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Title: Homeowner’s Fight Involves Gadsden Flag Tied to Tea Party
Source:
NYTIMES
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/us/politics/31flag.html?_r=1&hp
Published: Aug 31, 2010
Author: MARC LACEY
Post Date: 2010-08-31 12:40:27 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 160882
Comments: 228
LAVEEN, Ariz. — Don’t tread on Andy C. McDonel. This year, Mr. McDonel began flying a yellow “Don’t Tread on Me” flag on his roof in this unincorporated area just outside Phoenix. The historic banner — which dates to 1775, when it was hoisted aboard ships during the initial days of the Revolutionary War — has been adopted by the Tea Party movement. But Mr. McDonel said that he had unfurled the flag for its historical significance and nothing else. He notes that the banner, the Gadsden flag, has been widely used over the years and was even featured on the cover of a rock album. “Am I a Metallica fan because I’m using the flag?” he asked. This month, he received a letter from the homeowners’ association ordering him to remove “the debris” from his roof. It threatened fines if the debris (i.e., the flag) did not go within 10 days. But Mr. McDonel, 32, a logistics operation manager, has vowed to fight the order. “It’s a patriotic gesture,” he said of his banner. “It’s a historic military flag. It represents the founding fathers. It shows this nation was born out of an idea.” The Avalon Village Community Association, which sent the letter, takes a strict interpretation of the state statute that allows Arizonans the right to fly a variety of flags — the Stars and Stripes, the state flag, flags representing Indian nations as well as the official flags of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard. The listing of acceptable flags stems from a dispute several years ago in nearby Chandler, Ariz., in which a woman with a son serving in Iraq was challenged by her homeowners’ association for flying the Marine Corps flag. State legislators intervened. The Arizona law, says the homeowners’ association butting heads with Mr. McDonel, does not give residents authorization to fly anything else on their properties. That means no pennants bearing sports team logos, no Jolly Rogers, no rainbow banners celebrating gay pride and no historic flags showing a coiled rattlesnake bearing its fangs. As Javier B. Delgado, a lawyer for the homeowners’ association, put it in a statement on the association’s Web site: “Should the Arizona Legislature expand the Community Association Flag Display Statute to include the Gadsden Flag, the Association will accommodate Mr. McDonel’s desire to display it. Bottom-line, anyone considering residing in a community association should carefully review the association’s governing documents beforehand to ensure that the community is a good fit for them.” Mr. McDonel knows the rules well since, until July, he was a member of his homeowners’ association’s board of directors. He resigned in a dispute with the board’s president and shortly thereafter received his first debris notice. That one concerned a treadmill that he had left on his porch, which he admits was a violation of the rules. His second debris warning, which came weeks after that, concerned the flag, which had been up for about six months. “If this is a grudge, it’s sad that the funds that the homeowners put into the association are being wasted on such a petty matter,” Mr. McDonel said. Mr. Delgado, whose law firm represents thousands of homeowners’ associations, denies that any dispute among board members led to the citation of Mr. McDonel’s property. “There is still the potential for dialogue on both sides,” he said, indicating that no fines had yet been levied. The homeowners’ association represents a community of tract homes in what had been a sprawling agricultural area. A survey of Mr. McDonel’s neighbors after the dispute drew the attention of the local news media revealed more concern about the television trucks that have been parking in front of his property than the flag flapping on his roof. After Mr. McDonel’s standoff was picked up by the media, the American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona jumped in on Mr. McDonel’s side, arguing that homeowners’ associations do not have the right to “hijack” the free speech rights of their members. The A.C.L.U. fired off a letter to the association on Monday that seeks a meeting with Mr. Delgado to resolve the matter without going as far as a lawsuit. “We’re urging the homeowners’ association to adopt a less limited interpretation of the statute,” said Dan Pochoda, the legal director for the civil liberties group. “The Gadsden flag meets the spirit of the law. It’s a historic military flag. Many consider it the original American flag, before the Stars and Stripes.” As for the political significance that the flag has taken on in this election season, Mr. Pochoda was uninterested, saying that Mr. McDonel’s motivation for flying the flag was irrelevant to the dispute. “We didn’t ask him,” Mr. Pochoda said. As the flag becomes more popular — it was on prominent display on the Washington Mall last weekend during a rally organized by the conservative commentator Glenn Beck — more such disputes are expected. Already, a Colorado homeowner flying the same flag is locked in a standoff with his homeowners’ association. And in Connecticut, a group of retired Marines is challenging the Capitol Police’s decision blocking the Gadsden flag from being flown over the State Capitol.
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#28. To: A K A Stone (#24)
The people in that area say different and have the ability to make laws and enforce their desires and wants (pursuing their own happiness), even if that means abridging their property rights. Who are you to say they are wrong? Unless he was forced to buy his home he was free to look elsewhere and exercise HIS freedom of association.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
Again, you're being silly and reactionary. Contracts can't violate laws. But stupid HOA contracts can make lawful rules about controlling the appearance of the property, which doesn't include the color of the people living there. It's all about conformity. And I expressed my freedom by not signing the contract. BTW, when arguing with me, I wish you'd have the decency to keep my parents/child out of the discussion. It's irrelevant and tacky.
The dictator of his own forum now thinks he's the dictator of the country. LOLOL
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??" The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
LOL...I'm going to prison for sure....how many years do you get for this offense?
So stop playing with yourself, jerx.
Wait until Badeye and Tull learn about this. They'll be combat pistoling for position. LOLOL
They are violating private property rights. If they want to rent out the property and make rules fine. If they sell the property they no longer have a say so. That is the way it is suppposed to work. Until people who think like you commies got some power. Why do you hate private property rights?
#29. To: A K A Stone (#22)
Then you think someone should be able to say no blacks in the contract?
#30. To: Fred Mertz (#27)
Quit being an asshole, Stoner.
#31. To: Suzanne (#18)
"Just try having sex on the front lawn and see what comes of that."
#32. To: Fred Mertz (#26)
Gawd! I think I'm going blind!!!
#33. To: Murron (#31)
"Lets [sic] rent a room." ~ Tull to Rotara
#34. To: Murron (#31)
You'll probably just pay a fine...but think of the cost if that image "goes viral." :>)
LOL...I'm going to prison for sure....how many years do you get for this offense?
#35. To: hondo68 (#11)
Is there a cogent interrogatory that you have for me?
So a standard of landscaping, no blacks on the landscape is OK with you?
#36. To: war (#35)
Mammy having sex in her front yard. What is your reaction?
Is there a cogent interrogatory that you have for me?
"Lets [sic] rent a room." ~ Tull to Rotara
#37. To: Suzanne (#29)
The constitution is the supreme law of the land. Any law that doesn't conform isn't a law. There is no law that says you can't discriminate against someone in renting selling or whatever. When you OWN property it is yours to do as you please with. Commies disagree. You must be a commie. I hope if you have kids you aren't teaching them your ignorance.
Contracts can't violate laws.
#38. To: A K A Stone (#37) (Edited)
All zoning laws are illegal? I think I'll buy the prop next to yours and open an outdoor 24 hour shooting range, raise roosters or run a cattle feedlot..
When you OWN property it is yours to do as you please with.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#39. To: Fred Mertz (#36)
Thankfully her front yard is 2 miles away from any road...
#40. To: Suzanne (#29)
You would be happy if 100 percent of neighborhoods in America had homeowners associations. Then they could do away with the constitution. That is your position if you realize it or not.
#41. To: A K A Stone (#37)
You're a jerk.
#42. To: mininggold (#38)
There isn't room. Sorry about your luck. Maybe you could buy some neighbors house and do that. It is your right. As long as no stray bullets go my way. If that happened I would consider it an attack and aim for heads.
#43. To: Suzanne (#41)
So I disagree with you and I'm a jerk. Ok whatever.
#44. To: A K A Stone (#43)
She was being polite. You're an asshole.
So I disagree with you and I'm a jerk.
"Lets [sic] rent a room." ~ Tull to Rotara
#45. To: Suzanne (#41)
He's trying to ban you by setting up a flame war. Pretty soon he'll tell you to not post to him and then he will post: YOU'VE BEEN WARNED. LOLOL
You're a jerk.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#46. To: mininggold (#45)
You made me laugh there. That was funny wasn't it. It was only 5 min don't get your panties in a wad.
Pretty soon he'll tell you to not post to him and then he will post: YOU'VE BEEN WARNED. LOLOL
#47. To: A K A Stone (#37)
There are, in fact, several...
There is no law that says you can't discriminate against someone in renting selling or whatever.
#48. To: mininggold (#45)
No this is just something I feel strongly about. If you buy a property you should be able to do what you want with it. Now if you open a place for the public then some building standards are appropriate.
He's trying to ban you by setting up a flame war.
#49. To: war (#47)
There are, in fact, several... If you knew the constitution and read my statement on the FIRST line you would know that I said truthfully that any law that violates the constitution is not really a law. So my comment stands.
There is no law that says you can't discriminate against someone in renting selling or whatever.
#50. To: A K A Stone (#46)
You sound like the one who needs to have your children removed. I'm can't help but think you ambush them constantly for your own amusement, since you seem so adept at it.
You made me laugh there. That was funny wasn't it. It was only 5 min don't get your panties in a wad.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#51. To: A K A Stone (#49)
You haven't reproduced, have you?
"Lets [sic] rent a room." ~ Tull to Rotara
#52. To: A K A Stone (#40)
What part of "I didn't sign the HOA contract" did you not understand? I didn't like those types of mommy and daddy rules. If I want a red door, I'll have one (and I do). That's because I opted for a single family home that is not subject to HOA rules. I exercised my freedom and you call me a commie. Yeah, sure. Why don't you come back with more petty insults directed at my parent(s)/child(ren)?
You would be happy if 100 percent of neighborhoods in America had homeowners associations.
#53. To: mininggold (#50)
It wasn't for my amusement. I made a decision then thought about it and changed my mind.
#54. To: A K A Stone (#49)
Your original comment betrays the same ignorance that your last one did. There are several, they are constitutional and if you don;t believe me I invite you to try to so discriminate.
#55. To: Fred Mertz (#51)
multiple times.
#56. To: A K A Stone (#49)
So my comment stands. Good, so do you want the beef operation or the dairy next to you? I'll build it up like a parking garage. I take it the skies the limit because it's my property.
f you knew the constitution and read my statement on the FIRST line you would know that I said truthfully that any law that violates the constitution is not really a law.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#57. To: A K A Stone (#53)
Did it set off the smoke alarms?
...then thought about it...
#58. To: war (#54)
I already do discriminate. I never hire fags. I never rent to fags.
#59. To: war (#47)
Apparently, for some people, the Fair Housing Act just doesn't exist.
There are, in fact, several...
#60. To: A K A Stone (#58)
How do you know?
#61. To: mininggold (#56)
If that is what you want to do and you have the funds. Go for it. Would you maybe hire my kids? They are hard workers.
#62. To: Suzanne (#59)
It violates the constitution so it isn't a legitimate law. It is known as color of law. It may take money out of your pocket like law or put you in jail like law, but it is still actually color of law.
Apparently, for some people, the Fair Housing Act just doesn't exist.
#63. To: war (#60)
I inject them with truth juice.
How do you know?
#64. To: war (#57)
Did it set off the smoke alarms? No smoke alarms. I just thought I made a mistake and corrected it.
...then thought about it...
#65. To: A K A Stone (#61)
I think five stories should be about right, evidently you never heard or smelled a cow operation. Most of the smell actually comes from the fermentation of the silage, which allows cows better utilization of the feed. It sticks to clothing like glue too.
If that is what you want to do and you have the funds. Go for it. Would you maybe hire my kids? They are hard workers.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#66. To: mininggold (#65)
Awesome. I have a truck. Maybe I can deliver it for you. I know the area and have a GPS.
#67. To: A K A Stone (#66) (Edited)
You have a cattle hauler? First things first though. The state of the art facility will be a needing building, but I bet you can't get your county to waive it's zoning laws. Maybe you can go down and wave that constitution in front of their noses though. That surely will clinch the deal.
Awesome. I have a truck. Maybe I can deliver it for you. I know the area and have a GPS.
"Look you leftist pervert, make sure you keep your Mr Winky away from your family's new addition or I will send some fellow salad tossers to square away your sorry butt. Got it??"
The good "cop", Jethro Tull explaining how to prevent a Palin family tradition in YOUR family.
#68. To: mininggold, A K A Stone (#65)
Make sure they sign an employment contract...
Would you maybe hire my kids?
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