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Source: [None] URL Source: http://libertysflame.org Published: Nov 12, 2010 Author: Me Post Date: 2010-11-12 19:40:56 by Skip Intro Keywords: None Views: 72328 Comments: 74 There has been talk on other sites (hint: Goldi-Lox and LP) about the desirability of Marco Rubio running for president. Since these sites are also by and large "birther" sites, I want to know if Rubio is considered a "natural born citizen" and if so, why. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 61. #1. To: Skip Intro (#0) (Edited) If he was born in the US, and his parents had become US citizens and renounced allegiance to Cuba by the time of his birth, he's natural born. He needs to show his parents citizenship papers, and his long form birth certificate. All that's needed to prove hObama ineligible is a long form birth certificate from ANYWHERE showing that his father is Barack Obama. We already know that he was a British subject, that never became a US citizen. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-12   19:59:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: hondo68 (#1) If he was born in the US, and his parents had become US citizens and renounced allegiance to Cuba by the time of his birth, he's natural born. If he was born in the U.S., he is a citizen. PERIOD. It has nothing to do with his parents. jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   12:27:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: jwpegler (#29) (Edited) If he was born in the U.S., he is a citizen. Ah, but the question is NOT if he's a US citizen. To be president you've got to be "a natural born US citizen". Thus the parents enter the picture. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   13:24:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: hondo68 (#30) To be president you've got to be "a natural born US citizen". Thus the parents enter the picture. No. If you born in the U.S. you are a natural born citizen. PERIOD. This is one reason people so outraged about illegal immigration. Mexican women cross the border illegally, have a baby in the U.S., and that baby is a U.S. citizen. Rubio was born in Miami, Florida so he is a natural born citizen. He is eligible to run for President. jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   14:32:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: jwpegler (#31) (Edited) The Constitution reads "natural born citizen" for a reason. If they wanted to include all citizens they would have left out "natural born". They did not want the president to have any foreign allegiances, so no dual citizens like Obama and Rubio. (If in fact his parents had not renounced their Cuban citizenship by the time of his birth) If immigrants want their kids to be president they need to swear allegiance to the USA, before they have a child. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   18:06:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: hondo68 (#32) Huh??? What gives you the idea that Rubio is a dual citizen? Natural born means a person was born inside the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of ambassadors or other foreign diplomats). PERIOD. The other type of citizen is a naturalized citizen -- someone who wasn't born here, but became a citizen by choice. They cannot become President. jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   18:26:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: jwpegler, hondo68 (#33) Natural born means a person was born inside the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of ambassadors or other foreign diplomats). PERIOD. The other type of citizen is a naturalized citizen -- someone who wasn't born here, but became a citizen by choice. They cannot become President. Incorrect jwpegler. The 14th amendment (which today has been bastardized) was nowhere in sight when the Constitution was written by the Founders. Using modern day terminology as you have, I could claim someone born via c-section was not "natural born". You have to look at what the meaning of words were when the Constitution was written. "Gay" today means something totally different than when the Constitution was penned. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   22:59:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: Wood_Chopper (#40) (Edited) Incorrect jwpegler. The 14th amendment (which today has been bastardized) was nowhere in sight when the Constitution was written by the Founders. Using modern day terminology as you have, I could claim someone born via c-section was not "natural born". You have to look at what the meaning of words were when the Constitution was written. "Gay" today means something totally different than when the Constitution was penned. You don't look toward the original intent when there has been an amendment that affects that issue. The constitution isn't the bible, it's a changing document. Amendments are just as valid as any part of the whole. Natural born means the same thing it did in 1789. That you were born a citizen. The 14th amendment changed who was born a citizen. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:02:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: Rhino (#42) The 14th amendment changed who was born a citizen. Correct. But it did not change who was a "natural born" citizen, it only changed who was a "citizen". I see nowhere in the 14th that "natuarl born" is mentioned, nor do I see a change in the defintion of "natual born citizen" therein. In the days of the Founders, "natural born citizen" and "citizen" were different, or they would not have included "natural born" in the requirements for President, they would have just said "citizen". Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:15:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: Wood_Chopper (#48) Correct. But it did not change who was a "natural born" citizen, it only changed who was a "citizen". I see nowhere in the 14th that "natuarl born" is mentioned, nor do I see a change in the defintion of "natual born citizen" therein. In the days of the Founders, "natural born citizen" and "citizen" were different, or they would not have included "natural born" in the requirements for President, they would have just said "citizen". Natural born citizen means exactly what it appears to. It means you were born a citizen. A citizen is either a natural born citizen or is a naturalized citizen. The founders were looking for people who were citizens from birth rather than than people who became citizens. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:20:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: Rhino (#49) (Edited) The founders were looking for people who were citizens from birth That's just plain wrong. They also wanted no foreign allegiances by birth. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   23:26:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: hondo68 (#51) That's just plain wrong. They also wanted no foreign allegiances by birth. Yet it didn't ban dual citizenship. Your interpretation sounds unlikely. Also plenty of American's get dual citizenship and have children. Under your definition they'd be natural born, yet have the same allegiance issues. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:30:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: Rhino (#54) Yet it didn't ban dual citizenship. Dual citizenship is illegal in the U.S. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:33:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: Wood_Chopper (#55) Dual citizenship is illegal in the U.S. LOL no it isn't. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:54:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: Rhino (#56) Dual citizenship is illegal in the U.S. LOL no it isn't. Yeah, it is. Other countries bestow it upon U.S. citizens, but it is not recognized by the U.S. Try naturalizing to a U.S. citizen without first renouncing any other citizenship and see how far you get. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:59:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: Wood_Chopper (#57) Yeah, it is. Other countries bestow it upon U.S. citizens, but it is not recognized by the U.S. Try naturalizing to a U.S. citizen without first renouncing any other citizenship and see how far you get. It's true that the US ignores dual citizenship, but that is far from it being illegal. There are likely hundreds of thousands of dual citizen Americans. In fact the US Supreme court has ruled that dual citizenship doesn't mean renunciation of the US citizenship. Schneider v. Rusk, 377 U.S. 163 (1964). And there isn't a renunciation requirement for naturalization. You guys realize that law isn't some shit you can just speculate about right? Rhino  posted on  2010-11-14   0:06:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: Rhino (#58) (Edited) And there isn't a renunciation requirement for naturalization. You're so full of shit: Oath "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God." You do see that word "renounce" in the oath don't you? I hope you're not representative of the youth in this country. But you probably are. Which is why this country is in the shape it is in. Fuck you. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-14   0:30:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 61. #62. To: Wood_Chopper (#61) "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God." You do see that word "renounce" in the oath don't you? I hope you're not representative of the youth in this country. But you probably are. Which is why this country is in the shape it is in. Fuck you. Allegiance isn't citizenship. Settle down old man. That SCOTUS case I just cited proves it. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-14 00:44:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 61. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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