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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions This Speech Just Broke the Internet Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Mexican Invasion See other Mexican Invasion Articles Title: Europe Is Killing Itself Source: YouTube URL Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydPZRoLzu-E Published: Sep 7, 2017 Author: Pat Condell Post Date: 2017-09-08 08:06:55 by Tooconservative Keywords: None Views: 16327 Comments: 63 Suicide by virtue signalling. Everyone is free to download this video and post it to their own account if they wish, as long as it is not edited in any way (including the title) and not monetized. Merkel has no regrets on open door policy http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wor... Merkel regrets open door policy. “I wish I could turn back time.” http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/7... Germany: MIgrant sex crimes double in one year. https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10... 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To: Tooconservative (#0) What do progressives do when a program they devise doesn't work at all. Double down and claim its racist who are the problem!! Its work so far so way stop it? Justified  posted on  2017-09-08   9:20:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: Justified (#1) What do progressives do when a program they devise doesn't work at all. Double down and claim its racist who are the problem!! Its work so far so way stop it? They won't stop it. Everybody else has to team up to stop them. So, why don't we team up? The answer is that, besides progressives, "everybody else" is divided into groups that, among them, are groups every bit as offensive as the progressives, or moreso. On the right, for example, libertarian free-marketeers detest pro-lifers as much even more than they do progressives. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-08   9:36:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: Vicomte13 (#2) On the right, for example, libertarian free-marketeers detest pro-lifers as much even more than they do progressives. I wouldn't agree to that. The honchos of the Libertarian Party have always been pro-choicers. They had a big setback when Ron Paul was their 1988 pro-life nominee, a legacy that continues to cause them problems. Among the small-L libertarians, my experience indicates that a strong majority of them are pro-lifers. Don't assume there is any majority of pro-lifers among the libertarians overall, even if LP leadership remains pro-abortion (but fairly quiet about it). Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-08   9:46:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: Tooconservative (#3) Maybe it wasn't a great example. Look at this site. Start lining up the issues and putting people in various boxes, issue by issue. Now think how impossible it would be for us to all cooperate with each other against a common enemy, because we talk of each other as the enemy, even though we probably agree on 75% of everything. What I meant was that we need only look to ourselves to see why a visible enemy like the Democrats advances against us. Many of us simply hate each other. How can anything be built on that? Can't be. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-08   10:06:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: Vicomte13 (#4) Now think how impossible it would be for us to all cooperate with each other against a common enemy, because we talk of each other as the enemy, even though we probably agree on 75% of everything. One might almost suspect there are agentes provocateurs but I think that conservatives tend to be more opinionated and sunk into their various FNC and talk radio bubbles. And you have a good smattering of the Jonesy people who follow Alex Jones and even Michael Savage. And no elected pols who really speak well to all those groups, including Trump (despite trying to, even appearing as a guest on Jones' show). OTOH, we don't have a complicit mass media or control of academia or social networks. So we are being swamped by the big battalions of the Left in the war for public opinion. Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-08   10:13:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: Tooconservative (#5) It's not even that. Look, here's the way it is: the American Right cannot hold permanent institutional power the way the American Left has until it reconciles itself to Catholics. We are not going to stand in ranks with people with whom we agree politically on important things when you call us Satanists and evil and other jejeune, ignorant crap when we talk to you in private. You don't find us going on crusade against your religions. We did once. In Europe. 500 years ago. At the same time that your brutal and satanic ancestors were burning people at the stake as witches. There was evil on all sides. That was then. This is now. You are not them, and we are not them. We are us now, Americans. We believe our religion is true, every bit as much as you do. And we are the pivot population - the ones that gave FDR his New Deal, and America its social welfare structure. We need to have a talk about social welfare, because that's where our religious differences bite down the hardest politically. We tend to love the military, the idea of the rule of law, support law enforcement in general, and support individual rights. We're as pro-life as you are. But we're never going to break bread with people who are still in the third grade pitching taunts about our being evil. We're not evil, but you are when you talk like that (not YOU - "ye"). You have to discipline yourself to stop that. That is the PRICE of having the Catholics as the pivot back towards you. You cannot get the Jews - though you profess your love for them - not ever. But you CAN have us for the same reason that FDR did: we believe in social welfare and a functional state. But we are not blacks. We will not sit at the table and pretend we're cool with racists who hate us. You spew your hatred, we hear it, and we walk away. Our common interests are not important enough, because we are actually Catholics - we know that life is short, we die and go someplace better, so we're not going to compromise on anything important, ever. We'll just wait to the afterlife. We are not persuadable, and we are not changeable. But we WILL work with allies towards a common goal. Catholic France gave America its birth in the first place, did we not? (Yes we did.) So, understand that for US, social welfare is not political, it is theological. We cannot abandon it because some asshole named Rand or Hayek or Friedman decided that it is unnecessary. Those people are midgets compared to Jesus of Nazareth, who commands it. We are operating on commandments of God, and we're never going to compromise. You are ALREADY COMPROMISED. You COLLECT Medicare and Social Security, and Medicaid and Disability and Unemployment when you need it. So all of this mewling and puking against the social welfare state, which is your hallmark, is hypocritical and stupid. And you make yourselves disgusting to us by spewing hate at us. Stop spewing the hate. Admit that you NEED the social welfare (because you do), and then sit at the table with us to discuss and work out REASONABLE finances, REASONABLE levels of health care and military spending. Agree on the economic commandments, and all of a sudden you have a majority for not expanding gay marriage and for ratcheting back abortion, for maintaining a robust military and the rule of law. All of a sudden you have what you want. But you'd rather piss all of that away so that you can maintain a stupid hatred of Catholicism that is based on nothing that has happened within the past three hundred years. It is so very dumb. We're not moving. You could. If you do, then you have what you want. If you don't, we sit unmovable and grow through immigration and birth rates, the social welfare state is maintained, and the military, but the society goes to worms. You want to win? Then stop being stupid and stop hating your natural allies. You USED TO hate the Jews with the same vehemence, but you STOPPED. Which means that you CAN decide to stop hating a religious group you don't agree with, if you WANT to. You don't want to. Apparently you like losing. See, we Catholics mostly have what we want. We just want to stop the moral decay. You guys have nothing you want. Everything is falling to ruin. You are too few in numbers, and you're losing all the battles. You're like the South in 1863: you need more men. We are like France, sitting there over the horizon - ABLE to intervene (as we did in 1778) and ABLE to turn the tide. But we're not going to do that unless you reach out your hand. So humble yourselves and turn off the anti-Catholic hatred, and reach out your hand. We will take it. It isn't funny to us. We don't see it as a game. Jack Chick makes me laugh, but that's the way you people ACTUALLY TALK TO ME on this board, because I am a Catholic. Are you REALLY all that ignorant? Honest to God, you seem to be. Well, if you don't want to go the route of the Confederacy, lose the war, and then eventually even have your monuments taken down so that you died in vain for an evil cause, went to hell, and are forgotten here also...memory blotted out. You're well on your way. You don't have to lose. But like George Washington and the founders knew; YOU CANNOT WIN WITHOUT CATHOLIC FRANCE. And you can't. The Confederates didn't have Catholic France or Anglican Britain, because their populations would not let them commit to fighting for slavery. Catholic America would ally with you, if you were not such nasty fucks to us ALL THE TIME. So decide to save yourselves and grow up and knock that shit off for good. It doesn't strengthen YOUR side, and it drives away the only possible allies that could give you the win. Stop insulting us, and understand that we are never going to let you end social welfare, not ever. Accept those two things as GIVENS, and then look at what you can build on a stable political alliance. There is hope, in that path. There is none on your swirling path into darkness. Pickett - don't make the charge. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-08   12:41:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: Vicomte13 (#6) You don't have to lose. But like George Washington and the founders knew; YOU CANNOT WIN WITHOUT CATHOLIC FRANCE. And you can't. The Confederates didn't have Catholic France or Anglican Britain, because their populations would not let them commit to fighting for slavery. Perhaps that you should consider that Catholics can't win on pro-life and pro-family issues either without the Prot voters. It cuts both ways. Catholic and Prot camps make common cause on abortion and family policy pretty broadly and without much fanfare. I always considered this to be understood. And I recall years back you predicting that the great wave of Hispanic immigration would dramatically shift America toward Catholicism because the immigrants were strongly pro-life Catholic. But we don't see that. Instead we see Latin America and South America pivoting to emulate our policies on abortion and same-sex marriage. I think you're mistaken about the fundamental voting habits of a majority of Catholic voters in northeastern Blue states and CA in particular. Where are these pro-life pro-Catholic Dems getting elected to the House, let alone the Senate? And yet these senators from the northeast Blue states do represent a large voting bloc in each of these states. So I don't see where either immigrant Catholics or the states with the highest concentrations of Catholic voters are making any real headway in electing authentic Catholics to office. Instead, you get the Pelosis and other very liberal unCatholic Catholics elected overwhelmingly. But no pro-life Catholics or any that speak out much on same-sex marriage are in office. You might argue that Bob Casey campaigns to the ghost of his father's brand of pro-life politics as a Dem. But even that is a very faint gesture and surely an outlier among prominent Dem politicians. Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-08   13:01:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: Tooconservative (#7) Yeah, well, it looks like American culture is stronger than Christianity across the board. In the past ten years, religion has faded in general - Catholic, Protestant - you name it. The "don't believe" category has grown dramatically, while the "nominal believer" (no church) category has grown greatly. So looks as though I was wrong about Hispanics. Looks as though Christianity is simply going to die out in America as it has in Europe, and become a little asterisk at the bottom of the page. People will be "Christian" like the French are Catholic. Kids still usually get baptized. There's a marriage at some point, maybe. And then a funeral. Essentially the church becomes a baptism hall, a marriage hall and a funeral parlor. The seculars look set to win. Most of them are not all that hard to live with. So I guess that's it then. Christianity never reconciled. It just shriveled. We could discuss why, but why bother? Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-08   14:20:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: Vicomte13, Tooconservative (#8) In the past ten years, religion has faded in general - Catholic, Protestant - you name it. I believe LDS (Mormon) has grown very slowly, but grown. I reckon Islam is a big exception. Evangelical denominations have grown. Mainstream Catholic and Protestant religion isn't doing so good. nolu chan  posted on  2017-09-09   4:12:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: nolu chan (#10) (Edited) Nope. Evangelical Christianity is also in decline among whites. There has been a small rise in it among Hispanics, but a much larger rise in religiously unaffiliated among Blacks, Whites AND Latinos. Organized religion itself is dying out in the US. That doesn't mean that belief in God is going away. But people in increasing numbers no longer desire to express that belief in God through organized churches. That means that the political clout of the organized churches is declining steadily and substantially. It's frankly not hard to see why. Organized Christianity addresses side issues and esoteric things, but does not address, front and center, the primary issues that drive human beings: and those are ECONOMIC. There has long been an argument from the conservative right in America that the government should get out of the business of social welfare, that the government has no business providing social security, medical care, poverty relief - that this is the role of private charity and the churches. The problem, of course, is that the churches never filled that role well, and are not trying to. Instead, the churches focused on maintaining political control through the justification of segregation and racism in the South, alcohol prohibition nationwide, and every aspect of sexuality, from contraception through abortion and homosexuality nationwide. One could - and Christian fanatics would - argue that these are fundamental Christian issues. But America is a democracy and people vote with their feet. Fact is, people need economic security more than they need racial division, alcohol prohibition, and lectures about sex. And so the government has grown, and the role of government in providing economic security has grown, while the churches wilt and become less and less capable of really providing charitable support for the whole population even if they wanted to (which they don't). Conservatives never want to face up to the reality that the fundamental purpose of religion and government, from the perspective of individual people, is providing them with economic security. The provision of economic security is massive, permanent, and requires shifting wealth from those who have a lot and want more, to those who don't, on a continuous and rather heavy basis. Charity is supposed to do that, but the churches have never done it on the scale necessary, and focus on aspects of social control that have been at best intrusive into life where people do not want intrusion, generally unhelpful (Prohibition), or outright evil (Southern Christian arguments for racial segregation and slavery). This has served to discredit Christianity over the historical span. (Note well how Protestants remember the details of Catholic crimes committed five hundred years ago in the time of Luther - nobody forgets the sins of organized religion.) There is nothing on the cards at all that indicates that organized Christianity will get smarter or step up to its charitable role. Christians have never wanted to do that, and still don't. So, essentially, organized Christianity is expensive, intrusive and useless, and more and more people see that and walk away from it now that there are other entertainment options. Which means, in turn that even though the Churches COULD HAVE BEEN the social safety net, had they actually fulfilled their true purpose, they are no longer capable of replacing the government in that role even now, and in the future they will be weaker, smaller, and increasingly irrelevant, like they are in Europe. Which means that the government will remain the foundation and source of the social safety net, and that it will continue in that role until the end of the world, as it must. Which means that the conservative right is doomed to endless political defeat and marginalization unless it changes its ideology regarding the social safety net. It is not possible to win control of any democratic country by campaigning on dismantling the social safety net, so when conservatives still talk about doing that, they are cranks on the fringe. One of the reasons that Republicans campaign on a right wing program to get their base, but always lie and never do it is because if they really did some of the things they campaign on, they would effectively be doing what the Republicans did to themselves with Prohibition: made themselves odious. One of the key planks of the Democratic platform in 1932 that got FDR elected was an end to Prohibition. He won, and within a year the Constituton was amended to end it. You can see that relentless will to power on the right in various posters here on this board. It's really offensive. People won't vote for that. You can ALSO see the will to power on the Left. People would not vote for that either, if that was all that was on offer. But the Left also provides the Social Safety net, which is why over time, since 1932, they always win. They may lose an election here or there, but none of their major advances in providing the social safety net are ever undone. Obamacare is the current example. The American people need universal health care, paid for by the government. The rest of the civilized world has it, and we need it. The right pretends we don't. but when they actually get power, they recognize that the cost of actually pulling the plug on it will be horrendous suffering which will ensure they are wiped out in the next election. So the right when it actually has power - supports the social safety net. It verbally abuses it to keep the wingnuts in their party happy, but it actually supports it. Ronald Reagan is the guy who not only shored up Social Security, but signed the law that gave access to hospital emergency rooms all across America, regardless of ability to pay. A lot of the rank and file on the right really believe in dismantling the social welfare state and rolling back laws on sexual liberty, hard prohibition on pot. They even manage to maintain some dry counties down South. But even when "their" party wins, the social welfare state is never rolled back, because it cannot be. It cannot be for exactly the same reason that the country is not going to abandon electricity and go back to living like the Amish. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-09   7:46:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: Vicomte13 (#11) Darn, and I only wrote thirty (30) words. Before attempting to respond to your general essay, I am going to provide some articles with general religious growth and decline statistics, simply for general reference purposes. http://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2015/may/pew-evangelicals-stay-strong-us-religious-landscape-study.html Pew: Evangelicals Stay Strong as Christianity Crumbles in America Amid changing US religious landscape, Christians ‘decline sharply’ as unaffiliated rise. But born-again believers aren't to blame. Sarah Eekhoff Zylstra May 11, 2015 11:04 PM The main methods for measuring American faith are flawed. So thinks the Pew Research Center, which today released the second wave of a massive study designed to “fill the gap” left by the United States census (no questions on religion), the self-reporting of denominations (“widely differing criteria”), and smaller surveys (too few questions or people). Scrutinizing the past seven years, Pew finds that, amid the rise of the “nones” and other popular talking points, the fate of evangelicals is proving much brighter than Christianity at large. Here are highlights from the US Religious Landscape Study, conducted among more than 35,000 adults in English and Spanish, of how American religion has changed from 2007 to 2014: 1) Evangelicals have remained remarkably stable Over the past seven years, evangelicals have lost less than 1 percent of their share of the population, holding steady at about 1 in 4 American adults (25.4% in 2014, vs. 26.3% in 2007) and preserving their status as the nation’s largest religious group. In contrast, mainline Protestants have lost almost 3.5 percent of their population share and are currently less than 15 percent of American adults, while Catholics lost about 3 percent of their population share and are currently about 21 percent of adults. The declines have allowed the religiously unaffiliated, who gained nearly 7 percent in population share, to surge past Catholics and mainline Protestants to become America’s second-largest religious group (22.8% of adults). (Historically black Protestant denominations, tracked separately though nearly three-quarters of their members identify as evangelicals, were statistically unchanged.) Evangelical churches also added more than 2 million people to their ranks, up from 59.8 million in 2007 to 62.2 million in 2014. Meanwhile, mainline churches lost 5 million people. “As a result, evangelicals now constitute a clear majority (55%) of all US Protestants,” noted Pew. The population share of evangelicals rises even higher when identified differently. For the above findings, Pew categorized Americans by denominational affiliation. (Evangelical denominations include the Southern Baptist Convention, the Assemblies of God, Churches of Christ, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the Presbyterian Church in America, and nondenominational churches.) But Pew also asked: “Would you describe yourself as a born-again or evangelical Christian, or not?” In response, about one-third of American adults (35%) self-identified as evangelicals in 2014, nearly the same as in 2007 (34%). Meanwhile, Americans who self-identified as Christians dropped from 78 percent in 2007 to 71 percent in 2014. [...] nolu chan  posted on  2017-09-09   16:49:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: All (#21) https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/factchecker-are-all-christian-denominations-in-decline FactChecker: Are All Christian Denominations in Decline? The Gospel Coalition Current Events, Ministry / Joe Carter March 17, 2015 Many Americans, both within and outside the church, share Evans perception of the decline of denominations. But is it true? Are most denominations truly seeing a decline in numbers? Before we answer the question, we should clarify what is meant by “decline.” We could, for instance, say that Protestantism has been on the decline since the 1970s. That would be true. We could also say there are now more Protestants today than there were in the 1970s. That too would be true. The fact is that the percentage of people identifying as Protestant has declined since the 1970s while the total number of Protestants has increased (62 percent of Americans identified as Protestant in 1972 and only 51 percent did so in 2010). Yet because of the population increase in the U.S., there were 28 million more Protestants in 2010 than in 1972. So did Protestantism in America decline since the 1970s? Yes (percentwise) and no (total numbers). What about when we drill down to the denominations that comprise Protestantism in America? Here the differences depend on whether we look at short-term or long-term trends. If we look at the short-term (year-to-year) trends, we may be able to detect a decline in some groups, especially in large denominations. For instance, the membership of the Southern Baptist Convention—the largest Protestant denomination in America—declined by 105,708 from 2011 to 2012. While that sounds like a lot of people, the denomination could lose that many members every year for 150 years before the pews in SBC churches would be completely empty. In the case of the SBC, and other conservative denominations, the trend seems to be that they’re losing members to other conservative denominations, especially non-denominational ones. As of 2010, four percent of Americans (12,200,000) worshipped in a nondenominational church. There are almost as many members of nondenominational churches as there are members of the SBC—and almost as many as in all of the mainline churches combined. A decline in a conservative denominational church is often offset by an increase in a conservative non-denominational church. When tracking changes to gauge the overall health of a denomination, it makes more sense to look at long-term trends. If we look back 50 years (to 1965) we can see a clear and unequivocal trendline: liberal denominations have declined sharply while conservative denominations have increased or remained the same. Here are the primary mainline denominations, every one of which has seen long-term decline in membership: Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) In 1965, the CC(DoC) had 1,918,471 members. In 2012, the membership was 625,252, a decline of 67 percent. Reformed Church in America In 1967, the RCA had 384,751 members. In 2014, the membership was 145,466, a decline of 62 percent. United Church of Christ (Congregationalist) In 1965, the UCC had 2,070,413 members. In 2012, there were 998,906 members, a decline of 52 percent. Episcopal Church In 1966, the TEC had 3,647,297 members. By 2013, the membership was 1,866,758, a decline of 49 percent. (Those numbers should be even lower, though, since those figures by the TEC include breakaway churches trying to leave the denomination.) Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) (PCUSA) In 1967, the PC(USA) had 3,304,321 members. In 2013, the membership was 1,760,200, a decline of 47 percent. United Methodist Church (UMC) In 1967, the UMC had 11,026,976 members. In 2012, the membership was 7,391,911, a decline of 33 percent. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) In 1987, the ECLA had 5,288,230 members. In 2013, the membership was 3,863,133, a decline of 27 percent. (Note: The ELCA was formally constituted in 1988 as a merger of the Lutheran Church in America, the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches and the American Lutheran Church.) American Baptist Churches In 1967, the ABC/USA had 1,335,342 members. In 2012, the membership was 1,308,054, a decline of 2 percent.   (Note: The ABC/USA has been able to stem its decline among white congregants by replacing them with African American and Hispanic members.) Now let’s look at a few of the primary non-mainline denominations, almost every one of which has increased in membership since the mid-1960s.  Church of God in Christ In 1965, the CoG had 425,000 members. In 2012, the membership was 5,499,875, an increase of 1,194 percent. Presbyterian Church in America In 1973, the PCA had 41,232 members. In 2013, the membership was 367,033, an increase of 790 percent. (Note: The Presbyterian Church in America was founded in 1974 by conservative members of the Presbyterian Church in the United States who rejected that church's merger with the United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A.) Evangelical Free Church of America In 1965, the EFCA had 43,851 members. In 2013, the membership was 372,321 , an increase of 749 percent. Assemblies of God In 1965, the AoG had 572,123 members. In 2013, the membership was 3,030,944, an increase of 430 percent. African Methodist Episcopal Church In 1951, the AME had 1,166,301 members. In 2012, the membership was 2,500,000, an increase of 114 percent. Southern Baptist Convention In 1965, the SBC had 10,770,573 members. In 2013, the membership was 15,735,640, an increase of 46 percent. Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod   In 1965, the LCMS had 2,692,889 members. In 2012, the membership was 2,163,698, a decline of 20 percent. Mainliners may try to comfort themselves by claiming that every denomination is in decline, but it’s simply not true. While conservative churches aren’t growing as quickly as they once were, mainline churches are on a path toward extinction. The mainline churches are finding that as they move further away from Biblical Christianity, the closer they get to their inevitable demise. nolu chan  posted on  2017-09-09   16:50:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: nolu chan (#22) The mainline churches are finding that as they move further away from Biblical Christianity, the closer they get to their inevitable demise. Maybe. What I see is the demographic death of the white population, with all of their religions. And the demographic growth of the minorities - particularly Hispanics and Asians - and the growth of their religions. I don't have the statistics (and don't feel like doing the research right now), but I would wager that Islam has grown faster in America than any evangelical group, that the largest growth in evangelicals has been the shift of Hispanics out of the Catholic church (but that more Hispanics become non-affiliated than join Protestant groups), that among the Blacks, conversions to Islam exceed conversions to any Christian group. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-09   18:12:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 23.         There are no replies to Comment # 23. End Trace Mode for Comment # 23. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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