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Title: Here’s Who Will Lament — and Celebrate — the Plummeting U.S. Birth Rate
Source: Foreign Relations
URL Source: http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/03 ... s-abortion-immigration-europe/
Published: Jul 3, 2017
Author: Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian
Post Date: 2017-07-21 15:23:03 by Anthem
Keywords: Population, Control, Freaks
Views: 6205
Comments: 71

The birth rate among women in the United States just hit a historic low, leading some demographers to worry that population decline may lie in our future.

New data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reveal that in 2016, there were just 62 live births per 1,000 women of childbearing age. That’s a one percent decrease from 2015, and the lowest rate on record. Blame the millennials, say demographers — they’re not having kids. Some commentators have worried this may become a “national emergency” if the rate were to drop below population replacement levels.

What’s so bad about fewer babies? That depends on who you ask — and, often, their political leanings.

A population that fails to replace itself means a growing elderly population sustained by a shrinking workforce, creating social anxiety, economic troubles, and a general sense of cultural malaise.

William Frey, a population expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, suspects that a still-recovering U.S. economy is to blame for the dip, rather than more permanent factors. “Every year I say when the economy is getting better then we’ll start having more children,” Frey told the Washington Post, “and I’m still expecting that to happen.”

Solutions to population woes are where partisan views begin to diverge. Conservatives are more likely to emphasize religious and traditional values as the best way to encourage families to have more children.

A May 2015 article in Breitbart, the alt-right news site, called falling fertility rates among millennial women “disturbing.” It connected lower birth rates to abortion, noting that 5.6 million pregnancies had been terminated between 2007 and 2011 — a common view in the pro-life movement but less widely accepted outside of it.

In some European countries, many of which have lower fertility rates than the United States, governments have launched public initiatives, such as Denmark’s “Do it for mom” campaign in 2015, which encouraged couples to have kids to please their parents.

Another way to ensure population replacement is through robust immigration. But that is another point where partisan concerns about fertility diverge — and where some of the real civilizational angst can set in.

Japan presents an extreme case. The nation’s population is already in net decline, with whole villages aging away. There’s one village where elderly residents make life-size dolls and place them in classrooms and playgrounds to remind them of what children are like, since there are no more children there anymore.

As the working population in Japan shrinks, there won’t be enough nurses to take care of the people who will soon be filling up nursing homes. Taiwan and Hong Kong also have some of the lowest fertility rates in the world, but they’ve implemented visa programs that allow foreign workers.

But Japan has kept its immigration laws watertight, preferring instead to pour billions of dollars into creating service robots for the country’s burgeoning nursing home industry. The Japanese government would literally rather have robots take care of its aging population than open the country to non-Japanese workers.

Tinges of a similar ethnocentrism can be found, with increasing fervor in the past few years, in more distant corners of the American and European right. Concerns about declining birth rates, rising immigration from non-Western countries, and the fall of the Judeo-Christian West resonate on both sides of the Atlantic.

Britain’s former chief rabbi, Lord Jonathan Sacks, has warned that the secularization of Europe was leading to its demographic, moral, and ultimately civilizational downfall. Sacks claimed in an interview with the Daily Telegraph in 2016 that there was no “historical example of a society that became secularised and maintained its birth rate over subsequent centuries.”

“That’s how great civilizations decline and fall,” he said.

These fears help explain why Trump’s base can support policies that would reduce overall immigration while simultaneously fearing a shrinking population. In May 2016 White House chief strategist and former Breitbart chief Stephen Bannon invited Italian conservative Benjamin Harnwell to his radio show to share a similar message.

“There’s not a single country, a single EU member state, that has a fertility rate at replacement level,” Harnwell claimed. Yet Muslim immigration threatened the continent as well, he said, since Europeans, who have lost touch with their Christian values, were unable to see the “innately aggressive” aspects of Islam.

News of the low birth rate is likely to delight at least one U.S. group — the small Virginia-based nonprofit Negative Population Growth. The group believes that endless population growth will destroy the environment and strain resources; it supports policies to lower the birthrate and reduce immigration to “traditional levels.”

Theirs isn’t a view that is currently widely held in the United States, but it harks back to fears of a “population bomb” that gripped the Western world in the 1970s, when the group was founded. In 1969, Paul Ehrlich, a popular public intellectual and biologist who frequently appeared on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, declared at a conference, “Our first move must be to convince all those we can that the planet Earth must be viewed as a spaceship of limited carrying capacity.” The United Nations declared 1974 “Population Year,” and more than a hundred countries gathered to discuss global population control measures. China’s draconian one-child policy was borne in part from this strain of thought.

“We must not simply stop population growth,” Negative Population Growth proclaims on its website. “We must turn it around.”


Poster Comment:

That is a crude birth rate of about 10.3 which is far below the projected CBR of 18.2 for 2015-2020.

From Wikipedia

World historical and projected crude birth rates (1950–2050)

  

Years

CBR

  

1950–1955

37.2

  

1955–1960

35.3

  

1960–1965

34.9

  

1965–1970

33.4

  

1970–1975

30.8

  

1975–1980

28.4

  

1980–1985

27.9

  

1985–1990

27.3

  

1990–1995

24.7

  

1995–2000

22.5

  

2000–2005

21.2

  

2005–2010

20.3

  

2010–2015

19.4

  

2015–2020

18.2

  

2020–2025

16.9

  

2025–2030

15.8

  

2030–2035

15

  

2035–2040

14.5

  

2040–2045

14

  

2045–2050

13.4

  
 
 

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#31. To: Liberator (#29)

Muslims do NOT want to work, will NOT work, this a tinderbox is about to explode. Muslims are of the opinion that these God-less, European Socialists are their (near) future slaves.

This amounts to a mindless rant against Muslims. I have known many Muslims -- Turks, Persians, and east Africans, most of whom were good hearted people. The only exception in my experience were the Semites -- Arabs from UAE and SA -- that I dealt with in the late '70s and early '90s.

they've invited rapidly breeding self-entitled Muslim barbarian-parasites who believe their host-nations are "Allah's Gift" to *them*.

Today the Muslims are a pissed off population, and I wouldn't want them around me because of that. I don't forget that it was the Jews who pissed them off by destroying their countries and driving them into Europe and trying to get them here. If we put a stop to the Zionist terrorism and constant manipulation of Christian and Muslim, then they could go back home and we could live in peace.

Which is not the topic of this thread.

Anthem  posted on  2017-07-23   19:23:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Liberator (#30)

The Vatican is an evil, counterfeit *commercial* enterprise. Always have been. They have been controlling ancient and not-so-ancient history itself, hiding it, and both Evil and Truth within the bowels of the Vatican.

More Jewish propaganda. They have been successful in their efforts to manipulate the Protestant and Evangelical churches. Divide and conquer.

Anthem  posted on  2017-07-23   19:28:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Anthem (#32)

Your comment is propaganda.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-07-23   19:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: A K A Stone (#33) (Edited)

Your comment is propaganda.

Edit: Actually, yes it is. I am promoting awareness of the behavior of the Jews. I can make the case for it.

(original post below)

No, I am not promoting the Catholic Church (I am not a Catholic). What I'm combating is unproven and unprovable aspersions cast on it.

If there were a reasoned discussion about it, then I would acknowledge well made points. I've not seen any reasonable comments that could form the basis for a discussion.

Anthem  posted on  2017-07-23   19:42:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Liberator (#30)

WHAT are THE tenets that are held so near and dear to your heart

This will take awhile to unpack.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-23   20:22:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: All (#35)

And in the end, it's not worth the bother. I've never in my life ever seen anybody convinced by a religious argument. Haters' gonna hate. The better course is to spare the time and use it on something else.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-23   23:14:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Anthem (#34)

If there were a reasoned discussion about it, then

Since that's never going to happen, may as well use your time for something more fruitful.

Elsewhere there's an article about the death of the Church of England. Of course it's dying!

Elsewhere still, there's an article about the PM of Hungary decrying the Islamicization of Europe. Of course it's Islamicizing! Nature abhors a vacuum, and in Europe now there is a yawning vacuum of faith. Enter: Islam.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-23   23:17:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Vicomte13 (#36) (Edited)

And in the end, it's not worth the bother. I've never in my life ever seen anybody convinced by a religious argument.

I once held many of the views of the Catholic Church that are (crudely) expressed here. It was argument with FRiends whose intellect I respected that got me started in the direction of learning more about it. Eventually I even had an epiphany about the Trinity.

Faith, Hope, Charity.

Anthem  posted on  2017-07-23   23:40:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: rlk (#1)

If we have less children being born to fill jobs the wages rise. As the wages rise, one person in the family can once again feed, clothe and house the family on his pay. When that begins to happen, females will once again choose to be a housewife and have more children.

I know this is a radical idea, but women actually LOVE to be at home with their children, and would also LOVE to work part time or not at all if they could only afford it. Since 54% of all college graduates are now women, this would also affect enrollment rates in University pushing them downward, making tuition less expensive.

Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2017-07-23   23:58:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: jeremiad (#39)

I know this is a radical idea, but women actually LOVE to be at home with their children...

I know that. It is an integral constituent of their sex drive. But don't tell that to the Playboy philosophers or the members of the Woman's lib movement or they will try to chop off your head.

rlk  posted on  2017-07-24   0:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Vicomte13 (#37)

in Europe now there is a yawning vacuum of faith...

It's not a vacuum of faith. It's a vacuum of IQ. People who will believe one stupid brand of bull shit on pure faith can not be trusted not to believe in another if it is doctored up with enough pleasant adjectives and exhortations. Enter Islam.

rlk  posted on  2017-07-24   1:15:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: jeremiad (#39)

If we have less children being born to fill jobs the wages rise. As the wages rise, one person in the family can once again feed, clothe and house the family on his pay. When that begins to happen, females will once again choose to be a housewife and have more children.

I know this is a radical idea, but women actually LOVE to be at home with their children, and would also LOVE to work part time or not at all if they could only afford it. Since 54% of all college graduates are now women, this would also affect enrollment rates in University pushing them downward, making tuition less expensive.

Of course. But, you see, rising wages cut deeply into profits across the board, because at a certain point you cannot raise prices on consumer goods anymore. There comes a point where the price reduces the demand curve.

The way to maximize profits is to have cheap exploitable labor. That is the bottom line for the billionaires who own the society. And they will not - WILL NOT - accept the redistribution of their wealth through higher wages. They won't accept it through taxation either, of course, but the tax burden is shifted to the upper middle class and professional class, and does not touch the upper-upper class relatively speaking. High wages DIRECTLY take money out of the pockets of the riches.

The political pressure from the top - for cheap labor, and from the Democrat party - for numerous voters, is a steady, relentless pressure. And, lest we forget, the Republican Establishment itself opposes Trumpism with regards to immigration control.

So yes, what you say is true about wages. BUT to get to that and maintain it will require a lifelong fight of many generations, and both the Democrat party and the top echelons of the Republican Party will always resist it.

So, unless we see a new party arise in America, the political will to sustain the fight on a permanent basis does not exist.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-24   6:32:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: rlk (#41)

It's not a vacuum of faith. It's a vacuum of IQ. People who will believe one stupid brand of bull shit on pure faith can not be trusted not to believe in another if it is doctored up with enough pleasant adjectives and exhortations. Enter Islam.

I disagree - not to be disagreeable, but because I don't think that is what is happening.

The Europeans are not becoming Muslims. They have already become secular. They have no God other than their bellies, and the economic pressures are such that they don't have children either. Islam is pouring into the labor vacuum there for the same reason that Hispanics are pouring into America.

Islam is not convincing the Europeans to believe it, it is bodily replacing the Europeans en masse because the Europeans believe in nothing and don't have babies, while Muslims have great numbers of babies, who have babies.

Religiously speaking, the Europeans have nothing to hold on to. Secular philosophy simply causes them to pursue sex and recreation, uninterested in spiritual matters. There is no theology to challenge Islam among the young ethnics being born there and rising in numbers, so they retain their Islam, and a sense of rising to power. The Europeans feel essentially confident that their secular "risen above religion" will hold the day, because they cannot imagine crawling back down into darkness and superstition - and they won't. But they don't have babies, so they're dying out. The Muslims don't want European secularism. Christianity has been a dead letter in Europe since the World Wars.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-24   6:38:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Anthem (#38) (Edited)

I once held many of the views of the Catholic Church that are (crudely) expressed here. It was argument with FRiends whose intellect I respected that got me started in the direction of learning more about it. Eventually I even had an epiphany about the Trinity.

But they were friends, and you respected them.

Also, did they not already share your political viewpoint, so you already had a key point of convergence, where you already agreed, on basic Republican politics?

Also, you strike me as a reasonable person who was never a flaming firebrand, full of hatred towards that which you did not understand. You had certain of the ideas you see expressed here, but you weren't out there in public carrying a torch for them, were you?

It was possible to talk to you without getting spat upon, was it not? And when some sort of evidence was presented to you for you to consider, you looked at it and considered, did you not?

Do you think that any of those conditions exist here, were I to make an attempt to do what your friends did for you? Was it not more YOUR character that made you receptive to them, then THEIR information and teaching?

Faith, Hope, Charity, yes. But after a certain point, one has to shake the dust off his sandals and walk away.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-24   6:58:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Vicomte13 (#44)

Professing themselves to be wise they became fools.

Truth vic learn it.

Today's challenge. Why do Catholics disrespect God by calling a sinful man holy father? If you swallow your pride you will admit that it is a sin. But you will not you will dodge and give some catholic dogma. Then say I'm hateful because I shared the truth to you.

Professing themselves to be wise they became fools.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-07-24   8:35:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: A K A Stone (#45)

It is not a sin to call the Pope the Holy Father.

You are referring to Jesus' quote in which he told the Jews listening to him to call no man father, for we have only one Father, in heaven.

Read literally (which is to say, wooden-headedly) Jesus told you to not call you own father "father" - he is, after all, a man, and Jesus is quotes as saying "Call NO man 'father'".

Read correctly, Jesus was speaking to a specific group of Jews, about the Jewish practice of honoring learned Jews, who were actually teaching them things that caused them to go astray. In the same context, Jesus told THEM (his Jewish audience) not to call anyone "teacher" (rabbi/master), for the same reason.

The LESSON of this teacher was "Whoever exalts himself shall be abased, and he that humbles himself shall be exalted." In the same passage Jesus says "He that is greatest among you shall be your servant."

This is why a title of the Pope is "Servant of the servants of God."

If you read this woodenheadedly, you will stop using the word "father" except as applies to God, and stop using the word "teacher" also - again except as a name for God.

Is that what Jesus meant? No it isn't.

When Jesus reminded people of the duty to honor their fathers and mothers, he was not speaking of The Father in Heaven. Jesus sent out his disciples and apostles telling them to be teachers. Paul referred to himself as the father of Onesimus, and also as the father of the members of the Church in Corinth.

So no, actually, Jesus did not prohibit the use of the word "father" or "teacher". He was teaching a polemic lesson about the lack of authority of the Pharisees as teachers and fathers, for they were leading men astray.

To call the Pope, head of Christ's Church on earth, "father", is to do no more than Paul did. It wasn't a sin when Paul did it. It's not a sin when we do it. And it wasn't a SIN when the Jews called rabbis "teacher" and "father". It was a MISTAKE - Jesus is pointing out a MISTAKE - he's not giving a commandment, a divine law.

This is obvious, just like it's obvious from just reading it that the whole Law of Moses - the Torah - applied to Hebrews only, not Gentiles, and Jesus didn't MAKE IT apply to Gentiles.

Paul was not showing disrespect for God when he referred to himself as the spiritual father of many. And Catholics are not showing disrespect for God when they refer to the human head of Jesus' Church as "Holy Father".

No Catholics think that the Pope is God. No Catholic ever did.

"Profession themselves to be wise, they became fools"? Back at ya.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-24   10:29:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: A K A Stone (#45)

Truth vic learn it.

And why, exactly, do you think that YOU possess the truth?

I know God is with me because of the miracles, very great and small. God is with me.

Why do you think he's with you when you come after me?

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-24   10:40:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Anthem (#20) (Edited)

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That sentence is one of the most fallacious and attractive statements of entrapment in existence. Years ago, I had a close friend who was one of the top produce men in the the country. He said there were people of such low intelligence that if they couldn't eat it, drink it, drive it, or fuck it, they didn't understand it and didn't want any part of it. He made millions of dollars offering them good produce to eat.

To this I will add a fifth category. Any left wing politician who gives them permission to steal gives them right to address income inequality and pursue their version of happiness. Hence the success of the Hillarys and Obamas.

Now we are immigating genetic low IQ mental defectives by the millions into this country in the name of offering income equality.

rlk  posted on  2017-07-24   14:51:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Vicomte13 (#46)

Traveling. I'll read what you said close when I get a chance. Thanks for the reply.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-07-24   17:30:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Vicomte13 (#47)

I know God is with me because of the miracles, very great and small. God is with me.

What miracles? The ravings of a hallucinogenic nutcase?

rlk  posted on  2017-07-24   17:39:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: rlk (#50)

What miracles? The ravings of a hallucinogenic nutcase?

Ive talked about them with you before. Hallucinogenic? No. Not only do I not cause hallucinations (the actual meaning of the word hallucinogenic), but I've never used hallucinogens or any other illegal drug.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-24   19:50:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: A K A Stone (#49)

No rush. No need for a response to what I have written.

Instead, you could tell me why it is that you think that the Bible is the sole source of revelation, and why the King James Version, specifically, is the correct translation.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-24   19:51:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Vicomte13 (#51) (Edited)

Ive talked about them with you before. Hallucinogenic? No. Not only do I not cause hallucinations (the actual meaning of the word hallucinogenic), but I've never used hallucinogens or any other illegal drug.

You didn't need to. You spent a lifetime creating your own brand of insanity. You label it a form of superior intellect.

rlk  posted on  2017-07-24   20:09:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Vicomte13 (#52)

No rush. No need for a response to what I have written.

Instead, you could tell me why it is that you think that the Bible is the sole source of revelation, and why the King James Version, specifically, is the correct translation.

I think the Bishops Bible is also correct.

I compared it to King Jammes. Admittedly a very limited comparison. But they were pretty much identical and also completely identical.

I think that because God promised that people would have his word in their language. I can't remember chapter and verse but I think you know what I am talking about. So do you think a fake translation would come first?

Do you think the King James is incorrect or fake?

This was easier than your previous statement so I started with the easy stuff.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-07-25   0:28:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Vicomte13 (#52)

Bible is the sole source of revelation

No I think God reveals stuff to people. I think that the things he reveals to people through prayer would never contradict the Bible. I don't think there is any new revelations that we need to know. Everything we need to know is in the Bible. Doesn't it say it is finished at the end of the Bible or something like that?

Also I thought I asked you another question from my phone earlier today but I guess it didn't get sent. But my question was what is the definition of holy, and is the pope holy?

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-07-25   0:34:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: rlk (#53)

You didn't need to. You spent a lifetime creating your own brand of insanity. You label it a form of superior intellect.

I've spent a lifetime living a life that has, at times, had contact with the divine. This is not insanity. It's the reason I'm alive at all, actually. It's why I am certain about certain things (such as the existence of God), and why I am as brave and stubborn as a stone wall when those things that I know are challenged.

I don't label it superior intellect. That's your label. What it is, in the case of the existence of God, is simply a matter of superior knowledge. You don't believe God exists. Others believe he does. I know it, from direct experience. This doesn't make my intellect superior to anybody. It simply means that I have greater certitude.

The people who have not seen and yet believe have had to reason their way to belief without the proof. You have reasoned your way to unbelief because of the lack of proof satisfactory to you. You can bicker with them over intellectual superiority. I can tell you that their basic conclusion: God is, is the truth, and if you believed that I am telling the truth, you could engage your own intellect to figure out how to fit what you know into a framework in which God exists, as opposed to your preferred view, that he does not.

But beyond that, I would say that it's not very smart to come after anybody and say "You did not experience that, because I don't believe that exists." That is extraordinarily narrow- minded, and really looks very dumb from the perspective of anybody who really did experience what you don't believe exists. Your belief is wrong. But you're so very certain of it that you cannot imagine a world in which it is wrong, even though you live in one.

That's not me having a superior intellect, it's you mistaking your own belief system about the world for truth.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-25   6:41:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: A K A Stone (#54)

I think that because God promised that people would have his word in their language. I can't remember chapter and verse but I think you know what I am talking about.

You can't remember the chapter and verse because there isn't one that says that. The closest you can get is the statement that God's word endures forever, but that's not the same thing, first, because God's word is not a written thing, and second, there's no promise of a Bible or a translation thereof.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-25   6:45:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: A K A Stone (#55)

Also I thought I asked you another question from my phone earlier today but I guess it didn't get sent. But my question was what is the definition of holy, and is the pope holy?

"Holy" means "set apart as sacred".

The papal office is certainly set apart and intended to be sacred. Whether it is or not depends on the character and behavior of the man seated in it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-25   8:31:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: A K A Stone (#55)

I don't think there is any new revelations that we need to know. Everything we need to know is in the Bible. Doesn't it say it is finished at the end of the Bible or something like that?

No. The end of the Book of Revelation, which is placed at the end of the Bible only by tradition, says that if anybody adds or takes away from "this book" then the calamities described in the book will be visited upon them.

"This book" is not the Bible. There was no Bible when Revelation was written at the end of the 1st Century. The first Bibles did not exist until the 4th Century, after Christianity had been legalized by the Emperor Constantine and could come out of hiding and organize monasteries to copy them out.

The "add nothing to and subtract nothing from this book" language in Revelation refers to Revelation itself. It isn't the only self-referential part of the book of Revelation. It certainly doesn't refer to a Bible that would not exist for another two and a half centuries.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-25   8:39:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Vicomte13 (#56)

Wail your tune for me. When the hell are you going make an effort to grow up?

rlk  posted on  2017-07-25   11:51:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: rlk (#60)

Wail your tune for me. When the hell are you going make an effort to grow up?

Seems like you're just twisted and bitter. Life pass you by?

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-25   13:07:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Vicomte13 (#61)

Seems like you're just twisted and bitter. Life pass you by?

It's trying, but I'm fighting back. So far I have a national or international reputation in four areas. If the doctors can get me a few more years, I'm not ready to check out yet.

rlk  posted on  2017-07-25   13:32:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: rlk (#62)

It's trying, but I'm fighting back. So far I have a national or international reputation in four areas. If the doctors can get me a few more years, I'm not ready to check out yet.

Well, I hope the doctors do that and you pull through, so that I can annoy you for a couple more decades.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-26   7:52:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Vicomte13 (#42)

There needs to be a move away from taxation on income from labor, to taxation ONLY on profit. Let people pay taxes on imported goods, stock and money trades, the yearly increase in the stock portfolio, and earnings from investment increases. This would lead to more trades, and more taxes. $.10 or less on the dollar would bring in Trillions.

Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2017-07-27   11:48:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: jeremiad (#64)

There needs to be a move away from taxation on income from labor, to taxation ONLY on profit. Let people pay taxes on imported goods, stock and money trades, the yearly increase in the stock portfolio, and earnings from investment increases. This would lead to more trades, and more taxes. $.10 or less on the dollar would bring in Trillions.

Taxation on gross wealth, however derived or acquired, is the fairest way to handle it. Wealth taxation does not warp the economy in the way that sales, profit and income taxes do. A dollar is a dollar is a dollar, whether you inherited it or earned it. Tax each dollar as a dollar, once a year, set the tax rate at a level sufficient to fund the government, and let that be that.

Because 1% of the country possesses 50% of the national wealth of the US, if you tax anything BUT wealth, in order to pay for everything you have to tax the active part of the economy at double the rates you would have to if you tax the wealth.

For most people a gross wealth tax at the levels needed to run the government would be a tax cut. For the top 1%, it would be a very large tax increase. And that is completely appropriate. 50% of the national wealth should not escape taxation leaving the burden of running everything on the backs of people who aren't wealthy.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-27   13:00:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Vicomte13 (#65)

Taxation on gross wealth

You and I will have to go into this. Sorry I've fallen behind in our conversation. I'm in a tunnel, probably through the weekend, so any sustained effort is on the back burner.

Anthem  posted on  2017-07-27   13:32:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Anthem (#66)

Taxation on gross wealth

You and I will have to go into this.

Indeed.

We have the situation we have. It has been wrought by long-standing politics and structures of the society. However we got here, the net result is a very extreme wealth concentration. Some figures:

'As of 2013, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 36.7% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 52.2%.

This means that just 20% of the people owned 89%, leaving only 11% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers).

In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.8%.

This breaks down into the top 1% owning 49.8% of all privately held stock, 54.7% of financial securities, and 62.8% of business equity.

The top ten percent had 84% to 94% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and almost 80% of non-home real estate.

40% of the population has a NEGATIVE net worth. (Note that under a gross wealth tax system, they will also pay the tax, because the tax is on GROSS wealth, not NET wealth.)

A gross wealth tax is actually more regressive than a net wealth tax, as the top 1% has 36.7% of the wealth but only 5.4% of the debt, while the next 9% has 37.6%% of the wealth but only 21.1% of the debt. The bottom 90% have 73.5% of the debt, but only 25.7% of the wealth.

So, in theory, a NET wealth tax would impose the entire tax burden on the top 60%, because they are the only ones with any net worth.

However, if we do that, the result will be gamesmanship, as the nation lards up on private debt to offset wealth, to avoid taxation. This is exactly the wrong way to go. Everybody should pay something, if only for the ability to say "I pay taxes, therefore I have the right to a voice and a vote." Obviously a wealth tax naturally falls heaviest on those who have the most wealth, and those are precisely the people who benefit the most from our system. The tax RATE should be the same for everybody, unlike now. The way the tax code is structured now, with loopholes and foundations, it strongly favors the super rich.

That needs to change. The simplest, fairest way to cut the Gordian Knot is a growth wealth tax. It's also the fairest.

All one need do is calculate how much it takes to run the government at the federal, state and local levels, calculate the gross national wealth, and then set a flat gross wealth tax rate that brings in that much money.

This will indeed force some ossified, locked up capital to be periodically liquidated. That's a good thing.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-27   14:03:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Vicomte13 (#67)

All of the things you cite are exactly what was wanted by instituting taxes on wages. It is a plank on the Communist platform for a reason, it concentrates power at the top, leaving the peons penniless. Like everything about Communism, what is taught and preached about it are nearly 180 degrees at odds with reality.

Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2017-07-27   22:59:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: jeremiad (#68)

All of the things you cite are exactly what was wanted by instituting taxes on wages.

The rich have always avoided the direct taxes on wealth by shunting off the burden on other people. Everybody should bear an equal strain: same rate on everybody.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-28   11:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Vicomte13 (#69)

Equal on everybody, except the owners or CEO's of a business, raise the cost to the consumer and feel no pain at all. I like the idea of taxing the wealth ie stocks, bonds, which means capital gains and a small pct on stock and financial trades EVERY ONE pays nickel or a dime. Get rid of all income taxes, they lay heavy on the poorest. Not because of what they pay, but because of the bribes that change hands while writing tax code in the form of campaign funds. I would also go for free television ads for candidates, and public funding of them.

Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2017-07-30   22:43:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: jeremiad (#70)

Equal on everybody, except the owners or CEO's of a business, raise the cost to the consumer and feel no pain at all.

If they could just simply do that, they would not fight so hard against taxes. The truth is that when taxes are raised, businesses can generally pass SOME, but not ALL of the cost along.

The reason for this is simple economics: when the price goes up, consumers buy less of the thing. A price hike that completely covers the cost of the tax raises the prices and reduces demand for the product, which means that fewer units are purchased. The CEO loses money because he can't sell enough product at the new higher price to offset the cost of the taxes.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-07-31   8:43:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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