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Title: Nation Breaking A soldier discovers that training the Iraqi army is not President Bush’s priority.
Source:
American Conservative
URL Source: http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_07_03/article.html
Published: Jun 27, 2006
Author: Joe W. Guthrie
Post Date: 2006-06-27 19:52:07 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 43781
Comments: 48
I didn’t grow up with dreams of spreading democracy. I was an all-American kid from a small southern town who went to college on a baseball scholarship and joined the National Guard to earn some extra money. During graduate school, recruiters persuaded me to join the Army through ROTC so that after graduation I would enter as an officer. I bought their pitch and believed our newly elected president when he promised no more nation building. My dad told me, “It’s a great time to join the military. It has done an excellent job of repairing itself after Vietnam.” I was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in December 2002 and, after paratrooper and additional officer training, was transferred from the 82nd Airborne Infantry to the new Stryker Brigade units at Ft. Lewis. In October 2004, I deployed to Iraq. I went with an open mind. By then, the mission was well underway, and we had heard the negative reports filtering back. But I believed that I could make a difference and felt honored to serve. The fact that I had received more Arabic language and culture training than any other soldier in my battalion made me feel vital to an important mission. But I was anxious too. I had gotten married just three months before and wondered whether I would ever see my new wife again. I wondered what I would do in a firefight. My whole life I had heard that fear of the unknown is the greatest fear, and in October 2004, it was for me. Confidence in my training and my government somewhat quelled these fears. During the flight to Iraq, I thought of my first jump in airborne school three years before. No clearer picture of the proverbial leap of faith existed in my mind—yet I knew greater challenges awaited. I also flashed back to that conversation with my dad when I joined the Guard. Having lived through the Vietnam era, he had always expressed displeasure with certain government institutions during that period. Like many of his generation, he found himself questioning authorities previously considered worthy of unflinching support. I always found these views curious because with the exception of this interlude in American history, my father always supported the government and raised me to do the same. “I don’t believe that our government will ever allow our military to become involved in a war like Vietnam again,” he told me. “The American people would not stand for it.” Those words would haunt me in the months ahead. * * * Within 48 hours of our boots touching Iraqi soil, my battalion was on the move to Mosul, which had historically enjoyed a reputation as a center of Mideast commerce, prized for its oilfields. But by the time we arrived, it teetered on the edge of collapse. Iraqi police had nearly all deserted their duties, and lawlessness reigned. I was designated the Iraqi army liaison officer, an assignment I took seriously. From the outset of the war, both President Bush and my superior officers had emphasized that training the Iraqi army was key to our mission’s success. But the longer I spent, the more I came to realize that this was not only a lie but an impossible strategy for achieving victory. Army doctrine and training have not accounted for a unit in combat having both to fight an insurgency and train indigenous peoples to assist in the fight. I started out as a one-man operation that grew into a cell of 60 people who rotated in for a week to a couple of months at a time. That infusion of manpower would seem to bolster the notion that Iraqi training was a priority. In reality, our leadership sent soldiers with suicidal tendencies, weight problems, and disillusionment. In a year’s time, we received only one visit from the battalion commander, only one visit from our battalion’s operations officer, and only one visit from the battalion executive officer. This isolation set us up for failure with the Iraqis. Meetings with the Iraqi colonel in our partner Iraqi army battalion were conducted by a master sergeant and me, and almost always a problem arose in these meetings beyond our authority to control. When asked to meet with our Iraqi army colonel, our battalion commander refused. I began to wonder: if the highest-ranking officers in a battalion did not care to interact with the Iraqis, how were the generals in the Pentagon to know what was going on? How would the president know? I realized that they wouldn’t—and they didn’t care because training the Iraqis was of little real interest. From October 2004 to September 2005, fewer than 180 fresh-from-the streets recruits were trained by our cell and incorporated into the Iraqi army battalion in Mosul, though the battalion’s personnel total was exaggerated by the Iraqis. These errors, while reported by our cell, were ignored by our superiors. Between October 2004 and April 2005, we conducted several headcounts of Iraqi army battalion personnel and never found more than 350 present at one time. But the Iraqis recorded 1,300, and the Iraqi figures were taken as accurate. When we reported this discrepancy, we were told we must factor in the number supposedly on vacation. Every month we sent accurate numbers, and in each case we were ordered to count at least 200 soldiers as being on leave. No proof that they were actually on authorized leave was ever provided except for the Iraqi army officers’ word. During our first month in Mosul, we were unable to conduct basic training due to Ramadan, so we opted to focus our efforts on facilities upgrade. But our requests to KBR—Kellogg, Brown and Root, Halliburton’s subsidiary company—failed because the contractor would not service any facility housing Iraqis, only Americans. Air conditioning and heat did not exist. Electricity often did not flow. These amenities could have been added easily by KBR. Our cell searched for help with money from a budget earmarked for Iraqi training but was ultimately unsuccessful. Iraqi contractors were often crooked and more familiar with the American system of payments than we were, our battalion chain of command refused to divert any American supplies or manpower to solve the problem, and giving money to Iraqis to fix their own infrastructure proved worthless because the money simply went into the hands of the highest-ranking Iraqi present. During our struggles, our U.S. battalion enjoyed much greater success finding contractors for its own projects. Upgrades for our detainee facilities were completed in less than a month, but the contractors responsible for these projects were never allowed to help us. * * * In addition to manpower shortages and facility failure, training doctrine was never uniformly approved nor implemented. An example: when we arrived in Mosul, we were given a manual by our preceding unit, which falsely described the procedure for clearing—making sure ammunition was no longer in the chamber of a weapon. The procedure given to us, which had been taught to the Iraqis for months, called for an additional step that did not appear in any manual in the U.S. Army. Upon discovering this error, our cell’s master sergeant blacked out all manuals illustrating the errant function and instituted the correct teaching. However, old habits die hard. In January 2005, one of our U.S. soldiers was killed by an Iraqi attempting to clear his weapon inside a Stryker vehicle. He pulled the trigger, consistent with the mistaken teaching he received, and one of our heroes was gone forever. The Army investigators ruled that the faulty system instilled by the American unit preceding us caused the problem. However, this practiced continued. In June 2005, some of the soldiers within our cell witnessed Special Forces soldiers implementing the same procedure that cost our soldier his life. After correcting the Special Forces team, our soldiers were told to “get your nose out of SF business.” In June 2005, Special Forces took over some of our training mission. After a quick tour, they announced that they would initiate driver’s training for our Iraqi battalion though we had completed it four months prior. Our master sergeant complained to both Special Forces and our battalion commander that this training had already been covered, and he was overruled. Our superiors were so uninterested in the training program that they would have voiced equal approval of Iraqis riding pigs. In March 2005, we began to push our trainees out on independent missions. They planned, briefed their troops, rehearsed, and executed the missions by themselves. All of these actions were repeated in June 2005, when Special Forces took over. Similarly, beginning in January 2005, every soldier in our Iraqi army battalion had participated in basic rifle marksmanship training. In June 2005, the same training was repeated by Special Forces. There was no coherence to the program—nor discernable progress. In April 2005, a push began across Iraq to utilize more personnel in Iraqi army training. According to the briefing I was given, a minimum of 15 soldiers made an adequate cell. Our cell already surpassed this number, but our battalion decided to upgrade it to nearly 60 soldiers to satisfy the Bush administration’s contention that large numbers of Iraqis were being trained and large numbers of U.S. soldiers were doing the training. But we needed more officers, not soldiers, so many of the newly acquired men ended up sitting around. No one bothered to ask whether a need existed. If anyone had, we would have said that the Iraqis did not have as many people present as U.S. commanders contended and that the Iraqi soldiers supposedly coming off vacation never did so simply because they did not exist. When these problems were brought to our battalion, our integrity was questioned. Moreover, our daily presence became highly resented by the Iraqis, especially their officers. They felt that the Iraqi army needed to be the sole authority responsible for training. Their battalion commander told me that any attempt by American officers to live in his training compound would be considered spying. And that was just the start of the conflicts. Most Iraqi officers considered their knowledge of the city and insurgents far superior to American technology and training, while Americans considered the Iraqis undisciplined and lazy. * * * Logistical issues compounded these operational headaches. For the first five months of our tour, we received no boots or uniforms for the Iraqis despite numerous searches and deals gone awry. We were told to utilize the local economy, but the only contractor we could find disappeared after we gave him an initial payment of $20,000. (The vanishing contractor had been recommended by the Iraqi battalion commander.) Months later, we discovered that two buildings, covered in weeds and rust and seemingly empty, were not. The Iraqis had told us that nothing was housed in these two buildings. One day we decided to open them and discovered enough equipment to outfit three battalions. Some of it read “March 2003”—the leadership of the Iraqi battalion had been hoarding this equipment for years. For all we knew they had been selling the uniforms to terrorist organizations. In addition, we also found a large cache of mines, mortar tubes, machine guns, and ammunition in an adjacent building. The resident Iraqi company commander was ostensibly fired by the Iraqi battalion commander, but we saw him return less than two weeks later. When we reported to our battalion, we were told, “Well, after all, it is their army.” Our cell’s replacement arrived in June in combination form. The first part came from two Special Forces teams. The second was part of the MiTT program (Military Transition Team), consisting of ten soldiers who were either experienced enlisted personnel or officers—meaning they had at least six to ten years time in the Army. I went with other Iraqi Army Liaison Officers from different battalions to Taji to meet with these men and describe what they would face in Mosul. To my dismay, I quickly learned they possessed no knowledge of their final destination. They made the journey with no radio communication, some with only one pair of boots, no information on where they would go or what they would be doing when they got there. I expected to hear questions like “What sort of operational tempo do your Iraqi counterparts possess?” In contrast, I was asked, “Lieutenant, do you have e-mail capability up in Mosul? Nobody has told us anything and I really want to know how I will communicate with my family.” I later found out that they were selected mostly from desk jobs in the Recruiting Command or the Pentagon. Yet I listened with them at their initial briefs about how they were performing “a mission that was the most important key to our success in Iraq.” If this were true then why were they sending desk jockeys with little or no experience training indigenous soldiers? And why during one of their initial briefings did their leader, a full colonel, have to plead for more boots for his men? Once these men arrived in Mosul, they were given a two-day welcome briefing. Then they were sent to remote combat outposts in the middle of the worst areas. Their only radios had been given to them by us. Running water worked on occasion. And they received no equipment to outfit their Iraqi counterparts. To this day, MiTT teams operate under the same conditions. Future help probably will not come due to our battalion replacement’s apparent apathy: they refused any data concerning our experience despite numerous attempts. Another logistical problem arose due to the Iraqi army’s masterful deception in accounting for their equipment. For the first six months of our tour, our cell inventoried every piece of military equipment their battalion possessed. We reported in April 2005 that we had names showing which soldiers signed out AK ammunition and then returned differing ammunition. (This differing ammo was made during the time of Saddam and is readily available on the market; most of it does not work.) We also had six Iraqi witnesses working in the Iraqi arms room who observed the fraud. My superior officers weren’t interested. In addition, every month the Iraqi army leadership and our cell agreed to a list of items mutually decided to be essential. However, the end of the month’s expenditures routinely included space heaters for the Iraqi army leadership’s quarters, satellite television for the officers only, and new furniture for the officers, to name just a few items. And trips down to the Iraqi army compound in the wee hours of the morning resulted in all kinds of discoveries. Sometimes I saw Iraqi soldiers sucking gas out of the tanks of the trucks to sell. Another time, I saw two Iraqi soldiers painting a tan Iraqi military truck white in an attempt to sell it on the open market. We were told to “tolerate a certain amount of graft.” Not surprisingly, I never received an accurate vehicle count from the Iraqi army. Each month, I counted the vehicles that the Iraqi army owned, a number that never matched the figures given to me by the Iraqi battalion. To make matters worse, after I turned in the number that I had counted, I would often find my figures altered after brigade released their own report. In April 2005, I documented the fraud in an e-mail. Two days later, I was confronted by two superior officers and told that my reports would no longer be needed. If I doubted that the Iraqis were any more committed than my own superiors to outfitting and training their army, the answer came after a long presentation to the Iraqi army battalion’s executive officer, offering suggestions on his logistics operational plan. I concluded by asking what he thought. “My plan is that you should care for all of our logistical needs,” he said. “Why?” I asked. The Iraqi executive officer replied, “You broke our country. Now, you fix it.” The essence of a failed policy did not get any clearer than that. * * * From October 2004 to June 2005, the prevailing attitude of our battalion—including my own at first—was that the Iraqis were incapable of conducting operations independently. However, after speaking with locals and Iraqi army officers, I reached a different conclusion. The locals asked me why Iraqis were not doing more on missions. Iraqi officers told me that they conducted company-level operations on their own nearly a year prior to our arrival. Did our higher command know and simply not choose to use this information? Or was it a ploy to prolong a state of perpetual war? I decided to test the theory. In March 2005, I began to send Iraqis out on missions into Mosul, usually unbeknownst to my battalion, and found them capable of conducting missions on their own except when they were hampered by our military values and horrible perception of the local area. When I sent Iraqis out alone, they found evidence and insurgents that we never were able to, though they were none too careful about complying with the Geneva Conventions. Once battalion discovered these missions, they quickly reeled them, and me, in. All Iraqi missions would thereafter be dictated by our U.S. battalion, and I would make sure that the Iraqis performed these missions in the exact manner in which they were dictated. During the last week of March, I relayed this new strategy to the Iraqi battalion commander and his underlings. They asked to speak with my battalion commander, but he refused and dismissed the matter, reminding me that all parties would comply with his wishes. Two days later, I argued with two Iraqi officers, who up until then had been my friends. One said that the only reason they would go to an area they knew to be heavily laden with IED ambushes was that they respected me. That respect was shattered less than an hour later when an IED wounded four of their soldiers. Although I rushed them to the hospital and they lived, the respect I worked for five months to earn vanished. From that point on, my time with the Iraqis was much more difficult. Our relationships with the locals fared no better. Our line companies spent nearly every waking minute on patrol. The nightly door-kicks on residents’ homes proved excellent recruiting tools for local terrorists. I recall several occasions of having to kick in doors to take cover only to hear screaming locals. Moreover, due to the high frequency of our line companies prowling the city, the Iraqi army and our cell working with them took a very distant backseat in priority. If we needed to discuss a problem with our battalion commander, he was in the city on patrol. If our goal was to turn the city over to the Iraqis, so we could leave, why was he out all the time without the Iraqis? At the very least, if the Iraqis stirred up a hornet’s nest among the local people, it’s their own nest. * * * Though force structure was problematic, training inefficient, logistical support nonexistent, and combat operations illogical, by far the most personally frustrating factor in fulfilling my assignment was the ocean of financial corruption. Our government has tolerated a systematic culture of “spend to win” that fattens the pockets of the few and accomplishes little. Each month, along with our cell’s master sergeant, I handed a minimum payment of $100,000 to the Iraqi army battalion. $50,000 covered their monthly operational budget—facilities upgrades, maintenance parts, etc. The other $50,000 went toward the battalion’s subsistence budget, which allowed each soldier $90 a month for food. The problem was that the Iraqis said they had 556 soldiers, and we never counted more than 350 at any given time. Yet we were ordered to pay on the basis of the numbers they declared, with the remainder going directly into the Iraqi leadership’s pockets. The operational budget proved to be an even worse disaster. Each month we handed over $50,000, yet no money was ever spent on tools for the mechanics, no improvements were made to the buildings, no new vehicles were ever purchased. So why did we continue to give $50,000 each month? The Iraqi army officers would not perform for anything less. We were bribing them to keep up the appearance of a workable fighting force. Our receipts for these transactions were cleared back through the comptrollers who tracked what U.S. battalions were spending. When it was learned that we were spending $100,000 a month, we were told that we were not spending enough and were accused of not supporting the mission. The message was clear: the more money we gave the Iraqis, the greater chance of keeping the Iraqi unit together. We also had a projects account for spending money on the Iraqis. After the theft of the uniform payment of $20,000, we only used this system two more times. Both resulted in complete failure. In December 2004, we negotiated a contract for 15 Toyota 4x4 pick-up trucks. All were to be no older than 2000, and the price of each was $11,000, making the total contract value $165,000. We traveled to Dahuk to make this transaction, but a 1994 model was the newest truck before us. Many of the others were badly damaged and barely running. We called off the deal and in turn angered the Iraqi army battalion’s leadership, which had recommended the vendor. In February 2005, desperate to initiate some progress on new barracks on the Iraqi army battalion compound, we again enlisted the help of the Iraqi army to find a contractor. But the deal fell flat after the he refused anything less than 40 percent of the total price quote for the buildings up front. By our rules, we could not surrender such a sum. (After the failed sale, we returned the funds and were asked by the comptroller if we were sure we wanted to return this money.) Meanwhile, U.S. Army Civil Affairs began to compensate Iraqi army soldiers for damages incurred by “terrorist” attacks. On one occasion, two Iraqi brothers who were junior officers in our battalion stated that someone burned down their house and shot up their car. They were paid even after we told Civil Affairs that several Iraqi soldiers told us that these men inflicted the destruction themselves. Civil Affairs did not ride out to the site, they merely took the brothers’ photos of the damage at face value. They also rewarded any Iraqi for information concerning insurgents. One soldier brought information on compact discs that he explained was terrorist intelligence. The CDs did show insurgent propaganda but could be purchased at many different marketplaces in Mosul and served no purpose other than general propaganda. Yet Civil Affairs paid off this soldier. We alerted our battalion leadership to all of this, and some of the information was sent up to brigade, but that was as far as the inquiry ever went. The system was set up so that we could not physically account for the money without breaking the rules. * * * I returned home in September 2005, grateful and safe, but stripped of the illusions I had taken with me. My experience proved that contrary to countless official pronouncements, the Bush administration has no interest in the Iraqi army training program. We were fighting a war to establish permanent bases in Iraq to better manipulate the flow of Middle East oil. For if this war was about human rights, why were we not in Rwanda? If our mission was about bringing democracy to a region, then why were we not in Cuba? And if the intelligence leading up to this war was merely faulty, why was no one fired? I believed in my mission, and I wanted the Iraqis I was training to run their own country. But this wasn’t an American priority, and I left Mosul feeling that my efforts were either erased or ignored. That’s not to say that the men who died in Iraq died for nothing. They were doing their jobs. But the Bush administration disgraces their memories by stating that our only option is to prolong a losing policy. If I learned anything from the lessons I was charged with teaching, it’s that a good military leader examines costs and benefits and adjusts his course accordingly. Yet this administration refuses to learn from its mistakes, level with the soldiers fighting its war, and bring the sad American chapter called Iraq to a close. Joe W. Guthrie served three years in the U.S. Army as an Infantry officer and was honorably discharged in December 2005. He now works as a PE teacher and coach at a private school in Florida.
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#9. To: A K A Stone (#6)
60 Minutes: CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 Tonight on 60 Minutes, Tyler Drumheller, the former chief of the CIA’s Europe division, revealed that in the fall of 2002, President Bush, Vice President Cheney, then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and others were told by CIA Director George Tenet that Iraq’s foreign minister — who agreed to act as a spy for the United States — had reported that Iraq had no active weapons of mass destruction program. Watch it: BRADLEY: According to Drumheller, CIA Director George Tenet delivered the news about the Iraqi foreign minister at a high level meeting at the White House. DRUMHELLER: The President, the Vice President, Dr. Rice… BRADLEY: And at that meeting…? DRUMHELLER: They were enthusiastic because they said they were excited that we had a high-level penetration of Iraqis. BRADLEY: And what did this high level source tell you? DRUMHELLER: He told us that they had no active weapons of mass destruction program. BRADLEY: So, in the fall of 2002, before going to war, we had it on good authority from a source within Saddam’s inner circle that he didn’t have an active program for weapons of mass destruction? DRUMHELLER: Yes. BRADLEY: There’s no doubt in your mind about that? DRUMHELLER: No doubt in my mind at all. BRADLEY: It directly contradicts, though, what the President and his staff were telling us. DRUMHELLER: The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy. Read the full transcript HERE. UPDATE: More at CBS News. Filed under: Iraq, Intelligence, Administration Posted by Nico April 23, 2006 8:26 pm Permalink | Comment (178) 178 Comments » The URI to TrackBack this entry is: http://thinkprogress.org/ 2006/ 04/ 23/ 60-minutes-cia-official-reveals-bush- cheney-rice-were-personally-told-iraq-had-no-wmd-in-fall-2002/ trackback/ What absolute Bastahds! I wrote a piece on the Real Military (IOW - Enlisted Military)’s take on Don Rumsfeld if anyone’s interested. I spent much of last week with dozens of friends on active duty who’ve recently returned from Iraq and Afghanistan tours. Have a look. Troops love the smell of fresh Bullshit in the morning… -Nate Comment by Nate — April 23, 2006 @ 8:30 pm Now this is the CBS of ‘Good Night and Good Luck’ legend! It was an excellent piece that connected all of the dots. If this isn’t the final nail in Bush’s coffin, then I really don’t know what will be. Comment by unbelievable — April 23, 2006 @ 8:34 pm Even my self-professed “Hardcore Republican” friends who are currently serving active duty–several of whom recently returned from one or more tour(s) of duty in either Iraq and/or Afghanistan–spit scorn and drip contempt in every conversation where this assholes’ name is mentioned. References to him always involve colorful language and often include interesting scenarios consisting primarily of some quality “alone” time in a locked room with him. Nate, I gotta think no one really wants to piss of the military… and yet the three stooges in Washington don’t seem to care at all. Good to hear the soldiers aren’t falling for their lies anymore either. We’re gonna need them on our side when Bush tried to declare a police state next year. Comment by unbelievable — April 23, 2006 @ 8:37 pm Can we impeach them all now? PLEASE. These A-Clowns have given terrorists a reason to hate us: We invaded for a bogus reason. The least we can do is show the iraq government that in a democracy we hold our leaders responsible for their actions. But no. Not with this republican congress. They don’t give a shit about what are actions show the world. Comment by Colorado Jyms — April 23, 2006 @ 8:38 pm As great as this is, some other kind of breaking news story will find its way to dominate tomorrow’s major networks, maybe some ivy league chess team will be accused of drug running to keep an underground monopoly on college gambling and prostitution. Comment by Silly Little American Boy — April 23, 2006 @ 8:42 pm One subpoena. Just give me one subpoena. Comment by chisholm — April 23, 2006 @ 8:42 pm They don’t give a shit about what are actions show the world. Comment by Colorado Jyms — April 23, 2006 @ 8:38 pm Because we’ve let them get away with it, and I won’t be surprised in November if they keep their jobs. Things are bad, but not yet bad enough for some to start a Revolution of ballots. Comment by unbelievable — April 23, 2006 @ 8:43 pm Let the coup d’etat begin… Comment by Anonymous — April 23, 2006 @ 8:52 pm Comment by unbelievable — April 23, 2006 @ 8:37 pm Thanks for the read unbelievable… I was actually surprised by the level of vitriol coming from these guys. So many of them were so Gung Ho about heading to Iraq just two short years ago. Their morale was extremely high and for the most part, they had great faith in Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld. Man the vehemence and venom that laced their conversations about these guys was startling. I’ll be if there was a way to do a true poll of active duty military about this administration… The results would stun a stampeding hoarde of neocons into silence and stillness. Comment by Nate — April 23, 2006 @ 9:00 pm This interview on CBS with Bradely and Drumheller was well done and could be easily followed so that even the dullest of the 33% that still support the DOLT in the White house could follow it. Bush got away with his ineptness and incompetence prior to and on 9/11. He followed that with his inability to capture bin Laden. He then lied as indicated in the interview about yellow cake and WMDs, resulting in a preemptive invasion of a country that did us no harm but was a target of the PNAC. The lie has escalated into the killing field and money pit of Iraq. The American people are aiding and abetting malfeasance and misfeasance in the highest office in the land each day he is in office. Three(3) more years remain in his term to continue the mischief. His arrogance, cockiness and incompetence are more than a person can endure. The mischief borders on the criminal. Comment by Nova16 — April 23, 2006 @ 9:07 pm Nova,you were rolling along nicely until you got to the part about the American people aiding and abetting. Setting aside the likelihood you are a part of that noble body politic,the only aiding and abetting being done is that associated with having to live with the consequences as well as the benefits of the republic in which we live. Your arrogance,cockiness and incompetence in the accusations you hurl so carelessly is shocking. Too bad because you had every other trite phrasing from the codebook neatly arranged. Comment by TJM — April 23, 2006 @ 9:16 pm As interesting as it is, you can’t bring down a Faith Based administration with facts. I’m sure Rove has faxed Rumball, O’Really, etc with talking points to question the CIA guy’s character. Hell, they’re experts at it. A million former CIA agents can claim this and Bush will just keep on grinin’ Comment by AB Hoffman — April 23, 2006 @ 9:17 pm Nah, SLAB, not a chess club. They’ll use the old standby. Release another Bin Laden tape!: It’s hard not to be a conspiracy theorist these days when the conspiracy theory fits so easily into reality. Comment by SuperEdo — April 23, 2006 @ 9:19 pm Drumheller will be smeared soon, GOP talking points on the way! Comment by TexasPatriot — April 23, 2006 @ 9:25 pm If I may say, this is confusing. If Tenent told the administration that there was no active WMD program in Iraq, does this not contradict his claim that the reason to go to war in Iraq was because the intelligence connected to Iraq was a “slam dunk”? Which one of Tenent’s assertions is to be believed? Comment by Erroll — April 23, 2006 @ 9:27 pm DRUMHELLER: The group that was dealing with preparations for the Iraq war came back and said they’re no longer interested. And we said, “Well, what about the intel?” And they said, “Well, this isn’t about intel anymore. This is about regime change.” Excerpt from the Downingstreet Memo: “C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.” And from the United Nations Charter: Charter of the United Nations We the Peoples of the United Nations… United for a Better World PREAMBLE WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom, AND FOR THESE ENDS to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples, HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations. … Article 2 The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles. 1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members. 2. All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter. 3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered. 4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations. I submit that as a member State of the United Nations we are bound by its Charter. (United States Constitution, Article VI. … This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land) I submit that to initiate a war of aggression for regime change violates Article 2, Section 4 of the United Nations Charter. In the past, I have asked I-Right-I and Mighty Aphrodite (who claims to be an attorney) to make their case justifying Bush’s war, citing relevant international treaties, charters and conventions. So far, they have refused to do so. I present the above documents to demonstrate why I think Bush’s war constitutes an international war crime. Can anyone present a reasoned counter-argument? Comment by Briseadh na Faire — April 23, 2006 @ 9:27 pm See Josh Marshall for details of his conversation with Drumheller regarding the 60-Minutes interview. Comment by Linkmeister — April 23, 2006 @ 9:30 pm Bush does not CARE about ANY laws, this is what will bring him down. Comment by wisedup — April 23, 2006 @ 9:33 pm All those who believed and supported Bush on going to war in Iraq should take a line from a Toby Keith song ” How Do You Like Me Now?” and answer the question. Comment by Jim — April 23, 2006 @ 9:35 pm TJM-The benefits that I enjoy in no way are associated with the failed policies and programs of the inept administraton and the corrupt republicans in congress. As a matter of fact most Americans have come to realize that they have been duped and deceived by this administration and have no confidence in it and know that this country has been and continues to go in the wrong direction. Anyone who supports this duplicitous cabal in Washington is either delusional or looking for profit. Which one are you? Comment by Nova16 — April 23, 2006 @ 9:35 pm Another smoking gun. How many more do we need before we as patriotic American’s gather at the gates of the White House and demand that these criminals step down and be prosicuted for their crimes? Join the march in New York for Peace April 29. Comment by Hardy Haberman — April 23, 2006 @ 9:39 pm TJM (#11): Nova,you were rolling along nicely until you got to the part about the American people aiding and abetting. Comment by TJM — April 23, 2006 @ 9:16 pm In a way, Nova is right. The American people re-elected Bush. He received some 62 million votes. In a way, every day we go to work, come home, watch tv, we aid and abet this Administration. Every day we do not take to the streets and demand accountability and an end to the bloodshed, we aid and abet this Administration. Our silence is our acquiesence. The Administration is counting on us to be complacent. Could you imagine the impact if, for just one day, every man, woman and child in America took to the streets to protest this war? Yea, I agree with Nova…the American people are aiding and abetting this Administration. Comment by Briseadh na Faire — April 23, 2006 @ 9:43 pm Watch these sick fks roll out the “Swift Boat” team on this brave American. Guy deserves the Citizen’s Medal of Freedom. The Sht is far too deep now for Bush Jr though.. I fear he will attack Iraq in some desperate moment of madness trying to regain his lost glory. Chimp’s gonna start WWIII and set the world on fire. 90 to 33% in the polls and falling like a rock — an olympic skier wouldn’t go down that slope. What did we ever do to deserve these azzholes. Comment by Bubba Blastn — April 23, 2006 @ 9:47 pm 24 - we voted for them…or at least a substantial number of us did. Comment by Briseadh na Faire — April 23, 2006 @ 9:54 pm This is old news. The world is going to care now that it’s on TV? How Reaganesque! Comment by liberal elite — April 23, 2006 @ 9:56 pm Now it explains why the Osama tape was released this morning. I hope that people remember that next Saturday there is a march in New York. The students at Standord stopped the president. Dissent is Patriotic! Comment by Lizzy — April 23, 2006 @ 10:00 pm I believe the key word to focus on here is criminal Comment by charles — April 23, 2006 @ 10:00 pm Is this the integrity Bush said he was going to bring? Will we see accountability? Comment by Jack — April 23, 2006 @ 10:01 pm #2 I agree. This is what CBS News was supposed to be about. 60 Minutes is the only part of CBS news left that’s worth trusting. Edward R. Murrow would be proud that at least, there is a journalist that can expose the truth on politcal corruption and that he can still get the truth from someone who truly knows. Maybe Katie can take some lessons from Ed Bradley on how to ask tough questions. Comment by JIMBO — April 23, 2006 @ 10:02 pm “Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear — kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervour — with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not rally behind it.” ~ Douglas MacArthur, 1957, WW II general Comment by one eye buck tooth [X^B — April 23, 2006 @ 10:03 pm “Sometimes when I sleep at night I think of ‘Hop on Pop’.” ~ George W. Bush, speaking on educating children, 2002-04-02 “I believe that, as quickly as possible, young cows ought to be allowed go across our border.” ~ George W. Bush, Ottawa, 2004-11-30 “The idea of putting subliminable messages into ads is ridiculous.” ~ George W. Bush “I don’t think we need to be subliminable about the differences between our views on prescription drugs.” ~ George W. Bush Orlando Florida, 2000-09-12 “Lacerates ran down my cheeks.” ~ George W. Bush (trying to sound grand with a Thesaurus on an Andover essay). “Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?” ~ George W. Bush “Sometimes when I sleep at night I think of ’Hop on Pop’.” ~ George W. Bush “In 1994, there were 67 schools in Texas that were rated exemplorary [sic] according to our own tests.” ~ George W. Bush “The question is, how many hands have I shaked.” ~ George W. Bush “What is [sic] your ambitions?” ~ George W. Bush speaking at the Parkview Arts and Science Magnet School Source: Federal News Service, Remarks by President George W. Bush at a Back-to-School Event, 2002-08- 29 “The California crunch really is the result of not enough power to power the power of generating plants.” ~ George W. Bush, 2000-09-15 “Will the highways on the Internet become more few?” ~ George W. Bush “And out of the evil done to America is going to come a more peaceful world, and a more better America…” ~ George W. Bush Source: FDCH Political Transcripts, George W. Bush Participates in Welcome Ceremony, 2002-10-22 “Do you have blacks, too?” ~ George W. Bush speaking to Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso. Source: Reported 2002-04-28 by columnist Fernando Pedreira (and friend of the Brazilian president) of the Estado Sao Paulo in an article titled An Overwhelming Ignorance. Also cited by The Washington Post and der Spiegel, 2001-11-08 “I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family.” ~ George W. Bush “We ought to make the pie higher.” ~ George W. Bush “Some communities, you say, ‘Hey, American dream,’ and they go, ‘What does that mean?’” ~ George W. Bush Comment by one eye buck tooth [X^B — April 23, 2006 @ 10:06 pm If Bush got 62 million votes, I’m St. Patrick. Folks, it doesn’t take believing in a “vast right wing conspiracy” to know that Diebold backed Bush to the hilt — and they programmed the voting machines in every swing state! Ask any literate computer geek, especially those involved in the electronic voting business. Not only is it easy to change vote tallies before the fact — it’s virtually untraceable! Comment by dalloway — April 23, 2006 @ 10:09 pm Nova- I agree. I think that what happened in 2004 was not just the stupid Diebold machines. A percentage of the public believed the fear that if Kerry won, we’d die. Also, people in think tanks like Frank Luntz, who never revealed that he was partisan until it was too late, tend to influence people by focusing on performance and manipulating others into not being impressed enough to gaurantee someone who has the right idea the vote. We have Bush and if he launches WW3 in Iran, we certainly will die. And the last words on our lips will be in that line from the film “The Hunt For Red October”: “You arrogant ass. You killed us.” Bush is an arrogant ass and will kill us. Comment by JIMBO — April 23, 2006 @ 10:11 pm Bordering on criminal? Is that a joke? All of these lying traitors should be arrested, taken out of the “white House” and Put on trial for treason and Crimes against Humanity. Then a Representative of this country should go to the UN and apoligize to the World Saying that the presidential vote was corrupted (which it was) by these criminals and their cronies, that the Amerian People never elected this group of traitors, and that they do Not represent the people of the United States, or the will of the people of the United States. If this was done, I feel we would see a 180 degree shift from the people of the world, they would no longer hate the USA and would probably forgive the horrible things that have been done by these criminals. Then the US would again have the respect and admiration of the people of the world, and would be the Beacon of Freedom and Hope for the world that it has always been. Comment by rockcrx — April 23, 2006 @ 10:12 pm Amazing! 60 minutes here in Washington State is scrambled….what’s with that. I can’t wait to see when we get a good broadcast back. Comment by Left coast Mike — April 23, 2006 @ 10:13 pm The Bush Regime members are all liars, so nothing surprises me anymore! They all need to be sent to Siberia and never allowed to return! Comment by Jay Randal — April 23, 2006 @ 10:14 pm […] The CIA Director told Bush and Cheney of evidence of no WMD: Tonight on 60 Minutes, Tyler Drumheller, the former chief of the CIA’s Europe division, revealed that in the fall of 2002, President Bush, Vice President Cheney, then- National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and others were told by CIA Director George Tenet that Iraq’s foreign minister — who agreed to act as a spy for the United States — had reported that Iraq had no active weapons of mass destruction program. […] Pingback by SpeakSpeak News — April 23, 2006 @ 10:16 pm Erroll: Both Tenet and Colin Powell were forced to bite the bullet and support the big lie about WMDs or suffer the wrath of Cheney/Bush. It is unfortunate that they were aware of the lie, but failed to convey the truth, probably similar to the retired military officers criticizing Rumsfeld and Bush for the misconduct of the debacle in Iraq. They would not criticize while on duty for obvious reasons. Comment by Nova16 — April 23, 2006 @ 10:17 pm Another bent nail. This coffin will just not close. Comment by Dan — April 23, 2006 @ 10:17 pm This group of criminals will not have to fear any action from Americans as long as they control congress. Congressional repubs will protect bushco from ANY serious investigation or even questions. Why do you think Rove has been assigned to continue the repub control of congress in November? They need single party protection to continue their criminal ways. Comment by Southwest Bob — April 23, 2006 @ 10:18 pm #16 BnF There is no counter-argument. BTW, am I right in thinking you are in the legal field? Your arguments are always well written. As for the compelling CBS segment — we did not hear anything we didn’t already know did we? Over and over we hear the truthas it is squeezed out of the bag of lies in the White House, but nothing really changes, and nothing will change. At least not in the foreseeable future. The best we can hope for is that the Dems take over the Congress in eight months and Bush can’t accomplish anything in the next 1000 days. The loco cowboy-in-chief will never resign. In his desperate last days, what outrageous, illegal, unethical and immoral acts will he commit? He is already planning his bombing of Iran; and he will act whether or not he has permission from Congress or the UN — but after he does it - we have to deal with it. Comment by Marie — April 23, 2006 @ 10:18 pm […] Think Progress: 60 Minutes: CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 […] Pingback by http://tinylittledots.com •••• tiny little dots ••• and other points of interest » Blog Archive » Think Progress: 60 Minutes: CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 — April 23, 2006 @ 10:20 pm IMPEACH THEM NOW!!! When will there be enough evidence? When will America wake the Hell up? We need to take our Country back before this LUNATIC sets into motion his “ultimate resolution” and blows us all up! Comment by trueblue — April 23, 2006 @ 10:21 pm #33 Dalloway It is my greatest fear that the Rethugs will steal the upcoming elections with their rigged, paperless voting machines, and other unethical practices that disenfranchise and otherwise discourage voters. I am an election judge and I saw my own county slip in the Diebold machines last month over the outrage from Democrats and others who have read of the history of Diebold and Sequoia. My husband was a poll watcher and heard many lies that Repub. judges were telling voters extolling the “virtues” of the electronic machines. As I went to vote, I was publicly ridiculed by a Repub. judge because I dared to ask for a paper ballot. I think this is only the beginning of how they will steal the election because they know they can’t win it legally. Comment by Marie — April 23, 2006 @ 10:28 pm Come on America’s citizens, George W. Bush needs to be brought to book for his incompetence and the lies he and his cronies have disseminated to justify his administrations invasion of Iraq. While this new piece of evidence is damning in showing that Bush had an agenda, and nothing was going to stop Bush from invading Iraq. What Tyler Drumheller has disclosed to 60 Minutes is hardly earth-shattering is it. It’s just another piece of the incriminating jig-saw which fits nicely into the whole Neo-con picture, which is starting to take shape, and from which people can make out what Bush and his cohorts have been up to over the last four and a half years. Though this story is infuriating to those who wonder how Bush gets away with what he does, it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody that this went on before the invasion of Iraq. There have been a number of stories and leaks, which have substantiated that the Iraq invasion was pre-conceived, and no amount of intelligence that contradicted their indoctrinated beliefs that Iraq was a danger to the US with their WMD’s was going to stop the invasion. After-all George W. Bush is the ‘Great Decider’ or should that be the ’Great Deceiver’. When your inner sanctum is full of the type people with the characters that Bush relies on to tell him how to do his job, then what does anybody expect from the President. This forum is great for people to meet and discuss the topics that are raised everyday on Think Progress. But more needs to be done with stories like this particular one, if you want to see your hard work come to fruition in ousting George W. Bush from the White House, along with any other of his cronies who have blood on their hands, from George W. Bush’s futile ‘War On Terror’. Good-luck to all of you, keep up the good work. Abraham Lincoln Speech: The Gettysburg Address Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that “all men are created equal” Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of it, as a final resting place for those who died here, that the nation might live. This we may, in all propriety do. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate — we can not consecrate — we can not hallow, this ground– The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have hallowed it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here; while it can never forget what they did here. It is rather for us, the living, to stand here, we here be dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that, from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here, gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain; that the nation, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people by the people for the people, shall not perish from the earth. Two Of Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill’s Quotes: Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened. Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. Comment by Nick Caine — April 23, 2006 @ 10:31 pm Well keep in mind that the people also voted for all 435 Representative but 133 of those Representatives voted against the AUMF. If the administration lied us into war,how was it that Reps like John Murtha got re-elected despite voting for the war? How is it that Harry Reid is the Dem leader in the Senate,yet he,too,voted for the war? Or Kerry or Kennedy? The people voted them back in also. What people are you talking about? It’s not enough to be against the Pres. if you’re going to support the true aiders and abetters,Congress. My Rep (a Dem) voted against the AUMF and so I gladly crossed party lines (party isn’t everything) with support for him and will again in Nov. Would you vote for Reid,knowing that his lack of judgment as to the AUMF shows his true nature? Why would you want Senate leadership from someone like that? It’s politicians like Murtha who would be more credible if he had resigned when he announced his opposition to the war. Instead,he runs again and wins as he will in Nov. It’s “heroes” like Joe Wilson who took 6 months to write an op-ed after the SOTU. What was he waiting for? But,no,he is a hero for revealing (what numerous others had already revealed) 4 months after the invasion that the justification (well one piece) was unfounded,some hero. When you get your house to look like a house instead of the political hovel the Democratic party occupies currently,with real leaders instead of the spineless snakes you have now,all this talk of “aiding and abetting” is just hot keystrokes. Comment by TJM — April 23, 2006 @ 10:35 pm Iraqi foreign minister, Hans Blix many other people were saying the same thing about the Iraq WMD programs. 60 Mins could maybe do a segmant showing all of the people and the information they provided and the WH response to them. Comment by koalablue — April 23, 2006 @ 10:36 pm #46. If the the administration lied us into war,how was it that Reps like John Murtha got re-elected despite voting for the war? How is it that Harry Reid is the Dem leader in the Senate,yet he,too,voted for the war? Or Kerry or Kennedy? The people voted them back in also. Surely you have heard of gerrymandered districts. Nearly all House seats are safe for the incumbant, thanks to redistricting following the census every 10 years. Or sooner, if Delay gets his way, which he did in Texas. Now, throw electronic voting machines supplied by a Republican businessman into the mix and who knows, maybe the Republicans will make a clean sweep of it in ‘06. Must be something wrong with the exit polls…………… Comment by Briseadh na Faire — April 23, 2006 @ 10:41 pm I blame the Democrats for their cowardice. It was clear a long time ago that the Bush team were liars, dangerous America destroying scumbags + obvious lawbreakers. The constitution designed a system of checks and balances - legislative, administration, and supreme court. It is the duty of Congress to do oversight on the administration - even a very partisan Nixon congress took the responsibility seriously. This congress has done ZERO hearings or oversight of this admin. A handful of Dems pulling together could have stopped all business in congress and demanded sworn hearings a long time ago. I bet with the news generated it would have only taken 3 or 4 days —WHICH ISN’T SHT ! AND WOULD HAVE CAUSED ZERO HARM. What have we done to deserve this devolvement into a useless pathetic pack of absolute cowards. IT MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM. I get these stupid fund raisers left and right from the democratic party and I want to jam it up their kester. Whatever happened to bravery and guts — does Joe Sixpack have to take to the streets for revolution. DNC DON’T SEND ME ANYMORE STUFF TILL YOU GROW SOME BALLS - YOU ARE AS RESPONSIBLE OR MORE RESPONSIBLE THEN THE CHIMP FOR DESTROYING AMERICA Comment by Bubba Blastn More — April 23, 2006 @ 10:42 pm TJM most of the congress voted for the AUMF based on cherry picked intell and the PROMISE that Bush would get a SECOND UN resolution before invading….only Bush knew at the time he WAS NOT going to keep his word…and he was mis-stating the intell….the intell that Bush hid was what congress needed….and that is the reason Bush hid the intell, because if congress had that intell Bush knew he wouldn’t get His “authorisation” which he intended the subvert. Comment by Clif — April 23, 2006 @ 10:43 pm Impeach the traitors and then bring them to court . Comment by Leoger — April 23, 2006 @ 10:44 pm TJM most of the congress voted for the AUMF based on cherry picked intell and the PROMISE that Bush would get a SECOND UN resolution before invading….only Bush knew at the time he WAS NOT going to keep his word…and he was mis-stating the intell….the intell that Bush hid was what congress needed….and that is the reason Bush hid the intell, because if congress had that intell Bush knew he wouldn’t get His “authorisation” which he intended the subvert. Stop being SOOOOO dishonest…you sound like Bush….. Comment by Clif — April 23, 2006 @ 10:45 pm The way for Americans to stop aiding and abetting is to stand up on their hind legs and get in their elected representative’s face and DEMAND impeachment and subsequent indictment of the asshole Bush. The sooner these clown are ousted, the sooner the healing can begin. If the Republicans still had any fucntioning brain tissue after years of drinking the Kool-Aid - they’d know that the only way to save their precious GOP is to get out front on impeachment. If they want to distance themselves from Dubbya - that’s the express lane. Comment by robert lewis — April 23, 2006 @ 10:47 pm Sure. The liberals in the liberal media on the the liberal show never bother to ask him if he ever donated money to a Democrat or if he ever voted for a Democrat. [/restupidlican] Comment by hadenough — April 23, 2006 @ 10:54 pm #54 yo moron the truth ain’t democratic or republican….and that is where the neo-cons have failed, they think the truth is what they say it is…… Comment by Clif — April 23, 2006 @ 10:59 pm I’m tired of these guys coming forward now. Where the hell were they four years ago when avoiding an invasion was possible? Comment by Lesly — April 23, 2006 @ 11:00 pm Nico - What did our high level spy say about inactivated WMD’s in Iraq?? Or was the spy referred to on 60 Seconds concentrating only on active WMD’s? Our intelligence was compromised because of…could it be the Frank Church Commission?? Churches dismantling of viable intelligence operations borders on the treasonous. But allow me to commend you, Nico, on fine word parsing and reporting….you should look into a part time gig at CBS - they are SO “fair and balanced”. Good night! Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 23, 2006 @ 11:01 pm No American wants to believe the President lied. Well how many facts and people have to tell the truth before Americans realize Bush has lied and is still lying. Bush/Cheney/Rove have really done a job on good Americans to make them believe Saddam had WMD when on TV we saw the weapons with USA written on them and they were so old they would fall apart. No one wants to admit they’ve been played for a fool but we should get use to it. The other countries knew Bush was lying notice how many countries join in the invasion. Only the small countries that we paid were involved. Blair will be gone in Dec. and England will not trust us again while Bush is in office. So for all those fools that still say Bush is telling the truth remember when you put gas in your car at $5.00 per gallon that Bush said Iraq would help lower our gas bills. Now he wants to invade Iran next the Saudi’s and then all of the middle east. Dumb people can be fooled all the time I guess the United States is an example of that even with the truth out Americans believe the liar. Comment by Jackie Rawlings — April 23, 2006 @ 11:05 pm MA if you actually knew anything about WMD’s you’d know they have a shelf life, and must be updated or rebuilt, there are NO inactivated WMD’s except those which are being De-milled or inactivated for dismantaling in the case of nukes, chemical agents are burned usually. Unless Iraq had an ongoing program then they would have none because most of their 80’s stockpile were destroyed by the UN inspections in 96-97 after Saddams son-in-law ratted his stocks out….Having worked in the Army with WMD’s I understand that you might not have the expertise given the # of law schools, jobs and children you have had in the 15 years you have been “all-grown-up”(LOL) Comment by Clif — April 23, 2006 @ 11:09 pm This is the best 60 min in a long long time. I’m so relived that the MSM has finally caught up with the rest of us who knew this administration was a pack of liars all along. I thought one of the best parts was when he talked about confronting his relatives that can’t believe that the President would lie about such a serious issue. BELIEVE IT! Don’t be the last on your block to see through this pack of prevaricators. Come with us you Republican come latelys into the world of truth. Comment by Fred Freesqueeze — April 23, 2006 @ 11:11 pm #59 - Thank you for your WMD lesson. It’s not difficult to do what I have done if you have a positive relationaship with God, a wonderful spouse, well-liked and well-behaved children, sleep 4-5 hours a night, great law professors, supportive colleagues, and funny, wonderful brothers, sisters and cousins. Thank you for your service - my active duty brother is delighted you are no longer serving. Good night. Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 23, 2006 @ 11:27 pm the only hope FEINGOLD 2008-2016 these filthy miscreants in the white house are indistinguishable from hitler but for the frigging mustache!!!! Comment by james risser — April 23, 2006 @ 11:36 pm Obviously you do not know me… but you keep making value judgements like your boy george… all made up with no facts……. Comment by Clif — April 23, 2006 @ 11:37 pm Obviously you do not know me… but you keep making value judgements like your boy george… all made up with no facts…….and if your brother who never met me and knows nothing about me but what you tell him he is not a very informed soldier thus must be LOW ranking otherwise he would want more info before makjing a judgement for himself. As a medically retired Officer I never took one persons personal views about another as the whole truth, Comment by Clif — April 23, 2006 @ 11:42 pm For the latest PlameGate and Iraq WMD news, reports, documents, and timelines, see: - “The PlameGate Scandal Resource Center” - “The Iraq WMD Intelligence Center.” Comment by AvengingAngel — April 23, 2006 @ 11:50 pm I’d mentioned the Drumheller story in last night’s Assclowns of the Week. You wouldn’t know it because I was in such a rush to get the post up that I (der) neglected to mention Drumheller’s name. But nothing much will come of this because Drumheller is only corroborating what countless CIA officials and intelligence analysts have been saying for years, now (including Robert Greenwald’s Exposed): That the Bush administration was cherry-picking intelligence to retrofit their prefab notions about Iraq. And to retroactively blame the intelligence community for the intelligence failures that made Iraq possible is not only the height of chutzpah, it’s downright despicable. This sets a dangerous precedent for future administrations who will have a read-made scapegoat for future policy and military failures. Breaking news: How can the Illinois State Legislature initiate impeachment proceedings against Bush? Click on this news article and find out more about this bombshell that’s screaming down toward DC. Comment by jurassicpork — April 23, 2006 @ 11:51 pm yes, as for the illinois impeachment, they are relying on: Section 603 of Jefferson’s Manual. This is not something that silly since the HR rule page list the Manual right along with the other substantive HR rules… In the House of Representatives there are various methods of setting an impeachment in motion: by charges made on the floor on the responsibility of a Member or Delegate (II, 1303; III, 2342, 2400, 2469; VI, 525, 526, 528, 535, 536); by charges preferred by a memorial, which is usually referred to a committee for examination (III, 2364, 2491, 2494, 2496, 2499, 2515; VI, 543); or by a resolution dropped in the hopper by a Member and referred to a committee (Apr. 15, 1970, p. 11941– 42; Oct. 23, 1973, p. 34873); by a message from the President (III, 2294, 2319; VI, 498); by charges transmitted from the legislature of a State (III, 2469) or Territory (III, 2487) or from a grand jury (III, 2488); or from facts developed and reported by an investigating committee of the House (III, 2399, 2444). In the 93d Congress, the Vice President sought to initiate an investigation by the House of charges against him of possibly impeachable offenses; the Speaker and the House took no action on the request since the matter was pending in the courts and the offenses did not relate to activities during the Vice President’s term of office (Sept. 25, 1973, p. 31368); see III, 2510, wherein the Committee on the Judiciary (to which the matter had been referred by privileged resolution) reported that a civil officer (the Vice President) could not be impeached for acts or omissions committed prior to his term of office; but see III, 1736, however, the Vice President’s request that the House investigate charges against his prior offical conduct as Secretary of War was referred, on motion, to a select committee. Should make for a fun monday! peace. Comment by james risser — April 24, 2006 @ 12:07 am Thank you for your service - my active duty brother is delighted you are no longer serving. Good night. Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 23, 2006 @ Just another republican using the troops for cheap partisan reasons. Your brother would probably like a little company, chickenhawk. Enlist, cowardly scum, and take his place if you’re so concerned about his welfare. Comment by barfly — April 24, 2006 @ 12:07 am # I’m tired of these guys coming forward now. Where the hell were they four years ago when avoiding an invasion was possible? Comment by Lesly — April 23, 2006 @ 11:00 pm They saw Joe Wilson gang-raped by Bush, Cheney, Rove and their willing dupes in the media. It is now save to go back to the poolhall and have a drink, now that the drunk gang of rapists is getting run out of town, one by one. Libby, Delay, Wayne Allen, Casino Jack, and more to come. -GSD Comment by GSD — April 24, 2006 @ 12:15 am “Nico - What did our high level spy say about inactivated WMD’s in Iraq?? Mighty Moron” High Level ‘Spy’ - as in SINGULAR? That’s as RETARDED as just about anything you’ve ever said MIGHTY MORON. “Or was the spy referred to on 60 Seconds concentrating only on active WMD’s? Mighty Moron” Which spy was that, the one that was giving intelligence to Israel, or taking it from Israel in order to try to fabricate evidence? “Our intelligence was compromised because of…could it be the Frank Church Commission?? Churches dismantling of viable intelligence operations borders on the treasonous. Mighty Moron” You really are the QUEEN of Non-Sequiturs aren’t you? You consider government oversight of ‘intelligence’ to be a ‘treasonous’ act? Wow, you really are a SOCIOPATH NAZI. If anything the Church Commission basically PROVED that without oversight many of the members of the intelligence community had acting in a fashion that was treasonous to america’s laws, our values, and our ideals. And what exactly did the Church Commission dismantle? It was a commission that issued a REPORT and a REVIEW you IDIOT - it WASN’T LEGISLATION. This is like that stupid charge of yours about the Yacht Tax Economic Collapse that never was - it’s just RETARDED NONSENSE. “But allow me to commend you, Nico, on fine word parsing and reporting….you should look into a part time gig at CBS - they are SO “fair and balanced”. Good night! Mighty Moron” Well you certainly are an expert on word parsing, and ‘reporting your opinion’, unfortunately there’s NOTHING FINE about what you do - it’s all CRUDE, STUPID, IDIOTIC, and TRANSPARENTLY NONSENSE. You’re so STUPID you thought the Church Commission was responsible for dismantling the intelligence services - BAHAHA what a STUPID CHARGE YOU IDIOT!!!! Comment by Ryan Neat — April 24, 2006 @ 12:16 am “Thank you for your WMD lesson. It’s not difficult to do what I have done if you have a positive relationaship with God, Mighty Moron” Really, because all you post is hate, ridicule, and sociopathic nonsense. Most people would question how someone who’s clinically insane such as yourself has a positive relationship with anyone - especially ‘god’. “a wonderful spouse, Mighty Moron” Who based on your posts sounds like a surreal lapdog - obviously how you see your potential role with your drag alter ego. “well-liked and well-behaved children, - Mighty Moron” You’ve constantly complained about having to DISCIPLINE your children for not behaving, and have even talked about your practive of BEATING them when they don’t behave. Sorry, but you’re lying again. “sleep 4-5 hours a night - Mighty Moron” Another symptom of a probable secondary neurological or mood disorder. “, great law professors, - Mighty Moron” Really, because you’ve constantly bitched about how stupid your professors were. “supportive colleagues, - Mighty Moron” Last week you complained about all of the useless and lazy progs at your work - and ironically you’d crowed last fall about OWNING your business with your husband. You really can’t keep your LIES straight can you? I guess that just makes you a STUPID SOCIOPATH. “and funny, wonderful brothers, sisters and cousins. Mighty Moron” And yet you complain about having to often ‘educate’ members of your family who aren’t as ‘bright’ as you are. When you feel like you’d like to show us your intelligence sometime - please do so. So far what you’ve shown is a huge embarrassment for you - and it’s no wonder you lie daily about your identity. If I were you, I’d be embarrassed to admit who I was as well. You’re just another BORING, STUPID troll, spouting stereotypes, talking points, and RIDICULOUS framing language of NONSENSE AND AMBIGUITY. You’re just a DUMB PROPAGANDIST - and THAT’S BORING!!! ZZZzzzzz Thank you for your service - my active duty brother is delighted you are no longer serving. Good night. Comment by mighty aphrodite Comment by Ryan Neat — April 24, 2006 @ 12:26 am […] 60 Minutes: CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 […] Pingback by NCN News Today » CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 — April 24, 2006 @ 12:27 am The real issue is not the Administration but the very powerful MEDIA, i expect politician to lie, cheat and steal if the ABC’s NBC’s and CBS turn the other cheek…. finally the worst president in human history is being caught … time will tell Comment by Yas — April 24, 2006 @ 12:31 am But allow me to commend you, Nico, on fine word parsing and reporting….you should look into a part time gig at CBS - they are SO “fair and balanced”. Good night! Mighty Moron” And thanks for demonstrating that you really believe Fox news is propaganda - why else would you use “fair and balanced”, the trademarked signature line for Fox, to refer sarcastically to CBS? It is only sarcasm if you think “fair and balanced” is bullshit, just like the rest of us. Careful, or we’ll start to think you’re a closet liberal; which wouldn’t really come as a surprise, seeing that most republicans are social deviants. Comment by barfly — April 24, 2006 @ 12:37 am #41 Marie, I am not yet in the legal field, but I do thank you for your compliment. I graduate this May with a Juris Doctor degree. I have studied a fair amount of International Law, enough to be sickened by what my country is doing, all in the name of freedom and democracy. I notice Mighty Aphrodite hasn’t stepped up to the challenge to actually defend her Commander in Chief against charges of International War Crimes. And she claims to be a Defense Attorney, no less. Perhaps she could say “res ipsa loquitur” or something legal like, something that reaches beyond the latest episode of Law and Order. My heart goes out to all the active duty soldiers, men and women, who are in harm’s way in Bush’s War. And to their parents. I have kids their age, and I can empathise with what they are going through every night and every day. We should all pray for them. Peace and Blessings. Comment by Briseadh na Faire — April 24, 2006 @ 1:43 am …'’ Once more there was a sound of boots outside. Winston’s entrails contracted.'’ Comment by GURU^--ORWELL — April 24, 2006 @ 1:44 am Nothing here that the world didn’t know already. Comment by me — April 24, 2006 @ 1:49 am Briseadh na Faire , Last time I discussed ‘war crimes’ issues with Mighty Moron, she pulled out the old NeoCon line about how there’s no UN jurisdiction - and that we don’t need no stinking ICC. She’s just a standard Federalist Society IDIOT in her values. Comment by Ryan Neat — April 24, 2006 @ 2:00 am mighty tripey is just an idiot. i mean a full-blown, worthless hack of an idiot. sure, jump into the conversation with a total non sequitor, and then duck out, but not before taking the time to heap praise upon “herself” and hurl another insult or two for good measure. if you want to defend your worthless idiot president, tripey, then give it a shot. i believe the topic is: cia agent accusing administration of ignoring hard evidence of no wmd’s - with the all-too familiar theme … “they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy.” can you refute that? can you justify that? i don’t think so. you’re just a valueless piece of human trash, tripey. i know that’s extreme to say, but i also know that you pretty much regard most people here in exactly the same way. so i’ll spare us all the niceties. if you actually demonstrated ANY ability to make judgements based on FACT, i might be able to give you the benefit of the doubt. but there is no doubt anymore — you are a completely hopeless partisan screw-up with only one purpose: TO GLORIFY HERR LEADER! HEIL BUSH! HEIL BUSH! HEIL BUSH!!! as if bush actually gives even the most accidental fart about your life. what a loser you are. that is all. Comment by Progressaurus Rex — April 24, 2006 @ 2:28 am Ryan, As you can see, as long as the Unites States is a member of the United Nations, we are under a Treaty obligation to uphold its Charter. And Treaties are the Supreme Law of the Land under our Constitution. You know, the document Bush took an oath to uphold…that ’scrap of paper.’ I’m still waiting for MA’s rebuttal. Comment by Briseadh na Faire — April 24, 2006 @ 2:30 am MA is going to have a hard time claiming Valire Plame didn’t work on the WMD issue with the Memo declassified recently, available here:Valire Wilson a CIA WMD manager, wonder what (s)he will slander the state department for about this little fact. Comment by Clif — April 24, 2006 @ 2:40 am […] CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 DRUMHELLER: The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy. […] Pingback by The Long Goodbye » Blog Archive » When your name is called go over there… take this over to that table… — April 24, 2006 @ 2:48 am “Tis gas prices that slaid the beast” was told to the reporters as King Kush finally met his end. Comment by Mark Cartwright — April 24, 2006 @ 3:04 am Perhaps we should start a “black ribbon campaign” to run for the remained of the time we have the traitor in the white house! It could signify the mourning of the loss of all the values our great nation was founded upon. Then maybe, just maybe, once 100 million people start showing them everywhere the rest of the world will realize that America is currently under the thumb of a corrupt regime that appointed itself by means of corrupt Supreme Court Justices even though they lost the 2000 election. It is a great deal to hope for I know, but I fear this may be our only hope to remove these miscreants from our hallowed halls of government. I’d even go so far as to suggest writing letters to delegates in the UN urging countries to break off all ties With this administration until a truly independent body was permitted to examine the true evidence from 9/11 which is in direct conflict with the 9/11 commissions report. And the UN should look into the fixing of the Pre-war intel since it does directly violate the law and is indeed all the justification they would need to charge GWB and his admin with war crimes as well as numerous human rights violations. Comment by PO'd Vet — April 24, 2006 @ 3:19 am ITMFA Comment by Nick — April 24, 2006 @ 3:32 am I will bring them to their knees. Comment by Patrick J. Fitzgerald — April 24, 2006 @ 4:21 am I wouldn’t get too excited. They’ll just “Swiftboat” and (falsely) discredit this guy like they do everybody else. Comment by JPV — April 24, 2006 @ 4:23 am King George must go. As quickly as possible with as much fanfare as possible a correction must be made. Today the figure that lays on the trigger along still mad man. Certainly I will support anything he does in Afghanistan. The hidden boldface lie to start wars cannot be left uncorrected. Comment by mima — April 24, 2006 @ 6:46 am Clif,you can’t be serious since the fact that 133 reps weren’t taken in by the “false” intel,what happened to the rest. Your argument is as vacuous as your accusations. The fact that you can’t comprehend declarative sentences is an educational flaw you should work on in your spare time. Briseadh,again you seem to have a real blind spot over this election stuff. What I said about Murtha,a Democratic rep has nothing to do with Delay or anyone else. It has to do with voters like you who stand in opposition to the administration and can’t seem to recognize that the Democratic party’s leadership is non-existent. So long as Reid (voted for the AUMF) Kerry (voted for the AUMF),Kennedy (voted for the AUMF) and the others constitute the “leadership”,the party will wander in the desert. There is no there, there. You can’t make a response,so you blame it on someone else. The posters here (Judd,Faiz etc.) are worth reading,but the commenters like you two are singers of the same song on every thread: Bush lied,he’s a criminal,he’s corrupt,well,duh! But I notice you wouldn’t respond to the leadership issue. Oh well,I’ll go find some adults on the Wash.monthly blog. Comment by TJM — April 24, 2006 @ 6:58 am Thank you for your WMD lesson. It’s not difficult to do what I have done if you have a positive relationaship with God, a wonderful spouse, well-liked and well- behaved children, sleep 4-5 hours a night, great law professors, supportive colleagues, and funny, wonderful brothers, sisters and cousins. Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 23, 2006 @ 11:27 pm You really should keep a journal of what you say, dude. As Ryan already pointed out, this is in complete conflict with your previous imaginary life. Clearly, because you don’t have a photographic (or even decent) memory, you fail to understand that there are those who do. No way you are or have any of the things you say, or you wouldn’t spend so much time in here insulting people. It’s not logical. But, neither are you, so what’s to be expected really? Oh well, keep running your mouth. It’s become funny to see what lie you’ll try to sell next. I’m guessing you’ll be appointed judge or have another baby. Whatever it is it will be incredulous as usual. Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 7:12 am The results would stun a stampeding hoarde of neocons into silence and stillness. Comment by Nate — April 23, 2006 @ 9:00 pm Now that would be a treat! :) Keep us posted. It’ll be interesting to see how this will develop. Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 7:14 am I wouldn’t get too excited. They’ll just “Swiftboat” and (falsely) discredit this guy like they do everybody else. Comment by JPV — April 24, 2006 @ 4:23 am Fortunately, they tied in his information with an interview with Joe Wilson, and the history of the event. It will be tough to discredit this one. CBS was on the ball with it. As if they knew they had to be. Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 7:16 am Then bush is a liar - But more importantly a MASS MURDERER Comment by Hanz — April 24, 2006 @ 7:48 am a mass murderer that bombs INNOCENT women and children, to say the very least Comment by Smidtzel — April 24, 2006 @ 8:52 am I guarantee you that Drumheller had a wife who donated money to Kerry. Comment by Gary Ruppert — April 24, 2006 @ 8:54 am Yeah except this man, Sabri, told us that Iraq HAD chemical weapons, wanted nuclear weapons, and had a nascent biological program. Not to mention that this was coming from Saddam’s inner circle. So once again, we hear a bunch of half truths from political operatives. Wonderful. Let’s declassify the reports coming from Sabri and let’s see who the liar is. Comment by Seixon — April 24, 2006 @ 9:09 am friends and family of US soldiers in Iraq need to inundate the White House with angry phone calls… they need to let W know they’re NOT HAPPY! Comment by Pete Bogs — April 24, 2006 @ 9:17 am Now this is the CBS of ‘Good Night and Good Luck’ legend! It was an excellent piece that connected all of the dots. If this isn’t the final nail in Bush’s coffin, then I really don’t know what will be. Comment by unbelievable #2 unbelievable, Not so fast… …the republiscum party realizes that their “Golden Boy” turned dogsh*t… …will almost certainly be dragged through the mud, if they lose the midterm elections in Nov… …this raises cause for much concern as to electoral dirty tricks (a’ la Diebold, katherine Harris/Ken Blackwell)… …many states STILL have electronic voting machines and crooked voting apparatus set up to steal elections.. … therefore it is incumbent upon all patriotic Americans to be vigilant, and vocal in exhorting our/ your local elections officials to get optical scanning votin machines installed BEFORE this election… …these machines offer a much needed paper trail… …the Bushites are desperate, and their inbred base (the perpetual 33%) care so much about the image of the “presidency” and their gods Bushiva and L’il Dick.. …that they are willing to run this country straight into hell to preserve their potentates’ dignity… …that is their “PERCEIVED” dignity (which of course we thinking Progressives know is non-existent)… … Progressives ALL, let’s get busy and demand optical scanning voting machines! …on Mr. Drumheller, another American patriot risks everything to get the truth out… …we MUST NOT let him, the generals, Mary McCarthy, or Bunnatine Greenhouse and Coleen Rowley down! Comment by big papa — April 24, 2006 @ 9:18 am Good morning Unbelievable - the 60 Minutes piece was very well done, wasn’t it? While they mentioned other lies regarding WMD, they wisely concentrated on outting one particular lie, the phony Niger claims, and told the story from beginning to end in a way that will make it very difficult to dispute. I look forward to MA and IRI’s eloquent arguments disputing the facts of this piece, don’t you? Comment by Quadrajet — April 24, 2006 @ 9:24 am Seixon: If Saddam had chemical weapons, where did he get them? According to the record, during the Iraq-Iran war, the US was only to happy to support and supply him with tactical and chemical material to defeat Iran. Wonder who has the largest supply of nuclear and chemical weaponry in the world? Wonder how that supply of Napalm is holding up? Comment by Nova16 — April 24, 2006 @ 9:26 am I find it amazing that a little punk so called President was allowed to start a war just for the hell of it and he still hasn’t been impeached. He launched another Gulf of Tonkin and was laughing all the way “It’s so much fun to start wars, dur dur dur!” Now he’s on to step 2, Iran. The PNAC plan was set years ago and people still elected this moron when they all should have known was he was going to do and based on the people all around him, all of whom signed that PNAC letter. America got what it asked for and if they re-elect the GOP to keep control in Nov., then all that says is “I enjoy getting beaten up and abused, I don’t care”…..Republicans beat up and abuse the American people like a step- child but it sure seems like they enjoy getting beaten on day after day after day. Sad…very sad. Comment by BushWillPaySoonerorLater — April 24, 2006 @ 9:28 am I look forward to MA and IRI’s eloquent arguments disputing the facts of this piece, don’t you? Comment by Quadrajet — April 24, 2006 @ 9:24 am Morning Quadrajet, Yeah, I was impressed with the piece. It was as if they’d all been inspited by their past all of a sudden, hu? I hope they keep it up, cause aside from 60 Minutes I’ve stopped watching them after they caved into the pressure and didn’t air the Reagan biopic. Mighty Medusa is predictable. He’ll say: udhhkjdvlkjhvu vhushc;dhciudhc lhcudubvisuhvksvkjcnv hdcbbckbvkji nsldcvniosnsli idncsncsnc ncnsdjn indlcnslkdnc hiubhiudc nzin incknc izsdcjklnzljcn. There are no valid arguments to dispute this anymore, so I’m sure the invalid ones will be humorous :) Guess we’ll see…. Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 9:32 am Big Papa, They will try. I just don’t think they have many people left who are listening. Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 9:34 am Mighty Medusa is predictable. He’ll say: udhhkjdvlkjhvu vhushc;dhciudhc lhcudubvisuhvksvkjcnv hdcbbckbvkji nsldcvniosnsli idncsncsnc ncnsdjn indlcnslkdnc hiubhiudc nzin incknc izsdcjklnzljcn. Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 9:32 am Bwhahahahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh Unbelievable:) Wonder what the diversion will be today? Comment by Quadrajet — April 24, 2006 @ 9:39 am I have to wonder how those 5000 American parents without sons and daughters as a result of his deceptions feel about King George today. I mean, do they tell themselves that Bush is really smart and if he said the troops had to go to Iraq, well then he was no doubt right… or do they sometimes wonder if this stooge has half the mind he was born with? Do they look at the pictures of their daughters and thank god that the Iraqi people are now free to choose Sharia Law? Do they look at the pictures of their sons and wonder if they would have made better Presidents than the man that sent them to their death? Comment by Solitaire — April 24, 2006 @ 9:47 am The Drumheller interview on 60 Minutes was well done and informative for all of you who have your head beneath the covers for the past 6 years. There was absolutely nothing new in this interview that has not been brought to your attention time and time again. Yet, you allow you elected representatives in Washington ignore the lies and deception of George W. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and numerous others. From the gitgo this whole thing should have been investigated by the Senate. Was there one outcry for such an investigation? If so, I did not hear it. The thing was buried by the Republican congress with the aid of the Amurkan public. NO ONE CAME FORTH. This morning there should be millions at the gate of the White House awaiting the return of fearless leader from his pussyfooting trip in California. Will there be anyone at the gate? I doubt it. Will there be a call in the halls of congress for any sort of investigation? I doubt it. Will there be swiftboating of the messenger? Absolutely. Will there be further revelations e.g. the bin Laden tape? Absolutely. Will this all be forgotten and swept under the rug, one again? Absolutely. The American people have the attention span of a three year old. Period. Comment by Paul in Mexico — April 24, 2006 @ 9:50 am Bwhahahahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh Unbelievable:) Wonder what the diversion will be today? Comment by Quadrajet — April 24, 2006 @ 9:39 Some sympathy ploy, perhaps? It was a dead child last week. Maybe his brother will go down in a black hawk in Iraq? Something extreme I bet. I was once having a conversation with another liberal, and MA posted something to me. I ignored him, so 15 minutes later he posted it a second time. He’s all about getting attention at any cost. So, no telling what outrageous faux tragedy he will cook up next… Any ideas? Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 9:54 am #61 It’s not difficult to do what I have done if you have a positive relationaship with God, That’s not what he told me. a wonderful spouse, That’s not what she told me. well-liked and well-behaved children Well, just the same, I’d keep the gun cabinet locked. Comment by Mighty Crapped-my-didies — April 24, 2006 @ 9:57 am […] 60 Minutes: CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 […] Pingback by EH// Where the Sky Is Blueberry & Cream. » Blog Archive » Cheney Naps, Pink & Neil Young — April 24, 2006 @ 10:09 am Mighty Medusa is predictable. He’ll say: udhhkjdvlkjhvu vhushc;dhciudhc lhcudubvisuhvksvkjcnv hdcbbckbvkji nsldcvniosnsli idncsncsnc ncnsdjn indlcnslkdnc hiubhiudc nzin incknc izsdcjklnzljcn. Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 9:32 am You know, I always thought there was something Lovecraftian about the right… Comment by Bruce Gorton — April 24, 2006 @ 10:18 am He’s all about getting attention at any cost. So, no telling what outrageous faux tragedy he will cook up next… Any ideas? Comment by unbelievable — April 24, 2006 @ 9:54 am Well, I’d guess some unfounded claim that Drumheller supported Kerry in ‘04, but as irrelevant as such a claim would be even if true it would still be too applicable to the topic at hand for MA so I’m ruling that out. I’m sure that Clinton is behind all of this somehow - and possibly FDR - so maybe something along those lines. I hadn’t read the ‘baby’ claim - I know this is cold but I have to ask, was it a suicide? And to think that even a death in the family doesn’t prevent him from posting here, what a trooper! Comment by Quadrajet — April 24, 2006 @ 10:20 am Why aren’t Bush supporters furious with him for lying to them, over and over, and over again? It was the worst thing EVER, when President Clinton lied about cheating on his wife with another (younger) woman. Poor America, will she ever recover? Woe to us. We wasted several YEARS, and millions and millions of dollars investigating an ’sex scandal’. People are shocked that a man would lie about cheating on his wife???? The “Righties” happily raged on and on about it, EVERY SINGLE DAY, FOR YEARS!!! Gawd!!! I wish that was all that BushCo was lying to us about now. But nooooooo, every day, more lies come out, each one more horrifying than the one before it. Clinton lied about sex, Bush lied us into a “war” with Iraq, and is NOW trying to start another one, based on even more lies, but THIS TIME he wants to use NUCLEAR WEAPONS!!! Clinton Bashers should be consistent, you need to bash Bush for all of his lies, which have been exposed by mountains of evidence, but they continue to lie to all of us anyway, and any who dare to contradict their assertions are destroyed. People had no problem accepting that Clinton lied about “Oral in the Oval Office”, but WILL NOT believe that GWB lied, and continues to lie, about war, and would prefer that we remain fearful, and actively reinforce it, with more lies. Yes, it’s awful to admit it to yourself, and to see what it caused you to do, trying to defend them. But, of course you wanted to believe the President, because if he was willing to lie to your face, just to do whatever he wants to do, what WON’T he do? Hell, he wants to NUKE IRAN!!!! Why would lying bother him? Comment by Cyra Brown — April 24, 2006 @ 10:33 am So what mischief are the Bush loving trolls up to today? More of the same or some new slander? They have to be paid well to defend a turd like Bush ass > lol. Comment by Jay Randal — April 24, 2006 @ 10:39 am “Tyler Drumheller, the former chief of the CIA’s Europe division,” Some Liberal asshats in the CIA have been working against Bush since he got in office. With a little luck some of them will be tried and sent to prison for turning over classified information to the Left Wing Press. Like this bitch: In a rare occurrence, the CIA fired an officer who acknowledged giving classified information to a reporter, NBC News learned Friday. The officer flunked a polygraph exam before being fired on Thursday and is now under investigation by the Justice Department, NBC has learned. Intelligence sources tell NBC News the accused officer, Mary McCarthy, worked in the CIA’s inspector general’s office and had worked for the National Security Council under the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12423825/ These are the kind of people who were working for Bill Clinton and still in place to allow a dozen ragheads to kill three thousand Americans on 9-11. Now they are working to undermine our war efforts. I’d sure like to see these bastards put away but it seems they have too many high profile Democrats running interference for them The CIA’s war against the Bush administration is one of the great untold stories of the past three years. It is, perhaps, the agency’s most successful covert action of recent times. The CIA has used its budget to fund criticism of the administration by former Democratic officeholders. The agency allowed an employee, Michael Scheuer, to publish and promote a book containing classified information, as long as, in Scheuer’s words, “the book was being used to bash the president.” However, the agency’s preferred weapon has been the leak. In one leak after another, generally to the New York Times or the Washington Post, CIA officials have sought to undermine America’s foreign policy. Usually this is done by leaking reports or memos critical of administration policies or skeptical of their prospects. Through it all, our principal news outlets, which share the agency’s agenda and profit from its torrent of leaks, have maintained a discreet silence about what should be a major scandal.” http://www.weeklystandard.com/ Content/ Public/ Articles/ 000/ 000/ 006/ 417aldhj.asp This is your post modern Progressive (communist) Democratic Party. The party of Treason, Abortion and Sodomy. Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 24, 2006 @ 10:44 am Congrats IRI, in one post you managed an attempt to change the subject to CIA leaks, blame Clinton for something, inject your personal brand of bigotry and hatred, and label those who dissent as treasonous and supporters of abortion. I’ll give you an 8. Now, how about giving us your thoughts on the white house’s promotion of intelligence it knew to be false. Comment by Quadrajet — April 24, 2006 @ 10:54 am how is this news? Just because it made 60 mins means nothing. The facts have been there for anyone to see. If you only now are coming to the conclusion that bushit lied then you are not paying attention. As to the american people voting in this evil cabal,,,well, the elections were rigged. bushit has never been elected to the office he holds, has never had political capitol to spend. he is the anti-christ as far as I’m concerned. Hope his father and “babs” are happy with what they unleashed on our country and the world. bushit is a liar, a thief, a fake. Those that did vote for him support something they don’t understand, dancing to a tune sung from hell. Hopefully we will get a democracy back when all is said and done, if we still have a country to work with. Comment by kerryinalaska — April 24, 2006 @ 10:59 am So, who is this traitor? Prior to joining CSIS in August 2001, Mary O. McCarthy was a senior policy adviser to the CIA’s deputy director for science and technology. Until July 2001, she served as special assistant to the president and senior director for intelligence programs on the National Security Council (NSC) Staff, under both Presidents Clinton and Bush. From 1991 until her appointment to the NSC, McCarthy served on the National Intelligence Council. She began her government service as an analyst, then manager, in CIA’s Directorate of Intelligence, holding positions in both African and Latin American analysis. From 1979 to 1984 she was employed by BERI, S.A., conducting financial, operational, and political risk assessments for multinational companies and banks. Previously she had taught at the University of Minnesota and was director of the Social Science Data Archive at Yale University. McCarthy has a B.A. and M.A. in history from Michigan State University, an M.A. in library science from the University of Minnesota, and a Ph.D. in history from the University of Minnesota. She is the author of Social Change and the Growth of British Power in the Gold Coast (University Press of America, 1983). Guess who else belongs to the Center for Strategic and International Studies ? Zbigniew Brzezinski — Counselor and Trustee, CSIS General Wesley Clark USA (Ret.), Distinguished Senior Adviser General Anthony Zinni USMC (Ret.), Distinguished Senior Adviser http://www.csis.org/ component/ option,com_csis_experts/ task,view/ type,34/ id,98/ What a surprise! Guess who promoted the traitor within the department? Oh come on, you get three guesses. How about Sandy the Burglar? You know the Donk operative that got caught stuffing secret papers down his pants and then “losing” them. Washington — National Security Advisor Samuel R. Berger announced June 16 the appointment of Mary O’Neil McCarthy as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Intelligence Programs. http://www.fas.org/ irp/ news/ 1998/ 06/ 98061701_tpo.html I think that around election time a sitting US Senator on the Donk side will be charged for leaking secret information. It’s just a guess. Really. Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 24, 2006 @ 11:00 am IRI, any chance of getting you to comment on the subject of the thread? For your clarification, the topic is the Bush administration’s knowledge that the WMD claims were suspect at best. Comment by Quadrajet — April 24, 2006 @ 11:11 am oh well, that changes everything … i get it now, iris … it’s all good that thousands have died to enrich a few… who cares about LIES, the real criminals are those that try to save the democracy… it’s all clear now… Comment by katy — April 24, 2006 @ 11:13 am Now, how about giving us your thoughts on the white house’s promotion of intelligence it knew to be false. Comment by Quadrajet Who said it was “known” to be false? One of your leaking traitorous Democratic Party political operatives working with the CIA to bring down our government? Really? Your sources are corrupt. Try again. Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 24, 2006 @ 11:14 am I-RIGHT-I, your posts are a complete joke, as usual. Sorry but changing the subject isn’t an effective way to defend your boy. as for the rest of you, don’t get all worked up about this, i doubt this will even be a blip on the radar, this is considered old news by most and FNC if they even talk about this today will talk about CBS and their liberal bias and that talking about the past isn’t an effective way to fight the “War on terra”. Comment by onthefence — April 24, 2006 @ 11:22 am #98 Nova16, Seixon: If Saddam had chemical weapons, where did he get them? According to the record, during the Iraq-Iran war, the US was only to happy to support and supply him with tactical and chemical material to defeat Iran. Wonder who has the largest supply of nuclear and chemical weaponry in the world? Wonder how that supply of Napalm is holding up? You’re kidding me, right? The US did not supply Iraq with tactical and chemical material. They sold Iraq helicopters, guaranteed loans, and the CDC sent Iraqi universities biological samples. Iraq made tons and tons of chemical weapons, with good help from Germany and the USSR. Their nuclear program came from France. Who has the largest supply of nuclear and chemical weaponry? Well, as far as nuclear goes, that would be the USA. As far as chemical weapons, I don’t really know the answer to that, as the USA has been continually destroying all their stocks of chemical weapons. I wouldn’t believe that Russia is doing exactly the same thing, not to mention countries such as China and others. Napalm isn’t a chemical weapoon. It’s an incendiary weapon. You’d think that you’d at least know the difference, but I guess facts aren’t high on the list of needs here at Think Progress. You might as well call every single weapon containing chemicals “chemical weapons”. Of course, intelligent people know better. The conventions on chemical weapons - read it. See if you find napalm on the list. Now I will watch the segment to see if CBS even mentions the fact that Sabri told the French that Iraq had chemical weapons. I am betting that they won’t. Comment by Seixon — April 24, 2006 @ 12:01 pm “a great nation slowly being eaten from within, how sad” - me Comment by catseye — April 24, 2006 @ 12:03 pm For me this is an example of the loss of checks and balances in government. With the Republicans currently controling both Congress and the White House, neither one of these entities are going to countermand the other. God forbid that we should actually have a discussion of issues! Over the last forty years has the United States learned ANYTHING about going to war? We’re not talking about ancient history here, were talking about the escalation of the Vietnam war and the justifications for that escalation. It is a travesty that the country let this President and his Congress get involved in this war without a true discussion of the issues. At the same time, this saber rattling President appears to be going down the same road again to war. What bothers me the most is the lack of almost any discussion in Congress about a possible war in Iran. At the same time, this administration through the concept of “inherent power in the Presidency” is almost making Congress irrelevant. Even though Americans profess that they are unhappy with the direction of the country, I will be VERY surprised if America doesn’t re-elect most of the same group that has gotten us to this sorry state. Comment by Wally O'Brien — April 24, 2006 @ 12:25 pm #119 - We sold them weapons grade “starter” material for the biological attacks that Saddam Hussein used to kill people. Basically, we provided them the materials to begin ther “WMD programs”. http://www.iranchamber.com/ history/ articles/ arming_iraq.php May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the “Anfal” campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. You’ll be able to see pictures of (Sec.) Rumsfeld shaking heand with Saddam. Even if we didn’t actually sell the finished product, what do you think “chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas”, ‘weapons grade botulin poison”, and “21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax” would be used for in Iraq while they were at war with Iran? I seriously doubt they were trying to find new ways of increasing their oil productions. Comment by Democrat Soldier — April 24, 2006 @ 12:28 pm IRI- For the love of God, if you watched 60 Minutes last night, you’d understand from his own point of view on how the ex-CIA official saw what was going down and how those inexperienced with intelligence ignored expert advice by jumping the gun and going for any country that could provide oil and extra kickbacks for themselves. Tell me if you know more about the CIA than the guy who served nearly three decades there. Tell me if Porter Goss knows more about the CIA than anyone who served longer than him. Tell me what you know. Don’t change the subject. Be brave enough to answer the questions we’ve been asking you. Comment by JIMBO — April 24, 2006 @ 12:51 pm Ever notice how one or two disgruntled government bureaucrats are taken at facevalue by the pssimistic progs here at TP?? If anyone disagrees with their “enlightened” position that one is denounced as a “radical right-wing extremist”. Have they arrested the Pulitzer/ CIA leaker yet? She certainly does the prog movement proud. #63 - Clif, my brother is a Navy Captain - I don’t know how “low ranking” you consider that to be. Again, thank you for your service. To conclude with a completely GLIB comment: I see the little mini-putz returned from Spring Break, had his suspension from TP overturned, or got out of jail. Then again, perhaps it was all three. Must be running - I have a busy day ahead - Happy Monday! Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 24, 2006 @ 12:53 pm Aphro, you are the poster that offers nothing. Every time you are called on a subject you change it. Ryan has proved to us that you are a liar. I suppose you hate him so much because he alwasy catches your falsehoods. Aren’t you embarrased getting caught telling so many untruths? Comment by progressive and proud — April 24, 2006 @ 1:07 pm #122 Democrat Soldier: You have listed exactly what I said. The CDC sent biological samples to Iraqi universities. There is no evidence that it was these that were used to create anthrax and other biological agents. You also list up the purposely vague “US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas”. Why aren’t the chemicals named? Well, they aren’t because it will be revealed that the “chemicals” spoken of are most likely something as innocent as water, or chlorine. If you don’t think so, ask yourself why the chemical isn’t named. In fact, the chemical formula for a common type of mustard gas is C4H8Cl2S. Thus, the “chemical” being vaguely alluded to may very well be chlorine - a substance that is used for water sanitation. I also must laugh at the usage of what seems to be a pro-Iranian source. #124 aphro: Yes it seems that Ryan is back from some sort of absence, back with his ad hominem arsenal. Such a shame really, I thought I was finally able to have real discussions with people here. Now he’s back to smear me and everyone else he disagrees with by using such intellectual words as “retard” and “stupid”. Comment by Seixon — April 24, 2006 @ 1:19 pm That information was in the public domain since 1997/8 he isn’t telling us anything new. The CIA said Saddam was of no threat then too. Blah blah blah. Why do we rehash old ground and not really get into changing things. Who benefits from us going round and round in circles never changing the tune? Comment by bored — April 24, 2006 @ 2:20 pm #129-Yeah, it is so easy to be mistaken, like Condi was when she claimed that the aluminum tubes purchased by Iraq, were for the enrichment of that “500 Tons of Yellowcake Uranium” that Saddam got from Niger, so they could build some nukes, or maybe they already had them. And anyone could have mistaken those trucks in Iraq, that carried the Hydrogen they used to inflate weather ballons for the much-hyped “Mobile Weapons Labratories”, used by Saddam, to evade detection by weapons inspectors, that Saddam wasn’t letting go into Iraq, so that GWB had to tell them to ‘beat it’, because the invasion was imminent. Easy to see how obviously innocent events can be “misunderestimated” by the most well-intentioned person. Comment by Cyra Brown — April 24, 2006 @ 2:35 pm It’s about time somebody with some credibility came forward to shed some light on this rediculous lie. As a Canadian, I am disgusted that our military has been pulled into this Middle East war (afghanistan). Our government needs to realize that this administration has been lying to the world for years (since their involvement with 911) and this “war on Terrorism” is nothing but BS in order to scare the public into believing they need to occupy these middle eastern countries (for other reasons… *cough* oil *cough*). The American public needs to wake up, and demand a changing of the gaurd. These war crimes cannot go unpunished. Comment by DJ — April 24, 2006 @ 2:54 pm Another general has turned traitorous; Gen. Van Riper is for Rummy’s resignation. The smearing from the Keyboard Kommandos will begin in three, two, . . . Comment by barfly — April 24, 2006 @ 4:09 pm Barfly, why do you think that Rove has now been let loose - so that he can smear all of the generals, along with all of the Democratic challengers for the mid-terms! Comment by Jane E. Schneider — April 24, 2006 @ 4:20 pm Sure, Georgie-boy should be canned, but what about the media (60 Minutes included)? The information that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction doesn’t deserve to be debated. Everyone knew it before hand. Scott Ritter, the chief weaspons inspector for the UN and a Marine, toured North America giving irrefutable evidence that Iraq had not WMDs. Why wasn’t that story covered? A ten year old could see that Iraq was defenseless. No one but a bunch of research challenged reporters and people who were too lazy to look into anything on their own would ever have believed George et al. And that is still true now. What is up with 60 Minutes pretending they have a big news story? I don’t get it. Comment by JR Besant — April 24, 2006 @ 4:32 pm Sure, Georgie-boy should be canned, but what about the media (60 Minutes included)? The information that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction doesn’t deserve to be debated. Everyone knew it before hand. Scott Ritter, the chief weaspons inspector for the UN and a Marine, toured North America giving irrefutable evidence that Iraq had not WMDs. Why wasn’t that story covered? A ten year old could see that Iraq was defenseless. No one but a bunch of research challenged reporters and people who were too lazy to look into anything on their own would ever have believed George et al. And that is still true now. What is up with 60 Minutes pretending they have a big news story? I don’t get it. Comment by JR Besant — April 24, 2006 @ 4:32 pm ok, you right-wing jackasses (especially i-r-i), see what you sound like: http://workingforchange.speedera.net/ http://www.workingforchange.com/ webgraphics/ wfc/ TMW03-22-06.jpg Comment by Progressaurus Rex — April 24, 2006 @ 4:58 pm let me make that a little easier for you witless losers: Comment by Progressaurus Rex — April 24, 2006 @ 5:01 pm let me make that a little easier for you witless losers: Comment by Progressaurus Rex — April 24, 2006 @ 5:01 pm durn, shoulda quit when i was ahead… hard to do stuff this early in the a.m. except “hate america” of course. it’s just so natural. PLEASE PLEASE can we have mullahs for america, it’s truly what all progressives and liberals want! Comment by Progressaurus Rex — April 24, 2006 @ 5:06 pm Bush is a Liar; so what’s new? Comment by Catflap — April 24, 2006 @ 6:12 pm I posted this on another webpage and reposted as it applies well here too: This is why my ex-wife’s family who joined Organized Crime calls this “The World’s Largest Criminal System”. What’s missing are the links to money given to other countries! Plus, look over the Military more closely, there’s more there too. Now as everyone can see the money being handed out as PORK, start looking more closely at how they manage the criminal system! The wiretapping and snooping is vital to manage and secure their criminal operations. Anyone of us who know something more than others are targets for their wiretapping. This is even if we only wrote negative posts like I do! I’m more than certain my name is one of their targets! When this surfaces later to be true, please remember that the snooping never started after 9/11, it really started decades before! I know that because I was in a family who is part of this. They made wiretapping public because they had a “REASON” with what happened with 9/11. Remember, corruption only happens when you have a REASON to spend treasury money. Without a REASON, no spending and thus, NO corruption! PORK is our description of excuses to spend treasury money! They have to manufacture REASONS to spend our money, even if it means fabricating a REASON for WAR. In the Political Corruption arm of this criminal system, please realize that this same scenario exists in other countries such as the UK and elsewhere. And that they have inner communication links which are how they manage to coordinate between each other. The drug system uses this exclusively and in the US those involved can learn about anyone, anywhere, who are involved, even if they are using drugs. Remember, people who use drugs aren’t going to advertise they are using drugs, only the inside drug people know. I’m not the only one who has experienced the existence of this communication link, so remember there are others like me who know. While in the family, my oldest son lived in Wyoming with his mom and step dad. My wife was suspicious and went to her father, then the criminal system to learn what they were doing. I was without knowledge of this and later, she approached me with options. She learned that they were drug addicts and were using all their money to buy drugs. This started with my son complained to my wife about eating boxed food three times a day. My father-in-law offered the option of having something DONE to them, if I wanted! Being totally shocked and wondering where this was coming from, I asked to think about it for a little while. I used the time to talk to my wife and learn more. I didn’t know where this came from, what it was all about and what they would want to do to them Some things mentioned were they could be setup to be arrested and even something worse, if I wanted. Hearing rumors over the years in the family about setup murder(s), I feared the worse could happen. I didn’t want to be part of anything and didn’t especially want any harm to come to them. I thought sooner or later it may change, knowing who they were and thank God, this is what happened. They ended up moving to the mid-west to get away from the drug scene and start a new life. At the same time, my son came to live with me and stayed through out his college days. BUT, the important message from this is that this Criminal Group has strong communication links everywhere within it’s reach. It’s REACH means, anywhere they sell drugs, which is in their case means anywhere on this planet! Remember, this is an International Drug Distribution Network that includes Very Wide Spread Political Corruption including our Federal Level down to Local Levels. Wide scale Fraud involves many different types of Fraud and you see some of this in the news too. Yes, I do understand that this is difficult to believe, but I can assure you that it’s totally true. There are other criminal levels to this far worse than just corruption. They involve the worst criminal behaviors imaginable and it’s all happening right in our backyard. We are all FOOLS to TRUST them! Comment by Marty Didier — April 24, 2006 @ 6:12 pm Mighty gives us some entertainment, but is now becoming a bore and irrelevent to any dialogue involving adults. Give it up pal. We Americans are taking back our land from these goons like you and you might as well get use to it. We will allow you to rant like a child for only a limited amount of time and then place you in your room for a long time-out. Decency and honesty will finally shine it’s light on these miscreant chickenshit-hawks and history will not treat them kindly…. Comment by circusfifthfloor — April 24, 2006 @ 6:31 pm You stupid Americans - you didn’t really believe that your President and others were telling the truth did you? What a nation of gullible sheep! Comment by rob — April 24, 2006 @ 6:49 pm I replied to Seixon’s fallacious effort to ignore the murder of Iraqi children with DU in the Jonah Goldberg: Concerns About Climate Change Are ‘Millenarian Battiness’ thread, which is no longer on the front page. Briefly, it is noteworthy that DU has FIFTY PERCENT OF THE RADIOACTIVITY OF FUEL URANIUM. Fifty percent — how ‘depleted’ is that? About half-depleted. Which is half-radioactive. HALF! Then Seixon quoted the WHO paper, which is propaganda, and I replied to it as such: “* Of the uranium that is absorbed into the blood, approximately 70% will be filtered by the kidney and excreted in the urine within 24 hours; this amount increases to 90% within a few days.” Carefully worded to avoid the point. The 30% that is not filtered, is not filtered because IT IS ALREADY LODGED IN BONE. The factoid then ignores the lodged 30% and pretends that kidney filtration applies to the whole load. It does not, because 1/3 of the uranium is already in the bones, and not circulating in the blood for the kidneys to filter it. “Twenty to thirty percent of a toxic does of intravenous uranium could be found in the bones of male rats within 2.5 hours after administration, and 90% of the uranium retained by the body after 40 days was in bone [Neuman 1948a]. They showed that young growing rats or rats deficient in dietary calcium incorporated greater amounts of uranium than controls [Neuman 1948b]. They also showed that uranium is preferentially incorporated in areas of active calcification and becomes more re-fractory to resorption as new calcification covers areas of uranium deposition [Neuman 1948c].” YOUNG rats, growing rats, absorb MORE DU to the bone than older rats. The danger, as usual, is to the children.” I want to underline part of that: “They also showed that uranium is preferentially incorporated in areas of active calcification and becomes more re-fractory to resorption as new calcification covers areas of uranium deposition” In other words, the 50% Uranium, which is still 100% toxic to tissue, and a considerable genotoxicity threat (i.e., MUTATES DNA), loads to bone in a few hours, and IN CHILDREN is overlaid with normal bone, so that it CANNOT BE REMOVED FROM THE BODY as it would in an adult, by resorption to the bloodstream. “Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. ” While the Genocide Convention does not refer to DU poisoning of children, it clearly considers the anti-children part of genocide. Forceable acts poisoning children are a form of genocide.” Comment by Paul in LA — April 24, 2006 @ 8:50 pm “You stupid Americans - you didn’t really believe that your President and others were telling the truth did you? What a nation of gullible sheep!” –rob Take your BIGOTRY and shove it, rob. You are AT LEAST as stupid as the people you degrade in order to feel righteous. Comment by Paul in LA — April 24, 2006 @ 8:53 pm Ah, I also forgot to mention that Seixon fallaciously uses the fallacious WHO emphasis on INGESTION of DU. The key problem is not ingestion, which is fairly unlikely, it is INHALATION. Inhalation of mercury vapors, inhalation of lead from leaded gas — these inhalation risks are very grave indeed, and well-attested. Inhaled DU in its crystallized (from the heat of striking objects) form presents dangers not seen in the dust itself, since the crystallization produces very sharp microscopic fragments, which lodge in the lungs and cannot be removed (except perhaps by excision of lung tissue). The same goes for Seixon’s scoffing at the US arming of Hussein with chemical and biological arms. Of course, the proof of those acts wasn’t easy to get, but we did get it, eventually. We do have the NAMES of the toxins sold, and no, it isn’t chlorine. It is things like VX Nerve Gas, which Hussien used in his genocide of the Kurds. Comment by Paul in LA — April 24, 2006 @ 9:19 pm The Power of Omission… CBS gears up for another hit-piece on the Bush administration. This time instead of using forgeries, they are using the power of omission to guide their fairytale about another set of forgeries, the Niger documents. Tyler Drumheller, a former CIA chief… Trackback by SEIXON — April 24, 2006 @ 9:20 pm lots of folks are missing their meds…madness Comment by circusfifthfloor — April 24, 2006 @ 10:01 pm More proof that Bush lied. This will not go away. BushCo. will be held accountable for their crimes and corruption, eventually. Bush has overstepped his authority, we need a Congress that will protect our rights. Besides, if Bush acted lawfully then the Republican Congress woud’nt be against an proper investigation. Comment by Daniel — April 24, 2006 @ 10:07 pm […] In some ways this article is a cold slap in the face, yet it doesn't hurt to read about the perceptions that are out there. One thing I don't think the author takes enough note of is the incredible noise machine that the far right has been using for well over forty years to demonize their opponents in easily digested sound bites rather then going into depth on the issues. Not to mention the Swiftboating of politics, the politics of personal attacks based on spreading lies and rumors. And can a party whose leader's lies has caused so much harm to our national security really be trusted to protect America. CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 DRUMHELLER: The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy. […] Pingback by inkbluesky » Blog Archive » pull up a chair — April 24, 2006 @ 10:13 pm #95 I guarantee you have had a mouth full of Bush semen. By the way, welcome back!!!! Comment by JPark — April 24, 2006 @ 10:52 pm This is fantastic, but what I guess no one is coming to terms with is the fact the THE DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE. The sad thing is he has been re-elected. What is impeaching him going to do? These guys don’t care anymore, they are out of here when their term is over anyway. When you mix religion and politics you get corruption, greed, and core American values get molested. Bush is on a mission from Jesus? That is just horseshit that the religious “magic” beleivers want to think. Jesus NEVER said kill somebody. His message was feed the hungry, cloth the naked, give your money to the less fortunate. That message DOES NOT fit into America’s religious beliefs. It’s all about me, me , me, pimp my life! Justify my war! Sorry, but someone has to say. What we can do in the meantime is look forward to the next elections and whether you are republican or democrat, no one should care, we should care about electing a true LEADER. Comment by Jeff Consi — April 24, 2006 @ 11:42 pm Hooray, Rayan.Good to see you in your best. The knuckel dragers do not have much left. IRI/ He won’t invite me to his “large Houston office building” I know he just cleans the “Johns”. So. He/she will not face me “Mano y Mano”. Live in the same city will meet He/She in the 5th ward or even “Montrose”. He/She can even drive that big gas guzzuler. Maybe He/She can meet at Vinson and Elkens Office . IRI it is time to get it on! name the time and place you freak and I will be there. Even north side let’s say Willowbrook mall area or Pearland or 3rd ward pick it!! Do you feel lucky punk?? Comment by Joefriday — April 25, 2006 @ 12:30 am IRI & MA, Take a few steps back and look at what it is you’re defending. A lying, moronic little putz. You guys make Baghdad Bob look credible. You’re standing on the stern of the Titanic as it slips under, sneering at us and saying “Ha! I don’t see any icebergs. What iceblub-blub-b-b…” You’re not nearly as annoying as you’d hope to be. You’re just mildly amusing. It’s over, guys. Nobody’s buying the BS anymore. Comment by jimb — April 25, 2006 @ 12:34 am You make several mistaken assumptions in your posting, Jeff: “The sad thing is he has been re-elected.” He was NOT reelected. They STOLE the election. “What is impeaching him going to do?” Impeachment bills help build political power for INVESTIGATIONS. Formal investigations will lead to INDICTMENTS. That is a path we very much need to walk. “These guys don’t care anymore, they are out of here when their term is over anyway.” No coup in the history of the world ended because of an election. They will NOT ‘be out’ in 2008. More likely, Bush will run again, if there even are elections in 2008. Try to recall Nine-eleven, and try to remember the words of that traitor (who is now in charge of Southern Command, I believe), Gen. Boykin: “If there is another terrorist attack, Americans will demand the cessation of the Constitution for their own safety.” The 22nd Amendment will not save us from these felons. You are underestimating your ENEMIES, Jeff. Comment by Paul in LA — April 25, 2006 @ 12:40 am Paul, Ah yes, so now the UNEP and the WHO are spreading propaganda about DU. What to do when some of the sources progressives usually reach out to start saying things you don’t like… As for you bringing up some stats on rats: rats are rats, humans are humans. Don’t tell me you are comparing the digestive and kidney systems of a rat and a human. Are you really that devoid of thought? It said that 90% of the 2% of DU that was not expelled from the body through the digestive system was expelled by the kidney within a few days, 70% after 24 hours. It also states that DU has low radiation, and that contact with the skin is harmless, even for weeks. I have read stories about persons who have DU embedded in their bodies who have no terminal illnesses from it, nor any other critical illnesses. Instead of claiming that the World Health Organization is coming with propaganda FOR DU, you might want to rethink your strategy and understand that if anything, the WHO and the UN would be spreading propaganda AGAINST it. When they have so little negative to say about it, it can only mean that the propaganda you’ve been suckered into believing is completely uncalled for. As for differences between inhalation and ingestion, I’m sure the WHO documents addresses this although I don’t have time to check it out at the moment. If you feel there is evidence of DU in war zones doing serious harm to civilians, please post a link to a study demonstrating this. And no, by that I don’t mean some kind of press release by Saddam Hussein. And this comment of yours: The same goes for Seixon’s scoffing at the US arming of Hussein with chemical and biological arms. Of course, the proof of those acts wasn’t easy to get, but we did get it, eventually. We do have the NAMES of the toxins sold, and no, it isn’t chlorine. It is things like VX Nerve Gas, which Hussien used in his genocide of the Kurds. The US never armed Hussein with chemical and biological arms. You claim that it wasn’t chlorine that was being talked about, so why wasn’t the chemical being sold named? If it was VX, why didn’t that document just say so? Hmmm, maybe because that would be a direct lie? The US did not sell Iraq VX, and you will not be able to come up with any evidence to substantiate such a lie. The closest the USA ever came to helping Iraq with their chemical weapons was an American company who was building some type of chemical plant in Iraq. However, the chemical being produced wasn’t incorporated into any of Iraq’s chemical programs, and the plant was never finished due to the Iran-Iraq war. Your obsession with blaming the USA for the deeds of Saddam Hussein never ceases to amaze me. I’ll more than welcome any evidence of the things you are alleging, but since I have researched all of it quite thoroughly, I know you will not come up with any. You might as well accept defeat and surrender to the truth. He was NOT reelected. They STOLE the election. Oh man, please stop with the insanity. You are among a small number of holdouts that just won’t let go of the fact that your side lost the election. I voted for Gore in 2000, and it is just painful to watch people still clinging on to something that didn’t happen the way they wanted. Impeachment bills help build political power for INVESTIGATIONS. Formal investigations will lead to INDICTMENTS. That is a path we very much need to walk. Yes, because having Dick Cheney as president would probably please you much more! LOL. No coup in the history of the world ended because of an election. They will NOT ‘be out’ in 2008. More likely, Bush will run again, if there even are elections in 2008. Try to recall Nine-eleven, and try to remember the words of that traitor (who is now in charge of Southern Command, I believe), Gen. Boykin: “If there is another terrorist attack, Americans will demand the cessation of the Constitution for their own safety.” The 22nd Amendment will not save us from these felons. You are underestimating your ENEMIES, Jeff. See, here’s your problem. You see Republicans as “enemies” even though they are your fellow Americans. That is dangerous ground you are treading on. You’ve been watching too many Alex Jones videoes, it seems. I can’t wait until 2008 rolls around to prove you wrong about everything you just said. Maybe I should bookmark this comment of yours and email it to you on inauguration day 2009 just so I can laugh at your irrational rantings of yesteryear. That you believe that Bush will run again, or that there won’t even be elections in 2008 ranks up there on the derangement scale with Alex Jones’ theories about Scharzenegger being selected as president in 2008 for a Nazi takeover of the United States. Get medical help. Seriously. Comment by Seixon — April 25, 2006 @ 1:42 am This is what it takes to convince the US population that “W”, especially, and company are not worthy of support? OMG, did you not observe the 2000 election fiasco or, better yet, pay any attention whatsoever to “W”’s record as governor of Texas?? Really, that this is any surprise to the US population is what is most surprising of all. Comment by david — April 25, 2006 @ 8:55 am All of these so-called revelations about the Bush administration and the run-up to the war, mean absolutely nothing! All these “insiders” have either been fired or are retired. Look at the genrals who are calling for Rumsfeld’s ouster, none of them are active duty! So, it means nothing because they can always be accused of “sour-grapes”. The only-I repeat-the only way any of this will mean anything at all is if the Democrats take back the House and Senate this Fall! Comment by Dennis McOmber — April 25, 2006 @ 10:55 am The only-I repeat-the only way any of this will mean anything at all is if the Democrats take back the House and Senate this Fall! Comment by Dennis McOmber Good luck with that. Here’s part of a montage of clips that will be aired 24/7 just before the election. http://www.cnn.com/ video/ player/ player.html?url=/ video/ us/ 2006/ 04/ 23/ starzyk.ga.mckinney.walks.out.affl&wm=10 Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 25, 2006 @ 11:46 am Bush’s ratings are now down to 32 and waning as we speak. California and Illinois have introduced a bill to impeach Bush and Cheney, I encourage everyone to get in contact with your local state representatives and encourage them to pass this. It is now we must act for the sanctity of this country, our troops, and what little dignity we have left in the world. I am a libertarian, but I would rather have a democrat in office that then dictator and his lackeys. For more information on what’s really going on i’d suggest checking out http://www.globalnewsmatrix.com I really hope america pulls thier heads out of their posteriors and opens thier eyes to what they’re doing to other countries and ours. Comment by Ahriman — April 25, 2006 @ 12:46 pm Here is some support from an european citizen. Impeach the President ! Comment by digital citizen — April 25, 2006 @ 2:51 pm […] War crimes. See: http://www.thefourreasons.org/ and http://thinkprogress.org/ 2006/ 04/ 23/ 60-minutes-cia-official-reveals-bush- cheney-rice-were-personally-told-iraq-had-no-wmd-in-fall-2002/ […] Pingback by Joe Mungai OrBlog » Blog Archive » UP OR DOWN — April 25, 2006 @ 5:26 pm Has anyone noticed that this story isn’t being reported in the mainstream media? Comment by Travis — April 25, 2006 @ 5:48 pm Make no mistake, the “Swiftboaters” already have Drumheller in their sites and are about to pull the trigger - bastards - and there is damn little we can do about it; what with Limberger puking his stuff out for hours everyday and the Repuglican broadcast arm of their party, Fox, belching their “fair and balanced” bullsh&t each evening. The only thing we can hope for is that the 8 generals that have already come out, will inspire more to come out. If there are eight generals that have stepped up to the pump, you can bet that there are 80 more that would like to but fear losing their jobs and their retirement pay. It’s enough to make one sick. I never thought I would say this, being a Korean war veteran, Sept. 15, 1950 - Sept. 15, 1953 - honorably discharged, I was there for the whole freaking thing, but I dislike what my once beloved country has become. It makes me sick to think about it, and yes, I cry often about it. The Ironheads that make up the 32% of the Chimp’s base are not benefiting one iota from their support of the shithe&d. What can’t they see they’re being screwed? Comment by Buzzardpus — April 25, 2006 @ 6:34 pm Before Bush BOMBarded Iraq…Minister Louis Farrakhan informed the world of Mr. Bush’s plans BEFORE the “war” and the LIES that he were telling to propagate this war. So, in the beginning WE (Nation of Islam) knew it was a LIE! That has been planned by the Neo-Cons for years! They tried to bully Clinton into this war but convinced Bush with this idea BEFORE he even STOLE his way into office….Coincindence? I think not. Comment by Charles X — April 25, 2006 @ 7:12 pm The above link will lead you to the two(2) letters Min. Louis Farrakhan wrote to President Bush…ofcourse, there was no response! Comment by Charles X — April 25, 2006 @ 10:59 pm Someone said something about the UN laws,,, I just wanted to ask ,,,does anyone know what Wolfy is up to at the UN? Comment by dalia — April 26, 2006 @ 1:49 am And ALL America was up in arms when your own Dixie Chicks claimed embarassment of bush much to the massive chagrin of the public. And one would have thought that the six months of bombing in southern Iraq BEFORE the war was announced would have been enough to wake up America. Apparently not but, then again, interest in the rest of the world just isnt a concern for the master enterprise nor its sujects. Comment by jonathan cooper — April 26, 2006 @ 3:49 am And ALL America was up in arms when your own Dixie Chicks claimed embarassment of bush much to the massive chagrin of the public. And one would have thought that the six months of bombing in southern Iraq BEFORE the war was announced would have been enough to wake up America. Apparently not but, then again, interest in the rest of the world just isnt a concern for the master enterprise nor its subjects. Comment by jonathan cooper — April 26, 2006 @ 3:50 am While your comments are interesting, the fact remains that a small number of people are greatly benefiting from Bush. Bush keeps the trainloads of $600 ashtrays, $400 hammers, and $300 toilet seats rolling without interruption. Then there’s the $1.5 million cruise missiles that cost them $5,000 to manufacture. To say nothing of how the massive ripoff is characterised by Rumsfeld’s admission on 10 Sept 2001 that the Pentagon had just ‘lost’ $2.4 trillion. Of course, that announcement was timed to be lost on page 27 by events the next day. There are many who benefit, but far from the majority. And far from the majority vote for Bush, but rather the machines without paper trails inform us the majority voted for him. If the majority had truly voted for him, would his inaugural parade in 2000 have been the only one in history to have been stopped by citizens pelting it with eggs and tomatoes? ‘Elections’ are nothing but to maintain the illusion of democracy that has long been lost. Comment by Archie — April 26, 2006 @ 3:34 pm We’ve got to stop letting the most evil, greedy, lying, murderous, people lead our country. That is a recipe for the extinction of humanity. Just imagine how sick and insulated from rest of the world you have to be to support the misery of the Iraq war just ’cause it makes you even MORE rich! Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Halliburton, GE, etc. etc. etc. How do these wicked people sleep at night? I’ll tell you how–they are totally oblivious to the rest of us. In their fancy, secluded mansions, surrounded by other rich friends on their yachts, they lose all touch with the average citizen of this planet. They raise kids in a fantasyland of wealth, surrounded by riches and luxuriance, so when these rich kids get older, and finally see “poor people” for the first time, they think, “How disgusting! Why don’t these lazy bums get to WORK?” They’re insulated from the fact that the working class is working harder than ever for less and less. It’s so easy to dismiss other realities when you live in a pleasure-dome. “Hey, my life is good, therefore, Life in GENERAL is good, and if you’re poor, it’s because you DESERVE it!” Are we going to let these psychopathic, sociopathic personaliities ruin the rest of our lives forever? Comment by The End — April 26, 2006 @ 3:49 pm There is nothing new here, all this information has been readily available to anybody willing to spend just a few hours surfing the web. For the administration to suggest that the lack of WMD’s were a direct result of intelligence failure(s) is rubbish, considering that dozens if not hundreds of web sites that operate on a shoestring budget all got it right. The scary part is what happens next. The invasion of Iraq when viewed as an independent, isolated incident is completely useless to these Zionist Neocons. The invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, etc. were pencilled in long ago, well before Bush even stole the first election. With three years left in his second term what on earth can Bush present to the American people that would rescue his presidency? The economy is sucking wind regardless of what the statistics are saying, Iraq is a disaster, high gasoline prices, rising interest rates, New Orleans lost due to neglect and incompetence, a budget deficit that’s exploding, etc. It’s like somebody else said, “he’s a catastrophe that walks like a man”. Sorry everybody, but the worst is still to come. The Busheviks aren’t done yet. Comment by Mark — April 26, 2006 @ 4:57 pm I have a story that is very pertinent. I am a civilian, no military or intelligence background, but I have a relative who is a retired CIA assistant director that told me 6 months before the Iraq war began that there was NO WEAPONS of any consequence! At the time, I was working for a company in Augusta, Ga and told some of my co workers about this. I would assume that this company is either an agency run company, or the conversations were picked up at nearby Ft. Gordon, an NSA listening post. Shortly after, I was fired from this company where I had worked for over 5 years. I was approached shortly thereafter by a “company” in Miami that I now know is a black bag operation. In short, I have been harassed by series of jobs that I was aproached to take. I can prove everything I say. I recorded conversations with the fake company in Miami, where I was warned about my “political statements”. I even had a call from the NSA, and everybody tells me that they never call people on the phone….So far, the US media seems to be scared of this story. I live in Arizona, and the reporters at the Arizona Republic were told by the managment to “walk away from the story”. I was hung up on by the NY Times. I file lawsuits against these fake CIA companies, but all of a sudden my lawyers dropped off the cases.Can anybody out there offer me legal assistance? They have destroyed my career, just like they did with Valerie Plame! Comment by Philip Ticktin — April 27, 2006 @ 8:46 pm We need to impeach the Cheney/Bush criminals and do some serious democracy building right here in the USA if we want decency, democracy, the environment and civilization to survive on this planet. Comment by Bob Saxton — May 6, 2006 @ 8:51 am It would have help CBS’s credibility if Tyler Drumheller actually knew how to tell the truth. That is if he really is who only CBS claims he is as searches on his background turn up pretty much nothing. The guy is supposed to be a spy so he should be able to lie pretty well. This guy didn’t make eye contact in fact not only was he not making eye contact every time he laid out one of this whoppers his voice cracked. It would not surprise me that when someone can actually find out who Tyler Drumheller is that it is discoverd he is someone who has worked for CBS all his life. If CBS does not quit fabricating stories pretty soon all faith will be lost in any media outlets not just the leftidea. Comment by Sweb — May 7, 2006 @ 7:40 pm […] Think Progress - 60 Minutes: CIA Official Reveals Bush, Cheney, Rice Were Personally Told Iraq Had No WMD in Fall 2002 […] Pingback by http://alexking.org: Blog > Around the web — May 15, 2006 @ 12:56 am I am the mother of one of 1st Marines who entered Iraq in 2003. I screamed “I’m not ready” when the word came that we were going to war and I knew my son was already on his way to Iraq. My son believed in the mission and for that reason I was at a “little” peace, but very scared! As to WMD’s we may not have found any when we looked, but we know they had been there and had been used on the Iraqi people. We also know stashes of injectable medication was found in unlikely spots…. medicine to stop the poisons we were looking for….. the ones that supposedly weren’t there. I know of the stashes found since my son received a commendation for finding and securing such a stash. No one will be able to prove the mission was a wrong one to this very proud mother! Comment by Cheryl McFadden — June 14, 2006 @ 12:59 pm RSS feed for comments on this post. Leave a comment Name (required) E-mail (required, will not be published) URI Schoolin Since Birth
Sorry, Mr. Stone, but Iraq is not even close to be another Viet Nam...we are winning the peace in Iraq, methodically and relentlessly. And the Iraqi troops are being trained by the thousands to defend themselves and their people from the Islamofascist SCUM who want to take the Mideast back 1000 years!! No sir, this ain't Viet Nam...America's not gonna cut&run like we did back then...we'll finish the mission and come home to raucous celebratory parades and the thanks of all good Americans. Regards...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Sheeesh, nice spam...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
So that is the new mission?
I"ll post some nice pictures of Bush's ass for you next time so you can kiss it since that what you seem to like. You're probably one of those Superman dressing geeks who believe there are superheroes flying around in the sky thats goona rescue us all from the evil ahead. Go watch you movie, read your comic books and kiss Bush's ass Speedy.
Schoolin Since Birth
The mission hasn't changed...we are liberating an Iraq that has never known anything but ruthless tyranny. Insodoing, we are fighting the bastards over there instead of in NooYawk or DeeCee or Anytown, USA. Since 9/11/01, it seems to be working. Regards...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Whatever, RATbot...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
How is fighting them over there supposed to stop them from coming over here? You are just parroting what you heard on TV. You need to turn justice league off and get your head out of Bush's ass. 911 was an inside job. I had a thread up and no one posted one single thread of evidence making the governments case. Not a shred.
was bush lying when he said during 2000 campaing he wasn't into nation building?
New line speedy new line, you couldn't come up to me as a amn so you spew your stupid lines. come back when you aren't wearing your superman underwear genius.
Schoolin Since Birth
Says more about the bias of this Forum than it does about the truth, my friend...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Hah!! I'll stand up face-to-face to any Lib'ral RATbot...they're all gutless weanies. BTW...are you on the Federal dole like most of the rest of the RATS? Figgers...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
The pressing need to liberate Afghanistan and Iraq was not apparent until after 9/11/01...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Damn good article.
"When they come for your guns, it's time to use them."-Anthem
Excellent article.. Amazing. Thanks for posting it. It would appear that the administration is interested in destroying Iraq. We WANT civil war and a fractionalized nation.. we just need to put a happy face on it for as long as possible.
Typical, Speedy thsi is what Bush ass kissers like you do , when someone says anything about it" You're a Liberal" . No Speedy im not even close to being a liberal, the reason you say your stupid little sayings is because you know you have nothing real to say that you can back up. Go back to talking about how great George Bush is, he sends troops without any regard to their families while he claims we are creating a better world, for what him?
Schoolin Since Birth
Sounds to me like yer calling me out, MOD...I was just returning serve...but ask anybody, I'll gladly meet you face-to-face, bigshot...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Hah!! I can back up every single word I write, MOD...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
nice image. I might have to steal it sometime.
that's where I got it..
Where you want to meet me, gonna kick my ass try it! I don't respect your words , do something . You want to meet me to do what, go out on a date(Sorry I don't swing that way) Fight me, or tell me some stupid rhymes. I am so fucking tired of people getting in my face, do something! I will come down to your rathole wherever you at. Im not in the mood for your dumb shit!
Schoolin Since Birth
Back up your words on why bush is justified to still have troops over in iraq and please be original, not the same bullshit line the bush administration tells everyone.
Schoolin Since Birth
I'm sure that would be a walk in the park, but I was referencing debating anyone on this site face-to-face. There are gonna be plenty of opportunities to rally, protest, and/or counterprotest in DeeCee...problem is, nobody here will show up. You'd rather just whine from your very--VERY--private corner of the web. Yeah, yer tough, MOD...BWAHAHAHAHA!! Li'l Jimmy Hoffa's demonstrated that he's a gutless weasel...I expect you to do the same...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Yeah, yer tough, MOD...BWAHAHAHAHA!! Li'l Jimmy Hoffa's demonstrated that he's a gutless weasel...I expect you to do the same...MUD Mud, I just got this in a PM. Are you running that mouth of yours again? First.. I'm not coming to DC just to stomp your pathetic hide. You want it, tough guy? Come to me.. Second... You can't win a debate with me in person or online. You're too stupid. That's why you're on the filter, because you're incapable of anything beyond hurling other peoples slogans and prattling off other peoples soundbytes. Third... Despite your delusional self importance, you're nothing. A nothing. How many hits has your wackoff song thread been getting? None. Because no one wants to listen to you. They're sick of you and your retardation. They laugh at you, and they do it openly. Fourth... I bet you're just as big a loser in person as you are online. The fact that you are too stupid to debate and insist we all drive halfway across the nation to engage you is indicitave of just how little you bring to the table. Now, go back to hammering out your little screeds and whining from the safety of your parents basement. The adults are talking and no one has time to waste with more regurgitated bullshit you heard from Rush Limbaugh. You douche.
Slim if you got time to kick HOffa's ass you got time to go to the border wiht me.
"When they come for your guns, it's time to use them."-Anthem
Are you really going down to help out the Minutemen? I'm impressed, way to go...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
If you want to fight illegals. Go get some pictures of people who hire them. Get their name, address, telephone number etc. I'll host the pics and article about them here. The problem isn't just at the border. It's everywhere the illegals are. They are trying to change our country forever.
Hopefully, in the next three months.
"When they come for your guns, it's time to use them."-Anthem
Good fer you, and I'm serious about that...a very noble cause, imho. Regards...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Who's whining it seems to me that you are the one doing the whining to me, I could find any 12 year old girl who could debate you till you are left the little whimpering fool that you are. She could kick your ass as well, one thing you would have on her is extensive knowledge on marvel comics. You have nothing to say so you come on here and praise Bush for what, name five things he's done that crazy Joe on the street couldn't do. What is Bush doing about the illegals trying to give them amnesty, pathetic. " Come break or laws , be rewarde with citenship, Los Angelas your's, anything else" Go back read you Superman comics Speedy.
Schoolin Since Birth
What regulations do the border patrol agents have to abide by? They get lambasted every time they actually do anything about the illegals, Lose lose situation for them, unfortunatley.
Schoolin Since Birth
And he's losing said fight...the GOP House is driving the train on this issue, the Senate plan failed miserably. So, Bush will sign the BorderSecurity legislation the House writes and the Senate passes...good fer Dubyuh!! M_O_D, yer a whiner...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Keep yer depraved fantasies off this Forum...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
typical bush lover only telling half of the story, you must think about that kind of stuff alot since you would conceive thats what I meant. Pervert, find yourself a woman who doesnt think she's wonderwoman, or an 100 year old who cant see or hear how stupid you are.
Schoolin Since Birth
Not border patrol. Minutemen. I want to work on the wall.
"When they come for your guns, it's time to use them."-Anthem
Already found the only one I'll ever need, pencil-dick...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Grandma doesn't count stupid, stop thinking about dicks speedy.
Schoolin Since Birth
It took you THAT long to come up with THAT?! I'm besieged by MORONS...MUD
Question Conventional Wisdom!!
Some people have other things to do than come up with stupid little sayings, and watching superman. I have to work, I can't spend all day on here like you. By the way how many superman shows did you watch today while you were coming up with your stupid little rants?
Schoolin Since Birth
you cant watch the clip but you can read what he said below
#10. To: A K A Stone (#1)
“I don’t believe that our government will ever allow our military to become involved in a war like Vietnam again,” he told me. “The American people would not stand for it.” Those words would haunt me in the months ahead."
#11. To: master_of_disaster (#9)
#12. To: Mudboy Slim (#10)
to defend themselves and their people from the Islamofascist SCUM who want to take the Mideast back 1000 years!!
#13. To: Mudboy Slim (#11)
Sheeesh, nice spam...MUD
#14. To: A K A Stone (#12)
#15. To: master_of_disaster (#13)
#16. To: Mudboy Slim (#14)
Insodoing, we are fighting the bastards over there instead of in NooYawk or DeeCee or Anytown, USA. Since 9/11/01, it seems to be working.
#17. To: Mudboy Slim (#14)
The mission hasn't changed.
#18. To: Mudboy Slim (#15)
#19. To: A K A Stone (#16)
"911 was an inside job. I had a thread up and no one posted one single thread of evidence making the governments case."
#20. To: master_of_disaster (#18)
"...you couldn't come up to me as a man so you spew your stupid lines"
#21. To: A K A Stone (#17)
"...was bush lying when he said during 2000 campaing he wasn't into nation building?"
#22. To: A K A Stone (#1)
#23. To: A K A Stone (#1)
#24. To: Mudboy Slim (#20)
Hah!! I'll stand up face-to-face to any Lib'ral RATbot...
#25. To: master_of_disaster (#24)
"...you couldn't come up to me as a man so you spew your stupid lines..."
#26. To: master_of_disaster (#24)
"...you have nothing real to say that you can back up."
#27. To: Mudboy Slim (#23)
#28. To: Jhoffa_ (#27)
#29. To: A K A Stone (#28)
#30. To: Mudboy Slim (#25)
I'll gladly meet you face-to-face, bigshot...MUD
#31. To: Mudboy Slim (#25)
#32. To: master_of_disaster, JHoffa_ (#30)
"...gonna kick my ass"
#33. To: Mudboy Slim (#31)
I'm sure that would be a walk in the park, but I was referencing debating anyone on this site face-to-face. There are gonna be plenty of opportunities to rally, protest, and/or counterprotest in DeeCee...problem is, nobody here will show up. You'd rather just whine from your very--VERY--private corner of the web.
#34. To: Mudboy Slim (#32)
#35. To: continental op (#34)
#36. To: Mudboy Slim (#35)
#37. To: Mudboy Slim (#35)
Are you really going down to help out the Minutemen?
#38. To: continental op (#37)
#39. To: Mudboy Slim (#32)
I'm sure that would be a walk in the park, but I was referencing debating anyone on this site face-to-face. There are gonna be plenty of opportunities to rally, protest, and/or counterprotest in DeeCee...problem is, nobody here will show up. You'd rather just whine from your very--VERY--private corner of the web.
#40. To: continental op (#34)
go to the border wiht me.
#41. To: master_of_disaster (#39)
"What is Bush doing about the illegals trying to give them amnesty, pathetic."
#42. To: master_of_disaster (#39)
"I could find any 12 year old girl..."
#43. To: Mudboy Slim (#42)
#44. To: master_of_disaster (#40)
#45. To: master_of_disaster (#43)
"find yourself a woman"
#46. To: Mudboy Slim (#45)
Already found the only one I'll ever need, pencil-dick...MUD
#47. To: master_of_disaster (#46)
#48. To: Mudboy Slim (#47)
It took you THAT long to come up with THAT?!
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