politics and politicians
See other politics and politicians Articles
Title: Trump: If abortion is banned, there has to be some form of punishment for women who do it
Source:
HotAir
URL Source: http://hotair.com/archives/2016/03/ ... unishment-for-women-who-do-it/
Published: Mar 30, 2016
Author: Allahpundit
Post Date: 2016-03-30 17:16:58 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 41125
Comments: 274
Charles Cooke calls this an ideological Turing test, i.e. a question whose answer reveals how plausible it is that Trump really is who he claims to be. The standard answer from nearly all serious pro-lifers is that it’s the abortionist, not his patient, who should be sanctioned if and when abortion is banned. The March of Life explains why: Ted Cruz, when he’s inevitably asked about this now, will give some variation of that same response. Trump, whom his conservative critics suspect of being an opportunist on abortion rather than committed to the cause, went a different route. You can almost see the wheels turning in his head here: He knows, as a political matter, that he can’t let Cruz get to his right on abortion. Republicans will let him slide on a lot — a lot — but if he gives them reason to think he’s BSing them on an issue at the very core of social conservatism, it could give Cruz the break he needs to take off. And so, when he gets the question from Matthews about what to do with women who insist on having abortions in a hypothetical future where the practice is banned, he goes with his gut — and his gut is “stay to the right.” So … sure, let’s punish women for abortion. This is the message the party’s carrying into the general election against the first woman major-party nominee, huh? By a guy who’s already having major problems polling among women, no less. It’s easy to understand how an amateur would stumble into this answer, writes Matt Lewis, but why would you want to nominate an amateur? Yet these political compromises are necessary in order to cobble together a palatable and defensible (if admittedly inconsistent) public policy position that might someday actually be able to win the argument in mainstream America. Part of the goal is to remove the ability for pro-choicers to demagogue the issue by scaring vulnerable women. Now, thanks to Trump, that’s back on the table. Trump’s already trying to walk it back even though the townhall with Matthews from which this was clipped hasn’t aired yet: — Sarah McCammon NPR (@sarahmccammon) March 30, 2016 Hillary’s already attacking him over it. So is Team Cruz, as you’ll see in the second clip below. Trump can run from it but it’s on tape and every down-ballot Republican will wear it now if he’s the nominee. And the best part, as one Twitter pal said, is that Trump will eventually (“eventually” as in “probably within the next few hours”) deny that he ever said it to begin with. Still think this is all part of a master strategy or could it be that he really is winging it? — The Lead CNN (@TheLeadCNN) March 30, 2016 Poster Comment: This will keep Vannity and Coulter and the other Mini-Me's busy Trumpsplaining it away for the next few days. “Mr. Trump’s comment today is completely out of touch with the pro-life movement and even more with women who have chosen such a sad thing as abortion,” said Jeanne Mancini, President of the March for Life Education and Defense Fund. “Being pro-life means wanting what is best for the mother and the baby. Women who choose abortion often do so in desperation and then deeply regret such a decision. No pro-lifer would ever want to punish a woman who has chosen abortion. This is against the very nature of what we are about. We invite a woman who has gone down this route to consider paths to healing, not punishment.” In truth, like the notion that there should be exceptions for rape and incest, the notion that only the abortion doctor (not the woman having the abortion) should face penalties, is inconsistent with the notion that “abortion is murder.” #Trump campaign issues brief statement on #abortion: pic.twitter.com/jJFhzmHP5W Cruz campaign: Cruz focuses on punishing those who perform abortions, not women who get them https://t.co/GRrUbWpzGE https://t.co/7am5Tcd7AG The next Trump scandal.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-159) not displayed.
.
.
.
#160. To: misterwhite (#147)
and if Trump had a well thought out answer he could've easily deflected the question. As an example . Roe v Wade created a national right out of thin air . Had there been no Roe v Wade then it would go back to the way it was before 1973 ;with some states having legal abortion and some states prohibiting the practice . A perfectly good conservative response would've been to say he wanted it pre- Roe when the states had the power to make the law. Or as I said , he could've turned the question on Matthews and accused him of being a pro-eugenics racist progressive. Trump's answer played right into the stereotype that the libs have of conservatives ....that they are incompassionate women haters . "If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato
Is the court about to hear another abortion case? In the next 50 years? Does the President appoint Supreme Court justices? You're ignorant.
His answer was fine. Ted Cruz is not pro life. He has the same position as Hillary. Well if you and your ilk get their way we will have Hillary.
This session in fact.
I talk until they flee and don't want to talk anymore. I used to Mormon-proof people's houses for them that way. I know they have a database because once they met up with me, they never came back. I liked to work the younger missionary with innocent questions while fending off the older handler missionary who would inevitably want to flee before I caused his young dupe to start thinking for himself. The young JW yesterday, a very nice kid, started looking very thoughtful when I began discussing the history of the Bible and its central role in history. You probably can see why that isn't such a friendly topic for the senior JW. Still, they were nice people. I felt more sorry for the JWs than I ever did with Mormons. JWs are much more cultish IMO so their missionaries are victims, especially the younger ones.
Does he nominate them? Does the Senate ever appoint justices the President didn't nominate? You try to deceive - but luckily for decent people, you're not smart enough to do it well.
Texas is trying to regulate abortion clinics out of existence. Hardly Roe v Wade.
He sure does. Doesn't mean Congress will approve. "Does the Senate ever appoint justices the President didn't nominate?" Nope. But I bet they tell the President, "You nominate this guy and we'll approve".
Wrong. Clinton (https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/womens-rights-and- opportunity/): 'Women’s personal health decisions should be made by a woman, her family, and her faith, with the counsel of her doctor. Hillary will stand up to Republican attempts to defund Planned Parenthood, which would restrict access to critical health care services, like cancer screenings, contraception, and safe, legal abortion.' Cruz (theiowarepublican.com/201...t-defend-the-sanctity- of-every-life/ ): 'The question of abortion should not be an issue of partisan politics, or even of differing faith backgrounds. It is a fundamental question of justice, and of whether we still hold true those immortal words of our founders — that we are “endowed” by our “Creator with certain unalienable Rights,” the first of which is life. 'Abortion is the stain on our nation’s modern history. We should end it. [...] 'As Solicitor General of Texas, I was proud to successfully defend a federal law that bans partial birth abortion and to lead 18 states in defending New Hampshire’s parental notifications laws, both cases that we successfully won at the Supreme Court, marking two significant victories for life. While neither of these measures remove the scourge of abortion entirely, they continue shine the light on the atrocity and move us closer to doing so. 'During my time in the Senate, I have continued to fight for life. I am an original cosponsor of the Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, to ban abortions after 20 weeks. I introduced a measure to stop the D.C. Council from forcing organizations to fund abortion services. And when Texas State Senator Wendy Davis and an army of abortion advocates tried to squelch legislation designed to protect the unborn, I proudly stood with the vast majority of Texans to protect the rights of the unborn.'
I used to work for an atheist. We were working on his fathers rental property next to his dentists office. Some JW's came to the door. I was feeling mischievous so I told them it wasn't my house but to come in ant talk to the owner. He got kind of mad that I let them in to bug him. :)
Does mean the open seat makes it a significant issue in 2016.
Ted Cruz thinks women should be able to get abortions and not face any penalty. Same position as Hillary. He puts a lot of lawyer lying in his words. Hillary is more direct. 0 = 0. As in no birth no consequences. Don't lie to yourself. Be honest.
Same position as Hillary. Ted Cruz thinks abortionists should not be able to perform abortions and not face any penalty. Not the same position as Hillary.
Of course. But more than just the President decides who sits there. Ask Obama about that.
Not the same position as Hillary. Pretty much the same. WHere did Cruz say he would punish the abortionist? I don't think he ever said that. Show me please.
Of course. The we agree with respect to the only issue in contention in post #150.
I have no idea what that means. There is an open Supreme Court seat. The next President will nominate someone. That individual's stance on abortion is important. So is their position on guns. Drugs. Gay rights. Religious freedom. Privacy and NSA. Environmental issues. Healthcare. Tariffs. And 100 other things. Are you turning this nomination into a single-issue event?
Polls already show Trump with a 74% disapproval rating among all women. Seems he isolated both the pro-life and pro-abortion lot. For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)
Cruz cospnsored (thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D? d114:62:./temp/~bdxnpM:@@@P ) the federal Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act (2015), which provided that "Whoever violates subsection (a) shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both." (thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c114:S.1553:) Cruz supported (www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=35) Texas Senate Bill 1 (2013), which provided that "The Texas Medical Board may take disciplinary action under Chapter 164, Occupations Code, or assess an administrative penalty under Subchapter A, Chapter 165, Occupations Code, against a person who" performs a partial-birth abortion. (https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB1/2013/X2)
That's what it means. Glad you finally caught on.
Wow a fine for murder or 5 years. Is that the same position he has for murdering someone outside the womb? I don't think so. That tells me he puts less respect for the innocent then a person outside the womb. He must think less of them.
Is that the same position he has for murdering someone outside the womb? I don't think so. That tells me he puts less respect for the innocent then a person outside the womb. It tells rational people that Cruz has the sense to not make the best the enemy of the good. And that his position is very much not "the same position as Hillary."
says love If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
What shocks me is how many people here at LF just don't get what it was that Trump said. People in the pro-life movement have spent decades and tens of millions of dollars trying to counter the Lefty propaganda against us over the decades. And here comes Trump, like a turd floating in a punch bowl, and shoots his big flapping mouth off, handing the enemy a major propaganda victory. You can just imagine how much Chrissy's leg is tingling to have tripped Trump up so easily.
You pro-aborts hate feticide laws.
The discussion is in the context IF Roe were to be overturned, and IF abortion were legally defined as the crime of murder (or infanticide), under that circumstance, should abortion be punished? In other words, if an act is legally defined as murder, should it be punished? [...] MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle? TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. MATTHEWS: For the woman? TRUMP: Yes, there has to be some form.
I've known TCs posting history for about 6 years. He is not pro abort. Far from it. His point has been the pro life movement focuses on laws to protect the child in the womb. They take aim at abortion providers as well. They don't focus on prosecuting women who had an abortion probably because half the women in the pro life movement are repentant of their own abortions. I stated Trump was logically and legally accurate in his original comments. However it is hard to broad brush all women who have abortions as premeditated murderers. Many end up getting abortions after someone else convinces them it is ok and the human being in the womb is not a human yet or a person. Which is deception. The reason the pro life movement focuses on abortionists to legislate laws is if the penalty for providing an illegal abortion is iron clad homicide, no doctor in their right mind will perform the abortion. Eliminate the provider and you leave a woman a real difficult decision to abort on her own which already violates standing fetal homicide laws. For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)
What if someone convinces someone that a black isn't a person. They are a savage. Suppose they are a real dummy. Suppose that person kills a black person. That isn't murder is it? Of course it is. Just like in all abortions. They are all murders. There is no excuse for it. I think I am being consistent and some others are not. You said no doctor in their right mind wouldn't provide an abortion if the penalty was high. Well how about this. No woman in their right mind would have an abortion if they were going to face execution or some other harsh penalty. So if the penalty was death. You wouldn't really have to carry it out because as in the case you made no woman would have one. What if they just make it illegal for the woman and not the provider. That would have the same affect correct? I don't think so.
He talks a good game sometimes. But he exposed himself as being pro choice. The woman has a choice with no consequences. By logical extension that means he would be ok with abortion drugs someone could take themselves. Murder is murder ask God.
Helping to facilitate abortions. Just as TC wants.
You're just Trumpsplaining with text styles. Trump said women should be punished for abortion. That's all anyone is going to hear, no matter how you want to twist it. The pro-abortion pols and orgs and media are already playing it exactly that way. They pounced within hours of Trump saying it. I guess you can always just pretend Trump didn't say it.
Yes you are aren't you. At least you admit you are pro abortion instead of lying about it like you have been doing.
Actually, it is Trump who has exposed himself as having a pro-choice worldview, with his Lefty talk of punishing women for abortion and the return of back-alley abortions. That is exactly how liberal New Yorkers talk about it, how all the liberals have talked about it for forty years. Your problem is your candidate, not me. And it doesn't matter how many libels about me you make up out of thin air to try to distract the 20 or so posters here at tiny LF. The Donald's problem isn't people at LF (none of which are women, BTW).
That's Trump, unifying the nation. He's similarly unified the votes of the 20-somethings, the Hispanics, most of the indy voters and half the GOP voters.
I'm just splaining from the actual transcript, link included.
He'll cut his membership in half to spite his nose. Yeah, it seems they want an echo chamber.
Moderator X is hacking Stone's list as we chit-chat. All will be well, soon.
I'm glad to see that you're still pinging sneakypete.
It is not a trick question, no matter how many times you bold or italicize or underline various portions. If abortion is a crime or if abortion is murder, the law does have to mete out consequences for breaking those laws. If you listen closely, Matthews says, "Ten years or ten cents or what?" by which he meant would it be fines or jail time. Then Trump fell into his trap as Matthews said "For the woman?". And the trap snapped shut. You really should consider why you're supporting a candidate that can be so easily tricked by Tingly Chris because he isn't that smart. Chrissy led him like a lamb to slaughter while deflecting Trump's jabs that Chrissy was a bad Catholic.
For what little my opinion is worth, Pete is one of LF's finest posters.
Comments (201 - 274) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestChris Matthews was looking for a gotcha moment.
#161. To: TooConservative (#150)
"An open seat on the Supreme Court and it just "is not a burning issue in 2016"?"
#162. To: tomder55 (#160)
and if Trump had a well thought out answer he could've easily deflected the question.
#163. To: misterwhite (#161)
Is the court about to hear another abortion case? In the next 50 years?
#164. To: A K A Stone (#159)
I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses knock on my door.
#165. To: misterwhite, TooConservative (#161)
Does the President appoint Supreme Court justices?
You're ignorant.
#166. To: A K A Stone (#163)
"This session in fact."
#167. To: ConservingFreedom (#165)
"Does he nominate them?"
#168. To: A K A Stone (#162)
Ted Cruz is not pro life. He has the same position as Hillary.
#169. To: TooConservative (#164)
Is the court about to hear another abortion case? In the next 50 years?
#170. To: misterwhite (#167)
He sure does. Doesn't mean Congress will approve.
#171. To: ConservingFreedom (#168)
Ted Cruz is not pro life. He has the same position as Hillary. Wrong.
#172. To: A K A Stone (#171)
Ted Cruz thinks women should be able to get abortions and not face any penalty.
#173. To: ConservingFreedom (#170)
"Does mean the open seat makes it a significant issue in 2016."
#174. To: ConservingFreedom (#172)
Ted Cruz thinks abortionists should not be able to perform abortions and not face any penalty.
#175. To: misterwhite (#173)
"Does mean the open seat makes it a significant issue in 2016."
#176. To: ConservingFreedom (#175)
"The we agree with respect to the only issue in contention in post #150."
#177. To: TooConservative (#102)
We'll see if Trump did offend them deeply. It won't take long for the polls to show it.
#178. To: A K A Stone (#174)
WHere did Cruz say he would punish the abortionist?
#179. To: misterwhite (#176)
There is an open Supreme Court seat. The next President will nominate someone. That individual's stance on abortion is important.
#180. To: ConservingFreedom (#178)
#181. To: A K A Stone (#180)
Wow a fine for murder or 5 years.
#182. To: TooConservative (#28)
certainly are some assholes
the
tape
worm
boris
#183. To: redleghunter (#177)
Polls already show Trump with a 74% disapproval rating among all women. Seems he isolated both the pro-life and pro-abortion lot.
#184. To: TooConservative (#183)
#185. To: A K A Stone, TooConservative (#12)
Hiring someone to kill your kid is murder you fucking pro abort dumb ass.
MATTHEWS: If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under law. Should abortion be punished?
#186. To: Roscoe (#184)
#187. To: redleghunter (#186)
(Edited)
I stated Trump was logically and legally accurate in his original comments. However it is hard to broad brush all women who have abortions as premeditated murderers. Many end up getting abortions after someone else convinces them it is ok and the human being in the womb is not a human yet or a person. Which is deception.
#188. To: redleghunter (#186)
I've known TCs posting history for about 6 years. He is not pro abort. Far from it.
#189. To: A K A Stone (#188)
The woman has a choice with no consequences.
#190. To: nolu chan (#185)
The discussion is in the context IF Roe were to be overturned, and IF abortion were legally defined as the crime of murder (or infanticide), under that circumstance, should abortion be punished?
#191. To: TooConservative (#190)
The pro-abortion pols and orgs and media are already playing it exactly that way.
#192. To: A K A Stone (#188)
But he exposed himself as being pro choice.
#193. To: redleghunter (#177)
Polls already show Trump with a 74% disapproval rating among all women.
#194. To: TooConservative (#192)
#195. To: TooConservative (#190)
You're just Trumpsplaining with text styles.
MATTHEWS: If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under law. Should abortion be punished?
#196. To: Fred Mertz (#194)
Pebbles is cursing at you. Sure sign that you're on the banning target list.
#197. To: Fred Mertz, TooConservative, sneakypete, Moderator X, A K A Stone (#194)
Pebbles is cursing at you [TooConservative]. Sure sign that you're on the banning target list.
#198. To: Stoner, sneakypete, buckeroo, A K A Stone, TooConservative, hondo68, Deckard (#197)
#199. To: nolu chan (#195)
MATTHEWS: If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under law. Should abortion be punished?
#200. To: Fred Mertz, sneakypete (#198)
(Edited)
.
.
.
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]