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Title: Homeowner’s Fight Involves Gadsden Flag Tied to Tea Party
Source:
NYTIMES
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/us/politics/31flag.html?_r=1&hp
Published: Aug 31, 2010
Author: MARC LACEY
Post Date: 2010-08-31 12:40:27 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 160879
Comments: 228
LAVEEN, Ariz. — Don’t tread on Andy C. McDonel. This year, Mr. McDonel began flying a yellow “Don’t Tread on Me” flag on his roof in this unincorporated area just outside Phoenix. The historic banner — which dates to 1775, when it was hoisted aboard ships during the initial days of the Revolutionary War — has been adopted by the Tea Party movement. But Mr. McDonel said that he had unfurled the flag for its historical significance and nothing else. He notes that the banner, the Gadsden flag, has been widely used over the years and was even featured on the cover of a rock album. “Am I a Metallica fan because I’m using the flag?” he asked. This month, he received a letter from the homeowners’ association ordering him to remove “the debris” from his roof. It threatened fines if the debris (i.e., the flag) did not go within 10 days. But Mr. McDonel, 32, a logistics operation manager, has vowed to fight the order. “It’s a patriotic gesture,” he said of his banner. “It’s a historic military flag. It represents the founding fathers. It shows this nation was born out of an idea.” The Avalon Village Community Association, which sent the letter, takes a strict interpretation of the state statute that allows Arizonans the right to fly a variety of flags — the Stars and Stripes, the state flag, flags representing Indian nations as well as the official flags of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard. The listing of acceptable flags stems from a dispute several years ago in nearby Chandler, Ariz., in which a woman with a son serving in Iraq was challenged by her homeowners’ association for flying the Marine Corps flag. State legislators intervened. The Arizona law, says the homeowners’ association butting heads with Mr. McDonel, does not give residents authorization to fly anything else on their properties. That means no pennants bearing sports team logos, no Jolly Rogers, no rainbow banners celebrating gay pride and no historic flags showing a coiled rattlesnake bearing its fangs. As Javier B. Delgado, a lawyer for the homeowners’ association, put it in a statement on the association’s Web site: “Should the Arizona Legislature expand the Community Association Flag Display Statute to include the Gadsden Flag, the Association will accommodate Mr. McDonel’s desire to display it. Bottom-line, anyone considering residing in a community association should carefully review the association’s governing documents beforehand to ensure that the community is a good fit for them.” Mr. McDonel knows the rules well since, until July, he was a member of his homeowners’ association’s board of directors. He resigned in a dispute with the board’s president and shortly thereafter received his first debris notice. That one concerned a treadmill that he had left on his porch, which he admits was a violation of the rules. His second debris warning, which came weeks after that, concerned the flag, which had been up for about six months. “If this is a grudge, it’s sad that the funds that the homeowners put into the association are being wasted on such a petty matter,” Mr. McDonel said. Mr. Delgado, whose law firm represents thousands of homeowners’ associations, denies that any dispute among board members led to the citation of Mr. McDonel’s property. “There is still the potential for dialogue on both sides,” he said, indicating that no fines had yet been levied. The homeowners’ association represents a community of tract homes in what had been a sprawling agricultural area. A survey of Mr. McDonel’s neighbors after the dispute drew the attention of the local news media revealed more concern about the television trucks that have been parking in front of his property than the flag flapping on his roof. After Mr. McDonel’s standoff was picked up by the media, the American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona jumped in on Mr. McDonel’s side, arguing that homeowners’ associations do not have the right to “hijack” the free speech rights of their members. The A.C.L.U. fired off a letter to the association on Monday that seeks a meeting with Mr. Delgado to resolve the matter without going as far as a lawsuit. “We’re urging the homeowners’ association to adopt a less limited interpretation of the statute,” said Dan Pochoda, the legal director for the civil liberties group. “The Gadsden flag meets the spirit of the law. It’s a historic military flag. Many consider it the original American flag, before the Stars and Stripes.” As for the political significance that the flag has taken on in this election season, Mr. Pochoda was uninterested, saying that Mr. McDonel’s motivation for flying the flag was irrelevant to the dispute. “We didn’t ask him,” Mr. Pochoda said. As the flag becomes more popular — it was on prominent display on the Washington Mall last weekend during a rally organized by the conservative commentator Glenn Beck — more such disputes are expected. Already, a Colorado homeowner flying the same flag is locked in a standoff with his homeowners’ association. And in Connecticut, a group of retired Marines is challenging the Capitol Police’s decision blocking the Gadsden flag from being flown over the State Capitol.
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#45. To: Suzanne (#41)
He's trying to ban you by setting up a flame war. Pretty soon he'll tell you to not post to him and then he will post: YOU'VE BEEN WARNED. LOLOL
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
You made me laugh there. That was funny wasn't it. It was only 5 min don't get your panties in a wad.
There are, in fact, several...
No this is just something I feel strongly about. If you buy a property you should be able to do what you want with it. Now if you open a place for the public then some building standards are appropriate.
There are, in fact, several... If you knew the constitution and read my statement on the FIRST line you would know that I said truthfully that any law that violates the constitution is not really a law. So my comment stands.
You sound like the one who needs to have your children removed. I'm can't help but think you ambush them constantly for your own amusement, since you seem so adept at it.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
You haven't reproduced, have you?
You're a jerk.
#46. To: mininggold (#45)
Pretty soon he'll tell you to not post to him and then he will post: YOU'VE BEEN WARNED. LOLOL
#47. To: A K A Stone (#37)
There is no law that says you can't discriminate against someone in renting selling or whatever.
#48. To: mininggold (#45)
He's trying to ban you by setting up a flame war.
#49. To: war (#47)
There is no law that says you can't discriminate against someone in renting selling or whatever.
#50. To: A K A Stone (#46)
You made me laugh there. That was funny wasn't it. It was only 5 min don't get your panties in a wad.
#51. To: A K A Stone (#49)
"Lets [sic] rent a room." ~ Tull to Rotara
#52. To: A K A Stone (#40)
What part of "I didn't sign the HOA contract" did you not understand? I didn't like those types of mommy and daddy rules. If I want a red door, I'll have one (and I do). That's because I opted for a single family home that is not subject to HOA rules. I exercised my freedom and you call me a commie. Yeah, sure. Why don't you come back with more petty insults directed at my parent(s)/child(ren)?
You would be happy if 100 percent of neighborhoods in America had homeowners associations.
#53. To: mininggold (#50)
It wasn't for my amusement. I made a decision then thought about it and changed my mind.
#54. To: A K A Stone (#49)
Your original comment betrays the same ignorance that your last one did. There are several, they are constitutional and if you don;t believe me I invite you to try to so discriminate.
#55. To: Fred Mertz (#51)
multiple times.
#56. To: A K A Stone (#49)
So my comment stands. Good, so do you want the beef operation or the dairy next to you? I'll build it up like a parking garage. I take it the skies the limit because it's my property.
f you knew the constitution and read my statement on the FIRST line you would know that I said truthfully that any law that violates the constitution is not really a law.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#57. To: A K A Stone (#53)
Did it set off the smoke alarms?
...then thought about it...
#58. To: war (#54)
I already do discriminate. I never hire fags. I never rent to fags.
#59. To: war (#47)
Apparently, for some people, the Fair Housing Act just doesn't exist.
There are, in fact, several...
#60. To: A K A Stone (#58)
How do you know?
#61. To: mininggold (#56)
If that is what you want to do and you have the funds. Go for it. Would you maybe hire my kids? They are hard workers.
#62. To: Suzanne (#59)
It violates the constitution so it isn't a legitimate law. It is known as color of law. It may take money out of your pocket like law or put you in jail like law, but it is still actually color of law.
Apparently, for some people, the Fair Housing Act just doesn't exist.
#63. To: war (#60)
I inject them with truth juice.
How do you know?
#64. To: war (#57)
Did it set off the smoke alarms? No smoke alarms. I just thought I made a mistake and corrected it.
...then thought about it...
#65. To: A K A Stone (#61)
I think five stories should be about right, evidently you never heard or smelled a cow operation. Most of the smell actually comes from the fermentation of the silage, which allows cows better utilization of the feed. It sticks to clothing like glue too.
If that is what you want to do and you have the funds. Go for it. Would you maybe hire my kids? They are hard workers.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#66. To: mininggold (#65)
Awesome. I have a truck. Maybe I can deliver it for you. I know the area and have a GPS.
#67. To: A K A Stone (#66) (Edited)
You have a cattle hauler? First things first though. The state of the art facility will be a needing building, but I bet you can't get your county to waive it's zoning laws. Maybe you can go down and wave that constitution in front of their noses though. That surely will clinch the deal.
Awesome. I have a truck. Maybe I can deliver it for you. I know the area and have a GPS.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#68. To: mininggold, A K A Stone (#65)
Make sure they sign an employment contract...
Would you maybe hire my kids?
#69. To: mininggold (#67)
My Uncle does. We will have to give him a cut. He lives outside Jamestown. Not to far away.
You have a cattle hauler?
#70. To: A K A Stone (#64)
{;^D
I just thought I made a mistake and corrected it.
#71. To: mininggold (#67)
Haven't you seen the area yet? Before you made this proposal you should have looked up where I am. You are going to have to buy these houses around me and have them demolished first. That is going to be costly. But no problem I know people in the area and I can do the work for you. I will need the money in advance.
First things first though.
#72. To: A K A Stone (#62)
How so?
It violates the constitution so it isn't a legitimate law.
#73. To: war (#72)
The 10th amendment.
How so?
#74. To: All (#73)
And remember. Since the 10th was passed after the constitution and the first 9 amendments. It trumps them all.
#75. To: A K A Stone (#71)
How would I know where you live? Do you think I'm Badeye? I will pay after the work is done. I hope I can put the facility right up to the property line. Up wind would be best. My cows hate the smell of stinky boys.
Haven't you seen the area yet? Before you made this proposal you should have looked up where I am. You are going to have to buy these houses around me and have them demolished first. That is going to be costly. But no problem I know people in the area and I can do the work for you. I will need the money in advance
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#76. To: mininggold (#75)
Are you trying to say you have fat daughters
My cows hate the smell of stinky boys.
#77. To: A K A Stone (#76)
Teenage boys generally go through a stinky phase.
Are you trying to say you have fat daughters
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#78. To: A K A Stone (#73)
What about it? You believe that a) there is a right to deny or disparage the inalienable right of the pursuit of happiness and b) that it lies in the 10th amendment?
#79. To: A K A Stone (#63)
Sniffing...backing away slowly...
I inject them with truth juice.
#80. To: war (#78)
I KNOW you have a right to sell your property to whomever you want to. I know that when you own property you can do what you want with it (if we had lawful govt). I am not responsible for someone Else's happiness. It would infringe on my right of pursuit of happiness to force me to sell to someone I didn't want to or to tell me what to do with my property. As long as I'm not murdering people on it. You people are weirdos. You think there is a right to murder your offspring. And you think you don't have a right to private property.
#81. To: A K A Stone, war (#73)
So...it's a states right thing. OK. HOA contracts are subject to state statues; therefore, they don't violate the constitution and are in harmony with the 10th Amendment. BTW, states, too, have fair housing laws.
The 10th amendment.
#82. To: Suzanne (#81)
You're being disingenuous. You know the 10th says the states or the PEOPLE.
#83. To: A K A Stone (#80)
When you are conducting a transaction, it's not a private property issue. Property is what it is...ownership...commerce is what it is, too...an entirely separate issue. And abortion is your "Goodwin's Law". Is your body YOUR private property?
#84. To: A K A Stone (#80)
Here's a little snippet of Ohio (not my state) fair housing laws: (These laws appear to be on the books in most [if not all] of the states) In 1965, Ohio became one of the first states to enact Fair Housing Legislation. On June 30, 1992, Governor George Voinovich signed House Bill 321, which enacted changes in the classes of persons protected by the Ohio Fair Housing Law, and significantly enhanced the enforcement powers of The Ohio Civil Rights Commission. The law gives all persons in the protected classes the right to live wherever they can afford to buy a home or rent an apartment. It is unlawful on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin or ancestry, disability, or familial status to: a. refuse to rent, sell, finance, or insure housing accommodations or residential property b. represent to any person that housing accommodations are not available for inspection, sale, rental or lease c. refuse to lend money for the purchase, construction, repair, rehabilitation, or maintenance of housing accommodations or residential property d. discriminate against any person in the purchase, renewal, or terms and conditions of fire, extended coverage, or home owner’s or renter’s insurance e. refuse to consider without prejudice the combined income of both spouses. f. print, publish, or circulate any statement or advertisement which would indicate a preference or limitation. g. deny any person membership in any multiple listing services, or real estate broker’s organization.
I KNOW you have a right to sell your property to whomever you want to. I know that when you own property you can do what you want with it
#85. To: Suzanne (#84)
trumped by the constitution.
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