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Title: Weekly Jobless Claims Post Surprise Jump, Hit 500,000 (More proof stimulus a failure)
Source: CNBC
URL Source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/38768328
Published: Aug 19, 2010
Author: NA
Post Date: 2010-08-19 09:25:45 by Nebuchadnezzar
Keywords: None
Views: 81811
Comments: 138

Weekly Jobless Claims Post Surprise Jump, Hit 500,000 Published: Thursday, 19 Aug 2010 | 9:05 AM ET Text Size By: Reuters

New U.S. claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly climbed to a nine-month high last week, yet another setback to the frail economic recovery.

Initial claims for state unemployment benefits increased 12,000 to a seasonally adjusted 500,000 in the week ended August 14, the highest since mid-November, the Labor Department said on Thursday.

Analysts polled by Reuters had forecast claims slipping to 476,000 from the previously reported 484,000 the prior week, which was revised up to 488,000 in Thursday's report.

A Labor Department official said there was nothing unusual in the state level data. The data covered the survey week for the government's closely watched employment report for August, scheduled for release early next month.

"There are some technical factors out there and the seasonal factors seem to be pushing it up a little bit. But given the trend of claims it looks like the economy ran into a wall in August," said Chris Rupkey, chief financial economist at Bank of Tokyo-MitsubishI UFJ in New York.

U.S. stock index futures turned negative after the report, while Treasury debt prices pared losses. The dollar fell against the yen.

A 9.5 percent unemployment rate and weak housing market are hobbling the economy's recovery from its most brutal recession since the Great Depression.

The economy's poor health has handed President Barack Obama a tough challenge and put at risk the Democratic Party's majorities in the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate in November's mid-term elections.

Obama's approval ratings have tumbled to the mid- to lower 40 percent range and Congress' ratings are hovering at about 20 percent.

The four-week average of new jobless claims, considered a better measure of underlying labor market trends as it irons out week-to-week volatility, rose 8,000 to 482,500, the highest since early December.

Claims for unemployment benefits have been stuck at lofty levels for much of this year, which many economists say points to unemployment staying uncomfortably high for some time.

Claims have not come close to the 400,000 level that most analysts generally view as the dividing line between payrolls growth and contraction. Payrolls grew in the first five months of this year, partly due to hiring for the decennial census, and have declined in both June and July.

The economy grew at a 2.4 percent annualized rate in the second quarter, much slower than the 3.7 percent pace in the first three months of the year.

However, recent trade and business inventory data have indicated a much more sluggish pace. According to a preliminary Reuters survey, the government could lower the second-quarter growth estimate to a rate of about 1.4 percent when it publishes its first revision next Friday.

The number of people still receiving jobless benefits after an initial week of aid fell 13,000 to 4.48 million in the week ended Aug. 7 from an upwardly revised 4.49 million the prior week. Analysts polled by Reuters had forecast so-called continuing claims rising to 4.50 million from a previously reported 4.45 million.

"The drop in continued claims is an encouraging sign," said Robert Dye, senior economist at PNC Financial Services in Pittsburgh.

"When you take the life signs on the labor market, it's not all bad news, but it's not where we would like," he added.

The insured unemployment rate, which measures the percentage of the insured labor force that is jobless, was unchanged at 3.5 percent during that period.

The number of people on emergency benefits increased 260,105 to 4.75 million in the week ended July 31.

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#24. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#8)

All you care about is throwing big numbers around, failing to reveal that many of those "jobs" were census jobs and other make-work jobs.

The last jobs report for july showed a drop in government employment and a gain in private sector employment.

Do you not see this as a positive trend?


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   10:46:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: go65 (#21)

NABE: 83 percent say stimulus raised GDP

Of course government spending raises GDP. DUH! Did you ever see the formula for how GDP is calculated????

If you spent enough via the USG you could have 10% quarterly GDP growth.

Is that what you're advocating?

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   10:47:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#22)

This one, moron...

war  posted on  2010-08-19   10:48:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: mcgowanjm (#12)

As long as we keep seeing the words 'unexpected', 'surprise'in these jobs titles, the economy is still contracting...

This is our third "jobless recovery" from recession in a row. It looks like a growing economy doesn't necessarily mean job creation any more.

The first jobless recovery occurred before Clinton signed NAFTA into law.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   10:52:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: go65 (#24)

The last jobs report for july showed a drop in government employment and a gain in private sector employment.

Do you not see this as a positive trend?

If I remember, some 70,000 private sector jobs were created.

You need a minimum of 150,000 PS jobs to be created to account for all the new people entering the work-force.

No, your paltry 70,000 isn't even half the number needed to stay at zero growth.

500,000 lost their jobs just last week. That comes to 2,000,000 a month.

Just admit it, stimulus after stimulus after stimulus has failed.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   10:53:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: war (#26)

This one, moron...

No, wrong. The entire point of the stimulus was to get people back to work and keep UE below 8%.

It has failed. Obama promised that UE would remain below 8% IF WE PASSED THE STIMULUS.

You always want to forget that part. Why are you afraid to discuss this?

Secondly, don't insult me. I treat you with respect, you treat me with respect.

Got that? If you can't speak respectfully to me, don't bother speaking to me at all because I just won't see it.

Got that?

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   10:56:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: go65 (#24)

Do you not see this as a positive trend?

One month is a trend????

Give me 5 or 6 months and then we'll talk.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   10:57:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#29)

Got that? If you can't speak respectfully to me, don't bother speaking to me at all because I just won't see it.

So what's your alternative? What can you tell us to convince us that the GOP can do better given that the last month they were in power we lost 700k jobs and last month we gained 41k jobs.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   10:58:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#30)

One month is a trend????

Give me 5 or 6 months and then we'll talk.

We've added private sector jobs just about every month this year, meanwhile the last month of the Bush administration saw a loss of 700,000 private sector jobs.

So why do you want to go back to 700,000 jobs lost?


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   10:59:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#28)

Just admit it, stimulus after stimulus after stimulus has failed.

What's your alternative?


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   10:59:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#0) (Edited)

This is only a surprise to the myopic morons who are isolated from the real world in the D.C. beltway, state capitals, or ivy league universities.

To the rest of us, it has been obvious all along that there isn't any recovery. I saw a tiny bit of increased economy activity staring in April. It died by July.

Mark my words, next year will be much worse than even 2009. We won't come out of this until the federal government and state governments put their fiscal affairs in order by cutting spending. They should start by eliminating the lavish retirement plans for government bureaucrats. Put them all on 401Ks, where they have to save their own money, like the rest of us.

How many of you think that the politicians will do that voluntarily?

jwpegler  posted on  2010-08-19   11:04:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: jwpegler (#34)

To the rest of us, it has been obvious all along that there isn't any recovery. I saw a tiny bit of increased economy activity staring in April. It died by July.

Our company is having the best year since 2007, but we aren't hiring even though we could. Why? We can't get a line of credit so we don't want to put ourselves in a situation where if there is a fall-off, we would have to again lay people off. However, if the rest of this year goes as well as the first seven months, we probably will add staff in November or December.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   11:06:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: jwpegler (#34)

Mark my words, next year will be much worse than even 2009. We won't come out of this until the federal governments and state governments put their fiscal affairs in order by cutting spending

If you truly believe that cutting spending will improve the economy, you need to look at Greece, Ireland, and the Baltics, as well as the U.S. around 1937.

Cutting spending will cut the legs out from the economy, increasing unemployment, increasing the deficit, and reducing tax revenues even further. That's what has happened in every country that has tried austerity during a recession.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   11:08:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#28)

Just admit it, stimulus after stimulus after stimulus has failed.

So where would we be without the stimulus? If you can't answer that, you can't claim it failed.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   11:21:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: go65 (#32)

We've added private sector jobs just about every month this year, meanwhile the last month of the Bush administration saw a loss of 700,000 private sector jobs.

So why do you want to go back to 700,000 jobs lost?

It is better to lose 700K a month without stealing from the future generations than lose 2,000,000 a month and stealing from the future generations with failed stimuli.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   11:24:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: lucysmom (#37)

So where would we be without the stimulus? If you can't answer that, you can't claim it failed.

The definition of success was given by President Obama himself. Pass the stimulus and we'll keep unemployment below 8%.

EPIC FAIL.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   11:25:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: go65 (#36)

If you truly believe that cutting spending will improve the economy, you need to look at Greece, Ireland, and the Baltics, as well as the U.S. around 1937.

Greece's "hard-times" are temporary. They are working the dead-wood from the system.

In the US, we just keep piling up the dead wood, thus making the eventual fall even worse.

All you care about is improving the economy for November 2010 and 2012. You could give a rat-shit about the future of generations who'll have to pay for your failed stimuli.

EPIC FAIL.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   11:27:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: jwpegler (#34)

Mark my words, next year will be much worse than even 2009. We won't come out of this until the federal government and state governments put their fiscal affairs in order by cutting spending. They should start by eliminating the lavish retirement plans for government bureaucrats. Put them all on 401Ks, where they have to save their own money, like the rest of us.

How many of you think that the politicians will do that voluntarily?

Agreed. Game over as the leaders won't get rid of the dead-wood known as "Government employees".

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   11:37:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#39)

The definition of success was given by President Obama himself. Pass the stimulus and we'll keep unemployment below 8%.

EPIC FAIL.

Deregulation that brought us to this point was an epic fail, Obama's stimulus projection just missed its target.

I doubt you see the difference.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   11:45:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: go65 (#1)

New U.S. claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly climbed to a nine-month high last week, yet another setback to the frail economic recovery. So tell me again how canceling the unspent stimulus money and cutting spending will create jobs?

Strawman talking point.

It will reduce the huge, record breaking deficits Owe-bama and the Democrat majorities have foisted on future unborn generations of Americans.

Owe-bama lied, the stimulus failed, and if this is a 'recovery summer' then we're well and truly fucked as a nation.

Obama's first all-by-his-lonesome budget, btw, calls for a $1.17 trillion deficit.

Badeye  posted on  2010-08-19   11:49:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#40)

You could give a rat-shit about the future of generations who'll have to pay for your failed stimuli.

That describes the Bush tax cuts (sold as economic stimulus - grow our way out of debt) pretty darn well.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   11:53:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: lucysmom (#42)

Deregulation that brought us to this point was an epic fail, Obama's stimulus projection just missed its target.

Sorry, Government had the tools to prevent this situation, but do to bad policy -making banks make loans to bad clients (Minorities) and looking the other way at blatant lies, means the government is to blame.

Stop blaming the private sector when government has failed to do it's job.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   11:54:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: lucysmom (#42)

Obama's stimulus projection just missed its target.

So you're okay with generational theft?

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   11:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: lucysmom (#44)

That describes the Bush tax cuts (sold as economic stimulus - grow our way out of debt) pretty darn well.

Wrong. Taxes are theft in and of itself.

The fewer taxes one pays, the better.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   11:55:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#45)

Sorry, Government had the tools to prevent this situation...

Blaming government for the private sector's bad behavior doesn't make the private sector look any better,

Liar loans were the work of the private sector, not a government mandate.

"Minorities" does not equal "bad client".

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   12:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: go65 (#35) (Edited)

And the Conservative plan to create jobs is

I'll tell you mine. jwpegler's 10 point plan for putting America on a long term sustainable path:

1.) Simplify the tax code. Stop taxing job creation (payroll tax), business investment (capital gains), and productive activity (corporate and personal income taxes). Replace all of the above with "smart consumption" taxes -- a broad-based retail sales tax on goods and services, with higher rates on the consumption of fossil fuels, tobacco, alcohol, fast food, luxury items, etc.

2.) Work towards energy independence. We ship more than $300 billion a year overseas to buy oil. My tax plan, which shifts taxes from investment and production to consumption, provides huge incentives for entrepreneurs and scientists to figure out alternatives.

3.) Truly reform the costly healthcare system to bring down costs, by turning Americans into healthcare shoppers. Unlink employment and insurance coverage and replace current employer paid health insurance, Medicaid, CHIP, etc. with mandatory health savings accounts. Everyone must save a minimum of 8% of their income in health savings account. The money can be used to buy insurance or pay incidental medical expenses. Any money not spent is accumulated in a simple interest bearing savings account and is inheritable by your heirs. The government would subsidize low income earners who can't save enough at 8% to buy catastrophic insurance. (For example, I pay $370 a month to cover 5 people on a catastrophic plan, so families making under $55,000 would get a health savings subsidy.) Also, require providers to publish prices for procedures as well as their outcomes. Finally, allow providers to go after the health savings accounts and also garnish the wages of people who were treated by didn't buy health insurance.

4.) Reform the lousy school system. Our success as a nation depends on our scientific and technological prowess, yet the education system doesn't produce kids with enough math and science to prepare them for technical and scientific college programs. Turn every school into a charter school, where only the parents who have kids in the school are allowed to decide how the school operates. Allow parents to hire and fire Principals. Allow Principals to hire and fire teachers. Equalize school funding at a state level. Make the money follow the kids, instead of going directly to the schools. Look at broader school choice initiatives as well.

5.) Simplify our welfare system by replacing the 30 + welfare programs with one cash subsidy for low income earners.

6.) Eliminate the Departments of Agriculture, Energy (except for the nuclear regulatory commission, Los Alamos labs, etc), Commerce, Labor, and Housing / Urban Development. Privatize the Post Office, Amtrack, etc.

7.) Cut government employment, salaries and benefits. Specifically, eliminate the lavish pension programs for government bureaucrats. Put them into 401K plans, where they have to save their own money, like the rest of us. Resend Kennedy's executive order that allowed government employees to unionize.

8.) Bring the troops home. We spend more money on defense than the next 15 countries combined. We can cut the military by 50% and still spend twice as much as China and Russia combined. (I'm not advocating a 50% cut, but a 25% is very realistic if we stop the nation building nonsense around the world.)

9.) Completely overhaul the bureaucratic regulatory system. Rely less on command and control and rely more on the tort system to protect the health and welfare of the population.

10.) Reform the monetary system. There are many better options than relying on a centralized system that was put into place before Airplanes, Cars, Televisions, Credit / Debit cards, Computers, the Internet, and mobile phones.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-08-19   12:02:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#47)

Wrong. Taxes are theft in and of itself.

I guess you believe in the free lunch too.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   12:05:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: jwpegler (#49)

Equalize school funding at a state level. Make the money follow the kids, instead of going directly to the schools. Look at broader school choice initiatives as well.

I don't know how it works in other states, however, in California school funding is equalized at the state level, and money does follow the kids (ADA).

That doesn't mean that all schools have the same amount of money per student. Schools in better off communities get as much a a third of their money from private foundations organized by parents.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   12:19:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: jwpegler (#49)

1.) Simplify the tax code. Stop taxing job creation (payroll tax), business investment (capital gains), and productive activity (corporate and personal income taxes). Replace all of the above with "smart consumption" taxes -- a broad-based retail sales tax on goods and services, with higher rates on the consumption of fossil fuels, tobacco, alcohol, fast food, luxury items, etc.

I've long supported the NST, and I like your ideas on targeting some products for higher rates.

2.) Work towards energy independence. We ship more than $300 billion a year overseas to buy oil. My tax plan, which shifts taxes from investment and production to consumption, provides huge incentives for entrepreneurs and scientists to figure out alternatives.

Agree again.

3.) Truly reform the costly healthcare system to bring down costs, by turning Americans into healthcare shoppers. Unlink employment and insurance coverage and replace current employer paid health insurance, Medicaid, CHIP, etc. with mandatory health savings accounts. Everyone must save a minimum of 8% of their income in health savings account. The money can be used to buy insurance or pay incidental medical expenses. Any money not spent is accumulated in a simple interest bearing savings account and is inheritable by your heirs. The government would subsidize low income earners who can't save enough at 8% to buy catastrophic insurance. (For example, I pay $370 a month to cover 5 people on a catastrophic plan, so families making under $55,000 would get a health savings subsidy.) Also, require providers to publish prices for procedures as well as their outcomes. Finally, allow providers to go after the health savings accounts and also garnish the wages of people who were treated by didn't buy health insurance.

I disagree here, I believe that single-payer solution represents the best approach to keeping costs down and expanding access.

4.) Reform the lousy school system. Our success as a nation depends on our scientific and technological prowess, yet the education system doesn't produce kids with enough math and science to prepare them for technical and scientific college programs. Turn every school into a charter school, where only the parents who have kids in the school are allowed to decide how the school operates. Allow parents to hire and fire Principals. Allow Principals to hire and fire teachers. Equalize school funding at a state level. Make the money follow the kids, instead of going directly to the schools. Look at broader school choice initiatives as well.

Fair enough.

5.) Simplify our welfare system by replacing the 30 + welfare programs with one cash subsidy for low income earners.

Fair enough

6.) Eliminate the Departments of Agriculture, Energy (except for the nuclear regulatory commission, Los Alamos labs, etc), Commerce, Labor, and Housing / Urban Development. Privatize the Post Office, Amtrack, etc.

Perhaps, but I would continue to expand support for high speed rail and improving freight rail lines in support of your #2 above.

7.) Cut government employment, salaries and benefits. Specifically, eliminate the lavish pension programs for government bureaucrats. Put them into 401K plans, where they have to save their own money, like the rest of us. Resend Kennedy's executive order that allowed government employees to unionize.

Agreed.

8.) Bring the troops home. We spend more money on defense than the next 15 countries combined. We can cut the military by 50% and still spend twice as much as China and Russia combined. (I'm not advocating a 50% cut, but a 25% is very realistic if we stop the nation building nonsense around the world.)

Double agreed!

9.) Completely overhaul the bureaucratic regulatory system. Rely less on command and control and rely more on the tort system to protect the health and welfare of the population.

Disagree, I don't think you can rely on the tort system when big companies have far more resources than individuals.

10.) Reform the monetary system. There are many better options than relying on a centralized system that was put into place before Airplanes, Cars, Televisions, Credit / Debit cards, Computers, the Internet, and mobile phones.

Perhaps, though I'm not sure what you specifically propose.

Overall a good list. But instead of a serious discussion on these kinds of proposals, we're focused now on a lower Manhattan Mosque.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   12:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: lucysmom (#51)

I don't know how it works in other states, however, in California school funding is equalized at the state level, and money does follow the kids (ADA).

Most states do not work that way. Money is allocated to the schools (not the kids) based on the amount collected in the district.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-08-19   12:29:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#29)

No, wrong. The entire point of the stimulus was to get people back to work and keep UE below 8%.

The point of the stimulus was to reverse the direction of the economy which Boy Blunder screwed up even worse than was originally thought. Here's a link to the analysis that you keep lying about.

"It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program. Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."

war  posted on  2010-08-19   12:31:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: jwpegler (#53)

Most states do not work that way.

Since California preforms at the bottom of the heap, I'm not sure other states would be wise to do school funding the California way.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   12:34:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: jwpegler (#49) (Edited)

I'm heading back to the beach but your #1...payroll tax and capital gains tax observations are not steeped in reality. Payroll taxes roll to the employee and a relationship between capital gains taxes and business formation are non existent. This isn't a judgment about the wisdom of those taxes. it's a judgment of your characterization of those taxes.

war  posted on  2010-08-19   12:35:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: go65 (#52) (Edited)

I believe that single-payer solution represents the best approach to keeping costs down and expanding access.

In 1960 we spent 6% of GDP on healthcare. So did Singapore. We went the socialist route with Medicaid and Medicare. Singapore implemented the plan I outlined here. Today, we spend 16.5% of GDP on healthcare. Singapore spends 3.7% of GDP on healthcare. We started out at the same place, but wound up in very different places. Singapore has better outcomes as measured by infant mortality and life expectancy.

I don't think you can rely on the tort system when big companies have far more resources than individuals.

Point taken, but the current regulatory maze is too complicated and costly to even understand. There has to be a better way.

though I'm not sure what you specifically propose.

What we have now is a focus on manipulating interest rates, which causes booms and busts. We need to focus on long term price stability. So, I see some form of electronic money (perhaps tied to you cell phone) that is backed by a commodity like gold or tied to the price of a basket of commodities (gold, oil, wheat, etc).

jwpegler  posted on  2010-08-19   12:36:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: war (#56)

Payroll taxes roll to the employee

The employer is responsible for paying half of the payroll taxes. In addition, payroll taxes are truly the one regressive tax we have because they stop at a certain income level (about $100,000 today). So someone making twice the average family income (which is $50,000) pays the exact same amount of payroll taxes as Steven Spielberg who made 6,600 TIMES the average family income.

a relationship between capital gains taxes and business formation are non existent

Untrue. Plus it's not just about business formation, but also about acquiring capital for business expansion.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-08-19   12:43:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: lucysmom (#55) (Edited)

Since California preforms at the bottom of the heap, I'm not sure other states would be wise to do school funding the California way.

The school system is broken everywhere except in small number of very wealthy districts.

While California has some charter schools, they are still small in number.

The Gates Foundation has been looking in to Charter Schools for about 10 years. The major thing they found was that its all about having great teachers. Their research shows that there is only half as much variation in student achievement between schools as there is among classrooms in the same school. Great versus ineffective teachers is the issue.

Unfortunately, in the current public school system it is almost impossible to fire a lousy a teacher. The states which give Charter School parents and principals more authority to hire and fire have better outcomes.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-08-19   12:54:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: lucysmom (#55)

Since California preforms at the bottom of the heap, I'm not sure other states would be wise to do school funding the California way.

CA isn't even in the top 10 of worst public school systems in the US.

See: http://www.walletpop.com/specials/best-and-worst-public-school-systems-in-us/

If you look at the list of worst 25 public schools, 11 are in South Carolina.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   12:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: jwpegler (#57)

In 1960 we spent 6% of GDP on healthcare. So did Singapore. We went the socialist route with Medicaid and Medicare. Singapore implemented the plan I outlined here. Today, we spend 16.5% of GDP on healthcare. Singapore spends 3.7% of GDP on healthcare. We started out at the same place, but would up in very different places. Singapore has better outcomes as measured by infant mortality and life expectancy.

Have you compared what Canada or Israel spend versus the U.S. in terms of percentage of GDP?

We have a half-assed approach here - single payer for seniors and Congress, and a mess of a system for everyone else. There have been numerous studies showing Medicare spends less on overhead than the private system.

The Singapore system is interesting - though it too would fall under the "socialist" label given government enforced price controls and savings mandates.


And the Conservative plan to create jobs is......?????

go65  posted on  2010-08-19   13:03:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: jwpegler (#57)

Singapore implemented the plan I outlined here. Today, we spend 16.5% of GDP on healthcare. Singapore spends 3.7% of GDP on healthcare.

Not exactly.

Public hospitals provide 80 percent of the acute care, setting affordable pricing benchmarks with which private providers compete. Supply-side rules that favor training new family doctors over pricey specialists are more extensive than similar notions Hillary Clinton pushed in the '90s. And in Singapore, if a child is obese, they don't get Rose Garden exhortations from the first lady. They get no lunch and mandatory exercise periods during school.

There's more (including an ample safety net for the poor), but you get the gist: Singapore achieves world-class results thanks to a bold, unconventional synthesis of liberal and conservative approaches. It's further to the left and further to the right than what President Obama or his foes now seek. The island's real ideology is pragmatic problem-solving. It works thanks to cultural traditions that let this eclectic blend flourish. The system is nurtured by talented, highly paid officials who have the luxury of governing for the long-term without being buffeted much by politics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...3/03/AR2010030301396.html

lucysmom  posted on  2010-08-19   13:19:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: war (#54)

The point of the stimulus was to reverse the direction of the economy which Boy Blunder screwed up even worse than was originally thought. Here's a link to the analysis that you keep lying about.

no, wrong. Obama specifically said that if we passed the stimulus UE would never rise above 8%.

Obviously, he, and you, were terribly wrong.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   15:23:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: lucysmom (#48)

Blaming government for the private sector's bad behavior doesn't make the private sector look any better,

Sorry Lucy, but the regulators of the economy, both in congress and in the executive branch, were out to lunch.

Liar loans were the work of the private sector, not a government mandate.

Wrong. Standards for loans to poeple who couldn't afford homes were relaxed by congressional mandate. Also, the FBI testified before congress in 2006/7 that the number of liar loans in the mortgage industry represented a threat to the security of the United States due to potential economic damage.

Congress did nothing about the FBI warning.

"Minorities" does not equal "bad client".

Sorry, but when congress passes a law which demands that banks invest a certain portion of their portfolio in minority communities and said loans explode in the nation's face it should be called out.

Being a Democratic shill means you check your humanity at the door.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-08-19   15:27:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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