Clifton cop faces probe after brake-checking motorist (VIDEO)
A man identified as a Clifton resident posted the video of a cop brake-checking him to YouTube last week.
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Title: N.J. troopers arrest woman for remaining silent during traffic stop
Source:
NJ.com
URL Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-ar ... affic-stop-sues-143925452.html
Published: May 5, 2016
Author: S.P. Sullivan
Post Date: 2016-05-06 11:08:50 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 15658
Comments: 71
TRENTON — Two New Jersey state troopers cuffed a woman along a Warren County roadway and hauled her in on an obstruction charge because she refused to answer questions during a routine traffic stop, according to dashboard camera footage obtained by NJ Advance Media. The Oct. 16 incident, which happened near the New Jersey-Pennsylvania border on Route 519, is now the subject of a federal civil rights lawsuit filed by the woman, Rebecca Musarra, an attorney from Philadelphia. Musarra claims in the suit the troopers violated basic rules familiar to anybody who's ever watched a police show on TV, including the right to remain silent. She claims at least three troopers insisted during the ordeal that her refusal to answer questions was a criminal act. Spokesmen for the State Police and the Attorney General's Office, which is representing the troopers in the lawsuit, declined to comment on the allegations. But, State Police spokesman Capt. Stephen Jones said in an e-mail, "in every instance where misconduct is alleged against a trooper or troopers, as is the case here, (the division's internal affairs office) will review the allegations and investigate the facts. "In the event that problems are identified, training and/or disciplinary measures are implemented where appropriate." Attorneys for the state have sought in federal filings to have the civil case dismissed, claiming the troopers "acted in good faith and without fraud or malice." They have not yet addressed the specific charges in court papers. NJ Advance Media obtained the footage, along with a dispatch log from that evening, through an Open Public Records Act request filed in April. The documents show Trooper Matthew Stazzone pulled Musarra over just before 9:30 p.m., suspecting her of speeding. He was quickly joined by a second trooper, Demetric Gosa, records show. The dashboard camera footage shows Stazzone approached the vehicle on the passenger side and asked Musarra for her license, registration and insurance. "While you're looking for that, do you know why you're being pulled over tonight?" the trooper asked her, according to the tape. She claims she provided the documents but didn't respond. After asking her several more times, Stazzone walked to the other side of her car, rapping on the window with his flashlight and again demanding a response. "You're going to be placed under arrest if you don't answer my questions," he told her. Musarra claims the force of the flashlight chipped her window. The footage shows she eventually told the trooper she was an attorney and that she did not have to answer questions. Stazzone then ordered her out of the vehicle. As the two troopers cuffed her and walked her toward a troop car, Musarra asked them, "Are you detaining me because I refused to speak?" "Yeah," Stazzone replied, according to the video. "Yeah, obstruction," Gosa added. The troopers placed her in the back of the car and Stazzone read Musarra her Miranda rights including "you have a right to remain silent" — before taking her to the nearby State Police barracks in Washington. State Police did not provide any video from inside the station in response to NJ Advance Media's records request. In her lawsuit, Musarra claims she was patted down twice and cuffed to a bench inside a holding cell. She also claims the troopers denied her request to call her parents, promising to call on her behalf but never doing so. She claims a supervisor, Trooper James Butler, later entered the cell to ask her what had happened. "I said, 'Well, the trooper arrested me for not answering his questions,'" Musarra told NJ Advance Media. "And the supervisor indicated (to me) that was obstruction." New Jersey's obstruction statute defines the criminal act as impeding law enforcement through "flight, intimidation, force, violence, or physical interference or obstacle, or by means of any independently unlawful act." Musarra said Butler then left to review the dashboard camera footage. After about 30 minutes, she claims, he returned and told her "a mistake was made, and to chalk it up to training, and that (Stazzone) was just a rookie." Both Stazzone and Gosa joined the division in 2014, public payroll records show. Reached by phone, Stazzone declined to comment. Gosa and Butler could not be reached. Musarra claims Butler then offered to get her car, which had been towed from the scene, out of impoundment for free as "a favor" and apologized for the incident. She was never formally charged with obstruction or issued a summons as a result of the stop, records show. The whole ordeal lasted about two hours. Musarra, a private attorney for a Delaware firm who sometimes represents immigrant children in legal matters pro bono, said she comes from "a law enforcement family." Her father is a former prosecutor in Warren County and her mother is a former probation officer, she said, and she understands "cops have a difficult job to do." But, she added, "there has to be some sort of accountability." "Who knows what will happen to the next person who comes down the road who decides they have these constitutional rights they want to assert?" Musarra said.
"What happens to them when they don't have the sort of privileges I have?"
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#1. To: Deckard (#0)
You can remain silent but the right to remain silent kicks in after you're arrested.
She acted properly and FULLY within her rights. The Supreme Court has declared that she has the RIGHT to remain silent. That right is absolute, and it is not "obstruction of justice" or "obstruction of the police" to refuse to speak, unless one has been granted immunity from prosecution. She is an attorney. She knows her rights and privileges as a citizen. She asserted them. The cops broke the law, and will now be held accountable. She was completely right, in every respect. And they were completely wrong, in every respect. They should have known that. "You have the right to remain silent" means just exactly that. It is a Constitutional right, and the Constitution supersedes ALL state, local, departmental and other procedures. It supersedes the police "right to feel safe". It is absolute, and the police break the law when they seek to punish it. She should sue for the lost time and the harassment, and for violation of her rights. The cops need to be taught, through disciplinary proceedings and lawsuits, that those words they pronounce: "You have the RIGHT to remain silent" actually means to them, the cops, that THEIR authority is at an end, and that if they seek to coerce speaking, that they are now the criminals, and they will be punished and help personally accountable. It is imperative that the cops be brought to heel, and it will probably take the legal profession to do it, for police are officers of the law, but attorneys are all officers of the court, and it is the court that sits in judgment OVER the law. The police answer to lawyers, and lawyers answer to judges. That is our system. The police seem to be acting more and more as a law unto themselves. More powerful people in the system: Attorneys and Judges, need to force them back into line through the force of law. The cops need to be brought to heel.
Let's test this in court.
Good for her! If you are not willing to stand up for your rights,you might as well not have them. In her case,I am sure the only reason she was released without additional charges like "suspicion of DUI/DUD's is because she is a lawyer licensed to practice law in NJ,and a member of a big firm. The cops knew anything they tried would come back on them. If she had been a waitress,they would have charged her with something else and then offered to drop the charges if she would sign off on not being mistreated. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Wrong once again. You have them all the time. That's why they are called "RIGHTS" instead of "privileges". BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Really? You do not have right to remain silent until you get arrested? What if you are mute? Or unable to speak out of fear?
All mutes in New Jersey are subject to arrest. "Or unable to speak out of fear?" If you're so fearful that you can't speak, you must have done something wrong. Therefore, you are subject to arrest.
Correction: You can remain silent but the right to remain silent is only protected after you're arrested.
The right exists. The duty to inform one of the right kicks in after the detention becomes custodial.
Correction: you've got it wrong. The duty to inform one of the right to remain silent kicks in when the detention becomes custodial.
True. But your right to remain silent is a protected right even if you're not informed.
That's completely wrong. And funny!
LOL!!! So everyone who's afraid is subject to arrest!! Good one! Surely you're being sarcastic! Not even you could be this stupid.
Wrong again. Any "rights" not protected are not rights. Okay? And the 5th Amendment says nothing about any requirement of arrest or detainment.
Not sure what you mean here - seems to me that many natural rights are not only not defended by government but are actively violated by government (e.g., the natural rights to grow, sell, buy, and use pot). A government strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them. Sure they are. They're unprotected rights. Otherwise, by protecting a right you're establishing that right. And our government doesn't establish rights.
The right to remain silent is protect from birth to death, except upon a grant of immunity. It is not the right to remain silent that is affected by providing, or failing to provide, Miranda warnings. The ability of the government to use anything said, as evidence against the speaker, is affected.
The government does not protect your right to grow pot. Because of that, the government may pass laws against the growing of pot. They did.
Miranda rights were created by the government.
Most states have laws that require you to identify yourself in certain situations. You can remain silent, but then you're going to jail until they can figure out who you are.
There are, in fact, actually different kinds of rights. Constitutionally protected rights: Rights protected by the Constitution, aka right to remain silent, freedom of speech, etc. Often these rights are spelled with a capital R. Statutory rights: These are rights not in the Constitution, but instead established by law. These rights can be created and removed by legislation. Natural rights: These are rights considered to be given by God, and not within the authority of any man to remove, at least unilaterally. The DoI mentions "Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" as rights endowed by our Creator. Some would say growing & using cannabis, or otherwise doing what we wish to our own bodies would fall into this category. Arguably these rights are highest of all as even Constitutionally protected rights can be removed via the Amendment process. Moral rights: The right to behave in a certain way in a context of moral justice. I.e. breaking into a neighbor's home to steal back something he stole from you, even if no other recourse is available. (Obviously this would almost always conflict any legal/statutory rights). In the context of this discussion, we're talking about the right to remain silent as a Constitutionally protected right.
She provided the required documents. She's not required to vocalize her identity or engage in conversation with a cop. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much I got pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt a few years back and when the female officer asked me that same question I replied : "I think that you are supposed to tell me why" She wasn't bothered at all by my answer and I later explained that I didn't want to incriminate myself if she was pulling me over for something else.
The woman in this case did ID herself. She handed her papers over to the police. They arrested her for not being conversational. If the facts are as mentioned above, she should win and the cops should get big time reprimanded.
The traffic stop is special in regard to that because everyone driving is required to have and be able to provide a valid drivers license and registration. From the story as written above its obvious he had no valid reason to arrest her. "Do you know why I pulled you over?" is a rhetorical question, not a serious one. I know its a standard question.
That's exactly why they ask that. They want the driver to incriminate themselves. It goes into their report and gets mentioned to the traffic judge as a confession of wrongdoing. Or at least it can be. I'm sure it's standard training for cops when they do routine traffic stops. Yes, the burden of proof is on the cop. Let them say why you were stopped, and don't affirm or deny anything they say you were doing. Even by denying it, you may inadvertently admit you were at the location where he thinks you did something wrong, and he may not even be sure he's got the right car. Unless you want to try to sweet talk your way into a warning, which, if you happen to be a hot blond bombshell, could have merit. But legally, there's no requirement to discuss anything.
The rights always existed, but most people were unaware of them. As a result of the court case by the same name, law enforcement is now required to tell you about these rights after your arrest and before they question you. You can then claim those rights or waive them.
That's way it turned out, yes. But her refusal to talk was suspicious. The cop thought so. So he played it safe and took her in. I don't understand the people who want to fuck with the cops. When they end up getting arrested, I'm sorry, they had it coming. No sympathy for them, even if they were in the right.
Seriously? What is "suspicious" about not wishing to have a conversation with a cop? I don't understand the people who want to fuck with the cops. Yet in this case, the woman was not "fucking with the cops". She did exactly what was legally required. No more - no less. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much Seriously? By the way, no one is talking about a "conversation" except you and your strawman buddy. She wouldn't say anything. That's odd. Especially when cooperation and being polite may get you out of a ticket.
Well, thank you for this refreshing blast of honesty.
The fact is, a cop's "hunch" is not and never has been recognized as legit probable cause to arrest people. Those cops who rely on the law for such decisions fair much better with community relations than do cops who consider themselves to be the law.
There's nothing "odd" about that. She identified herself - there is no requirement to talk to a cop. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much The Miranda Rule had no existence until the Supreme Court created it in Miranda v. Arizona. It is one example of the vast body of court made law. It operates as a sanction against government authorities rendering any information gained during an interrogation absent a warning in compliance with specific guidelines stated for the first time in the Miranda opinion, inadmissable against the accused. It created a rule of criminal procedure regarding admissibility which did not previously exist. Prior to the announcement of the rule in Miranda, no such rule existed. Under your interpretation, the right to Miranda warnings always existed, and could have been used to overturn every conviction wrongfully obtained through the use of statements obtained without a Miranda warning which nobody had ever heard of. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/384/436/ U.S. Supreme Court Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966) At 445: At 478-79: At 481:
You didn't read the decision, SFB. "The standard warning long given by Special Agents of the FBI to both suspects and persons under arrest is that the person has a right to say nothing and a right to counsel, and that any statement he does make may be used against him in court. Examples of this warning are to be found in the Westover case at 342 F.2d 684 (1965), and Jackson v. U.S., 337 F.2d 136 (1964), cert. den., 380 U.S. 935."
She should have said, "Oink, oink" and be done with it.
That's exactly why pointed questions are asked "do you know why I stopped you"? For oral admissions. It's Vehicle & Traffic Stop 101 I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Put her in the patrol car with the heavy duty suspension.
Now there's one who can say "Oink, oink" and get away with it.
Fred's looking for his hand lotion.
Comments (41 - 71) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest"including the right to remain silent ..."
#2. To: Deckard (#0)
#3. To: misterwhite (#1)
You can remain silent but the right to remain silent kicks in after you're arrested.
#4. To: Deckard, *Crime and Corruption* (#0)
#5. To: misterwhite (#1)
You can remain silent but the right to remain silent kicks in after you're arrested.
#6. To: misterwhite (#1)
You can remain silent but the right to remain silent kicks in after you're arrested.
#7. To: A Pole (#6)
"What if you are mute?"
#8. To: All (#1)
You can remain silent but the right to remain silent kicks in after you're arrested.
#9. To: misterwhite, Deckard (#1)
You can remain silent but the right to remain silent kicks in after you're arrested.
#10. To: misterwhite (#8)
Correction: You can remain silent but the right to remain silent is only protected after you're arrested.
#11. To: nolu chan (#10)
"The duty to inform one of the right to remain silent kicks in when the detention becomes custodial."
#12. To: misterwhite (#1)
You can remain silent but the right to remain silent kicks in after you're arrested.
#13. To: misterwhite (#7)
If you're so fearful that you can't speak, you must have done something wrong. Therefore, you are subject to arrest.
#14. To: misterwhite (#8)
Correction: You can remain silent but the right to remain silent is only protected after you're arrested.
#15. To: Pinguinite (#14)
Any "rights" not protected are not rights.
#16. To: Pinguinite (#14)
"Any "rights" not protected are not rights. Okay? "
#17. To: misterwhite (#11)
But your right to remain silent is a protected right even if you're not informed.
#18. To: ConservingFreedom (#15)
"seems to me that many natural rights are not only not defended by government but are actively violated by government (e.g., the natural rights to grow, sell, buy, and use pot)."
#19. To: misterwhite, Pinguinite (#16)
And our government doesn't establish rights.
#20. To: nolu chan (#17)
"The right to remain silent is protect from birth to death, except upon a grant of immunity."
#21. To: ConservingFreedom (#15)
Not sure what you mean here - seems to me that many natural rights are not only not defended by government but are actively violated by government (e.g., the natural rights to grow, sell, buy, and use pot).
#22. To: misterwhite (#20)
Most states have laws that require you to identify yourself in certain situations.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#23. To: Deckard (#0)
"While you're looking for that, do you know why you're being pulled over tonight?" the trooper asked her, according to the tape. She claims she provided the documents but didn't respond.
#24. To: misterwhite (#20)
Most states have laws that require you to identify yourself in certain situations. You can remain silent, but then you're going to jail until they can figure out who you are.
#25. To: misterwhite, nolu chan (#20)
Most states have laws that require you to identify yourself in certain situations. You can remain silent, but then you're going to jail until they can figure out who you are
#26. To: TrappedInMd (#23)
She wasn't bothered at all by my answer and I later explained that I didn't want to incriminate myself if she was pulling me over for something else.
#27. To: nolu chan (#19)
"Miranda rights were created by the government."
#28. To: TrappedInMd (#25)
"From the story as written above its obvious he had no valid reason to arrest her."
#29. To: misterwhite (#28)
But her refusal to talk was suspicious. The cop thought so.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#30. To: Deckard (#29)
"What is "suspicious" about not wishing to have a conversation with a cop?"
#31. To: misterwhite (#28)
When they end up getting arrested, I'm sorry, they had it coming. No sympathy for them, even if they were in the right.
#32. To: misterwhite (#30)
She wouldn't say anything. That's odd. Especially when cooperation and being polite may get you out of a ticket.
#33. To: misterwhite (#30)
She wouldn't say anything. That's odd.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#34. To: misterwhite (#27)
The rights always existed, but most people were unaware of them.
The constitutional issue we decide in each of these cases is the admissibility of statements obtained from a defendant questioned while in custody or otherwise deprived of his freedom of action in any significant way. In each, the defendant was questioned by police officers, detectives, or a prosecuting attorney in a room in which he was cut off from the outside world. In none of these cases was the defendant given a full and effective warning of his rights at the outset of the interrogation process. In all the cases, the questioning elicited oral admissions, and in three of them, signed statements as well which were admitted at their trials. They all thus share salient features -- incommunicado interrogation of individuals in a police-dominated atmosphere, resulting in self-incriminating statements without full warnings of constitutional rights.
To summarize, we hold that, when an individual is taken into custody or otherwise deprived of his freedom by the authorities in any significant way and is subjected to questioning, the privilege against self-incrimination is jeopardized. Procedural safeguards must be employed to protect the privilege, and unless other fully effective means are adopted to notify the person of his right of silence and to assure that the exercise of the right will be scrupulously honored, the following measures are required. He must be warned prior to any questioning that he has the right to remain silent, that anything he says can be used against him in a court of law, that he has the right to the presence of an attorney, and that, if he cannot afford an attorney one will be appointed for him prior to any questioning if he so desires. Opportunity to exercise these rights must be afforded to him throughout the interrogation. After such warnings have been given, and such opportunity afforded him, the individual may knowingly and intelligently waive these rights and agree to answer questions or make a statement. But unless and until such warnings and waiver are demonstrated by the prosecution at trial, no evidence obtained as a result of interrogation can be used against him.
In announcing these principles, we are not unmindful of the burdens which law enforcement officials must bear, often under trying circumstances. We also fully recognize the obligation of all citizens to aid in enforcing the criminal laws. This Court, while protecting individual rights, has always given ample latitude to law enforcement agencies in the legitimate exercise of their duties. The limits we have placed on the interrogation process should not constitute an undue interference with a proper system of law enforcement. As we have noted, our decision does not in any way preclude police from carrying out their traditional investigatory functions. Although confessions may play an important role in some convictions, the cases before us present graphic examples of the overstatement of the "need" for confessions. In each case, authorities conducted interrogations ranging up to five days in duration despite the presence, through standard investigating practices, of considerable evidence against each defendant.
#35. To: nolu chan (#34)
The Miranda Rule had no existence until the Supreme Court created it in Miranda v. Arizona.
#36. To: misterwhite (#28)
But her refusal to talk was suspicious.
#37. To: TrappedInMd (#23)
She wasn't bothered at all by my answer and I later explained that I didn't want to incriminate myself if she was pulling me over for something else.
#38. To: Fred Mertz (#36)
She should have said, "Oink, oink" and be done with it.
#39. To: Roscoe (#38)
#40. To: misterwhite (#39)
Now there's one who can say "Oink, oink" and get away with it.
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