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Title: Airport security: Government in our pants
Source:
Chicago Tribune
URL Source: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ ... pman-20101114,0,3696372.column
Published: Nov 14, 2010
Author: Steve Chapman
Post Date: 2010-11-14 10:04:36 by jwpegler
Keywords: None
Views: 68375
Comments: 92
When it comes to protecting against terrorism, this is how things usually go: A danger presents itself; the federal government responds with new rules that erode privacy, treat innocent people as suspicious and blur the distinction between life in a free society and life in a correctional facility; and we all tamely accept the new intrusions, like sheep being shorn. Maybe not this time. The war on terrorism is going to get personal. Very personal. Americans have long resented the hassles that go with air travel ever since 9/11 — long security lines, limits on liquids, forced removal of footwear and so on. But if the Transportation Security Administration has its way, we will look back to 2009 as the good old days. The agency is rolling out new full-body scanners, which eventually will replace metal detectors at all checkpoints. These machines replicate the experience of taking off your clothes, but without the fun. They enable agents to get a view of your body that leaves nothing to the imagination. Restaurant.com: Get $25 gift certificates for $2 each >> A lot of people, of course, couldn't care less if a stranger wants to gaze upon everything God gave them. But some retain a modesty that makes them reluctant to parade naked in front of people they don't know, even virtually. Henceforth, Jennifer Aniston is going to think twice before flying commercial. Besides the indignity of having one's body exposed to an airport screener, there is a danger the images will find a wider audience. The U.S. Marshals Service recently admitted saving some 35,000 images from a machine at a federal courthouse in Florida. TSA says that will never happen. Human experience says, oh, yes, it will. For the camera-shy, TSA will offer an alternative: "enhanced" pat-downs. This is not the gentle frisking you may have experienced at the airport in the past. It requires agents to probe aggressively in intimate zones — breasts, buttocks, crotches. If you enjoyed your last mammography or prostate exam, you'll love the enhanced pat-down. And you'll get a chance to have an interesting conversation with your children about being touched by strangers. Reviews of the procedure are coming in, and they are not raves. The Allied Pilots Association calls it a "demeaning experience," and one pilot complained it amounted to "sexual molestation." The head of a flight attendants' union local said that for anyone who has been sexually assaulted, it will "drudge up some bad memories." But the option of the full-body scanner is not so appealing, either, even leaving out privacy concerns. Two pilots' unions have advised members not to go through the scanners because of the possible risks of being bombarded with low doses of radiation. "There is good reason to believe that these scanners will increase the risk of cancer to children and other vulnerable populations," a group of scientists from the University of California at San Francisco informed the White House. Aviation trade groups fear the public has finally been pushed over the edge. "We have received hundreds of e-mails and phone calls from travelers vowing to stop flying," Geoff Freeman, executive vice president of the U.S. Travel Association, told Reuters. The new policy is being challenged in court by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, which says it violates the Fourth Amendment's ban on unreasonable searches. But don't expect judges to save us. Says Stanford University law professor Robert Weisberg, with resignation in his voice, "Airports are pretty much a Fourth Amendment-free zone." Though the harm to privacy is certain, the benefit to public safety is not. The federal Government Accountability Office has said it "remains unclear" if the scanners would have detected the explosives carried by the would-be Christmas Day bomber. They would also be useless against a terrorist who inserts a bomb in his rectum — like the al-Qaida operative who blew himself up last year in an attempt to kill a Saudi prince. Full-body scanning will sorely chafe many innocent travelers, while creating only a minor inconvenience to bloodthirsty fanatics. The good news is that last year, the House of Representatives voted to bar the use of whole-body scanners for routine screening. But only a sustained public outcry will force a change. We will soon find out if there is a limit to the sacrifices of personal freedom that Americans will endure in the name of fighting terrorism. If we don't say no when they want to inspect and handle our private parts, when will we?
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#1. To: All (#0)
(Edited)
The bares repeating (pun intended): A danger presents itself; the federal government responds with new rules that erode privacy, treat innocent people as suspicious and blur the distinction between life in a free society and life in a correctional facility; and we all tamely accept the new intrusions, like sheep being shorn.
You should see the HUGE PILE of weapons confiscated each and every day at the nation's major airports. Seriously. Its amazing even if you've seen it - as I have at CVG many many times. TSA should have this broadcast every single day. Then passengers would understand whats actually happening at the nation's airports DAILY. As for those that want to whine about their privacy...take a train. Drive. Take a bus. And have a big warm glass of Shut the Fuck Up. JMHO.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
Who's crouch were they found in?
"I really wanna care. I wanna feel somethin'. Let me dig a little deeper:. No, My give-a-damn's busted"~ Messina Jo Dee
Lady Gillettes and toothbrushes? The TSA has already turned our airports into nightmares. Now they are turning them into prisons. If you think the TSA's incompetence is actually making us more secure, you need to put the crack pipe down and join reality.
We tell em!!! Theres so many weapons that wen they asked me what to do with them, I know TSA guys and they call me because I am a world reknownd security consaltant, I told them to box them and give them away at Christmas to needy children. Your in denial if you think otherwise as this election cycle proofed.
Since 9/11, how many terrorists have been caught by TSA? Numbers and details, please.
Getting tired of the bozoed calcon following me around on the 'net, wanting to discuss "tossing salad." Sorry, you sick rump-ranger. NOT interested.
We could try enforcing the BOR. Airport security, you can believe in!
NYC can absorb attacks. Stop this nonsense.
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Numbers and details, please. Since 9-11 there has only been one attempted terrorist attack, the shoe bomber. So TSA is 0/1. However this type of scanner is trying to prevent exactly that type of attack. Reid's bomb didn't have metal. If he didn't let his shoes get wet he would have downed that aircraft. This type of scanner can find a non metal bomb taped to a persons body in a way that a metal detector can't. Normally I'd say we should just take the risk. But every time a terrorist attack happens conservatives go ape shit and demand bigger government to deal with it. The only reason conservative's are outraged is because Obama is in office.
This type of scanner can find a non metal bomb taped to a persons body in a way that a metal detector can't. REALLY???? From http://theweek.com/article/index/201420/invasion-of-the-body-scanners Ok, don't like that? How about the following quote, from http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16768 PETN, either in shoes or strapped to any part of the body, cannot be detected by airport scanners. A chemical test is needed. Unless authorities plan to drastically reconfigure the number and availability of international flights, there is no chance that chemical tests can be introduced for every passenger. Hence we reach our first tentative conclusion: that the billions of shoes that have been scanned at airports since 2001, and the billions of pairs of underwear that will henceforth become objects of official scrutiny, have and will have had nothing to do with airport security or preventing terrorism. ...Moving on to the bomb itself; as mentioned it was PETN, or rather Pentaerythritol, which is a building block for PETN. To make PETN, Pentaerythritol must be mixed with concentrated nitric and sulfuric acids. It is assumed that these acids were in the syringe that the knicker bomber was attempting to inject, under the cover of a blanket, into his underpants. He then attempted to ignite the newly prepared PETN with some kind of a fuse. He was apparently unaware that PETN requires a shock wave rather than heat or flame to detonate, and a shock wave is best provided by an initiator explosive. In short, the whole enterprise was doomed to failure from the beginning. Basically, Rhino, you're full of shit. But that's ok- you're a sheep. Your behavior is expected. Baaah... Baaah.... Getting tired of the bozoed calcon following me around on the 'net, wanting to discuss "tossing salad." Sorry, you sick rump-ranger. NOT interested.
Since 9-11 there has only been one attempted terrorist attack, the shoe bomber You forgot about the underwear bomber who failed to blow up a plane over Detroit, the guy who shot up Fort Hood, and the guy with a car bomb in Manhattan.
This type of scanner can find a non metal bomb taped to a persons body in a way that a metal detector can't. It won't find anything stuck up your rectum or vagina. The TSA is completely reactive. Someone puts a bomb in their shoe, so now we have to take our shoes off. Someone puts a bomb in their underwear, so now have to submit to x-ray scanners or groping. Eventually, some will shove a bomb up their rear end. Are you willing to submit yourself, your wife and daughter to a full body cavity search every time you board an airplane??? That's coming next.
Who's crouch were they found in? Not just there. Seriously, TSA should be SHOWING what they are confiscating DAILY at each and every airport. If they did, you wouldn't hear a SINGLE WORD complaining about these searches and scans. It would scare the hell out of you.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
The TSA has already turned our airports into nightmares. Now they are turning them into prisons. If you think the TSA's incompetence is actually making us more secure, you need to put the crack pipe down and join reality. jw, I am in this 'reality' by trade. The number of knives and GUNS confiscated DAILY is staggering. Then the number of stun guns...mace/pepper sprays...ceramic blades of all shapes and sizes...cane swords... If you SAW what was confiscated, you wouldn't be up in arms over whats being done, you'd demand it, or you wouldn't dream of flying commercial. And lose the 'crack pipe' stuff, and the bullshit related to 'reality' on this topic. I either know a helluva lot more than you on this particular topic, or you just want to be a dumbass. one or the other.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
Yep...deep in your brain pan...lmao
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
No, I would demand the same thing that I am demanding not -- that the TSA be disbanded and that airline security be turned over to the airlines. The fails at everything is does. This is no exception. The TSA is running the airports exactly like the communists ran their countries, long lines and all.
TSA should have this broadcast every single day. Then passengers would understand whats actually happening at the nation's airports DAILY. Since 9/11, how many terrorists have been caught by TSA? Numbers and details, please. This isn't about 'terrorists' its about WEAPONS on commercial aircraft. And THATS MEASURE in the thousands DAILY across the country.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
Average 'delay' is about ten minutes in those 'long lines' jw. Again, if you saw the piles of weapons each day, you wouldn't be posting this stuff. That said, I don't fly these days much. Couple of times per year. If its a 12 hour drive or less from here, I drive.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
With wackjobs trying to blow up planes or fly them into buildings, is it any wonder that sane Americans want to arm themselves? Why is government trying to make it easier for terrorists?
While I think there are things that could be done better, I don't understand how the government is 'making it easier for terrorists' here, hondo68. Can you amplify?
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
They're trying to disarm the victims, and make it much more difficult for them to protect themselves or others. They're enabling the terrorists, by making them safe from passengers and crew. Like "gun free" cities, crime is sure to increase. More guns = Less crime Simple really.
You haven't been allowed to bring a weapon onboard commercial aircraft as a private citizen for decades. That said, I understand what you are saying. Bottom line is you have a clear choice. You choose to fly commercial, you go by the prevailing rules associated. Or you don't fly. Its pretty simple.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
And THATS MEASURE in the thousands DAILY across the country. Interesting take. OTOH, since TSA hasn't stopped a single terrorist, your point is moot. Ironic- every terrorist that has been stopped, was stopped by the passengers on the aircraft. Were they allowed to have some reasonable arms- pocket-knives, for example- they'd be far better equipped to deal with terrorists than the TSA. After 9/11, everyone understands that you can't surrender to a nut-job. You have to take him down, by whatever means necessary. YOU espouse the viewpoint that we should sacrifice our liberties, our RIGHTS, to obtain temporary safety. To that, my reply is a quote: Getting tired of the bozoed calcon following me around on the 'net, wanting to discuss "tossing salad." Sorry, you sick rump-ranger. NOT interested.
You may recall the fad of hijacking airliners to Cuba, decades ago. This was brought to a halt by armed passengers. The government didn't like that, so now we have the disarmament policy. Armed passengers were effective, and TSA disarmament resulted in 911. Which should we use?
This isn't about 'terrorists' its about WEAPONS on commercial aircraft. And THATS MEASURE in the thousands DAILY across the country. Interesting take. OTOH, since TSA hasn't stopped a single terrorist, your point is moot. YOU espouse the viewpoint that we should sacrifice our liberties, our RIGHTS, to obtain temporary safety. To that, my reply is a quote: 'Interesting take'? And sorry, given the piles of weapons confiscated DAILY, its hardly 'moot'. Flying commercial isn't a 'right'. Its a service you buy. Same for our 'liberties' associated with this topic. Both are...'moot' in this conversation. Fact remains TSA confiscates large amounts of weapons each and every day, at every major airport in the United States. Piles of them. I like my odds dealing with anyone unarmed.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
You haven't been allowed to bring a weapon onboard commercial aircraft as a private citizen for decades. You may recall the fad of hijacking airliners to Cuba, decades ago. This was brought to a halt by armed passengers. The government didn't like that, so now we have the disarmament policy. By armed passengers? I don't recall that. The solution here is very easy for those so upset by scanning and pat downs, etc etc etc. Don't purchase the SERVICE.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
No, we have another choice -- civil disobedience and other political action to get rid of the rotten TSA.
Armed flight crews. That is one of the answers to terrorism.
sadly I agree with badeye, as a frequent flyer i'm much happier with the way things are now, all hassles included, then the way they were pre-9/11.
Knock yourself out....(laughing)
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
Actually, it isn't. Couple of problems with the concept. First, they aren't trained to deal with a hostage situation, which is what they would deal with....if they opened the cockpit door in such a scenario, which they WOULD NOT DO. Second...guess what the 'backdrop' is for the pilot/shooter? Thats right, sports fans...rows 1 - 60. Yep, lets let a baby take a 9 mm in the head..maybe that old lady sitting right behind. NOt to mention decompression from the stray round - and THERE WILL BE A STRAY ROUND. Or four...or ten. We already KNOW how to deal with a terrorist on a plane. Flgith 93 showed us all that. They just waited to long, in 20/20 hindsight.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
I don't like it any more than anyone else does. But this is the world we live in, denying it is simply insane. What KILLS ME on this topic is some think this is based on my POLITICS. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
First, they aren't trained to deal with a hostage situation Then train them. Second...guess what the 'backdrop' is for the pilot/shooter? Yep, lets let a baby take a 9 mm in the head... Are you a New Yorker??? Real conservatives understand that criminals are deterred from committing the crime in the first place if they think their victims might be armed. Air Marshalls have the same 'backdrop'. Oh, but it's okay for government bureaucrats to shoot a baby in the head, but not a pilot. Got it. Again, Ben Franklin had it right -- people who trade liberty for security deserve neither.
Then train them. Oh good lord. Do you have any IDEA the criteria for this type of training? How few actually make it through the training to be certified to deal with such scenario's? When, exactly, are AIRLINE PILOTS - overworked as reported this past weekend - supposed to find the time>? and if they don't pass this type of training, what do you want to do, GROUND THEM? Sheesh. I'm a conservative. I'm also in the security industry. Being a conservative doesn't mean I ignore my training, or my real world experiences. You have a choice, jw. You do not have to fly. As I noted, if its a driving distance of 12 hours or less, I drive these days. More because of the costs associated with flying - $120 per bag round trip, not me - but to each their own.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
Yes, and also armed security in the passenger section, hired by the airlines. I'm not positive that any passengers helped, but they were available if needed. As you said, the deterrent effect itself is helpful. Evil doers are wondering who's armed. The fact that granny wasn't shot in the head, is testament to the good sense and caution of the passengers carrying firearms.
Sorry I wasn't clear, but I was referring to people who got past American airport screening. Wasn't the underwear bomber flying form a foreign destination? There have been more attacks than that. The anthrax, the DC sniper, and I believe a couple more. I'm not sold on the necessity or effectiveness of this security, but there is some reasoning behind it. I'd rather just risk it, but last time there was a major attack the people accepted all sorts of unconstitutional bullshit. If another one happens will get Patriot Act II without a doubt.
The TSA is completely reactive. Someone puts a bomb in their shoe, so now we have to take our shoes off. Someone puts a bomb in their underwear, so now have to submit to x-ray scanners or groping. Eventually, some will shove a bomb up their rear end. Are you willing to submit yourself, your wife and daughter to a full body cavity search every time you board an airplane??? That's coming next. I'm not sure if being reactive is so bad. Responding to weaknesses is a good thing. There just really isn't a good option here. There needs to be some security, but as you correctly displayed, there is a point that is too far. As a country we need to decide what risk we are willing to take.
You are SO full of shit. Everything in you list would be found by a metal detector, except the ceramic blades. And ceramic blades are useless now. Security is your business, huh? A fucking SHOESTRING on board EVERY SINGLE COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT is a deadly weapon (spelled garrote), as is the detachable carrying strap off of a laptop bag. A pencil is a deadly weapon. A pen. A set of car keys. You, badeye, are one bullshitting son of a gun.
(sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what.
He isn't known on the Internet as Badlies for nothing.
The number of knives and GUNS confiscated DAILY is staggering. Then the number of stun guns...mace/pepper sprays...ceramic blades of all shapes and sizes...cane swords... You are SO full of shit. Everything in you list would be found by a metal detector, except the ceramic blades. And ceramic blades are useless now. DUH, dumbass. You think this ridiculous 'sun rises in the east' observation renders the FACT that literally dozens upon dozens of weapons are confiscated DAILY irrelevant? Yes, security has been my career for the past four decades. There is no 'bullshit' in the post you are ranting about. Those piles of weapons occur daily, its not disputable. Which of course is why TSA does what it does. Now that I've rebutted your nonsensical rant... I watched what is being done physically via a couple of different news outlets last night to those choosing not to go through the scanner. It is highly intrusive. Its no different than a search of a subject being arrested. Which is why I'll go through the scanner. No big deal here. We live in an era when 'underwear bombing' has been attempted and the only reason it didn't work was the incompetence of the bomber. I wish this wasn't the case, but it is.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
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"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#2. To: jwpegler (#0)
#3. To: Badeye (#2)
"You should see the HUGE PILE of weapons confiscated each and every day at the nation's major airports".
#4. To: Badeye (#2)
(Edited)
You should see the HUGE PILE of weapons confiscated each and every day at the nation's major airports.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#5. To: Badeye (#2)
#6. To: Badeye (#2)
TSA should have this broadcast every single day. Then passengers would understand whats actually happening at the nation's airports DAILY.
#7. To: Capitalist Eric (#6)
#8. To: jwpegler (#0)
Barrack Hussein Obama
President of the United States of America said that some Americans ; "They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."
#9. To: Capitalist Eric (#6)
Since 9/11, how many terrorists have been caught by TSA?
#10. To: Rhino (#9)
this type of scanner is trying to prevent exactly that type of attack. Reid's bomb didn't have metal. If he didn't let his shoes get wet he would have downed that aircraft.
British Member of Parliament Ben Wallace, who worked for a firm that produces body scanners, says the machines can miss low-density objects like powders, and might not have caught the underwear bomber, who was carrying the explosive powder PETN. Nor are the machines likely to reveal explosives hidden in body cavities—which was the modus operandi of an al Qaida bomber in Saudi Arabia last year who hid a pound of high explosives in his rectum. “The device does not locate well-concealed items in body parts and cavities,” says Michael German of the American Civil Liberties Union. “It’s asking a lot of people to sacrifice their privacy for technology that’s not effective.”
Both shoe and knicker bomber attempted to use PETN (a military explosive) on their respective flights. As a result, our shoes now go through scanners at airports and I can only presume that more invasive scanning of our lower torsos will also be mandated supposedly in an effort to prevent further knicker attacks. The problem, however, is this:
#11. To: Rhino (#9)
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#12. To: Rhino (#9)
(Edited)
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#13. To: Murron (#3)
You should see the HUGE PILE of weapons confiscated each and every day at the nation's major airports".
#14. To: jwpegler (#4)
Lady Gillettes and toothbrushes?
#15. To: Boofer T And The Humvees (#5)
#16. To: Badeye (#14)
If you SAW what was confiscated, you wouldn't be up in arms over whats being done, you'd demand it
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#17. To: Capitalist Eric (#6)
#18. To: jwpegler (#16)
#19. To: Badeye (#14)
The number of knives and GUNS confiscated DAILY is staggering
#20. To: hondo68 (#19)
Why is government trying to make it easier for terrorists?
#21. To: Badeye (#20)
I don't understand how the government is 'making it easier for terrorists'
#22. To: hondo68 (#21)
They're trying to disarm the victims,
#23. To: Badeye (#17)
This isn't about 'terrorists' its about WEAPONS on commercial aircraft.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamen Franklin--
#24. To: Badeye (#22)
(Edited)
You haven't been allowed to bring a weapon onboard commercial aircraft as a private citizen for decades.
#25. To: Capitalist Eric (#23)
#26. To: hondo68 (#24)
#27. To: Badeye (#22)
Bottom line is you have a clear choice. You choose to fly commercial, you go by the prevailing rules associated.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#28. To: Badeye (#26)
By armed passengers? I don't recall that.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#29. To: jwpegler (#27)
No, we have another choice -- civil disobedience and other political action to get rid of the rotten TSA.
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#30. To: jwpegler (#27)
No, we have another choice -- civil disobedience
#31. To: jwpegler (#28)
Armed flight crews. That is one of the answers to terrorism.
#32. To: go65 (#29)
sadly I agree with badeye, as a frequent flyer i'm much happier with the way things are now, all hassles included, then the way they were pre-9/11.
#33. To: Badeye (#31)
(Edited)
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#34. To: jwpegler (#33)
First, they aren't trained to deal with a hostage situation
#35. To: jwpegler (#28)
(Edited)
Armed flight crews. That is one of the answers to terrorism.
#36. To: jwpegler (#11)
You forgot about the underwear bomber who failed to blow up a plane over Detroit, the guy who shot up Fort Hood, and the guy with a car bomb in Manhattan.
#37. To: jwpegler (#12)
It won't find anything stuck up your rectum or vagina.
#38. To: Badeye (#14)
The number of knives and GUNS confiscated DAILY is staggering. Then the number of stun guns...mace/pepper sprays...ceramic blades of all shapes and sizes...cane swords...
#39. To: Wood_Chopper (#38)
You are SO full of shit
#40. To: Wood_Chopper (#38)
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