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Title: LTC Lakin’s Court-Martial Nears
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URL Source: http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/
Published: Dec 6, 2010
Author: None
Post Date: 2010-12-06 13:45:24 by Skip Intro
Keywords: None
Views: 97244
Comments: 116
LTC Terrence Lakin’s court-martial opens next week on December 14 at Fort Meade, Maryland. I saw a photo online recently of Lakin with his beautiful family, which I won’t post here for the sake of their privacy. But I felt very sad looking at it. Lakin’s irresponsible actions gambled with their future security and family reputation. I wonder if the GOP ops behind this miserable fiasco, like Margaret Hemenway and Paul Rolf Jensen, or World Net Daily, for that matter, ever give a thought to what they have done to these kids. All the Birthers out there, every single one, who pushed this man farther and farther to self-immolation should be ashamed, including, more recently, his own brother. It would be one thing if LTC Lakin had continued with the Birther defense. Lakin must have realized the damage he was doing to his family and to the service and himself, or he wouldn’t have fired the American Patriot Foundation and hired a non-Birther lawyer, one of the best in the military law business, to represent his interests over the Birther movement’s interests. It’s a shame the Birther movement continues to exploit Lakin in defiance of his legal strategy. No sympathy here for LTC Lakin–he deserves what he gets–but for his children. And for the armed forces, who have better things to worry about than half-assed, unpatriotic conspiracy movements. Col. Dwight Sullivan of CAAFlog described on The Fogbow how the military sentencing process works in a plea bargain: In the military, the convening authority (the commanding general or other high ranking official who decided to prosecute the case) actually enters into a contract with the defendant (called an accused in military justice parlance). The convening authority agrees that if the accused pleads guilty and does whatever else he or she agrees to do, then the convening authority will reduce the accused’s sentence to an agree-upon limit. The case then goes to court-martial, where the accused pleads guilty and goes through a “Care inquiry,” during which the accused is required to convince the military judge that he or she is actually guilty. This is a lengthy process during which the accused basically has to explain in his or her own words why his or her conduct satisfied every element of the offenses to which he or she has pled guilty. Once the military judge finds the accused guilty in accordance with the pleas, the case then moves immediately into a sentencing hearing. There are no presentence reports — sentencing is an adversarial evidentiary process, much like a contested trial. At the end of the sentencing case, the sentencer (it could be the military judge alone or a panel of service members) deliberates and then announces a sentence. (For members, it generally takes a 2/3 vote for the sentence, though there are some exceptions to that rule.) Then the accused gets the lighter of the sentence adjudged or the sentence as agreed to with the convening authority. So the defense can, as we say, “beat the deal” by getting the sentencer to adjudge a more lenient sentence than that in the contract (called a PTA for pre-trial agreement) between the convening authority and the accused. During the defense’s sentencing case, the accused can elect to either testify under oath or make an unsworn statement to the court-martial. If the accused testifies under oath, he can be (and almost invariably will be) cross-examined by the prosecutor. If the accused makes an unsworn statement, he isn’t subject to cross-examination, though the prosecution in its rebuttal case is allowed to rebut any statements of fact made during the unsworn statement, but not opinions. Military case law construing the right to make an unsworn statement holds that the accused can say just about anything he wants. In practice, because the case law is so expansive, a military judge almost never precludes the accused from saying something because she knows that if she does, there’s a pretty good chance she’ll get reversed on appeal. So, if LTC Lakin so chooses, there could indeed be an “open mike afternoon” at his court-martial during which he would have the option of delivering a birther manifesto. He would almost certainly be allowed to do so if he wants. (Of course, the sentencing authority — be it Judge Lind or a panel of Army colonels — will then be free to consider that as a matter in aggravation when determining the appropriate sentence.) Col. Sullivan intends to attend the trial, so we can look forward to his reports on CAAFlog. A very interesting interview he had recently on Reality Check is well worth listening to. If he does attend the court-martial, Reality Check will be lucky again to have him as a guest to discuss it. Don’t miss the show next week.
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#1. To: Skip Intro, *Hypocrisy and Hypocrites* (#0)
OR......,Barry Soetoro could have saved this man's children by releasing his birth certificate.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
He did that. Birthers are too stupid to have figured that out.
Hussein Soetoro holds himself in higher regard than anyone or anything. Everyone and everything else can go to hell for all he cares. Liberals are too stupid to have figured that out.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
Ok,Buckwheat,so show it to us? Not a certificate of birth,a actual birth certificate. Assuming of course that you aren't so stupid and blinded by your masters magnificence you think they are the same thing.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Please, play this game with someone who gives a shit. It doesn't matter what OBama's status is. Lakin disobeyed a lawful order from his direct superior. End of case. He's going down hard because he allowed himself to be made a fool of by the birthers.
LOL!! Spare us your disgustingly misdirected false concern for the innocent. The really sad thing here is that a man of integrity is falsely labeled irresponsible for challenging the criminal behavior of a revolting scum bag political puppet and the human slime that owns that puppet.
LOL!! No POS criminal political puppet is Lakin's superior. That is what he is telling you.
Damn, Skivvy. You're getting your ass kicked tonight. But then, all it takes is the truth and you're nothing but a rubber chicken.
Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over.
That's something you'll never have to deal with..eh cupcake? What ever his fate is, you'll never have to worry it will happen to you, because you don't have the guts it takes to stand up to your superiors, even if you knew they were wrong, you'd kiss their boots and pray they didn't kick you in the face and make you cry. SPIT! Filthy damn spineless worm.....
"I really wanna care. I wanna feel somethin'. Let me dig a little deeper:. No, My give-a-damn's busted"~ Jo Dee Messina
Please spare those of us who are sane your HorseHillary about lawful orders. Acting President Soetoro can not give lawful orders because he is not a lawful president. Larkin offered him the chance to prove he is legally qualified to hold that office,and he failed the challenge.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
He didn't give the orders. Try this defense the next time a cop pulls you over for a speeding ticket. Explain to him that the law isn't valid because the president is a fraud. Better yet, don't pay your taxes for the same reason. Enjoy your fine.
Mad Dog, is that you? You birthers are lunatics you understand, don't you? Let's have the entire military refuse to follow orders until each and every single one of them is shown whatever evidence they require that the current president is legit. We may as well disband it now. At least we'll save a shitload of money.
It kills me to say this...but LtC Latkin is painfully wrong here, and is going to pay a dreadful price, as will his family. He disobeyed a lawful order, folks. Period. And you all know I have no use for our POTUS politically. I think he's a disaster that only Jimmy Carter can match. If he felt this way, he should have resigned his commission. That he didn't was a huge error in judgement on his part. He will lose. And he will be made an example of. The 'birthers' and the 'truthers' are two sides of the same fucked up coin in short. JMHO.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
I'm no Birther. and this man is a fool, but he's a brave fool who will hopefully start a trend. the U.S. government is in violation of all its own laws, not to mention the Constitution and therefore, no military officer can accept orders from it, legally.
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
It's obvious you know as little about the military as you do everything else. A President is also the commander in chief,and he is the man that gives the orders to the military. Try this defense the next time a cop pulls you over for a speeding ticket. Explain to him that the law isn't valid because the president is a fraud. Better yet, don't pay your taxes for the same reason. You are so bleeping ignorant you don't even understand the difference between the local police and the Defense Department. Which I guess isn't really surprising coming from someone that wants government in charge of the people. BTW,are you by any chance related to Yukon? Maybe his slow little brother?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
He didn't directly give the orders. You might try reading the UCMJ on this. It's quite clear. I'm done with this. Lakin's going down, even his lawyer says so. He was an idiot to allow the birthers to frame his defense. Now he's toast. Deal with it. No one in the military gets to pick and choose what orders they'll choose to follow without facing the consequences. I'm amazed how many birthers would choose for it to be otherwise.
He disobeyed a lawful order, folks. Period. And you all know I have no use for our POTUS politically. I think he's a disaster that only Jimmy Carter can match. If he felt this way, he should have resigned his commission. That he didn't was a huge error in judgement on his part. He will lose. And he will be made an example of. I believe everything you say will come to pass, but my question is, why would a person like him, with everything going for him throw it all away just to suffer, and his family suffer as well?
"I really wanna care. I wanna feel somethin'. Let me dig a little deeper:. No, My give-a-damn's busted"~ Jo Dee Messina
I have no insight on this one, murron. I don't get it either. He should have resigned if he felt that strongly about it, at least then he could have found work in the private sector, maybe with a defense contractor.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
You're right. He gave the orders to the people that gave the orders.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
I don't get it either. He did it because it was the right thing to do,and he took a oath to protect and defend the Constitution. The Constitution sets certain standards that any president MUST meet in order to be the CiC and give orders to the military. It is the DUTY of career officers to insure those standards are met in order to avoid following illegal orders. Military people are always putting not only their careers but their actual lives at risk in order to do the right thing. The only thing surprising to me is that more haven't done it.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
sneaky, For that to be 'valid' both as a debate point, or a defense in his coming court martial, he would have to have proof positive POTUS is not an American Citizen. He simply doesn't.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
It is? The U.S. army is the biggest collection of cowards in the history of armed forces.
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
And he can't do that because the man that is ultimately responsible for his court-martial refuses to provide proof that the Colonel is wrong. ALL it would take to settle this whole matter is for the acting president to release his actual birth certificate.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Really? Have you explained that to any of them face to face,Ahab?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Indeed. And they agreed with me.
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
C'mon tell us again how you he-roically kicked some panamainian ass. how one dingbat nearly got you with a sharpened mango.
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
LOL... still chasing your tail on this one, David Duke. So not only are you a Storm Front trooper, but you're a proud member of the Birther Brigade! You must be so proud!
didn't you vote for john kerry?
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
lol. our retired imperial welfare-vets are annoyed that someone doesn't fall to the ground and worship them for their 'service' oppressing sovereign peoples overseas.
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
Nope, I voted third party in 2004. How about you? Furthermore, how is that relevant?
checking your credibility levels. so far so good. I don't vote.
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
I didn't kick anyone's ass down there, and I saw no mango trees. I've seen them in Thailand and the Islands of Guam and Saipan, but not in Central America. The 'Dignity Battalions' didn't put up much of a fightas they were intimidated by the large size and scopeof the invasion force. And it was that big to do precisely that. I did see large groups of howler monkeys though that were all smart enough to tutor the neutered as mud dumb as ewe though.
Yeah,I'll bet.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Still smarting over me proving the first slave holder in the English-speaking New World was a black man,ain't ya? Your whole belief system must have been shaken by that one,Buckwheat.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Burden of proof is with the Colonel, sneaky.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
Burden of proof is with the Colonel, sneaky. Lakin is responsible for his court-martial. He is the person who failed to comply with a lawful order. Obama's place of birth is irrelevant.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
He did not chose his battles wisely. Bottome line. Good post my dear. Let's hope he grows to realize this and can heal from the cancer of his hatred that is costing him so dearly.
Really? He now has to prove he is innocent? This is America. I thought the burden of proof was on the prosecution,and they were charged with proving guilt. If THEY were to produce the actual birth certificate,they would prove their case beyond all doubt. If they won't/can't do this,they have no case.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Lakin is responsible for his court-martial. BullBarack! He is the person who failed to comply with a lawful order. PROVE it was a lawful order,dummy. You can't,because the only way to prove this is to produce Barry Soetoro's actual birth certificate,and he is unwilling to do this. Since he IS the prosecution (they work for him) his refusal to produce any proof that the Colonel is guilty as charged SHOULD lead to the case being dismissed. It is within his power to produce the proof IF he can,and he won't. Now,I know you lefties get wood at the thought of a all-powerful government that makes our decisions for us,but do you REALLY want to get a government court the ability to find someone guilty without having to produce any evidence of his guilt? Obama's place of birth is irrelevant. Proving once again why you are a Dim. You could no more be anything else than a fish could learn how to fly or a mule could learn how to tap dance.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
now Pete, you know as well as I do, that only 1/10 of the U.S. army are fighting men. for the rest, it's just a job corps.
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
The U.S. Army is a teamwork organization with what is called a head to tail ratio. What that means is some fight, and others logistically support those actively fighting in any theater of operation the U.S. Military is deployed in. I'm surprised you feel you need to lash out with the obvious. Because this is the nature of the beast, and no one disputes this.
Yep. The person making the claim, in this case the Lt colonel, bears the burden of proof here. There is no legal spin to this basic judicial concept.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
I repeat: the U.S. army is the biggest collection of cowards in the history of armed forces.
Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!
No, he has to prove his claim that POTUS wasn't born in America is based in fact. He hasn't, and its my view he simply can't. The guy fucked up here big time, sneaky. You know it.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
He listened to the wrong people.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Lakin is being judged on what he did, that is the relevant evidence that must be produced in court. Even if Obama were an illegal immigrant, or whatever birthers claim at the moment, and if the order came directly from Obama, himself, rather than drown the chain of command in support of a policy established by the previous POTUS, according to the de facto officer doctrine, the order would still be legal.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Like always, you birthers have it ass backwards. Lakin is the one where the burden of proof falls. You've been drinking the Goldi Kool-Aid too long.
There is no legal spin to this basic judicial concept. Sneaky, when Badeye and I agree there is nothing left for you but to face the fact that you are wrong.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
You really do miss the "good old days" of Stalinism and the USSR,don't you?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Nothing exposes the hypocrisy AND the stupidity of you lefties than this issue. You are all foaming at the mouth and DEMANDING the defendant PROVE his innocence. Here is a clue for you. In America it is the PROSECUTION that is supposed to prove their case,not the defense. Fries your fritters doesn't it,comrade?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Actually I think you would be more at home in the old USSR where the law de jour was the product of expedience.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
No, you idiot. He has to defend himself against the charges filed against him. They're real simple, so simple I'm surprised you can't follow them. Did he disobey a direct order? Yes or No? That's the way it works.
These people must be hurting themselves, what with all the spin and twist needed to see it any other way. It would seem to me that if he's being charged with failure to follow a lawful order, he is the defendant, and the prosecution has to prove the order was lawful. Basic, straightforward, and simple.
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
No he doesn't skip. All he has to do is sit there with his arms folded and tell the prosecution, "prove your charge against me".
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
Well, that's true. He can do that and he'll be convicted in record time. There's no question whatever that he disobeyed a direct order. If he hadn't, he'd be in Afghanistan now.
The prosecution is charging him with disobeying a LAWFUL direct order. The burden of proof that the order was LAWFUL is on the prosecution. Now how does the prosecution do this, since it appears that just about every record of Obama's life has been sealed? Seems to me the prosecution is the one in a bind here. But Justice has long ago left our courtrooms, replaced by wormtongues, arguing not justice, but the law. Cicero had it correct when he wrote, "But the most foolish notion of all is the belief that everything is just which is found in the customs or laws of nations."
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
And then wonder when the locust will arrive....(grin)
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
Good luck with that. Try and think about this for a minute. According to you, every single order given to every single service member could be challenged in court for this reason. I suggest you spend some time reviewing the UCMJ on what the term "lawful order" means, then try again.
That's because you are an idiot. I have said it before and I will say it again,I hope Lucy sues you when she becomes an adult for defaming her all over the internet by telling people you are her mother.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Was it a lawful order? Yes,or no? IF it was a lawful order,the prosecution should have no trouble PROVING that,right,numbnuts?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
What could be more obvious? Other than the blind devotion of the idiots to their Chocolate Messiah,that is.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Yeah, they could. And could be a large part of the reason why "unlawful" orders are not usually given. We have swerved yet again into arguing what is law, not what is "just". Again, I direct you to Cicero, "But the most foolish notion of all is the belief that everything is just which is found in the customs or laws of nations." That being said, the military is not a democracy, nor a Republic. It is a dictatorship. Pure and simple. It is not necessarily "just".
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
ROFLMAO! Good one! And to think that some people claim you have no sense of humor!
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
No,dummy,ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION. You know,that "goddamn piece of paper" you and Boy Jorge hold in contempt.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Well pete, now you know how the sheep feels after the wolves have voted on what's for dinner.
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
OK Pete. Acording to THE CONSTUTION, everytime a captain orders a change in course the helmsman can refuse until he has his day in court. Same goes for a mess cook, a supply sergeant, a field commander. No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court. Is that the way you see it? Again, I suggest you and Woody take the time to read the UCMJ on the subject. All I can do is try to explain it to you. Unfortunately, I can't understand it for you too.
Skip, I think that's a "straw man". Your argument is akin to saying, "All guns should be confiscated because everyone who has one could shoot someone." I don't see any evidence of whole scale "refusal of orders until the orders are proven at a courts martial to be lawful" going on anywhere. Do you? When the prosecution proves that the order was lawful, the guy is guilty as charged. When an unconstitutional law is written and passed, it is null and void, and carries no force of law. That is why the "unconstitutionality" of a law can be used as a defense. Basically, without access to all the records that have been sealed, it's impossible for either side in this to prove its case. And if the prosecution can't prove its case, the guy walks. Don't you think it a bit unjust to demand the defendant prove something that, under current circumstances (the proof he needs is "sealed") is impossible to prove, while giving a pass to the prosecution on having to do the very same thing? If it were possible to prove under current circumstances, the prosecution would do it, and win.
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
The piece you're missing is that Obama's birth has nothing to do with Lakin's guilt or innocence anymore than my citizenship does.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Who says that?!?!?!
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Can I kiss your crimson colored ass?
Well,if the president has ordered the fleet to change direction and go into a hostile zone,the answer is "YES,if it is not clear that the president is legally holding the office." This has never came up before because no other president has ever refused to show their birth certificate. I doubt it would have even occurred to any previous president to refuse to prove he were legally qualified to hold that office. No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court. Presidents don't issue orders to clean the floors. They issue orders to move masses of troops into harms way.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Buy you books,send you to schools,and even give you a diploma,and you are still incapable of adding 2+2. Obama's birth has EVERYTHING to do with Larkins innocence or guilt. If Barry Soetoro was not legally elected,he can't legally order Larkin to do a damn thing.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
No. A simple bow will suffice.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Coming from Meg, that's probably an invite for some kind of bath house hangout.
It is more than likely many of our presidents didn't have birth certificates. ...it wasn’t until 1853 that the United Kingdom made it mandatory to register certified birth records for each citizen. In the 1900s, the United States followed suit. Prior to that time, birth records were generally written down by doctors, midwives, or priests. Documents were not certified or recorded by the government, and it was very common for documents to be lost or destroyed. Therefore, there was no “official record” of any citizens until they reached adulthood and started paying taxes or joined the military. birthdetails.com/blog/his...rth-records-certificates/ Obama published his Certificate of Live Birth on the internet, I can't recall any other president ever publishing the same, anywhere, ever. No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court. Man, I bet guys drafted and sent off to Vietnam wish they'd thought of that.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Obama was legally elected by popular vote, again by the electoral college, and accepted without challenge by Congress.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Man, I bet guys drafted and sent off to Vietnam wish they'd thought of that. Are you saying Kennedy and Johnson were frauds? Who knew, coming from a leftard.
Man, I bet guys drafted and sent off to Vietnam wish they'd thought of that. Are you saying Kennedy and Johnson were frauds? Would you have denied those draftees a court order legitimizing their orders? Remember, Sneaky sez ain't no one got to obey an order lessin the court sez so. (psst - the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States presided over Obama's oath taking.>
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
What? Are you saying Kennedy beat Nixon legitimately? Hell, everybody knows old Joe Kennedy stole that election for John. Of course that means LBJ was illegitimate too. And that means that Viet Nam was an illegitimate war. Better watch out Eric or the John Birch Society will revoke your lifetime membership, you lefty bastard.
It was obvious without question that Johnson and Kennedy were US born. Not so with the Kenyan.
It's obvious without question that JFK stole the election in 1960. Therefore, using Birther Logic, every single thing he did as president was illegal, as was that of his VP and successor.
Do you think this judge who swore him in witnessed some sort of proof that Obama was who he said he was, and Obaman was born where he said he was born? Or maybe he spoke to those responsable for vetting him, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Alice Travis Germond, the secretary of the Democratic National Convention, two people who could put all of this bull shit to rest, and the minds of our soldiers at peace that they are serving a constitutionally elligible president, if Pelosi and Germond would come forward and confirm what they put their names to on these two documents (below). It means, these women could swear under oath, at the risk of 'perjury' if lying, that Obama is a natural born citizen, that he has been properly vetted by them. This first image (TOP) of the certification for Barack Obama's nomination, including the affirmation Obama and Joe Biden "are legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution" The second form (BOTTOM) appears identical, down to a typographical error in "through." But in this one, the verification of eligibility under the requirements of the U.S. Constitution is gone. The DNC drafted, signed and notarized TWO slightly different versions of their Official Certification of Nomination documents, not one," he wrote. "One of those documents had complete legal language, and one of them was missing the text concerning the constitutional eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama. "The version which is absent any certification of constitutional standing for the office of president is the version that was filed with every state in the country, and the one used by the DNC to elect Barack Obama president," he wrote. The Democratic National Committee were contacted multiple times over three days to request an explanation of the two images, including whether one might be a forgery. A spokeswoman in the press office confirmed, "We are aware of it," but declined to elaborate. Pelosi's office was contacted, but got no response over. And the White House declined to respond to multiple e-mails asking for a comment. BOTTOM LINE!! There is no way in HELL Pelosi, Germond, or anyone on his team is going to step forward and SWEAR this man is a legal citizen of this nation, because they all know the truth....he is NOT! They will only go so far for this man, but they most certainly will not take the fall for this one at the risk of being found guilty on perjury, and maybe even treason charges! jmho! ~ Murron "I really wanna care. I wanna feel somethin'. Let me dig a little deeper:. No, My give-a-damn's busted"~ Jo Dee Messina
Mammy, say it ain't so...
LOL...you made me laugh out loud...
"I really wanna care. I wanna feel somethin'. Let me dig a little deeper:. No, My give-a-damn's busted"~ Jo Dee Messina
lucysmomn, are you REALLY that stupid, or do you just play stupid so you can lie your ass off about pete then simply say, "oh, dumb me, I made a mistake"????? Here's the quote you attribute to pete from his post#72: In post #72, pete is QUOTING Skip Intro who was actually the author of "No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court." in skip's post #67, copied below: #67. To: sneakypete (#65) OK Pete. Acording to THE CONSTUTION, everytime a captain orders a change in course the helmsman can refuse until he has his day in court. Same goes for a mess cook, a supply sergeant, a field commander. No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court. Is that the way you see it? Again, I suggest you and Woody take the time to read the UCMJ on the subject. All I can do is try to explain it to you. Unfortunately, I can't understand it for you too. Skip Intro posted on 2010-12-08 13:27:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply So which is it? Are you just a fucking liar, or too fucking stupid to figure out who posted what? I hope you don't vote.
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
Nah,I am not sure what it was,but I'm pretty sure it wasn't that.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
That's not a birth certificate,and no other president ever had to have a privacy seal put on their birth certificate. No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court. That's nice,but I didn't say it.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Obama was legally elected by popular vote, again by the electoral college, and accepted without challenge by Congress. No,he wasn't. We don't even know if his legal name is Obama. We KNOW that at one time it was Barry Soetoro,but nobody named Barry Soetoro was ever elected.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
That's true. And that means that Viet Nam was an illegitimate war. That's not.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
So what? Kennedy wasn't legally elected due to voter fraud. Which means that LBJ wasn't,either.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Neither did Obama. That's nice,but I didn't say it. Please accept my humble apologies.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Do you think Scooter is Libby's legal name?
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
You've got a lot more patience than I have.
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
Neither did Obama. Yes,he did. Or are you calling the Governor of Hawaii a liar?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
No.Is Scooter the name he was sworn in by? Is it the name on his pay checks,passport,and banking accounts?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Maybe,but I just ran out of patience on this thread and won't be responding to it anymore. This thread is proof you can lead a Dim to knowledge,but you can't make them understand it.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Even if you could make a case that Kennedy stole Illinois and give that State to Nixon (and I am certainly not suggesting a case can't be made), Nixon would have lost anyway.
My turning point came when, toward the end of a lengthy thread about a guy on trial for refusing to follow orders because Obama may not be Constitutionally eligible to hold the office, lucysmom writes: Nah, not much. It's just the entire crux of the matter.
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
I wouldn't know, I haven't seen his passport, checks, or birth certificate (perhaps he had it sealed). The point is that many people are known by names other than what appears on their birth certificate - we call those "nicknames", like Billy for William, Johnny for Jonathan, or even Barry for Barack. It is possible, likely even, that Barry is just Obama's childhood nickname. As for "Soetoro", how many examples do we have of Obama using that name? Does it appear on any legal document? What proof do you have that Soetoro was ever Obama's legal name?
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Yes,he did. Or are you calling the Governor of Hawaii a liar? When did the governor of Hawaii say that Obama had "a privacy seal put on their [his] birth certificate"?
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
For you, Lakin and Orly Taitz it is the crux of the matter. In the eyes of the law, it is irrelevant. Too bad Lakin wasn't able to make that distinction.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Sorry I didn't ping you to #99. My bozo count went up by one (after my #86) and I figured that was you, so I thought pinging you would be futile. We'll see.
And the sheep will bleat their submission, Burma Shave.
My bozo list is reserved for those who have nothing to offer beyond chronic crudeness. My standards are so high, only one poster has ever made my list. ;-)
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
As for "Soetoro", how many examples do we have of Obama using that name? Does it appear on any legal document? What proof do you have that Soetoro was ever Obama's legal name? It's idiots like you that have ruined the country. Yes,there IS proof he used that name. He used it because it WAS his name after he was legally adopted by his mother's Indonesian husband,and the ONLY school record of his that has ever been released is a report card in that name from the school he went to in Indonesia. Your daughter should slap you for not giving her away at birth. That way she may have had a chance at a semi-normal life.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Are you Yukon's sister?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Admit it. There is only one poster whose insults you understood.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Well hell, there goes another cup of coffee....lmao...
"I really wanna care. I wanna feel somethin'. Let me dig a little deeper:. No, My give-a-damn's busted"~ Jo Dee Messina
It's probably me, because of all the posters here, not one of them comes close to bringing out the 'crudeness' in me like you do. Reading your responses here just reafirms just how terminally STUPID you are! jmho!
"I really wanna care. I wanna feel somethin'. Let me dig a little deeper:. No, My give-a-damn's busted"~ Jo Dee Messina
How do you know Obama was legally adopted? Report card from a school in Indonesia - well that's conclusive - not. Your daughter should slap you for not giving her away at birth. That way she may have had a chance at a semi-normal life. Over all you seem like a decent guy. The above statement is beneath you.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Nope.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
LOL Could be that too.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Curious comment coming from padlock, the guy who spent 8 years sucking Bush's cock.
Good point! The only real proof we have is his own word,and we all know what a liar he is. Do you know anything about anything?
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
Bottom line, you don't know anything, its just a rumor you're particularly fond of repeating.
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. Thomas Jefferson
Bottom line, you don't know anything, its just a rumor you're particularly fond of repeating Bottom line,you are a Soetoro Suckup,and he could eat a live baby on tv and you wouldn't believe your lying eyes. You have no honor and no honesty.
"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)
#2. To: sneakypete (#1)
OR......,Barry Soetoro could have saved this man's children by releasing his birth certificate.
#3. To: Skip Intro (#2)
#4. To: Skip Intro (#2)
He did that. Birthers are too stupid to have figured that out.
#5. To: sneakypete (#4)
(Edited)
#6. To: Skip Intro (#0)
But I felt very sad looking at it. Lakin’s irresponsible actions gambled with their future security and family reputation.
#7. To: Skip Intro (#5)
Lakin disobeyed a lawful order from his direct superior.
#8. To: Skip Intro (#5)
#9. To: Skip Intro (#5)
"Lakin disobeyed a lawful order from his direct superior".
#10. To: Skip Intro (#5)
Please, play this game with someone who gives a shit. It doesn't matter what OBama's status is. Lakin disobeyed a lawful order from his direct superior. End of case.
#11. To: sneakypete (#10)
Acting President Soetoro can not give lawful orders because he is not a lawful president.
#12. To: Murron (#9)
SPIT!
#13. To: all (#0)
#14. To: Skip Intro (#0)
#15. To: Skip Intro (#11)
He didn't give the orders.
#16. To: sneakypete (#15)
A President is also the commander in chief,and he is the man that gives the orders to the military.
#17. To: Badeye (#13)
It kills me to say this...but LtC Latkin is painfully wrong here, and is going to pay a dreadful price, as will his family.
#18. To: Murron (#17)
I believe everything you say will come to pass, but my question is, why would a person like him, with everything going for him throw it all away just to suffer, and his family suffer as well?
#19. To: Skip Intro (#16)
He didn't directly give the orders.
#20. To: Badeye, Murron (#18)
I have no insight on this one, murron.
#21. To: sneakypete (#20)
#22. To: sneakypete (#20)
The only thing surprising to me is that more haven't done it.
#23. To: continental op (#22)
#24. To: Badeye (#21)
For that to be 'valid' both as a debate point, or a defense in his coming court martial, he would have to have proof positive POTUS is not an American Citizen.
#25. To: continental op (#22)
The U.S. army is the biggest collection of cowards in the history of armed forces.
#26. To: sneakypete (#25)
#27. To: Ferret Mike (#23)
#28. To: sneakypete (#24)
And he can't do that because the man that is ultimately responsible for his court-martial refuses to provide proof that the Colonel is wrong. ALL it would take to settle this whole matter is for the acting president to release his actual birth certificate.
#29. To: meguro (#28)
#30. To: All (#27)
#31. To: continental op (#29)
didn't you vote for john kerry?
#32. To: meguro (#31)
(Edited)
#33. To: continental op (#27)
#34. To: continental op (#26)
Indeed. And they agreed with me.
#35. To: meguro (#28)
LOL... still chasing your tail on this one, David Duke. So not only are you a Storm Front trooper, but you're a proud member of the Birther Brigade!
#36. To: sneakypete (#24)
And he can't do that because the man that is ultimately responsible for his court-martial refuses to provide proof that the Colonel is wrong
#37. To: Badeye, sneakypete (#36)
And he can't do that because the man that is ultimately responsible for his court-martial refuses to provide proof that the Colonel is wrong
#38. To: lucysmom (#37)
"Lakin is responsible for his court-martial."
#39. To: Badeye (#36)
Burden of proof is with the Colonel, sneaky.
#40. To: lucysmom (#37)
(Edited)
#41. To: sneakypete (#34)
#42. To: continental op (#41)
#43. To: lucysmom (#37)
Lakin is responsible for his court-martial. He is the person who failed to comply with a lawful order. Obama's place of birth is irrelevant.
#44. To: Ferret Mike (#42)
#45. To: sneakypete (#39)
Really? He now has to prove he is innocent?
#46. To: Ferret Mike (#38)
He did not chose his battles wisely. Bottome line.
#47. To: sneakypete (#40)
Now,I know you lefties get wood at the thought of a all-powerful government that makes our decisions for us,but do you REALLY want to get a government court the ability to find someone guilty without having to produce any evidence of his guilt?
#48. To: sneakypete (#40)
PROVE it was a lawful order,dummy.
#49. To: Badeye, sneakypete (#43)
The person making the claim, in this case the Lt colonel, bears the burden of proof here.
#50. To: lucysmom (#47)
Even if Obama were an illegal immigrant, or whatever birthers claim at the moment, and if the order came directly from Obama, himself, rather than drown the chain of command in support of a policy established by the previous POTUS, according to the de facto officer doctrine, the order would still be legal.
#51. To: Skip Intro, *Hypocrisy and Hypocrites* (#48)
Like always, you birthers have it ass backwards. Lakin is the one where the burden of proof falls. You've been drinking the Goldi Kool-Aid too long.
#52. To: sneakypete (#50)
You really do miss the "good old days" of Stalinism and the USSR,don't you?
#53. To: sneakypete (#51)
You are all foaming at the mouth and DEMANDING the defendant PROVE his innocence.
#54. To: sneakypete (#51)
You are all foaming at the mouth and DEMANDING the defendant PROVE his innocence.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#55. To: Skip Intro (#53)
No, you idiot. He has to defend himself against the charges filed against him.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#56. To: Wood_Chopper (#55)
No he doesn't skip. All he has to do is sit there with his arms folded and tell the prosecution, "prove your charge against me".
#57. To: Skip Intro (#56)
There's no question whatever that he disobeyed a direct order.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#58. To: lucysmom (#49)
Sneaky, when Badeye and I agree there is nothing left for you but to face the fact that you are wrong.
#59. To: Wood_Chopper (#57)
The burden of proof that the order was LAWFUL is on the prosecution.
#60. To: lucysmom (#52)
Actually I think you would be more at home in the old USSR where the law de jour was the product of expedience.
#61. To: Skip Intro (#53)
Did he disobey a direct order? Yes or No?
#62. To: Wood_Chopper (#54)
It would seem to me that if he's being charged with failure to follow a lawful order, he is the defendant, and the prosecution has to prove the order was lawful. Basic, straightforward, and simple.
#63. To: Skip Intro (#59)
Try and think about this for a minute. According to you, every single order given to every single service member could be challenged in court for this reason.
I suggest you spend some time reviewing the UCMJ on what the term "lawful order" means, then try again.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#64. To: lucysmom, Badeye (#49)
Sneaky, when Badeye and I agree there is nothing left for you but to face the fact that you are wrong.
#65. To: Skip Intro (#59)
According to you, every single order given to every single service member could be challenged in court for this reason.
#66. To: sneakypete (#64)
Sneaky, when Badeye and I agree there is nothing left for you but to face the fact that you are wrong.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#67. To: sneakypete (#65)
#68. To: Skip Intro (#67)
OK Pete. Acording to THE CONSTUTION, everytime a captain orders a change in course the helmsman can refuse until he has his day in court. Same goes for a mess cook, a supply sergeant, a field commander.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#69. To: Wood_Chopper (#68)
Don't you think it a bit unjust to demand the defendant prove something that, under current circumstances (the proof he needs is "sealed") is impossible to prove, while giving a pass to the prosecution on having to do the very same thing?
#70. To: sneakypete (#64)
And to think that some people claim you have no sense of humor!
#71. To: sneakypete (#35)
Still smarting over me proving the first slave holder in the English-speaking New World was a black man,ain't ya? Your whole belief system must have been shaken by that one,Buckwheat.
#72. To: Skip Intro (#67)
OK Pete. Acording to THE CONSTUTION, everytime a captain orders a change in course the helmsman can refuse until he has his day in court. Same goes for a mess cook, a supply sergeant, a field commander.
#73. To: lucysmom (#69)
The piece you're missing is that Obama's birth has nothing to do with Lakin's guilt or innocence anymore than my citizenship does.
#74. To: meguro (#71)
Can I kiss your crimson colored ass?
#75. To: sneakypete (#74)
Can I kiss your crimson colored ass?
#76. To: sneakypete (#72)
This has never came up before because no other president has ever refused to show their birth certificate. I doubt it would have even occurred to any previous president to refuse to prove he were legally qualified to hold that office.
#77. To: sneakypete (#73)
If Barry Soetoro was not legally elected,he can't legally order Larkin to do a damn thing.
#78. To: lucysmom (#76)
No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court.
#79. To: no gnu taxes (#78)
No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court.
#80. To: no gnu taxes (#78)
Are you saying Kennedy and Johnson were frauds?
#81. To: lucysmom (#79)
#82. To: no gnu taxes (#81)
It was obvious without question that Johnson and Kennedy were US born. Not so with the Kenyan.
#83. To: lucysmom, no gnu taxes, sneaky pete, all (#79)
("psst - the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States presided over Obama's oath taking".>
#84. To: Murron (#83)
#85. To: Fred Mertz (#84)
Mammy, say it ain't so...
#86. To: lucysmom, sneakypete (#79)
Remember, Sneaky sez ain't no one got to obey an order lessin the court sez so.
No one has to obey any orders at all until they are proven to be legitimate by a court.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#87. To: no gnu taxes (#75)
Coming from Meg, that's probably an invite for some kind of bath house hangout.
#88. To: lucysmom (#76)
Obama published his Certificate of Live Birth on the internet, I can't recall any other president ever publishing the same, anywhere, ever.
#89. To: lucysmom (#77)
#90. To: Skip Intro (#80)
What? Are you saying Kennedy beat Nixon legitimately? Hell, everybody knows old Joe Kennedy stole that election for John. Of course that means LBJ was illegitimate too.
#91. To: no gnu taxes (#81)
It was obvious without question that Johnson and KenneKdy were US born.
#92. To: sneakypete (#88)
That's not a birth certificate,and no other president ever had to have a privacy seal put on their birth certificate.
#93. To: sneakypete (#89)
We KNOW that at one time it was Barry Soetoro,but nobody named Barry Soetoro was ever elected.
#94. To: sneakypete (#88)
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#95. To: lucysmom (#92)
That's not a birth certificate,and no other president ever had to have a privacy seal put on their birth certificate.
#96. To: lucysmom (#93)
Do you think Scooter is Libby's legal name?
#97. To: Wood_Chopper (#94)
You've got a lot more patience than I have.
#98. To: sneakypete (#91)
So what? Kennedy wasn't legally elected due to voter fraud.
#99. To: sneakypete (#97)
This thread is proof you can lead a Dim to knowledge,but you can't make them understand it.
"The piece you're missing is that Obama's birth has nothing to do with Lakin's guilt or innocence anymore than my citizenship does.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#100. To: sneakypete (#96)
No.Is Scooter the name he was sworn in by? Is it the name on his pay checks,passport,and banking accounts?
#101. To: sneakypete (#95)
That's not a birth certificate,and no other president ever had to have a privacy seal put on their birth certificate.
#102. To: Wood_Chopper (#99)
Nah, not much. It's just the entire crux of the matter.
#103. To: lucysmom (#102)
In the eyes of the law, it is irrelevant.
Seeing the others as fools,
Not knowing nor even caring,
They've become no more than tools.
#104. To: Wood_Chopper (#103)
My bozo count went up by one (after my #86) and I figured that was you...
#105. To: lucysmom (#100)
#106. To: lucysmom (#101)
When did the governor of Hawaii say that Obama had "a privacy seal put on their [his] birth certificate"?
#107. To: lucysmom (#104)
My standards are so high, only one poster has ever made my list. ;-)
#108. To: sneakypete (#105)
"Your daughter should slap you for not giving her away at birth".
#109. To: lucysmom, Wood_Chopper (#104)
"My bozo list is reserved for those who have nothing to offer beyond chronic crudeness. My standards are so high, only one poster has ever made my list"
#110. To: sneakypete (#105)
Yes,there IS proof he used that name. He used it because it WAS his name after he was legally adopted by his mother's Indonesian husband,and the ONLY school record of his that has ever been released is a report card in that name from the school he went to in Indonesia.
#111. To: Murron (#109)
It's probably me, because of all the posters here, not one of them comes close to bringing out the 'crudeness' in me like you do.
#112. To: sneakypete (#107)
Admit it. There is only one poster whose insults you understood.
#113. To: no gnu taxes, sneakypete (#75)
Coming from Meg, that's probably an invite for some kind of bath house hangout.
#114. To: lucysmom (#110)
How do you know Obama was legally adopted?
#115. To: sneakypete (#114)
The only real proof we have is his own word,and we all know what a liar he is.
#116. To: lucysmom (#115)
The only real proof we have is his own word,and we all know what a liar he is.
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