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Title: Putin: Russia will not tolerate such crimes as attack against its Sukhoi-24 plane
Source:
Tass
URL Source: http://tass.ru/en/politics/838825un
Published: Nov 24, 2015
Author: Uncredited
Post Date: 2015-11-24 08:28:10 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 10721
Comments: 72
According to the president, the attack against Su-24 plane in Syria goes beyond normal struggle against terrorism, and it is "a stab in Russia’s back" delivered by "terrorism accomplices" SOCHI, November 24. /TASS/. Russia's Sukhoi Su-24 attack aircraft was downed with an air-to-air missile launched from a Turkish F-16 fighter, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday. The Russian leader stressed that the Russian Su-24 fighter-bomber was posing no threat to Turkey. "Anyway, our pilots and jet posed no threat to the Turkish Republic. This is obvious. They were conducting an operation against ISIL," Putin said at the meeting with King Abdallah II of Jordan. Putin called the attack a crime and stressed that Russia would not tolerate it. According to the president, the Su-24 plane crash in Syria goes beyond normal struggle against terrorism, and it is "a stab in Russia’s back delivered by terrorist accomplices." "Today’s loss is linked with a stab in our back delivered by terrorism accomplices. I can’t characterize otherwise what has happened today," the Russian leader said. The Russian bomber was shot down over Syria by an air-to-air surface fired from a Turkish F-16 plane when the bomber was at an altitude of 6,000 meters at a distance of 1 km from the Turkish bomber." Putin said. The president said the attack on the Russian jet will have tragic consequences to Russia-Turkey ties. Turkey's military attache in Russia has been summoned to the Russian Defense Ministry. 
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 33.
#1. To: cranky, redleghunter, tomder55, sneakypete, Pericles (#0)
Turkey's military attache in Russia has been summoned to the Russian Defense Ministry. NATO's members have also summoned the Turks. I would guess they have some very pointed questions and will demand more evidence than just allegations by Turkey. It was unwise to extend NATO membership to Turkey to begin with. As members, if they start a war with Russia by shooting down their warplanes who did not attack anything or anyone in Turkey, NATO will still be obligated by Article Five to follow Turkey into warfare with Russia. I'm thinking NATO will make it clear they are not starting WW III with Russia even if a Russian plane strayed over the Turkish border, considering that no Turks or Turkish territory was attacked. There is a proportionality to any response.
Not exactly. Rather, Turkey can invoke Article V, and that obliges the NATO governments to MEET, to DISCUSS what to do. The invocation of Article V does not act as a declaration of war for all of NATO. It acts as a trumpet to call a meeting. The parties to the treaty are bound, in theory, by the results of the meeting. So, Turkey invokes Article V. NATO chiefs meet. The French say "Are you out of your MINDS?" The Greeks say "The Russians are our friends." The Spanish say: "We have no money for such an adventure", to which the Portuguese add "...nor any interest in it." The British say "We're with the French on this one" (and the Eurosceptics say "See! Europe is going to drag us into some crazy war!" The Canadians say "We're with the British." Obama says "Wake me up when November ends." And like the cheese, the Turks stand alone, the Turks stand alone (Hi Ho the dairy-o, the Turks stand alone...) No war.
As with Russia summoning Turkey's military attache, I think NATO summoned the Turks. Not the other way around. I think you are right that the EU won't be interested since Russia did not attack Turks or Turkish territory.
In fact, Turkey attacked Russia, shooting down a Russian plane in Syrian airspace, where it was operating at the invitation of the Syrian government. Turkey has no excuse here whatever. And after the bit about booing the moment of silence for France, and all of the strident Islamism, the Turks should not expect to be given the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, they are Muslims, eager to wriggle out from under the sensible secular straightjacket that Ataturk gave them, and slide back down the poopchute into the general Islamic cesspool. They should never be allowed into the EU, and nobody should expect anything good out of them. And they ought to lose the piece of Turkey that is Kurdish, and the piece of Turkey that was Armenia, because they got that land through genocide. Nations that gain land that way should, when they weaken later, suffer the humiliation of the partial dismemberment of their empire, just to rub their faces in the loss. It was very important that the very first piece of the British Empire to be lost in contemporary times was Ireland. It is very important that India left on its own terms.
The Turks are claiming some evidence that the Russian plane initially overflew Turkey as they issued warnings. That was the time when Turkey should have shot it down. Not over Syria where they have no right to fire, especially since the plane did not attack Turkey itself. I would guess NATO/EU is having exactly these discussions right now and perusing the claimed Turkish "evidence". OTOH, Russia should be much more careful about any strikes so close to Turkey's border. So I am not exactly brimming with sympathy for them either.
That was the time when Turkey should have shot it down. Not even then. Turkey is not at war with Russia or Syria...the only two nations that would have military aircraft near that portion of the border. And IS (AFAWK) does not have aircraft. So the right thing to do is show restraint and send up a couple of jets to get a visual and go on international channel and give a warning.
Putin could reignite the Cyprus Missile Crisis. Cyprus climbed down in the first one, but now Russia is stronger, and looking for payback. Cyprus wanted the S-300 in the first place due to constant Turkish overflights. This time Russia can sell the S-300's, and send in troops to defend the batteries. The Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus is not recognized by her NATO partners, and should be outside the scope of the agreement. Turkey has been very perfidious, I'd love to see Putin get some payback. My concern is that we do not end up having to cash the checks that the Turkish mouth has been writing. Moving the dispute to Cyprus gets us off the hook legally.
My concern is that Obama, hellbent on protecting the Muslims and blocking the Russians, put the Turks up to this. Turkey just hosing off missiles at a Russian jet? No. It does not compute. That's the problem here. The US is absolutely determined NOT to see Russia regularize its situation with Europe. Yes, this is a flat out conspiracy theory. Of course I have no proof. And I'm glad for that too, because if I DID have the proof, and posted this, you would never hear from me again. Instead, now I'm just another Internet crank conspiracy theorist. But yes, this feels very much like a US operation.
Russians will not back off. They see it as a matter of national survival for them. They will go all the way as they have nothing to lose. They feel pushed into a corner, and they rather perish than end up like Serbia did.
There are no replies to Comment # 33. End Trace Mode for Comment # 33.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest The president said the attack on the Russian jet will have tragic consequences to Russia-Turkey ties.
#3. To: TooConservative (#1)
(Edited)
NATO will still be obligated by Article Five to follow Turkey into warfare with Russia.
#9. To: Vicomte13 (#3)
So, Turkey invokes Article V. NATO chiefs meet. The French say "Are you out of your MINDS?" The Greeks say "The Russians are our friends." The Spanish say: "We have no money for such an adventure", to which the Portuguese add "...nor any interest in it." The British say "We're with the French on this one" (and the Eurosceptics say "See! Europe is going to drag us into some crazy war!" The Canadians say "We're with the British." Obama says "Wake me up when November ends."
#11. To: TooConservative (#9)
#12. To: Vicomte13 (#11)
In fact, Turkey attacked Russia, shooting down a Russian plane in Syrian airspace, where it was operating at the invitation of the Syrian government.
#25. To: TooConservative (#12)
The Turks are claiming some evidence that the Russian plane initially overflew Turkey as they issued warnings.
#28. To: redleghunter (#25)
So the right thing to do is show restraint and send up a couple of jets to get a visual and go on international channel and give a warning.
#29. To: nativist nationalist (#28)
(Edited)
#33. To: Vicomte13 (#29)
(Edited)
The US is absolutely determined NOT to see Russia ...
Replies to Comment # 33.
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