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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In U.S. Constitution See other U.S. Constitution Articles Title: Christine O'Donnell Asks Where Constitution Calls For Separation Of Church, State Source: Associated Press URL Source: http://www.bnd.com/2010/10/19/14432 ... nell-questions-separation.html Published: Oct 19, 2010 Author: Associated Press Post Date: 2010-10-19 11:29:00 by Brian S Keywords: None Views: 199133 Comments: 236 WASHINGTON -- Republican Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell of Delaware is questioning whether the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from establishing religion. In a debate at Widener University Law School, O'Donnell criticized Democratic nominee Chris Coons' position that teaching creationism in public school would violate the First Amendment by promoting religious doctrine. O'Donnell asked where the Constitution calls for the separation of church and state. When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?" Delaware Senate The exchange Tuesday aired on radio station WDEL generated a buzz among law professors and students in the audience. Subscribe to *Tea Party On Parade* Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-174) not displayed.       .       .       . #175. To: Rhino (#172) Also how is teaching one religion in a school not infringing on your right to practice your religion? How would you like it if you had to move to Boston, MA and the teachers taught Catholic Dogma as fact, in school? I don't send my kids to govt school. Everyone should be to send their kids to the school of their choice if they qualify. If we are to have govt education. The money should follow the student and not the district. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   18:39:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #176. To: All (#174) If anyone wants to know what that sound is, it's AKAStone realizing he in fact doesn't know everything. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:40:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #177. To: A K A Stone (#175) I don't send my kids to govt school. Everyone should be to send their kids to the school of their choice if they qualify. If we are to have govt education. The money should follow the student and not the district. I think a voucher system is a better system than what we have now. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:41:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #178. To: Rhino (#170) Godless Liberals like Thomas Jefferson. What an anti American piece of shit that guy was huh? He was Godless? Source that one please. He didn't believe in religion. =============== Jefferson says he was a "Materialist" (letter to Short, Apr. 13, 1820) and a "Unitarian" (letter to Waterhouse, Jan. 8, 1825). Jefferson rejected the Christian doctrine of the "Trinity" (letter to Derieux, Jul. 25, 1788), as well as the doctrine of an eternal Hell (letter to Van der Kemp, May 1, 1817). Further, Jefferson specifically named Joseph Priestly (English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (English Deist) and said: "I rest on them ... as the basis of my own faith" (letter to Adams, Aug. 22, 1813). Therefore, without using the actual words, Jefferson issued an authentic statement claiming Deism as his faith. http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/jefferson_deist.htm ----------------------------------------------------------- Liberals: -Pro nuclear proliferation. -Support fundamentalist religion that execute gays. -Have no issues with inmate abuse. -In discussions to release J.Pollard. WhiteSands  posted on  2010-10-20   18:41:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #179. To: Rhino (#174) A letter not a law. If you argue Constitutional Law based on Jefferson's personal life, then you could argue slavery is good. ----------------------------------------------------------- Liberals: -Pro nuclear proliferation. -Support fundamentalist religion that execute gays. -Have no issues with inmate abuse. -In discussions to release J.Pollard. WhiteSands  posted on  2010-10-20   18:44:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #180. To: Rhino (#169) The 14th amendment now forces all levels of government to follow the Bill of Rights. The 14th Amendment did not repeal the 10th Amendment. The Federal government doesn't tell the states they can't teach religion, the US Constitution does. Feel free to point the words that do so. You are effectively arguing that the right to bears arms, means the Fed's can't tell you whether your state can tell you have guns or not have guns. Actually, that's what YOU are arguing. What is taught in local schools is none of the Feds business. no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   18:45:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #181. To: Rhino (#174) Jefferson was actually defending the interests of the Church, meaning that the Federal Govt shouldn't be butting in. no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   18:46:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #182. To: WhiteSands (#178) He was Godless? Source that one please. He didn't believe in religion. =============== Jefferson says he was a "Materialist" (letter to Short, Apr. 13, 1820) and a "Unitarian" (letter to Waterhouse, Jan. 8, 1825). Jefferson rejected the Christian doctrine of the "Trinity" (letter to Derieux, Jul. 25, 1788), as well as the doctrine of an eternal Hell (letter to Van der Kemp, May 1, 1817). Further, Jefferson specifically named Joseph Priestly (English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (English Deist) and said: "I rest on them ... as the basis of my own faith" (letter to Adams, Aug. 22, 1813). Therefore, without using the actual words, Jefferson issued an authentic statement claiming Deism as his faith. http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/jefferson_deist.htm No I was being facetious because Stone claimed it was godless liberals who use Separation of Church and State, when in fact the term was created by Thomas Jefferson, specifically to describe the first amendment. Anyone claiming that the Separation and Church and State doesn't exist that hasn't read Jeffferson's letter to the Marbary Baptists, is talking about a subject they are purposely ignorant about. For fucks sake, you find this shit out if you just bother to google the term. This is what happens when people rely on Conservative talking points to educate themselves on constitutional law and American history. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:47:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #183. To: Rhino (#176) If anyone wants to know what that sound is, it's AKAStone realizing he in fact doesn't know everything. What you quoted from was a letter. It isn't the constitution for starters. If we are adding letters of Thomas Jefferson to the constitution how about this one "Then I say, the earth belongs to each of these generations during its course, fully and in its own right. The second generation receives it clear of the debts and incumbrances of the first, the third of the second, and so on. For if the first could charge it with a debt, then the earth would belong to the dead and not to the living generation. Then, no generation can contract debts greater than may be paid during the course of its own existence." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393 That is part of the constitution too because Jefferson was great and all his writings are part of the constitution right? A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   18:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #184. To: WhiteSands (#179) A letter not a law. If you argue Constitutional Law based on Jefferson's personal life, then you could argue slavery is good. The first amendment is law however. And it does separate church and state. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:49:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #185. To: Rhino (#182) There is no separation of church and state. Go back and read the constitution. The FACT is that there is only a prohibition on CONGRESS!!!! A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   18:50:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #186. To: Rhino (#182) No I was being facetious No problem. Got it. I rarely use the sarc tag too. ----------------------------------------------------------- Liberals: -Pro nuclear proliferation. -Support fundamentalist religion that execute gays. -Have no issues with inmate abuse. -In discussions to release J.Pollard. WhiteSands  posted on  2010-10-20   18:50:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #187. To: Rhino (#184) The first amendment is law however. And it does separate church and state. No it doesn't. Quote the constitution accurately and I will agree with you. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   18:50:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #188. To: A K A Stone (#183) What you quoted from was a letter. It isn't the constitution for starters. If we are adding letters of Thomas Jefferson to the constitution how about this one "Then I say, the earth belongs to each of these generations during its course, fully and in its own right. The second generation receives it clear of the debts and incumbrances of the first, the third of the second, and so on. For if the first could charge it with a debt, then the earth would belong to the dead and not to the living generation. Then, no generation can contract debts greater than may be paid during the course of its own existence." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393 That is part of the constitution too because Jefferson was great and all his writings are part of the constitution right? Did you read what I wrote? Obviously not. I was showing you that letter to show that the Separation of Church and State is just a term to describe the first amendment. Not some godless liberal conspiracy you cooked up. Thomas Jefferson's own words. Jefferson, the Supreme Court, and an objective reading of the Constitution aren't trumped by Christine O'Donnell. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:51:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #189. To: A K A Stone (#187) No it doesn't. Quote the constitution accurately and I will agree with you. Jefferson says it better than I. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:51:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #190. To: Rhino (#184) The first amendment essentially guarantees the right to religious freedom without any interference from the federal govt. Its purpose is to protect the churches, not the govt. no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   18:52:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #191. To: A K A Stone (#185) There is no separation of church and state. Go back and read the constitution. The FACT is that there is only a prohibition on CONGRESS!!!! See the fourteenth amendment and related case law. The Bill of Rights applies to the states. Which is why gun bans are now illegal Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:52:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #192. To: no gnu taxes (#190) The first amendment essentially guarantees the right to religious freedom without any interference from the federal govt. Its purpose is to protect the churches, not the govt. It also prevents the establishment of a religion. And yes the point is to protect all religions. Which is why the government can't teach any. Because teaching one is teaching against all the rest. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:53:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #193. To: Rhino (#188) Did you read what I wrote? Obviously not. I was showing you that letter to show that the Separation of Church and State is just a term to describe the first amendment. Yawn that is old news. Jefferson meant well. But liberals try to use those words to change the meaning of the constitution. There is no constitutional separation of church and state. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   18:54:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #194. To: Rhino (#192) And yes the point is to protect all religions. Which is why the government can't teach any. Because teaching one is teaching against all the rest. Incorrect. The prohibition is on Congress only. Not state or local govts. That is the true meaning of the words in the first amendment. Come on be honest and admit it and quit spinning. You will be ok. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   18:55:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #195. To: no gnu taxes (#180) The 14th Amendment did not repeal the 10th Amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." The 14th amendment makes the Bill of Rights apply to the states by the Constitution. That is perfectly in line with the bolded part of the tenth. The states are now prohibited from infringing our rights. Those powers are prohibited by the Constitution (14th amendment). Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:56:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #196. To: Rhino (#191) The 14th wasn't ratified properly and is not really part of the constitution. If it was real it would be more like the 15th amendment as the evil government got rid of the real 13th amendment. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   18:57:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #197. To: Rhino (#192) It also prevents the establishment of a religion. By CONGRESS. Religions are established all the time. no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   18:57:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #198. To: A K A Stone (#194) Incorrect. The prohibition is on Congress only. Not state or local govts. That is the true meaning of the words in the first amendment. Come on be honest and admit it and quit spinning. You will be ok. Until the passage of the 14th Amendment, absolutely. However most states have the first amendment in their constitutions as well. It would take amending their constitutions to remove them. However after the 14th amendment, the Bill of Rights applies to all levels of governments. To make a long story short, we fought this war, your side lost, and we made the 14th amendment. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:58:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #199. To: A K A Stone (#196) The 14th wasn't ratified properly and is not really part of the constitution. If it was real it would be more like the 15th amendment as the evil government got rid of the real 13th amendment. Well this is a conspiracy theory. I don't know what you want me to do with that. The 14th amendment is considered valid by every court in America. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:59:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #200. To: A K A Stone (#193) Yawn that is old news. Jefferson meant well. But liberals try to use those words to change the meaning of the constitution. There is no constitutional separation of church and state. I'll take Jefferson and the US Supreme court over Christine ODonnell and AKASTONE any day. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   18:59:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #201. To: Rhino (#199) The 14th amendment freed the slaves. That is the real 14th amendment. The 13th god rid of titles of nobility and honors. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   18:59:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #202. To: Rhino (#195) The 14th amendment makes the Bill of Rights apply to the states by the Constitution. That is perfectly in line with the bolded part of the tenth. You are just repeating yourself. Here is the 14th Amendment: http://www.14thamendment.us/amendment/14th_amendment.html Cut and paste the WORDS whick make you think the Federal Govt now has the authority to involve itself in local religious practices. no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   19:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #203. To: Rhino (#200) The supreme court that says it is ok to murder babies. Ok you stick with the baby murderers. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   19:00:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #204. To: no gnu taxes (#197) By CONGRESS. Religions are established all the time. Establishment of a state religion. Are you this bankrupt of historical knowledge? We can't debate this if you don't even speak the language. P.S. the 14th amendment makes the states follow the Bill of Rights. Either way, every single US state has the first amendment in it's own Constitution now. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   19:01:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #205. To: no gnu taxes (#202) Cut and paste the WORDS whick make you think the Federal Govt now has the authority to involve itself in local religious practices. I don't think the federal govt has the authority to involve itself in local religious practices. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   19:02:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #206. To: no gnu taxes (#202) Cut and paste the WORDS whick make you think the Federal Govt now has the authority to involve itself in local religious practices. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   19:02:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #207. To: A K A Stone (#205) I don't think the federal govt has the authority to involve itself in local religious practices. It doesn't. But neither does your local government. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   19:02:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #208. To: Rhino (#199) Well this is a conspiracy theory. I don't know what you want me to do with that. The 14th amendment is considered valid by every court in America. It is no conspiracy theory. The South was denied their equal sufferage in the Senate. They were already admitted into the union and passed the 13th (really the 14th) which outlawed slavery or involuntary servitude. So they were already back in the union with good standing. They refused the 14th (really the 15th) and then the feds put in the puppets under the gun. It is not valid. It is dishonest. It is not true to our constitution. It is color of law "legal" not lawful and that is the honest truth. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   19:05:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #209. To: Rhino (#206) No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. So if States arbitrarily refuse schools the tight to teach creationist philosophies alongside evolution, they are depriving students of knowledge, and the Fed Govt should step in and force them to teach it, huh. When do you think they'll start doing this? no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   19:06:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #210. To: Rhino (#207) It doesn't. But neither does your local government. constitutionally they do. I wouldn't want someone telling me which church to go to. That isn't really the issue. The issue is the govt taking prayer out of school and butting into church business. Prohibiting judges from hanging the 10 commandments on their court wall. Stuff like that. A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-20   19:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #211. To: no gnu taxes (#209) So if States arbitrarily refuse schools the tight to teach creationist philosophies alongside evolution, they are depriving students of knowledge, and the Fed Govt should step in and force them to teach it, huh. When do you think they'll start doing this? Creationism is a religious doctrine. The schools can teach what they want as long as it isn't an establishment of a religion. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   19:10:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #212. To: A K A Stone (#210) constitutionally they do. I wouldn't want someone telling me which church to go to. That isn't really the issue. The issue is the govt taking prayer out of school and butting into church business. Prohibiting judges from hanging the 10 commandments on their court wall. Stuff like that. Children are allowed to pray, the school just can't lead them in prayer. Even if every American was some kind of Christian, you all have different prayers. And American isn't all Christian. The Separation of Church and State doesn't prevent hanging the 10 commandments as art or history, but it does prevent it as a display of faith by the court. That again would be establishment of religion. On a further note, it's funny that they choose the 10 commandments when the Bill of Rights specifically makes the first three commandments specifically LEGAL in the United States. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   19:14:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #213. To: Rhino (#211) Creationism is a religious doctrine. The schools can teach what they want as long as it isn't an establishment of a religion. A religion isn't being taught. It's merely an alternative theory of the origins. There's no dogma, or sects, or creeds. And even if there were, how is anybody being deprived of life, liberty or property? By hearing something they might object to? So any kid in any classroom who hears something they object to is protected by the 14th Amendment? The only ones being deprived are those being deprived of a complete education. Why isn't the Fed Govt helping them. no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-10-20   19:16:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #214. To: no gnu taxes (#213) A religion isn't being taught. It's merely an alternative theory of the origins. There's no dogma, or sects, or creeds. Genesis isn't a theory it's a religious text. And even if there were, how is anybody being deprived of life, liberty or property? By hearing something they might object to? So any kid in any classroom who hears something they object to is protected by the 14th Amendment? Liberty to freely excercise their religion, and freedom from an establishment of a state religion. A school can't teach your religion is false. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   19:18:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #215. To: no gnu taxes (#213) The only ones being deprived are those being deprived of a complete education. Why isn't the Fed Govt helping them. Creationism isn't part of a complete education. It is religion. I can't get why a bunch of people who think it is communism to have government pay for healthcare, wants socialized religious education? Do you guys really want the school district in charge of teaching your kid religion. Do you know what countries have religious education in school? Europe. It didn't keep them holy, it destroyed their religions by mixing it with government. Rhino  posted on  2010-10-20   19:20:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (216 - 236) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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