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Title: Johnson & Johnson liable for $572 million in Oklahoma opioid epidemic trial; shares rise
Source: Reuters
URL Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us- ... =trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
Published: Aug 26, 2019
Author: Heide Brandes, Nate Raymond
Post Date: 2019-08-27 05:58:42 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 1710
Comments: 26

NORMAN, Okla./BOSTON (Reuters) - An Oklahoma judge on Monday ordered Johnson & Johnson (JNJ.N) to pay $572.1 million to the state for its part in fueling an opioid epidemic by deceptively marketing addictive painkillers, a sum that was substantially less than investors had expected, driving up J&J’s shares.

The state’s attorney general had filed the lawsuit, seeking $17 billion to address the impact of the drug crisis on Oklahoma. It had been considered a bellwether for other litigation nationwide over the opioid epidemic.

“The expectation was this was going to be a $1.5 billion to $2 billion fine,” said Jared Holz, healthcare strategist for Jefferies & Co. “$572 million is a much lower number than had been feared.”

J&J said it would appeal the decision.

Shares of J&J were up 2% in extended trading following the decision, after an initial gain of more than 5%. Other drugmakers that sell opioid painkillers and are defending against similar lawsuits also rose after-hours, including Teva Pharmaceutical Industries Ltd (TEVA.TA) up 2.6%, and Endo International Plc (ENDP.O), up 1.4% higher.

Opioids were involved in almost 400,000 overdose deaths from 1999 to 2017, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Since 2000, some 6,000 Oklahomans have died from opioid overdoses, according to the state’s lawyers.

Roughly 2,500 lawsuits have been brought by states, counties and municipalities nationally seeking to hold drugmakers responsible for opioid abuse nationwide. Oklahoma’s case was the first to go to trial. Some drugmakers have chosen to settle cases.

In holding J&J liable after a seven-week, non-jury trial, Judge Thad Balkman of Cleveland County District Court in Norman, Oklahoma, said the state proved that J&J’s misleading marketing and promotion of its Duragesic and Nucynta painkillers created a public nuisance.

“The opioid crisis is an imminent danger and menace to Oklahomans,” Balkman said.

Oklahoma wanted J&J to help it address the epidemic for the next 30 years by funding addiction treatment and prevention programs.

Balkman said in his written ruling that the award covered only one year of addressing the crisis because Oklahoma did not demonstrate the time and costs needed beyond that.

Lance Lang, a 36-year-old recovering user of opioids turned activist in Oklahoma City, said it was “short sighted” for the judge to have only ordered funding for a year. “There’s going to be people struggling with this for years,” he said in an interview.

J&J said it will ask that the award be put on hold during an appeal process that could stretch into 2021. The company also said Oklahoma failed to show that its products and activities had created a public nuisance.

“You can’t sue your way out of the opioid abuse crisis,” Sabrina Strong, a lawyer for J&J, said at a news conference after the verdict. “Everyone must come together to address this. But J&J did not cause the opioid crisis.”

“ACCOUNTABLE FOR DEATHS AND ADDICTIONS”

The case was brought by Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Hunter, who alleged that J&J’s marketing practices helped fuel the opioid epidemic by flooding the market with painkillers.

“Johnson & Johnson will finally be held accountable for thousands of deaths and addictions caused by their actions,” Hunter said.

The trial came after Oklahoma had resolved claims against OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma LP in March for $270 million and Teva in May for $85 million, leaving J&J as the lone defendant.

The verdict came as two Ohio counties prepare for a scheduled October trial before a federal judge in Cleveland. About 2,000 lawsuits out of some 2,500 filed nationwide are consolidated in the case in Cleveland.

Endo International Plc (ENDP.O) and Allergan Plc (AGN.N) last week agreed to pay $15 million to avoid going to trial in October in a case by two Ohio counties, subject to court approval.

Some plaintiffs’ lawyers have compared the opioid cases to litigation by states against the tobacco industry that led to a $246 billion settlement in 1998.

Joe Rice, a lead plaintiff’s attorney for municipalities in the federal litigation, said if the Oklahoma award were extrapolated to other states, it could mean an annual abatement cost of around $38 billion.

“It does indicate that if I’m in the pharmaceutical business, I’ve got to think long and hard about annual payments of my share of that,” he said.

The judge overseeing the federal litigation in Ohio has been pushing for a global settlement.

J&J, which is among multiple pharmaceutical companies that are defendants in the federal litigation, said it remains “open to viable options” to resolve the Ohio case, including through settlement.

During the Oklahoma trial, lawyers for the state argued that J&J carried out a years-long marketing campaign that minimized the painkillers’ addiction risks and promoted their benefits.

The lawyers called J&J an opioid “kingpin” and argued that its marketing created a public nuisance as doctors over-prescribed the drugs, leading to a surge in overdose deaths.

J&J countered that its marketing claims had scientific support and its painkillers accounted for a tiny fraction of opioids prescribed in Oklahoma. The company said in a statement that since 2008, its painkillers accounted for less than 1% of the U.S. market, including generics.

Teva said the ruling supported its rationale for settling the case before trial, and said it was preparing to defend itself in the upcoming trial in Ohio.

Purdue, which is also among the defendants in the Ohio litigation, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Reporting by Heide Brandes in Norman, Oklahoma, and Nate Raymond in Boston; Additional reporting by Julie Steenhuysen in Chicago and Jonathan Stempel in New York; Writing by Tom Hals; Editing by Noeleen Walder, Bill Berkrot and Leslie Adler

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#1. To: Deckard (#0)

Opioids were involved in almost 400,000 overdose deaths

"A drug overdose is the ingestion of a drug in quantities greater than are recommended."

So how are these deaths the fault of anyone but the user? What a bullshit ruling.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-27   9:43:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: misterwhite (#1)

Is this a trick? I am agreeing with misterwhite? No, it is entirely the fault of the users. Maybe the Oklahoma elected officials, whose jobs it is to provide for the needs of the voters through careful deliberation and spending of tax funds to open their own treatment centers. Call them jails, because they should be that locked down, and treatment should be mandatory for any homeless.

THIS IS A TAG LINE...Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2019-08-27   13:11:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Deckard (#0)

J&J said it would appeal the decision.

I'm going to hope that the higher court increases the fine to $2B or more. $3B would be better.

I hate these Lefty scumbags, peddling their opiods. They're heroin dealers in nice suits, nothing more. Throw the book at them. Prison time, personal financial liability, the whole works.

And they embrace Lefty politics because they perceive that helps them escape the consequences of their shady operations and outright crimes because then they are "protected". It's like a Left wing mafia operation between corporate America and the news media.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-27   13:46:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: misterwhite (#1)

So how are these deaths the fault of anyone but the user? What a bullshit ruling.

How does it feel to be dumber than a roomful of Okies?

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-27   13:47:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: misterwhite (#1)

Remember the “free phone” …

The state AGs see now lining up for their “free money” …

Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-27   14:18:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Gatlin (#5)

Original Obamaphone Lady: Obama Voter Says Vote for Obama because he gives free Phone

YouBoob has made millions off that clip. And all she got was some crappy phone.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-27   14:26:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Tooconservative (#3)

I hate these Lefty scumbags, peddling their opiods.

One day you'll need their opioids (as I did) and you'll thank God for Johnson & Johnson.

Those FDA-approved opioids are prescribed by a licensed doctor in a limited amount and dispensed by a licensed pharmacist to treat severe pain. If the drugs are being abused, that is NOT the fault of Johnson & Johnson.

Bunch of bullshit that people are saying they didn't know a heroin- based product could be addictive and they're not at fault. They're as ignorant as the smokers who sued because they got cancer -- "No one told me that could happen!" BTW, smoking is down but new cases of lung cancer aren't. Scam of the century, right up there with global warming.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-27   18:25:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Tooconservative (#3)

They're heroin dealers in nice suits, nothing more.

Wait, don't you believe in the legalization of drugs, allowing people to make their own decisions as to what to put into their own body?

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-27   18:31:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: misterwhite (#7)

Bunch of bullshit that people are saying they didn't know a heroin- based product could be addictive and they're not at fault. They're as ignorant as the smokers who sued because they got cancer -- "No one told me that could happen!" BTW, smoking is down but new cases of lung cancer aren't. Scam of the century, right up there with global warming.

Are you so ignorant that you don't know that smokers never got any money from the tobacco settlement?

It was a Xlinton scam for the AGs of the states to sue the tobacco companies for many billions, a big windfall which their legislatures then "invested" and gave some lip service to the idea that they'd help pay for smokers' health issues.

They just spent it all, mostly on their cronies and pet projects. Smokers got exactly nothing out of it except higher cigarette prices. Which continues to the present time.

There were hardly any smokers who actually were trying to sue or trying to get the states to sue. It was all the AGs, pulling a legal scam. The tobacco companies went along with it, knowing it would cost them in the short term but would provide a shield of legal liability down the road.

Sometimes, a shakedown is just a shakedown.

Those FDA-approved opioids are prescribed by a licensed doctor in a limited amount and dispensed by a licensed pharmacist to treat severe pain. If the drugs are being abused, that is NOT the fault of Johnson & Johnson.

Oxycontin is another opioid that is FDA-approved. For that matter, so is fetanyl but only in a hospital setting (like for people dying of third-degree burns).

When these companies know they are selling more of these dangerous drugs in an area or region or town than there is any reason to expect, they are responsible.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-27   19:37:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: misterwhite (#8)

Wait, don't you believe in the legalization of drugs, allowing people to make their own decisions as to what to put into their own body?

Not the opioids. They're simply too addictive.

I've had a few of the milder ones. I like them, like everyone does. I like them too much. Like everyone does. And there's the problem.

Opioids are and will always be a class of drug far more dangerous than anything else we've yet discovered.

If, however, we sold it in hugely diluted form, as Bayer did legally a century ago for suppressing coughs, I would have less problem with it because you could control the sale of large quantities at retail, like we do with sudafed.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-27   19:44:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Gatlin (#5)

The state AGs see now lining up for their “free money” …

Yep. Especially those who missed out on the tobacco settlement. Not this time!

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-27   19:46:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: misterwhite, Gatlin, Deckard (#11)

Yep. Especially those who missed out on the tobacco settlement. Not this time!

The 4 states who missed out were the tobacco states as I recall it. Most of the public never found out that that money was never used to help people stop smoking or treat smokers, which is how they sold it to the public. Instead, the settlement money was lavished on political cronies and new spending for which taxes would otherwise have to be raised. The state legislatures behaved as though they found some pirate treasure and spent like lunatics.

Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW): State Tobacco Settlement Funds Go Up In Smoke, 5/12/16
In 1998, 46 states and five U.S. territories signed onto the Master Settlement Agreement (MSA) in order to recover taxpayer dollars lost to the treatment of tobacco-related health issues, which would then be used to fund anti-smoking campaigns and public health programs. As part of the settlement, the states and territories will receive an estimated total of $246 billion over the first 25 years.

However, the settlement agreement did not stipulate where, the funds should go, leaving it up to the states to appropriate the money how they desire. This subtle ‘loophole’ in the MSA created an unintentional windfall to use tens of billions of dollars to fund projects that have no relation to tobacco prevention and cessation.

For example, New York decided to utilize its MSA payments in an elaborate scheme that would have made Bernie Madoff proud. New York receives approximately $800 million every year from the MSA and spends about $40 million on tobacco education, or 5 percent. On top of that scam, instead of creating a separate fund for the settlement money, the state government decided that it would be a terrific idea to disperse the settlement money into its general fund. New York then granted Wall Street the power to begin issuing risky bonds backed by the MSA settlement money. The only problem is that the settlement money continues to decrease every year as the number of cigarette users decline.

...

The settlement money has become something of an albatross around the necks of the taxpayers of many states over the years due to near-criminal misuse of the funds.

CAGW: Up In Smoke: What Happened to the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement Money?, 12/12/17
...

As is often the case, state governments spent this money on purposes other than what was designated. Since the adoption of the MSA, states have turned to the constant stream of their tobacco windfall to do nearly anything they want. Spending on smoking-related healthcare costs and reducing and preventing tobacco use has represented but a fraction of state expenditures relating to the MSA.

The Government Accountability Office reported in February 2007 that 22.9 percent of proceeds from the settlement during Fiscal Years 2000 to 2005 had gone to close state budget shortfalls; 7.1 percent had been spent on “general purposes;” and 6 percent on the politically popular term “infrastructure.” Other notable highlights were that 11.9 percent of funds were “unallocated” and 7.8 percent had been devoted to “Other.” Barely more than a third of the settlement revenues had been spent on health and tobacco control.

In October 2014, the New York Times highlighted some lowlights: millions of tobacco dollars spent on shipping docks in Alaska; on a county building and jail in New York; and, “in the ultimate irony,” $42 million to North Carolina tobacco farmers—“for modernization and marketing,” not to compensate for losses due to declining smoking rates.

A National Institutes of Health study in December 2014 sounded the alarm. The study found that “higher MSA payments are associated with weaker tobacco control environments across states” (emphasis added). It recommended that policymakers “focus on utilizing MSA payments strictly on tobacco control activities across states” and posited that one reason for the negative relationship between MSA payments and tobacco control is because of the actions of state legislatures that have diverted MSA payments towards non-tobacco control activities. Politicians who use the settlement funds for their extraneous projects may be significantly hampering public health.

Besides politicians’ quintessential habit of spending money on things it was not meant for, there is a more insidious way that they have taken advantage of the never-ending stream of money from the tobacco companies. This is called securitization, and it occurs when a cash-strapped state borrows against promised future MSA payments so that it can get the money immediately. The state issues bonds backed up by the promise of future payments. The term “tobacco bonds” is a reference to this irresponsible practice. The buyers of bonds (the most prominent of which are powerful financial institutions) make a handsome long-term profit. State governments and their taxpayers get a raw deal. As the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids warned as early as 2002, states that securitize their tobacco funds get much smaller total payments, “usually for about 40 cents on the dollar or less,” than they would if they let the future revenue come in as planned. Borrowing against future payments in exchange for less money today leads to fewer resources for public health and more money for Wall Street. Yet politicians openly turn to the MSA revenue to cover for their irresponsible spending. For example, in November 2017, as Pennsylvania tried to balance its budget shortfall that had been caused by a refusal to eliminate wasteful spending, securitizing tobacco settlement revenue was the preferred course of all parties. Unfortunately, even some otherwise fiscally responsible politicians like to securitize tobacco revenue, as they consider it a better option than raising taxes.

The Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement simultaneously represents one of the most egregious examples of a government shakedown of private industry and offers a case study of the problems that stem from big government and big business scratching each other’s backs. It has turned the largest tobacco companies into an indispensable cash cow for politicians and bureaucrats, enabled irresponsible state spending, and, amazingly, has resulted in less money for public health and tobacco control while propping up a declining industry. As is the case with discriminatory tobacco taxes, the incentives of the MSA are perverse: the more people smoke, the more money the government gets to spend on whatever it wants. The biggest losers are those with tobacco-related diseases and smokers trying to quit.

People should not be allowed to vote if they are so stupid they don't see the tobacco settlement for the huge scam that it really was all along. And yet, somehow, the pols made it even worse by monetizing the future payments of settlement money so they could spend it all now. So what if you leave your state without the income stream of the settlement money, get only 40% on the dollar, and leave the taxpayers on the hook to make up the difference?

Voters in this country have shit for brains. This is a glaring example. All of these legislators should be turned out of office, possibly prosecuted as well.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-28   10:47:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Tooconservative (#12)

People should not be allowed to vote if they are so stupid they don't see the tobacco settlement for the huge scam that it really was all along.

And yet:

An Oklahoma judge on Monday ordered Johnson & Johnson to pay $572.1 million to the state

Here we go again.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-28   12:22:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Tooconservative (#9)

Are you so ignorant that you don't know that smokers never got any money from the tobacco settlement?

I wasn't referring to "the tobacco settlement". I was referring to both the individual and class action lawsuits filed against the tobacco companies.

Engle v. Liggett Group, 945 So.2d 1246 (Fla. 2006) was a class-action suit involving 700,000 ignorant smokers who initially won their case but lost it on appeal and were forced to sue individually. 2/3 have prevailed, and the cases are still ongoing.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-28   12:33:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: misterwhite, nolu chan (#14)

Engle v. Liggett Group, 945 So.2d 1246 (Fla. 2006) was a class-action suit involving 700,000 ignorant smokers who initially won their case but lost it on appeal and were forced to sue individually. 2/3 have prevailed, and the cases are still ongoing.

That case is so convoluted that I can't find a straightforward recent article to explain whether anyone ever won anything from it. All the appeals and corrections make it hard to find the real info on the outcome? Is the case even settled yet? I know it was a legal nightmare for Big Tobacco.

I thought that cases like these in state courts were the reason that the tobacco companies decided to agree to the federal tobacco settlement action. Then they wouldn't get henpecked to death in various state courts with staggering legal costs. They didn't like the federal deal either but at least they could anticipate the costs and plan for them and also achieve immunity from liability in the future.

Maybe nolu has some interest and could locate a straightforward current explanation of what, if anything, is happening in Engel v. Liggett. Or how it was finally resolved. I honestly can't tell what the status or outcome of the case was.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-28   13:21:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Tooconservative (#15)

That case is so convoluted that I can't find a straightforward recent article to explain whether anyone ever won anything from it.

The smokers won, but it was thrown out on appeal. The judge instructed them to file individual lawsuits.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-28   14:47:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: misterwhite, nolu chan (#16)

The smokers won, but it was thrown out on appeal. The judge instructed them to file individual lawsuits.

Actually, they seem to have won and lost several times and had to start over. Maybe that's why I can't find any final disposition.

It's not a new case. This one goes back to the late Nineties and they won (initially) in 2006. Now justice is slow when dealing with big lawsuits against the legal teams of corporate America but this is unusually slow.

By now, there should be winners and losers and a clear outcome. Otherwise, Big Tobacco just wins by default and as a direct result of machinations of their legal teams and the cowardice of state and federal judges.

There really was a lot of argument between state and federal courts in several bouts that muddied the waters and make it hard to find articles on the outcome(s).

If nolu doesn't want to wade through all of that jargon, I can't blame him. I thought he might have a source that could just give us the quick-and-dirty outcome.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-28   17:43:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Deckard, misterwhite, nolu chan (#0)

I notice John Lott published on this case at Townhall. The key fact I noticed in his writing was that the $572M was just to cover a single year of J&J's liability and only for Oklahoma. Yeow.

I think that such a huge award cannot possibly hold up on appeal.

I decided to include Lott's reporting here on this thread rather than start a new one. Lott, ever the expert statistian, hews to a libertarian fact-based free-market philosophy which we should expect from his previous work. He compares this case pointedly to some other earlier litigation of a similar nature.

Here's What Needs to Happen After the Johnson & Johnson Lawsuit

When General Motors and Ford sell more cars, they are involved in more accidents. They undoubtedly advertise more in those places where they sell more cars. Does that mean that the car companies are responsible for additional accidents in those places? That they are purposefully plotting to create more accidents?

Let’s hope not, but if Monday’s $570 million verdict by an Oklahoma judge against Johnson & Johnson for making opioids is any indication, those types of cases aren’t going to be far off. Oklahoma had refused to settle out of court believing that they could receive a very large verdict. And the actual verdict is much larger than it might appear as it just represents the penalty for damages from a single year. 

The state of Oklahoma claimed Johnson & Johnson and other pharmaceutical companies spent tens of millions of dollars annually in direct-to-physician marketing of opioids and that as opioid sales grew, so did addiction and overdoses.

 “That’s the message to other states: We did it in Oklahoma. You can do it elsewhere,” Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Hunter said on Monday. He said that their case provided a “road map” for other states to follow in holding drugmakers responsible for the deaths and addiction created by the drugs.

Exhibit 1 for Oklahoma’s case has been a set of studies like one in the Journal of the American Medical Association. The authors claimed they found an “association between pharmaceutical company marketing of opioids to physicians and deaths from prescription opioid overdoses, we found that counties receiving such marketing subsequently experienced elevated mortality. In addition, opioid prescribing rates were strongly associated with the burden of opioid marketing across counties and partly mediated the association between marketing and deaths from opioid overdoses.”

One wonders why such a study was needed, but, as usual, the public health researchers grossly misinterpreted their results. More drug use means more people get addicted, but that doesn’t mean they have done something wrong. The drugs also made life livable for a lot of people.

If you think that this is an idea that you have heard about before, you probably have. About 20 years ago this “public nuisance” theory was tried in lawsuits by cities against gun makers. The 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act stopped many cities from simultaneously bringing these suits and bankrupting the gun makers. The law doesn’t protect the gun makers from making faulty products or from lying to customers or if they break the law.

This claim is no different than the car example mentioned earlier. This applies to other cases. More surgeries are more likely to result in more malpractice claims and deaths from those surgeries. Presumably, also the more doctors recommend surgery to their patients (read “marketing”) the more people will have surgery and the more malpractice cases there will be. 

Here is one example litigious lawyers might appreciate. More lawyers mean more legal cases and more malpractice cases by lawyers. Should we then sue law schools for producing more lawyers?

With every product, the more that it is used, the number of problems that will arise will be greater. That is true even if the rate of problems is very low.

According to Oklahoma, Johnson & Johnson marketed the drugs irresponsibly. “Many studies show that opioids are rarely addictive when used properly for the management of chronic pain,” was a claim in one of the company’s marketing materials. 

Unfortunately, not everyone uses the drugs properly. Just like not everyone drives their car correctly and not all lawyers or doctors practice their professions correctly, Johnson & Johnson’s statement was exactly right. Having people abuse a drug is no different than people driving too fast. According to the National Institute of Drug Abuse, around 8 to 12 percent misuse opioids and develop an opioid use disorder, with as many as 6 percent transitioning to other drugs such as heroin. 

The problem is the cases brought by Oklahoma and numerous other states will be used to create new precedents that will allow cases to be brought against all sorts of other companies. It looks like it is about time that we pass a Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act for all other companies.

* Lott is the president of the Crime Prevention Research Center and the author most recently of “The War on Guns.”

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-28   19:01:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Deckard, misterwhite (#0)

Article: "Balkman said in his written ruling that the award covered only one year of addressing the crisis because Oklahoma did not demonstrate the time and costs needed beyond that."

I missed this sentence in my earlier reading and posts about it.

$572M for a single year? What, J&J turned half the Okies into slobbering depraved heroin addicts or something?

That is an insane award for any judge to make.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-28   19:05:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: misterwhite (#1)

So how are these deaths the fault of anyone but the user? What a bullshit ruling.

The liberal ideology, is pass blame. It’s a small part of the liberal lefts plan to mentally WEAKEN the sheeple. A weak populace is an easier group to enable.

Also, anyone fucking stupid enough to develop an addiction to prescription drugs, is fucking dumb enough to vote (D) and perfectly willing to live in servitude by drugs or liberal government

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-08-28   20:15:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: GrandIsland (#20)

The liberal ideology, is pass blame ...

… to the one with the deepest pockets.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-29   9:38:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Tooconservative (#19)

$572M for a single year?

They can only work that much into the annual budget.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-29   9:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Tooconservative (#18)

and that as opioid sales grew, so did addiction and overdoses.

I bet they grew through Medicaid. Claim back pain, get a free 30-day supply of 90 Oxycontin, and sell them for $10 each.

Then sue Johnson & Johnson because you're unable or unwilling to stop this from happening.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-29   9:48:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: misterwhite (#23)

I bet they grew through Medicaid. Claim back pain, get a free 30-day supply of 90 Oxycontin, and sell them for $10 each.

I see you are aware of how much 0bamaCare contributed to the growth of the crisis.

Shady doctors, handing out opiods and other drugs to newly enrolled Medicaid people who use those prescriptions to make hard cash. They can use a McJob at a fast food joint, perhaps part-time, to make the minimum qualifying standard for subsidy (about $13K/year) and not have to pay anything to be part of the 0bamaCare system. And they get free or subsidized drugs which can be sold for a lot of cash. And they are careful not to exceed the base pay to qualify for fully-subsidized 0-care. Nice.

I haven't yet seen any hard data on how much this occurred but my guess is that people learned to game that system in only a year or two. There have been a few studies that dipped their toes into the data but nothing you could call comprehensive. We know it has happened but not the true scale of this kind of fraud.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-29   11:19:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Tooconservative (#24) (Edited)

There have been a few studies that dipped their toes into the data but nothing you could call comprehensive.

Imagine the outcry if a credible study was done which documented the abuse of the welfare system and the abusers.

It would be less well received than The Bell Curve.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-08-29   14:24:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: misterwhite (#25)

You wouldn't be able to publish it, no matter how compelling the data.

They'd start screaming white supremacy at the first hint.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-29   21:40:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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