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Title: NARRATIVE FAIL: Florida School Shooter Did NOT Use 'High-Capacity' Magazines
Source: DailyWire
URL Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/2779 ... oter-did-not-use-ryan-saavedra
Published: Mar 2, 2018
Author: Ryan Saavedra
Post Date: 2018-03-02 22:01:41 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 4164
Comments: 51

While Democratic politicians insist on infringing on the rights of law-abiding Americans to prevent the next mass shooting, a report from earlier this week that received barely any attention shows that their efforts would not have stopped the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School gunman.

House Democrats introduced an assault weapons ban bill this week that would also "prohibit the sale, transfer, production, and importation of semi-automatic rifles and pistols that have a magazine or can accept a magazine that can hold more than 10 bullets, and any ammunition-feeding device that can hold more than 10 bullets."

This bill would have done nothing to prevent the Parkland shooting as the gunman did not use "high-capacity" magazines, he used 10-round magazines. The Miami Herald reports:
Several state legislators who visited the school with crime-scene investigators said they learned from police that [the shooter]’s rifle was not top-of-the-line, perhaps explaining the malfunction.

[The shooter] went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag. ...

The information came from Democratic State Sen. Lauren Book (Plantation) who said the "weapon and bullets were not high quality and were breaking apart." The Herald further noted:
Before the weapon jammed, the 19-year-old tried to shoot out a third-floor window in the freshman building of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School so he could spray bullets onto helpless students and staff below. But the hurricane-impact glass did not break.

A weapons expert told the Herald that jamming is a major weakness of the AR-15 platform and that the rifles “are prone to this type of problem if not cleaned thoroughly.”

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 27.

#1. To: Tooconservative (#0)

A weapons expert told the Herald that jamming is a major weakness of the AR-15 platform and that the rifles “are prone to this type of problem if not cleaned thoroughly.”

That was established since they were introduced in Viet Nam.

rlk  posted on  2018-03-02   22:47:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: rlk, Liberator, GrandIsland (#1)

What do you make of this?

The information came from Democratic State Sen. Lauren Book (Plantation) who said the "weapon and bullets were not high quality and were breaking apart."

Admittedly a liberal Dem and a woman so she probably knows less than nothing about guns. I'm wondering how cheap the ammo or how dirty the gun would be if it was actually "breaking apart".

This might explain why he threw his gun down and tried to escape. Maybe it just stopped working and the little psycho lost his nerve entirely.

After 2 weeks, the info we should have had after one day just slowly trickles out.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-02   23:06:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Tooconservative (#2) (Edited)

the little psycho lost his nerve entirely.

That's my guess.

All the AR's I've trained on, with or own, operated flawlessly. If the gun is stamped 5.56 then only shoot 5.56. .223 isn't as hot as 5.56. That won't be investigated findings most likely released to the public... if he was feeding .223 through a 5.56 stamped weapon or feeding 5.56 through an AR stamped.223.

It also could be operator error, being he was a young dumb stupid fucking millennial behind the weapon. Our youth today can fuck up a wet dream.

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-03-03   7:23:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: GrandIsland, misterwhite (#3)

All the AR's I've trained on, with or own, operated flawlessly.

I recall you have 3-4 of these. I'm still shopping around. Care to mention the brands and models you like most? And whether you choose the .223 or the 5.56. I assume you aren't building your own. I did notice that Cody guy is selling his auto-CNC milling machines as fast as he can make them, mostly to shipping addresses in TX and CA. I dunno, making unregistered guns without serial numbers sounds like trouble waiting to happen, even in Montana.

if he was feeding .223 through a 5.56 stamped weapon or feeding 5.56 through an AR stamped .223.

Is that a problem with quality guns or just the cheapos? I've read it is a lot more problematic with cheapo guns.

At places like rifleshootermag.com, you read stuff like:

Today, the difference can be marked. The leade on a proper 5.56 chamber is twice or more than that of a .223 chamber, and the onset angle of the 5.56 rifling creates a ramp with four times the distance. Firing .223 in a .223 chamber, or a 5.56 chamber, is not a problem. But firing real-deal 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber can be a big problem.

The SAAMI-spec maximum average pressure for the .223, measured at the middle of the case, is 55,000 psi. The NATO spec for 5.56 is determined by SAAMI’s European counterpart, CIP. CIP measures at the case mouth and lists the 5.56 pressure spec of 62,000 psi. Measured at the case middle as SAAMI does, it shows 60,000 psi—so either way it’s higher than the .223.

But the problem isn’t just pressure. That CIP pressure of 62,000 psi? It is measured in a 5.56 chamber. If we take the same round, which shows 60,000 psi per SAAMI (which is already 5,000 psi over the .223 max) and put it into a .223 chamber, things get ugly. The pressure spike piles onto an already over-pressure round.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-03   10:29:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Tooconservative (#6)

I own AR's made by Colt, RockRiver Arms and BushMaster.

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-03-03   11:14:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: GrandIsland, misterwhite (#7) (Edited)

I own AR's made by Colt, RockRiver Arms and BushMaster.

Which models of each? Did you kit-build the Rock River rifle (I've read that's big with the Rock River buyers)? Which do you think represent the best values?

I've stopped looking at the cheaper guns and have been looking at the guns in the $900-$1200 range. And while I don't like EU in general, I keep returning to the CZ 805 Bren S1 at around $1600, probably more gun than I can justify buying, given my modest shooting ability.

The Bushmaster is American-built and ubiquitous. What do you think of a starter kit like this one:

GunsAmerica: Bushmaster XM15 Lite Weight, Quick Response Carbine QRC SuperKit 5.56/.223

This one is listed $1375 but they are offering some discount packages with the same gear for $1275.

I know buying a kit takes some of the fun out of shopping for accessories (scopes, laser, flashlight, tripod, mags) but I overshop so much that it often ruins buying something and I kinda hate what I bought as a result.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-03   11:53:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Tooconservative (#9)

I know buying a kit takes some of the fun out of shopping for accessories

That is the fun part. But you may end up replacing those anyways. When a rifle is loaded up that way, the seller doesn't usually provide top quality accessories.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-03-03   14:30:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: misterwhite (#12)

That is the fun part.

Not for me. Over the years, the whole shopping experience has become excruciating for me. Having too many choices actually makes me unhappy.

When a rifle is loaded up that way, the seller doesn't usually provide top quality accessories.

That particular seller is quite...parsimonious...about revealing some of the brand names on the accessories being sold. Most of the time, you can identify them from the pics but you have to wonder why they deliberately choose to omit the brand/model of each accessory in the package. Well, obviously they do it for a reason, it's no oversight.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-03   15:16:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Tooconservative (#13) (Edited)

Plus he threw in a folding bipod, laser sight, forward grip and flashlight -- in addition to the red dot, 4X scope and iron sights. There may be an AM/FM radio I overlooked.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-03-03   18:30:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: misterwhite (#15)

I wouldn't be surprised if they give more info if you register for the site. What I'm seeing is the looky-loo version. If you were logged in on their site - and therefore a lot more serious - you might get full details from their listings. Otherwise, I can see no reason why anyone would buy any of their package deals. Yet, I see they offer a lot of those, for most any gun they sell. So someone must like their superkit deals. Selling guns is way too competitive for people to spend on package deals like that without more info than what we see on that site. So there has to be more to it, I think.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-03   20:21:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Tooconservative (#16)

"I wouldn't be surprised if they give more info if you register for the site."

If you scroll down, you'll find the following info (which I've reorganized):

* Bushmaster AR15 Quick Respons Carbine Rifle .223/5.56mm

* (5) 30-round Magazines

* Plano Locking Hard Case 42"

* Weather Guard High Profile Red Dot Sight

* Heavy-Duty, Single-Point, Nylon Sling

* UTG Rail Covers

* Vector Optics Bipod

* Vector Optics Ultra-bright Green Laser

* 150-lumen Weapon light

* Aluminum carbine-length quad rail

* Light weight foregrip with pressure switch for the green laser

* 4x Vector Optics Goliath Scope with Red, Green and Blue illuminated reticle.

You can search the web for prices on most of these accessories. The red dot sight, for example, is $69. Hmmmm.

My advice. Get the basic Bushmaster and accessorize as you get the money. Take your time. Do your research on the items that fit your needs.

For example, I do most of my shooting at 50 yards outdoors. I calibrated my sights for 50 yards. So I don't need a scope, laser, flashlight, bipod, etc. I used that money to buy quality accessories.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-03-04   11:49:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: misterwhite (#17)

You can search the web for prices on most of these accessories. The red dot sight, for example, is $69. Hmmmm.

That sounds downright lame.

My advice. Get the basic Bushmaster and accessorize as you get the money.

I can pretty much buy what I want, limited by my Scroogey instincts.

I've been looking more recently at Sig Sauer MPX, IWI mini-Tabor, Steyr AUG. I think I mentioned before that I want one really good rifle to be my mainstay, not some endless cycle of upgrades, even if most people just love all the upgrades available. I do like the the Bushmaster AR-15s but they're still a $750 gun. Maybe a bit more. I see some AR-15s (like Colt's) are up $150-$200 since the Florida shooting, possibly ending the "Trump slump" the gun industry has been in for the last year. Of course, that affects the mass market guns like the AR-15s much more than the higher-end rifles where I've noticed almost no price changes. Trump's gungrabbing remarks have helped the lower end of the gun market a lot more than the high-end stuff.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-04   12:15:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Tooconservative (#18)

I've been looking more recently at Sig Sauer MPX, IWI mini-Tabor, Steyr AUG.

Nice guns. You like the bullpups?

misterwhite  posted on  2018-03-04   12:45:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#19)

Nice guns. You like the bullpups?

Does it show?     : )

Yeah. As long as stuff doesn't get blown in my face. I'll always shoot with hearing protection anyway unless it's a (unlikely) sudden home defense scenario. I see online how some guys have had to make "beard guards" to get their beards from catching on fire when shooting a few of these guns, at least from the left shoulder. I don't have a beard but that just sounds bad to me. LOL

Some of these effects can be minimized with fairly inexpensive aftermarket addons to redirect spent shells and exhaust. But I know that you can appreciate why I try to be conscious of ambidexterity. These high-end guns all claim to be ambidextrous but some really fall short compared to the others. I'll always shoot right-handed but, if I'm buying an alleged ambidextrous rifle, I want it to be actually ambidextrous (without setting somebody's beard on fire). These are high-end guns; I don't want any chickenshit surprises after the purchase.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-04   13:22:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Tooconservative (#21)

Quick overview of some quality rifles.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-03-04   20:55:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: misterwhite (#23) (Edited)

Quick overview of some quality rifles.

Interesting selection and ratings. He seems to reach many of the same conclusions I've read and seen in other reviews of these guns. He covered the top non-AR15 choices in December 2016. There have been a few changes in the rankings of what's hot and what's not.

For all I complain about overshopping, you also need to do some due diligence so you don't get a nasty surprise later.

Even excluding the AR15 from this guy's list, most of these guns still accept multiple AR-15 addons like triggers. You can't really just discount all the aftermarket stuff. Especially when so many guns come with just iron sights (or no sights) and second-rate triggers.

AR-15 is still the gorilla in the room, even if you're trying to pretend it's not there.

They offer a 10" barrel as an option, but never did come out with the .300 AAC Blackout barrel.

He indicates that several of these guns could have become very major players but for scarcity of aftermarket part options. Other guns did get the accessories and were more successful. The AR-15 and some of these high-end guns have those accessories or can use some of the AR-15 stuff.

AR-15. It is that gorilla. It seems to suck dry the entire aftermarket parts industry. You can't ignore it. The more I've shopped, the more it strikes me how dominant it really is now.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-04   22:14:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Tooconservative (#24)

Even excluding the AR15 from this guy's list,

It should be excluded. How can you compare a $750 second generation rifle to these monsters? It's not fair to either side.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-03-05   9:34:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: misterwhite (#26)

My point was that even when you try to exclude the AR-15, its aftermarket parts availability affects many of these weapons as well.

You can't entirely exclude the AR-15. It's still there with its mags, its triggers, its control/trigger grouping, its stocks, etc. And the ready availability and choices of those AR-15 parts affects your purchase decisions even if you aren't buying an AR-15.

I am still looking at the CZ 805 Bren (SCAR knockoff for $800 less) and at the SCAR 16 itself (it pushes my Scrooge button and it's just too big for me). But the SCAR is a larger rifle than I want and the CZ Bren is a little too proprietary with a lack of aftermarket support. So I'm still leaning toward IWI Tavor Gen 2, the "micro-Tavor". It's third-gen, modern, bullpup, takes some AR-15 accessories, etc. They made some mistakes with their Gen 1 but have made those right IMO. And you can rely on IWI to continue supporting it, both as a military/police rifle and as a very profitable civilian rifle here in the States.

Oy vey! LOL

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-05   10:51:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 27.

#28. To: Tooconservative (#27) (Edited)

So I'm still leaning toward IWI Tavor Gen 2

If I ever got a bullpup, I'd probably get the IWI Tavor X95 (converted to left- hand shooting, of course). Excellent for close quarters, but not all that great on the range at 100 yards.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-03-05 13:59:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 27.

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