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Title: Tea Party vs. War Party?
Source: TownHall
URL Source: http://townhall.com/columnists/PatB ... 0/10/01/tea_party_vs_war_party
Published: Oct 3, 2010
Author: Pat Buchanan
Post Date: 2010-10-03 18:16:36 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 38604
Comments: 59

"We're all on the same page until the polls close Nov. 2," Richard Viguerie, the longtime conservative strategist who has allied with the Tea Party, told The New York Times. After that, "a massive, almost historic battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party begins."

Indeed, such a battle seems unavoidable. Consider.

The great issue uniting and motivating the Republican Party and Tea Party is the deficit-debt crisis, a national debt nearing 100 percent of gross domestic product and a deficit of 10 percent of GDP.

As to the cause of the deficit that could precipitate a run on the dollar, double-digit inflation, even a default, the Tea Party and GOP also agree -- federal spending that consumes 25 percent of GDP.

Both are also on the same page in their opposition to closing the deficit with new or higher taxes.

This means spending must be slashed. But to cut the budget to 20 percent of GDP, where it was before George W. Bush and Barack Obama, requires spending cuts of an astronomical $700 billion a year. Even then, the 2011 deficit would be $700 billion.

As interest on the debt must be paid, or we default, there are only two places you can find that kind of money. The first is the major entitlement programs -- Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security -- and social spending for education, veterans benefits, earned income tax credits and unemployment compensation.

But a Democratic Party, brutalized and bled on Nov. 2, returning to Capitol Hill with its moderate wing annihilated, is unlikely to collude with a resurgent Republican right and Tea Party caucus in hacking away at social programs that are the Democratic Party's pride and joy, and the reason that party exists.

Which leaves one place where a bipartisan majority may be found for major spending cuts: defense and the empire, the warfare state.

The "agonizing reappraisal" of commitments abroad that John Foster Dulles predicted half a century ago may be at hand.

And here is where the Tea Party and War Party split the blanket.

If Obama makes good on his pledge of full withdrawal of the 50,000 U.S. troops in Iraq by the end of 2011, will the Tea Party and Republican right oppose that withdrawal and join the War Party in demanding that we retain an army in Iraq indefinitely?

If Obama refuses to go to war against Iran, a war that would send oil prices soaring, close the Persian Gulf and be a disaster for the global economy, will the Tea Party join the War Party in denouncing Obama for not launching a third war in the Near East?

If Obama begins his promised withdrawal from Afghanistan next July, will Tea Party Republicans join the War Party and the generals in accusing Obama of inviting an American defeat? Subscribe to *Tea Party On Parade*

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#1. To: Brian S (#0)

All we can afford to do on 2 November is vote to DEFEAT ANYONE who supports the ObamaNation's Marxist Agenda. Then, once we replace a good number of the BigGuv'ment RATS, we gotta ride herd on whoever's in office until November 2012...MUD

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2010-10-03   19:12:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Mudboy Slim (#1)

All we can afford to do on 2 November is vote to DEFEAT ANYONE who supports the ObamaNation's Marxist Agenda. Then, once we replace a good number of the BigGuv'ment RATS, we gotta ride herd on whoever's in office until November 2012...MUD

Yeah Right. We saw how well the so called 'conservatives' rode herd on the GOP drunken spenders when they had the chance. In fact they will be gunning for a war with Iran minutes ofter the oaths of offices are uttered.

mininggold  posted on  2010-10-03   19:34:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: mininggold (#2)

Yeah Right. We saw how well the so called 'conservatives' rode herd on the GOP drunken spenders when they had the chance. In fact they will be gunning for a war with Iran minutes ofter the oaths of offices are uttered.

Iran shouldn't have nukes. They are muslim and muslims by definition are insane. But what you said is a possibility.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-03   19:38:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: A K A Stone (#3)

Iran shouldn't have nukes. They are muslim and muslims by definition are insane. But what you said is a possibility.

They should have every right to protect themselves afforded citizens of other theocracies.

mininggold  posted on  2010-10-03   19:41:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: mininggold (#4)

No theocracies on earth. This isn't a game they are playing. Where it is you have them so we can too. They would use them to our detriment if given the chance. It is bad enough that any nation has them. The more nations that have them the riskier the world.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-03   19:45:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: mininggold (#4)

Would you be happier and feel better if every nation on earth had nukes?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-03   19:46:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: A K A Stone (#6)

Would you be happier and feel better if every nation on earth had nukes?

I don't like nukes but then I don't get to make the rules. Only some people are worth protecting in your world I guess. There's lots of Christians and Jews in some of those countries too. They must be expedient.

mininggold  posted on  2010-10-03   19:54:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: A K A Stone (#5)

They would use them to our detriment if given the chance. It is bad enough that any nation has them. The more nations that have them the riskier the world.

You must like gun control too.

mininggold  posted on  2010-10-03   19:59:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: mininggold (#8)

I am not for gun control. That doesn't mean I think our enemies should be able to destroy us. You are being silly now.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-10-03   20:13:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A K A Stone (#3)

Iran shouldn't have nukes. They are muslim and muslims by definition are insane. But what you said is a possibility.

Muslims are not by definition insane.

I agree that Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons, but if I was President of Iran and I heard the leadership of the US call my country evil, then invade two nations on my border. I'd build a nuke too. There is a reason nobody is talking about invading Pakistan, or North Korea.

Rhino  posted on  2010-10-03   21:32:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: A K A Stone (#6)

Would you be happier and feel better if every nation on earth had nukes?

The world would be a safer place if you and I had nukes. Amanutjob would be cowering in his, cave instead of threatening us.

I wish more Americans exercised their 2nd amendment right to keep and bear nukes (arms). Even the folks on this forum would be more polite, and respectful of other peoples opinions.

Hondo68  posted on  2010-10-03   22:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Brian S (#0)

The great issue uniting and motivating the Republican Party and Tea Party is the deficit-debt crisis, a national debt nearing 100 percent of gross domestic product and a deficit of 10 percent of GDP.

No, it's hatred for Obama, that's it.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-10-03   22:11:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: mininggold (#4)

"They should have every right to protect themselves afforded citizens of other theocracies."

What a moronic statement...you support Iran's "right" to nukes? Lib'ral idiocy is dangerous when it occupies the Oval Office.

DEFEAT the ObamaNation...then devolve Power from there...MUD

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2010-10-03   22:20:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: go65 (#12)

"...it's hatred for Obama, that's it."

Hogwash, Obamabot...Barry Hussein's a friggin' puppet, the anger uniting the TeaPartyin' ReaganConservatives goes WAAAY beyond disliking the KrazyKenyanKracker, my friend. Yer knee-jerk Leftist reaction betrays yer stubborn defense of the indefensible BigGuv'ment status quo. Do YOU receive yer substinance from the Federal Leviathan? You post like someone who's on the dole...MUD

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2010-10-03   22:24:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Mudboy Slim (#14)

Hogwash, Obamabot...Barry Hussein's a friggin' puppet, the anger uniting the TeaPartyin' ReaganConservatives goes WAAAY beyond disliking the KrazyKenyanKracker, my friend. Yer knee-jerk Leftist reaction betrays yer stubborn defense of the indefensible BigGuv'ment status quo. Do YOU receive yer substinance from the Federal Leviathan? You post like someone who's on the dole...MUD

They weren't pissed under Bush. What happened between then and when the Tea Parties started?

Rhino  posted on  2010-10-04   0:21:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: go65 (#12)

No, it's hatred for Obama, that's it.

Problem with this statement is polling data shows its laughably wrong. He personal approval rating is pretty good given the circumstances.

Its his insane policies, GO65, that have the nation voting against one party rule, and his administration.

Tripling the deficit for no gain being one of the biggest.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   10:24:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Rhino (#15)

They weren't pissed under Bush. What happened between then and when the Tea Parties started?

Oh gosh - what was it?

lucysmom  posted on  2010-10-04   10:51:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Badeye (#16)

Tripling the deficit for no gain being one of the biggest.

His deficit is less than Bush's last deficit - but never mind.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-10-04   10:52:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: lucysmom (#18)

His deficit is less than Bush's last deficit - but never mind.

And you wonder why I refer to you as 'goofy' huh?

(laughing)

Owe-bama has spent more money than almost all the other Presidents COMBINED, goofy.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   11:09:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Badeye (#19)

And you wonder why I refer to you as 'goofy' huh?

It took you long enough to figure out, and with guidance to boot, that referring to me as "goofy'smom" was insulting my daughter, not me. (How goofy is that?)

No, I don't wonder - its just you being snotty, and you couldn't even get that right without help.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-10-04   13:44:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: lucysmom (#20)

Wrong, goofy. You just want to hide behind your daughter. It was laughable you pretended otherwise.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   13:47:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Badeye (#16)

Its his insane policies, GO65, that have the nation voting against one party rule, and his administration.

His approval rating is up in Rasmussen, it even hit 50% a few days ago.

You need to keep ranting harder, it isn't working.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-10-04   13:48:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Badeye (#16)

Tripling the deficit for no gain being one of the biggest.

No matter how many times you tell that lie, it still isn't true.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-10-04   13:48:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: go65 (#22)

Its his insane policies, GO65, that have the nation voting against one party rule, and his administration. His approval rating is up in Rasmussen, it even hit 50% a few days ago.

Personal or job performance, GO65?

Thats my point, its not that anyone gives a rats ass what his ethnic background is - beyond the odd kook.

His personal approval - likeability - remains pretty good.

But his job performance polling data is well below 50%. And thats what matters the most.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   13:51:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: go65 (#23)

Tripling the deficit for no gain being one of the biggest. No matter how many times you tell that lie, it still isn't true.

Majority of American voters agree with me. Thats good enough.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   13:51:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Badeye (#25)

Majority of American voters agree with me. Thats good enough.

I guess that makes you common.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-10-04   14:00:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Badeye (#21)

It was laughable you pretended otherwise.

You laugh at anything.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-10-04   14:01:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: lucysmom (#26)

guess that makes you common.

History sez the party out of presidential power will gain seats in the midterms. It's a given.

mininggold  posted on  2010-10-04   14:08:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Badeye (#19)

And you wonder why I refer to you as 'goofy' huh?

(laughing)

Owe-bama has spent more money than almost all the other Presidents COMBINED, goofy.

Where were you when Bush signed the largest socialized health bill of the century Medicare Part D?

If you take away the deficit Bush left (including TARP which was a Bush program that caused a massive increase in the deficit), the effects of the economy crashing (which obviously decreases revenue), the middle class Obama tax cut, the only real sizable Obama increase in spending was the stimulus bill?

And of course in 2008 did a smaller stimulus package.

So in Bush's first term he started two full scale wars*, Increased socialized medicine more than any president since LBJ (and more than Obama) without funding it, doubled the Department of Education spending on shitty No Child Left Behind, and send Billions to Africa.

Now why did Bush earn you all's vote, and Obama is communist?

*(fucking both up strategically for the better part of a decade, though at least Iraq was salvaged 5 years later)

Rhino  posted on  2010-10-04   14:11:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Rhino (#15)

"They weren't pissed under Bush."

A lot of us have been pissed since we realized a Republican majority did not mean a conservative majority, and many of us abandoned the GOP to become Indies united in our belief that the Federal Leviathan has grown far too Powerful far too expensive, and simply unsustainable.

"What happened between then and when the Tea Parties started?"

The RAT-Messiah happened, my Rhino friend...instead of slowly turning up the heat to cook the frog, the Obamaation's unapologetically Marxist agenda shocked a lotta folks out of their bipartisan-caused lethargy. We cannot afford to keep wasting so much money at the Federal level, especially as we reward failure while punishing the Successful. If it'd been President Hillary, a similar backlash wouldda erupted, imho, and if McCain wouldda kept throwing borrowed money at present day problems, I think he wouldda got a taste of this, too. However, it's Obama who ignited the firestorm, and the RATS/RINOS who will continue to fear its bite...MUD

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2010-10-04   14:30:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Mudboy Slim (#30)

A lot of us have been pissed since we realized a Republican majority did not mean a conservative majority, and many of us abandoned the GOP to become Indies united in our belief that the Federal Leviathan has grown far too Powerful far too expensive, and simply unsustainable.

On Nov 7 2008 and you'll be back Nov 5 2010. You aren't fooling anyone.

>The RAT-Messiah happened, my Rhino friend...instead of slowly turning up the heat to cook the frog, the Obamaation's unapologetically Marxist agenda shocked a lotta folks out of their bipartisan-caused lethargy.

What? Bush passed a larger socialize medicine bill than Obama did. Explain it.

>We cannot afford to keep wasting so much money at the Federal level, especially as we reward failure while punishing the Successful.

The largest discretionary program is the defense department. How about gutting it?

>If it'd been President Hillary, a similar backlash wouldda erupted, imho, and if McCain wouldda kept throwing borrowed money at present day problems, I think he wouldda got a taste of this, too.

Hillary to a somewhat lesser extend but mostly the same. McCain? Would have been welcomed as a Savior.

>However, it's Obama who ignited the firestorm, and the RATS/RINOS who will continue to fear its bite..

He only ignited a shit storm because of his party. If he was a republican you guys would be claiming he single handedly won the Iraq war, and his stimulus plan saved the country.

It's all partisan theatre. There is very little real difference between the Bush and Obama administrations.

Rhino  posted on  2010-10-04   14:37:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Rhino (#15) (Edited)

They weren't pissed under Bush.

Many of us were extremely pissed at Bush. Here's a sample blog I wrote in Oct 2008. I have many more like it going back a couple of years:

George Bush: Socialist Nincompoop

This morning as I was getting ready for work, I watched in horror as George Bush explained how the government “investing” in banks is somehow not socialism.

There are three important points to make here:

First Bush claimed that this was only temporary and that at some point the future, government would sell their “investments” and all would be back to normal . Sorry Georgie but to paraphrase Ronald Reagan: the closest thing we’ll ever see to eternal life on earth is a government program. These “investments” will only grow in time to the point where the government will eventually have nationalized the entire financial system.

Second, Bush claimed that these “investments” are part of a well thought out plan. What a joke. A few weeks ago, the Bush administration was arguing against a similar British plan. Here’s the problem: the stock market had its worst week ever after Bush signed the $700 billion bailout bill that the administration claimed would calm people’s fears. Now they are just twisting in the wind. There isn't any plan. They are making things up as they go along, and spending your money in the process.

Third, by definition government ownership is socialism.

I’ll say it again, the Bush family has ruined the Republican Party that Reagan built. Now they are ruining the country. Enough is enough. I’m not the only one who understands this. Christopher Buckley, who is the son of the late William F. Buckley, the founder of the modern conservative movement, has now also abandoned the GOP, resigned from the magazine his father founded, and endorsed Obama. This is what he said:

While I regret this development, I am not in mourning, for I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for. Eight years of “conservative” government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance. As a sideshow, it brought us a truly obscene attempt at federal intervention in the Terry Schiavo case.

So, to paraphrase a real conservative, Ronald Reagan: I haven’t left the Republican Party. It left me.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.


democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-10-04   14:58:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: jwpegler (#32)

"I no longer have any clear idea what, exactly, the modern conservative movement stands for. Eight years of “conservative” government has brought us a doubled national debt, ruinous expansion of entitlement programs, bridges to nowhere, poster boy Jack Abramoff and an ill-premised, ill-waged war conducted by politicians of breathtaking arrogance."

Dubyuh was NO CONSERVATIVE and we learned that having a GOP Majority in Congress ain't anything like having a "conservative majority"..."Conservative Government" respects and defends the supremacy of the U.S. Constitution and the limits imposed upon the Federal Leviathan therein...MUD

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2010-10-04   15:13:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: lucysmom (#27)

I'm generally a very happy person, goofy. That stated, I find you hilariously funny most of the time.

The problem is you aren't trying to be funny.....

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   15:16:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: mininggold (#28)

History sez the party out of presidential power will gain seats in the midterms. It's a given.

Not in this century, ming.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   15:17:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Mudboy Slim (#33)

Dubyuh was NO CONSERVATIVE

No shit. I knew it 2000 and I didn't vote for him.

Go back to 2000 and look at how many HAILED Bush as a conservative who would be more like Reagan than pappy Bush.

After Bush got into office, he proceeding to spend money like president since LBJ. His Republican majorities in the House and Senate went along with him.

This is why we have Obama today -- because the GOP blew it.


democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-10-04   15:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Rhino (#29)

Where were you when Bush signed the largest socialized health bill of the century Medicare Part D?

If you take away the deficit Bush left (including TARP which was a Bush program that caused a massive increase in the deficit), the effects of the economy crashing (which obviously decreases revenue), the middle class Obama tax cut, the only real sizable Obama increase in spending was the stimulus bill?

And of course in 2008 did a smaller stimulus package.

I was screaming my head off he was not just wrong, he was betraying the country, and selling its future.

Its these spending habits that led me to vote AGAINST the GOP in 2006, rhino. And my posts from the summer of that year at LP document it.

As for the two wars, I supported them both. Iraq's done. We need to get the hell out of Afghanistan, we've done what we needed to. Time to go.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   15:20:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Badeye (#19)

And you wonder why I refer to you as 'goofy' huh?

She is one STUPID broad... I bozoed her, because I couldn't tolerate her idiocy any longer.

I feel sorry for her daughter... to be raised by a complete sheep.

Getting tired of the bozoed calcon following me around on the 'net, wanting to discuss "tossing salad." Sorry, you sick rump-ranger. NOT interested.

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2010-10-04   15:22:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Capitalist Eric (#38)

She's just your average liberal hypocrite. Anyone that bitches about Bush's deficits, but is okay with Owe-bama tripling it, is flat out 'goofy'...and hypocritical.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-10-04   15:24:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Badeye (#37)

I was screaming my head off he was not just wrong, he was betraying the country, and selling its future.

I think the point is that Hanity, Limbaugh and the rest didn't utter a peep about it until the very end of the Bush administration.

The one nationally known Republican that did speak out (Ron Paul) was at first marginalized and then demonized by the GOP establishment.


democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-10-04   15:32:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: lucysmom (#18)

His deficit is less than Bush's last deficit

Untrue. The budget deficit this fiscal year will be about $1.47 TRILLION -- by far the largest ever.


democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not -- Thomas Jefferson

jwpegler  posted on  2010-10-04   15:40:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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