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Title: Bush Says No National Right to Gun Ownership?
Source:
The Shooters Log
URL Source: http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/jeb ... snonationalrighttogunownership
Published: Nov 15, 2015
Author: Dave Dolbee
Post Date: 2015-11-15 17:52:30 by Don
Keywords: None
Views: 24746
Comments: 205
Bush Says No National Right to Gun Ownership? By Dave Dolbee published on November 10, 2015 in News Jeb Bush recently made an appearance on the The Late Show with Stephen Colbert when the subject of whether there is a national right to gun ownership came up. Bush’s answer may be concerning to many, but let’s reserve judgment until we look at the entire story. However, whether his answer was his true opinion or a gaff, is concerning. During the interview, Colbert asked a written-in question regarding the Constitution and whether it implied a national right to gun ownership. Jeb Bush, a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment, veered a bit off course when his answer drifted to the Tenth Amendment and a state’s right to legislate gun ownership. The question was a bit of a gotcha and certainly anti-Second Amendment in its nature. Jeb handled it well talking about how Florida was a pro-Second Amendment state under his leadership and to keep the guns out of hands of criminals or the mentally ill, they had background checks. He went on to say the common root of mass shootings was almost always proven to be mental illness. However, it was in the follow-up question that Jeb might have taken a left turn. Second Amendment Stephen Colbert: Well, the right to have an individual firearm to protect yourself is a national document, in the Constitution, so shouldn’t the way that is also be applied be national? Jeb Bush: No. Not necessarily… There’s a Tenth Amendment to our country, the Bill of Rights has a Tenth Amendment that powers are given to the states to create policy, and the federal government is not the end all and be all. That’s an important value for this country, and it’s an important federalist system that works quite well. On the face, that is pretty damning to the argument of whether the Second Amendment is a right or privilege. Jeb’s campaign quickly got out in front of the issue with a clarification. The clarification reiterated that Jeb is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. Jeb’s argument was that states should be able to use the Tenth Amendment to pass laws that expand gun rights—but that is double-edged sword. Governor Bush is a strong Second Amendment advocate and reiterated his view that the federal government should not be passing new gun control laws. He believes in states rights and as Governor of Florida, he used the Tenth Amendment to expand gun rights with a “Six Pack of Freedom” bill and received an A+ rating from the NRA. A Double-Edged Sword… While I like the federal government not being able to limit my rights, I do not favor a state being able to limit my rights. One of my degrees is in political science and I have taken more than a couple of classes on the Constitution and Constitutional law. That being said, I am far from a Constitutional scholar. However, I believe I understand a bit of where Jeb was trying to get to. The states are supposed to have as much power as the federal government—this is the heart of the federal system. According to the Tenth Amendment, the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the United States Constitution. All remaining powers are reserved for the states or the people. So, how can using the Tenth Amendment to give states’ rights allow those same states to regulate the Second Amendment? Isn’t that the purpose of the Bill of Rights? Doesn’t the Bill of Rights grant you and me specific rights that shall not be infringed? Do states have the power to expand or limit freedom of speech or unlawful search or seizure? Both the federal government and the state must respect the Bill of Rights. In hindsight, like I have already stated, I can see where he was trying to go with his argument. The court has allowed the states some latitude to pass and enforce certain laws regulating firearms. At that point, the common belief that the Second Amendment is an absolute right is moot. Perhaps the best way to expand our Second Amendment rights is through the states. It is not perfect, but there is less risk of an all out gun ban that way. You’ll have to decide for yourself what Jeb really meant. In the end, we all wish Jeb had said the Second Amendment is a Constitutional right and neither a federal nor a state government has the power to limit that right. Whether or not he could have backed that up in front of the Supreme Court, is the attitude most, if not all, of us would like him to have taken. I am sure most of you have already picked out your preferred candidate. I am not trying to sway your opinion toward or against any particular candidate or party. However, on the subject of the Second Amendment and gun rights, where does the state under the Tenth Amendment or the federal government’s authority end? Where should it end? Share your answers or opinions regarding Jeb’s answer of the Tenth Amendment in the comment section. Share This!
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#1. To: Don (#0)
Bush's are toast. They will never hold a real office again. If they keep going with all their stupid comments they will end it for their children as well.
Trump is much better than Jeb.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
Jes Jeb Bush has a true opinion great pity the courts don't agree with him
Absolutely true; -- although many people here, and elsewhere, insist that state and even local governments have a constitutional power to "regulate" limits based on their public safety/policing powers. -- These people have swallowed the socialistic line that prohibitions are constitutional. Makes no real difference, because SCOTUS opinions only apply to the case at issue. -- SCOTUS opinions do not change the constitution.
No. No. No. As written, the second amendment PROTECTS the EXISTING right to keep and bear arms from FEDERAL infringement. "While I like the federal government not being able to limit my rights, I do not favor a state being able to limit my rights." Correct. That's why you have your own state constitution, written and passed by the people of YOUR state. Your state constitution protects your rights from STATE infringement. See how that works?
This statement, coming from a guy who has "taken more than a couple of classes on the Constitution and Constitutional law", is absurd. As written, the Bill of Rights applied ONLY to the federal government. It's in the Preamble to the Bill of Rights. "The court has allowed the states some latitude to pass and enforce certain laws regulating firearms." States have the ultimate power. The federal government only has the powers given to them by the states. States can do whatever the hell they want, provided it does not violate their state constitution. Liberals want ONE constitution to cover everyone. ONE Bill of Rights to cover everyone. And five justices on ONE court to interpret those documents.
They dream of national hegemony.
With rules written by them. But when they don't like those national rules (eg., marijuana), they scream for state's rights.
The Ruling Class neither respects nor follows the US Constitution* What then makes anyone think it would follow any state Constitution? * except in cases where it can be used against the will of the people "Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD . . . " ~Psalm 33:12a
They might choose to keep up appearances as long as it suits them.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
Roscoe and misterwhite seem to believe that individual states can violate the constitution. Wonder where they got that ridiculous idea from? These people have swallowed the socialistic line that prohibitions are constitutional. Socialist is too nice a word to describe those posters here who routinely display their totalitarian bent. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much No....the language is clear, 'Shall not be Infringed' comes to mind. The rights are God given and just because of your fetish for the people who wear black robes to hide penis pumps try to change simple words are winning, doesn't mean they, and Jeb! are right. What exactly in your feeble mind can the government NOT do? What rights can they not regulate into irrelevancy? Meanwhile, your buddy Jon Corzine is still not in jail. Maybe he owns a company who makes and 'services' penis pumps? Do you work for him as a field rep?
The articles author says; -- Absolutely true; -- although many people here, and elsewhere, insist that state and even local governments have a constitutional power to "regulate" limits based on their public safety/policing powers. -- These people have swallowed the socialistic line that prohibitions are constitutional. And right on cue, misterwhite claims; --- And according to the State of California (and some other socialistic States), -- their gun prohibitions do not so violate. --- Which makes gun grabbing clowns like misterwhite and roscoe happy as hell.....
-- many people here, and elsewhere, insist that state and even local governments have a constitutional power to "regulate" limits based on their public safety/policing powers. Probably at their prohibitionists mother's tit.... These people have swallowed the socialistic line that prohibitionary 'laws' are constitutional. Yep, those two are much akin to the national socialists of the 1930's...
What about "Congress shall make NO law ..." in the first amendment? Yet free speech is regulated, isn't it?
Our founders and framers wanted a federal government. These cretins don't even know the difference between a national government and a federal government.
misterwhite claims; --- And according to the State of California (and some other socialistic States), -- their gun prohibitions do not so violate. --- Which makes gun grabbing clowns like misterwhite and roscoe happy as hell..... Whereupon roscoe claims;--- Roscoe (the cretin) agrees with misterwhite that some States have the power to prohibit arms, and pretends that it's a federalist position.
Yes, it is. Please refer to the rest of my original post to you in this thread, that tells the rest of the story. Why after what I wrote to you, I really am laughing like hell at you for going down this road. You really can't make this up...lmao!
I have no interest in penis pumps.
So is this the same Roscoe you were referring to when we were at LP??? Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
Roscoe (the cretin) agrees with misterwhite that some States have the power to prohibit arms, and pretends that it's a federalist position. Yep, same cretin, -- and before LP, he was at FR under that same name, along with various others, -- always backing up the robertpaulsen/misterwhite position, -- That our various levels of gov't can prohibit any damn thing for any damn reason.. They're quite the pair of pussies.
I kinda suspected that was the case (after he posted he was honored to be accused/suspected of being said cretin) just wanted to be sure. Reminds me of a certain GCP member that was always proud to have yukons back...
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
Well, the people you seem to worship do. In fact, since you posted that, you might be eligible for enhanced screening due to being a 'hater'. Maybe a 'thorough' pat down is more your speed? Maybe you can ask Janet Reno to give you one personally, since you have defended her in the past.
Roe v. Wade only recognized the right of Jane Roe to obtain an abortion, and Obergefell only recognized the right of Obergefell to marry someone of the same sex. I wonder what all the fuss has been about.
Janet is only in to vaginas... Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
Makes no real difference, because SCOTUS opinions only apply to the case at issue. -- SCOTUS opinions do not change the constitution.. You barracks house lawyer types have always raised a fuss about precedents. -- Precedence is useful to lazy judges, etc, -- but it doesn't change our law of the land, - our Constitution..
Epic.
DCW does.
As well I should be.
Roscoe (the cretin) agrees with misterwhite that some States have the power to prohibit arms, and pretends that it's a federalist position. But it makes no real difference, because SCOTUS opinions only apply to the case at issue. -- SCOTUS opinions do not change the constitution.. You barracks house lawyer types have always raised a fuss about precedents. -- Precedence is useful to lazy judges, etc, -- but it doesn't change our law of the land, - our Constitution.. Yep, another epic suck up by roscoe, -- although I'd bet that nolu doesn't really want 'friends' like roscoe.. What say you, nolu chan??
It's misterwhite we are talking about, I see no problem. Lol, thanks for the setup
Do you REALLY want to start an insult war with me? Because you will most certainly lose.
Your penis pump buddies voted for substantive due process and against original intent in McDonald v. Chicago.
misterwhite, -- known to have an obsession with masturbation; --- Poor roscoe NEVER loses in his own simplistic mind.
Read this and weep for your ignorance; ---- www.law.cornell.edu Mv. CHICAGO ( No. 08-1521 ) 567 F. 3d 856, reversed and remanded. Syllabus Opinion [Alito] Concurrence [Scalia] Concurrence [Thomas] Dissent [Stevens] Dissent [Breyer] HTML version PDF version HTML version PDF version HTML version PDF version HTML version PDF version HTML version PDF version HTML version PDF version Opinion of Thomas, J. SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES OTIS M c DONALD, et al ., PETITIONERS v. CITY OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, et al . on writ of certiorari to the united states court of appeals for the seventh circuit [June 28, 2010] Justice Thomas , concurring in part and concurring in the judgment. I agree with the Court that the Fourteenth Amendment makes the right to keep and bear arms set forth in the Second Amendment “fully applicable to the States.” Ante , at 1. I write separately because I believe there is a more straightforward path to this conclusion, one that is more faithful to the Fourteenth Amendment ’s text and history. Applying what is now a well-settled test, the plurality opinion concludes that the right to keep and bear arms applies to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment ’s Due Process Clause because it is “fundamental” to the American “scheme of ordered liberty,” ante , at 19 (citing Duncan v. Louisiana , 391 U. S. 145, 149 (1968) ), and “ ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition,’ ” ante , at 19 (quoting Washington v. Glucksberg , 521 U. S. 702, 721 (1997) ). I agree with that description of the right. But I cannot agree that it is enforceable against the States through a clause that speaks only to “process.” Instead, the right to keep and bear arms is a privilege of American citizenship that applies to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment ’s Privileges or Immunities Clause. I In District of Columbia v. Heller , 554 U. S. ___ (2008), this Court held that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense, striking down a District of Columbia ordinance that banned the possession of handguns in the home. Id. , at __ (slip op., at 64). The question in this case is whether the Constitution protects that right against abridgment by the States. As the Court explains, if this case were litigated before the Fourteenth Amendment ’s adoption in 1868, the answer to that question would be simple. In Barron ex rel. Tiernan v. Mayor of Baltimore , 7 Pet. 243 (1833), this Court held that the Bill of Rights applied only to the Federal Government. Writing for the Court, Chief Justice Marshall recalled that the founding generation added the first eight Amendments to the Constitution in response to Antifederalist concerns regarding the extent of federal—not state—power, and held that if “the framers of these amendments [had] intended them to be limitations on the powers of the state governments,” “they would have declared this purpose in plain and intelligible language.” Id. , at 250. Finding no such language in the Bill, Chief Justice Marshall held that it did not in any way restrict state authority. Id. , at 248– 250; see Lessee of Livingston v. Moore , 7 Pet. 469, 551–552 (1833) (reaffirming Barron ’s holding); Permoli v. Municipality No. 1 of New Orleans , 3 How. 589, 609–610 (1845) (same). Nearly three decades after Barron , the Nation was splintered by a civil war fought principally over the question of slavery. As was evident to many throughout our Nation’s early history, slavery, and the measures designed to protect it, were irreconcilable with the principles of equality, government by consent, and inalienable rights proclaimed by the Declaration of Independence and embedded in our constitutional structure. See, e.g. , 3 Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, p. 212 (M. Farrand ed. 1911) (remarks of Luther Martin) (“[S]lavery is inconsistent with the genius of republicanism, and has a tendency to destroy those principles on which it is supported, as it lessens the sense of the equal rights of mankind” (emphasis deleted)); A. Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Ill. (Oct. 16, 1854), reprinted in 2 The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln 266 (R. Basler ed. 1953) (“[N]o man is good enough to govern another man, without that other’s consent . I say this is the leading principle—the sheet anchor of American republicanism. . . . Now the relation of masters and slaves is, pro tanto , a total violation of this principle”). After the war, a series of constitutional amendments were adopted to repair the Nation from the damage slavery had caused. The provision at issue here, §1 of the Fourteenth Amendment , significantly altered our system of government. The first sentence of that section provides that “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” This unambiguously overruled this Court’s contrary holding in Dred Scott v. Sandford , 19 How. 393 (1857), that the Constitution did not recognize black Americans as citizens of the United States or their own State. Id. , at 405–406. The meaning of §1’s next sentence has divided this Court for many years. That sentence begins with the command that “[n]o State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.” On its face, this appears to grant the persons just made United States citizens a certain collection of rights— i.e. , privileges or immunities— attributable to that status. This Court’s precedents accept that point, but define the relevant collection of rights quite narrowly. In the Slaughter-House Cases , 16 Wall. 36 (1873), decided just five years after the Fourteenth Amendment ’s adoption, the Court interpreted this text, now known as the Privileges or Immunities Clause, for the first time. In a closely divided decision, the Court drew a sharp distinction between the privileges and immunities of state citizenship and those of federal citizenship, and held that the Privileges or Immunities Clause protected only the latter category of rights from state abridgment. Id. , at 78. The Court defined that category to include only those rights “which owe their existence to the Federal government, its National character, its Constitution, or its laws.” Id. , at 79. This arguably left open the possibility that certain individual rights enumerated in the Constitution could be considered privileges or immunities of federal citizenship. See ibid. (listing “[t]he right to peaceably assemble” and “the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus ” as rights potentially protected by the Privileges or Immunities Clause). But the Court soon rejected that proposition, interpreting the Privileges or Immunities Clause even more narrowly in its later cases. Chief among those cases is United States v. Cruikshank , 92 U. S. 542 (1876) . There, the Court held that members of a white militia who had brutally murdered as many as 165 black Louisianians congregating outside a courthouse had not deprived the victims of their privileges as American citizens to peaceably assemble or to keep and bear arms. Ibid.; see L. Keith, The Colfax Massacre 109 (2008). According to the Court, the right to peaceably assemble codified in the First Amendment was not a privilege of United States citizenship because “[t]he right . . . existed long before the adoption of the Constitution.” 92 U. S., at 551 (emphasis added). Similarly, the Court held that the right to keep and bear arms was not a privilege of United States citizenship because it was not “in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence.” Id. , at 553. In other words, the reason the Framers codified the right to bear arms in the Second Amendment —its nature as an inalienable right that pre-existed the Constitution’s adoption—was the very reason citizens could not enforce it against States through the Fourteenth. That circular reasoning effectively has been the Court’s last word on the Privileges or Immunities Clause. 1 In the intervening years, the Court has held that the Clause prevents state abridgment of only a handful of rights, such as the right to travel, see Saenz v. Roe , 526 U. S. 489, 503 (1999) , that are not readily described as essential to liberty. As a consequence of this Court’s marginalization of the Clause, litigants seeking federal protection of fundamental rights turned to the remainder of §1 in search of an alternative fount of such rights. They found one in a most curious place—that section’s command that every State guarantee “due process” to any person before depriving him of “life, liberty, or property.” At first, litigants argued that this Due Process Clause “incorporated” certain procedural rights codified in the Bill of Rights against the States. The Court generally rejected those claims, however, on the theory that the rights in question were not sufficiently “fundamental” to warrant such treatment. See, e.g. , Hurtado v. California , 110 U. S. 516 (1884) (grand jury indictment requirement); Maxwell v. Dow , 176 U. S. 581 (1900) (12-person jury requirement); Twining v. New Jersey , 211 U. S. 78 (1908) (privilege against self-incrimination). That changed with time. The Court came to conclude that certain Bill of Rights guarantees were sufficiently fundamental to fall within §1’s guarantee of “due process.” These included not only procedural protections listed in the first eight Amendments, see, e.g. , Benton v. Maryland , 395 U. S. 784 (1969) (protection against double jeopardy), but substantive rights as well, see, e.g. , Gitlow v. New York , 268 U. S. 652, 666 (1925) (right to free speech); Near v. Minnesota ex rel. Olson , 283 U. S. 697, 707 (1931) (same). In the process of incorporating these rights against the States, the Court often applied them differently against the States than against the Federal Government on the theory that only those “fundamental” aspects of the right required Due Process Clause protection. See, e.g. , Betts v. Brady , 316 U. S. 455, 473 (1942) (holding that the Sixth Amendment required the appointment of counsel in all federal criminal cases in which the defendant was unable to retain an attorney, but that the Due Process Clause required appointment of counsel in state criminal cases only where “want of counsel . . . result[ed] in a conviction lacking in . . . fundamental fairness”). In more recent years, this Court has “abandoned the notion” that the guarantees in the Bill of Rights apply differently when incorporated against the States than they do when applied to the Federal Government. Ante , at 17–18 (opinion of the Court) (internal quotation marks omitted). But our cases continue to adhere to the view that a right is incorporated through the Due Process Clause only if it is sufficiently “fundamental,” ante , at 37, 42–44 (plurality opinion)— a term the Court has long struggled to define. While this Court has at times concluded that a right gains “fundamental” status only if it is essential to the American “scheme of ordered liberty” or “ ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition,’ ” ante , at 19 (plurality opinion) (quoting Glucksberg , 521 U. S., at 721), the Court has just as often held that a right warrants Due Process Clause protection if it satisfies a far less measurable range of criteria, see Lawrence v. Texas , 539 U. S. 558, 562 (2003) (concluding that the Due Process Clause protects “liberty of the person both in its spatial and in its more transcendent dimensions”). Using the latter approach, the Court has determined that the Due Process Clause applies rights against the States that are not mentioned in the Constitution at all, even without seriously arguing that the Clause was originally understood to protect such rights. See, e.g. , Lochner v. New York , 198 U. S. 45 (1905) ; Roe v. Wade , 410 U. S. 113 (1973) ; Lawrence , supra . All of this is a legal fiction. The notion that a constitutional provision that guarantees only “process” before a person is deprived of life, liberty, or property could define the substance of those rights strains credulity for even the most casual user of words. Moreover, this fiction is a particularly dangerous one. The one theme that links the Court’s substantive due process precedents together is their lack of a guiding principle to distinguish “fundamental” rights that warrant protection from nonfundamental rights that do not. Today’s decision illustrates the point. Replaying a debate that has endured from the inception of the Court’s substantive due process jurisprudence, the dissents laud the “flexibility” in this Court’s substantive due process doctrine, post , at 14 ( Stevens, J., dissenting); see post , at 6–8 ( Breyer, J., dissenting), while the plurality makes yet another effort to impose principled restraints on its exercise, see ante , at 33–41. But neither side argues that the meaning they attribute to the Due Process Clause was consistent with public understanding at the time of its ratification. To be sure, the plurality’s effort to cabin the exercise of judicial discretion under the Due Process Clause by focusing its inquiry on those rights deeply rooted in American history and tradition invites less opportunity for abuse than the alternatives. See post , at 7 ( Breyer, J., dissenting) (arguing that rights should be incorporated against the States through the Due Process Clause if they are “well-suited to the carrying out of . . . constitutional promises”); post , at 22 (Stevens, J., dissenting) (warning that there is no “all-purpose, top- down, totalizing theory of ‘liberty’ ” protected by the Due Process Clause). But any serious argument over the scope of the Due Process Clause must acknowledge that neither its text nor its history suggests that it protects the many substantive rights this Court’s cases now claim it does. I cannot accept a theory of constitutional interpretation that rests on such tenuous footing. This Court’s substantive due process framework fails to account for both the text of the Fourteenth Amendment and the history that led to its adoption, filling that gap with a jurisprudence devoid of a guiding principle. I believe the original meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment offers a superior alternative, and that a return to that meaning would allow this Court to enforce the rights the Fourteenth Amendment is designed to protect with greater clarity and predictability than the substantive due process framework has so far managed. I acknowledge the volume of precedents that have been built upon the substantive due process framework, and I further acknowledge the importance of stare decisis to the stability of our Nation’s legal system. But stare decisis is only an “adjunct” of our duty as judges to decide by our best lights what the Constitution means. Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey , 505 U. S. 833, 963 (1992) (Rehnquist, C. J., concurring in judgment in part and dissenting in part). It is not “an inexorable command.” Lawrence , supra , at 577. Moreover, as judges, we interpret the Constitution one case or controversy at a time. The question presented in this case is not whether our entire Fourteenth Amendment jurisprudence must be preserved or revised, but only whether, and to what extent, a particular clause in the Constitution protects the particular right at issue here. With the inquiry appropriately narrowed, I believe this case presents an opportunity to reexamine, and begin the process of restoring, the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment agreed upon by those who ratified it. II “It cannot be presumed that any clause in the constitution is intended to be without effect.” Marbury v. Madison , 1 Cranch 137, 174 (1803) (Marshall, C. J.). Because the Court’s Privileges or Immunities Clause precedents have presumed just that, I set them aside for the moment and begin with the text. The Privileges or Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment declares that “[n]o State . . . shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.” In interpreting this language, it is important to recall that constitutional provisions are “ ‘written to be understood by the voters.’ ” Heller , 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 3) (quoting United States v. Sprague , 282 U. S. 716, 731 (1931) ). Thus, the objective of this inquiry is to discern what “ordinary citizens” at the time of ratification would have understood the Privileges or Immunities Clause to mean. 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 3). A 1 At the time of Reconstruction, the terms “privileges” and “immunities” had an established meaning as synonyms for “rights.” The two words, standing alone or paired together, were used interchangeably with the words “rights,” “liberties,” and “freedoms,” and had been since the time of Blackstone. See 1 W. Blackstone, Commentaries *129 (describing the “rights and liberties” of Englishmen as “private immunities” and “civil privileges”). A number of antebellum judicial decisions used the terms in this manner. See, e.g. , Magill v. Brown , 16 F. Cas. 408, 428 (No. 8,952) (CC ED Pa. 1833) (Baldwin, J.) (“The words ‘privileges and immunities’ relate to the rights of persons, place or property; a privilege is a peculiar right, a private law, conceded to particular persons or places”). In addition, dictionary definitions confirm that the public shared this understanding. See, e.g. , N. Webster, An American Dictionary of the English Language 1039 (C. Goodrich & N. Porter rev. 1865) (defining “privilege” as “a right or immunity not enjoyed by others or by all” and listing among its synonyms the words “immunity,” “franchise,” “right,” and “liberty”); id. , at 661 (defining “immunity” as “[f]reedom from an obligation” or “particular privilege”); id. , at 1140 (defining “right” as “[p]rivilege or immunity granted by authority”). 2 The fact that a particular interest was designated as a “privilege” or “immunity,” rather than a “right,” “liberty,” or “freedom,” revealed little about its substance. Blackstone, for example, used the terms “privileges” and “immunities” to describe both the inalienable rights of individuals and the positive-law rights of corporations. See 1 Commentaries, at *129 (describing “private immunities” as a “ residuum of natural liberty,” and “civil privileges” as those “which society has engaged to provide, in lieu of the natural liberties so given up by individuals” (footnote omitted)); id. , at *468 (stating that a corporate charter enables a corporation to “establish rules and orders” that serve as “the privileges and immunities . . . of the corporation”). Writers in this country at the time of Reconstruction followed a similar practice. See, e.g. , Racine & Mississippi R. Co. v. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Co. , 49 Ill. 331, 334 (1868) (describing agreement between two railroad companies in which they agreed “ ‘to fully merge and consolidate the[ir] capital stock, powers, privileges, immunities and franchises’ ”); Hathorn v. Calef , 53 Me. 471, 483–484 (1866) (concluding that a statute did not “modify any power, privileges, or immunity, pertaining to the franchise of any corporation”). The nature of a privilege or immunity thus varied depending on the person, group, or entity to whom those rights were assigned. See Lash, The Origins of the Privileges or Immunities Clause, Part I: “Privileges and Immunities” as an Antebellum Term of Art, 98 Geo. L. J. 1241, 1256–1257 (2010) (surveying antebellum usages of these terms). 2 The group of rights-bearers to whom the Privileges or Immunities Clause applies is, of course, “citizens.” By the time of Reconstruction, it had long been established that both the States and the Federal Government existed to preserve their citizens’ inalienable rights, and that these rights were considered “privileges” or “immunities” of citizenship. This tradition begins with our country’s English roots. Parliament declared the basic liberties of English citizens in a series of documents ranging from the Magna Carta to the Petition of Right and the English Bill of Rights. See 1 B. Schwartz, The Bill of Rights: A Documentary History 8–16, 19–21, 41–46 (1971) (hereinafter Schwartz). These fundamental rights, according to the English tradition, belonged to all people but became legally enforceable only when recognized in legal texts, including acts of Parliament and the decisions of common-law judges. See B. Bailyn, The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution 77–79 (1967). These rights included many that later would be set forth in our Federal Bill of Rights, such as the right to petition for redress of grievances, the right to a jury trial, and the right of “Protestants” to “have arms for their defence.” English Bill of Rights (1689), reprinted in 1 Schwartz 41, 43. As English subjects, the colonists considered themselves to be vested with the same fundamental rights as other Englishmen. They consistently claimed the rights of English citizenship in their founding documents, repeatedly referring to these rights as “privileges” and “immunities.” For example, a Maryland law provided that “[A]ll the Inhabitants of this Province being Christians (Slaves excepted) Shall have and enjoy all such rights liberties immunities priviledges and free customs within this Province as any naturall born subject of England hath or ought to have or enjoy in the Realm of England . . . .” Md. Act for the Liberties of the People (1639), in id., at 68 (emphasis added). 3 As tensions between England and the Colonies increased, the colonists adopted protest resolutions reasserting their claim to the inalienable rights of Englishmen. Again, they used the terms “privileges” and “immunities” to describe these rights. As the Massachusetts Resolves declared: “ Resolved , That there are certain essential Rights of the British Constitution of Government, which are founded in the Law of God and Nature, and are the common Rights of Mankind—Therefore… . . “Resolved, That no Man can justly take the Property of another without his Consent: And that upon this original Principle the Right of Representation . . . is evidently founded… . Resolved , That this inherent Right, together with all other, essential Rights, Liberties, Privileges and Immunities of the People of Great Britain, have been fully confirmed to them by Magna Charta .” The Massachusetts Resolves (Oct. 29, 1765), reprinted in Prologue to Revolution: Sources and Documents on the Stamp Act Crisis, 1764–1766, p. 56 (E. Morgan ed. 1959) (some emphasis added). 4 In keeping with this practice, the First Continental Congress declared in 1774 that the King had wrongfully denied the colonists “the rights, liberties, and immunities of free and natural-born subjects … within the realm of England.” 1 Journals of the Continental Congress 1774–1789, p. 68 (1904). In an address delivered to the inhabitants of Quebec that same year, the Congress described those rights as including the “great” “right[s]” of “trial by jury,” “Habeas Corpus,” and “freedom of the press.” Address of the Continental Congress to the Inhabitants of Quebec (1774), reprinted in 1 Schwartz 221–223. After declaring their independence, the newly formed States replaced their colonial charters with constitutions and state bills of rights, almost all of which guaranteed the same fundamental rights that the former colonists previously had claimed by virtue of their English heritage. See, e. g. , Pa. Declaration of Rights (1776), reprinted in 5 Thorpe 3081–3084 (declaring that “all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights,” including the “right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences” and the “right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state”). 5 Several years later, the Founders amended the Constitution to expressly protect many of the same fundamental rights against interference by the Federal Government. Consistent with their English heritage, the founding generation generally did not consider many of the rights identified in these amendments as new entitlements, but as inalienable rights of all men, given legal effect by their codification in the Constitution’s text. See, e.g. , 1 Annals of Cong. 431– 432, 436–437, 440–442 (1834) (statement of Rep. Madison) (proposing Bill of Rights in the first Congress); The Federalist No. 84, pp. 531–533 (B. Wright ed. 1961) (A. Hamilton); see also Heller , 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 19) (“[I]t has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment , like the First and Fourth Amendment s, codified a pre-existing right”). The Court’s subsequent decision in Barron , however, made plain that the codification of these rights in the Bill made them legally enforceable only against the Federal Government, not the States. See 7 Pet., at 247. 3 Even though the Bill of Rights did not apply to the States, other provisions of the Constitution did limit state interference with individual rights. Article IV, §2, cl. 1 provides that “[t]he Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.” The text of this provision resembles the Privileges or Immunities Clause, and it can be assumed that the public’s understanding of the latter was informed by its understanding of the former. Article IV, §2 was derived from a similar clause in the Articles of Confederation, and reflects the dual citizenship the Constitution provided to all Americans after replacing that “league” of separate sovereign States. Gibbons v. Ogden , 9 Wheat. 1, 187 (1824); see 3 J. Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States §1800, p. 675 (1833). By virtue of a person’s citizenship in a particular State, he was guaranteed whatever rights and liberties that State’s constitution and laws made available. Article IV, §2 vested citizens of each State with an additional right: the assurance that they would be afforded the “privileges and immunities” of citizenship in any of the several States in the Union to which they might travel. What were the “Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States”? That question was answered perhaps most famously by Justice Bushrod Washington sitting as Circuit Justice in Corfield v. Coryell , 6 F. Cas. 546, 551–552 (No. 3,230) (CC ED Pa. 1825). In that case, a Pennsylvania citizen claimed that a New Jersey law prohibiting nonresidents from harvesting oysters from the State’s waters violated Article IV, §2 because it deprived him, as an out-of-state citizen, of a right New Jersey availed to its own citizens. Id. , at 550. Justice Washington rejected that argument, refusing to “accede to the proposition” that Article IV, §2 entitled “citizens of the several states . . . to participate in all the rights which belong exclusively to the citizens of any other particular state.” Id. , at 552 (emphasis added). In his view, Article IV, §2 did not guarantee equal access to all public benefits a State might choose to make available to its citizens. See id., at 552. Instead, it applied only to those rights “which are, in their nature, fundamental ; which belong, of right, to the citizens of all free governments.” Id. , at 551 (emphasis added). Other courts generally agreed with this principle. See, e.g. , Abbott v. Bayley , 23 Mass. 89, 92–93 (1827) (noting that the “privileges and immunities” of citizens in the several States protected by Article IV, §2 are “qualified and not absolute” because they do not grant a traveling citizen the right of “suffrage or of eligibility to office” in the State to which he travels). When describing those “fundamental” rights, Justice Washington thought it “would perhaps be more tedious than difficult to enumerate” them all, but suggested that they could “be all comprehended under” a broad list of “general heads,” such as “[p]rotection by the government,” “the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the right to acquire and possess property of every kind,” “the benefit of the writ of habeas corpus,” and the right of access to “the courts of the state,” among others. 6 Corfield , supra , at 551–552. Notably, Justice Washington did not indicate whether Article IV, §2 required States to recognize these fundamental rights in their own citizens and thus in sojourning citizens alike, or whether the Clause simply prohibited the States from discriminating against sojourning citizens with respect to whatever fundamental rights state law happened to recognize. On this question, the weight of legal authorities at the time of Reconstruction indicated that Article IV, §2 prohibited States from discriminating against sojourning citizens when recognizing fundamental rights, but did not require States to recognize those rights and did not prescribe their content. The highest courts of several States adopted this view, see, e.g. , Livingston v. Van Ingen , 9 Johns. 507, 561 (N. Y. Sup. Ct. 1812) (Yates, J.); id. , at 577 (Kent, J.); Campbell v. Morris , 3 H. & McH. 535, 553–554 (Md. Gen. Ct. 1797) (Chase, J.), as did several influential treatise- writers, see T. Cooley, A Treatise on the Constitutional Limitations Which Rest Upon the Legislative Power of the State of the American Union 15–16, and n. 3 (1868) (reprint 1972) (describing Article IV, §2 as designed “to prevent discrimination by the several States against the citizens and public proceedings of other States”); 2 J. Kent, Commentaries on American Law 35 (11th ed. 1867) (stating that Article IV, §2 entitles sojourning citizens “to the privileges that persons of the same description are entitled to in the state to which the removal is made, and to none other”). This Court adopted the same conclusion in a unanimous opinion just one year after the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified. See Paul v. Virginia , 8 Wall. 168, 180 (1869). * * * The text examined so far demonstrates three points about the meaning of the Privileges or Immunities Clause in §1. First, “privileges” and “immunities” were synonyms for “rights.” Second, both the States and the Federal Government had long recognized the inalienable rights of their citizens. Third, Article IV, §2 of the Constitution protected traveling citizens against state discrimination with respect to the fundamental rights of state citizenship. Two questions still remain, both provoked by the textual similarity between §1’s Privileges or Immunities Clause and Article IV, §2. The first involves the nature of the rights at stake: Are the privileges or immunities of “citizens of the United States” recognized by §1 the same as the privileges and immunities of “citizens in the several States” to which Article IV, §2 refers? The second involves the restriction imposed on the States: Does §1, like Article IV, §2, prohibit only discrimination with respect to certain rights if the State chooses to recognize them, or does it require States to recognize those rights? I address each question in turn. B I start with the nature of the rights that §1’s Privileges or Immunities Clause protects. Section 1 overruled Dred Scott ’s holding that blacks were not citizens of either the United States or their own State and, thus, did not enjoy “the privileges and immunities of citizens” embodied in the Constitution. 19 How., at 417. The Court in Dred Scott did not distinguish between privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States and citizens in the several States, instead referring to the rights of citizens generally. It did, however, give examples of what the rights of citizens were—the constitutionally enumerated rights of “the full liberty of speech” and the right “to keep and carry arms.” Ibid. Section 1 protects the rights of citizens “of the United States” specifically. The evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that the privileges and immunities of such citizens included individual rights enumerated in the Constitution, including the right to keep and bear arms. 1 Nineteenth-century treaties through which the United States acquired territory from other sovereigns routinely promised inhabitants of the newly acquired territories that they would enjoy all of the “rights,” “privileges,” and “immunities” of United States citizens. See, e.g. , Treaty of Amity, Settlement, and Limits, Art. 6, Feb. 22, 1819, 8 Stat. 256–258, T. S. No. 327 (entered into force Feb. 19, 1821) (cession of Florida) (“The inhabitants of the territories which his Catholic Majesty cedes to the United States, by this Treaty, shall be incorporated in the Union of the United States, as soon as may be consistent with the principles of the Federal Constitution, and admitted to the enjoyment of all the privileges, rights, and immunities, of the citizens of the United States ” (emphasis added)). 7 Commentators of the time explained that the rights and immunities of “citizens of the United States” recognized in these treaties “undoubtedly mean[t] those privileges that are common to all citizens of this republic.” Marcus, An Examination of the Expediency and Constitutionality of Prohibiting Slavery in the State of Missouri 17 (1819). It is therefore altogether unsurprising that several of these treaties identify liberties enumerated in the Constitution as privileges and immunities common to all United States citizens. For example, the Louisiana Cession Act of 1803, which codified a treaty between the United States and France culminating in the Louisiana Purchase, provided that “The inhabitants of the ceded territory shall be incorporated in the Union of the United States, and admitted as soon as possible, according to the principles of the Federal constitution, to the enjoyments of all the rights, advantages and immunities of citizens of the United States; and in the mean time they shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property and the religion which they profess .” Treaty Between the United States of America and the French Republic, Art. III, Apr. 30, 1803, 8 Stat. 202, T. S. No. 86 (emphasis added). 8 The Louisiana Cession Act reveals even more about the privileges and immunities of United States citizenship because it provoked an extensive public debate on the meaning of that term. In 1820, when the Missouri Territory (which the United States acquired through the Cession Act) sought to enter the Union as a new State, a debate ensued over whether to prohibit slavery within Missouri as a condition of its admission. Some congressmen argued that prohibiting slavery in Missouri would deprive its inhabitants of the “privileges and immunities” they had been promised by the Cession Act. See, e.g. , 35 Annals of Cong. 1083 (1855) (remarks of Kentucky Rep. Hardin). But those who opposed slavery in Missouri argued that the right to hold slaves was merely a matter of state property law, not one of the privileges and immunities of United States citizenship guaranteed by the Act. 9 Daniel Webster was among the leading proponents of the antislavery position. In his “Memorial to Congress,” Webster argued that “[t]he rights, advantages and immunities here spoken of [in the Cession Act] must . . . be such as are recognized or communicated by the Constitution of the United States,” not the “rights, advantages and immunities, derived exclusively from the State governments . . . .” D. Webster, A Memorial to the Congress of the United States on the Subject of Restraining the Increase of Slavery in New States to be Admitted into the Union 15 (Dec. 15, 1819) (emphasis added). “The obvious meaning” of the Act, in Webster’s view, was that “ the rights derived under the federal Constitution shall be enjoyed by the inhabitants of [the territory].” Id. , at 15–16 (emphasis added). In other words, Webster articulated a distinction between the rights of United States citizenship and the rights of state citizenship, and argued that the former included those rights “recognized or communicated by the Constitution.” Since the right to hold slaves was not mentioned in the Constitution, it was not a right of federal citizenship. Webster and his allies ultimately lost the debate over slavery in Missouri and the territory was admitted as a slave State as part of the now-famous Missouri Compromise. Missouri Enabling Act of March 6, 1820, ch. 22, §8, 3 Stat. 548. But their arguments continued to inform public understanding of the privileges and immunities of United States citizenship. In 1854, Webster’s Memorial was republished in a pamphlet discussing the Nation’s next major debate on slavery—the proposed repeal of the Missouri Compromise through the Kansas-Nebraska Act, see The Nebraska Question: Comprising Speeches in the United States Senate: Together with the History of the Missouri Compromise 9–12 (1854). It was published again in 1857 in a collection of famous American speeches. See The Political Text-Book, or Encyclopedia: Containing Everything Necessary for the Reference of the Politicians and Statesmen of the United States 601–604 (M. Cluskey ed. 1857); see also Lash, 98 Geo. L. J., at 1294–1296 (describing Webster’s arguments and their influence). 2 Evidence from the political branches in the years leading to the Fourteenth Amendment ’s adoption demonstrates broad public understanding that the privileges and immunities of United States citizenship included rights set forth in the Constitution, just as Webster and his allies had argued. In 1868, President Andrew Johnson issued a proclamation granting amnesty to former Confederates, guaranteeing “to all and to every person who directly or indirectly participated in the late insurrection or rebellion, a full pardon and amnesty for the offence of treason . . . with restoration of all rights, privileges, and immunities under the Constitution and the laws which have been made in pursuance thereof.” 15 Stat. 712. Records from the 39th Congress further support this understanding. a After the Civil War, Congress established the Joint Committee on Reconstruction to investigate circumstances in the Southern States and to determine whether, and on what conditions, those States should be readmitted to the Union. See Cong. Globe, 39th Cong., 1st Sess., 6, 30 (1865) (hereinafter 39th Cong. Globe); M. Curtis, No State Shall Abridge: The Fourteenth Amendment and the Bill of Rights 57 (1986) (hereinafter Curtis). That Committee would ultimately recommend the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment , justifying its recommendation by submitting a report to Congress that extensively catalogued the abuses of civil rights in the former slave States and argued that “adequate security for future peace and safety . . . can only be found in such changes of the organic law as shall determine the civil rights and privileges of all citizens in all parts of the republic.” See Report of the Joint Committee on Reconstruction, S. Rep. No. 112, 39th Cong., 1st Sess., p. 15 (1866); H. R. Rep. No. 30, 39th Cong., 1st Sess., p. XXI (1866). As the Court notes, the Committee’s Report “was widely reprinted in the press and distributed by members of the 39th Congress to their constituents.” Ante , at 24; B. Kendrick, Journal of the Joint Committee of Fifteen on Reconstruction 264– 265 (1914) (noting that 150,000 copies of the Report were printed and that it was widely distributed as a campaign document in the election of 1866). In addition, newspaper coverage suggests that the wider public was aware of the Committee’s work even before the Report was issued. For example, the Fort Wayne Daily Democrat (which appears to have been unsupportive of the Committee’s work) paraphrased a motion instructing the Committee to “enquire into [the] expediency of amending the Constitution of the United States so as to declare with greater certainty the power of Congress to enforce and determine by appropriate legislation all the guarantees contained in that instrument .” The Nigger Congress!, Fort Wayne Daily Democrat, Feb. 1, 1866, p. 4 (emphasis added). b Statements made by Members of Congress leading up to, and during, the debates on the Fourteenth Amendment point in the same direction. The record of these debates has been combed before. See Adamson v. California , 332 U. S. 46, 92–110 (1947) (Appendix to dissenting opinion of Black, J.) (concluding that the debates support the conclusion that §1 was understood to incorporate the Bill of Rights against the States); ante , at 14, n. 9, 26–27, n. 23, (opinion of the Court) (counting the debates among other evidence that §1 applies the Second Amendment against the States). Before considering that record here, it is important to clarify its relevance. When interpreting constitutional text, the goal is to discern the most likely public understanding of a particular provision at the time it was adopted. Statements by legislators can assist in this process to the extent they demonstrate the manner in which the public used or understood a particular word or phrase. They can further assist to the extent there is evidence that these statements were disseminated to the public. In other words, this evidence is useful not because it demonstrates what the draftsmen of the text may have been thinking, but only insofar as it illuminates what the public understood the words chosen by the draftsmen to mean. (1) Three speeches stand out as particularly significant. Representative John Bingham, the principal draftsman of §1, delivered a speech on the floor of the House in February 1866 introducing his first draft of the provision. Bingham began by discussing Barron and its holding that the Bill of Rights did not apply to the States. He then argued that a constitutional amendment was necessary to provide “an express grant of power in Congress to enforce by penal enactment these great canons of the supreme law, securing to all the citizens in every State all the privileges and immunities of citizens, and to all the people all the sacred rights of person.” 39th Cong. Globe 1089–1090 (1866). Bingham emphasized that §1 was designed “to arm the Congress of the United States, by the consent of the people of the United States, with the power to enforce the bill of rights as it stands in the Constitution today. It ‘hath that extent—no more.’ ” Id ., at 1088. Bingham’s speech was printed in pamphlet form and broadly distributed in 1866 under the title, “One Country, One Constitution, and One People,” and the subtitle, “In Support of the Proposed Amendment to Enforce the Bill of Rights.” 10 Newspapers also reported his proposal, with the New York Times providing particularly extensive coverage, including a full reproduction of Bingham’s first draft of §1 and his remarks that a constitutional amendment to “enforc[e]” the “immortal bill of rights” was “absolutely essential to American nationality.” N. Y. Times, Feb. 27, 1866, p. 8. Bingham’s first draft of §1 was different from the version ultimately adopted. Of particular importance, the first draft granted Congress the “power to make all laws … necessary and proper to secure” the “citizens of each State all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States,” rather than restricting state power to “abridge” the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States. 11 39th Cong. Globe 1088. That draft was met with objections, which the Times covered extensively. A front-page article hailed the “Clear and Forcible Speech” by Representative Robert Hale against the draft, explaining—and endorsing—Hale’s view that Bingham’s proposal would “confer upon Congress all the rights and power of legislation now reserved to the States” and would “in effect utterly obliterate State rights and State authority over their own internal affairs.” 12 N. Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1866, p. 1. Critically, Hale did not object to the draft insofar as it purported to protect constitutional liberties against state interference. Indeed, Hale stated that he believed (incorrectly in light of Barron ) that individual rights enumerated in the Constitution were already enforceable against the States. See 39th Cong. Globe 1064 (“I have, somehow or other, gone along with the impression that there is that sort of protection thrown over us in some way, whether with or without the sanction of a judicial decision that we are so protected”); see N. Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1866, at 1. Hale’s misperception was not uncommon among members of the Reconstruction generation. See infra , at 38–40. But that is secondary to the point that the Times’ coverage of this debate over §1’s meaning suggests public awareness of its main contours— i.e. , that §1 would, at a minimum, enforce constitutionally enumerated rights of United States citizens against the States. Bingham’s draft was tabled for several months. In the interim, he delivered a second well-publicized speech, again arguing that a constitutional amendment was required to give Congress the power to enforce the Bill of Rights against the States. That speech was printed in pamphlet form, see Speech of Hon. John A. Bingham, of Ohio, on the Civil Rights Bill, Mar. 9, 1866 (Cong. Globe); see 39th Cong. Globe 1837 (remarks of Rep. Lawrence) (noting that the speech was “extensively published”), and the New York Times covered the speech on its front page. Thirty-Ninth Congress, N. Y. Times, Mar. 10, 1866, p. 1. By the time the debates on the Fourteenth Amendment resumed, Bingham had amended his draft of §1 to include the text of the Privileges or Immunities Clause that was ultimately adopted. Senator Jacob Howard introduced the new draft on the floor of the Senate in the third speech relevant here. Howard explained that the Constitution recognized “a mass of privileges, immunities, and rights, some of them secured by the second section of the fourth article of the Constitution, . . . some by the first eight amendments of the Constitution,” and that “there is no power given in the Constitution to enforce and to carry out any of these guarantees” against the States. 39th Cong. Globe 2765. Howard then stated that “the great object” of §1 was to “restrain the power of the States and compel them at all times to respect these great fundamental guarantees.” Id. , at 2766. Section 1, he indicated, imposed “a general prohibition upon all the States, as such, from abridging the privileges and immunities of the citizens of the United States.” Id. , at 2765. In describing these rights, Howard explained that they included “the privileges and immunities spoken of” in Article IV, §2. Id., at 2765. Although he did not catalogue the precise “nature” or “extent” of those rights, he thought “Corfield v. Coryell” provided a useful description. Howard then submitted that “[t]o these privileges and immunities, whatever they may be— . . . should be added the personal rights guarantied and secured by the first eight amendments of the Constitution ; such as the freedom of speech and of the press; the right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition the Government for a redress of grievances, [and] . . . the right to keep and to bear arms .” Ibid. (emphasis added). News of Howard’s speech was carried in major newspapers across the country, including the New York Herald, see N. Y. Herald, May 24, 1866, p. 1, which was the best-selling paper in the Nation at that time, see A. Amar, The Bill of Rights: Creation and Reconstruction 187 (1998) (hereinafter Amar). 13 The New York Times carried the speech as well, reprinting a lengthy excerpt of Howard’s remarks, including the statements quoted above. N. Y. Times, May 24, 1866, p. 1. The following day’s Times editorialized on Howard’s speech, predicting that “[t]o this, the first section of the amendment, the Union party throughout the country will yield a ready acquiescence, and the South could offer no justifiable resistance,” suggesting that Bingham’s narrower second draft had not been met with the same objections that Hale had raised against the first. N. Y. Times, May 25, 1866, p. 4. As a whole, these well-circulated speeches indicate that §1 was understood to enforce constitutionally declared rights against the States, and they provide no suggestion that any language in the section other than the Privileges or Immunities Clause would accomplish that task. (2) When read against this backdrop, the civil rights legislation adopted by the 39th Congress in 1866 further supports this view. Between passing the Thirteenth Amendment —which outlawed slavery alone—and the Fourteenth Amendment , Congress passed two significant pieces of legislation. The first was the Civil Rights Act of 1866, which provided that “all persons born in the United States” were “citizens of the United States” and that “such citizens, of every race and color, . . . shall have the same right” to, among other things, “full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of person and property, as is enjoyed by white citizens.” Ch. 31, §1, 14 Stat. 27. Both proponents and opponents of this Act described it as providing the “privileges” of citizenship to freedmen, and defined those privileges to include constitutional rights, such as the right to keep and bear arms. See 39th Cong. Globe 474 (remarks of Sen. Trumbull) (stating that the “the late slaveholding States” had enacted laws “depriving persons of African descent of privileges which are essential to freemen,” including “prohibit[ing] any negro or mulatto from having fire-arms” and stating that “[t]he purpose of the bill under consideration is to destroy all these discriminations”); id. , at 1266–1267 (remarks of Rep. Raymond) (opposing the Act, but recognizing that to “[m]ake a colored man a citizen of the United States” would guarantee to him, inter alia , “a defined status . . . a right to defend himself and his wife and children; a right to bear arms”). Three months later, Congress passed the Freedmen’s Bureau Act, which also entitled all citizens to the “full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings concerning personal liberty” and “personal security.” Act of July 16, 1866, ch. 200, §14, 14 Stat. 176. The Act stated expressly that the rights of personal liberty and security protected by the Act “includ[ed] the constitutional right to bear arms.” Ibid. (3) There is much else in the legislative record. Many statements by Members of Congress corroborate the view that the Privileges or Immunities Clause enforced constitutionally enumerated rights against the States. See Curtis 112 (collecting examples). I am not aware of any statement that directly refutes that proposition. That said, the record of the debates—like most legislative history—is less than crystal clear. In particular, much ambiguity derives from the fact that at least several Members described §1 as protecting the privileges and immunities of citizens “in the several States,” harkening back to Article IV, §2. See supra , at 28–29 (describing Sen. Howard’s speech). These statements can be read to support the view that the Privileges or Immunities Clause protects some or all the fundamental rights of “citizens” described in Corfield . They can also be read to support the view that the Privileges or Immunities Clause, like Article IV, §2, prohibits only state discrimination with respect to those rights it covers, but does not deprive States of the power to deny those rights to all citizens equally. I examine the rest of the historical record with this understanding. But for purposes of discerning what the public most likely thought the Privileges or Immunities Clause to mean, it is significant that the most widely publicized statements by the legislators who voted on §1—Bingham, Howard, and even Hale—point unambiguously toward the conclusion that the Privileges or Immunities Clause enforces at least those fundamental rights enumerated in the Constitution against the States, including the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. 3 Interpretations of the Fourteenth Amendment in the period immediately following its ratification help to establish the public understanding of the text at the time of its adoption. Some of these interpretations come from Members of Congress. During an 1871 debate on a bill to enforce the Fourteenth Amendment , Representative Henry Dawes listed the Constitution’s first eight Amendments, including “the right to keep and bear arms,” before explaining that after the Civil War, the country “gave the most grand of all these rights, privileges, and immunities, by one single amendment to the Constitution, to four millions of American citizens” who formerly were slaves. Cong. Globe, 42d Cong., 1st Sess., 475–476 (1871). “It is all these,” Dawes explained, “which are comprehended in the words ‘American citizen.’ ” Ibid . ; see also id. , at 334 (remarks of Rep. Hoar) (stating that the Privileges or Immunities Clause referred to those rights “declared to belong to the citizen by the Constitution itself”). Even opponents of Fourteenth Amendment enforcement legislation acknowledged that the Privileges or Immunities Clause protected constitutionally enumerated individual rights. See 2 Cong. Rec. 384–385 (1874) (remarks of Rep. Mills) (opposing enforcement law, but acknowledging, in referring to the Bill of Rights, that “[t]hese first amendments and some provisions of the Constitution of like import embrace the ‘privileges and immunities’ of citizenship as set forth in article 4, section 2 of the Constitution and in the fourteenth amendment ” (emphasis added)); see Curtis 166–170 (collecting examples). Legislation passed in furtherance of the Fourteenth Amendment demonstrates even more clearly this understanding. For example, Congress enacted the Civil Rights Act of 1871, 17 Stat. 13, which was titled in pertinent part “An Act to enforce the Provisions of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States,” and which is codified in the still-existing 42 U. S. C. §1983. That statute prohibits state officials from depriving citizens of “any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution .” Rev. Stat. 1979, 42 U. S. C. §1983 (emphasis added). Although the Judiciary ignored this provision for decades after its enactment, this Court has come to interpret the statute, unremarkably in light of its text, as protecting constitutionally enumerated rights. Monroe v. Pape , 365 U. S. 167, 171 (1961) . A Federal Court of Appeals decision written by a future Justice of this Court adopted the same understanding of the Privileges or Immunities Clause. See, e.g. , United States v. Hall , 26 F. Cas. 79, 82 (No. 15,282) (CC SD Ala. 1871) (Woods, J.) (“We think, therefore, that the . . . rights enumerated in the first eight articles of amendment to the constitution of the United States, are the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States”). In addition, two of the era’s major constitutional treatises reflected the understanding that §1 would protect constitutionally enumerated rights from state abridgment. 14 A third such treatise unambiguously indicates that the Privileges or Immunities Clause accomplished this task. G. Paschal, The Constitution of the United States 290 (1868) (explaining that the rights listed in §1 had “already been guarantied” by Article IV and the Bill of Rights, but that “[t]he new feature declared” by §1 was that these rights, “which had been construed to apply only to the national government, are thus imposed upon the States”). Another example of public understanding comes from United States Attorney Daniel Corbin’s statement in an 1871 Ku Klux Klan prosecution. Corbin cited Barron and declared: “[T]he fourteenth amendment changes all that theory, and lays the same restriction upon the States that before lay upon the Congress of the United States—that, as Congress heretofore could not interfere with the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms, now, after the adoption of the fourteenth amendment, the State cannot interfere with the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms. The right to keep and bear arms is included in the fourteenth amendment, under ‘privileges and immunities.’ ” Proceedings in the Ku Klux Trials at Columbia, S. C., in the United States Circuit Court, November Term, 1871, p. 147 (1872). * * * This evidence plainly shows that the ratifying public understood the Privileges or Immunities Clause to protect constitutionally enumerated rights, including the right to keep and bear arms. As the Court demonstrates, there can be no doubt that §1 was understood to enforce the Second Amendment against the States. See ante , at 22–33. In my view, this is because the right to keep and bear arms was understood to be a privilege of American citizenship guaranteed by the Privileges or Immunities Clause. C The next question is whether the Privileges or Immunities Clause merely prohibits States from discriminating among citizens if they recognize the Second Amendment ’s right to keep and bear arms, or whether the Clause requires States to recognize the right. The municipal respondents, Chicago and Oak Park, argue for the former interpretation. They contend that the Second Amendment , as applied to the States through the Fourteenth, authorizes a State to impose an outright ban on handgun possession such as the ones at issue here so long as a State applies it to all citizens equally. 15 The Court explains why this antidiscrimination-only reading of §1 as a whole is “implausible.” Ante , at 31 (citing Brief for Municipal Respondents 64). I agree, but because I think it is the Privileges or Immunities Clause that applies this right to the States, I must explain why this Clause in particular protects against more than just state discrimination, and in fact establishes a minimum baseline of rights for all American citizens. 1 I begin, again, with the text. The Privileges or Immunities Clause opens with the command that “ No State shall ” abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States. Amdt. 14, §1 (emphasis added). The very same phrase opens Article I, §10 of the Constitution, which prohibits the States from “pass[ing] any Bill of Attainder” or “ex post facto Law,” among other things. Article I, §10 is one of the few constitutional provisions that limits state authority. In Barron , when Chief Justice Marshall interpreted the Bill of Rights as lacking “plain and intelligible language” restricting state power to infringe upon individual liberties, he pointed to Article I, §10 as an example of text that would have accomplished that task. 7 Pet., at 250. Indeed, Chief Justice Marshall would later describe Article I, §10 as “a bill of rights for the people of each state.” Fletcher v. Peck , 6 Cranch 87, 138 (1810). Thus, the fact that the Privileges or Immunities Clause uses the command “[n]o State shall”—which Article IV, §2 does not—strongly suggests that the former imposes a greater restriction on state power than the latter. This interpretation is strengthened when one considers that the Privileges or Immunities Clause uses the verb “abridge,” rather than “discriminate,” to describe the limit it imposes on state authority. The Webster’s dictionary in use at the time of Reconstruction defines the word “abridge” to mean “[t]o deprive; to cut off; . . . as, to abridge one of his rights.” Webster, An American Dictionary of the English Language, at 6. The Clause is thus best understood to impose a limitation on state power to infringe upon pre-existing substantive rights. It raises no indication that the Framers of the Clause used the word “abridge” to prohibit only discrimination. This most natural textual reading is underscored by a well-publicized revision to the Fourteenth Amendment that the Reconstruction Congress rejected. After several Southern States refused to ratify the Amendment, President Johnson met with their Governors to draft a compromise. N. Y. Times, Feb. 5, 1867, p. 5. Their proposal eliminated Congress’ power to enforce the Amendment (granted in §5), and replaced the Privileges or Immunities Clause in §1 with the following: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States, and of the States in which they reside, and the Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States .” Draft reprinted in 1 Documentary History of Reconstruction 240 (W. Fleming ed. 1950) (hereinafter Fleming). Significantly, this proposal removed the “[n]o State shall” directive and the verb “abridge” from §1, and also changed the class of rights to be protected from those belonging to “citizens of the United States” to those of the “citizens in the several States.” This phrasing is materially indistinguishable from Article IV, §2, which generally was understood as an antidiscrimination provision alone. See supra , at 15–18. The proposal thus strongly indicates that at least the President of the United States and several southern Governors thought that the Privileges or Immunities Clause, which they unsuccessfully tried to revise, prohibited more than just state-sponsored discrimination. 2 The argument that the Privileges or Immunities Clause prohibits no more than discrimination often is followed by a claim that public discussion of the Clause, and of §1 generally, was not extensive. Because of this, the argument goes, §1 must not have been understood to accomplish such a significant task as subjecting States to federal enforcement of a minimum baseline of rights. That argument overlooks critical aspects of the Nation’s history that underscored the need for, and wide agreement upon, federal enforcement of constitutionally enumerated rights against the States, including the right to keep and bear arms. a I turn first to public debate at the time of ratification. It is true that the congressional debates over §1 were relatively brief. It is also true that there is little evidence of extensive debate in the States. Many state legislatures did not keep records of their debates, and the few records that do exist reveal only modest discussion. See Curtis 145. These facts are not surprising. First, however consequential we consider the question today, the nationalization of constitutional rights was not the most controversial aspect of the Fourteenth Amendment at the time of its ratification. The Nation had just endured a tumultuous civil war, and §§2, 3, and 4—which reduced the representation of States that denied voting rights to blacks, deprived most former Confederate officers of the power to hold elective office, and required States to disavow Confederate war debts—were far more polarizing and consumed far more political attention. See Wildenthal 1600; Hardy, Original Popular Understanding of the Fourteenth Amendment as Reflected in the Print Media of 1866–1868, 30 Whittier L. Rev. 695, 699 (2009). Second, the congressional debates on the Fourteenth Amendment reveal that many representatives, and probably many citizens, believed that the Thirteenth Amendment , the 1866 Civil Rights legislation, or some combination of the two, had already enforced constitutional rights against the States. Justice Black’s dissent in Adamson chronicles this point in detail. 332 U. S., at 107–108 (Appendix to dissenting opinion). Regardless of whether that understanding was accurate as a matter of constitutional law, it helps to explain why Congressmen had little to say during the debates about §1. See ibid. Third, while Barron made plain that the Bill of Rights was not legally enforceable against the States, see supra , at 2, the significance of that holding should not be overstated. Like the Framers, see supra , at 14–15, many 19th-century Americans understood the Bill of Rights to declare inalienable rights that pre-existed all government. Thus, even though the Bill of Rights technically applied only to the Federal Government, many believed that it declared rights that no legitimate government could abridge. Chief Justice Henry Lumpkin’s decision for the Georgia Supreme Court in Nunn v. State , 1 Ga. 243 (1846), illustrates this view. In assessing state power to regulate firearm possession, Lumpkin wrote that he was “aware that it has been decided, that [the Second Amendment ], like other amendments adopted at the same time, is a restriction upon the government of the United States, and does not extend to the individual States.” Id. , at 250. But he still considered the right to keep and bear arms as “an unalienable right, which lies at the bottom of every free government, ” and thus found the States bound to honor it. Ibid . Other state courts adopted similar positions with respect to the right to keep and bear arms and other enumerated rights. 16 Some courts even suggested that the protections in the Bill of Rights were legally enforceable against the States, Barron notwithstanding. 17 A prominent treatise of the era took the same position. W. Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States of America 124–125 (2d ed. 1829) (reprint 2009) (arguing that certain of the first eight Amendments “appl[y] to the state legislatures” because those Amendments “form parts of the declared rights of the people, of which neither the state powers nor those of the Union can ever deprive them”); id. , at 125–126 (describing the Second Amendment “right of the people to keep and bear arms” as “a restraint on both” Congress and the States); see also Heller , 554 U. S., at __ (slip op., at 34) (describing Rawle’s treatise as “influential”). Certain abolitionist leaders adhered to this view as well. Lysander Spooner championed the popular abolitionist argument that slavery was inconsistent with constitutional principles, citing as evidence the fact that it deprived black Americans of the “natural right of all men ‘to keep and bear arms’ for their personal defence,” which he believed the Constitution “prohibit[ed] both Congress and the State governments from infringing.” L. Spooner, The Unconstitutionality of Slavery 98 (1860). In sum, some appear to have believed that the Bill of Rights did apply to the States, even though this Court had squarely rejected that theory. See, e.g. , supra , at 27–28 (recounting Rep. Hale’s argument to this effect). Many others believed that the liberties codified in the Bill of Rights were ones that no State should abridge, even though they understood that the Bill technically did not apply to States. These beliefs, combined with the fact that most state constitutions recognized many, if not all, of the individual rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, made the need for federal enforcement of constitutional liberties against the States an afterthought. See ante , at 29 (opinion of the Court) (noting that, “[i]n 1868, 22 of the 37 States in the Union had state constitutional provisions explicitly protecting the right to keep and bear arms”). That changed with the national conflict over slavery. b In the contentious years leading up to the Civil War, those who sought to retain the institution of slavery found that to do so, it was necessary to eliminate more and more of the basic liberties of slaves, free blacks, and white abolitionists. Congressman Tobias Plants explained that slaveholders “could not hold [slaves] safely where dissent was permitted,” so they decided that “all dissent must be suppressed by the strong hand of power.” 39th Cong. Globe 1013. The measures they used were ruthless, repressed virtually every right recognized in the Constitution, and demonstrated that preventing only discriminatory state firearms restrictions would have been a hollow assurance for liberty. Public reaction indicates that the American people understood this point. The overarching goal of pro-slavery forces was to repress the spread of abolitionist thought and the concomitant risk of a slave rebellion. Indeed, it is difficult to overstate the extent to which fear of a slave uprising gripped slaveholders and dictated the acts of Southern legislatures. Slaves and free blacks represented a substantial percentage of the population and posed a severe threat to Southern order if they were not kept in their place. According to the 1860 Census, slaves represented one quarter or more of the population in 11 of the 15 slave States, nearly half the population in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana, and more than 50% of the population in Mississippi and South Carolina. Statistics of the United States (Including Mortality, Property, &c.,) in 1860, The Eighth Census 336–350 (1866). The Southern fear of slave rebellion was not unfounded. Although there were others, two particularly notable slave uprisings heavily influenced slaveholders in the South. In 1822, a group of free blacks and slaves led by Denmark Vesey planned a rebellion in which they would slay their masters and flee to Haiti. H. Aptheker, American Negro Slave Revolts 268–270 (1983). The plan was foiled, leading to the swift arrest of 130 blacks, and the execution of 37, including Vesey. Id. , at 271. Still, slaveowners took notice—it was reportedly feared that as many as 6,600 to 9,000 slaves and free blacks were involved in the plot. Id. , at 272. A few years later, the fear of rebellion was realized. An uprising led by Nat Turner took the lives of at least 57 whites before it was suppressed. Id. , at 300–302. The fear generated by these and other rebellions led Southern legislatures to take particularly vicious aim at the rights of free blacks and slaves to speak or to keep and bear arms for their defense. Teaching slaves to read (even the Bible) was a criminal offense punished severely in some States. See K. Stampp, The Peculiar Institution: Slavery in the Ante-bellum South 208, 211 (1956). Virginia made it a crime for a member of an “abolition” society to enter the State and argue “that the owners of slaves have no property in the same, or advocate or advise the abolition of slavery.” 1835–1836 Va. Acts ch. 66, p. 44. Other States prohibited the circulation of literature denying a master’s right to property in his slaves and passed laws requiring postmasters to inspect the mails in search of such material. C. Eaton, The Freedom-of-Thought Struggle in the Old South 118–143, 199–200 (1964). Many legislatures amended their laws prohibiting slaves from carrying firearms 18 to apply the prohibition to free blacks as well. See, e.g. , Act of Dec. 23, 1833, §7, 1833 Ga. Acts pp. 226, 228 (declaring that “it shall not be lawful for any free person of colour in this state, to own, use, or carry fire arms of any description whatever”); H. Aptheker, Nat Turner’s Slave Rebellion 74– 76, 83–94 (1966) (discussing similar Maryland and Virginia statutes); see also Act of Mar. 15, 1852, ch. 206, 1852 Miss. Laws p. 328 (repealing laws allowing free blacks to obtain firearms licenses); Act of Jan. 31, 1831, 1831 Fla. Acts p. 30 (same). Florida made it the “duty” of white citizen “patrol[s] to search negro houses or other suspected places, for fire arms.” Act of Feb. 17, 1833, ch. 671, 1833 Fla. Acts pp. 26, 30. If they found any firearms, the patrols were to take the offending slave or free black “to the nearest justice of the peace,” whereupon he would be “severely punished” by “whipping on the bare back, not exceeding thirty-nine lashes,” unless he could give a “plain and satisfactory” explanation of how he came to possess the gun. Ibid. Southern blacks were not alone in facing threats to their personal liberty and security during the antebellum era. Mob violence in many Northern cities presented dangers as well. Cottrol & Diamond, The Second Amendment : Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration, 80 Geo. L. J. 309, 340 (1991) (hereinafter Cottrol) (recounting a July 1834 mob attack against “churches, homes, and businesses of white abolitionists and blacks” in New York that involved “upwards of twenty thousand people and required the intervention of the militia to suppress”); ibid. (noting an uprising in Boston nine years later in which a confrontation between a group of white sailors and four blacks led “a mob of several hundred whites ” to “attac[k] and severely beat every black they could find”). c After the Civil War, Southern anxiety about an uprising among the newly freed slaves peaked. As Representative Thaddeus Stevens is reported to have said, “[w]hen it was first proposed to free the slaves, and arm the blacks, did not half the nation tremble? The prim conservatives, the snobs, and the male waiting-maids in Congress, were in hysterics.” K. Stampp, The Era of Reconstruction, 1865–1877, p. 104 (1965) (hereinafter Era of Reconstruction). As the Court explains, this fear led to “systematic efforts” in the “old Confederacy” to disarm the more than 180,000 freedmen who had served in the Union Army, as well as other free blacks. See ante , at 23. Some States formally prohibited blacks from possessing firearms. Ante, at 23–24 (quoting 1865 Miss. Laws p. 165, §1, reprinted in 1 Fleming 289). Others enacted legislation prohibiting blacks from carrying firearms without a license, a restriction not imposed on whites. See, e.g. , La. Statute of 1865, reprinted in id., at 280. Additionally, “[t]hroughout the South, armed parties, often consisting of ex- Confederate soldiers serving in the state militias, forcibly took firearms from newly freed slaves.” Ante , at 24. As the Court makes crystal clear, if the Fourteenth Amendment “had outlawed only those laws that discriminate on the basis of race or previous condition of servitude, African-Americans in the South would likely have remained vulnerable to attack by many of their worst abusers: the state militia and state peace officers.” Ante, at 32. In the years following the Civil War, a law banning firearm possession outright “would have been nondiscriminatory only in the formal sense,” for it would have “left firearms in the hands of the militia and local peace officers.” Ibid. Evidence suggests that the public understood this at the time the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified. The publicly circulated Report of the Joint Committee on Reconstruction extensively detailed these abuses, see ante, at 23–24 (collecting examples), and statements by citizens indicate that they looked to the Committee to provide a federal solution to this problem, see, e.g. , 39th Cong. Globe 337 (remarks of Rep. Sumner) (introducing “a memorial from the colored citizens of the State of South Carolina” asking for, inter alia , “constitutional protection in keeping arms, in holding public assemblies, and in complete liberty of speech and of the press”). One way in which the Federal Government responded was to issue military orders countermanding Southern arms legislation. See, e.g. , Jan. 17, 1866, order from Major General D. E. Sickles, reprinted in E. McPherson, The Political History of the United States of America During the Period of Reconstruction 37 (1871) (“The constitutional rights of all loyal and well-disposed inhabitants to bear arms will not be infringed”). The significance of these steps was not lost on those they were designed to protect. After one such order was issued, The Christian Recorder, published by the African Methodist Episcopal Church, published the following editorial: “ ‘We have several times alluded to the fact that the Constitution of the United States, guaranties to every citizen the right to keep and bear arms. . . . All men, without the distinction of color, have the right to keep arms to defend their homes, families, or themselves.’ “We are glad to learn that [the] Commissioner for this State . . . has given freedmen to understand that they have as good a right to keep fire arms as any other citizens. The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land, and we will be governed by that at present.” Right to Bear Arms, Christian Recorder (Phila.), Feb. 24, 1866, pp. 29–30. The same month, The Loyal Georgian carried a letter to the editor asking “Have colored persons a right to own and carry fire arms?—A Colored Citizen.” The editors responded as follows: “Almost every day, we are asked questions similar to the above. We answer certainly you have the same right to own and carry fire arms that other citizens have. You are not only free but citizens of the United States and, as such, entitled to the same privileges granted to other citizens by the Constitution of the United States. . . . . . “. . . Article II, of the amendments to the Constitution of the United States, gives the people the right to bear arms and states that this right shall not be infringed. . . . All men, without distinction of color, have the right to keep arms to defend their homes, families or themselves.” Letter to the Editor, Loyal Georgian (Augusta), Feb. 3, 1866, p. 3. These statements are consistent with the arguments of abolitionists during the antebellum era that slavery, and the slave States’ efforts to retain it, violated the constitutional rights of individuals—rights the abolitionists described as among the privileges and immunities of citizenship. See, e.g. , J. Tiffany, Treatise on the Unconstitutionality of American Slavery 56 (1849) (reprint 1969) (“pledg[ing] . . . to see that all the rights, privileges, and immunities, granted by the constitution of the United States, are extended to all”); id. , at 99 (describing the “right to keep and bear arms” as one of those rights secured by “the constitution of the United States”). The problem abolitionists sought to remedy was that, under Dred Scott , blacks were not entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens under the Federal Constitution and that, in many States, whatever inalienable rights state law recognized did not apply to blacks. See, e.g. , Cooper v. Savannah , 4 Ga. 68, 72 (1848) (deciding, just two years after Chief Justice Lumpkin’s opinion in Nunn recognizing the right to keep and bear arms, see supra , at 39, that “[f]ree persons of color have never been recognized here as citizens; they are not entitled to bear arms”). Section 1 guaranteed the rights of citizenship in the United States and in the several States without regard to race. But it was understood that liberty would be assured little protection if §1 left each State to decide which privileges or immunities of United States citizenship it would protect. As Frederick Douglass explained before §1’s adoption, “the Legislatures of the South can take from him the right to keep and bear arms, as they can—they would not allow a negro to walk with a cane where I came from, they would not allow five of them to assemble together.” In What New Skin Will the Old Snake Come Forth? An Address Delivered in New York, New York, May 10, 1865, reprinted in 4 The Frederick Douglass Papers 79, 83–84 (J. Blassingame & J. McKivigan eds., 1991) (footnote omitted). “Notwithstanding the provision in the Constitution of the United States, that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged,” Douglass explained that “the black man has never had the right either to keep or bear arms.” Id ., at 84. Absent a constitutional amendment to enforce that right against the States, he insisted that “the work of the Abolitionists [wa]s not finished.” Ibid. This history confirms what the text of the Privileges or Immunities Clause most naturally suggests: Consistent with its command that “[n]o State shall … abridge” the rights of United States citizens, the Clause establishes a minimum baseline of federal rights, and the constitutional right to keep and bear arms plainly was among them. 19 III My conclusion is contrary to this Court’s precedents, which hold that the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is not a privilege of United States citizenship. See Cruikshank , 92 U. S., at 548–549, 551–553. I must, therefore, consider whether stare decisis requires retention of those precedents. As mentioned at the outset, my inquiry is limited to the right at issue here. Thus, I do not endeavor to decide in this case whether, or to what extent, the Privileges or Immunities Clause applies any other rights enumerated in the Constitution against the States. 20 Nor do I suggest that the stare decisis considerations surrounding the application of the right to keep and bear arms against the States would be the same as those surrounding another right protected by the Privileges or Immunities Clause. I consider stare decisis only as it applies to the question presented here. A This inquiry begins with the Slaughter-House Cases . There, this Court upheld a Louisiana statute granting a monopoly on livestock butchering in and around the city of New Orleans to a newly incorporated company. 16 Wall. 36. Butchers excluded by the monopoly sued, claiming that the statute violated the Privileges or Immunities Clause because it interfered with their right to pursue and “exercise their trade.” Id. , at 60. This Court rejected the butchers’ claim, holding that their asserted right was not a privilege or immunity of American citizenship, but one governed by the States alone. The Court held that the Privileges or Immunities Clause protected only rights of federal citizenship—those “which owe their existence to the Federal government, its National character, its Constitution, or its laws,” id. , at 79—and did not protect any of the rights of state citizenship, id. , at 74. In other words, the Court defined the two sets of rights as mutually exclusive. After separating these two sets of rights, the Court defined the rights of state citizenship as “embrac[ing] nearly every civil right for the establishment and protection of which organized government is instituted”—that is, all those rights listed in Corfield . 16 Wall., at 76 (referring to “those rights” that “Judge Washington” described). That left very few rights of federal citizenship for the Privileges or Immunities Clause to protect. The Court suggested a handful of possibilities, such as the “right of free access to [federal] seaports,” protection of the Federal Government while traveling “on the high seas,” and even two rights listed in the Constitution. Id. , at 79 (noting “[t]he right to peaceably assemble” and “the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus ”); see supra , at 4. But its decision to interpret the rights of state and federal citizenship as mutually exclusive led the Court in future cases to conclude that constitutionally enumerated rights were excluded from the Privileges or Immunities Clause’s scope. See Cruikshank , supra . I reject that understanding. There was no reason to interpret the Privileges or Immunities Clause as putting the Court to the extreme choice of interpreting the “privileges and immunities” of federal citizenship to mean either all those rights listed in Corfield , or almost no rights at all. 16 Wall., at 76. The record is scant that the public understood the Clause to make the Federal Government “a perpetual censor upon all legislation of the States” as the Slaughter-House majority feared. Id. , at 78. For one thing, Corfield listed the “elective franchise” as one of the privileges and immunities of “citizens of the several states,” 6 F. Cas., at 552, yet Congress and the States still found it necessary to adopt the Fifteenth Amendment —which protects “[t]he right of citizens of the United States to vote”—two years after the Fourteenth Amendment ’s passage. If the Privileges or Immunities Clause were understood to protect every conceivable civil right from state abridgment, the Fifteenth Amendment would have been redundant. The better view, in light of the States and Federal Government’s shared history of recognizing certain inalienable rights in their citizens, is that the privileges and immunities of state and federal citizenship overlap. This is not to say that the privileges and immunities of state and federal citizenship are the same. At the time of the Fourteenth Amendment ’s ratification, States performed many more functions than the Federal Government, and it is unlikely that, simply by referring to “privileges or immunities,” the Framers of §1 meant to transfer every right mentioned in Corfield to congressional oversight. As discussed, “privileges” and “immunities” were understood only as synonyms for “rights.” See supra , at 9–11. It was their attachment to a particular group that gave them content, and the text and history recounted here indicate that the rights of United States citizens were not perfectly identical to the rights of citizens “in the several States.” Justice Swayne, one of the dissenters in Slaughter-House , made the point clear: “The citizen of a State has the same fundamental rights as a citizen of the United States, and also certain others , local in their character, arising from his relation to the State, and in addition, those which belong to the citizen of the United States, he being in that relation also. There may thus be a double citizenship, each having some rights peculiar to itself. It is only over those which belong to the citizen of the United States that the category here in question throws the shield of its protection.” 16 Wall., at 126 (emphasis added). Because the privileges and immunities of American citizenship include rights enumerated in the Constitution, they overlap to at least some extent with the privileges and immunities traditionally recognized in citizens in the several States. A separate question is whether the privileges and immunities of American citizenship include any rights besides those enumerated in the Constitution. The four dissenting Justices in Slaughter-House would have held that the Privileges or Immunities Clause protected the unenumerated right that the butchers in that case asserted. See id. , at 83 (Field, J., dissenting); id. , at 111 (Bradley, J., dissenting); id. , at 124 (Swayne, J., dissenting). Because this case does not involve an unenumerated right, it is not necessary to resolve the question whether the Clause protects such rights, or whether the Court’s judgment in Slaughter- House was correct. Still, it is argued that the mere possibility that the Privileges or Immunities Clause may enforce unenumerated rights against the States creates “ ‘special hazards’ ” that should prevent this Court from returning to the original meaning of the Clause. 21 Post , at 3 ( Stevens, J., dissenting). Ironically, the same objection applies to the Court’s substantive due process jurisprudence, which illustrates the risks of granting judges broad discretion to recognize individual constitutional rights in the absence of textual or historical guideposts. But I see no reason to assume that such hazards apply to the Privileges or Immunities Clause. The mere fact that the Clause does not expressly list the rights it protects does not render it incapable of principled judicial application. The Constitution contains many provisions that require an examination of more than just constitutional text to determine whether a particular act is within Congress’ power or is otherwise prohibited. See, e.g. , Art. I, §8, cl. 18 (Necessary and Proper Clause); Amdt. 8 (Cruel and Unusual Punishments Clause). When the inquiry focuses on what the ratifying era understood the Privileges or Immunities Clause to mean, interpreting it should be no more “hazardous” than interpreting these other constitutional provisions by using the same approach. To be sure, interpreting the Privileges or Immunities Clause may produce hard questions. But they will have the advantage of being questions the Constitution asks us to answer. I believe those questions are more worthy of this Court’s attention—and far more likely to yield discernable answers—than the substantive due process questions the Court has for years created on its own, with neither textual nor historical support. Finding these impediments to returning to the original meaning overstated, I reject Slaughter-House insofar as it precludes any overlap between the privileges and immunities of state and federal citizenship. I next proceed to the stare decisis considerations surrounding the precedent that expressly controls the question presented here. B Three years after Slaughter-House , the Court in Cruikshank squarely held that the right to keep and bear arms was not a privilege of American citizenship, thereby overturning the convictions of militia members responsible for the brutal Colfax Massacre. See supra , at 4–5. Cruikshank is not a precedent entitled to any respect. The flaws in its interpretation of the Privileges or Immunities Clause are made evident by the preceding evidence of its original meaning, and I would reject the holding on that basis alone. But, the consequences of Cruikshank warrant mention as well. Cruikshank ’s holding that blacks could look only to state governments for protection of their right to keep and bear arms enabled private forces, often with the assistance of local governments, to subjugate the newly freed slaves and their descendants through a wave of private violence designed to drive blacks from the voting booth and force them into peonage, an effective return to slavery. Without federal enforcement of the inalienable right to keep and bear arms, these militias and mobs were tragically successful in waging a campaign of terror against the very people the Fourteenth Amendment had just made citizens. Take, for example, the Hamburg Massacre of 1876. There, a white citizen militia sought out and murdered a troop of black militiamen for no other reason than that they had dared to conduct a celebratory Fourth of July parade through their mostly black town. The white militia commander, “Pitchfork” Ben Tillman, later described this massacre with pride: “[T]he leading white men of Edgefield” had decided “to seize the first opportunity that the negroes might offer them to provoke a riot and teach the negroes a lesson by having the whites demonstrate their superiority by killing as many of them as was justifiable.” S. Kantrowitz, Ben Tillman & the Reconstruction of White Supremacy 67 (2000) (ellipsis, brackets, and internal quotation marks omitted). None of the perpetrators of the Hamburg murders was ever brought to justice. 22 Organized terrorism like that perpetuated by Tillman and his cohorts proliferated in the absence of federal enforcement of constitutional rights. Militias such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Knights of the White Camellia, the White Brotherhood, the Pale Faces, and the ’76 Association spread terror among blacks and white Republicans by breaking up Republican meetings, threatening political leaders, and whipping black militiamen. Era of Reconstruction, 199–200; Curtis 156. These groups raped, murdered, lynched, and robbed as a means of intimidating, and instilling pervasive fear in, those whom they despised. A. Trelease, White Terror: The Ku Klux Klan Conspiracy and Southern Reconstruction 28–46 (1995). Although Congress enacted legislation to suppress these activities, 23 Klan tactics remained a constant presence in the lives of Southern blacks for decades. Between 1882 and 1968, there were at least 3,446 reported lynchings of blacks in the South. Cottrol 351–352. They were tortured and killed for a wide array of alleged crimes, without even the slightest hint of due process. Emmit Till, for example, was killed in 1955 for allegedly whistling at a white woman. S. Whitfield, A Death in the Delta: The Story of Emmett Till 15–31 (1988). The fates of other targets of mob violence were equally depraved. See, e.g. , Lynched Negro and Wife Were First Mutilated, Vicksburg (Miss.) Evening Post, Feb. 8, 1904, reprinted in R. Ginzburg, 100 Years of Lynchings 63 (1988); Negro Shot Dead for Kissing His White Girlfriend, Chi. Defender, Feb. 31, 1915, in id. , at 95 (reporting incident in Florida); La. Negro Is Burned Alive Screaming “I Didn’t Do It,” Cleveland Gazette, Dec. 13, 1914, in id. , at 93 (reporting incident in Louisiana). The use of firearms for self-defense was often the only way black citizens could protect themselves from mob violence. As Eli Cooper, one target of such violence, is said to have explained, “ ‘[t]he Negro has been run over for fifty years, but it must stop now, and pistols and shotguns are the only weapons to stop a mob.’ ” Church Burnings Follow Negro Agitator’s Lynching, Chicago Defender, Sept. 6, 1919, in id. , at 124. Sometimes, as in Cooper’s case, self-defense did not succeed. He was dragged from his home by a mob and killed as his wife looked on. Ibid. But at other times, the use of firearms allowed targets of mob violence to survive. One man recalled the night during his childhood when his father stood armed at a jail until morning to ward off lynchers. See Cottrol, 354. The experience left him with a sense, “not ‘of powerlessness, but of the “possibilities of salvation” ’ ” that came from standing up to intimidation. Ibid. In my view, the record makes plain that the Framers of the Privileges or Immunities Clause and the ratifying-era public understood—just as the Framers of the Second Amendment did—that the right to keep and bear arms was essential to the preservation of liberty. The record makes equally plain that they deemed this right necessary to include in the minimum baseline of federal rights that the Privileges or Immunities Clause established in the wake of the War over slavery. There is nothing about Cruikshank ’s contrary holding that warrants its retention. * * * I agree with the Court that the Second Amendment is fully applicable to the States. I do so because the right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment as a privilege of American citizenship. Notice anything wrong? Send Silk feedback
These are your boys. I despise judges and how they have perverted our God given inalienable rights into privileges to be doled out for fees. Or, on a whim. I spit on them and those who approve of them like you and misswhite.
Ya didn't read the decision.
Yep. And DCW cheered, totally ignorant of what it will mean to the right to keep and bear arms. Already the 2nd Circuit Court has ruled that the second amendment doesn't protect assault-style weapons because they're not commonly used for self-defense in the home (a Heller ruling).
I don't need a pump. Know how I get 10 inches? I fold it in half.
Yep. The braying asses hate the truth, hate inherent state police powers, hate dual sovereignty, hate the separation of powers, hate the Tenth Amendment, hate republican forms of representative government, hate a Constitution limiting the federal government to delegated powers, and hate original intent. But they love their black robed philosopher princes, penis pumps, and judicial legislation. This is partly due to their extraordinary stupidity, partly due to their willful ignorance, and partly due to just plain old ignorance.
Do you know how [name redacted] gets 10 inches? He bends over and grabs his ankles.
And they reserve a special hatred for the rule of law.
It's a long list. I missed one.
misterwhite claims; --- And according to the State of California (and some other socialistic States), -- their gun prohibitions do not so violate. --- Which makes gun grabbing clowns like misterwhite and roscoe happy as hell..... Whereupon roscoe claims;--- Roscoe (the real cretin here) agrees with misterwhite that some States have the power to prohibit arms, and pretends that it's a federalist position.
He is the REAL ROSCOE from Freeperthon country. The GODAMNED LIAR won't admit it.
Yep, roscoe , the braying ass, hates the truth, loves state police power, hates the separation of powers, hates the Tenth Amendment, hates republican forms of representative government, hates a Constitution limiting the federal government to delegated powers, and hates original intent. Exactly why he and misterwhite love big brother type govt is a minor mystery, best left to mental health experts.
I used to believe that the RKBA was an individual right, possessed by the British subjects of the colonies, which they retained after the Declaration, and after the Articles, and which they explicitly refused to delegate to the Federal government of limited powers which they created pursuant to the Constitution which they ratified. The Federal government was prohibited from infringing upon the individual right to keep and bear arms. That is what I used to believe. Now I know better, "because SCOTUS opinions only apply to the case at issue," and now I realize that only Dick Heller, Otis McDonald, and the others in the McDonald case (Adam Orlov, Colleen Lawson, and David Lawson) have established their individual right to keep and bear arms. For the rest of America, it has not been decided. As for state constitutions, what they can do is determined by their provisions. They must not be contrary to the Federal Constitution and laws. Prior to the 19th Amendment, the Federal Constitution did not guarantee anyone the right to vote. Where a state said women were not eligible to vote, they were not eligible to vote. The right to vote was regulated by the state. Some states made female citizens ineligible while alien males were made eligible. To this day, whether the people of the state get to participate in a popular election for President of the United States is a decision made by each individual state. Rhode Island did not even have a constitution until 1842.
"[B]ecause SCOTUS opinions only apply to the case at issue," McDonald v. Chicago only applies to Otis McDonald and his fellow petitioners Adam Orlov, Colleen Lawson, and David Lawson. A SCOTUS case with tpaine as a named party has not yet been decided. Which is fortunate for you as McDonald, which does not apply to you, states: McDonald slip op at 39-40:
They never read.
Roscoe (the cretin) agrees with misterwhite that some States have the power to prohibit arms, and pretends that it's a federalist position. But it makes no real difference, because SCOTUS opinions only apply to the case at issue. -- SCOTUS opinions do not change the constitution.. You barracks house lawyer types have always raised a fuss about precedents. -- Precedence is useful to lazy judges, etc, -- but it doesn't change our law of the land, - our Constitution.. What say you, nolu chan?? Then we agree on the basics about our 2nd, and how States must conform to it, --- and that misterwhite/roscoe are wrong in their contention that some States can prohibit arms.. Thanks.. Although your sarcasm about SCOTUS opinions is, as usual, idiotic...
Nolu attempts a sarcastic/humerous reply, -- and fails; ---
What is a disarmist?
Yep. And DCW cheered, totally ignorant of what it will mean to the right to keep and bear arms. OK liar. Link or stfu
No. Your delusional brainfarts do not transform what I said into something you imagine. The text of the 2nd Amendment does not define what the pre-existing right to keep and bear arms is. The authors considered it self-explanatory. They could not have reasonably foreseen the meaningless interpretations to be invented by delusional bloggers of the future. I am so sorry if agreeing with your delusional opinions produces results which even you must admit are idiotic.
Of course, the majority opinion of the court does not apply to anyone outside of the case at hand, and no concurring opinion has ever applied to anyone at all, not even the person writing it. That's why a little known, secret codicil of the Constitution grants to the tpaine Court of the Imagination, the infinite wisdom, and the almighty power, to point out the errors of the U.S. Supreme Court, dismiss offending opinions, and issue correct opinions. It would be a serious concern, but no actual cases, with real parties, are argued at the tpaine Court of the Imagination, and its opinions apply to nobody, not even tpaine.
And they never identify their superior expert source.
NYSRPA v Cuomo, WDNY 1:13-cv-00291-WMS, Doc 140, OPINION AND ORDER (12/31/13) At 5: NYSRPA v Cuomo, 2nd Cir. 14-36-cv (19 Oct 2015) at 19: NYSRPA v Cuomo, 2nd Cir. 14-36-cv (19 Oct 2015) at 21:
"I write separately because I believe there is a more straightforward path to this conclusion, one that is more faithful to the Fourteenth Amendment’s text and history." --Justice Thomas Clarence's use of a 14th Amendment "privileges and immunities" wildcard to judicially alter the original intent of 2nd Amendment is functionally equivalent to the use of a "substantive due process" by the Court. It's pretty much the opposite of straightforward. Even Justice Scalia, who has himself abandoned original intent for substantive due process and judicial legislation, derided the privileges and immunities dodge, stating, "What you argue is the darling of the professoriate, for sure, but it's also contrary to 140 years of our jurisprudence."
So what protects the right of state militia members to keep and bear militia-ty type weapons (machine guns, grenade launchers, etc.)? type weapons (machine guns, grenade launchers, etc.)?
In Heller, the Supreme Court, based on an extensive textual and historical analysis, announced that the Second Amendment's operative clause codified a pre-existing individual right to possess and carry weapons. True that. But the codification contained little codification. As the 2nd Circuit noted: In other words, federal district court judges are now empowered to read their own policy preferences into the new 2nd Amendment at will and ad hoc. How wonderful. /sarcasm
tpaine
What kind of source do you need? I have stated firmly that I despise what the courts have done, they have made a mockery of what God given inalienable rights means. If you refuse to believe that, that's on you sport. Meanwhile, I spit on all those who argue about the curtain colors on the titanic.
Nothing protects the falsely declared "right" to keep and bear military weapons. The militia and the military are two different things. The right to keep and bear arms is the common law right that the people brought with them when the left colonial status behind and when they set up their constitutional form of government. With the Second Amendment, the people did not give a definition of it, but they provided their rationale for prohibiting the Federal government from infringing upon it. Determine what the term "right to keep and bear arms" meant in 1776 or 1789, and that is the right that is referred to and protected. It was referred to in a context that included a weak Federal government and a very small standing army which would be no match for the state militias. That context no longer exists, and hasn't existed since the civil war.
So, because the federal government has grabbed, or simply assumed so much power, the rights of the people to keep and bear arms is no longer valid? Nice twofer you have going on. You must not have kids, or, you have a cushy government job lined up for them. So maybe you can tell me, since MsWhite refuses to.... What inalienable rights do we have? What can the government not regulate into irrelevancy? The way it is now, people need permission from the government for pretty much everything. Judging by how much you enjoy posting the manure excuses made up by this same government for this, maybe you will answer.
I do not need a source. I usually provide one. You and your ilk need some source of legal authority if you expect your legal arguments to be taken seriously. A Court opinion would be nice. A legal text by a recognized legal expert would be good. The brainfart of an anonymous source, not so good. Indeed, legally there are no God-given inalienable rights, at least not in the United States. The inalienable God-given right to life? Amendment 5: By the 5th Amendment, the people clearly recognized the power of the government to enforce the death penalty, i.e., to execute, to terminate the supposedly inalienable God-given right to life. The inalienable God-given right to liberty? By Amendment 5 , the people explicitly recognized the power of the government to deprive one of the supposedly inalienable right to life or liberty, as long as due process was provided. The inalienable God-given right to the pursuit of happiness By Amendment 5 , the people explicitly recognized the power of the government to deprive one of the supposedly inalienable right to life, terminating the ability of the dearly departed to pursue the supposedly inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness, at least within this mortal coil.
Due process? Wow, are you behind the times. Don't you know the president can drop a drone on you on his say so? Nice fail
Kelo..... I guess it all depends on what 'public' means... At one time, we laughed when a degenerate said 'it depends on what the meaning of is, is'... Now, people like you don't bat an eye saying the same thing.
Quite the contrary. The RKBA is the same now as in 1776 or 1789, and just as valid. It has never been what delusional wingnuts proclaim it to be. At the time the Second Amendment was enacted, the state militias could have overwhelmed the deliberately small standing Federal army. The militias can no longer overwhelm the standing Federal army. The organized state militia were co-opted to the National Guard. The standing regular army is immense compared to the Founding and Framing era. The Federal army has changed, not the RKBA. The people still have the same right to keep and bear arms. So armed, they cannot overwhelm, or compete, with the full might of the Federal standing army. Article 1, Sec. 8, Cl. 12 provided that the Congress had the power "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years." That was supposed to use the power of the purse to restrain the Federal government from creating a huge standing army. It appears it failed.
Lawfully? No. Which is wy you did not provide any source, as usual. Fail. I know presidents can violate the law.
Do you claim that the right to property is an inalienable God-given right? Fail.
So, you believe Obomber is in jail for murder? Why not? Why is John Corzine not in Jail? Or anyone from any major bank who have pled guilty to money laundering for drug cartels? Your belief that 'law' means any friggen thing is both sad and funny at same time. The government and those connected can do any damn thing they want, and since we have no right to keep and bear arms, we just take it up the ass. Meanwhile, we can expect more copy/paste of the drapery from you.
Why not? Why is John Corzine not in Jail? Or anyone from any major bank who have pled guilty to money laundering for drug cartels? So, you believe Obama and Corzine have been tried and convicted? What major banker was charged and prosecuted? Fail.
I quoted your post. How you cannot see that is beyond me. Perhaps if you didn't want it included, you could reduce the amount of spam in your copy/paste jobs.
So, you believe Obama and Corzine have been tried and convicted? What major banker was charged and prosecuted? Fail. No, it illustrates my point precisely. The law is a joke if not enforced.
What major banker was charged and prosecuted? None, the banks themselves were fined after being found guilty. NO ONE EVER WENT TO JAIL. Even though major laws were broken. It wasn't anyone apparently in the banks who did it. It just happened all by itself, bad bank!! No soup for you!
From the beginning. Grist mill.
Hey Monica! Long time no smell!
Cleaned your penis pump lately?
He thinks he is God. "It is agreed by those who have seriously considered the subject that no individual has, of natural right, a separate property in an acre of land, for instance. By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common is the property for the moment of him who occupies it; but when he relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it. Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society." --Thomas Jefferson
Lol, using my joke? What are you, ten? (The old 'I know u are, but what am I?)
Now you're pretending you were just joking about your penis pump obsession? Grist mills.
I do have a better opinion of myself than you do, for sure. Maybe if you weren't such a worm of a 'man', you might also think better of yourself.
Dunning-Kruger Watch
Perhaps if you didn't want it included, you could reduce the amount of spam in your copy/paste jobs. I know it is in the 5th Amendment which I quoted. If your point is not that it is an inalienable God-given right, what is your point other than to change the subject? You have yet to give an example of any inalienable God-given right that is recognized as such pursuant to United States law. It has to be embarrassing that you can't claim just one that does not look ridiculous. We have done life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The original version of that was life, liberty and property.
And some think it was changed because of slavery. So what.
You are not the President. The law is no joke if you violate it. Fail.
Yes, they can under the protection clause provided for them called "diplomatic immunity" but not under color of state or federal law like what we witnessed during the Clinton administration with the President assaulting four women including Paula Jones.
Are you claiming an inalienable God-given right to property? Or have you given up trying to provide an example of such inalienable God-given rights recognized by United States law? Are you just babbling? You brought up property as an example of something or other in a discussion of your supposed inalienable God-given rights.
The right to keep and bear arms is the common law right that the people brought with them when the left colonial status behind No declaration from government is necessary to establish God given natural rights. They didn't have to "bring" rights from anywhere. Inalienable rights predate all governments and edicts. The US Constitution prohibits the government from infringing on those rights. The Second Amendment specifically prohibits government from infringing upon the right to keep and bear ARMS. That includes clubs, rocks, arrows, swords, firearms, nukes, WMD's, and what have you. If you feel the need for a Kenyan dictator to disarm you, please MOVE TO KENYA!!! And I have also said you can be killed by a drone, life and liberty with due process mean shit. If a drone targets you, maybe you can just tell it that it's illegal, that should work. Or copy/paste a whole bunch of heat sources to try and divert it. You seem to really believe pieces of paper reflect how the real world works.
The word "government" does not even appear in the Second Amendment.
The President of the United States has no "diplomatic immunity" from United States law. Foreign diplomats have diplomatic immunity from U.S. laws while in the U.S. The Paula Jones civil lawsuit was dismissed. Clinton settled while an appeal was pending. Clinton was not charged with assaulting four women. It was not a criminal suit. Judge Wright found Clinton in civil contempt of court. That was a court action, not a trial. Clinton was ordered to pay $1,202 to the court, and $90,000 to Jones's lawyers.
Homosexual doesn't appear in your name either, and yet there you go.
They're impervious to facts.
If targeted drone strikes against a U.S. citizen not convicted of a crime are legal, then that is further proof that life is not an inalienable God-given right pursuant to U.S. law. Fail.
Are you using your penis pump while you're typing?
You've noticed too? They make pretty good hit-me dolls though.
"Shall not be infringed". By whom? Anyone and everyone. Historically, government is the most likely perp, and the scofflaw .gov worshipers. And what government recognizes these imaginary unalienable God-given rights? What such supposed unalienable right do you have under U.S. law? Or are your God-given rights only enforceable in Ecclesiastical Courts and the afterlife? The U.S. Constitution specifically provides for terminating the right to life. When they execute you for a capital crime, that is about as alienated as your rights can get, supposed natural law and inalienable God-given rights notwithstanding.
The entire BoR, when enacted, applied only to the Federal government. Since the 14th Amendment, it has been selectively incorporated against the states.
So it was unconstitutional for Sheriff Andy Taylor to take away Deputy Barney Fife's bullet? Good Lord, that show was communism! Communism, I tells ya!!!
There was no "military" when the second amendment was written. The second amendment was written to protect the state militia and their arms from federal infringement. "The right to keep and bear arms is the common law right that the people brought with them when the left colonial status behind and when they set up their constitutional form of government." Correct. And each state had a constitution protecting that common law right. It's ridiculous to think that the founders expected the federal government to protect their individual right to keep and bear arms.
And the first federal execution was on June 25, 1790. I wonder if any of them ever looked up the definition of the word unalienable?
You didn't celebrate the Heller decision?
Maybe his pump was at the repair shop that day.
Yes, it had no application but to the Federal government when written. Some states did not adopt the common law in the constitution, but all either did in the constitution or by statute. The 2nd Amendment does not empower the Federal government to protect the right, it prohibits the Federal government from infringing upon it. It explicitly identifies a power that has not been delegated. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/blackstone_bk1ch1.asp Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England Book the First - Chapter the First: Of the Absolute Rights of Individuals
Are you an actual retard? Setting aside for a moment the fact it was a silly sit-com and not real life,Deputy Barny HAD NO BULLETS. They belonged to the Sheriff's Department,and the Sheriff has the right to give or take bullets from any of his employees. Secondly,they are agents of the government,as as such are NOT protected by the Second Amendment while in uniform and on duty. Off duty and not wearing the uniform or driving the police car,they have the same rights as the rest of us. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Words mean what they want them to mean, neither more nor less.
Correct. Better to say "The individual RKBA was protected by state constitutions in those states which chose to protect the right". I didn't realize Blackstone had a lisp.
No, I don't think we're related.
No, I don't think we're related. You must be a retard,or you would know we are not related. They belonged to the Sheriff's Department,and the Sheriff has the right to give or take bullets from any of his employees. When did they say that on the show? And there is the proof. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
McDonald slip op at 39-40: --- It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms. Yep, -- the above 'slip opinion' is a perfect example of an erroneous SCOTUS 'ruling' that can safely be ignored, as it only applies to this case and to Heller, -- it does NOT change our constitutional rights to arms, -- and those that use this opinion to so 'regulate' (infringe) do so at their own peril.. They are constitutional scofflaws.. Rave on nolu; --- It's obvious you can't argue about the point I've made,-- so you again attempt sarcasm, and fail. Your 'legal opinions' are becoming an LF joke.
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
You tards do love your non sequiturs. I'll give a few minutes to drool in confusion.
He won't know what a slip opinion is.
All three of these clowns seem to really believe pieces of 'legal opinion' paper reflect how the real world works. Nolu has 'legal' training, but probably failed the bar exam. -- Misterwhite/robertpaulsen once admitted to being a minor bureaucrat, -- And poor roscoe is just an idiotic sycophant. -- So their weird ideas,-- that we have no in/unalienable rights, - can all be explained as sour grape mental aberrations. The only piece of paper in the USA that matters, that reflects how the real world works, is our Constitution.
Rave on nolu; --- It's obvious you can't argue about the point I've made,-- so you again attempt sarcasm, and fail. Your 'legal opinions' are becoming an LF joke. To: nolu chan (#56) --- He won't know what a slip opinion is.--- Roscoe They're opinions that overly impress idiots like you three stooges.
I didn't realize Blackstone had a lisp. Better to say some states chose to adopt the bulk of the English common law in their constitution and some chose to do so by statute law. All 13 did, one way or another. Rhode Island did not have a constitution until 1842 when its first constitution replaced its charter of 1663. The original U.S. Supreme Court opinions, as published in 1 Dallas (1 U.S.) shared the Blackstone lisp, being printed with the olde English font.
No, you silly twit, that SCOTUS slip op is from McDonald v. Chicago. Dick Heller was not a party to it. SCOTUS was citing and quoting from Heller as precedent applicable to McDonald. While you may claim it is safe to ignore Heller, it is obvious that the U.S. Supreme Court did not do so in McDonald. Fail.
He certainly doesn't know that the McDonald slip op is not the opinion in Heller.
You tend to "get into" your own posts that broadcast judicial decisions. You appear to suggest you agree with any court decision. Why is that? Don't YOU have a unique opinion besides copying and pasting text?
I'm beginning to suspect you aren't smart enough to be a retard. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
And even then, the Constitution means nothing if a provision does not meet with the approval of tpaine. In the tpaine Court of the Imagination, the 18th Amendment was unconstitutional. http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=39707&Disp=101#C101 -- tpaine, 2015-11-17 19:05:44 ET Just one of many, many examples. tpaine has never quite been able to identify the "deemer" who deems amendments to be unconstitutional. Presumably it is tpaine as Chief Justice of his Court of the Imagination. If "[t]he only piece of paper in the USA that matters, that reflects how the real world works, is our Constitution," then 1 U.S. thru 557 U.S. may be thrown in the trash, with all more recent, unbound slip op opinions of the U.S. Supreme Court. It sounds like Jeff Probst recently reading votes on Survivor for Kelley who had just played her immunity idol. Brown v. Board of Education. Does not count. Roe v. Wade. Does not court. D.C. v Heller. Does not count. McDonald v. Chicago. Does not count. Obergefell v. Hodges. Does not count. All are invited to argue to SCOTUS that their opinions do not count.
--- the above 'slip opinion' is a perfect example of an erroneous SCOTUS 'ruling' that can safely be ignored, as it only applies to this case and to Heller, --- Yep, just as I wrote. --- We agree, -- except you may be obsessing about precedent again. Precedent doesn't change constitutional law. SCOTUS makes a lot of stupid opinions. Too bad you aren't smart enough to understand that...
I try to post things that you cannot understand to keep you occupied.
On another note...We are getting close to the holidays. Hillary Clinton is not in an orange jump suit.
"Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near"---Isaiah 55:6
No, we did not agree about what you wrote -- that the slip op opinion in McDonald only applies to Dick Heller. Even the dumbest SCOTUS opinion counts. Too bad you are not smart enough to understand that.
Really? How do your figure your own "awesomeness" to even attempt playing mind games mr. chan?
It increasingly looks like she will not be. On the other hand, Donald Trump is still firmly in the lead, followed by Ben Carson and Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Jeb Bush continues to lead from behind. Do you think the FBI will finish their investigation before 2017?
I evaluate the awesomeness of your posts. I evaluate the awesomeness of mine. And I just go, damn, I'm awesome.
Mr. chan ... you masturbate wayy too much at your old age; you could die of a heart attack seeing your reflection in the mirror.
SCOTUS makes a lot of stupid opinions. Too bad you aren't smart enough to understand that... Of course it does, -- to the case at issue, and to pendants like you; --- which I've noted above, remember? Everyone here is starting to 'understand' you nolu. And it ain't a pretty picture, believe me..
Chan thinks Trump is the answer. Watch what happens.
Lemme know when you find the clause in the Second Amendment stating that agents of state and local governments "are NOT protected by the Second Amendment" against federal infringements. Did you read that in your copy of Constimutushunal Law for Tards? Your infatuation with centralized government is pretty creepy there, Sneaky.
Against his low bar, we all are. Except maybe for pstain.
I caught some rumblings watching Fox yesterday the real damning data from the server will take 4 years to sort out. So it's going to take some time. Don't know why. Well of course we do. If she is elected President she can slow the process more. So basically she is running for her life now. "Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near"---Isaiah 55:6
They ARE the government,you dumbass. The Bill of Rights exists to protect the PEOPLE,NOT the government. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You big government lovers ALWAYS lie and claim that state and local governments are THE government. That's dead a giveaway for spotting your kind. You hate the legacy of multiple distinct governments and dual sovereignty created for us by our framers and founders.
Brown v. Board of Education. Does not count. Roe v. Wade. Does not court. D.C. v Heller. Does not count. McDonald v. Chicago. Does not count. Obergefell v. Hodges. Does not count. Funny. (And what a great move by Kelley.)
You are not only an idiot,but proud of it. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You count on big government to spread your perversion.
So you watch survivor. I wouldn't have guessed that. I watch too on occasion. In fact I saw that episode. First one this year.
Which one of us promotes a religious government? Which one of us promotes a government with the authority to control people's thoughts and sex lives? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You count on big government to spread your perversion.
Is that you,Yu-Tard? Out of rehab again? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You worship THE government.
A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
You just have to keep insisting over and over that you are a world-class fool,don't you? YOU are the one saying cops can't be disarmed,*I* am the one saying they CAN be disarmed BECAUSE they are agents of the government,and the government is NOT protected by the 2nd Amendment or any other Amendment in the Bill of Rights,yet you keep insisting *I* am the one that loves Big Government. You make Goober Gore and Barry Obomber look intelligent by comparison. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I liked the faces Ciera was making. If the nine had organized and split their vote 6-3 or 5-4, they could have succeeded in taking out one of the target three, despite the idol.
I'm smart enough to understand that their "stupid" opinions count and your stupid opinions do not.
I couldn't believe they didn't split the vote. What were they thinking? I don't think Ciera is long for this world. Abi got smart and shut up.
Roscoe is right, you are wrong. The Second Amendment applies to government employees and active duty military. The entire Bill of Rights applies to government agents and employees. The First Amendment right to free speech. The Fourth Amendment protection from unlawful search and seizure. The Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. The First Amentment starts, "Congress shall make no law...." It explicitly applies to the government and its agents. Heck, a better example of an RKBA exception is prison inmates. We would not want them packing heat. The RKBA may not be infringed. The RKBA is not a right to keep and bear arms under any and all circumstances. It was not such a right under English common law for the colonists, and it was not such a right when brought into the states by the former colonists. The RKBA has exceptions as provided by law since before there was a United States. It has never protected a right for prison inmates to keep and bear arms. If you are an employee, your employer can prohibit the bearing of arms while acting as an employee. If Wal*Mart prohibits its employees from carrying at work, it would not infer the 2nd Amendment does not apply to them. It would mean that the RKBA does not provide the right under the circumstances. It is not an infringement of the RKBA, when the right does not exist under the circumstances. The RKBA in Federal facilities is restricted by Federal law. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930 18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both. (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117. (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law; (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. [snip] During the administration of G.H.W. Bush: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a272176.pdf DOD Directive 5210-56 (25 Feb 1992) Use of Deadly Force and the Carrying of Firearms by DoD Personnel Engaged in Law Enforcement and Security Duties It is DoD Policy: 1. To limit and control the carrying of firearms by DoD military and civilian personnel. The authorization to carry firearms shall be issued only to qualified personnel when there is a reasonable expectation that life or DoD assets will be jeopardized if firearms are not carried. Evaluation of the necessity to carry a firearm shall be made considering this expectation weighed against the possible consequences of accidental or indiscriminate use of firearms. DoD personnel regularly engaged in law enforcement or security duties shall be armed. Procedures on authorization to carry and the carrying of firearms are in enclosure 1.
SCOTUS makes a lot of stupid opinions. Too bad you aren't smart enough to understand that... Below is an opinion that I agree with, --- do you? It is also not entirely unworthy of observation, that in declaring what shall be the supreme law of the land, the constitution itself is first mentioned; and not the laws of the United States generally, but those only which shall be made in pursuance of the constitution, have that rank. Thus, the particular phraseology of the constitution of the United States confirms and strengthens the principle, supposed to be essential to all written constitutions, that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument. - See more at: caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme- court/5/137.html#sthash.xshj4p5F.dpuf
There you go with that "the government" tell again. In Federalist No. 45, Madison wrote: "The powers delegated to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite." Why are you so obsessed with wanting to abolish our nation's system of multiple governments? Is it that you hate the framers? Is it that nobody ever took the time to explain the United States' Constitution to you and now you're too embarrassed to admit it? Please, explain yourself. A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
You are as full of shit as a Christmas goose. Government employees,including cops and military members only have rights when they are off-duty and out of uniform. I PERSONALLY know of a senior NCO at Fort Bragg that had his company commander (a LTC) confiscate his privately-owned guns from his off-base house after he was arrested for drunk driving off base. This same company commander put the word out that he would court-martial any man in his company that was caught on Bragg with a privately owned weapon in his possession,even if it was in a car,and even if they had a NC CCW permit. Piece of shit reserve SF Colonel from Mass that used his political connections to get on AD. Last I heard he got transferred from Bragg to Thailand to avoid the stink of him breaking and entering the MSG's house off base to seize his privately-owned weapons and ammunition,and them dump them all in Lott Lake. I heard later that the MSG got a civilian lawyer to represent him because the LTC was trying to get him reduced in rank,and the MSG's lawyer was trying to get the Fayetteville PD to arrest the LTC for felony theft and breaking and entering. The compromise they reached was the MSG was allowed to retire with his rank and was paid damages for the financial losses he had suffered,and the LTC went to Thailand,where he was promoted to Full Colonel. Last I heard a few years ago was he had been transferred to the Pentagram and was going to be promoted to General. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
What the HELL are you ranting about? You make no sense because you have no sense.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
No right to life? Only you and BLM think so. A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
No. How well do you think the US invasion of Europe in 1944 would have gone if soldiers had refused to get on the ships because "I might lose my life or be injured!"? Cops swear a oath to defend the citizens,which means they are also obligated to run into gunfire if necessary to protect the public. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You and BLM. A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
It appears Clinton fatigue may be setting in. http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/18/politics/colorado-quinnipiac-poll-clinton-trails-rubio-carson/ By Eric Bradner, CNN Washington (CNN) Colorado could be big trouble for Hillary Clinton. The Democratic front-runner in the 2016 presidential race trails all the leading Republican contenders by 11 percentage points or more in the key swing state, a new Quinnipiac University poll shows. Florida Sen. Marco Rubio bests Clinton 52% to 36%, the biggest gap. Ben Carson wins a potential head-to-head matchup as well, with a 52% to 38% advantage. And Donald Trump leads 48% to 37%. Tim Malloy, the assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll, described it as a "chilly if not frigid reception" in Colorado for Clinton. [snip]
Government employees,including cops and military members only have rights when they are off-duty and out of uniform. I pity the subordinates who relied on you to counsel them about their rights. David A. Schlueter, Military Criminal Justice, Fifth Edition, 1999, page 7: Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM) 2012 Ed., Rules for Courts-Martial (R.C.M.) Military Rules of Evidence (R.M.E.) M.C.M. page II-55: R.C.M. 604(B): Discussion See also R.C.M. 915 (Mistrial). When charges which have been withdrawn from a courtmartial are referred to another court-martial, the reasons for the withdrawal and later referral should be included in the record of the later court-martial, if the later referral is more onerous to the accused. Therefore, if further prosecution is contemplated at the time of the withdrawal, the reasons for the withdrawal should be included in or attached to the record of the earlier proceeding. Improper reasons for withdrawal include an intent to interfere with the free exercise by the accused of constitutional rights or rights provided under the code, or with the impartiality of a court-martial. A withdrawal is improper if it was not directed personally and independently by the convening authority or by a superior competent authority. Those are constitutional rights you claim do not exist. M.C.M. page II-81: R.C.M. 806(d) A session may be closed over the objection of the accused or the public upon meeting the constitutional standard set forth in this Rule. See also Mil. R. Evid. 412(c), 505(i), and 513(e)(2). Those are constitutional rights you claim do not exist. M.C.M. page III-1: M.R.E. 103 Whatever is that talking about with regard to "requirements imposed by the Constitution of the United States as applied to members of the armed forces?" M.C.M. page III-3: M.R.E. 301: (a) General rule. The privileges against self-incrimination provided by the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and Article 31 are applicable only to evidence of a testimonial or communicative nature. The privilege most beneficial to the individual asserting the privilege shall be applied. Damn, the 5th Amendment too. M.C.M. page III-4: M.R.E. 301(g) And the list goes on and on and on.
By your wingnut proclamation, Marbury v. Madison only applies to William Marbury. I believe in the Supremacy Clause, not in your bullshit. U.S. Constitution, Article 6, The Supremacy Clause Also U.S. Constitution, Article 6, Read a law book. See Laurence H. Tribe, American Constitutional Law, Second Edition, 2000, page 33: The Constitution and the laws of the United States made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, are the supreme law of the land. Laws or treaties which have been judicially determined to be repugnant to the Constitution are null and void. Laws and treaties which have not been so found are of equal status, with the one most recently adopted taking precedent over the other in case of conflict.
What Supremacy Clause? The one that clearly shows the blackrobed cretins selected to make an opinion are simple politically, charged charlatins that lie to the American People?
Quoted bullshit is still bullshit. Why not enlist and then tell them you don't want to go to the Muddle East and forcing you to go would violate your rights? Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Mr. chan seems to have crossed dressed with some of the more government loving crowd while showing his ass in publick.
Because I already did my 20 years active duty and 10 years inactive reserve.
You lack of argument on the merits is noteworthy but understandable.
There is only one.
Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the "supreme Law of the Land." In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as "the fundamental and paramount law of the nation," declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, that; ---- It is also not entirely unworthy of observation, that in declaring what shall be the supreme law of the land, the constitution itself is first mentioned; and not the laws of the United States generally, but those only which shall be made in pursuance of the constitution, have that rank. Thus, the particular phraseology of the constitution of the United States confirms and strengthens the principle, supposed to be essential to all written constitutions, that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument. - See more at: caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme- court/5/137.html#sthash.xshj4p5F.dpuf As usual, your long winded legalistic BULLSHIT does NOT answer the question of whether you agree with Justice Marshall's opinion "that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument." You can't agree because you're convinced that ANY laws upheld by a SCOTUS opinion are valid.. ---- This position is held by socialists and prohibitionists who support the war on drugs, guns, and the individual freedoms outlined in our Constitution. You've been outed.. Learn to live with your anti-constitutionalism..
Because I already did my 20 years active duty and 10 years inactive reserve. --- nolu chan It's impossible for me to believe that an individual as anti-constitutional as nolu served with honor. I smell a harrowup.
"Quoted bullshit is still bullshit." A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
Trump has said that all Concealed Carry Permit holders have a duty to carry.
Psalm 37 PRAY FOR PARIS
Because I already did my 20 years active duty and 10 years inactive reserve. And apparently you never learned a thing the whole time. I know you were in the Navy. Did you ever have sea duty or a troop command (personnel management in the Navy) position? I'm guessing you were some sort of clerical type staff weenie. Nobody else could be that ignorant to reality. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
You lack of argument on the merits is noteworthy but understandable. The fact that all you have is arguments that were cherry picked and posed by others is also understandable. You have have make a decision on your own and have no actual experience. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
He never expresses an opinion of his own,only opinions of others that allow him to argue points he doesn't even understand. Had to be some sort of staff weenie/clerk that is a frustrated lawyer. Maybe a clerk for a Navy lawyer. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
It's impossible for me to believe that an individual as anti-constitutional as nolu served with honor. I believe him. There are all sorts of jobs/positions in all branches of the military that are clerical in nature that never involve troop command or the requirement to make decisions on your own. That dofus Sy on the tv show about people making duck calls spent 20+ years in the army and never left the motor pool. As a NCO in the motor pool he had SOME command contact with troops,but damn little. At MOST a small platoon of people too scared to cause trouble because they didn't want to get sent to the infantry. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
"Quoted bullshit is still bullshit." A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion." ROFLMAO! Thanks for proving my point. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
"ROFLMAO!" --sneakypete A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
Thank you for your service. You realize that by revealing your service you've given the lowlifes an opportunity to denigrate it. It's their nature. A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
Thank you for your service. You realize that by revealing your service you've given the lowlifes an opportunity to denigrate it. It's their nature. --- Roscoe I still smell a harrowup. Nolu 'revealed' his navy service long ago, -- but now claims 20 years active. -- Next, like h'rup, he'll be claiming an equivalent rank to a kelvinator. Maybe, like Pete says, he was a clerk to a navy shyster. --- BFD. --- In at case, he is NOW an anti-constitutional apologist.
You can't agree because you're convinced that ANY laws upheld by a SCOTUS opinion are valid.. ---- This position is held by socialists and prohibitionists who support the war on drugs, guns, and the individual freedoms outlined in our Constitution. You've been outed.. Learn to live with your anti-constitutionalism.. tpaine, the Law God™. Empowered to deem constitutional amendment unconstitutional. Empowered to limit the effect of U.S. Supreme Court opinions to the parties involved. Empowered to strike down U.S. Supreme Court opinions by a declaration of his superior knowledge. tpaine, Ct. Imag., 1 tpaine 401, August Term (1791). Meanwhile, back in the real world.... A law repugnant to the Constitution is null and void. The ultimate arbiter of whether a law is unconstitutional is the U.S. Supreme Court. It is not the Law God. THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE Luther Martin and the Supremacy Clause 3 Farrand 220 [Luther Martin who introduced the Supremacy Clause] 2 Farrand 28-29: [Madison] Jerome A. Barron and C. Thomas Dienes,Constitutional Law, 6 Ed., Black Letter Series, West Group, 2003, p. 68. Ibid at 156: John E. Nowak and Ronald D. Rotunda, Constitutional Law, 4 Ed., West Publishing Co., 1991, p. 2: Yet the Court found that it could not grant the remedy in an original action because it was not within the jurisdiction fixed for the Court by Article III. The opinion interpreted a section of the Judiciary Act of 1789 as placing this action within its jurisdiction but found that this law conflicted with the Constitution. Marshall concluded by holding that the Supreme Court had the power to declare such a law to be invalid as a violation of the Constitution. Ibid at 210 That the treaty power of the United States extends to all proper subjects of negotiation between our government and the governments of other nations, is clear.... The treaty power, as expressed in the Constitution, is in terms unlimited except by those restraints which are found in that instrument against the action of the government or of its departments.... It would not be contended that it extends so far as to authorize what the Constitution forbids, or a change in the character of the government or in that of one of the states, or a cession or any portion of the territory of the latter without its consent.... Laurence H. Tribe, American Constitutional Law, 3 ed., Vol. I, West Publishing Co., p. 647: Ibid at 647: Ibid at 210 Thomas H. Odom, Federal Constitutional Law. Vol. 3, Introduction to the Federal Legislative Power, Lexis-Nexis, 2009, pp. 100-01: In Hillsborough County v. Automated Medical Laboratories, Inc., 471 U.S. 707, 712-13 (1985), the Court summarized its jurisprudence regarding federal preemption of state law. Even where Congress has not completely displaced state regulation in a specific area, state law is nullified to the extent that it actually conflicts with federal law. Such a conflict arises when "compliance with both federal and state regulations is a physical impossibility," Florida Lime & Avocado Growers,, Inc. v. Paul, 373 U.S. 132, 142-143 (1963), or when state law "stands as an obstacle to the accomplishment and execution of the full purposes and objectives of Congress," Hines v. Davidowitz, 312 U.S. at 67, 61. We have held repeatedly that state laws can be pre-empted by federal regulations as well as by federal statutes. See, e.g., Capital Cities Cable, Inc. v. Crisp, 467 U.S. 691, 699 (1984); United States v. Shimer, 367 U.S. 374, 381-383 (1961). Also, for the purposes of the Supremacy Clause, the constitutionality of local ordinances is analyzed in the same way as that of statewide laws. See, e.g., City of Burbank v. Lockheed Air Terminal, Inc., 411 U.S. 624 (1973). Lee J. Strang, Federal Constitutional Law, Vol. 4, Federalism Limitations on State and Federal Power: The Contracts Clause, Supremacy Clause, "Dormant" Commerce Clause, and the Tenth Amendment, Lexis-Nexis, 2011, p, 79 Louis Fisher and Katy J. Harriger, American Constitutional Law, 10th Ed., Vol .1, Constitutional Structures, Separater Powers and Federalism, Carolina Adacemic Press, 2013, p. 315: National powers are further reinforced by the Supremacy Clause in Article IV, Section 2: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." Early in its history, the Supreme Court decided that in cases of conflict between state law and a treaty, the latter prevails. Ware v. Hylton, 3 U.S. (3 Dall.) 198 (1796). In 2000, the Supreme Court applied the Supremacy Clause to a Massachusetts law that barred state entities from buying goods or services from companies doing business with Burma (Myanmar). Congress later imposed sanctions on the country, but delegated to the President substantial discretion to lift the sanctions if the regime made progress in human rights and democracy. A nonprofit corporation, representing several companies affected by the state law, sued on the basis that Massachusetts infringed on the federal foreign affairs power, violated the Foreign Commerce Clause, and was preempted by the federal statute. The Supreme Court held that the state law was invalid under the Supremacy Clause. Crosby v. National Foreign Trade Council, 530 U.S. 363 (2000). Otis H. Stephens, Jr. and John M. Sheb II, American Constitutional Law, 5th Ed., Vol 1, Sources of Power and Restraint, Wadsworth, Cengage Learning, 2012, p. 320: The classic statement of the federal preemption doctrine is found in Pennsylvania v. Nelson (1956), in which the Court struck down a state law criminalizing sedition against the national government. As the Court made clear in Nelson, a state law may be struck down, even where there is no explicit conflict with federal law, if the Court finds that Congress has legitimately occupied the field. Thus, in Burbank v. Lockheed Air Terminal (1973), the Supreme Court held that a local aircraft noise-abatement ordinance was preempted by the federal Noise Control Act of 1972, even though the latter contained no specific preemptive language and there was no evidence that the ordinance placed a heavy burden on interstate commerce. Writing for the Court, Justice William O. Douglas emphasized the potential safety hazard that could result if a "significant number of municipalities" adopted similar ordinances. Similarly, in Nantahala Power and Light Company v. Thornburg (1986), the Court invoked the preemption doctrine to prohibit states from deviating from federal standards in setting intrastate rates for the sale of electrical power. Likewise, in California v. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (1990), the Supreme Court held that state regulations imposing minimum flow rates on rivers used to generate hydroelectric power were preempted by the Federal Power Act. Recent decisions indicate that the preemption doctrine continues to stand as a major limitation on state regulatory authority. During the 2000 term, for example, the Supreme Court handed down no fewer than three decisions reinforcing the preemption doctrine (see Buckman Company v. Plaintiffs' Legal Committee [2001], Egelhoff v. Egelhoff [2001], and Lorillard Tobacco Company v. Reilly [2001]). In the most prominent of these cases, the Rehnquist Court was unwilling to accommodate the states in the area of cigarette advertising; in the Lorillard case, the Court held that the Federal Cigarette Labeling and Advertising Act (FCLAA) preempted Massachusetts regulations governing the sale and advertisement of tobacco products. The Constitution designates the judiciary to decide whether the laws were made in pursuance thereof, and the judiciary declares null and void the laws it finds unconstitutional. When the Constitution is amended to delegate the authority to tpaine, you will be expounding something other than bullshit. A law violating a constitution established by the people themselves, would be considered by the Judges as null & void. - - - - - 2 Elliott 131: [Samuel Adams] [I]f any law made by the federal government shall be extended beyond the power granted by the proposed Constitution, and inconsistent with the constitution of this state, it will be an error, and adjudged by the courts of law to be void. - - - - - 2 Elliott 196: [Oliver Elsworth] If the United States go beyond their powers, if they make a law which the Constitution does not authorize, it is void; and the judicial power, the national judges, who, to secure their impartiality, are to be made independent, will declare it to be void. - - - - - 2 Elliott 445: [James Wilson] I say, under this Constitution, the legislature may be restrained, and kept within its prescribed bounds, by the interposition of the judicial department. - - - - - 4 Elliott 553: [John Marshall] Can they go beyond the delegated powers? If they were to make a law not warranted by any of the powers enumerated, it would be considered by the judges as an infringement of the Constitution which they are to guard. They would not consider such a law as coming under their jurisdiction. They would declare it void. William Rawle, A View of the Constitution, 1825, Chapter 20, of the Judicial Power, p. 188: Of the Judicial Power. [...] Its construction of the acts of the legislature is received as binding and conclusive, although it does not prevent the legislature from repairing its own defects, or clearing up its own ambiguities by subsequent laws, operating on subsequent cases. A high function also appertains to the judiciary in the exclusive right to expound the constitution, and thereby to test the validity of all the acts of the legislature. Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, Vol. 3, 1833, page 703: Dickerson v United States, 530 US 428, 437 (2000): United States v. Peters, 9 U.S. (5 Cranch) 115 (1809): This was the original case on State Nulification. No Supreme Court decision has ever upheld State Nullification. It is currently only upheld by the tpaine Court of the imagination. Cooper v Aaron, 358 US 1 (1958): [...] Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the “supreme Law of the Land.” In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as “the fundamental and paramount law of the nation,” declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, that “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.” This decision declared the basic principle that the federal judiciary is supreme in the exposition of the law of the Constitution, and that principle has ever since been respected by this Court and the Country as a permanent and indispensable feature of our constitutional system. It follows that the interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment enunciated by this Court in the Brown case is the supreme law of the land, and Art. VI of the Constitution makes it of binding effect on the States “any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” Every state legislator and executive and judicial officer is solemnly committed by oath taken pursuant to Art. VI, cl. 3, “to support this Constitution.” The duty to abstain from resistance to “the supreme Law of the Land,” U.S. Const., Art. VI § 2, as declared by the organ of our Government for ascertaining it, does not require immediate approval of it nor does it deny the right of dissent. Criticism need not be stilled. Active obstruction or defiance is barred. Our kind of society cannot endure if the controlling authority of the Law as derived from the Constitution is not to be the tribunal specially charged with the duty of ascertaining and declaring what is “the supreme Law of the Land.” Baker v. Carr, 369 U. S. 186, 211 (1962) the Court stated:
Deciding whether a matter has in any measure been committed by the Constitution to another branch of government, or whether the action of that branch exceeds whatever authority has been committed, is itself a delicate exercise in constitutional interpretation, and is a responsibility of this Court as ultimate interpreter of the Constitution. That "responsibility" is subject to Congressional control. Article III, Section 2: "In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make. " And that "ultimate interpreter" power is also subject to nullification and noncompliance, once the public has had enough of the Court's misconduct. Justice Frankfurter cautioned in his dissent that, "It may well impair the Court's position as the ultimate organ of "the supreme Law of the Land" in that vast range of legal problems, often strongly entangled in popular feeling, on which this Court must pronounce. The Court's authority - possessed of neither the purse nor the sword - ultimately rests on sustained public confidence in its moral sanction." A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
I may be wrong,but I think he has always claimed he served 20 years on active duty in the Navy. I see no reason to disbelieve him. Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
As usual, your long winded legalistic BULLSHIT does NOT answer the question of whether you agree with Justice Marshall's opinion "that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument." You can't agree because you're convinced that ANY laws upheld by a SCOTUS opinion are valid.. ---- This position is held by socialists and prohibitionists who support the war on drugs, guns, and the individual freedoms outlined in our Constitution. You've been outed.. Learn to live with your anti-constitutionalism.. Good, I've finally forced you to a bit of rationality… --- We agree with Justice Marshall's opinion "that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument." There you go again, getting weird about SCOTUS. -- They are NOT the ultimate arbiters of our constitutional laws. --- They issue opinions that can be (and are) ignored by other branches and levels of gov't, -- and by we the people..
Nolu 'revealed' his navy service long ago, -- but now claims 20 years active. -- Next, like h'rup, he'll be claiming an equivalent rank to a kelvinator. Maybe, like Pete says, he was a clerk to a navy shyster. --- BFD. Or as pete actually said at #183, " I may be wrong,but I think he has always claimed he served 20 years on active duty in the Navy. I see no reason to disbelieve him." Yes it is not a reccently revealed secret. It's just that tpaine is full of shit as usual, the senile old bastard. This is yet one more example of his typical research or fact finding, i.e., just make some shit up. No doubt, that is what he smells. Just a few examples, from three different sites. Free Republic 2004 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1302649/posts?page=318#318 318 posted on 12/29/2004, 8:27:21 AM by nolu chan Liberty Post 2005 http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=92079&Disp=57#C57 nolu chan posted on 2005-04-17 14:27:49 ET Liberty's Flame 2011 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=24188&Disp=117 And bitch, I don't have a Fleet Reserve Certificate, I earned a HONORABLE RE-R1 Discharge, (form DD256N (Rev.5-50)); I did ALL of my time active except for my 3 months delayed entry before going to boot WOG. Wow, I am impressed. I only did twenty years active duty, you miserable stolen valor pissant. nolu chan, USN (Ret.) I can't think of anything that could possibly be more impressive than your talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, about your alleged DD-214. nolu chan posted on 2011-09-26 0:04:32 ET I don't walk around talking about it all the time.
You can't agree because you're convinced that ANY laws upheld by a SCOTUS opinion are valid.. ---- This position is held by socialists and prohibitionists who support the war on drugs, guns, and the individual freedoms outlined in our Constitution. See #181. The Constitution, Framers, Law books, and U.S. Supreme Court opinions. tpaine, the Law God™. Empowered to deem constitutional amendment unconstitutional. Empowered to limit the effect of U.S. Supreme Court opinions to the parties involved. Empowered to strike down U.S. Supreme Court opinions by a declaration of his superior knowledge. tpaine, Ct. Imag., 1 tpaine 401, August Term (1791). Justices write, "It is so ordered." The Law God™ writes, "So let it be written, so let it be done." Creeping Death, a song by Metallica "So let it be written, so let it be done. I'm sent by the chosen one....."
And that "ultimate interpreter" power is also subject to nullification and noncompliance, once the public has had enough of the Court's misconduct. APPELLATE jurisdiction of the Court may be limited by Congress. The ORIGINAL jurisdiction may not be limited. If there is a usurping Executive who unlawfully ignores the decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court, the Supreme Court has no enforcement authority. Louis Fisher served as Senior Sepcialist in Seperation of Powers at the Congressional Research Service of the Library of Congress. Louis Fisher and Katy J. Harriger, American Constitutional Law, 10th Ed., Vol .1, Constitutional Structures, Separater Powers and Federalism, Carolina Adacemic Press, 2013, p. 456-57: During the past several decades, Congress has been under strong pressure to withdraw the Supreme Court's jurisdiction to hear appeals in cases of abortion, school busing, school prayer, and other issues on the conservatives' "social agenda." This strategy is based on language in Article III of the Constitution: "The Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations, as the Congress shall make." The Exceptions Clause, it is argued, gives Congress plenary power to determine the Court's appellate jurisdiction. Although this approach appears to be grounded on constitutional language, the Exceptions Clause must be read in concert with other provisions in the Constitution. An aggressive use of the Exceptions Clause by Congress would make an exception the rule and deny citizens access to the Supreme Court to vindicate constitutional rights. Stripping the Supreme Court of jurisdiction to hear certain issues would vest ultimate judicial authority in the lower federal and state courts, producing contradictory and conflicting legal doctrines. A more radical proposal would prevent even the lower federal courts from ruling on specific social issues. Under Article III, the judicial power is vested in a Supreme Court "and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish." Because Congress creates the lower courts, it may by statute confer, define, and withdraw jurisdiction. Sheldon v. Sill, 49 U.S. (8 How.) 441, 449 (1850). Although Congress has withdrawn jurisdiction to adjudicate certain issues, the exercise of that power "is subject to compliance with at least the requirements of the Fifth Amendment. That is to say, while Congress has the undoubted power to give, withhold, and restrict the jurisdiction of courts other than the Supreme Court, it must not so exercise that power as to deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law or to take private property without just compensation." Battaglia v. General Motors Corp., 169 F.2d 254, 257 (2d Cir. 1948), cert, denied, 335 U.S. 887 (1948). To deny the lower federal courts jurisdiction to hear claims arising under the Constitution would upset the system of checks and balances, alter the balance of power between the national government and the states, and strengthen the force of majority rule over individual rights (see reading on ABA report). Withdrawing appellate jurisdiction from the Supreme Court and withdrawing jurisdiction from the lower federal courts would also undercut the Supremacy Clause in Article VI, which states that the Constitution and federal laws "made in Pursuance thereof... shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." In 1982, the chief justices of the highest state courts issued a unanimous resolution expressing "serious concerns" about bills introduced in Congress to give the states sole authority to decide certain social issues. Among other objections, the chief justices pointed out that the result of such legislation would be contrary to what conservatives professed to be their goal. Instead of overturning Supreme Court decisions, they would be "cast in stone" when state judges continued to honor their oaths to obey the federal Constitution and to give full force (pursuant to the Supremacy Clause) to Supreme Court precedents. The practical effect, therefore, would be to place a body of legal doctrine outside the reach of federal courts or state courts either to alter or overrule. 128 Cong. Rec. 689-90 (1982). Members of Congress have also attempted to use their power to enforce the Fourteenth Amendment as a lever to alter the jurisdiction of the federal courts. Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment gives Congress the power "to enforce, by appropriate legislation," the provisions of that Amendment. In 1981, the Senate Judiciary Committee held hearings on a bill that looked to Section 5 as the vehicle for overturning the Supreme Court's 1973 abortion decision. The hearings covered the scope of Section 5, the issue of whether Congress would be exercising judgments over "facts" or "law," and a possible shift of balance of power between the national government and the states (see reading).
Good, I've finally forced you to a bit of rationality… --- We agree with Justice Marshall's opinion "that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument." There you go again, getting weird about SCOTUS. -- They are NOT the ultimate arbiters of our constitutional laws. --- They issue opinions that can be (and are) ignored by other branches and levels of gov't, -- and by we the people.. Wow, --- you've really went off the deep end, - if you think that's a valid response. Seriously, get help..
APPELLATE jurisdiction of the Court is what? 99% of the Court's decisions? 99.9% of the Court's decisions? 99.99% of the Court's decisions? A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
It's their nature. You're welcome. My navy service is hardly a secret.
I smell a harrowup. What you smell is coming from the multi-purpose buttplug/pacifier you have in your mouth. I do not know why you think I could possibly give a shit about your opinion. It is not as if you have ever demonstrated the ability to form a rational thought. But I believe everything in your 1950's military saga, and that you are 78 or 79 years of age, which explains your senility and general confusion. [tpaine #8 posted on 11/6/2006, 7:49:05 AM] One of my college professors was a soldier in the West German army in 1956. He said they were told they were going to Hungary to fight with the Hungarian revolutionaries against the Red Army; in other words the beginning of WW3. They sat in transport planes on the runway for 3 days until they were ordered to stand down. My outfit [503rd Regt, 11th Airborne Div.] was also on full alert out on the runway at Furstenfeldbruck, near Munich, for a couple of days in early Nov. '56. -- We were told that there was a possibile need to secure the airport at Budapest in order to evacuate Americans. -- Lots of sabre rattling going on at that point, in hindsight.. But we troops were all pumped up, ready to go. 8 posted on 11/6/2006, 7:49:05 AM by tpaine [tpaine #321 posted on 2015-09-06 16:44:31 ET] Believe me, I was there in '56, and it was the overwhelming strength of Russian armored forces that stopped us from a Hungarian rescue. Thanks to that evil leader in DC, Ike, our evil empire was stopped from starting WW III... tpaine posted on 2015-09-06 16:44:31 ET Yes, the fear was of Russian armor, not Russian nuclear bombs. [Vicomte13 #13, posted on 2015-09-14 20:50:30 ET] Why, tpaine is about nearly 80 years old. - - - - - - - - - - http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=42938&Disp=1#C1 I'm a vet, and I know I'll have a good day, -- mainly because I'm starting to realise how lucky I was, -- that I never had a really bad day in the 3 years I served. -- I volunteered at 18, and served in the army from Jan of 55 to 58, the last two years in Munich, - where the biggest problem many of us had was staying sober... So hopefully, here's to a happy Vets Day to all you guys that didn't have it so good. tpaine posted on 2015-11-11 0:01:50 ET ~1937 born Jan 1955 - 18 years old. Jan 2015 - 78 years old. You keep telling that story about your father or grandfather much longer and you will be in your eighties. Or you will simply come out of the closet as yukon.
See #181. The Constitution, Framers, Law books, and U.S. Supreme Court opinions. tpaine, the Law God™. Empowered to deem constitutional amendment unconstitutional. Empowered to limit the effect of U.S. Supreme Court opinions to the parties involved. Empowered to strike down U.S. Supreme Court opinions by a declaration of his superior knowledge. The U.S. Supreme court issues "opinions that can be (and are) ignored by other branches and levels of gov't, -- and by we the people.." tpaine, Law God™, Ct. Imag., 1 tpaine 401, August Term (1791). So let it be written, so let it be done.
The 1% includes cases in which the State is a party, which is significant if the issue is seperation of state and federal powers. And, as Fisher and Harriger point out, the results of said withdrawal of jurisdiction may create a conflict with another provision of the Constitution. Only if you use a really vivid imagination. The subject matter legal experts wrote, "Although this approach appears to be grounded on constitutional language, the Exceptions Clause must be read in concert with other provisions in the Constitution." The authors gave an example of competing interests, quoted from a Circuit Court opinion (cert. denied). Louis Fisher served as Senior Specialist in Seperation of Powers at the Congressional Research Service of the Library of Congress. The co-authors are Louis Fisher and Katy J. Harriger.
BZZZZZT! Wrong. It includes cases where the dispute is BETWEEN states. Were you being sloppy or slippery with your assertion? By the way, I'm still waiting for your Army to show up. While we wait: The federal Environmental Protection Agency required Anchorage, Alaska, to reduce incoming organic waste sewage inflow by at least 30 per cent. Anchorage responded by arranging for two local fisheries to dump fish viscera into the river so the city could remove them. No U.S. Army. The Montana Legislature unanimously voted against the driver’s license requirements of the 2005 REAL ID Act. Oklahoma and Washington have also passed state laws refusing to comply. Several other states have not passed formal declaratiions of refusal, but they are not in compliance either. How many of those states have been invaded by the U.S. Army as the years passed by? A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
It's nice to be believed..
There you go again, getting weird about SCOTUS. -- They are NOT the ultimate arbiters of our constitutional laws. --- They issue opinions that can be (and are) ignored by other branches and levels of gov't, -- and by we the people.. Wow, --- you've really went off the deep end, - if you think that's a valid response. Seriously, get help.. Now you've sent another reply that simply repeats our previous posts? Good God man, get a grip...
You mean that the fascist US government run by muslims and communists own it?
CCN: The 1% includes cases in which the
It certainly is not an example of my vivid imagination. It is a quote sourced to a lawbook by Louis Fisher and Katy J. Harriger. Louis Fisher served as Senior Specialist in Seperation of Powers at the Congressional Research Service of the Library of Congress. You are free to reject what the legal experts say in favor of your claimed superior knowledge. Of course, Fisher and Harriger explained why it has a very significant effect on the consideration of withdrawing all appellate jurisdiction from the Supreme Court, which goes a long way toward explaining why that moronic brainfart has never been effected. If you wait for an administration that does more than very selectively enforce the laws that it chooses to enforce, you may get your wish. No nullification of Federal law either. The only thing you have documented is that you have either failed utterly to read the REAL ID Act of 2005, or you have misunderstood its requirements, or that its air transportation enforcement is scheduled to begin not earlier than 2016. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-109hr418rfs/pdf/BILLS-109hr418rfs.pdf If a state chooses to continue to issue non-compliant driver's licenses, the TSA will not accept them for official identification purposes. The citizens of those states, with those driver's licenses, will need a passport to board a plane. (1) IN GENERAL.—Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver’s license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section. http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs Implementation was delayed to 2014. "For the first two years of enforcement, REAL ID primarily affects persons seeking to access Federal facilities where identification is required to be presented." Beginning no sooner than 2016: A driver’s license or identification card from a noncompliant state may only be used in conjunction with a second form of ID for boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft If a state chooses not to comply, they are not nullifying the Act. The consequence is that the licenses it issues will not be recognized by the federal authorities to board a federally regulated commercial aircraft. An ID compliant with the federal law will be required for that.
See #181. The Constitution, Framers, Law books, and U.S. Supreme Court opinions. tpaine, the Law God™. Empowered to deem constitutional amendment unconstitutional. Empowered to limit the effect of U.S. Supreme Court opinions to the parties involved. Empowered to strike down U.S. Supreme Court opinions by a declaration of his superior knowledge. The U.S. Supreme court issues "opinions that can be (and are) ignored by other branches and levels of gov't, -- and by we the people.." Ex parte Law God™, Ct. Imag., 1 tpaine 401, August Term (1791). So let it be written, so let it be done.
I never claimed superior knowledge, you lying jackass. You may now join tpaine. You are no challenge. A K A Stone to sneakypete, "You count on big government to spread your perversion."
There, fixed it for ya. You are free to characterize what the legal experts wrote as "an example of really vivid imagination,", even if you do not claim superior knowledge. Just because you claim it is so. Law God Jr.™.
Roscoe Even poor roscoe has finally figured out that you're a phony.. Keep repeating yourself.. It's amusing.
zzzzzzz.
It's even more amusing to see you post crap like that... - Keep up the good work!
#2. To: Don (#0)
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#3. To: hondo68 (#2)
#4. To: Don (#0)
#5. To: y'all, don (#0)
--- the Second Amendment is a Constitutional right and neither a federal nor a state government has the power to limit that right.
Whether or not he could have backed that up in front of the Supreme Court, ---
#6. To: Don (#0)
"On the face, that is pretty damning to the argument of whether the Second Amendment is a right or privilege."
#7. To: Don (#0)
"Both the federal government and the state must respect the Bill of Rights."
#8. To: misterwhite (#7)
Liberals want ONE constitution to cover everyone.
#9. To: Roscoe (#8)
"They dream of national hegemony."
#10. To: Don (#0)
However, on the subject of the Second Amendment and gun rights, where does the state under the Tenth Amendment or the federal government’s authority end? Where should it end?
#11. To: Rufus T Firefly (#10)
#12. To: tpaine, Don, Roscoe, misterwhite (#5)
...many people here, and elsewhere, insist that state and even local governments have a constitutional power to "regulate" limits based on their public safety/policing powers.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#13. To: misterwhite (#7)
Liberals want ONE constitution to cover everyone. ONE Bill of Rights to cover everyone. And five justices on ONE court to interpret those documents
#14. To: misterwhite, roscoe, LF's gun grabbing clowns (#7)
---- the Second Amendment is a Constitutional right and neither a federal nor a state government has the power to limit that right.
States have the ultimate power. The federal government only has the powers given to them by the states. States can do whatever the hell they want, provided it does not violate their state constitution.
#15. To: Deckard, Y'ALL, misterwhite, roscoe (#12)
Deckard --- Roscoe and misterwhite seem to believe that individual states can violate the constitution. --- Wonder where they got that ridiculous idea from?
Socialist is too nice a word to describe those posters here who routinely display their totalitarian bent.
#16. To: Dead Culture Watch (#13)
"No....the language is clear, 'Shall not be Infringed' comes to mind."
#17. To: misterwhite (#16)
#18. To: Roscoe, misterwhite, constitutional cretins (#17)
States have the ultimate power. The federal government only has the powers given to them by the states. States can do whatever the hell they want, provided it does not violate their state constitution.
Our founders and framers wanted a federal government. These cretins don't even know the difference between a national government and a federal government.
#19. To: misterwhite (#16)
What about "Congress shall make NO law ..." in the first amendment? Yet free speech is regulated, isn't it?
#20. To: Dead Culture Watch (#19)
"Please refer to the rest of my original post to you in this thread"
#21. To: tpaine (#18)
Roscoe (the cretin)
#22. To: CZ82, Y'ALL, and that pair of pussies, roscoe, misterwhite (#21)
So is this the same Roscoe you were referring to when we were at LP???
#23. To: tpaine (#22)
#24. To: misterwhite (#20)
I have no interest in penis pumps.
#25. To: tpaine (#5)
Makes no real difference, because SCOTUS opinions only apply to the case at issue.
#26. To: Dead Culture Watch (#24)
Maybe you can ask Janet Reno to give you one personally
#27. To: nolu chan (#25)
I wonder what all the fuss has been about.
#28. To: nolu chan (#25)
Roe v. Wade only recognized the right of Jane Roe to obtain an abortion, and Obergefell only recognized the right of Obergefell to marry someone of the same sex. I wonder what all the fuss has been about.
#29. To: misterwhite (#20)
I have no interest in penis pumps.
#30. To: CZ82 (#23)
he was honored to be accused/suspected
#31. To: All, nolu chan, misterwhite, Roscoe, Y'ALL (#27)
Nolu --- I wonder what all the fuss has been about.
Roscoe --- Epic...
#32. To: CZ82, misterwhite (#26)
Janet is only into vaginas...
#33. To: Roscoe (#29)
DCW does.
#34. To: Dead Culture Watch (#33)
#35. To: Dead Culture Watch (#33)
"I have no interest in penis pumps."
DCW does. --- Roscoe lies...
Do you REALLY want to start an insult war with me? Because you will most certainly lose… ---- Dead Culture Watch
#36. To: Roscoe (#34)
Your penis pump buddies voted for substantive due process and against original intent in McDonald v. Chicago. --- roscoe
#37. To: Roscoe (#34)
#38. To: Dead Culture Watch (#37)
#39. To: Roscoe (#34)
"Your penis pump buddies voted for substantive due process and against original intent in McDonald v. Chicago."
#40. To: Roscoe (#29)
#41. To: misterwhite (#39)
totally ignorant of what it will mean to the right to keep and bear arms.
#42. To: misterwhite (#40)
#43. To: Roscoe (#41)
#44. To: misterwhite (#43)
And they reserve a special hatred for the rule of law.
#45. To: Roscoe, misterwhite, gun grabbing constitutional cretins (#44)
States have the ultimate power. The federal government only has the powers given to them by the states. States can do whatever the hell they want, provided it does not violate their state constitution.
Our founders and framers wanted a federal government. These cretins don't even know the difference between a national government and a federal government.
#46. To: tpaine (#45)
Roscoe (the real cretin here)
#47. To: buckeroo, y'all, misterwhite, roscoe (#46)
He is the REAL ROSCOE from Freeperthon country. The GODAMNED LIAR won't admit it.
#48. To: tpaine, misterwhite, Roscoe (#31)
What say you, nolu chan??
#49. To: tpaine, Roscoe (#36)
(Edited)
I agree with the Court that the Second Amendment is fully applicable to the States.
It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms.
#50. To: nolu chan (#49)
#51. To: nolu chan (#48)
Nolu --- I wonder what all the fuss has been about.
I used to believe that the RKBA was an individual right, possessed by the British subjects of the colonies, which they retained after the Declaration, and after the Articles, and which they explicitly refused to delegate to the Federal government of limited powers which they created pursuant to the Constitution which they ratified. ---- The Federal government was prohibited from infringing upon the individual right to keep and bear arms. ----- As for state constitutions, what they can do is determined by their provisions. They must not be contrary to the Federal Constitution and laws.
#52. To: nolu chan (#49)
(Edited)
[June 28, 2010] Justice Thomas , concurring in part and concurring in the judgment. I agree with the Court that the Fourteenth Amendment makes the right to keep and bear arms set forth in the Second Amendment “fully applicable to the States.” Ante , at 1. I write separately because I believe there is a more straightforward path to this conclusion, one that is more faithful to the Fourteenth Amendment ’s text and history.
[B]ecause SCOTUS opinions only apply to the case at issue," McDonald v. Chicago only applies to Otis McDonald and his fellow petitioners Adam Orlov, Colleen Lawson, and David Lawson. ---- A SCOTUS case with tpaine as a named party has not yet been decided. --- Which is fortunate for you as McDonald, which does not apply to you, states:
The McDonald opinion applies to the case at issue, -- while reaffirming that the 2nd applies to the States.. McDonald slip op at 39-40: --- It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms.
Yep, -- the above 'slip opinion' is a perfect example of an erroneous SCOTUS 'ruling' that can safely be ignored, as it only applies to this case and to Heller, -- it does NOT change our constitutional rights to arms, -- and those that use this opinion to so 'regulate' (infringe) do so at their own peril.. They are constitutional scofflaws..
#53. To: misterwhite, nolu chan, roscoe, Y'ALL (#52)
libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=43037
#54. To: misterwhite (#39)
#55. To: tpaine (#51)
As for state constitutions, what they can do is determined by their provisions. They must not be contrary to the Federal Constitution and laws.
Then we agree on the basics about our 2nd, and how States must conform to it, --- and that misterwhite/roscoe are wrong in their contention that some States can prohibit arms..
Thanks.. Although your sarcasm about SCOTUS opinions is, as usual, idiotic...
#56. To: tpaine (#52)
June 28, 2010] Justice Thomas , concurring in part and concurring in the judgment. I agree with the Court that the Fourteenth Amendment makes the right to keep and bear arms set forth in the Second Amendment “fully applicable to the States.” Ante , at 1. I write separately because I believe there is a more straightforward path to this conclusion, one that is more faithful to the Fourteenth Amendment ’s text and history.
McDonald slip op at 39-40: --- It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms.
Yep, -- the above 'slip opinion' is a perfect example of an erroneous SCOTUS 'ruling' that can safely be ignored, as it only applies to this case and to Heller, -- it does NOT change our constitutional rights to arms, -- and those that use this opinion to so 'regulate' (infringe) do so at their own peril.. They are constitutional scofflaws..
#57. To: Roscoe (#50)
They never read.
#58. To: misterwhite, Roscoe (#39)
Already the 2nd Circuit Court has ruled that the second amendment doesn't protect assault-style weapons because they're not commonly used for self-defense in the home (a Heller ruling).
In resolving the pending motions, this Court notes that whether regulating firearms is wise or warranted is not a judicial question; it is a political one. This Court’s function is thus limited to resolving whether New York’s elected representatives acted within the confines of the United States Constitution in passing the SAFE Act. Undertaking that task, and applying the governing legal standards, the majority of the challenged provisions withstand constitutional scrutiny. As explained in more detail below, although so-called “assault weapons” and largecapacity magazines, as defined in the Safe Act, may — in some fashion — be “in common use,” New York has presented considerable evidence that its regulation of these weapons is substantially related to the achievement of an important governmental interest. Accordingly, the Act does not violate the Second Amendment in this respect.
In Heller, the Supreme Court, based on an extensive textual and historical analysis, announced that the Second Amendment's operative clause codified a pre-existing individual right to possess and carry weapons. Recognizing, however, that the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited, Heller emphasized that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. Instead, the Second Amendment protects only those weapons in common use by citizens for lawful purposes like self-defense.
McDonald was a landmark case in one respect—the Court held for the first time that the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment against the states. Otherwise, McDonald did not expand upon Heller's analysis and simply reiterated Heller's assurances regarding the viability of many gun-control provisions.
#59. To: nolu chan (#56)
#60. To: nolu chan (#58)
"Instead, the Second Amendment protects only those weapons in common use by citizens for lawful purposes like self-defense."
#61. To: nolu chan (#58)
NYSRPA v Cuomo, 2nd Cir. 14-36-cv (19 Oct 2015) at 19:
Aside from these broad guidelines, Heller offered little guidance for resolving future Second Amendment challenges. The Court did imply that such challenges are subject to one of “the standards of scrutiny that we have applied to enumerated constitutional rights,” though it declined to say which, accepting that many applications of the Second Amendment would remain “in doubt.”
#62. To: misterwhite (#60)
So what protects the right of state militia members to keep and bear militia-type weapons (machine guns, grenade launchers, etc.)?
#63. To: nolu chan (#57)
And they never identify their superior expert source.
#64. To: misterwhite (#60)
So what protects the right of state militia members to keep and bear militia-ty type weapons (machine guns, grenade launchers, etc.)? type weapons (machine guns, grenade launchers, etc.)?
#65. To: nolu chan (#64)
#66. To: Dead Culture Watch (#63)
What kind of source do you need?
I have stated firmly that I despise what the courts have done, they have made a mockery of what God given inalienable rights means.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
#67. To: nolu chan (#66)
recognized the power of the government to deprive one of the supposedly inalienable right to life or liberty, as long as due process was provided.
#68. To: nolu chan (#66)
nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
#69. To: Dead Culture Watch (#65)
So, because the federal government has grabbed, or simply assumed so much power, the rights of the people to keep and bear arms is no longer valid?
#70. To: Dead Culture Watch (#67)
Don't you know the president can drop a drone on you on his say so?
#71. To: Dead Culture Watch (#68)
nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
#72. To: nolu chan (#70)
#73. To: Dead Culture Watch (#72)
So, you believe Obomber is in jail for murder?
#74. To: nolu chan (#71)
Do you claim that the right to property is an inalienable God-given right?
#75. To: nolu chan (#73)
#76. To: nolu chan (#73)
#77. To: Dead Culture Watch (#68)
I guess it all depends on what 'public' means...
#78. To: Roscoe (#77)
#79. To: Dead Culture Watch (#78)
#80. To: nolu chan (#71)
Do you claim that the right to property is an inalienable God-given right?
#81. To: Roscoe (#80)
#82. To: Dead Culture Watch (#81)
#83. To: Roscoe (#80)
He thinks he is God
#84. To: Dead Culture Watch (#83)
#85. To: Dead Culture Watch (#74)
Do you claim that the right to property is an inalienable God-given right?
I quoted your post. How you cannot see that is beyond me.
#86. To: nolu chan (#85)
#87. To: Dead Culture Watch (#75)
No, it illustrates my point precisely. The law is a joke if not enforced.
#88. To: nolu chan (#70)
I know presidents can violate the law.
#89. To: Dead Culture Watch (#86)
And some think it was changed because of slavery. So what.
#90. To: nolu chan, *Bang List* (#64)
(Edited)
Nothing protects the falsely declared "right" to keep and bear military weapons
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#91. To: nolu chan (#85)
#92. To: hondo68 (#90)
The Second Amendment specifically prohibits government from infringing upon the right to keep and bear ARMS.
#93. To: goldilucky (#88)
Yes, they can under the protection clause provided for them called "diplomatic immunity"
#94. To: Roscoe (#92)
The word "government" does not even appear in the Second Amendment.
#95. To: nolu chan (#93)
#96. To: Dead Culture Watch (#91)
And I have also said you can be killed by a drone, life and liberty with due process mean shit.
#97. To: Dead Culture Watch (#94)
#98. To: Roscoe (#95)
They're impervious to facts.
#99. To: Roscoe, government stooge, Obongo Nation (#92)
The word "government" does not even appear in the Second
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#100. To: hondo68 (#90)
No declaration from government is necessary to establish God given natural rights. They didn't have to "bring" rights from anywhere. Inalienable rights predate all governments and edicts. The US Constitution prohibits the government from infringing on those rights.
#101. To: hondo68, Roscoe (#99)
"Shall not be infringed".
#102. To: hondo68 (#99)
Anyone and everyone.
#103. To: nolu chan (#64)
"Nothing protects the falsely declared "right" to keep and bear military weapons. The militia and the military are two different things."
#104. To: nolu chan (#100)
#105. To: Dead Culture Watch (#54)
#106. To: misterwhite (#105)
You didn't celebrate the Heller decision?
#107. To: misterwhite (#103)
The second amendment was written to protect the state militia and their arms from federal infringement.
And each state had a constitution protecting that common law right. It's ridiculous to think that the founders expected the federal government to protect their individual right to keep and bear arms.
5. THE fifth and laft auxiliary right of the fubject, that I fhall at prefent mention, is that of having arms for their defence, fuitable to their condition and degree, and fuch as are allowed by law. Which is alfo declared by the fame ftatute 1 W. & M. ft. 2. c. 2. and is indeed a public allowance, under due reftrictions, of the natural right of refiftance and felf-prefervation, when the fanctions of fociety and laws are found infufficient to reftrain the violence of oppreffion.
#108. To: Roscoe (#102)
So it was unconstitutional for Sheriff Andy Taylor to take away Deputy Barney Fife's bullet?
#109. To: Roscoe (#104)
(Edited)
I wonder if any of them ever looked up the definition of the word unalienable?
#110. To: nolu chan (#107)
"Some states did not adopt the common law in the constitution"
#111. To: sneakypete (#108)
Are you an actual retard?
They belonged to the Sheriff's Department,and the Sheriff has the right to give or take bullets from any of his employees.
When did they say that on the show? Never mind. So the point you're dimly struggling to make is that Barney shoulda/woulda/coulda brought his own bullet to work.Secondly,they are agents of the government,as as such are NOT protected by the Second Amendment while in uniform and on duty.
Did you wash your hand after pulling that crap out of its hole?
#112. To: Roscoe (#111)
Are you an actual retard?
#113. To: nolu chan (#56)
That's why a little known, secret codicil of the Constitution grants to the tpaine Court of the Imagination, the infinite wisdom, and the almighty power, to point out the errors of the U.S. Supreme Court, dismiss offending opinions, and issue correct opinions. It would be a serious concern, but no actual cases, with real parties, are argued at the tpaine Court of the Imagination, and its opinions apply to nobody, not even tpaine. --- nolu chan
#114. To: Roscoe (#30)
#115. To: sneakypete (#112)
You must be a retard,or you would know we are not related.
the Sheriff has the right to give or take bullets from any of his employees
.But your special friend, who you are chivalrously trying to defend, said: "Shall not be infringed". By whom? Anyone and everyone.
Besides, if your "logic" was true and police have no Second Amendment rights, your hero Obama could disarm all of the state and local police without violating the Second Amendment. He could call his federal Executive Order the Sneakypete Decree. That would serve your love of centralized government quite nicely.
#116. To: nolu chan (#56)
#117. To: Dead Culture Watch, Y'ALL, - and the three stooges, misterwhite, roscoe, nolu chan (#91)
You seem to really believe pieces of paper reflect how the real world works.
#118. To: Roscoe, misterwhite, Nolu Chan, - LF's three stooges (#116)
That's why a little known, secret codicil of the Constitution grants to the tpaine Court of the Imagination, the infinite wisdom, and the almighty power, to point out the errors of the U.S. Supreme Court, dismiss offending opinions, and issue correct opinions. It would be a serious concern, but no actual cases, with real parties, are argued at the tpaine Court of the Imagination, and its opinions apply to nobody, not even tpaine. --- nolu chan
#119. To: misterwhite (#110)
Correct. Better to say "The individual RKBA was protected by state constitutions in those states which chose to protect the right".
#120. To: tpaine (#113)
McDonald slip op at 39-40: --- It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms.
Yep, -- the above 'slip opinion' is a perfect example of an erroneous SCOTUS 'ruling' that can safely be ignored, as it only applies to this case and to Heller,
#121. To: Roscoe (#116)
He won't know what a slip opinion is.
#122. To: nolu chan (#121)
(Edited)
#123. To: Roscoe (#115)
Besides, if your "logic" was true and police have no Second Amendment rights,
#124. To: tpaine, Dead Culture Watch, misterwhite, roscoe (#117)
The only piece of paper in the USA that matters, that reflects how the real world works, is our Constitution.
"And amendments to the constitution can be deemed unconstitutional."
#125. To: nolu chan (#120)
SCOTUS was citing and quoting from Heller as precedent applicable to McDonald.
While you may claim it is safe to ignore Heller, it is obvious that the U.S. Supreme Court did not do so in McDonald.
#126. To: buckeroo (#122)
You tend to "get into" your own posts that broadcast judicial decisions. You appear to suggest you agree with any court decision. Why is that? Don't YOU have a unique opinion besides copying and pasting text?
#127. To: nolu chan (#126)
#128. To: tpaine (#125)
Yep, just as I wrote. --- We agree, -- except you may be obsessing about precedent again. Precedent doesn't change constitutional law.
SCOTUS makes a lot of stupid opinions. Too bad you aren't smart enough to understand that...
#129. To: nolu chan (#126)
#130. To: redleghunter (#127)
On another note...We are getting close to the holidays. Hillary Clinton is not in an orange jump suit.
#131. To: buckeroo (#129)
Really? How do your figure your own "awesomeness" to even attempt playing mind games mr. chan?
#132. To: nolu chan (#131)
And I just go, damn, I'm awesome.
#133. To: nolu chan (#128)
Even the dumbest SCOTUS opinion counts.
Too bad you are not smart enough to understand that.
#134. To: buckeroo (#132)
#135. To: sneakypete (#123)
#136. To: nolu chan (#131)
And I just go, damn, I'm awesome.
#137. To: nolu chan (#130)
Do you think the FBI will finish their investigation before 2017?
#138. To: Roscoe (#135)
Lemme know when you find the clause in the Second Amendment stating that agents of state and local governments "are NOT protected by the Second Amendment"
#139. To: sneakypete (#138)
They ARE the government
#140. To: nolu chan (#124)
It sounds like Jeff Probst recently reading votes on Survivor for Kelley who had just played her immunity idol.
#141. To: Roscoe (#139)
You big government lovers ALWAYS lie and claim that state and local governments are THE government. That's dead a giveaway for spotting your kind. You hate the legacy of multiple distinct governments and dual sovereignty created for us by our framers and founders.
#142. To: sneakypete (#141)
#143. To: nolu chan (#124)
#144. To: A K A Stone (#142)
You count on big government to spread your perversion.
#145. To: sneakypete (#141)
#146. To: Roscoe (#145)
(Edited)
You count on big government to spread your perversion.
#147. To: sneakypete (#146)
#148. To: Roscoe (#147)
You worship THE government.
#149. To: misterwhite (#140)
Funny. (And what a great move by Kelley.)
#150. To: tpaine (#133)
SCOTUS makes a lot of stupid opinions. Too bad you aren't smart enough to understand that...
#151. To: nolu chan (#149)
"If the nine had organized and split their vote 6-3 or 5-4"
#152. To: sneakypete, Roscoe (#148)
YOU are the one saying cops can't be disarmed,*I* am the one saying they CAN be disarmed BECAUSE they are agents of the government,and the government is NOT protected by the 2nd Amendment or any other Amendment in the Bill of Rights,yet you keep insisting *I* am the one that loves Big Government.
U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 44 › § 930
D. POLICY
#153. To: nolu chan (#150)
I'm smart enough to understand that their "stupid" opinions count and your stupid opinions do not.
Article VI of the Constitution makes the Constitution the "supreme Law of the Land." In 1803, Chief Justice Marshall, speaking for a unanimous Court, referring to the Constitution as "the fundamental and paramount law of the nation," declared in the notable case of Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177, that; ----
#154. To: sneakypete (#148)
YOU are the one saying cops can't be disarmed,*I* am the one saying they CAN be disarmed BECAUSE they are agents of the government
#155. To: nolu chan (#152)
Roscoe is right, you are wrong. The Second Amendment applies to government employees and active duty military.
#156. To: Roscoe (#154)
#157. To: sneakypete (#155)
Government employees,including cops and military members only have rights when they are off-duty and out of uniform.
#158. To: Roscoe (#157)
No right to life?
#159. To: sneakypete (#158)
No.
#160. To: redleghunter (#137)
So basically she is running for her life now.
Poll: Clinton trails GOP rivals in Colorado
Updated 3:56 PM ET,
Wed November 18, 2015
#161. To: sneakypete (#155)
You are as full of shit as a Christmas goose.
The Constitution, which sets in motion a system of military criminal justice, also contains specified limitations on government infrincement of individual rights. Military due process, as it is applied today, recognizes that the protections of the Constitution generally apply with equal force to servicemembers and that the U.C.M.J., the Manual for Courts-Martial, and service regulations may provide greater protection than the Constitution.
(b) Referral of withdrawn charges. Charges which have been withdrawn from a court-martial may be referred to another court-martial unless the withdrawal was for an improper reason. Charges withdrawn after the introduction of evidence on the general issue of guilt may be referred to another court-martial only if the withdrawal was necessitated by urgent and unforeseen military necessity.
The military judge is responsible for protecting both the accused’s right to, and the public’s interest in, a public trial. A court-martial session is “closed” when no member of the public is permitted to attend. A court-martial is not “closed” merely because the exclusion of certain individuals results in there being no spectators present, as long as the exclusion is not so broad as to effectively bar everyone who might attend the sessions and is put into place for a proper purpose.
Once the military judge makes a definitive ruling on the record admitting or excluding evidence, either at or before trial, a party need not renew an objection or offer of proof to preserve a claim of error for appeal. The standard provided in this subdivision does not apply to errors involving requirements imposed by the Constitution of the United States as applied to members of the armed forces except insofar as the error arises under these rules and this subdivision provides a standard that is more advantageous to the accused than the constitutional standard.
Rule 301. Privilege concerning compulsory self-incrimination
(3) Pretrial. The fact that the accused during official questioning and in exercise of rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States or Article 31, remained silent, refused to answer a certain question, requested counsel, or requested that the questioning be terminated is inadmissible against the accused.
#162. To: tpaine (#153)
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution....
Read narrowly, the supremacy clause binds only state judges. But other provisions of the Constitution, most notably the fourteenth amendment, directly constrain the action of all state officials, often without regard to whether state courts have ruled on the validity of officials' acts; moreover, article VI declares that "the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers . . . of the several states, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution. . . ." Accordingly, the Court has not limited to state judges its demand for compliance with the federal Constitution. In Cooper v. Aaron, a school desegregation case decided against the background of Governor Faubus's resistance to the desegregation of public schools in Little Rock, Arkansas, the Supreme Court asserted what is probably its broadest definition of its power: "Marbury v. Madison . . . declared the basic principle that the federal judiciary is supreme in the exposition of the law of the Constitution, and that principle has ever since been respected by this Court and the country as a permanent and indispensable feature of our constitutional system. It follows that the interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment enunciated by this Court in the Brown case is the supreme law of the land. . . . Every state legislator and executive and judicial officer is solemnly committed by oath . . . 'to support this Constitution.'"
#163. To: nolu chan, tpaine (#162)
I believe in the Supremacy Clause, not in your bullshit.
#164. To: nolu chan (#161)
#165. To: sneakypete, nolu chan (#164)
#166. To: sneakypete (#164)
Why not enlist and then tell them you don't want to go to the Muddle East and forcing you to go would violate your rights?
#167. To: sneakypete (#164)
Quoted bullshit is still bullshit.
#168. To: buckeroo (#163)
What Supremacy Clause?
#169. To: nolu chan (#162)
Below is an opinion that I agree with, --- do you?
#170. To: nolu chan, harrowup, Y'ALL, sneakypete (#166)
sneakypete (#164) --- Why not enlist and then tell them you don't want to go to the Muddle East and forcing you to go would violate your rights?
#171. To: sneakypete (#164)
Quoted bullshit is still bullshit.
#172. To: All (#0)
#173. To: nolu chan (#166)
(Edited)
Why not enlist and then tell them you don't want to go to the Muddle East and forcing you to go would violate your rights?
#174. To: nolu chan (#167)
Quoted bullshit is still bullshit.
#175. To: tpaine (#169)
As usual, your long winded legalistic BULLSHIT does NOT answer the question of whether you agree with Justice Marshall's opinion "that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument."
#176. To: tpaine (#170)
Because I already did my 20 years active duty and 10 years inactive reserve. --- nolu chan
#177. To: Roscoe (#171)
Quoted bullshit is still bullshit.
#178. To: sneakypete (#177)
ROFLMAO!
#179. To: nolu chan (#166)
I already did my 20 years active duty and 10 years inactive reserve.
#180. To: Roscoe, nolu chan, Y'ALL, sneakypete (#179)
nolu chan (#166) --- I already did my 20 years active duty and 10 years inactive reserve.
#181. To: tpaine (#169)
As usual, your long winded legalistic BULLSHIT does NOT answer the question of whether you agree with Justice Marshall's opinion "that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument."
U.S. Const. Art. 6, Sec. 2 [83] By the third article, the judicial power of the United States is vested in one supreme court, and in such inferior courts, as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. These courts, and these only, will have a right to decide upon the laws of the United States, and all questions arising upon their construction, and in a judicial manner to carry those laws into execution; to which the courts, both superior and inferior, of the respective States, and their judges and other magistrates, are rendered incompetent. To the courts of the general government are also confined all cases in law or equity, arising under the proposed constitution, and treaties made under the authority of the United States; all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers, and consuls; all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction; all controversies to which the United States are a party; all controversies between two or more States; between a State and citizens of another State; between citizens of the same State, claiming lands under grants of different States; and between a State, or the citizens thereof, and foreign States, citizens, or subjects. Whether therefore, any laws or regulations of the Congress, or any acts of its President or other officers, are contrary to, or not warranted by the constitution, rests only with the judges, who are appointed by Congress to determine; by whose determinations every State must be bound.
(Mr. Luther Martin moved the following resolution “that the Legislative acts of the U. S. made by virtue & in pursuance of the articles of Union, and all treaties made & ratified under the authority of the U. S. shall be the supreme law of the respective States, as far as those acts or treaties shall relate to the said States, or their Citizens and inhabitants & that the Judiciaries of the several States shall be bound thereby in their decisions, any thing in the respective laws of the individual States to the contrary notwithstanding” which was agreed to nem: con:.)
In Marbury v. Madison (1803), the Supreme Court held § 13 of the Judiciary Act of 1789 unconstitutional. The Act was read by Justice Marshall, perhaps erroneously, to enlarge the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction beyond the limits defined in Art. III of the Constitution. Since the constitution prescribes the powers delegated by the people to the national govenrment, a congressional act contrary to the Constitution is invalid. The Constitution is supreme over ordinary federal or state law under the Supremacy Clause of Art. VI.
Art. VI provides that all treaties which are made "under the authority of the United States" are the supreme law of the land. They prevail, as do Executive Agreements, over inconsistent state law. Treaties and Executive Agreements are subject to constitutional limitations. Reid v. Covert (1957). Treaties and Acts of Congress are on a par, i.e., the last in time controls. The Chinese Exclusion Case (1889).
On February 24, 1803, Chief Justice Marshall delivered the opinion of the Supreme Court in Marbury v. Madison. In the opinion the court held that Marbury had a right to his judicial commission. In so doing the Court found that the executive was subject to certain legal and constitutional restraints that could be enforced by the judiciary.
Quoting Mr. Justice Field of the Supreme Court in De Geofroy v. Riggs.: This clause [The Supremacy Clause] at one time had been interpreted by legal authorities to suggest that treaties were equal to the Constitution. As a consequence the theory developed that said that treaties were not subject to any constitutional limitations.....
If there were any remaining doubt on the issue whether there is any outer limit to the treaty-making power, that question was closed resoundingly in Reid v. Covert, where a plurality of the Supreme Court, in holding American civilian dependents of overseas military personnel entitled to civilian trial, stated that neither a treaty nor an executive agreement "can confer power on the Congress, or on any other branch of government, which is free fom the restraints of the Constitution."
Footnote 18
see also The Cherokee tobacco, 78 U.S. (11 Wall.) 616, 620-21 (1871)(dictum) ("a treaty cannot change the constitution or be held valid if it be in violation of that instrument").
Quoting from Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. at 177: "[A]ll those who have framed written constitutions contemplate them as forming the fundamental and paramount law of the nation, and consequently the theory of every such government must be, that an act of the legislature, repugnant to the constitution, is void."
A NOTE REGARDING PREEMPTION DOCTRINE
It is a familiar and well-established principle that the Supremacy Clause, U.S. Const., Art. VI, cl. 2, invalidates state laws that "interfere with, or are contrary to," federal law. Gibbons v. Ogden, 22 U.S. 1, 211 (1824) (Marshall, C.J.). Under the Supremacy Clause, federal law may supersede state law in several different ways. First, when acting within constitutional limits, Congress is empowered to pre-empt state law by so stating in express terms. Jones v. Rath Packing Co., 430 U.S. 519, 525 (1977). In the absence of express pre-emptive language, Congress' intent to pre-empt all state law in a particular area may be inferred where the scheme of federal regulation is sufficiently comprehensive to make reasonable the inference that Congress "left no room" for supplementary state regulation. Rice v. Santa Fe Elevator Corp., 331 U.S. 218,230 (1947). Pre-emption of a whole field also will be inferred where the field is one in which "the federal interest is so dominant that the federal system will be assumed to preclude enforcement of state laws on the same subject." Id.; see Uines v. Davidowitz, 312 U.S. 52 (1941).
The Supremacy Clause creates a hierarchy of law. Whenever two legal norms in the hierarchy come into conflict — when they attempt to regulate the same person or activity in incompatible manners — the legal norm higher on the hierarchy "preempts" the other norm. See Gade v. National Sold Waste Mgmt. Ass'n, 505 U.S. 88,108 (1992) ("But under the Supremacy Clause, from which our pre-emption doctrine is derived, any state law, however clearly within a State's acknowledged power, which interferes with or is contrary to federal law, must yield.") (internal quotations omitted). Preemption is different from the Contracts Clause and dormant Commerce Clause contexts because, for federal law to preempt — void — state law, Congress must affirmatively act.
The Supremacy Clause
The Preemption Doctrine
2 Farrand 93: [James Madison]
CHAPTER XX.
§ 1836. From this supremacy of the constitution and laws and treaties of the United States, within their constitutional scope, arises the duty of courts of justice to declare any unconstitutional law passed by congress or by a state legislature void.
But Congress may not legislatively supersede our decisions interpreting and applying the Constitution.
If the legislatures of the several States may, at will, annul the judgments of the courts of the United States, and destroy the rights acquired under those judgments, the Constitution itself becomes a solemn mockery, and the nation is deprived of the means of enforcing its laws by the instrumentality of its own tribunals. So fatal a result must be deprecated by all, and the people of Pennsylvania, not less than the citizens of every other State, must feel a deep interest in resisting principles so destructive of the union, and in averting consequences so fatal to themselves.
1. This Court cannot countenance a claim by the Governor and Legislature of a State that there is no duty on state officials to obey federal court orders resting on this Court’s considered interpretation of the United States Constitution in Brown v. Board of Education, 347 U.S. 483. P. 4.
Deciding whether a matter has in any measure been committed by the Constitution to another branch of government, or whether the action of that branch exceeds whatever authority has been committed, is itself a delicate exercise in constitutional interpretation, and is a responsibility of this Court as ultimate interpreter of the Constitution.
#182. To: nolu chan (#181)
Baker v. Carr, 369 U. S. 186, 211 (1962) the Court stated:
#183. To: tpaine (#180)
(Edited)
Nolu 'revealed' his navy service long ago, -- but now claims 20 years active. --
#184. To: nolu chan (#181)
tpaine, the Law God™. Empowered to deem constitutional amendment unconstitutional. Empowered to limit the effect of U.S. Supreme Court opinions to the parties involved. Empowered to strike down U.S. Supreme Court opinions by a declaration of his superior knowledge. tpaine, Ct. Imag., 1 tpaine 401, August Term (1791). --- Meanwhile, back in the real world.... A law repugnant to the Constitution is null and void.
The ultimate arbiter of whether a law is unconstitutional is the U.S. Supreme Court. It is not the Law God.
#185. To: tpaine, Roscoe, sneakypete (#180)
I still smell a harrowup.
nolu chan, USN, (ret).
nolu chan, USN, (Ret).
#97. To: Mad Dog (#87)
Mad Dog #87
#186. To: tpaine (#184)
As usual, your long winded legalistic BULLSHIT does NOT answer the question of whether you agree with Justice Marshall's opinion "that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument."
#187. To: Roscoe (#182)
Article III, Section 2: "In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make. "
D. WITHDRAWING JURISDICTION
#188. To: nolu chan (#186)
Meanwhile, back in the real world.... A law repugnant to the Constitution is null and void.
The ultimate arbiter of whether a law is unconstitutional is the U.S. Supreme Court. It is not the Law God.
Justices write, "It is so ordered." The Law God™ writes, "So let it be written, so let it be done." ---- Creeping Death, a song by Metallica "So let it be written, so let it be done. I'm sent by the chosen one....."
#189. To: nolu chan (#187)
APPELLATE jurisdiction of the Court may be limited by Congress. The ORIGINAL jurisdiction may not be limited.
Withdrawing appellate jurisdiction from the Supreme Court and withdrawing jurisdiction from the lower federal courts would also undercut the Supremacy Clause in Article VI
Katy thinks that Article III, Section 2, of the Constitution is unconstitutional? The Constitution is unconstitutional? Really? Is she related to tpaine?
#190. To: Roscoe (#179)
Thank you for your service. You realize that by revealing your service you've given the lowlifes an opportunity to denigrate it.
#191. To: tpaine (#180)
It's impossible for me to believe that an individual as anti constitutional as nolu served with honor.
To: ozzymandus
#321. To: Vicomte13 (#320)
Russian nukes kept the West from rescuing Hungary in 1956 ---
As far as lacking the balls to respond, I am not sitting quivering in fear at your scintillating logic. You're a veteran, an old one: on the front line in Europe in 1956, which was 7 years before I was born. I have a certain respect for age, and I don't want to get too nasty with old men because I don't think it's nice.
#1. To: Don, Y'ALL (#0)
Happy Vets Day to all veterans
#192. To: tpaine (#188)
[tpaine, the Law God™] There you go again, getting weird about SCOTUS. -- They are NOT the ultimate arbiters of our constitutional laws. --- They issue opinions that can be (and are) ignored by other branches and levels of gov't, -- and by we the people..
#193. To: Roscoe (#189)
APPELLATE jurisdiction of the Court is what? 99% of the Court's decisions?
Katy thinks that Article III, Section 2, of the Constitution is unconstitutional? The Constitution is unconstitutional? Really?
Although Congress has withdrawn jurisdiction to adjudicate certain issues, the exercise of that power "is subject to compliance with at least the requirements of the Fifth Amendment. That is to say, while Congress has the undoubted power to give, withhold, and restrict the jurisdiction of courts other than the Supreme Court, it must not so exercise that power as to deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law or to take private property without just compensation." Battaglia v. General Motors Corp., 169 F.2d 254, 257 (2d Cir. 1948), cert, denied, 335 U.S. 887 (1948).
#194. To: nolu chan (#193)
The 1% includes cases in which the State is a party,
Only if you use a really vivid imagination.
Here's an example of really vivid imagination: The subject matter legal experts wrote, "Although this approach appears to be grounded on constitutional language, the Exceptions Clause must be read in concert with other provisions in the Constitution."
Other provisions. How imaginatively ambiguous.Congress has the undoubted power to give, withhold, and restrict the jurisdiction of courts other than the Supreme Court
Your quote has NOTHING to do with the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. The case had NOTHING to do with the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. It doesn't even rise to the level of obiter dictum in that the Circuit Court's imaginative digression explicitly states that it is hypothesizing about courts other than the Supreme Court, much less the APPELLATE jurisdiction on the Supreme Court.
#195. To: nolu chan (#191)
I do not know why you think I could possibly give a shit about your opinion. It is not as if you have ever demonstrated the ability to form a rational thought. But I believe everything in your 1950's military saga, and that you are 78 or 79 years of age,
You keep telling that story about your father or grandfather much longer and you will be in your eighties. Or you will simply come out of the closet as yukon.
You're the one around here that been classed as posting like Yukon, -- not me..--- But whatever..
#196. To: nolu chan (#192)
The ultimate arbiter of whether a law is unconstitutional is the U.S. Supreme Court. It is not the Law God.
Justices write, "It is so ordered." The Law God™ writes, "So let it be written, so let it be done." ---- Creeping Death, a song by Metallica "So let it be written, so let it be done. I'm sent by the chosen one....."
#197. To: nolu chan (#168)
There is only one.
#198. To: Roscoe (#194)
It includes cases where the dispute is BETWEEN states.
State United States is a party.
#199. To: Roscoe (#194)
Here's an example of really vivid imagination:
The subject matter legal experts wrote, "Although this approach appears to be grounded on constitutional language, the Exceptions Clause must be read in concert with other provisions in the Constitution."
Other provisions. How imaginatively ambiguous.
Congress has the undoubted power to give, withhold, and restrict the jurisdiction of courts other than the Supreme Court
Your quote has NOTHING to do with the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. The case had NOTHING to do with the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. It doesn't even rise to the level of obiter dictum in that the Circuit Court's imaginative digression explicitly states that it is hypothesizing about courts other than the Supreme Court, much less the APPELLATE jurisdiction on the Supreme Court.
By the way, I'm still waiting for your Army to show up. While we wait:
The federal Environmental Protection Agency required Anchorage, Alaska, to reduce incoming organic waste sewage inflow by at least 30 per cent. Anchorage responded by arranging for two local fisheries to dump fish viscera into the river so the city could remove them. No U.S. Army.
The Montana Legislature unanimously voted against the driver’s license requirements of the 2005 REAL ID Act. Oklahoma and Washington have also passed state laws refusing to comply. Several other states have not passed formal declaratiions of refusal, but they are not in compliance either. How many of those states have been invaded by the U.S. Army as the years passed by?
SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.
(a) MINIMUM STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL USE.—
Boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft
#200. To: tpaine (#196)
tpaine, the Law God™] There you go again, getting weird about SCOTUS. -- They are NOT the ultimate arbiters of our constitutional laws. --- They issue opinions that can be (and are) ignored by other branches and levels of gov't, -- and by we the people..
#201. To: nolu chan (#199)
You are free to reject what the legal experts say in favor of your claimed superior knowledge.
#202. To: Roscoe (#201)
You are free to reject what the legal experts say in favor of your
claimed superior knowledge.
#203. To: nolu chan, Y'ALL (#200)
You are no challenge.
#204. To: tpaine (#203)
#205. To: nolu chan (#204)
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