOL. Another way is by having a really smart guy who starts a tiny company and grows it into a really big company over the years. That company gives smart people the experiences they need to leave and create their own startups. That's the evil capitalist Bill Gates model in Seattle. Bonus the evil capitalist uses the money he made growing a huge company to seed a world class research university (like Gates and Paul Allen did in bringing world class bio-technology talent to the University of Washington).

In either case, there has to be a center of gravity that creates some dynamic around them.

Nevada creates a dynamic of gambling and hookers. In good times, those may be growth industries but they don't produce anything of lasting value that can be exportable (except for maybe sex slavery). In bad times, they wind up in the ditch because their business is 100% based on people's disposable income.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-12   15:45:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: jwpegler (#44)

Specifically, Silicon Valley was seeded by Standford graduates who created Hewlett Packard -- an evil corporation. LOL.

Actually it was Frederick Terman, the Cold War, the creation of Stanford Industrial Park, research grants from the DoD and the CIA that made Stanford and Silicon Valley.

HP had a reputation as THE place to work in this area for decades because it treated employees decently. In return, HP enjoyed immense loyalty from its employees and respect in communities where they were located. Carly Fiorina changed that.

...the evil capitalist...blah, blah, blah

Oh grow up!

lucysmom  posted on  2010-12-12   21:32:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: lucysmom, jwpegler (#46)

You are both wrong.

The "gulch" was a direct result of our inability to have "heavy lift", so we had to make things smaller and lighter. My father was involved in the lift side as an engineer for many years.

NASA Ames was the center of this effort, which is just across the highway from the gulch.

Shockley, (the inventor of the transistor), helped Fairchild and others to develop REAL "solid state" electronics for this purpose. Which were silicone based.

Hence the gulch was born and when the computer came of age it was off to the races in the gulch.

I know because I was there for a large part of it. In fact I was involved until the US gooberment started their VHLSI program and installed high level security on the industry participants.

Which is a real pain in the ass, and makes everything harder for everyone involved. (Been there done that.) No more money for the extra hassle so F it.

So I shook the silicone from my sandals and headed north.

Now TRY to tell me that I'm wrong you ignorant bitch.

Poor lucy

Mad Dog  posted on  2010-12-12   23:46:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Mad Dog (#47) (Edited)

History of Silicon Valley:

In 1909, Charles Herrold started the first radio station in the United States with regularly scheduled programming in San Jose.

Later that year, Stanford University graduate Cyril Elwell purchased the U.S. patents for Poulsen arc radio transmission technology and founded the Federal Telegraph Corporation (FTC) in Palo Alto.

In 1935, Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard graduated in electrical engineering from Stanford University. The company originated in a garage in nearby Palo Alto during a fellowship they had with a past professor, Frederick Terman at Stanford.

On and on and on...

This was long before there was any Cold War or transistor.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-13   15:55:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: jwpegler (#48) (Edited)

Silicon Valley or the "gulch" as those who live and work there call it, is famous for it's SILICON based advanced electronics development and production.

I CHALLENGE you to show me ANYWHERE the gulch was called the "silicon valley" before Shockely's invention of the transistor in 1956.

But YOU CANNOT because there was no such thing anywhere in the world until 1956 when "solid state" circuits, (the point contact transistor) was INVENTED.

Was there a basic aggregation of some electronics firms including HP before 1956? Yes, there certainly was.

BUT it was NOT the "SILICON VALLEY", how could it be? Because there was no such thing as a silicon based circuit until 1956.

So there was a place that had some concentration of electronics firms in the Sunnyvale area "long before any cold War or transistor", but IT WAS NOT THE SILICON Valley.

Get it?

"The Birth of "Silicon" Valley

With a series of inventions, all made from "silicon," semiconductor at AT&T Bell Laboratory in 1947, Integrated Circuit (IC) at Fairchild Semiconductor in Mountain View in 1958, and the first microprocessor named 4004-chip at Intel in 1971, the Computer Revolution broke out and went on. By then, several big companies such as General Electric, Ford Philco and IBM established their facilities in Palo Alto and other neighboring cities such as Mountain View and San Jose. The phrase Silicon Valley was coined by journalist Don C. Hoefler in 1971 in a series of articles for ELECTRONIC NEWS, a weekly industry tabloid."

www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~kenken/svhis.htm< /a>

Mad Dog  posted on  2010-12-13   17:05:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Mad Dog (#50) (Edited)

BUT it was NOT the "SILICON VALLEY", how could it be? Because there was no such thing as a silicon based circuit until 1956.

The discussion was NOT about how Silicon Valley got it's name. The discussion was how Silicon Valley started. It stated and grew because of Standford University. Standford University was its center of gravity. That was the original point being made.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-13   17:35:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: jwpegler (#54)

The discussion was NOT about how Silicon Valley got it's name. The discussion was how Silicon Valley started. It stated and grew because of Standford University. Standford University was its center of gravity. That was the original point being made.

You got that wrong too, so I wouldn't press the point if I were you.

WTF do you do for a living?

NOT "electronics" I'd wager.

Mad Dog  posted on  2010-12-13   17:48:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Mad Dog (#57) (Edited)

WTF do you do for a living?

I'm in the computer industry in Seattle. I fly to the valley all of the time.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-13   20:25:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: jwpegler (#59)

WTF do you do for a living?

I'm in the computer industry in Seattle. I fly to the valley all of the time.

LOL!

So WHAT? LOL!

Dude I'm not some bimbo you met in an airport bar.

WHAT do you DO for a living?

Let me guess, software geek eh?

Because IF you had any background in HARDWARE, you'd know that wishing does NOT make it go.

Mad Dog  posted on  2010-12-13   22:06:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 67.

#73. To: Mad Dog, lucysmom (#67) (Edited)

You are two of the dumbest and more stubborn people I have ever met. I need to stop wasting my time talking to you.

Silicon Valley Historical Society

The phenomenon known since the 1970s as Silicon Valley can be traced to origins in the 1890s when Leland Stanford established a university at Palo Alto...

Pioneer professors, especially in the sciences and engineering, took Senator Stanford’s cue and collaborated with nearby industries from the outset...

Palo Alto became an early test bed for radio experiment. Later it became the locale for development of continuous-wave transmission powered by arc generators...

At Standford university, Fred Terman was firmly entrenched as the leading U.S. academic man in radio engineering. Even before becoming Electrical Engineering department head in 1937, Terman encouraged his students to start businesses...

The Hewlett Packard Story (From the film "Silicon Valley: 110 year Renaissance"):

In 1935, two Standford Graduates...

Silicon Valley is there because of Standford University. It's first big growth company was Hewlett Packard, which was formed by two Standard Graduates in 1935. Without Standford University, there would be no Silicon Valley. This is common knowledge, yet you two deny it. It's madding. I am going to stop talking to both of you because you are idiots.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-12-14 11:51:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 67.

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