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U.S. Constitution
See other U.S. Constitution Articles

Title: Christine O'Donnell Asks Where Constitution Calls For Separation Of Church, State
Source: Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.bnd.com/2010/10/19/14432 ... nell-questions-separation.html
Published: Oct 19, 2010
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2010-10-19 11:29:00 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 199312
Comments: 236

WASHINGTON -- Republican Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell of Delaware is questioning whether the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from establishing religion.

In a debate at Widener University Law School, O'Donnell criticized Democratic nominee Chris Coons' position that teaching creationism in public school would violate the First Amendment by promoting religious doctrine.

O'Donnell asked where the Constitution calls for the separation of church and state. When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?" Delaware Senate

The exchange Tuesday aired on radio station WDEL generated a buzz among law professors and students in the audience. Subscribe to *Tea Party On Parade*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 98.

#1. To: Brian S (#0)

Pssst. She's right. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say a thing about 'seperation of church and state'.

The history, and the revisionist history, related to this...theory, is facinating and revealing.

It was from a USSC minority ruling, designed to keep a specific religion from attaining elective office, in short.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-19   11:31:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Badeye (#1)

Pssst. She's right.

Huh?

here's what she said:

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

I think this one is pretty clear;

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

go65  posted on  2010-10-19   17:48:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: go65 (#24)

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion

Coons didn't say that.

He said:

Government shall make no establishment of religion

And no, it's not in the Constitution.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   9:17:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: no gnu taxes (#42)

Government shall make no establishment of religion

And no, it's not in the Constitution.

Yeah, he didn't quote verbatim, however its clear that he has the concept of what's in the First Amendment down.

Bottom line - can't uphold the Constitution if you don't know what's in it.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-10-20   11:19:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: lucysmom (#52)

And no, it's not in the Constitution.

Yeah, he didn't quote verbatim, however its clear that he has the concept of what's in the First Amendment down.

Not at all.

First of all, the 1st Amendment limits the powers of CONGRESS, not government, an important distinction as the basis of the discussion was allowing local schools to teach creation.

Second he seems to have completely forgot the first amendment also says that Congrees shall not prohibit the free exercise of religion, something he seems to fully support any form of government doing.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   11:25:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: no gnu taxes (#54)

First of all, the 1st Amendment limits the powers of CONGRESS, not government, an important distinction as the basis of the discussion was allowing local schools to teach creation.

O’Donnell is running for the Senate, isn't she? Shouldn't she know what laws Congress may and may not pass within the meaning of the Constitution?

The point is that she doesn't know what's in the Constitution.

Second he seems to have completely forgot the first amendment also says that Congrees shall not prohibit the free exercise of religion, something he seems to fully support any form of government doing.

How so?

You might find this article interesting:

religion.blogs.cnn.com/20...irst-amendment-ignorance/

As the author of Religious Literacy and adviser to the recent Pew Forum U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey, each of which demonstrated the ignorance of Americans about most things religious, I am not surprised that candidates for the U.S. Senate seem as surprised to learn about the Bill of Rights as I am by the latest plot turns in "Glee." (Emma? With John Stamos? Really?)

lucysmom  posted on  2010-10-20   13:11:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: lucysmom (#92)

The point is is O'Donnell did know; Coons didn't.

The 1st Amendment does not say GOVERNMENT can't establish laws establishing religion as Coons said; it specifically references Conrgress. O'Donnel was right to question him on this, especially since this entire matter was in regards to a local school decision to teach creation.

Did you even read my earlier post as you seem to be comnpletly disregarding it.

The fact is that Coons was wrong and O'Donnel was right as clearly articulated here.

Coons and Widener Students Looked Shockingly Foolish

More sensible commentary here

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   13:32:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: no gnu taxes (#94)

The fact is that Coons was wrong and O'Donnel was right as clearly articulated here.

From the posted article:

O'Donnell asked where the Constitution calls for the separation of church and state. When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

From the article you linked

The First Amendment establishes that Congress shall declare no official nationwide religion. The First Amendment does not ban the mention of religion in public. In fact, it protects same.

Who is arguing that the mention of religion in public is banned?

I can't remember a president that did not end a major speech with "God bless America", can you? But then God and religion are not the same thing are they?

From James Madison:

Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Gov will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

The Civil Government, tho' bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions with complete success; whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE. (thank you to you know who)

(The use of the word "state" in the above should not be confused with "state" as in one of the fifty states.)

lucysmom  posted on  2010-10-20   14:20:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 98.

#100. To: lucysmom (#98)

Coons is arguing it is unConstitutional for school districts to teach creation. O'Donnell argues there is nothing in the Constitution itself which would indicate such. And she is right. It's as simple as that.

And given that Madison lead prayers before Congress invoking his Calvinistic belief of Divine Providence, I would say he would agree with O'Donell, too.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20 14:26:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 98.

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