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Title: Celebs to kids: America stinks! '55 rich white men drafted Constitution to protect their class – slaveholders'
Source: worldnetdaily
URL Source: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=119046
Published: Dec 15, 2009
Author: Drew Zahn
Post Date: 2009-12-15 08:24:43 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 62635
Comments: 180

Hollywood celebrities and education gurus have teamed together to distribute to schools across the country a dramatic new curriculum that casts American history as an epic march of victims seeking to shrug off the shackles of the warmongering, racist, capitalist, imperialist United States.

The History Channel's airing of the "The People Speak" last night marks the public coming-out party of a movement that has been in place since last year to teach America's school children a "social justice" brand of history that rails against war, oppression, capitalism and popular patriotism.

The television special featuring performances by Matt Damon, Benjamin Bratt, Marisa Tomei, Don Cheadle, Bruce Springsteen and others condemns the nation's past of oppression by the wealthy, powerful and imperialist and instead trumpets the voices of America's labor unions, minorities and protesters of various stripes.

The accompanying curriculum guide for schools that show "The People Speak" in classrooms, for example, highlights an 1852 reading from abolitionist Frederick Douglass:

What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer; a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy – a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.

The program and discussion guide is the most ambitious resource among many offered to America's schools by the Zinn Education Project, a collaboration of Rethinking Schools and Teaching for Change, as part of a push to encourage history instruction based on educator Howard Zinn's 1980 tome exposing the abuses of America's past, "A People's History of the United States."

The project states its goal is to "introduce students to a more accurate, complex and engaging understanding of United States history than is found in traditional textbooks and curricula. … Zinn's 'A People's History of the United States' emphasizes the role of working people, women, people of color and organized social movements in shaping history. Students learn that history is made not by a few heroic individuals, but instead by people's choices and actions, thereby also learning that their own choices and actions matter."

Tell Americans what they need to hear with WND's "No Hope in Socialism" magnetic bumper sticker

The History Channel, furthermore, touts "The People Speak" as a program that "gives voice to those who spoke up for social change throughout U.S. history, forging a nation from the bottom up with their insistence on equality and justice. … 'The People Speak' illustrates the relevance of these passionate historical moments to our society today and reminds us never to take liberty for granted."

The celebrities featured in "The People Speak" claim the stories of bold protesters and oppressed minorities and workers are "inspiring," while Zinn himself has stated that casting history as a people's movement toward change offers hope.

Critics of the Zinn Project, however, warn that the curriculum is more about pushing Zinn's admitted pacifist and socialist agenda on the next generation.

Michelle Malkin blasts "The People Speak" as an effort to promote "Marxist academic Howard Zinn's capitalism-bashing, America-dissing, grievance-mongering history textbook, 'A People's History of the United States.' … Zinn's work is a self-proclaimed 'biased account' of American history that rails against white oppressors, the free market and the military."

The first two pages of Zinn's book demonstrate why Malkin and other critics might judge "A People's History of the United States" as inherently socialist propaganda:

"These Arawaks of the Bahama Islands were much like the Indians on the mainland, who were remarkable … for their hospitality, their belief in sharing," Zinn writes. "These traits did not stand out in the Europe of the Renaissance, dominated as it was by the religion of popes, the government of kings, the frenzy for money that marked Western civilization and its first messenger to the Americas, Christopher Columbus."

"The information that Columbus wanted most was: Where is the gold?" Zinn writes, before pointing out of 1492 Spain, "Its population, mostly poor peasants, worked for the nobility, who were two percent of the population and owned 95 percent of the land."

The curriculum accompanying Zinn's book also contains questions and activities that recast American history in a victim vs. oppressor light:

"In one article included at the Zinn Education Project website, I describe how I introduce my classes to the problematic notion of Columbus' 'discovery of America,'" writes Bill Bigelow, curriculum editor of Rethinking Schools magazine and author of an article the project recommends reading to understand its goals, "A People's History, A People's Pedagogy."

"I steal a student's purse," Bigelow continues. "I do everything I can to get students to agree with me that 'Nomika's' purse is in fact my purse: I demonstrate that I control it; I take items out and claim them (Nomika has been alerted in advance, but other students don't know that), and I insist that it is my purse.

"When I lose this argument with the class, I offer to 'recast the act of purse acquisition,' and tell students that I didn't steal Nomika's purse, I discovered it. Now it's mine, right?" he explains.

He continues: "'So,' I ask them, 'if I didn't discover Nomika's purse, then why do some people say that Columbus discovered America? What are some other terms that we could use to describe his actions?' He stole America; he took it; he ripped it off; he invaded it.

"In a five- or ten-minute simulation," Bigelow concludes, "students can begin to see what Howard Zinn argues throughout his work: that how we frame the past invariably takes sides. And when we use terms like 'discovery' – or even the seemingly more neutral 'encounter' – our language sides with the ones who came out on top."

Zinn himself explains his approach, "I prefer to try to tell the story of the discovery of America from the viewpoint of the Arawaks, of the Constitution from the standpoint of the slaves, of Andrew Jackson as seen by the Cherokees, of the Civil War as seen by the New York Irish, of the Mexican War as seen by the deserting soldiers of Scott's army, of the rise of industrialism as seen by the young women in the Lowell textile mills, of the Spanish-American war as seen by the Cubans, the conquest of the Philippines as seen by the black soldiers on Luzon, the Gilded Age as seen by southern farmers, the First World War as seen by socialists, the Second World War as seen by pacifists, the New Deal as seen by blacks in Harlem, the postwar American empire as seen by peons in Latin America."

A new approach to patriotism

Howard Zinn

While critics have alleged Zinn's education plan tears down America and its famous founders, a lesson plan titled "Unsung Heroes" begins with "an essay by Zinn defending his philosophy of education.

Zinn writes, "A high school student recently confronted me: 'I read in your book "A People's History of the United States" about the massacres of Indians, the long history of racism, the persistence of poverty in the richest country in the world, the senseless wars. How can I keep from being thoroughly alienated and depressed?'

"It's a question I've heard many times before," Zinn writes. "Another question often put to me by students is: 'Don't we need our national idols? You are taking down all our national heroes – the Founding Fathers, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, John F. Kennedy.' Granted, it is good to have historical figures we can admire and emulate. But why hold up as models the 55 rich white men who drafted the Constitution as a way of establishing a government that would protect the interests of their class – slaveholders, merchants, bondholders, land speculators?"

Curriculum writer Bill Bigelow further explains of the popular perception of what it means to be patriotic, "There is a lot of 'us,' and 'we,' and 'our,' as if the texts are trying to dissolve race, class and gender realities into the melting pot of 'the nation.'"

But Bigelow rejects the idea of identifying America as one, solid union.

"A people's history and pedagogy ought to allow students to recognize that 'we' were not necessarily the ones stealing land, dropping bombs or breaking strikes," he concludes. "'We' were ending slavery, fighting for women's rights, organizing unions, marching against wars, and trying to create a society premised on the Golden Rule."

His point is crystallized in a lesson plan he created for the Zinn project about the Pledge of Allegiance called "One Country! One Language! One Flag!"

The plan points out that the lesson's title was actually a chant that followed the original Pledge – written in 1892 – as schoolchildren saluted with an extended arm, palm downward. The traditional gesture was replaced by a hand to the heart, the lesson points out, after Germany's Nazis began using the same salute to shout "Heil Hitler!" in the 1930s.

"It seems to me that teachers ought to know something about the history of the Pledge before we ask our students to repeat it," Bigelow writes. "How has it been used, and by whom? Why not lead kids in the original Pledge to the Flag, including the 'One Language!' chant and the Nazi-like salute, and then lead a discussion about the politics of the Pledge."

The curriculum itself instructs students: "Read over the original words of the Pledge. In 1892, who did and did not have liberty and justice in the United States? (In the 1880s in the South, over 100 African Americans were lynched yearly; segregation was the norm and would soon be ratified by the U.S. Supreme Court in Plessy v. Ferguson. Women could not vote. In the previous 50 years, Mexicans had been stripped of land and property in what had been their country. Discrimination and violence against Chinese immigrants had grown increasingly severe. In the summer of 1892, 8,000 Pennsylvania National Guardsmen had helped Henry Clay Frick break the union at the Carnegie Steel Co. in Homestead, Pa.) How about in the 1920s, when the Pledge was introduced more widely into the schools?"

The spread of the Zinn Educational Project

According to a Zinn Educational Project report, in April 2008, with support from an anonymous donor, ZEP partnered with 32 organizations to offer 31,000 teachers and teacher educators free packets for instilling the "people's history" in schools across the country. The ZEP reports it quickly received requests for its available 4,000 free packets, nearly half of which were sent to schools in California, New York and Illinois.

A graphic illustrating where ZEP sent the packets is below: The first two pages of Zinn's book demonstrate why Malkin and other critics might judge "A People's History of the United States" as inherently socialist propaganda:

"These Arawaks of the Bahama Islands were much like the Indians on the mainland, who were remarkable … for their hospitality, their belief in sharing," Zinn writes. "These traits did not stand out in the Europe of the Renaissance, dominated as it was by the religion of popes, the government of kings, the frenzy for money that marked Western civilization and its first messenger to the Americas, Christopher Columbus."

"The information that Columbus wanted most was: Where is the gold?" Zinn writes, before pointing out of 1492 Spain, "Its population, mostly poor peasants, worked for the nobility, who were two percent of the population and owned 95 percent of the land."

The curriculum accompanying Zinn's book also contains questions and activities that recast American history in a victim vs. oppressor light:

"In one article included at the Zinn Education Project website, I describe how I introduce my classes to the problematic notion of Columbus' 'discovery of America,'" writes Bill Bigelow, curriculum editor of Rethinking Schools magazine and author of an article the project recommends reading to understand its goals, "A People's History, A People's Pedagogy."

"I steal a student's purse," Bigelow continues. "I do everything I can to get students to agree with me that 'Nomika's' purse is in fact my purse: I demonstrate that I control it; I take items out and claim them (Nomika has been alerted in advance, but other students don't know that), and I insist that it is my purse.

"When I lose this argument with the class, I offer to 'recast the act of purse acquisition,' and tell students that I didn't steal Nomika's purse, I discovered it. Now it's mine, right?" he explains.

He continues: "'So,' I ask them, 'if I didn't discover Nomika's purse, then why do some people say that Columbus discovered America? What are some other terms that we could use to describe his actions?' He stole America; he took it; he ripped it off; he invaded it.

"In a five- or ten-minute simulation," Bigelow concludes, "students can begin to see what Howard Zinn argues throughout his work: that how we frame the past invariably takes sides. And when we use terms like 'discovery' – or even the seemingly more neutral 'encounter' – our language sides with the ones who came out on top."

Zinn himself explains his approach, "I prefer to try to tell the story of the discovery of America from the viewpoint of the Arawaks, of the Constitution from the standpoint of the slaves, of Andrew Jackson as seen by the Cherokees, of the Civil War as seen by the New York Irish, of the Mexican War as seen by the deserting soldiers of Scott's army, of the rise of industrialism as seen by the young women in the Lowell textile mills, of the Spanish-American war as seen by the Cubans, the conquest of the Philippines as seen by the black soldiers on Luzon, the Gilded Age as seen by southern farmers, the First World War as seen by socialists, the Second World War as seen by pacifists, the New Deal as seen by blacks in Harlem, the postwar American empire as seen by peons in Latin America."

A new approach to patriotism

While critics have alleged Zinn's education plan tears down America and its famous founders, a lesson plan titled "Unsung Heroes" begins with "an essay by Zinn defending his philosophy of education.

Zinn writes, "A high school student recently confronted me: 'I read in your book "A People's History of the United States" about the massacres of Indians, the long history of racism, the persistence of poverty in the richest country in the world, the senseless wars. How can I keep from being thoroughly alienated and depressed?'

"It's a question I've heard many times before," Zinn writes. "Another question often put to me by students is: 'Don't we need our national idols? You are taking down all our national heroes – the Founding Fathers, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, John F. Kennedy.' Granted, it is good to have historical figures we can admire and emulate. But why hold up as models the 55 rich white men who drafted the Constitution as a way of establishing a government that would protect the interests of their class – slaveholders, merchants, bondholders, land speculators?"

Curriculum writer Bill Bigelow further explains of the popular perception of what it means to be patriotic, "There is a lot of 'us,' and 'we,' and 'our,' as if the texts are trying to dissolve race, class and gender realities into the melting pot of 'the nation.'"

But Bigelow rejects the idea of identifying America as one, solid union.

"A people's history and pedagogy ought to allow students to recognize that 'we' were not necessarily the ones stealing land, dropping bombs or breaking strikes," he concludes. "'We' were ending slavery, fighting for women's rights, organizing unions, marching against wars, and trying to create a society premised on the Golden Rule."

His point is crystallized in a lesson plan he created for the Zinn project about the Pledge of Allegiance called "One Country! One Language! One Flag!"

The plan points out that the lesson's title was actually a chant that followed the original Pledge – written in 1892 – as schoolchildren saluted with an extended arm, palm downward. The traditional gesture was replaced by a hand to the heart, the lesson points out, after Germany's Nazis began using the same salute to shout "Heil Hitler!" in the 1930s.

"It seems to me that teachers ought to know something about the history of the Pledge before we ask our students to repeat it," Bigelow writes. "How has it been used, and by whom? Why not lead kids in the original Pledge to the Flag, including the 'One Language!' chant and the Nazi-like salute, and then lead a discussion about the politics of the Pledge."

The curriculum itself instructs students: "Read over the original words of the Pledge. In 1892, who did and did not have liberty and justice in the United States? (In the 1880s in the South, over 100 African Americans were lynched yearly; segregation was the norm and would soon be ratified by the U.S. Supreme Court in Plessy v. Ferguson. Women could not vote. In the previous 50 years, Mexicans had been stripped of land and property in what had been their country. Discrimination and violence against Chinese immigrants had grown increasingly severe. In the summer of 1892, 8,000 Pennsylvania National Guardsmen had helped Henry Clay Frick break the union at the Carnegie Steel Co. in Homestead, Pa.) How about in the 1920s, when the Pledge was introduced more widely into the schools?"

The spread of the Zinn Educational Project

According to a Zinn Educational Project report, in April 2008, with support from an anonymous donor, ZEP partnered with 32 organizations to offer 31,000 teachers and teacher educators free packets for instilling the "people's history" in schools across the country. The ZEP reports it quickly received requests for its available 4,000 free packets, nearly half of which were sent to schools in California, New York and Illinois.

A graphic illustrating where ZEP sent the packets is below:

The ZEP website boasts many of the teachers have begun implementing the curriculum and has published the following testimonials:

"These resources are an asset," reportedly responded Meaghan Martin, an elementary school teacher in Manassas, Va. "We are always looking for ways to offer students a critical perspective. The unsung heroes unit is outstanding! I have tailored it to meet the needs of my 2nd graders when we study American biographies."

Lara Emerling, a middle school teacher in Baltimore, Md., reportedly replied, "Knowing that resources like the Zinn Education Project exist make me feel so hopeful about the network of people who are engaged in this kind of dialogue with their students. I am a young, white female living in Baltimore and teaching at an all black middle school. These resources are so valuable to me personally and to the relationships being built between the students and the faculty. Thank you to everyone involved in keeping this collaboration evolving!"

Zinn himself has testified of his hope that the project will continue to spread.

"We're dreamers," writes Zinn. "We want it all. We want a peaceful world. We want an egalitarian world. We don't want war. We don't want capitalism. We want a decent society."


Poster Comment:

Here is a picture of the asshole Harold Zinn. (2 images)

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#140. To: Murron (#137)

You're probably on her bozo filter now. And you are correct. It's always better to take steps to prevent a situation than to let it happen. I tell my kids that all the time.


Click if you want the truth
Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-16   16:23:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: mel (#140)

You're probably on her bozo filter now.

kewl...now I think I'm going to chill awhile...

Murron  posted on  2009-12-16   16:31:27 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: Murron (#141)

Love the pic!


Click if you want the truth. Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-16   16:32:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: Murron (#141)

This is a cute kitty. She's a Munchkin. Her legs are so short her belly rubs on the ground.


Click if you want the truth. Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-16   16:42:32 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: Murron (#132)

Umm Murron- i left 4um for a number of reason. When i posted i was leaving- i was invited here. There was no concern about who i am , or my posting style by the person who invited me here. I was invited here by someone who is trying to grow this site- and I suspect that he wants to grow it into something more than the same food fight by the same posters- over and over.

Just for your own notes- those posters are dead to me. ok? I won't be posting to them.

If you notice, i have not directed one comment to either of those posters and this will be the last time I direct anything to you. I don't really know who you are or why you follow me around, or what your schick is.. but have fun. I have nothing to say to you.

Now- if you have other concerns about why I am here, perhaps you should take it up with the site owner, instead of all of the drama queen stuff.

Really- can you grown up a little? I, personally think is childish and rude to the person who is trying to grow a site.

diva betsy ross  posted on  2009-12-16   16:46:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: Palo Verde (#110)

Palo,go to the post office web site at www.usps.com and click on the get a shipping estimate link.

Anything you can fit into one of the 3 different sized Priority Mail boxes the USPS will furnish you for free will be delivered anywhere in the country within 3 days at a flat rate of less than 15 bucks. The only restrictions are it must fit into one of their flat rate boxes and weigh less than 70 lbs per box.

You can use your own box if the flat rate boxes they give you are too small and still mail the stuff out using Priority Mail,but the price will be higher. It will still get there within 3 days,though.

You can even order the free flat rate boxes on line and have them delivered to your house by your regular mailman,and you can print out the shipping label and pay for the shipping on line,too. Not to mention notify your local post office that you have a package for them to pick up the next day.

sneakypete  posted on  2009-12-16   17:43:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: war (#126)

Mrs. WAR grabbed the one in the yellow cellophane and said, "Mmmm...buttah scotch" [she's from Staten Island]...I have never since seen my son laugh so hard...he must have gone through every word in the English language with Potential Mrs. WAR to hear how she said it...

I used to get the strangest looks when I tried to get Russian women to say "squirrel" for me.

It's a Rocky and Bullwinkle thing from my childhood.

sneakypete  posted on  2009-12-16   17:49:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: Biff Tannen (#136)

LOL!

Oh biffy boy you cut me to the quick DUDE. /S

LOL!

millie vanillie keep it real

Photobucket

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-16   18:36:02 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: sneakypete (#28)

LOL. Strange that you mention irony,but seem to be blind to it.

The dumb shill never has taken the time to read even an online dictionary to see the definition for irony.

He uses that word about as often as and huh??

A sampling of some of his "bigger" words he is "so proud" of.

his repeated obama sycophantic bleatings are beginning to rival those of the vapid 2 legged vertical obama campaign yardsign fka GO65.

Death to everybody who does not get outta my way.

e_type_jag  posted on  2009-12-16   18:46:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: sneakypete (#145)

Hi Pete
Thank you
I followed your instructions to a T
everything worked out perfectly
You are the best
Love, Palo

Palo Verde  posted on  2009-12-16   19:10:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: Mad Dog (#133)

GO suck a yuktard Puppy Chow...

No Stems No Seeds That You Don't Need...

war  posted on  2009-12-16   19:59:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: e_type_jag (#148)

his repeated obama sycophantic bleatings are beginning to rival those of the vapid 2 legged vertical obama campaign yardsign fka GO65.

Yup,and despite all their bleatings,all they can do is try and spin and distort in order to change the focus of what you write. They can't list his bleeping accomplishments and qualifications because he doesn't HAVE any.

He might as well be a Bush.

Which is why I sometimes refer to him as Bush 4.0

sneakypete  posted on  2009-12-16   20:36:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: Palo Verde (#149)

I followed your instructions to a T everything worked out perfectly

Ahhh,but the odds of chance say you are bound to get lucky occasionally.

sneakypete  posted on  2009-12-16   20:37:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: A K A Stone (#0) (Edited)

An industry that is based on nepotism lectures others to open up.

The only good liberal is one in heaven.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Toss: ADL,CAIR and the Vatican into the pit they belong in.

WhiteSands  posted on  2009-12-16   20:47:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: WhiteSands (#153)

The only good liberal is one in heaven.

By definition a liberal is someone who cannot enter heaven. You have to believe in God first.

A K A Stone  posted on  2009-12-16   20:50:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: A K A Stone (#154)

LOL

True that!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Toss: ADL,CAIR and the Vatican into the pit they belong in.

WhiteSands  posted on  2009-12-16   20:59:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: vile beyond mere words TRASH aka war (#150)

Photobucket

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-16   21:06:24 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: diva betsy ross, Murron (#144) (Edited)

Just for your own notes- those posters are dead to me. ok? I won't be posting to them.

GREAT!

If you are really here to be amongst your friends and enjoy yourself - Welcome to Liberty's Flame and have a great time!


Click if you want the truth. Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-16   21:42:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: war (#128)

Guniea Gangplank aka the Verrazano Bridge.

Funny sh*t. Never heard it put quite like that.

If there is any place in NY which pronounces it "Joisey" then it would be either Bay Ridge or Bensonhurst.

You're right; "Joisey" is a mostly Brooklynese kinda thing, a la Mel Blanc, aka Bugs Bunny.

More fun to blame "Joisey" on Jerseyans themselves.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-16   21:42:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: mel (#157)

Can't you just let this go???

Geeeez......

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-16   21:43:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: e_type_jag (#148)

his repeated obama sycophantic bleatings are beginning to rival those of the vapid 2 legged vertical obama campaign yardsign fka GO65.

ROFL

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-16   21:45:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: Liberator (#159) (Edited)

Here - I'll make it better for you...

In the spirit of Christmas and all...


Click if you want the truth. Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-16   21:46:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: mel (#157) (Edited)

Now - If you are really here to be amongst your friends and enjoy yourself - Welcome to Liberty's Flame and have a great time!

A leopard can't hide her spots.

Mel, the woman has said not a word to you.

Why must you continue to instigate and fan the flames of enmity?

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-16   21:49:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: mel (#161)

Here - I'll make it better for you...

In the spirit of Christmas and all...

Will I see Santa in the clouds?

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-16   21:52:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: Liberator (#163)

Did you know Santa is real? Not the Santa that's commercialized with the red suit and stuff. That's a childrens story, but Santa is really real.


Click if you want the truth. Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-16   21:56:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: mel (#164)

Did you know Santa is real?

It's disappointing to find out his "gift" wasn't.

Oh well - live and learn.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-16   22:11:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: Liberator (#165)

He came through the neighborhood when I was 7 and brought me a Holy Hobby doll. That was real. What did he bring you that was fake?


Click if you want the truth. Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-16   22:22:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: sneakypete (#151)

he doesn't HAVE any.

He'll be on other threads still touting the nothingness.

I'm a bit surprised our resident GO65 wannabe didn't go with the laughingstock Nobel nonsense:)

Death to everybody who does not get outta my way.

e_type_jag  posted on  2009-12-16   23:02:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: Liberator (#162)

Lib- as you know this little drama has gone on for quite a long time- It started when I was a poster at Clown Posse. You know that I was at FR for many years- and I was banned from FR and showed up at LP..My first post there was to You- and that was before I was at CP- then I went to CP..

I have posted at all of the FR off shoots, as diva betsy ross - because that is where the posters I know go ,and that is the name people know me as. I have never lied about one thing I have posted about- so there you go. :) Not one thing.

I will say this and then leave it. Nothing that person says about me is true and she plays lots of games.

I am perfectly fine to leave her on bozo and let her say whatever she wants to say. God knows who i am, and I know who i am. I am good with that.

I know the disruptions from the thread topic, to yet another personal attack - can be annoying- but that is what some people use the net for- to attack people.

It is what it is.

Save your energy, friend, for a battle you can win. HOW so ever~ I will do my part- and ignore her. ok?

You got it. And Merry Christmas from me and Santa.

diva betsy ross  posted on  2009-12-16   23:51:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: A K A Stone (#154)

By definition a liberal is someone who cannot enter heaven. You have to believe in God first.

My belief is different from yours
I believe God created Heaven as our natural home
that we lived there before we came into the world, and return there when we leave it
that we all came from Heaven, and all of us return there
Love, Palo

Palo Verde  posted on  2009-12-16   23:58:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: mel (#164)

Did you know Santa is real? Not the Santa that's commercialized with the red suit and stuff. That's a children's story, but Santa is really real.

I am curious Mel, what do you mean by Santa is real?
Who is Santa?
Love, Palo

Palo Verde  posted on  2009-12-17   0:03:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: sneakypete (#34)

You can see that?

...new glasses.

Sarajevo  posted on  2009-12-17   6:21:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: e_type_jag (#167)

He'll be on other threads still touting the nothingness.

Of course. That's what he does. It's his reason to exist on the internet.

All the while pretending to be a unbiased and non-partisan independent.

sneakypete  posted on  2009-12-17   8:58:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: Sarajevo (#171)

...new glasses.

DAMN! And here I was thinking I could save money to buy a hearing aid! Now I find out I need need glasses again.

If I can ever manage to get my hands on that SOB Father Time,he's going to be in a world of hurt. Payback is going to be epic.

sneakypete  posted on  2009-12-17   9:04:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: Palo Verde (#170)

I am curious Mel, what do you mean by Santa is real?

Hi Palo,

I'm sure you have heard the story of Nicholas, who later became known as Saint Nicholas? That is where the modern day Santa Claus stories derived from. Just in case you haven't, I will post it here for you. It's a wonderful story. Read it when you have time and I hope you enjoy it!

Who is St. Nicholas?

The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in the village of Patara. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey. His wealthy parents, who raised him to be a devout Christian, died in an epidemic while Nicholas was still young. Obeying Jesus' words to "sell what you own and give the money to the poor," Nicholas used his whole inheritance to assist the needy, the sick, and the suffering. He dedicated his life to serving God and was made Bishop of Myra while still a young man. Bishop Nicholas became known throughout the land for his generosity to the those in need, his love for children, and his concern for sailors and ships.

Under the Roman Emperor Diocletian, who ruthlessly persecuted Christians, Bishop Nicholas suffered for his faith, was exiled and imprisoned. The prisons were so full of bishops, priests, and deacons, there was no room for the real criminals52;murderers, thieves and robbers. After his release, Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. He died December 6, AD 343 in Myra and was buried in his cathedral church, where a unique relic, called manna, formed in his grave. This liquid substance, said to have healing powers, fostered the growth of devotion to Nicholas. The anniversary of his death became a day of celebration, St. Nicholas Day, December 6th (December 19 on the Julian Calendar).

Through the centuries many stories and legends have been told of St. Nicholas' life and deeds. These accounts help us understand his extraordinary character and why he is so beloved and revered as protector and helper of those in need.

One story tells of a poor man with three daughters. In those days a young woman's father had to offer prospective husbands something of value52;a dowry. The larger the dowry, the better the chance that a young woman would find a good husband. Without a dowry, a woman was unlikely to marry. This poor man's daughters, without dowries, were therefore destined to be sold into slavery. Mysteriously, on three different occasions, a bag of gold appeared in their home-providing the needed dowries. The bags of gold, tossed through an open window, are said to have landed in stockings or shoes left before the fire to dry. This led to the custom of children hanging stockings or putting out shoes, eagerly awaiting gifts from Saint Nicholas. Sometimes the story is told with gold balls instead of bags of gold. That is why three gold balls, sometimes represented as oranges, are one of the symbols for St. Nicholas. And so St. Nicholas is a gift-giver.

One of the oldest stories showing St. Nicholas as a protector of children takes place long after his death. The townspeople of Myra were celebrating the good saint on the eve of his feast day when a band of Arab pirates from Crete came into the district. They stole treasures from the Church of Saint Nicholas to take away as booty. As they were leaving town, they snatched a young boy, Basilios, to make into a slave. The emir, or ruler, selected Basilios to be his personal cupbearer, as not knowing the language, Basilios would not understand what the king said to those around him. So, for the next year Basilios waited on the king, bringing his wine in a beautiful golden cup. For Basilios' parents, devastated at the loss of their only child, the year passed slowly, filled with grief. As the next St. Nicholas' feast day approached, Basilios' mother would not join in the festivity, as it was now a day of tragedy. However, she was persuaded to have a simple observance at home52;with quiet prayers for Basilios' safekeeping. Meanwhile, as Basilios was fulfilling his tasks serving the emir, he was suddenly whisked up and away. St. Nicholas appeared to the terrified boy, blessed him, and set him down at his home back in Myra. Imagine the joy and wonderment when Basilios amazingly appeared before his parents, still holding the king's golden cup. This is the first story told of St. Nicholas protecting children52;which became his primary role in the West.

Another story tells of three theological students, traveling on their way to study in Athens. A wicked innkeeper robbed and murdered them, hiding their remains in a large pickling tub. It so happened that Bishop Nicholas, traveling along the same route, stopped at this very inn. In the night he dreamed of the crime, got up, and summoned the innkeeper. As Nicholas prayed earnestly to God the three boys were restored to life and wholeness. In France the story is told of three small children, wandering in their play until lost, lured, and captured by an evil butcher. St. Nicholas appears and appeals to God to return them to life and to their families. And so St. Nicholas is the patron and protector of children.

Several stories tell of Nicholas and the sea. When he was young, Nicholas sought the holy by making a pilgrimage to the Holy Land. There as he walked where Jesus walked, he sought to more deeply experience Jesus' life, passion, and resurrection. Returning by sea, a mighty storm threatened to wreck the ship. Nicholas calmly prayed. The terrified sailors were amazed when the wind and waves suddenly calmed, sparing them all. And so St. Nicholas is the patron of sailors and voyagers.

Other stories tell of Nicholas saving his people from famine, sparing the lives of those innocently accused, and much more. He did many kind and generous deeds in secret, expecting nothing in return. Within a century of his death he was celebrated as a saint. Today he is venerated in the East as wonder, or miracle worker and in the West as patron of a great variety of persons-children, mariners, bankers, pawn-brokers, scholars, orphans, laborers, travelers, merchants, judges, paupers, marriageable maidens, students, children, sailors, victims of judicial mistakes, captives, perfumers, even thieves and murderers! He is known as the friend and protector of all in trouble or need.

Sailors, claiming St. Nicholas as patron, carried stories of his favor and protection far and wide. St. Nicholas chapels were built in many seaports. As his popularity spread during the Middle Ages, he became the patron saint of Apulia (Italy), Sicily, Greece, and Lorraine (France), and many cities in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Russia, Belgium, and the Netherlands (See list). Following his baptism in Constantinople, Vladimir I of Russia brought St. Nicholas' stories and devotion to St. Nicholas to his homeland where Nicholas became the most beloved saint. Nicholas was so widely revered that more than 2,000 churches were named for him, including three hundred in Belgium, thirty-four in Rome, twenty-three in the Netherlands and more than four hundred in England.

Nicholas' tomb in Myra became a popular place of pilgrimage. Because of the many wars and attacks in the region, some Christians were concerned that access to the tomb might become difficult. For both the religious and commercial advantages of a major pilgrimage site, the Italian cities of Venice and Bari vied to get the Nicholas relics. In the spring of 1087, sailors from Bari succeeded in spiriting away the bones, bringing them to Bari, a seaport on the southeast coast of Italy. An impressive church was built over St. Nicholas' crypt and many faithful journeyed to honor the saint who had rescued children, prisoners, sailors, famine victims, and many others through his compassion, generosity, and the countless miracles attributed to his intercession. The Nicholas shrine in Bari was one of medieval Europe's great pilgrimage centers and Nicholas became known as "Saint in Bari." To this day pilgrims and tourists visit Bari's great Basilica di San Nicola.

Through the centuries St. Nicholas has continued to be venerated by Catholics and Orthodox and honored by Protestants. By his example of generosity to those in need, especially children, St. Nicholas continues to be a model for the compassionate life.

Widely celebrated in Europe, St. Nicholas' feast day, December 6th, kept alive the stories of his goodness and generosity. In Germany and Poland, boys dressed as bishops begged alms for the poor52;and sometimes for themselves! In the Netherlands and Belgium, St. Nicholas arrived on a steamship from Spain to ride a white horse on his gift-giving rounds. December 6th is still the main day for gift giving and merrymaking in much of Europe. For example, in the Netherlands St. Nicholas is celebrated on the 5th, the eve of the day, by sharing candies (thrown in the door), chocolate initial letters, small gifts, and riddles. Dutch children leave carrots and hay in their shoes for the saint's horse, hoping St. Nicholas will exchange them for small gifts. Simple gift-giving in early Advent helps preserve a Christmas Day focus on the Christ Child.


Click if you want the truth. Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-17   10:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: diva betsy ross (#168)

Oh shut up...

I welcomed you to the forum.


Click if you want the truth. Click here for an important video message

mel  posted on  2009-12-17   10:30:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: Mad Dog (#156)

Good now that you have a copy the next step is for you to follows its directions...

[snicker]

No Stems No Seeds That You Don't Need...

war  posted on  2009-12-17   10:33:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: war (#176)

Photobucket

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-17   14:28:42 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: Mad Dog (#177)

Would you like to buy a vowel?

No Vana...I'll solve the puzzle...

GO FUCK YOURSELF...

[snicker]

Next thing to backfire on you will be what?

No Stems No Seeds That You Don't Need...

war  posted on  2009-12-18   13:32:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: vile beyond mere words TRASH aka war (#178)

Photobucket

Photobucket

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-18   14:58:33 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: Mad Dog (#179)

War ...

the machine ---

pantload !

BorisY  posted on  2009-12-18   15:30:27 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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