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Title: LaHood to GOP governors: No trains, no money
Source:
AP
URL Source: http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/106988093.html
Published: Nov 11, 2010
Author: Joan Lowy
Post Date: 2010-11-11 09:45:46 by go65
Keywords: None
Views: 18636
Comments: 38
WASHINGTON - The Obama administration has a message for Republican governors who campaigned against the president's high-speed rail program: Build the trains or give back the money. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood on Tuesday rejected a request from Gov.-elect John Kasich in Ohio to use the $400 million in federal funds pledged to that state's train project on other projects like road construction or freight lines. "I would like high-speed rail to be part of Ohio's future," LaHood wrote. But if the state won't go forward, it's necessary "to wind down Ohio's involvement in the project so that we do not waste taxpayers' money," he said. A day earlier LaHood sent the same message to Wisconsin officials about the $810 million in rail money pledged to that state. Wisconsin Gov.-elect Scott Walker campaigned against the Madison-to- Milwaukee line, including creating a website opposed to the project. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which allocated an initial $8 billion for a high-speed rail program, doesn't allow the money to be spend for other purposes, said Ross Capon, executive director of the National Association of Railroad Passengers. The Republican governor-elects have criticized the high-speed rail program as unaffordable in tough economic times. Both states would have to invest considerable dollars in the projects in addition to federal aid. Walker on Tuesday urged the federal government to give up on high-speed rail and instead use the money to repair roads and bridges he said were "literally crumbling." Kasich has said that the top speed of 79 miles per hour on the proposed Ohio project is too slow and he has questioned whether enough people will ride it. About 6 million people live along the Cleveland to Cincinnati corridor, making it one of the most heavily populated corridors without rail service in the Midwest — but a well-used interstate, I-71, lies along the same route.
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#1. To: go65 (#0)
And given the average speed I've witnessed my entire life on I-71 between Cincy and Cleveland, Kasich is 100% correct. We in Ohio do not need this. I will note the speeds going TO Cleveland are slower than those LEAVING Cleveland....(chuckle)
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
When nobody has a job and no one can even afford a Government Motors golf cart they'll have to ride on something. And since we all sold out our nation's economic future for it we'll get to ride for free, right? Except the federalized subsidized union parasites that build it and the GM golf carts, they'll be happy to redistribute some of their (formally our) wealth by paying for their tickets, right?
The left has had a train fetish since one of their 20th century heroes -- Benito Mussolini -- allegedly "made the trains run on time". These people never change.
I ride the Acela from D.C. to NY about half a dozen times per year, it is far more convenient then flying, but it still takes longer. It pains me to see that our country is so far behind Europe/Asia when it comes to passenger rail, especially given what we spend to subsidize auto/air travel.
No complaints from my end - we're better off using the money to upgrade the NE corridor so our highest speed train from D.C. to Boston doesn't take 5-6 hours.
Why is that important?
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
Correct: We do not need high speed trains. We need only trains doing 75 mph. On existing track. Looking forward to it. Trains or mules. U pic 'em. Or both. Mules to trains. Then trains to mules. Very economical. Very speedy. And a bonus. Uses lots of people. Not so much Hydrocarbons. 8D See the Santa Fe Chief, the KCS Southern Belle for details.
Speaking of committees and oversight, when Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke testified under oath to Congress in July, he said in no uncertain words, "the Federal Reserve will not monetize the [federal] debt". [1]. Fast forward to the day after mid-term elections, in which the American people clearly voted for LESS spending/printing, and the Fed announces its plan to monetize $900 billion in treasury bonds. [1]. The Chairman has proven his previous testimony before Congress to be a blatant lie, but instead of condemning the Fed's recent actions, the federal government has welcomed it with open arms. That's quite some oversight we have there. Perhaps the best way to oversee the Fed's actions would be to actually figure out what in Lloyd Blankfein's name it's been doing.
The left has had a train fetish since one of their 20th century heroes -- Benito Mussolini -- allegedly "made the trains run on time". These people never change. And those leftist Japanese have had a high speed bullet train since the 1960's. Go figure.
Go figure. Yes, and Japan's commuter rail and high speed rail are owned by 16 major private companies as well as some smaller companies and a few public-private partnerships. This is not what the left has in mind in the U.S. They want the government to own and control passenger rail. The fact is that we have a very physical environment than Japan. They cram 130 million people into area smaller than Montana. 25% of those people live in metro Tokyo. Sure, they can have high speed rail between cities because the distance between their cities isn't that great. Sure they can have commuter rail within the cities because most people live in very densely populated cities in high rise apartments, not in single family suburban homes like the U.S. I've been to Japan 20+ times. You can't compare the two at all. You say you live in Japan, so you should know this.
You really ought to read up a bit more on the details of the various high speed rail projects. You are way off here.
because creating a true high-speed rail corridor in the North East will reduce the need to support road/air subsidies and reduce CO2 pollution.
Federal Railroad Administration "vision" for high speed rail in the U.S. This is a government plan and it's heavily targeted at the northeast. Why do we need a Buffalo-Albany high speed rail? Does anyone still live in Buffalo? Why wouldn't you hook up Dallas and Houston? Where is the High Tech Corridor rail between Seattle and Silicon Valley (Alaska Airlines runs one flight an hour between the two locations, so there diffidently is a need). This is a typical government plan, driven by politics, not need. That's why it will fail.
Which makes sense Good question. Outside of the NE corridor and perhaps extending it down to Miami and west to Chicago, i'm not sure there are other places in the U.S. that justify the investment.
Why? The Dims didn't assume the responsibility when they took charge in '06. And when are they going to accept responsibility for the housing collapse they started which caused the Great Democratic Depression?
Can't wait to see the response!
So I'm suppose to pay for people to ride between Buffalo and Albany? Why? How does that benefit me, my family, my business and my community? It doesn't. It's ridiculous.
Couldn't you say the same thing about paying so that people can fly or drive between Buffalo and Albany? Why do folks expect rail to be self-sufficient but see no problem with using tax dollars to subsidize air and roads?
Why is that important? because creating a true high-speed rail corridor in the North East will reduce the need to support road/air subsidies and reduce CO2 pollution. Better to use one of the 'net meeting' software programs then. No additional traffic anywhere, and ZERO pollution. btw, only a kook thinks CO2 is 'pollution'.
Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.
The major company, Japan Railways, used to be state owned before being privatized and regionalized in 1987. The shinkansen (bullet train) was developed long before that, starting back in the 1960's, so clearly the Japanese government was indeed involved in its development. I also believe that these private companies may receive subsidies from the government, at least at the local level. In other words, the Japanese government has indeed had a lot to do with the development of the nation's rail network. The fact is that we have a very physical environment than Japan. They cram 130 million people into area smaller than Montana. 25% of those people live in metro Tokyo. Sure, they can have high speed rail between cities because the distance between their cities isn't that great. Sure they can have commuter rail within the cities because most people live in very densely populated cities in high rise apartments, not in single family suburban homes like the U.S. The Shinkansen network is now 1528 miles long, stretching from northern Honshu to Kyushu, and still growing. Hardly what I call a short distance. I see no reason why the US could not start developing high speed rail networks along busy corridors such as the Northeast (Boston, NY, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC) and West Coasts (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, San Diego). Sure, the sheer size of the US versus Japan presents a major challenge, but it's doable at least along the more heavily populated areas along the coasts. And don't forget that Japan, while much smaller than the US, is also quite mountainous in places. There are plenty of tunnels along train routes that go through mountains. I think the main reason is the cultural differences between Japan and the US. The US, being individualistic, is a "car culture." "Auto-sapiens" as I like to call it. Ask yourself, why don't you take that train from the Seattle airport into town? Is it because 1. It's inconvenient for you 2. Too expensive 3. You just don't want to because you'd rather drive your car. Cars in the US are a status symbol, not just a means for getting around. Riding the bus or train, or even a bicycle is for the "lower class," meaning those the cannot afford a car. Personally, I haven't owned a car since I moved to Tokyo in 1999, and don't miss it one bit. I get around by train or bicycle, or I walk. Works for me! Certainly plenty of Japanese own cars too, but it's just not to the same extent as in the US. And in Tokyo, just like Manhattan, you really wouldn't want to own/operate a car, unless you had a lot of patience and disposable income. Just dealing with parking would be enough to drive me crazy! I've been to Japan 20+ times. You can't compare the two at all. You're right, you can't. But I think it's more about attitudes than physical issues. You say you live in Japan, so you should know this. You doubt that I live in Tokyo? You really should stop paying attention to Badeye. :-)
The Railroad system which literally developed the entire western United States was a government operation. There is a reason why government needs to be involved in rail roads, and that's because the governments eminent domain power is needed to take land to build them. Without the Pacific Railway Acts the United States wouldn't be the United States we are today. It was one of our crowning achievements. Those acts gave the railroads 1/10th of the area of the United States. One tenth. That was huge. And now Republicans, denying the legacy of Lincoln, would rather spend the money building infrastructure on Iraq and Afghanistan.
There is a reason why government needs to be involved in rail roads, and that's because the governments eminent domain power is needed to take land to build them. Without the Pacific Railway Acts the United States wouldn't be the United States we are today. It was one of our crowning achievements. Those acts gave the railroads 1/10th of the area of the United States. One tenth. That was huge. And now Republicans, denying the legacy of Lincoln, would rather spend the money building infrastructure on Iraq and Afghanistan. Yup, and I wonder, do they think private companies developed the interstate highway system that they drive their beloved cars on?
I don't live downtown. I live on the east side. That's the point. American cities are too spread out to make commuter rail practical. Again, the Philippines has a mass transportation system (private van-sized buses) that would work a lot better in the U.S. than commuter rail.
I never said that.
Utter nonsense. The largest federal infrastructure bill in history was passed in 2002 under Bush and a Republican congress. Commuter rail won't work in America because most people live in single family homes in the suburbs rather than in high rise apartment buildings in big cities. Why should we throw billions of dollars at rail projects that won't do much of anything to move people and reduce road congestion? Why? Oh because China or Japan or Europe does it. That's not a good reason.
How much did we spend during the Bush presidency on building infrastructure in Iraq?
You know the history of GM destroying passenger rail / trolley systems because they wanted to sell buses, right?
Thanks for making my point. Most U.S. cities are NOT structured like Manhattan. They are structured like Dallas, St. Louis, or Detroit, with the bulk of the population living in single family homes in the suburbs rather than in high rise apartments in the city. In Tokyo, I can leave my apartment, walk a couple of blocks to a train station and every 5 or 6 minutes two or more trains show up (depending on the size of the station) going in different directions. That won't work in Livonia Michigan or Irvine Texas. Commuter rail won't work in most places in the U.S. because of the way that our cities are laid out. It's just that simple.
It's irrelevant to the point at hand. Bush spent money on everything including infrastructure in the U.S. Please keep on point or start an Iraq war thread.
I agree, but there are places where commuter rail makes a lot of sense - beefing up the NE corridor so D.C. to Boston via train takes 2-3 hours rather than 5-6 would make a great deal of sense.
Fine. If the people who live in that area want to form a regional transportation board and tax yourselves to pay for it, that's great. I live 3,000 miles away and I want to subsidize it because it doesn't benefit me at all.
But you are fine with subsidizing airport construction in Boston, FAA operations in NY, road construction in Pennsylvania, and military operations in the middle east to protect our oil supply? Therein lies the rub - the anti-train crowd generally ignores federal subsidies for non-rail transportation.
Most airports are owned by county governments. The taxpayers in those counties and states should foot the bills. I am in favor of privatizing the air traffic control system, as they've done in the U.K. The interstate highway system is a system that ties the entire country together. It benefits everyone. Country and State roads should be paid for by county and state taxpayers.
And what if there was a line that went to your area? Would you use it? I think that's an excuse that masks the real reason, namely that Americans just don't want to give up their cars. When you factor in the suburbs and rural areas as well, Tokyo is also quite spread out, yet the rail network pretty well covers it. Again, the Philippines has a mass transportation system (private van-sized buses) that would work a lot better in the U.S. than commuter rail. Sounds like the bemos I traveled in when backpacking in Indonesia years ago. Well, anything is better than people driving solo in their SUV's.
Have you ever lived in America outside of Manhattan or another large downtown area? I live on an acre. Surrounded by houses on acreage. How will the line get to my house? It won't. That's the point. Most Americans don't live in high rise apartments, where you can walk a couple of blocks to get to a train station. We live in single family homes. The solution that works in Tokyo or Manhattan is not even feasible in most American metropolitan areas. It can't be done.
I lived in suburban New Jersey and in the Bay Area south of San Francisco and hated that fact that public transportation was so poor and that driving a car was the only option for transport. I live on an acre. Surrounded by houses on acreage. How will the line get to my house? It won't. That's the point. You need the train to come right to your front door in order for it to be effective? Even if you only had to drive a short distance to the station (which contained parking) or took a bus, you couldn't or wouldn't do it? Most Americans don't live in high rise apartments, where you can walk a couple of blocks to get to a train station. The solution that works in Tokyo or Manhattan is not even feasible in most American metropolitan areas. It can't be done. What does what kind of dwelling one lives in have to do with it? You're saying you can't make a train line go to the suburbs? You realize that train lines go into suburban and rural areas in Japan, don't you? Why can't this be done in the US?
Also, please have the courtesy of answering my questions before posing your own.
Kasich has said that the top speed of 79 miles per hour on the proposed Ohio project is too slow and he has questioned whether enough people will ride it. About 6 million people live along the Cleveland to Cincinnati corridor, making it one of the most heavily populated corridors without rail service in the Midwest — but a well-used interstate, I-71, lies along the same route.
#2. To: go65 (#0)
and he has questioned whether enough people will ride it
#3. To: go65 (#0)
(Edited)
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#4. To: jwpegler (#3)
(Edited)
The left has had a train fetish since one of their 20th century heroes -- Benito Mussolini -- allegedly "made the trains run on time".
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#5. To: Badeye (#1)
And given the average speed I've witnessed my entire life on I-71 between Cincy and Cleveland, Kasich is 100% correct. We in Ohio do not need this.
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#6. To: go65 (#5)
#7. To: go65, All (#0)
#8. To: All (#7)
#9. To: jwpegler, go65 (#3)
#10. To: go65 (#4)
(Edited)
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#11. To: meguro (#9)
(Edited)
And those leftist Japanese have had a high speed bullet train since the 1960's.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#12. To: jwpegler (#11)
(Edited)
This is not what the left has in mind in the U.S. They want the government to own and control passenger rail.
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#13. To: Badeye (#6)
Why is that important?
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#14. To: go65 (#12)
(Edited)
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#15. To: jwpegler (#14)
This is a government plan and it's heavily targeted at the northeast.
Why do we need a Buffalo-Albany high speed rail? Does anyone still live in Buffalo? Why wouldn't you hook up Dallas and Houston? Where is the High Tech Corridor rail between Seattle and Silicon Valley (Alaska Airlines runs one flight an hour between the two locations, so there diffidently is a need).
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#16. To: go65 (#5)
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#17. To: Happy Quanzaa, go65 (#16)
And when are they going to accept responsibility for the housing collapse they started which caused the Great Democratic Depression?
#18. To: go65 (#15)
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#19. To: jwpegler (#18)
So I'm suppose to pay for people to ride between Buffalo and Albany? Why? How does that benefit me, my family, my business and my community? It doesn't.
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#20. To: go65 (#13)
#21. To: jwpegler (#11)
Yes, and Japan's commuter rail and high speed rail are owned by 16 major private companies as well as some smaller companies and a few public-private partnerships. This is not what the left has in mind in the U.S. They want the government to own and control passenger rail.
#22. To: meguro (#21)
#23. To: Rhino (#22)
The Railroad system which literally developed the entire western United States was a government operation.
#24. To: meguro (#21)
Ask yourself, why don't you take that train from the Seattle airport into town?
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#25. To: meguro (#21)
You doubt that I live in Tokyo?
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#26. To: Rhino (#22)
And now Republicans, denying the legacy of Lincoln, would rather spend the money building infrastructure on Iraq and Afghanistan.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#27. To: jwpegler (#26)
Utter nonsense. The largest federal infrastructure bill in history was passed in 2002 under Bush and a Republican congress.
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#28. To: meguro, rhino (#23)
Yup, and I wonder, do they think private companies developed the interstate highway system that they drive their beloved cars on?
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#29. To: meguro (#21)
And in Tokyo, just like Manhattan, you really wouldn't want to own/operate a car
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#30. To: go65 (#27)
How much did we spend during the Bush presidency on building infrastructure in Iraq?
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#31. To: jwpegler (#29)
Commuter rail won't work in most places in the U.S. because of the way that our cities are laid out. It's just that simple.
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#32. To: go65 (#31)
I agree, but there are places where commuter rail makes a lot of sense - beefing up the NE corridor so D.C. to Boston via train takes 2-3 hours rather than 5-6 would make a great deal of sense.
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#33. To: jwpegler (#32)
Fine. If the people who live in that area want to form a regional transportation board and tax yourselves to pay for it, that's great. I live 3,000 miles away and I want to subsidize it because it doesn't benefit me at all.
On January 3, 2011 the GOP assumes responsibility for deficit spending.
#34. To: go65 (#33)
But you are fine with subsidizing airport construction in Boston, FAA operations in NY, road construction in Pennsylvania
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#35. To: jwpegler (#24)
I don't live downtown. I live on the east side. That's the point. American cities are too spread out to make commuter rail practical.
#36. To: meguro (#35)
And what if there was a line that went to your area? Would you use it?
"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." -- Thomas Jefferson
#37. To: jwpegler (#36)
(Edited)
Have you ever lived in America outside of Manhattan or another large downtown area?
#38. To: jwpegler (#36)
And what if there was a line that went to your area? Would you use it?
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