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Cult Watch
See other Cult Watch Articles

Title: *Of Course* Libertarians Are Leading the Charge Against Trump's Authoritarianism
Source: Reason
URL Source: http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/02/o ... libertarians-are-leading-the-c
Published: Feb 2, 2017
Author: Nick Gillespie
Post Date: 2017-02-15 06:36:19 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 608
Comments: 89

The Guardian has pulled together five pieces from conservatives and libertarians who are critical of President Donald Trump's authoritarian tendencies and policies. I'm happy to be represented in the mix (for my commentary about Trump's awful, inhumane, and idiotic ban on refugees and travelers from seven countries tied to terrorism). It's a good mix of people, including some conservative critics (The New York Time's Ross Douthat, National Review's David French, Commentary's Noah Rothman) and Steve Horwitz of Bleeding Heart Libertarians along with yours truly. Here's a snippet from my piece:

That's certainly the case with Trump and his orders on sanctuary cities … and on immigration and refugee policy. The laws were not just poorly phrased and timed, they clearly will not work to address the basic issues they ostensibly are meant to ameliorate. As Anthony Fisher noted here earlier today, the US embassy in Iraq has said that Trump's action is a recruitment tool for jihadists, as pro- American Middle Easterners realize they're being hung out to dry. As for keeping America safe from terrorists entering the country as refugees, the fact is the country has an incredibly safe record.

Read the whole collection of pieces here.

Because no good deed or kind word can go unpunished, I'd like to add a bit of nuance to the way the writer, Jason Wilson, encapsulates his piece. Here's the headline and subhed:

Burst your bubble: five conservative articles to read as Trump riles libertarians

Some libertarians are reacting with alarm to Donald Trump's discriminatory executive orders, his authoritarian tendencies and international sabre-rattling

Yet the confusion is right there in headline: The "conservative articles" are the product of Trump "ril[ing] libertarians"? Wuh?

I just don't get the slowness with which people are fully grokking that libertarianism is as distinct from conservativism as it is from progressivism or leftism. I'm not trying to be pedantic or coy here, but there's a reason why libertarians (certainly those at Reason) were intensely critical of George W. Bush's executive branch overreach and Barack Obama's too, while conservatives and liberals generally stayed silent when their guy was doing the power grabbing. And so it makes total sense that libertarians are leading the attacks on Trump's attempts to be a one-man (or at least one-branch) government. Libertarianism is nothing if not the antithesis of authoritarianism. Always has been, always will be. Be sure to check out Reason's attitude toward whoever eventually replaces Trump. The minute he (or she) starts down an authoritarian road, we'll be on the case.

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#1. To: Gatlin (#0)

libertarians (certainly those at Reason) were intensely critical of George W. Bush's executive branch overreach and Barack Obama's too, while conservatives and liberals generally stayed silent when their guy was doing the power grabbing.

Libertarians are consistent in their principles regardless of which statist regime is in power.

The Trump cultists here (and the Bush-Bots before them) will accept any level of tyranny as long as it's their guy in the Oval Office.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Deckard  posted on  2017-02-15   8:31:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Deckard (#1) (Edited)

Libertarians are consistent in their principles regardless of which statist regime is in power.

The Trump cultists here (and the Bush-Bots before them) will accept any level of tyranny as long as it's their guy in the Oval Office.

I'm consistent also: human basic needs come first, before other considerations. It is best when everybody remembers that and cooperates. But when some men refuse to cooperate, then it is ok and necessary to coerce them to get done what needs to be done.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-02-15   9:01:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Gatlin (#0)

"Libertarianism is nothing if not the antithesis of authoritarianism.

Just stop at, "Libertarianism is nothing." It's a 2% fringe group that no one supports because it's philosophy is more anarchy than anti-authoritarianism.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   9:41:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Gatlin (#0)

"as pro- American Middle Easterners realize they're being hung out to dry."

Right. There's a whole bunch of pro- American Middle Easterners in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. They love us. Keep telling yourself that.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   9:45:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Deckard (#1)

"The Trump cultists here (and the Bush-Bots before them) will accept any level of tyranny as long as it's their guy in the Oval Office."

What tyranny is that? All I see is Trump acting on the campaign promises that got him elected.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   9:48:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

"then it is ok and necessary to coerce them to get done what needs to be done."

Uh-huh. Take from each according to their ability to pay, and distribute to each according to their needs.

Where have I heard that before?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   9:51:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Deckard (#1)

Libertarians are consistent in their principles

Gary the faggot johnson libertardian

murder babies, displace American workers with foreign invaders. If you're a man suck dick.

Fuck the libertarians.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-02-15   10:13:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Deckard (#1)

The Trump cultists

Says the guy who believes in talking lizards.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-02-15   10:14:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone (#7)

Gary the faggot johnson libertardian

Johnson is a FAKE libertarian.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Deckard  posted on  2017-02-15   10:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A K A Stone (#8)

The Trump cultists

Says the guy who believes in talking lizards.

I believe that what David Icke refers to as alien lizards are in fact demons from another plane of existence.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Deckard  posted on  2017-02-15   10:50:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Deckard (#9)

Johnson is a FAKE libertarian.

Not according to dopey (hondopehead). Dopey said at least 100 times we should support Gay Johnson.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-02-15   10:52:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: A K A Stone (#7)

Gary the faggot johnson libertardian

murder babies, displace American workers with foreign invaders. If you're a man suck dick.

Fuck the libertarians.

Sorry that the term "libertarian" triggers you snowflake - maybe you need to go to your safe space and pet a puppy.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Deckard  posted on  2017-02-15   10:55:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: misterwhite (#6)

Uh-huh. Take from each according to their ability to pay, and distribute to each according to their needs.

Where have I heard that before?

Well, you read that each gave according to his ability, and each received according to his needs from St. Luke in his Acts of the Apostles.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-02-15   10:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Deckard (#12)

Sorry that the term "libertarian" triggers you snowflake - maybe you need to go to your safe space and pet a puppy.

lol.

Here is what I don't like about libertarians. They think moral and immoral are the same thing.

Right is not wrong.

You dope cultists are amoral.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-02-15   11:02:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: A K A Stone (#14)

Here is what I don't like about libertarians. They think moral and immoral are the same thing.

That's a lie, but don't let the facts get in the way of your hatred for those who don't subscribe to your simplistic views.

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories.

The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Ronald Reagan

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Deckard  posted on  2017-02-15   11:18:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Vicomte13 (#13)

"Well, you read that each gave according to his ability, and each received according to his needs from St. Luke in his Acts of the Apostles."

Voluntarily. As an act of kindness and charity.

Not forced by the government.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   11:19:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Deckard (#15)

Here is what I don't like about libertarians. They think moral and immoral are the same thing. That's a lie,

Drug use is immoral. Libertarians champion it.

Case closed you lose.

Most libertarians support open borders. It is in their pathetic platform. Neal Bortz for example.

Generally speaking libertarians are atheists.

Atheists suck.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-02-15   11:23:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Deckard (#15)

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories.

The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Ronald Reagan

There are some libertarian positions that are admirable.

Like leave me alone. Still they are basically an amoral group.

One came to our high school back in the 80's. I thought they guy had a lot of weird ideas.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-02-15   11:25:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: misterwhite (#16)

Voluntarily. As an act of kindness and charity.

Not forced by the government.

It is my opinion that Vic is a very decent person that wants to help people. He wants a just world.

It is my opinion that on scripture he gets a few things wrong. Just a few. It is my opinion that he substitutes individual responsibilities and reponsibilities of the church and makes them the governments responsibility.

It makes it harder to tithe if Vic and people like him supports about half of your money being taken by the government before you get anything from your labors.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-02-15   11:29:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: A K A Stone (#14)

"They think moral and immoral are the same thing."

Libertarians believe in moral relativism -- that there is no universal moral truth. Individuals decide on their own moral standards and detest a society/religion/government which imposes moral standards on them.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   11:32:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#16)

Voluntarily. As an act of kindness and charity.

Not forced by the government.

No.

The tithe was for poverty relief, and absolutely mandatory.

The release of debt in the seventh year was mandatory, not voluntary.

The requirement to lend to the poor believer who asks, without interest, is mandatory, not voluntary.

Of course everything is "voluntary". You can go kill somebody if you want to, and maybe get away with it on earth in this life.

But for longer-term prospects, Jesus made clear what we must do.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-02-15   11:32:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#18)

"There are some libertarian positions that are admirable. Like leave me alone."

“Libertarianism,” according to conservative Jonah Goldberg, “is an ideology best suited for young folks. It compellingly tells kids everything they want to be told.”

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   11:36:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Vicomte13 (#21)

The requirement to lend to the poor believer who asks, without interest, is mandatory, not voluntary.

Then Jesus must be a sinner. He refused to give the money from their treasury to the poor. He said there would always be poor people.

I know some poor people Vic. They need your phone number. They want to ask you for some money.

They just want 10 percent of what you have.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-02-15   11:44:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Vicomte13 (#21)

The tithe was for poverty relief, and absolutely mandatory.
The release of debt in the seventh year was mandatory, not voluntary.
The requirement to lend to the poor believer who asks, without interest, is mandatory, not voluntary.

Tithing is not mentioned at all in the Acts of the Apostles. Plus, tithing is a religious concept not a government law.

The same is true of the others.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   11:50:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone (#23)

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat."
-- 2 Thessalonians 3:10

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   11:54:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#19)

"It is my opinion that Vic is a very decent person that wants to help people."

If that were true, I'd sympathize. But Vic is a person who wants the government to force me to help people.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   11:57:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: A K A Stone, Romney Ryan Trump, Satan (#11)

hondopehead). Dopey said at least 100 times we should support Gay Johnson.

I never said to vote Johnson, those are the voices in your head. But Reince Pribus ordered you to vote R, no matter how evil the candidate. So you support Satin's puppet, Trump.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party

"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

hondo68  posted on  2017-02-15   12:51:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: hondo68 (#27)

blah blah blah blah blah....BLAH!! Belch, burp, bottomBURP AND FART-styx...MUD

BTW...U R a sissy, dude.

"For courage mounteth with occasion."
-- William Shakespeare, "King John" LongDONG MacGILLuhKUddY!!

(Compliments of the Linux Fortune program.)

Told ya...MUD new IT all a...LOOOooong...ta dahhh!!

Now U dew it, mi amigo...IT ain't hard and it's sorta FUN 2 FUCK with the RATZ...MUD33

"Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States,
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the US Constitution."

Mudboy Slim  posted on  2017-02-15   13:18:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Deckard, A K A Stone, misterwhite (#15)

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so- called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories.

The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Ronald Reagan

I see you only posted a cherry picked select portion of the quote by Ronald Reagan….so typical of you scumbag lying asshole libertarians. You devious lying asshole intentionally neglected to mention that Ronald Reagan also said in the quote:
Now, I can't say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who CALL themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians [like you, Deckard, and hondope] who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy.
Can you, hondope and all other Paultard libertarian assholes ever stop lying or posing fake news and yellow journalism articles in your failed effort to support your fanatical anarchist agenda to destroy America?

Probably not …

Gatlin  posted on  2017-02-15   13:34:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: misterwhite (#26)

But Vic is a person who wants the government to force me to help people.

Correction: I want the government to continue to force you to pay taxes, along with everybody else, so that we can, as a polity, continue to help people. That's right.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-02-15   13:35:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Vicomte13 (#30)

"Correction: I want the government to continue to force you to pay taxes, along with everybody else, so that we can, as a polity, continue to help people. That's right."

"The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."
-- James Madison, speech in the House of Representatives, January 10, 1794

misterwhite  posted on  2017-02-15   13:47:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Gatlin (#29) (Edited)

You're a lying sack of donkey excrement. I never have claimed to be an anarchist.

Go genuflect before your statue of St. Donald slave-boy.

...effort to support your fanatical anarchist agenda to destroy America?

You neo-con pricks already did that with your support of Dubya.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Deckard  posted on  2017-02-15   13:48:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Gatlin (#0)

It's a good mix of people, including some conservative critics (The New York Time's Ross Douthat, National Review's David French, Commentary's Noah Rothman) and Steve Horwitz of Bleeding Heart Libertarians along with yours truly.

Good mix of people for what,pop up targets?

BTW,*I* consider myself to be a Libertarian in the model set forth by Thomas Jefferson. Shitheads like YOU are "Libertarians" in the model of Hitler. The only viewpoint you consider to be acceptable is your own.

BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO!

ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-02-15   13:59:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Deckard (#1)

The Trump cultists here (and the Bush-Bots before them) will accept any level of tyranny as long as it's their guy in the Oval Office.

Wake up,dummy! It ain't tryanny if it is harmful to the current police state and helpful to setting America back on a Constitutional basis.

BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO!

ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-02-15   14:01:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: misterwhite (#3)

Just stop at, "Libertarianism is nothing." It's a 2% fringe group that no one supports because it's philosophy is more anarchy than anti-authoritarianism.

Well,it's understandable that a natural-born slave that longs for the boot heel of a dictator on the back of his neck to think that no one else values freedom.

BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO!

ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-02-15   14:02:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: misterwhite (#6)

"then it is ok and necessary to coerce them to get done what needs to be done."

Uh-huh. Take from each according to their ability to pay, and distribute to each according to their needs.

Where have I heard that before?

FOP union meeting?

BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO!

ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-02-15   14:03:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#11)

Not according to dopey (hondopehead). Dopey said at least 100 times we should support Gay Johnson.

So what?

You DO understand we are all free to think for ourselves,right?

WTH would I or anyone else care about what Johnson thinks?

BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO!

ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-02-15   14:05:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Deckard (#32)

I never have claimed to be an anarchist.
Sure, and Ted Bundy never claimed to be a serial killer, kidnapper, rapist, burglar, and necrophile.

You are what you are….and Ted Bundy was what he was!

Gatlin  posted on  2017-02-15   14:07:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: A K A Stone (#17)

Drug use is immoral. Libertarians champion it.

Case closed you lose.

WRONG X 2.

Drug use is NOT immoral,and Libertarians do NOT "champion" it.

What Libertarians stand on is the ground that says all free adults have the right to live their own lives in peace as long as they are not harming others.

What is TRULY immoral is some witch doctor telling the sheep in his flock what is moral and what is immoral,when clearly THEY have no idea of what morality means.

BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO!

ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-02-15   14:10:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: A K A Stone (#18)

One came to our high school back in the 80's. I thought they guy had a lot of weird ideas.

Do you base your opinion of all members of a political party on the public utterances of ONE of them?

Does John McLunatic or Lady Lindsey speak for you?

BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO!

ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION!

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-02-15   14:11:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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