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Source: [None] URL Source: http://libertysflame.org Published: Nov 12, 2010 Author: Me Post Date: 2010-11-12 19:40:56 by Skip Intro Keywords: None Views: 72332 Comments: 74 There has been talk on other sites (hint: Goldi-Lox and LP) about the desirability of Marco Rubio running for president. Since these sites are also by and large "birther" sites, I want to know if Rubio is considered a "natural born citizen" and if so, why. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-31) not displayed.       .       .       . #32. To: jwpegler (#31) (Edited) The Constitution reads "natural born citizen" for a reason. If they wanted to include all citizens they would have left out "natural born". They did not want the president to have any foreign allegiances, so no dual citizens like Obama and Rubio. (If in fact his parents had not renounced their Cuban citizenship by the time of his birth) If immigrants want their kids to be president they need to swear allegiance to the USA, before they have a child. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   18:06:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: hondo68 (#32) Huh??? What gives you the idea that Rubio is a dual citizen? Natural born means a person was born inside the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of ambassadors or other foreign diplomats). PERIOD. The other type of citizen is a naturalized citizen -- someone who wasn't born here, but became a citizen by choice. They cannot become President. "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   18:26:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: hondo68 (#3) subject to the jurisdiction thereof The only people living in the U.S. who are not subject to our laws are people who have diplomatic immunity. Rubio's dad was a Cuban exile, not a Cuban diplomat. "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-13   18:36:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: jwpegler (#34) (Edited) Rubio's dad was a Cuban exile, not a Cuban diplomat. None of the above. He left Cuba before the revolution and Castro. He was an immigrant, not an exile/refugee. AFAIK he was a REAL immigrant, and NOT an illegal alien. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   18:46:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: hondo68 (#35) None of the above. He left Cuba before the revolution and Castro. He was an immigrant, not an exile/refugee. AFAIK he was a REAL immigrant, and NOT an illegal alien. Legal or illegal, it doesn't matter. For better or worse, children of illegal immigrants are US citizens, unless the Federal government gives up jurisdiction over illegal immigrants. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   22:31:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: Rhino (#36) For better or worse, children of illegal immigrants are US citizens I don't believe that his parents were illegal aliens, but they may not have completed naturalization at the time of Marco's birth. US citizen yes, natural born maybe not. Just being born in the US doesn't make one a natural born citizen. We need the naturalization dates of the parents to know that. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   22:49:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: hondo68 (#37) I don't believe that his parents were illegal aliens, but they may not have completed naturalization at the time of Marco's birth. US citizen yes, natural born maybe not. Just being born in the US doesn't make one a natural born citizen. We need the naturalization dates of the parents to know that. Natural born citizen means born a citizen. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   22:51:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: Rhino (#38) Natural born citizen means born a citizen .... in the USA, of parents who are US citizens. Finished it for ya. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   22:58:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: jwpegler, hondo68 (#33) Natural born means a person was born inside the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of ambassadors or other foreign diplomats). PERIOD. The other type of citizen is a naturalized citizen -- someone who wasn't born here, but became a citizen by choice. They cannot become President. Incorrect jwpegler. The 14th amendment (which today has been bastardized) was nowhere in sight when the Constitution was written by the Founders. Using modern day terminology as you have, I could claim someone born via c-section was not "natural born". You have to look at what the meaning of words were when the Constitution was written. "Gay" today means something totally different than when the Constitution was penned. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   22:59:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: hondo68 (#39) .... in the USA, of parents who are US citizens. Finished it for ya. There isn't a law or court case that says this. And before you show me Wong Ark Kim, give me a pinpoint citation. Because I read the case in the entirety and it doesn't even mention natural born in the majority opinion. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:00:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: Wood_Chopper (#40) (Edited) Incorrect jwpegler. The 14th amendment (which today has been bastardized) was nowhere in sight when the Constitution was written by the Founders. Using modern day terminology as you have, I could claim someone born via c-section was not "natural born". You have to look at what the meaning of words were when the Constitution was written. "Gay" today means something totally different than when the Constitution was penned. You don't look toward the original intent when there has been an amendment that affects that issue. The constitution isn't the bible, it's a changing document. Amendments are just as valid as any part of the whole. Natural born means the same thing it did in 1789. That you were born a citizen. The 14th amendment changed who was born a citizen. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:02:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Rhino (#41) You are familiar with Jus soli and jus sanguinis, right? (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:04:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: Rhino (#42) You're wrong on this. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:05:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: Rhino (#41) give me a pinpoint citation. There are many cases to study for precedence, far too many to list here. Please use the link to obamafiles in my post #13. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   23:06:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: Wood_Chopper (#43) You are familiar with Jus soli and jus sanguinis, right? Since the 14th amendment the United States has had both. Actually the Civil Rights of 1866 installed Jur Soli. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:11:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: hondo68 (#45) (Edited) There are many cases to study for precedence, far too many to list here. Please use the link to obamafiles in my post #13. So give me one. I've skimmed those cases. Not one defines natural born citizen in the majority opinion. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:12:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: Rhino (#42) The 14th amendment changed who was born a citizen. Correct. But it did not change who was a "natural born" citizen, it only changed who was a "citizen". I see nowhere in the 14th that "natuarl born" is mentioned, nor do I see a change in the defintion of "natual born citizen" therein. In the days of the Founders, "natural born citizen" and "citizen" were different, or they would not have included "natural born" in the requirements for President, they would have just said "citizen". (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:15:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: Wood_Chopper (#48) Correct. But it did not change who was a "natural born" citizen, it only changed who was a "citizen". I see nowhere in the 14th that "natuarl born" is mentioned, nor do I see a change in the defintion of "natual born citizen" therein. In the days of the Founders, "natural born citizen" and "citizen" were different, or they would not have included "natural born" in the requirements for President, they would have just said "citizen". Natural born citizen means exactly what it appears to. It means you were born a citizen. A citizen is either a natural born citizen or is a naturalized citizen. The founders were looking for people who were citizens from birth rather than than people who became citizens. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:20:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: Rhino (#49) You do understand that people born in foreign countries can be a "citizen" of the U.S without naturalization, don't you? (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:24:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: Rhino (#49) (Edited) The founders were looking for people who were citizens from birth That's just plain wrong. They also wanted no foreign allegiances by birth. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-13   23:26:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: Rhino (#49) A citizen is either a natural born citizen or is a naturalized citizen. Wrong. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:26:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: hondo68 (#51) That's just plain wrong. They also wanted no foreign allegiances. Correct. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:27:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: hondo68 (#51) That's just plain wrong. They also wanted no foreign allegiances by birth. Yet it didn't ban dual citizenship. Your interpretation sounds unlikely. Also plenty of American's get dual citizenship and have children. Under your definition they'd be natural born, yet have the same allegiance issues. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:30:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: Rhino (#54) Yet it didn't ban dual citizenship. Dual citizenship is illegal in the U.S. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:33:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: Wood_Chopper (#55) Dual citizenship is illegal in the U.S. LOL no it isn't. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-13   23:54:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: Rhino (#56) Dual citizenship is illegal in the U.S. LOL no it isn't. Yeah, it is. Other countries bestow it upon U.S. citizens, but it is not recognized by the U.S. Try naturalizing to a U.S. citizen without first renouncing any other citizenship and see how far you get. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-13   23:59:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: Wood_Chopper (#57) Yeah, it is. Other countries bestow it upon U.S. citizens, but it is not recognized by the U.S. Try naturalizing to a U.S. citizen without first renouncing any other citizenship and see how far you get. It's true that the US ignores dual citizenship, but that is far from it being illegal. There are likely hundreds of thousands of dual citizen Americans. In fact the US Supreme court has ruled that dual citizenship doesn't mean renunciation of the US citizenship. Schneider v. Rusk, 377 U.S. 163 (1964). And there isn't a renunciation requirement for naturalization. You guys realize that law isn't some shit you can just speculate about right? Rhino  posted on  2010-11-14   0:06:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #59. To: Rhino (#58) law isn't some shit you can just speculate about right? Lawyers and judges do it all the time. Haven't you ever been to court? Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-14   0:15:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: hondo68 (#59) Lawyers and judges do it all the time. Haven't you ever been to court? Well you certainly got me there. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-14   0:19:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: Rhino (#58) (Edited) And there isn't a renunciation requirement for naturalization. You're so full of shit: Oath "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God." You do see that word "renounce" in the oath don't you? I hope you're not representative of the youth in this country. But you probably are. Which is why this country is in the shape it is in. Fuck you. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-14   0:30:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #62. To: Wood_Chopper (#61) "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God." You do see that word "renounce" in the oath don't you? I hope you're not representative of the youth in this country. But you probably are. Which is why this country is in the shape it is in. Fuck you. Allegiance isn't citizenship. Settle down old man. That SCOTUS case I just cited proves it. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-14   0:44:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #63. To: Rhino (#62) (Edited) Allegiance isn't citizenship. Fuck you. renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen Fuck you. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-14   0:49:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #64. To: Wood_Chopper (#63) Allegiance isn't citizenship. Fuck you. renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen Fuck you. Notice how it uses allegiance and citizen but not interchangeably. That means they aren't the same thing. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-14   1:06:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #65. To: Rhino (#64) If you are too fucking stupid to understand the definition of "heretofore", I can't help you. I will soon be dead. My only regret is that my children and grandchildren will have to battle brain-dead morons like you to preserve their freedoms. You, are an idiot. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-14   1:21:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #66. To: Wood_Chopper (#65) (Edited) Before, or up til now. I'd wager I'm smarter than whatever scum slid down your daughter's leg. Rhino  posted on  2010-11-14   1:47:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: Rhino (#66) I'd wager I'm smarter than whatever scum slid down your daughter's leg. You've got a lot of class, Rhino. All of it third. You're a moron Rhino. You are, in a nutshell, a prime example of why this country is in the shape it is in. My only purpose here is to expose you, and those like you, for others to see. You've done your part to prove you are a complete imbecile, I've done my part to expose you, now let's see if others here do their part to recognize it. (sneakypete)DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Mad Dog's reply) I don't know or F ing care. Pete, MD doesn't know or care what Palin says or writes, he'll support her no matter what. Wood_Chopper  posted on  2010-11-14   2:01:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #68. To: Wood_Chopper (#40) The 14th Amendment is part of the Constitution. PERIOD. If you don't like, try to repeal. Right now, it's the law of the land. PERIOD. "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson jwpegler  posted on  2010-11-14   9:57:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #69. To: jwpegler, Wood_Chopper (#68) (Edited) The 14th Amendment is part of the Constitution. PERIOD As WC so correctly pointed out "natural born" is not addressed in the 14th amendment, so that amendment has NOTHING to do with Rubio or Obama's eligibility to be president. The purpose or the 14th was to grant ex-slaves citizenship, not make them natural born citizens. Your misinterpretation of the 14th to permit citizen anchor babies, is a topic for another thread. You could start a 14th amendment/anchor baby, thread for that? Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-14   10:04:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #70. To: hondo68 (#69) Right your. There are all types of citizens. Their are those that were born in hospitals and those that were born in the back of a cab. Its silly to think that those are the same. Then their are those that were born on dark Indian Ocean nights. Those are you're Bengals fans of which aint nothing natral. Boofer T And The Humvees  posted on  2010-11-14   12:46:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #71. To: Boofer T And The Humvees, A K A Stone (#70) Right your. There are all types of citizens. Their are those that were born in hospitals and those that were born in the back of a cab. Its silly to think that those are the same. Then their are those that were born on dark Indian Ocean nights. Those are you're Bengals fans of which aint nothing natral. Hello, war. Back again, misspellings and all, see. What is this? Your fourth of fifth re-tread? Well, [war's] got to do something for attention, his multiple personalities aren't speaking to him any more, and his imaginary friends keep finding excuses not to come over. (Murron) Rudgear  posted on  2010-11-14   13:46:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #72. To: Rudgear (#71) (Edited) Hello, war. Back again, misspellings and all It's an inbred spandex wearing NYC cracka, so ignorance is as natural as water rolling off of a ducks back. Hondo68  posted on  2010-11-14   13:56:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (73 - 74) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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