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Title: Housing Numbers - Are They Being Cooked? (No shit)
Source: The Market Ticker
URL Source: http://market-ticker.org/
Published: Sep 1, 2010
Author: Karl Denninger
Post Date: 2010-09-01 23:28:09 by Nebuchadnezzar
Keywords: None
Views: 5515
Comments: 8

Housing Numbers - Are They Being Cooked?

I have a very disturbing email that came in this evening.

It alleges out-and-out fraudulent reporting of home sales in one of the regional MLS systems.

That is, prices paid that are in fact much lower than the "sold" prices reported in the MLS.

The person in question claims to have seen over 100 of these in his area. I have copies of two, and it appears, from the evidence that I have, that at least for those two the claim is accurate.

One in particular I was able to pull the auction data on. It "sold" under reserve, is listed as sold in the MLS at ~25% higher than the "sold" bid, and the premium is disclosed as 5%. This property also has a 90-day "anti-flip" provision on it, implying that the paper may be held by one of the GSEs. (It's a nice-looking place, incidentally.)

Here's the problem, obviously - Case-Schiller and other "home statistics" numbers related to price paid are all computed off these numbers provided by the local Realty boards (via NAR.) If the data in the MLS is bogus then so is the so-called "median sales price" and so are Case-Schiller's numbers!

These are not small discrepancies either - in both cases the "over-reporting" is by approximately 25%!

Both subject properties sent to me were auctions.

I am going to dig into this - if this can be verified and is happening nationally the claims of recent price stabilization are utter crap, and the first obvious question that arises is "how far back does this go?"

It also raises a key question when it comes to BPOs, not only from a standpoint of bank valuations (e.g. "drive-bys") but additionally if you're buying a house and your agent is showing you comparable sales predicated on faulty MLS data you are going to be induced to RADICALLY overpay.

For the time being I would verify any claimed "sold" prices with the county recorder before believing any alleged "sold" prices you're being fed as comparables.

This might be an anomaly, an "isolated incident", or it may not be what it appears to be, but with a 25% disparity we're not talking small potatoes if this is accurate.

I'll post follow-up Tickers on this as I learn more.....


Poster comment: Of course they're being cooked. How could the Shiller Index show rising prices at a time when we've had the worst home sale numbers in the recorded history of home sales???

This government is nothing but a pack a lies. Lies wrapped in riddles and corn flakes.

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#1. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#0) (Edited)

So he received an anonymous email that he can't verify and it's proof of what again?

BTW, GSE's holding paper has zipola to do with why it can't be flipped.

war  posted on  2010-09-02   9:13:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: war (#1)

So he received an anonymous email that he can't verify and it's proof of what again?

BTW, GSE's holding paper has zipola to do with why it can't be flipped.

Think this through War; three consecutive, horrific sales months, worst ever, yet prices went up.

Did you take Econ?

Clinton and Cuomo are the true bandits who lit the fuse to this economic crisis we're now in. All in the name of getting more minorities in houses: http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=12554

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-09-02   9:26:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#2)

Think this through War; three consecutive, horrific sales months, worst ever, yet prices went up.

Yea so?

The possibility that the market is comprised mostly of WEATHY people buying HIGHER END homes never occurred to you?

war  posted on  2010-09-02   9:33:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: war (#3)

The possibility that the market is comprised mostly of WEATHY people buying HIGHER END homes never occurred to you?

Yes, I thought of that, but the high-end market homes weren't purchased. Terrible high-end sales.

Clinton and Cuomo are the true bandits who lit the fuse to this economic crisis we're now in. All in the name of getting more minorities in houses: http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=12554

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-09-02   10:24:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#4) (Edited)

Yes, I thought of that, but the high-end market homes weren't purchased. Terrible high-end sales.

????

I'm actually seeing the opposite which is why I raised it as an issue.

war  posted on  2010-09-02   10:28:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: war (#5)

Yes, I thought of that, but the high-end market homes weren't purchased. Terrible high-end sales.

????

I'm actually seeing the opposite which is why I raised it as an issue.

I post on either Friday or Saturday about the near zero number of homes sold last month over $750K.

Clinton and Cuomo are the true bandits who lit the fuse to this economic crisis we're now in. All in the name of getting more minorities in houses: http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=12554

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-09-02   10:30:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#6) (Edited)

Yea so? Standard defintiion of "high end" is median price +28%.

war  posted on  2010-09-02   10:40:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#6) (Edited)

I post on either Friday or Saturday about the near zero number of homes sold last month over $750K.

I looked at the housing sales report in my own county, 18 over that number in July alone. I believe in August 10 had closed by the 18th. But I do see alot more for sale signs in the areas north of here especially in overbuilt subdivisions approved by counties needing quick property tax fixes.

"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"

The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.

mininggold  posted on  2010-09-02   10:53:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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