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Title: Myths And Falsehoods On Budget Reconciliation
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://mediamatters.org/research/201003150034
Published: Mar 16, 2010
Author: Media Matters
Post Date: 2010-03-16 13:13:49 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 44643
Comments: 110

March 15, 2010 4:45 pm ET —

In recent weeks, conservative media have promoted a number of myths and falsehoods about the possible use of the budget reconciliation process to finalize passage of health care reform.

Myth: Reconciliation is the nuclear option

Myth: Reconciliation undermines democracy

Myth: Reconciliation in general is "arcane," abnormal, and rarely used

Myth: Reconciliation is unprecedented for health care

Myth: Using reconciliation will bypass debate affecting "1/6 of our economy"

Myth: Democrats propose passing health care with only 51 votes

Myth: Obama broke a promise not to pass health care with a 50 + 1 vote

Myth: Reconciliation is the nuclear option

On Fox News' Special Report, host Bret Baier said

that the Senate process of reconciliation "was once called the nuclear option" and aired clips of what he claimed were Democrats criticizing the nuclear option "when Republicans were using it." Fox News hosts and guests have repeatedly pushed the falsehood that the term "nuclear option" refers to the budget reconciliation process. The Fox Nation and Fox News personalities such as Sean Hannity, Greta Van Susteren, Dick Morris, Bret Baier, and Bill Sammon have all falsely compared reconciliation to the "nuclear option."

Fact: "Nuclear option" was coined by GOP to describe a process to change Senate filibuster rules. The term "nuclear option" was coined by former Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS), one of the leading advocates of a 2005 proposal to change the Senate rules on filibusters for judicial nominations. After Republican strategists deemed the term a political liability, Republican senators began to attribute it to Democrats. As Media Matters for America noted, at the time, many in the news media followed suit, repeating the Republicans' false attribution of the term to the Democrats.

Myth: Reconciliation undermines democracy

The Washington Post published a March 2 op-ed by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) in which he claimed: "This use of reconciliation to jam through this legislation, against the will of the American people, would be unprecedented in scope. And the havoc wrought would threaten our system of checks and balances, corrode the legislative process, degrade our system of government and damage the prospects of bipartisanship."

Fact: Reconciliation requires majority vote. The U.S. House Committee on Rules defines

the budget reconciliation process as requiring a majority of both houses for passage. From the Rules Committee:

Once a reconciliation bill is passed in the House and Senate, members of each body meet to work out their differences. A majority of the conferees on each panel must agree on a single version of the bill before it can be brought back to the full House and Senate for a vote on final passage. Approval of the conference agreement on the reconciliation legislation must be by a majority vote of both Houses.

Myth: Reconciliation in general is "arcane," abnormal, and rarely used

In a National Review Online column titled "Unprecedented," the Heritage Foundation's Michael Franc referred to reconciliation as "an arcane budgetary procedure." In a February 23 editorial, The Washington Examiner accused Democrats of "running a Washington con game" in considering the use of reconciliation to pass health reform, asserting that the process is "an arcane legislative magic act." Additionally, in a February 23 article

reporting that centrist Democrats were weighing the implications of using reconciliation to pass health care reform, Politico claimed that Republicans may be able to convince voters that the procedure "is an end-run around the normal legislative process."

Fact: Reconciliation is part of congressional budget process. The budget reconciliation process is defined by the U.S. House Committee on Rules as "part of the congressional budget process... utilized when Congress issues directives to legislate policy changes in mandatory spending (entitlements) or revenue programs (tax laws) to achieve the goals in spending and revenue contemplated by the budget resolution."

Republicans repeatedly used reconciliation to pass Bush's agenda. Republicans used

the budget reconciliation process to pass President Bush's 2001 and 2003 tax cuts as well as the 2005 "Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act." The Senate also used the procedure to pass a bill containing a provision that would have permitted oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (The final version of that bill that Bush signed did not contain the provision on drilling.)

Myth: Reconciliation is unprecedented for health care

In a February 25 Wall Street Journal op-ed, Bill Frist claimed: "Using the budget reconciliation procedure to pass health-care reform would be unprecedented because Congress has never used it to adopt major, substantive policy change." In his February 25 Washington Post column, George Will suggested Democrats were "misusing" reconciliation for trying to pass health care legislation. Will wrote: "The summit's predictable failure will be a pretext for trying to ram health legislation through the Senate by misusing 'reconciliation,' which prevents filibusters."

Fact: Reconciliation has repeatedly been used to reform health care. On February 24, NPR noted that many "major changes to health care laws" were passed via reconciliation. Additionally, during a February 24 broadcast of NPR's Morning Edition, correspondent Julie Rovner quoted George Washington University health policy professor Sara Rosenbaum saying: "In fact, the way in which virtually all of health reform, with very, very limited exceptions, has happened over the past 30 years has been the reconciliation process."

Congress used reconciliation to pass Medicare Advantage and SCHIP. As part of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, enacted through the reconciliation process, Congress -- which was controlled by the Republicans at the time -- created the "Medicare+Choice Program," currently known as Medicare Advantage or Medicare Part C. The program allows seniors to enroll in HMO-type plans rather than the traditional Medicare fee-for-service plan. The State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), was also passed through reconciliation as part of the Balanced Budget Act. It provides federal matching funds to expand health coverage to children in low-income families who are not eligible for Medicaid.

Congress used reconciliation to pass COBRA. As part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985, Congress gave "workers and their families who lose their health benefits the right to choose to continue group health benefits provided by their group health plan for limited periods of time under certain circumstances."

Congress used reconciliation to pass Patient Self-Determination Act. As part of the Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1990, Congress passed the Patient Self-Determination Act, which requires hospitals, nursing homes, HMOs, and other organizations that participate in Medicare or Medicaid to provide information about advance directives and patients' decision-making rights.

Myth: Using reconciliation will bypass debate affecting "1/6 of our economy"

During the February 25 edition of Hannity (accessed via the Nexis database), Fox News contributor Sarah Palin suggested that congressional Democrats plan to "cram through via reconciliation this scheme, this government growth takeover of too many aspects of our health care." She went on to warn about "the risk is this one-sixth of our economy being so controlled and 1/6 of our society being so controlled by government with this takeover of health care." Similarly, Politico published a February 4 op-ed by Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) warning that "Democrats may attempt to use reconciliation to short-circuit every senator's right and responsibility to fully debate a measure that will affect one-sixth of our economy." Also, CNN political analyst Gloria Borger asked during the March 12 edition of The Situation Room (accessed via the Nexis database): "[S]hould you pass something that affects one-sixth of the American economy with just a majority vote?"

Fact: Dems say they plan to use reconciliation only to tweak aspects of bills already passed by House and Senate. As the Washington Post's Ezra Klein reported, congressional Democrats are planning to pass "the 11 pages of modifications that President Obama proposed to reconcile the House and Senate bills with each other." From Klein's March 1 blog post:

Second, Democrats are not proposing to create the health-care reform bill in reconciliation. Rather, they're using the process for a much more limited purpose: passing the 11 pages of modifications that President Obama proposed to reconcile the House and Senate bills with each other. This is not a particularly ambitious use of the reconciliation process, and it's certainly not unprecedented. Republicans are arguing otherwise, of course, but the record belies their rhetoric.

The Hill: Reid says Dems "would likely use the budget reconciliation process to pass a series of fixes to the first healthcare bill passed by the Senate." The Hill reported

in a February 20 article:

Democrats will finish their health reform efforts within the next two months by using a majority-vote maneuver in the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said.

"Reid said that congressional Democrats would likely opt for a procedural tactic in the Senate allowing the upper chamber to make final changes to its healthcare bill with only a simple majority of senators, instead of the 60 it takes to normally end a filibuster.

"I've had many conversations this week with the president, his chief of staff, and Speaker Pelosi," Reid said during an appearance Friday evening on "Face to Face with Jon Ralston" in Nevada. "And we're really trying to move forward on this."

The majority leader said that while Democrats have a number of options, they would likely use the budget reconciliation process to pass a series of fixes to the first healthcare bill passed by the Senate in November. These changes are needed to secure votes for passage of that original Senate bill in the House. "We'll do a relatively small bill to take care of what we've already done," Reid said, affirming that Democrats would use the reconciliation process. "We're going to have that done in the next 60 days."

Myth: Democrats propose passing health care with only 51 votes

During the February 25 edition of Fox News' Special Report (accessed via the Nexis database), correspondent Carl Cameron reported that "Republicans demanded Democrats abandon any plans to drive health care through the Senate with only 51 votes under the rarely used legislative maneuver known as budget reconciliation, instead of the normal 60 votes needed to advance major bills."

Fact: Senate already passed health care bill with 60 votes. On December 23, the Senate passed a cloture motion on H.R. 3590, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, with 60 votes. On December 24, the Senate passed the bill with 60 votes.

Myth: Obama broke a promise not to pass health care with a 50 + 1 vote

Numerous right-wing media figures have promoted video of Obama discussing the difficulty of governing with "50 plus one" votes on legislation to assert that Obama has broken a promise not to pass health care using reconciliation. For instance, during the March 3 edition of his radio show, Glenn Beck said: "New audio for you from Barack Obama saying that we cannot, cannot pass it with a simple majority vote. Health care has to be supermajority, has to be done that way. You can't just slip it by the American people, which they are now saying they're going to do. Yet another broken promise from Barack Obama." Similarly, Jim Hoft posted the video at his Gateway Pundit site and wrote: "But, of course, like everything else Obama promised, this statement came with an expiration date. Today Obama will announce that Democrats will force their unpopular nationalized health care bill through Congress using a simple majority to ram it through."

Fact: Obama didn't "promise" not to pass health care with 50 + 1 votes. In fact, in the video promoted by conservative media figures, Obama said it would be more difficult to govern without broad support, not that he promised not to use reconciliation to pass health care reform. The video shows several clips of Obama on the campaign trail in 2006 and 2007 discussing how he expected to pass health care reform. For example, in a September 2007 speech, Obama says of health care reform, "This is an area where we're going to have to have a 60 percent majority in the Senate and the House in order to actually get a bill to my desk. We're going to have to have a majority to get a bill to my desk that is not just a 50-plus-1 majority." In another clip, Obama discusses how he wanted to campaign in a way that brought more than a "50-plus-1" majority because "you can't govern" after such a victory and predicts that "you can't deliver on health care. We're not going to pass universal health care with a 50-plus-1 strategy." In a 2006 speech, Obama says, "If we want to transform the government, though, that requires a sizable majority." At no point does he "promise" not to use reconciliation in health care reform.

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#1. To: Brian S (#0)

Media Matters

rotflmao! What, Chi comm's weren't available for 'analysis'?

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-16   13:21:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Gen'rul Boofer (#1)

You certainly loved David Brock when he was chasing Clinton's cock...

David Brock (born November 2, 1962) is an American journalist and author and the founder of Media Matters for America. He was a journalist during the 1990s. [1] During that time he was best known for his book The Real Anita Hill and authoring the Troopergate story, which led to Paula Jones filing a lawsuit against Bill Clinton. He tells his personal story in his memoir Blinded by the Right and criticizes the "conservative media machine" in his book The Republican Noise Machine. His work on the latter book led him to found Media Matters for America, a non-profit organization that describes itself as a "progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media."

Day 23 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 21 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot...

war  posted on  2010-03-16   13:24:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Brian S (#0)

The problem isn't reconciliation, which is just a budget issue. The problem is attempting to pass the Senate version of the health care bill without actually voting on it.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-16   15:59:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Brian S (#0)

Myth: Reconciliation is unprecedented for health care

What's unprecendented is a takeover of 20% of the American economy against the will of the people by a technicality of the Rules.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-16   16:01:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: dont eat that, badeye, brian s (#3)

The problem isn't reconciliation, which is just a budget issue. The problem is attempting to pass the Senate version of the health care bill without actually voting on it.

Was it a problem the 35 times Republicans passed bills using the same method when they controlled the House?

In the last Congress that Republicans controlled, from 2005 to 2006, Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier used the self-executing rule more than 35 times, and was no stranger to the concept of “deem and pass.” That strategy, then decried by the House Democrats who are now using it, and now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld). Dreier used it for a $40 billion deficit reduction package so that his fellow GOPers could avoid an embarrassing vote on immigration. I don’t like self-executing rules by either party—I prefer the “regular order”—so I am not going to say this is a great idea by the Democrats. But even so—is there no shame anymore?

Politically I think it's a dumb idea for Democrats to use the self-executing rule to pass healthcare, but that doesn't excuse the fact that the Republicans are again acting like hypocrites.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-16   21:29:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: dont eat that (#4)

What's unprecendented is a takeover of 20% of the American economy against the will of the people by a technicality of the Rules.

I'll remind you again the Senate bill is less liberal than the system in Costa Rica that Limbaugh says is better.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-16   21:30:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: go65 (#6)

Government spending already accounts for over half of all health care spending and given that there is no public option there wouldn't be any takeover anyway. The "right" has never been able to debate this issue honestly going back to Harry Truman...

Day 23 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 21 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot...

war  posted on  2010-03-16   22:20:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: go65 (#5)

Its political suicide on a party wide scale. Reminds me in some weird way of Bush the Elder raising taxes....its that ill advised politically.

I won't get caught up in a debate about 35 times its been done in the past. I'm tired of re re re debating what can't be changed or agreed to. Its trivial compared to whats taking place 'on the ground' nationally.

All this does, no matter what happens now, is the Democrats display an unbelievable tin ear, and adherence to dogma over substance thats frightening, and a arrogance thats simply become intolerable to voters/taxpayers.

They aren't even making a cursory attempt to remove the 'cornhusker kickback' nor the 'Louisianna purchase'. The 'Bridge to Nowhere' was cheap in comparision to each in 06. And GO65, you might recall I cited that instance when I decided not to support the GOP in that mid term.

Its shear domestic hubris, narcissm, and arrogance. I don't think this thing gets passed by a up or down vote, or via 'devious' political means. The only real question of interest to me is how the Whitehouse spins the outcome.

President Obama united the country. How bout that? (laughing)

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-16   23:57:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: go65 (#6)

I'll remind you again the Senate bill is less liberal than the system in Costa Rica that Limbaugh says is better.

Limbaugh has never said the public health system in Costa Rica is better than anything.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-17   8:33:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: go65 (#5)

This self executing rule has never been used for such a massive public entitlement program. The hypocrisy is pretending it has.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-17   8:35:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: war (#7)

Government spending already accounts for over half of all health care spending

Government health care entitlements are already a massive disaster and idiots like you want to see it made worse.

You're such a fucking moron.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-17   8:36:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: dont eat that (#10)

This self executing rule has never been used for such a massive public entitlement program. The hypocrisy is pretending it has.

that's correct, but if the GOP considers it unconstitutional then they shouldn't have used for any bill.

Again, I think it's idiotic if the Democrats try to move forward with the bill in this fashion, but again, the Republicans are still hypocrites for whining over a legislative maneuver they used themselves when they ran the House.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   8:45:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: dont eat that (#11)

Government health care entitlements are already a massive disaster and idiots like you want to see it made worse.

Uh no. There are really two choices - pass this bill and reduce the long term deficit, or do nothing and watch medicare spending bankrupt the country.

The only alternative the GOP has come up with is to replace Medicare with a voucher program. If the GOP wants to relegate itself to permanent minority status, let it go to the American people and tell them that Grandma now has to shop for insurance every year, and oh by the way, insurance companies would still be free to deny care to those with pre-existing conditions.

If the GOP could step away from ideology we could actually do something that would improve care, reduce costs, and address the tens of millions of uninsured while removing the "get sick and go bankrupt" fear facing citizens who don't work for government. We could start by looking at countries like Costa Rica (where Limbaugh would go for his care) or even Israel as model examples of a system that we could consider here in the U.S.

I'll cede a point to you, the Obama plan isn't the ideal solution, but politics won't permit the U.S. to learn from the successes of others in reducing costs while increasing access to care.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   8:50:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: dont eat that (#9)

Limbaugh has never said the public health system in Costa Rica is better than anything.

He has said that if Obamacare passes, he'll go to Costa Rica for his care. Costa Rica has a far more socialized health system than anything being proposed for the U.S.

And I'll remind you that Limbaugh said he got the best care in the world in a unionized hospital located in a state that requires all employers to provide insurance for their employees. Obviously Limbaugh sees no problem with socialized health insurance and is just looking to score political points against Obama.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   8:53:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: go65 (#13) (Edited)

What is the unspoken irony here is that a majority of us Boomers seem to be against this program. Given the status of the Most Selfish Generation Ever, watch as we come 180 degree within the next 7 years as companies continue to pare down retiree benefits and the government raises Medicare taxes in leaps and bounds while covering less and less.

Day 24 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 22 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot...

war  posted on  2010-03-17   9:00:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Badeye (#8)

Its political suicide on a party wide scale. Reminds me in some weird way of Bush the Elder raising taxes....its that ill advised politically.

I won't get caught up in a debate about 35 times its been done in the past. I'm tired of re re re debating what can't be changed or agreed to. Its trivial compared to whats taking place 'on the ground' nationally.

All this does, no matter what happens now, is the Democrats display an unbelievable tin ear, and adherence to dogma over substance thats frightening, and a arrogance thats simply become intolerable to voters/taxpayers.

I do agree it's a dumb move politically, but I'm not sure it's suicidal. Polls have shown most people support the components of the bill once they learn what it actually does and are able to step away from the hyperbole of the critics.

It's useful to go back and look at the debate surrounding medicare's passage in the 1960's. You heard a lot of the same arguments that we hear today, yet today the vast majority of Americans oppose a repeal of Medicare. If this bill becomes law, I'm fairly confident that Americans would oppose a repeal.

The GOP, as has been the case for a while now, continues to shoot itself in the foot by failing to offer any realistic alternatives and instead spending its efforts to just try and block anything the Democrats propose. If all they have to offer for the next 7 months is "repeal the Obama plan and go back to runaway rate increases, no coverage for those with pre-existing conditions, and run-away medicare costs," they will fail.

I would urge you to have a look at the healthcare polls on pollster.com, support for reform, and for Obama's handling of healthcare, are starting to increase. See: http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthplan.php

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   9:02:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: war (#15)

What is the unspoken irony here is that a majority of us Boomers seem to be against this program. Given the status of the Most Selfish Generation Ever, watch as we come 180 degree within the next 7 years as companies continue to pare down retiree benefits and the government raises Medicare taxes in leaps and bounds while covering less and less.

I have two friends that have been extremely active in the tea party efforts, one is a retired teacher on a government pension, the other is retired military, also on a government pension.

I asked both if they would favor reducing or eliminating their pensions to reduce the deficit/government spending? Both said the real problem is things like foreign aid and welfare, not their pensions.

One may not have a choice, his pension is funded by the state and county and is heavily in the red, the county just proposed a tax hike solely to fund pension obligations while it cuts spending on school programs. There is, as you can imagine, outrage that taxes are being raised to support 60% of salary pensions for those in their 50's while band, sports, and programs for both gifted and challenged students are being cut.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   9:07:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: go65 (#17) (Edited)

I should have made that statement read "companies and governments"...

IIRC what I had previously read, total government spending at all levels is around $6.5trillion and of that 17% is on healthcare. A few years ago it was 12%...if nothing is done, what is it going to be in a few more years?

The insanity of opposition for the sake of opposition is what is going to ruin this nation...the current course is to spend and to keep spending. That is what the opposition is defending.

Day 24 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 22 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot...

war  posted on  2010-03-17   9:18:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: go65 (#16)

Its not the GOP blocking this. Its moderate/pro life Democrats. Second, the tired, worn, and complete false statement that the GOP hasn't offered viable alternatives isn't working, so stop. Thats a failed talking point, as the glorified photo op at the whitehouse a couple of weeks ago demonstrated conclusively. Again, it isn't Republicans blocking this, its DEMOCRATS....that don't want to lose their cushy House seats in November.

And I would suggest citing the massive failure known as 'Medicaid' is counter productive if you want this passed. Its going bankrupt, remember?

It will be interesting to see how the Administration spins this, either way. Bottom line is without an up or down vote on something so all encompassing, the Democrats will pay a horrific political price this fall.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-17   9:54:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: go65 (#17)

I have two friends that have been extremely active in the tea party efforts

Are they racist rednecks clinging to guns and god? Astro turfing tea baggers?

Just askin...Keith Olberman sez they are!

(laughing)

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-17   9:56:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Gen'rul Boofer (#19)

Its not the GOP blocking this.

No? They are voting for it?

Day 24 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 22 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot...

war  posted on  2010-03-17   10:20:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: go65 (#13)

Uh no. There are really two choices - pass this bill and reduce the long term deficit, or do nothing and watch medicare spending bankrupt the country.

It's a joke that this bill will reduce any deficits. And why do you think it will do anything to reduce Medicare spending, unless you agree with Sarah Palin that there will be death panels to thin the herd.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-17   13:10:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: go65 (#12)

The only thing it has been used for in the past is expedite minor differences the House has had with a Senate bill. It has never been used to enact an entire piece of legislation as the asshole in the House are trying to do now.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-17   13:12:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: dont eat that (#22)

No rational person believes it will 'reduce the deficit'.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-17   13:25:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: dont eat that (#23)

The only thing it has been used for in the past is expedite minor differences the House has had with a Senate bill. It has never been used to enact an entire piece of legislation as the asshole in the House are trying to do now.

The GOP used in 2006 to pass a $40 billion "deficit reduction" package so Congressmen didn't have to go on record as actually voting for cuts or fee hikes that were politically damaging.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   16:30:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Badeye (#24)

No rational person believes it will 'reduce the deficit'.

And no rational person should believe that killing the bill will reduce the deficit either.

So what's your alternative?

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   16:30:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: dont eat that, badeye (#22)

It's a joke that this bill will reduce any deficits. And why do you think it will do anything to reduce Medicare spending, unless you agree with Sarah Palin that there will be death panels to thin the herd.

Have you read the CBO scoring of the Senate bill?

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/86185-cbo-revised-cost-estimate-pegs-senate-health-bill-at-875-billion

The estimate released Thursday states that the Senate bill will now cost $875 billion over 10 years and reduce the deficit by $118 billion, $14 billion less than the previous CBO score.

The last time the GOP sent a proposal to the CBO for scoring (Nov 2009) the result was that it would reduce the deficit by $68 billion over 10 years while only insuring another 3 million people (versus 31 million for the Democrats).

So why would you choose a plan that adds more to the deficit and insures less people?

That's the problem with the GOP arguments in HCR - they continue to argue that spending more and getting less is preferable to spending less and getting more.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   16:34:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: go65 (#26)

Start over, include both parties, and include tort reform as the center piece. Next, allow ALL insurance companies to compete EVERYWHERE.

I'm willing to negotiate from that starting point.

This has become so polarizing its better to kill it and start over.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-17   16:34:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: go65 (#27)

The CBO doesn't know what will be in the final version any more than you do, GO65.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-17   16:35:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: go65 (#27)

That's the problem with the GOP arguments in HCR

And knock off the bullshit 'its the GOP blocking this' based nonsense.

Its DEMOCRATS that are fighting among themselves. Huge majorities in both the House and the Senate, with the Whitehouse.

This is a Democrat mess, concocted by Democrats, blocked by Democrats.

Especially in the House.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-17   16:36:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: go65 (#27)

Have you read the CBO scoring of the Senate bill?

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/86185-cbo-revised-cost-estimate-pegs-senate-health-bill-at-875-billion

The estimate released Thursday states that the Senate bill will now cost $875 billion over 10 years and reduce the deficit by $118 billion, $14 billion less than the previous CBO score.

All smoke and mirrors. The plan is front loaded with tax increases before any health care takes place. They are also counting money being stolen from Medicare as revenue.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-17   16:42:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: go65 (#27)

For the truth of the matter, see here:

http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=7055

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-17   16:43:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Badeye (#28) (Edited)

Start over, include both parties, and include tort reform as the center piece. Next, allow ALL insurance companies to compete EVERYWHERE.

That assumes the GOP is interested in a bi-partisan bill versus just hurting Obama politically by obstructing him at every step.

And need I remind you that Texas passed tort reform several years ago yet the uninsured rate is 25% (versus less than 4% for MA which has a universal care program). The state Government of Texas does spend $47 per person on healthcare versus $114 for MA, but here's how they rank against each other in terms of national rankings of all 50 states from best (1) to worst (50):

See: http://www.americashealthrankings.org/statecompare/2009/MA/TX.aspx

Premature Death (Years lost per 100,000 population): MA: 4, TX: 26
Poor Physical Health Days (Days in the previous 30 days) MA: 3.3, TX:3.7
Infant Mortality (Deaths per 1,000 live births) MA: 5.0, TX: 6.4
Cancer Deaths (Deaths per 100,000 population): MA: 29, TX: 16
Cardiovascular Deaths (Deaths per 100,000 population): MA: 9, TX:29

So if you believe that Tort Reform is the panacea, the data doesn't support that conclusion.

As far as allowing people to buy across state lines, I do agree, but you would have to get all 50 states to agree on standards, or impose federal requirements that supersede state regulations which I would imagine you would consider to be an encroachment of federal authority on state's rights, correct?

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   16:46:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: go65 (#25)

The combined use of reconciliation and “deem and pass” is unprecedented. Don’t let anyone fool you:

Yes, self-executing rules have been used in the past, but as the Congressional Research Service put it in a 2006 paper, “Originally, this type of rule was used to expedite House action in disposing of Senate amendments to House-passed bills.” They’ve also been used for amendments such as to a 1998 bill that “would have permitted the CIA to offer employees an early-out retirement program”—but never before to elide a vote on the entire fundamental legislation.

dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-17   16:47:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: dont eat that (#32)

Wow, politicians lie? You don't say!

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   16:48:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: dont eat that (#34)

The combined use of reconciliation and “deem and pass” is unprecedented. Don’t let anyone fool you:

Aha, so it's OK if they are used independently but not together?

Are you seriously making that argument?

How about we just bring the bills to a vote in both chambers and see where the chips fall (which would mean the GOP would have to abandon its filibuster).

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   16:49:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Badeye (#30)

This is a Democrat mess, concocted by Democrats, blocked by Democrats.

You do realize most of the wrangling going on in the House is due to the GOP filibuster in the Senate, right?

If the GOP allowed the bill to come up for a vote, the Senate and House could agree on a compromise bill and vote on it without having to try and pursue these legislative tricks.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   16:51:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: go65 (#33)

You asked me, I answered. I don't need a recitation of what you think is wrong with the GOP here.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-17   16:59:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: go65 (#37)

Excuses don't cut it. Your side had a super majority for eight almost a year in the Senate, still have a vast majority there, and a huge one in the House.

this is a DEMOCRAT problem, created by Democrats, and currently being blocked by DEMOCRATS.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-03-17   17:00:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Badeye (#39)

this is a DEMOCRAT problem, created by Democrats, and currently being blocked by DEMOCRATS.

How are Democrats currently blocking an up/down vote in the Senate?

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-03-17   17:11:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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