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Title: Preachers Jailed for Talking About Christianity Without Getting Police Permission First
Source:
Free Thought Project/Rutherford Institute
URL Source: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/pr ... tting-police-permission-first/
Published: Feb 17, 2018
Author: John Whitehead
Post Date: 2018-02-17 09:37:00 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 1214
Comments: 49
West Windsor, NJ — (Rutherford Institute) Two street preachers are targeted, confronted and eventually arrested by transit officers who insist that they stop talking about their Christian beliefs without getting the agency’s permission first, and the courts say that’s all right. But the Rutherford Institute thinks otherwise, and that’s why it’s seeking a rehearing before the entire 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals in a First Amendment case involving preachers Don Karns and Robert Parker. A panel of the appeals court previously ruled that the two transit officers, Kathleen Shanahan and Sandra McKeon Crowe, were justified in ordering the preachers to be quiet, grilling them over their activities, and then arresting and charging them – all because they were sharing their beliefs in a public location. “This case sheds light on a disconcerting bureaucratic mindset that wants us to believe that the government has the power to both bestow rights on the citizenry and withdraw those rights when it becomes necessary, whether it’s the right to proselytize on a train platform, the right to address one’s representatives at a city council meeting, or the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures,” said constitutional attorney John W. Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute. “Yet those who founded this country believed that our rights are unalienable, meaning that no man or government can take them away from us. Thus, the problem in this case is not the absence of any specific law allowing free speech on the train platform. Rather, the problem is government officials who have forgotten that they work for us and their primary purpose is to safeguard our rights.” Rutherford is seeking a rehearing in the case that erupted when Karns and Parker were preaching at a Princeton, New Jersey, train station. They were charged with trespass and obstruction of justice but eventually cleared of the charges. They then sued the New Jersey Transit Corp. and the officers over the demand that they “obtain a permit” to talk, non-commercially, with others at the public station. The appeals court panel said the officers were immune from claims that they violated the preachers’ constitutional rights – under the First, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments. It was on June 26, 2012, when Karns and Parker began sharing their Christian beliefs with members of the public at the Princeton Junction Station of the NJTC. “No notices were posted at the station prohibiting or restricting First Amendment activities,” Rutherford explained. But they quickly were confronted by Shanahan and Crowe, who first demanded identification, then told them they could not speak without the agency’s permission. When Karns and Parker asserted the train station was a public area, they were arrested. After they were cleared of those counts, the Rutherford Institute filed a civil rights case against the officers for discriminating against them on the basis of the religious content of their speech.
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#9. To: Liberator (#7)
No,but like Stalin,you want everyone to be a slave to your religion. People have a right to walk down the street without being bothered by these yahoos. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Your freedom ends where others begins,and you have all the freedom of religion yuo want in your church. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
don't want people shouting in their face You have a "permit" to shout in our faces? "If you see something, say something". I'm not a ratfink, so I'm not going to report this horrendous violation of PC. /s It's not any kind of a crime to talk to people, even about religion.
We have freedom of speech on the streets to. You don't constitutionally require a permit. If you don't like it snaek a Peter and you'll be happy again. If you are walking down the street I can stick a sign in your face that says you're going to hell. If you tried to stop me and touched me I would break both your legs. Then you'd really have a tough time moving around.
It is if they don't want to hear it and tell you to leave them alone. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
You do if you are preaching,and nobody has a right to harass anyone who tells them "Leave me alone". In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
To not harm you of course. But your faggot lovining snowflake ears don't have a right to not be offended. Snowflake Peter believes you have more free speech on the internet then you do on the streets.
Maybe pete thinks that Christians are only allowed to practice their First Amendment rights here: But your faggot lovining snowflake ears don't have a right to not be offended. I can't wait to see what you have to say with "The Church of Homosexual Jesus" comes up to you on the street and shouts in your face stuff like "Jesus said to love your fellow man! If you do not have sex with other men you are going against GAWDS will!" Or someone comes up ranting about how the age of consent for girls to have sex with men should be 8,Mary Magdalene was a whore so legalize prostitution,etc,etc,etc. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
You have the right to say anything you want to say to each other in a private conversation,in your cult center,on your Sunday tv scamathon,etc,etc,etc. People that don't want to hear it can easily avoid it. What you don't have is the right to get into anyone else's face about your superstitions as they walk down the street minding their own business.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Or someone comes up ranting about how the age of consent for girls to have sex with men should be 8,Mary Magdalene was a whore so legalize prostitution,etc,etc,etc. Yawn. Fools will be fools.
You mean you haven't noticed this ALREADY happening? Except that in your analogy, Man replaces "GAWD'S" will or "Jesus'". Society is ALREADY being shouted at by people, orgs, and institutions who are indeed making the SAME demands on behalf of "The Church of Homosexual." Where you ask? EVERYWHERE. On TV. Movies. MANDATED at Public schools. College Campuses. The Social Media as well as MSM. Corporations. Even at so-called, "Christian Churches." ENFORCED BY GUBMINT INSTITUTIONS AND LAWS. Ever hear of "HATE CRIMES"? Or "HATE SPEECH"? Sure you have. They are Special Protections and laws enacted EXCLUSIVELY for "The Church of Homosexual."
What you don't have is the right to get into anyone else's face about your superstitions as they walk down the street minding their own business. You mean like the hysterical Liberals, Antifa, Homofascists, Mad-Pussyhatters and various other insane Church of Progressivism groups? Yeah, I agree. OTOH, Christians are NOT "screaming" at anyone. So why are you exaggerating??
It seems like you want to drive Christians off of the streets and underground into the catacombs to watch Pope Francis Vatican Mass on TV? Imagine what the streets would be like then, nothing but weirdos and pervs! The catacombs were underground rooms and passageways that served as mausoleums in which the ancient Romans buried their dead. When the persecutions began and intensified under Nero, the Christians found that they could retreat into these labyrinthine networks of tunnels to escape the notice or pursuit of Roman soldiers or citizens wishing to turn them in to the authorities. The Early Church developed a vast support network and series of hiding places based on the catacombs. Meanwhile, the use of a public mausoleum as a hiding place caused wild rumors about Christian rituals and practice to spread amongst the Romans. Some Romans believed that the Christians sacrificed their children and performed bizarre, secret worship rituals at midnight. Another rumor was that the Christians drank human blood. This may have come from a misinterpretation of Jesus' command: "Behold, This is my blood. Take ye and drink in remembrance of Me." Today, the Catacombs attract visitors from all over the world. The Christian Church spread throughout the world largely as a result of the persecutions by the Romans. The faithful come to see the places where the early ssaints gathered and the students of history to marvel at the sheer extent of these massive underground galleries and chambers.
Somehow I don't believe that was what the Founders had in mind when they wrote the First Amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances No. The only time I "talk" about religion,or even think about it,is when I am on a web site and some "true believer" thinks he's Moses declaring the 10 Commandments to be the Law of the Land. Ever hear of "HATE CRIMES"? Or "HATE SPEECH"? Sure you have. They are Special Protections and laws enacted EXCLUSIVELY for "The Church of Homosexual." I am no fan of that church,either. I'm a live and let live guy. I don't care what you want to believe,as long as you don't try to insist that I have to live according to your beliefs,or that your beliefs trumps the Bill of Rights. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
My beliefs Trump the bill of rights. The Bible trumps the bill of rights in spades.
Yes,they are no different than the Bible Thumpers shouting their insanity and demanding everybody fall in line and follow their beliefs. Same dance,different song. OTOH, Christians are NOT "screaming" at anyone. So why are you exaggerating?? HorseHillary! One of the biggest lies ever told. I even remember the airport out in Denver having to get a restraining order to keep a local fundie preacher and his flock of fools from harassing passenger going through the terminal,shouting hell fire and damnation,and telling people God wanted them to donate money. I've seen and heard similar crap my whole life,and so have you. You just happen to agree with it so you don't see it as harassment. I even had to chase a Born Again off a job site because the SOB just would NOT listen to reason when I told him to leave me alone because I didn't want to hear it. He didn't listen,so I went after him. I guess maybe you think he had a right to harass me because he was "doing the Lords work and trying to save my soul",right. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
The Bible trumps the bill of rights in spades. Therefore: KJV, both (Leviticus 24:17-23; Luke 6:27-36) 43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Not true. I don't give a damn where they go,as long as they leave me alone and don't go shouting in my face and waving a Bible at me. You have a right to believe any damn fool thing you want to believe if that's what makes you happy,but you don't have the right to push that crap off on me once I tell you I don't want to hear it. BTW,You don't own the bleeping streets,either. If you want to preach,go to your version of Section 8 housing with the steeple and preach there. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
I believe that would be mission impossible.
Believe whatever you want,just don't try to use the force of law to try to force me to agree with it. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,... See,you can copy and past a simple sentence,but you still can't understand it because establishing YOUR superstition as the law of the land is EXACTLY what you want. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
If little faggoty snowflakes dont want their little girl feelings hurt they should stay indoors on their personal property. Little faggoty snowflakes don't have a right to demand anyone shut up. Even if it makes them cry.
Only on Planet KooKoo. BTW,WHICH Bible? Or are you claiming they all trump the BoR's? Good to see you come out of the closet and admit you are an anti-American that wants to establish a religious police state,though. Maybe you could get some Muslim clerics to give you some tips on how to run it? In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
I believe that would be mission impossible. And you are right. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
So,when are you going to start? In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Nice post buck.
You sound like your finally out of the closet little peter.
So,when are you going to start? "I know you are but what am I." At least you have graduated to second grade retorts.
So if one of your queer relatives came up and said I'm married to a fag. Then I tell him to shut up and if he doesn't he is breaking the law? No prter even fags have free speech and I would have no constitutional right to make it shut up as offensive as it may be.
Idiot the constitution's first amendment only recognized pre existing rights How can a pre existing right be trumped by a document who recognizes it?
Maybe you can get some Muslims to go to your house and play with your goats.
My beliefs Trump the bill of rights. ----- A K A Stone AKA --- Do you really believe and insist that others should have to live according to your beliefs? This position violates every principle inherent in our Constitutional Republic...
I didn't say that and I don't believe that. However what I say is the truth. No one forced to accept it. That's the way I want to live my life and nobody's going to convince me otherwise
Which one of us is thinking about the size of the others penis? In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Is that the best you can do,Bubba? Maybe you need to go back to your cult leader and get some quotes? In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Yes. How can you possibly be so dense you can't understand that is harrassment,which is one form of attack? If he does it in his house,it's legal because you have the option of leaving. If he does it in your house or in public and refuses to back away and leave you alone,you have been verbally,and maybe even physically assaulted. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
What right does the Bible give you,other than the right to burn in hell for eternity if you don't follow the rules like a good little slave? In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
The Bill of Rights is just a "document" that recognized "pre existing rights"? The BoR is a STATEMENT that NATURAL RIGHTS will be respected. Those are the rights all humans are said to be born with. Pre existing rights will vary from one place to another,depending on local history. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Most Christians believe that these rights don't pre-exist God. He created them too. God came first,then your rights. Have you thanked him today?
You are free to believe anything you want to believe. God came first,then your rights. Have you thanked him today? No,and for the same reason I never thanked the Santa,the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. Fictional creatures don't need thanks. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
You do have a bit of old-school Soviet Stalinist in you, dontcha?
#10. To: paraclete (#8)
so much for freedom of speech and freedom of religion
#11. To: sneakypete, Liberator (#6)
The TRUTH is EVERYBODY has to have a permit demonstrate on the public streets
#12. To: sneakypete (#10)
#13. To: hondo68 (#11)
It's not any kind of a crime to talk to people, even about religion.
#14. To: A K A Stone (#12)
We have freedom of speech on the streets to. You don't constitutionally require a permit.
#15. To: sneakypete (#14)
(Edited)
You do if you are preaching,and nobody has a right to harass anyone who tells them "Leave me alone".
#16. To: A K A Stone, sneakypete, hondo68 (#12)
(Edited)
We have freedom of speech on the streets to. You don't constitutionally require a permit.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#17. To: A K A Stone (#15)
To not harm you of course.
#18. To: Deckard (#16)
#19. To: sneakypete (#17)
can't wait to see what you have to say with "The Church of Homosexual Jesus" comes up to you on the street and shouts in your face stuff like "Jesus said to love your fellow man! If you do not have sex with other men you are going against GAWDS will!"
#20. To: sneakypete, A K A Stone (#17)
I can't wait to see what you have to say with "The Church of Homosexual Jesus" comes up to you on the street and shouts in your face stuff like "Jesus said to love your fellow man! If you do not have sex with other men you are going against GAWDS will!"
#21. To: sneakypete, Deckard (#18)
(Edited)
People that don't want to hear it can easily avoid it.
#22. To: sneakypete, Deckard, A K A Stone, Liberator (#18)
You have the right to say anything you want to say to each other in a private conversation,in your cult center,on your Sunday tv scamathon,etc,etc,etc.
The Catacombs: A Place of hiding and Worship For the Early Church
#23. To: sneakypete, Liberator, hondo68, A K A Stone (#18)
You have the right to say anything you want to say to each other in a private conversation,in your cult center,on your Sunday tv scamathon,etc,etc,etc
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#24. To: Liberator (#20)
You mean you haven't noticed this ALREADY happening?
#25. To: sneakypete (#24)
#26. To: Liberator (#21)
You mean like the hysterical Liberals, Antifa, Homofascists, Mad-Pussyhatters and various other insane Church of Progressivism groups?
#27. To: A K A Stone (#25)
(Edited)
My beliefs Trump the bill of rights.
38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
#28. To: hondo68 (#22)
It seems like you want to drive Christians off of the streets and underground into the catacombs to watch Pope Francis Vatican Mass on TV?
#29. To: sneakypete (#26)
I guess maybe you think he had a right to harass me because he was "doing the Lords work and trying to save my soul",right.
#30. To: Deckard (#23)
Somehow I don't believe that was what the Founders had in mind when they wrote the First Amendment.
#31. To: sneakypete (#28)
Not true. I don't give a damn where they go,as long as they leave me alone and don't go shouting in my face and waving a Bible at me
#32. To: A K A Stone (#25)
(Edited)
The Bible trumps the bill of rights in spades.
#33. To: Fred Mertz (#29)
I guess maybe you think he had a right to harass me because he was "doing the Lords work and trying to save my soul",right.
#34. To: A K A Stone (#31)
If little faggoty snowflakes dont want their little girl feelings hurt they should stay indoors on their personal property.
#35. To: buckeroo (#27)
#36. To: sneakypete (#32)
#37. To: sneakypete (#34)
(Edited)
If little faggoty snowflakes dont want their little girl feelings hurt they should stay indoors on their personal property.
#38. To: sneakypete (#34)
So,when are you going to start?
#39. To: sneakypete (#32)
Good to see you come out of the closet and admit you are an anti-American that wants to establish a religious police state,though.
#40. To: sneakypete (#32)
Maybe you could get some Muslim clerics to give you some tips on how to run it?
#41. To: A K A Stone, yall (#25)
I'm a live and let live guy. I don't care what you want to believe,as long as you don't try to insist that I have to live according to your beliefs,or that your beliefs trumps the Bill of Rights. ----- sneakypete
#42. To: tpaine (#41)
AKA --- Do you really believe and insist that others should have to live according to your beliefs?
#43. To: A K A Stone (#36)
You sound like your finally out of the closet little peter.
#44. To: no gnu taxes (#37)
At least you have graduated to second grade retorts.
#45. To: A K A Stone (#38)
So if one of your queer relatives came up and said I'm married to a fag. Then I tell him to shut up and if he doesn't he is breaking the law?
#46. To: A K A Stone (#39)
Idiot the constitution's first amendment only recognized pre existing rights How can a pre existing right be trumped by a document who recognizes it?
#47. To: A K A Stone (#39)
Idiot the constitution's first amendment only recognized pre existing rights How can a pre existing right be trumped by a document who recognizes it?
#48. To: sneakypete, A K A Stone (#47)
Pre existing rights will vary from one place to another,depending on local history.
#49. To: hondo68 (#48)
Most Christians believe that these rights don't pre-exist God. He created them too.
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