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U.S. Constitution
See other U.S. Constitution Articles

Title: Treason and Sedition Alert: Repeal the Second Amendment
Source: FromThe Trenches
URL Source: http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.c ... al-the-second-amendment/222233
Published: Mar 27, 2018
Author: ohn Paul Stevens
Post Date: 2018-03-27 11:16:48 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 1183
Comments: 24

Rarely in my lifetime have I seen the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated in Washington and other major cities throughout the country this past Saturday. These demonstrations demand our respect. They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society. 

That support is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms. But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform. They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment.

Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.

For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.

That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable — has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power. Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world. It would make our schoolchildren safer than they have been since 2008 and honor the memories of the many, indeed far too many, victims of recent gun violence.

John Paul Stevens is a retired associate justice of the United States Supreme Court.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 24.

#4. To: Deckard (#0)

It is neither seditious nor treasonous to do what John Paul Stevens did here. In fact, his suggestion is a refreshing breath of honesty.

We have constitutionally-protected gun rights in America because of the Constitutional itself, specifically the second amendment thereto. A large number of people don't like that. They don't like what they perceive to be the results of it.

To try to suppress gun rights while IGNORING the Second Amendment is what is unconstitutional and wrong. What Justice Stevens has suggested here is the honest and straightforward way we are supposed to do things in America: don't like some aspect of the Constitutional order? Repeal it!

If enough people oppose gun rights that 2/3 of both houses of Congress vote to propose a repeal of the Amendment to the states, and 3/4 of the states vote to repeal it, then the Second Amendment (or any other amendment) is gone.

In a similar vein, an issue about which I care intensely: abortion, specifically stopping it. Since the Supreme Court has ruled that abortion is a constitutional right, it is. The only ways to change that are to either change the composition of the Supreme Court through appointees who will reverse the original decision and say it's NOT a constitutional right, or amend the Constitution itself, so that the Supreme Court has no authority to rule otherwise. That's it.

People who oppose the 2nd Amendment have the same legitimate right to oppose it that I have the right to oppose abortion. They have the same right to call for a constitutional amendment that fulfills their wishes. John Paul Stevens called for repeal of the 2nd Amendment, and I just proposed an anti- abortion amendment. He and I are both fully within our rights as Americans to say exactly what we said, and both of us correctly identified the level at which the government must be changed to effect the changes we desire: constitutional amendment, nothing less.

The other thing he and I have in common is that we're both going to lose. There is nothing close to the 2/3rds of Congress, 3/4ths of the state legislatures out there who agree. The majority of Americans want abortion rights, and want gun rights. To change the Constitution would require thwarting their will. Not going to happen any time soon.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-03-27   17:14:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13 (#4)

He and I are both fully within our rights as Americans to say exactly what we said, and both of us correctly identified the level at which the government must be changed to effect the changes we desire: constitutional amendment, nothing less.

Stevens also railed against the 2008 Supreme Court District of Columbia v. Heller decision that established an individual right to bear arms. “That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable -----"

. It's not debatable, in my opinion, because our right to arms, to self defense, is inalienable.. ---- A basic right, like life and liberty...

Thus, ---- it's repeal would be unconstitutional.

And while you have the right to call for it's repeal. --- we who oppose you have the right to call you seditious.

tpaine  posted on  2018-03-27   18:46:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: tpaine (#5)

And while you have the right to call for it's repeal. --- we who oppose you have the right to call you seditious.

You have the right to call me a purple sea turtle if it floats your boat.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-03-27   22:56:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Vicomte13 (#9)

Seditious will do just fine... Any further comments about the following?

Our right to arms is inalienable.. A basic right, like life and liberty... ---- Thus, ---- it's repeal would be unconstitutional.

Our right to be armed, to defend ourselves, cannot be voted away by others..

Just as our right to life and liberty cannot... These rights are inherant and basic...

tpaine  posted on  2018-03-28   1:52:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: tpaine (#10)

The constitution isn't morality.

Would it be unconstitutional to bring slavery back?

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-03-28   8:12:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: A K A Stone (#11)

The constitution isn't morality.

Would it be unconstitutional to bring slavery back?

Nothing in my comments is about morality, --- they are facts. --- And our rights to life and liberty are violated by slavery, of course...

Our right to arms is inalienable.. A basic right, like life and liberty... ---- Thus, ---- it's repeal would be unconstitutional.

Our right to be armed, to defend ourselves, cannot be voted away by others..

Just as our right to life and liberty cannot... These rights are inherant and basic...

tpaine  posted on  2018-03-28   12:38:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: tpaine (#13)

Thus, ---- it's repeal would be unconstitutional.

No, it wouldn't be.

The Constitution is a man-made law. It's the "supreme law of the land", according to its own text.

(Many have always disagreed with this, and said that God's law is the Supreme Law of ALL lands, including this one, and that man's law under the Constitution cannot violate God's law - but of course that's not true: American law, under the Constitution, often DOES violate God's law, and American courts and cops enforce man's law, not God's.)

This "supreme law of the land" contains within itself a section that provides TWO different ways by which it can be amended, and it can be amended by that process. The Second Amendment was added to the Constitution by just that process: it was not in the original document. It can be removed, by the same process, and that process and the removing would, by definition, be constitutional.

Would it be RIGHT? Well, what's "right"? We all have opinions on that. Where the argument comes out is decided by politics, under the Constitution..

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-03-28   13:07:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Vicomte13 (#15)

The Constitution is a man-made law. It's the "supreme law of the land", according to its own text.

The bill of rights, our first amendments,--- are also a list of rights, some inalienable, (unable to be amended away), some merely man made laws, as you say.

Our right to be armed, to defend ourselves, cannot be voted away by others.. Just as our right to life and liberty cannot... These rights are inherant and basic... They can be forfeited of course, by committing capital crimes.

Our right to arms is inalienable.. A basic right, like life and liberty... ---- Thus, ---- it's repeal would be unconstitutional.

You do believe that we have an inalienable right to life, don't you?

tpaine  posted on  2018-03-28   13:45:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: tpaine (#16)

You do believe that we have an inalienable right to life, don't you?

I believe we do, from God.

Our Constitution does not, however. Abortion is Constitutional.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-03-28   15:48:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Vicomte13 (#18)

You do believe that we have an inalienable right to life, don't you?

I believe we do, from God. ---- Our Constitution does not, however.

The Ninth mentions certain other rights that shall not be denied.. The 14th enumerates life and liberty.

You admit just above that our right to life is unalienable.. Thanks again...

tpaine  posted on  2018-03-28   20:31:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: tpaine (#20)

You admit just above that our right to life is unalienable.. Thanks again...

I said that it is unalienable under the Laws of God, but that is not true under the Constitution of the United States.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-03-28   21:30:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Vicomte13 (#22)

You do believe that we have an inalienable right to life, don't you? -- tpaine

Vicomte13 (#18) ---- I believe we do, from God. ---- Our Constitution does not, however.

The Ninth mentions certain other rights that shall not be denied.. The 14th enumerates life and liberty. ---- You admit just above that our right to life is unalienable.. Thanks again... -- tpaine

I said that it is unalienable under the Laws of God, but that is not true under the Constitution of the United States.

I know what you said, -- if you don't want to comment on my reply, fine.

tpaine  posted on  2018-03-28   22:06:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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