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Title: It is here: Court ruling paves way for mass confiscation of firearms in America
Source: Intellihub
URL Source: https://www.intellihub.com/it-is-he ... cation-of-firearms-in-america/
Published: Oct 22, 2015
Author: Alex Thomas
Post Date: 2015-10-22 11:19:50 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 13109
Comments: 92

Gun control proponents and media allies also continue to push for mass confiscation

By Alex Thomas

(INTELLIHUB) — In a ruling that directly paves the way for mass confiscation of firearms in America, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, in a much-anticipated decision, has upheld the constitutionality of the New York SAFE Act of 2013.

Shockingly, the court ruled that nearly all of the most drastic gun control law in the history of the United States did not violate the Second Amendment and is therefore constitutional.

That’s right, a law passed in the wake of Sandy Hook that included and paved the way for confiscation of millions of legally purchased firearms has been ruled “constitutional” with proponents already calling for a similar law to be enacted at the federal level.

As an article published by the American Thinker noted, “If the SAFE Act is upheld by the Supreme Court, nothing prevents Congress from summarily outlawing tens of millions of firearms overnight. Once those firearms become contraband, the government may confiscate and destroy them without compensating the owner (just as the government confiscates and destroys illegal drugs).

“The Second Circuit’s decision leaves the Second Amendment in its gravest peril ever.  Second Amendment rights are now hanging by a one-vote margin in the same Supreme Court that upheld Obamacare and declared a national right to gay marriage.

Constitutional conservatives and Second Amendment supporters ought to be terrified over the prospect of Justice Scalia having a heart attack during a Hillary Clinton presidency.” (and as we know Clinton is calling for mass confiscation herself)

Australian style mass confiscation is coming

In the weeks since the most recent mass shooting in the country, literally dozens of mainstream publications have promoted Australia as the country to look towards when considering new gun control laws in America.

“Despite the fact that for years gun control groups and anti-gun liberals have claimed that they only want “common sense” gun control, news outlets such as Salon and Slate are once again openly praising Australia’s controversial 1996 gun control law, a law that included a mandatory gun buy back program under the threat of government force.

After the Oregon school shooting, highly trafficked liberal news outlet Slate republished an article praising Australia’s gun control law that was originally released in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre.

In the weeks since the recent shooting the article has become the top read report on the site as well as linked by dozens of other liberal news outlets. (emphasis mine)

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia.

The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

Like most other articles praising Australia’s gun laws, the author of the Slate article completely leaves out the fact that the buyback program was mandatory which means that anyone that refused to go along with the program was subject to government raids and or violence.”

“Remember, these are the same liberals who claim that they do not want to take away all guns while literally writing articles promoting a gun law that not only included gun confiscation but also banned purchasing guns for use in self-defense!”

Another recent article published in the mainstream press, this time by CNN, dreamed of disarming all Americans whiling calling for banning all guns “once and for all”.

The article, written by liberal poet and Middlebury College professor Jay Parini, was a perfect example of how on one hand gun control advocates and their media allies tell the public that they only want “common sense” reform while on the other they are pushing for a full-scale ban.

Parini gets to the crux of his and the many who share his views on the lefts agenda which is the confiscation of millions of legally owned firearms under the threat of government attack and subsequent outlawing of all handguns and rifles.

Let me dream for a moment: I would much prefer to live in a country where only hunters who pass appropriately strict tests for mental competence and a knowledge of gun safety can still acquire rifles that are appropriate for hunting.

Handguns and assault rifles would be banned, period.

Banned. Period. There you have it folks, CNN letting a hard left authoritarian use their platform to “dream” about disarming America. It gets worse.

So let’s get rid of guns in this country, once and for all, making it a felony to possess a handgun or assault rifle. Over a period of years, illegal guns will gradually disappear. Guns don’t kill people, as they say.

People who acquire guns — legally or illegally — do. And we should make it extremely difficult for them to get their hands on these weapons.

Liberal media now pushing for gun owners to be shot

Not only are the mainstream media and gun control advocates pushing for a mass confiscation plan in the United States, they are also making it clear that they have no problem with gun owners being shot which would be a likely and obvious outcome if the government decided to outlaw millions of firearms overnight.

Just days ago, author and Coppin State University writing teacher D. Watkins published an article on the prominent hard left news outlet Salon.com that called for all gun owners to be shot if they wanted to use their 2nd Amendment right.

“Starting out the article with the writers dreams of charging five thousand dollars per bullet, Watkins then makes his position on gun ownership in America startlingly clear.” (emphasis mine)

Rock was definitely on point, $5000 bullets would be great but I’d take it a step further––I believe that being shot should be requirement for gun ownership in America. It’s very simple. You need to have gun, like taking selfies with pistols, can’t live with out it? Then take a bullet and you will be granted the right to purchase the firearm of your choice.

If we could successfully implement this rule, I guarantee the mass shootings will stop. Watching cable news now in days makes me physically ill.

Week in and week out we are forced to learn about another coward, who can’t stand to deal with the same rejection that most of us face–– so they strap themselves with guns and then cock and spray at innocent people. Heartbroken survivors and family member images go viral, as our elected officials remain clueless.

So there you have it. A court has upheld a New York law that paves the way for mass confiscation in America while at the same time the mainstream media is pushing this plan for confiscation and making it clear that if gun owners have to be shot to achieve this agenda then so be it.

The one question that remains is whether or not the American people will stand by as their 2nd Amendment right is openly destroyed right before their very eyes.

This article originally appeared on Intellihub.com.

About the Author

Alex Thomas is a reporter and opinion journalist who has worked in the alternative media for over three years. His work has been featured on numerous news outlets including Infowars and RT. You can contact him hereAlex is an exclusive weapon of IntellihubRead more articles by this author here.

Feel free to post the above article in part or in full on your website or blog leaving the byline and all original links intact.

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License (CC BY-SA 3.0 US)

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#52. To: nolu chan (#51)

"We therefore read Miller to say only that the Second Amendment does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns."

They read it wrong.

Miller very clearly said that the ONLY weapons protected by the second amendment were those used by a Militia. The Miller court had no idea if a short-barreled shotgun had "any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia". Because of that they remanded the case back to the lower court for them to make that determination.

Miller had NOTHING to do with law-abiding citizens possessing weapons for lawful purposes. The Heller court invented that.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-25   18:29:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: nolu chan (#51)

"but we rejected the suggestion that the right was valued only as a means of preserving the militias."

Right. That part in the second amendment about "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" was just rambling and didn't mean anything.

"As we put it, self-defense was “the central component of the right itself.”

How convenient for you. Now you can rule that any weapon not commonly used for self-defense can be banned. And boy-oh-boy, that list is long.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-25   18:36:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: misterwhite (#53)

That part in the second amendment about "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" was just rambling and didn't mean anything.

Are you out of your mind? I want to learn about your idea for the meaning of "well regulated." Hint: nothing to do with government intervention.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-10-25   18:43:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: nolu chan (#51)

"In the colonial and revolutionary war era, [small-arms] weapons used by militiamen and weapons used in defense of person and home were one and the same.”

Well, there you go. The "arms" protected by the second amendment today in defense of person and home are the same arms as used by the military.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-25   18:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: CZ82 (#48)

"I hope you know someone who can do some trigger work on it, I hear it's gritty and close to 12lbs..."

Yeah. I've read 10-12. But it was built as a 2 MOA assault rifle, not a sniper rifle.

I'm looking to get a SPARC II red dot, and that reticule is only 2 MOA.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-25   19:26:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: buckeroo (#54)

I was being sarcastic.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-25   19:28:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: misterwhite (#57)

I doubt it.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-10-25   19:29:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: nolu chan (#49)

Your defeatist opinion is noted, but this is not the issue. ---- You consider that the federal government to have the power to prohibit arms that would "permit them (the people) to prevail over the Federal forces." --- Your UNCONSTITUTIONAL beliefs are the issue.

The 2nd Amendment protects an individual right to keep and beararms. It does not protect an individual "right" to any weaponry imaginable.

In wars of rebellion, the rebels quickly acquire 'any weapons imaginable' from their foes,---- because they have the initial arms to do so. --- That's one reason the 2nd protects the individual right.

If you have not noticed, Federal military bases are not manned primarily by people of the place where they are at.
They are however STAFFED by local people, and of course many US military personnel would NOT co-operate with a federal/military takeover.
You may imagine that you will quickly acquire your weapons from a military base and not be killed.

Your defeatism is noted. But modern guerrilla type tactics all over the world show us that you are wrong, and that they can fight organised armed forces to a standstill.

The U.S. are fought to a standstill by U.S. politicians. Our armed forces (and some others) have the power to reduce the guerrillas and the land about them to a pile of rubble.
You're so far gone that you really believe that ALL of our military would fight against their own citizens in a political coup?

We have a right to keep and bear arms.. -- Yet you come to the weird conclusion that the federal government has the power to prohibit arms that would "permit them (the people) to prevail over the Federal forces."

No, I come to the conclusion that the people are unable to bear arms that would permit them to prevail over the Federal forces. The power of the Federal armed forces has passed that point.

I can only conclude that you've been brainwashed by govt propagandists.

I can only conclude that you have been a pain in the ass, you are a pain in the ass, and you will continue to be a pain in the ass.
Pitiful of you to conclude in that silly personal way. Why do you imagine I would give a damn about your 'pain in the ass' opinions? --- You've proven yourself to be a big government apologist with anti-constitutional opinions about our rights to semi-auto arms. -- You're contemptible.

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-25   20:35:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: tpaine (#59)

Pitiful of you to conclude in that silly personal way. Why do you imagine I would give a damn about your 'pain in the ass' opinions? --- You've proven yourself to be a big government apologist with anti-constitutional opinions about our rights to semi-auto arms. -- You're contemptible.

So says the KOOKIFORNIA sheep, that willingly stays penned up in the KOOKIFORNIA sheep barn.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-25   20:45:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: nolu chan, Y'ALL (#50)

I think the govt cannot properly restrict the RKBA. But bearing automatic rifles is now irrelevant to the original purpose of a state or states resisting a usurping Federal government.

Bearing automatic rifles (or semi-autos) has never been as RELEVANT to the original purpose of the PEOPLE of state or states resisting a usurping Federal government, --- as it is now, --- seeing we now have both Fed and (some) State govts OUT OF CONTROL.

I am sorry to hear that the Fed and State govts are out of control,

You know that they are, yet you claim those govts have the power to prohibit our rights to semi-auto arms..

What in hell is wrong with you?

--- and happy to hear you stand on guard to defeat the U.S. Armed Forces with your M-1. And you are prepared for the Zombie wars. --- A more likely scenario is an economic implosion with a general breakdown of law and order.

Yep, and still you insist that semi-auto arms can be prohibited. --- Get help, you must be ill..

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-25   20:54:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: GrandIsland, Y'ALL (#60)

Pitiful of you to conclude in that silly personal way. Why do you imagine I would give a damn about your 'pain in the ass' opinions? --- You've proven yourself to be a big government apologist with anti-constitutional opinions about our rights to semi-auto arms. -- You're contemptible.

So says the KOOKIFORNIA sheep, that willingly stays penned up in the KOOKIFORNIA sheep barn.

You're as silly as nolu, with your KOOKIFORNIA obsession. Rave on...

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-25   20:59:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: tpaine (#62)

Rave on...

By all means, SLAVE ON, KOOKIFORNIAN.

lol

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-25   21:07:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: GrandIsland (#63)

No one can hear you 'laughing out loud' in your parents basement, you pitiful fraud..

Or at least we can hope your folks have escaped for the evening.

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-25   21:12:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: tpaine (#64)

in your parents basement

You're as original as a fight during a hockey game.

lol

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-25   21:18:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: GrandIsland (#65)

Whatever

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-25   21:19:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Stoner (#1)

They know the law. They don't care. In the new Amerika, laws as stipulated in the U.S. constitution and the Bill of Rights no longer exist.

Psalm 37

Don  posted on  2015-10-25   21:35:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: A K A Stone (#37)

" If God forbid a civil war did come to America. It is possible that people resisting with the guns we already have could prevail.

The military would split along ideological lines like the rest of the country.

Just my opinion. "

As long as we are not talking about a few people squaring off with an Airborne Division in their front yard, yes it is possible

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Stoner  posted on  2015-10-26   13:32:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Stoner, a k a stone, nolu chan, Y'ALL (#68) (Edited)

A K A Stone (#37)

" If God forbid a civil war did come to America. It is possible that people resisting with the guns we already have could prevail. The military would split along ideological lines like the rest of the country.

Just my opinion. "

Stoner -- yes it is possible.

More than possible. The military would split, -- because most of our military men believe implicitly in our Constitution, and its principles of individual liberties.. -- They would not fight for a despotic govt...

Nolu Chan has been brainwashed into believing that our military would blindly 'follow the orders' of our politicians.

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-26   13:50:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: tpaine (#69)

" Nolu Chan has been brainwashed into believing that our military would blindly 'follow the orders' of our politicians. "

I agree that many would not. But today's military, rather than the past, is more heavily populated by soldiers that are not even citizens, and probabilities are that they WOULD follow any orders given them. And don't forget that most of the upper ranks are beholden to Oblabula.

Regardless, if it starts, it will get very ugly, and very bloody, very quick.

Hopefully you & your family will be prepared.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Stoner  posted on  2015-10-26   14:19:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: misterwhite (#52)

[misterwhite #52] They [SCOTUS] read it wrong.

SCOTUS decided it, as surely as they decided on abortion in Roe and same-sex marriage in Obergefell.

The state of the law does not depend on your personal opinion or mine. SCOTUS is empowered to make a binding legal decision, and you are empowered to express your opinion to the world. It is of no legal consequence.

Your opinion, if stated as your opinion, and qualified as being contrary to the actual law of the United States, is yours to express.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-26   15:42:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: misterwhite (#53)

[misterwhite #53] Right. That part in the second amendment about "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" was just rambling and didn't mean anything.

It was a reason given for withholding authority from the Federal government from infringing upon the existing right to keep and bear arms. It was not a definition of the right. The existing right to keep and bear arms was in the English law when the revolution took place.

The existing right held by the colonists was not rewritten or abridged by the 2nd Amendment. It arose as an individual right.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/england.asp

English Bill of Rights 1689

An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/blackstone_bk1ch1.asp

Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England

Book the First - Chapter the First: Of the Absolute Rights of Individuals

The fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defence, suitable to their condition and degree, and such as are allowed by law. Which is also declared by the same statute and is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-26   15:44:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: misterwhite (#53)

[misterwhite #53] How convenient for you. Now you can rule that any weapon not commonly used for self-defense can be banned. And boy-oh-boy, that list is long.

The Federal government has been banning certain weapons since 1934, a proven beyond all doubt, by the National Firearms Act of 1934. Machine Gun Kelly's favorite weapon was banned.

If all weapons are allowed, can one rent a floor of the WTC and fill it with C-4 or nuclear bombs in exercise of their Second Amendment rights?

How inconvenient to you that SCOTUS has ruled and your opinions contrary to theirs are of no legal consequence.

I have opined that the opinion overreaches against the 2nd Amendent as I read it. I do not make believe that my opinion changes the legal reality. And it would seem that the 2nd Amendment could use an update. In 1791, there were no weapons that could wreak havoc on entire continents.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-26   15:45:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: misterwhite (#55)

[misterwhite #55] Well, there you go. The "arms" protected by the second amendment today in defense of person and home are the same arms as used by the military.

You are sadly mistaken in conflating "the militia" with "the military." The military are members of the armed services. The militia is essentially all the able bodied men at least 17 and under 45 who are eligible to be conscripted into military service, and members of the National Guard and Naval Militia.

The militia does not include the U.S. Armed Forces. The members of the National Guard cannot take their government owned weapons home to play with.

http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2012/title-10/subtitle-a/part-i/chapter-13/section-311/

THE MILITIA - 10 U.S.C. § 311 (2012)

§311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14; Pub. L. 85–861, §1(7), Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103–160, div. A, title V, §524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656.)

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/federal-farmer-an-additional-number-of-letters-to-the-republican/

Federal Farmer: An Additional Number of Letters to the Republican
May 02, 1788

[...]

LETTER XVIII.
JANUARY 25, 1788.

The military forces of a free country may be considered under three general descriptions—1. The militia. 2. the navy—and 3. the regular troops—and the whole ought ever to be, and understood to be, in strict subordination to the civil authority; and that regular troops, and select corps, ought not to be kept up without evident necessity. Stipulations in the constitution to this effect, are perhaps, too general to be of much service, except merely to impress on the minds of the people and soldiery, that the military ought ever to be subject to the civil authority, &c. But particular attention, and many more definite stipulations, are highly necessary to render the military safe, and yet useful in a free government; and in a federal republic, where the people meet in distinct assemblies, many stipulations are necessary to keep a part from transgressing, which would be unnecessary checks against the whole met in one legislature, in one entire government.—A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, and render regular troops in a great measure unnecessary. The powers to form and arm the militia, to appoint their officers, and to command their services, are very important; nor ought they in a confederated republic to be lodged, solely, in any one member of the government. First, the constitution ought to secure a genuine and guard against a select militia, by providing that the militia shall always be kept well organized, armed, and disciplined, and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms; and that all regulations tending to render this general militia useless and defenceless, by establishing select corps of militia, or distinct bodies of military men, not having permanent interests and attachments in the community to be avoided. I am persuaded, I need not multiply words to convince you of the value and solidity of this principle, as it respects general liberty, and the duration of a free and mild govern-ment: having this principle well fixed by the constitution, then the federal head may prescribe a general uniform plan, on which the respective states shall form and train the militia, appoint their officers and solely manage them, except when called into the service of the union, and when called into that service, they may be commanded and governed by the union. This arrangement combines energy and safety in it; it places the sword in the hands of the solid interest of the community, and not in the hands of men destitute of property, of principle, or of attachment to the society and government, who often form the select corps of peace or ordinary establishments: by it, the militia are the people, immediately under the management of the state governments, but on a uniform federal plan, and called into the service, command, and government of the union, when necessary for the common defence and general tranquility. But, say gentlemen, the general militia are for the most part employed at home in their private concerns, cannot well be called out, or be depended upon; that we must have a select militia; that is, as I understand it, particular corps or bodies of young men, and of men who have but little to do at home, particularly armed and disciplined in some measure, at the public expence, and always ready to take the field. These corps, not much unlike regular troops, will ever produce an inattention to the general militia; and the consequence has ever been, and always must be, that the substantial men, having families and property, will generally be without arms, without knowing the use of them, and defenceless; whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it. As a farther check, it may be proper to add, that the militia of any state shall not remain in the service of the union, beyond a given period, without the express consent of the state legislature.

As to the navy, I do not see that it can have any connection with the local governments. The want of employment for it, and the want of monies in the hands of the union, must be its proper limitation. The laws for building or increasing it, as all the important laws mentioned in a former letter, touching military and money matters, may be checked by requiring the attendance of a large proportion of the representatives, and the consent of a large proportion of those present, to pass them as before mentioned.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-26   15:47:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: tpaine (#59)

[tpaine #59] You are so far gone that you really believe that ALL of our military would fight against their own citizens in a political coup?

You are so deluded that you think yo can take on the U.S. Armed Forces and prevail.

You and a group of similar wingnuts are invited to attempt to overthrow the goverment by force, or to peacefully secede from your state and the federal union. I suppose the civil war proves to you that nobody will fight against you.

[tpaine #59] We have a right to keep and bear arms.. -- Yet you come to the weird conclusion that the federal government has the power to prohibit arms that would "permit them (the people) to prevail over the Federal forces."

The Federal government has been prohibiting and regulating certain arms since 1934.

I did not come to a conclusion that the federal government has the power to prohibit arms that would permit you and your fellow wingnuts to prevail over the Federal forces, I came to the conclusion that you could fully implement your right to keep and bear arms and be unable to prevail against the U.S. armed forces.

You are, however, invited to declare your independence as a sovereign citizen and take on the U.S. Marines and Army. Good luck.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-26   16:27:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: tpaine (#61)

[tpaine #61] Bearing automatic rifles (or semi-autos) has never been as RELEVANT to the original purpose of the PEOPLE of state or states resisting a usurping Federal government, --- as it is now, --- seeing we now have both Fed and (some) State govts OUT OF CONTROL.

I feel safer knowing you are on the job of taking on the U.S. armed forces.

I am sure if an 80-year old runs around in the woods with his gun, that will scare the Fed and State govts INTO CONTROL. Hallelujah!

The 2nd Circuit court decision which is the topic of this thread should not get in your way is it effected no change to any law except to strike down a couple of existing provisions.

[tpaine #61] You know that they are, yet you claim those govts have the power to prohibit our rights to semi-auto arms.. What in hell is wrong with you?

I read the court opinion and saw that the thread article was a pile of shit. Of course, you would quote the parts of the court opinion that provide for mass confiscation of guns, if you could find them. Two reasons you do not do so is that you have not read the opinion, and the provisions are not there.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-26   16:28:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: tpaine, Stoner, A K A Stone (#69)

[tpaine #69] More than possible. The military would split, -- because most of our military men believe implicitly in our Constitution, and its principles of individual liberties.. -- They would not fight for a despotic govt...

They also believe in carrying out orders, as exemplified by the civil war and more recent conflicts of dubious merit all over the world. They fought for Lincoln's despotic government. In the largest civil disturbance in U.S. history, the Navy shelled lower Manhattan, and army troops went from Gettysburg to New York. They destroyed printing presses of newspapers, killed random civilians as retribution, and held political prisoners, and that is only some of the stuff documented in the official records.

A few short-lived rebellions were met with overwhelming force.

Of course, with a significant military split, we are no longer talking about trambopaine taking on the U.S. armed forces, but of co-opting a large part of the U.S. armed forces to do the fighting.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-26   16:30:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: nolu chan (#75)

Our armed forces (and some others) have the power to reduce the guerrillas and the land about them to a pile of rubble.

You're so far gone that you really believe that ALL of our military would fight against their own citizens in a political coup?

You are so deluded that you think yo can take on the U.S. Armed Forces and prevail.

Not true and you know that I've never taken that position. You're now playing a detestable 'straw man' game. -- Have you no honor?

You and a group of similar wingnuts are invited to attempt to overthrow the goverment by force, or to peacefully secede from your state and the federal union. I suppose the civil war proves to you that nobody will fight against you. -- "[tpaine #59] We have a right to keep and bear arms.. -- Yet you come to the weird conclusion that the federal government has the power to prohibit arms that would "permit them (the people) to prevail over the Federal forces." ---- The Federal government has been prohibiting and regulating certain arms since 1934.

And these unconstitutional prohibitions have been loudly protested by a large minority since 1934. --- Your support of them is detestable.

I did not come to a conclusion that the federal government has the power to prohibit arms that would permit you and your fellow wingnuts to prevail over the Federal forces, I came to the conclusion that you could fully implement your right to keep and bear arms and be unable to prevail against the U.S. armed forces. --- You are, however, invited to declare your independence as a sovereign citizen and take on the U.S. Marines and Army. Good luck.

You've come to the conclusion that the 2nd can be infringed by unconstitutional regulations, as you wrote again just above -- You should leave the USA for a socialist state.

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-26   17:33:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: nolu chan (#76)

[tpaine #61] Bearing automatic rifles (or semi-autos) has never been as RELEVANT to the original purpose of the PEOPLE of state or states resisting a usurping Federal government, --- as it is now, --- seeing we now have both Fed and (some) State govts OUT OF CONTROL.

I feel safer knowing you are on the job of taking on the U.S. armed forces. --- I am sure if an 80-year old runs around in the woods with his gun, that will scare the Fed and State govts INTO CONTROL. Hallelujah!

I, nor other patriots, will never have to fight our military, because they will be with us, and against you gun control freaks.

The 2nd Circuit court decision which is the topic of this thread should not get in your way is it effected no change to any law except to strike down a couple of existing provisions.

[tpaine #61] --- Yet you claim our govts have the power to prohibit our rights to semi-auto arms.. What in hell is wrong with you?

I read the court opinion and saw that the thread article was a pile of shit. Of course, you would quote the parts of the court opinion that provide for mass confiscation of guns, if you could find them. Two reasons you do not do so is that you have not read the opinion, and the provisions are not there.

I've read YOUR CONCLUSIONS about the opinion, and declared them 'a pile of shit'.

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-26   17:46:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: nolu chan, Y'ALL (#77)

[tpaine #69] More than possible. The military would split, -- because most of our military men believe implicitly in our Constitution, and its principles of individual liberties.. -- They would not fight for a despotic govt...

They also believe in carrying out orders, as exemplified by the civil war

Union soldiers, both during and long after the war, testified that they were fighting for the constitutional principles of the UNION.

--- and more recent conflicts of dubious merit all over the world. They fought for Lincoln's despotic government.

That you call Lincoln a "despot" explains a lot, Ms. Brady.

In the largest civil disturbance in U.S. history, the Navy shelled lower Manhattan, and army troops went from Gettysburg to New York. They destroyed printing presses of newspapers, killed random civilians as retribution, and held political prisoners, and that is only some of the stuff documented in the official records.

Yep, the draft riots in NYC, mostly started by immigrants unwilling to fight for our constitution, were "short-lived rebellions - met with overwhelming force." --- So What?

Of course, with a significant military split, we are no longer talking about trambopaine taking on the U.S. armed forces, but of co-opting a large part of the U.S. armed forces to do the fighting.

Babble on, nolu... You're rapidly using up the good will some here at LF have had for you.

You never fooled me..

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-26   18:03:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: nolu chan (#74)

"You are sadly mistaken in conflating "the militia" with "the military."

I'm saying, back then, the "arms" were the same. Arms in the home were the same as the arms used by the forces organized to protect the country.

Then, it was the militia. Today it is the military. Those arms are protected from infringement by the second amendment.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-26   18:36:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: nolu chan (#73)

"If all weapons are allowed"

Not "allowed". Protected by the second amendment. And it would include all weapons deemed necessary by a state to fulfill their duty to protect and defend the country.

According to the second amendment as written.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-26   18:39:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: nolu chan (#72)

It was a reason given for withholding authority from the Federal government from infringing upon the existing right to keep and bear arms ...

... for the purpose of forming a state militia. Don't leave that out.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-10-26   18:41:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: tpaine (#78)

[tpaine #78] You're so far gone that you really believe that ALL of our military would fight against their own citizens in a political coup?

You are so full of shit, you might be yukon.

Your next comment answered yourself.

[tpaine #78] Not true and you know that I've never taken that position. You're now playing a detestable 'straw man' game. -- Have you no honor?

Dishonorable asshole! Are you channeling yukon? Are you really an 80-year old dishonorable asshole, or pajama boy posting from his mommie's basement?

And these unconstitutional prohibitions have been loudly protested by a large minority since 1934. --- Your support of them is detestable.

I accurately stated the law. You profess bullshit from the tpaine court of the imagination as the law.

[nc #75] I did not come to a conclusion that the federal government has the power to prohibit arms that would permit you and your fellow wingnuts to prevail over the Federal forces, I came to the conclusion that you could fully implement your right to keep and bear arms and be unable to prevail against the U.S. armed forces. --- You are, however, invited to declare your independence as a sovereign citizen and take on the U.S. Marines and Army. Good luck.

[tpaine #78] You've come to the conclusion that the 2nd can be infringed by unconstitutional regulations, as you wrote again just above -- You should leave the USA for a socialist state.

I came to the conclusion that it is physically impossible for delusional assholes such as yourself can bear arms pursuant to the rights comprised by the 2nd Amendment RBKA to prevail against the armed forces. I invited you to declare your independence as a sovereign and try your brainfart and take on the U.S. Marines and Army. I wished you good luck in your delusional effort.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-27   18:02:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: tpaine (#79)

[tpaine #79] I, nor other patriots, will never have to fight our military, because they will be with us, and against you gun control freaks.

Either they have confiscated your guns and it is too late, or nobody has confiscated your guns and you are just bullshitting.

Being a delusional, lying asshole, does not make one a patriot. As you are certain the U.S. military will not fight your revolutionary overthrow of the government, and will join your patriotic effort, what are you waiting for? Just go ahead and restore the patriotic government now.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-27   18:02:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: tpaine (#79)

[nc #76] The 2nd Circuit court decision which is the topic of this thread should not get in your way is it effected no change to any law except to strike down a couple of existing provisions.

[tpaine #61] Yet you claim our govts have the power to prohibit our rights to semi-auto arms.. What in hell is wrong with you?

[nc #76] I read the court opinion and saw that the thread article was a pile of shit. Of course, you would quote the parts of the court opinion that provide for mass confiscation of guns, if you could find them. Two reasons you do not do so is that you have not read the opinion, and the provisions are not there.

[tpaine #79] I've read YOUR CONCLUSIONS about the opinion, and declared them 'a pile of shit'.

The most casual reading shows that you cannot cite or quote the actual opinion to support your bullshit.

I provided the entire opinion at #4.

It has to be humiliating to have the whole thing and be unable to cite anything to support the delusions coming from the tpaine court of the imagination. HINT: it is an APPELLATE opinion, and it did NOT reverse the District Court opinion to uphold anything that the District Court had struck down. The Appellate Court reversed the District Court to strike down as unconstitutional, several provisions of law that the District Court had held to be constitutional.

Before rendering your delusional opinion from your tpaine Court of the Imagination, you should try reading the Court opinion in question.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-27   18:03:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: tpaine (#80)

[tpaine #80] Union soldiers, both during and long after the war, testified that they were fighting for the constitutional principles of the UNION.

You are so full of shit. You must be referring to the constitutional principle of unlawfully suspending the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus by the military.

Or was it the constitutional principle of smashing printing presses?

Or taking newspaper editors and holding them as political prisoners, not my term, the term in the official records.

Perhaps they fought for the unapportioned income tax and the Internal Revenue Bureau (now IRS) to enforce the tax.

The North won. If the Constitution and Union of the Founders and Framers was fought for and upheld, why did it result in a massive Federal government, a massive standing army?

[tpaine #80] That you call Lincoln a "despot" explains a lot, Ms. Brady.

It was the Lincoln administration that took unconstitutional actions. He is the one who declared States to be little more than large Counties.

What is the particular sacredness of a State? I speak not of that position which is given to a State in and by the Constitution of the United States, for that all of us agree to—we abide by; but that position assumed, that a State can carry with it out of the Union that which it holds in sacredness by virtue of its connection with the Union. I am speaking of that assumed right of a State, as a primary principle, that the Constitution should rule all that is less than itself, and ruin all that is bigger than itself. But, I ask, wherein does consist that right? If a State, in one instance, and a county in another, should be equal in extent of territory, and equal in the number of people, wherein is that State any better than the county?

President Lincoln's message of July 4, 1861 to the Special Session of Congress.

- - -

The States have their status IN the Union, and they have no other legal status. If they break from this, they can only do so against law, and by revolution. The Union, and not themselves separately, procured their independence, and their liberty. By conquest, or purchase, the Union gave each of them, whatever of independence, and liberty, it has. The Union is older than any of the States; and, in fact, it created them as States.

President Lincoln's message of July 4, 1861 to the Special Session of Congress.

- - -

What is a confederation of states? By a confederacy, we mean a group of sovereign states which come together of their own free will and, in virtue of their sovereignty, create a collective entity. In doing so, they assign selective sovereign rights to the national body that will allow it to safeguard the existence of the joint union.

This theoretical definition does not apply in practice, at least not without some alterations, to any existing confederation of states in the world today. It applies the least to the American Union of States. Most of these individual states never possessed any sovereignty whatsoever. They were gradually brought into the framework of the union as a whole. Therefore. the various states of the American Union constitute, in most instances smaller or larger territories that were formed for technical administrative reasons and their borders were frequently drawn with a ruler. These states never possessed any previous sovereignty of their own because that would have been impossible. These states did not come together to create the Union, but it was the Union that created these so-called states. The extensive rights of independence that were relinquished, or rather rights that were granted, to the different territories are in harmony with the whole character of this confederation of states and with the vastness of its area and overall size which is almost as large as a continent. So, in referring to the states of the American Union, one cannot speak of their state soverignty, but only of their constitutionally guaranteed rights, which we could more accurately designate as privileges.

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Uncensored Version, The Ford Translation, ISBN 978-0-9845361-3-9, p. 460

- - -

All of us need to be reminded that the Federal Government did not create the States; the States created the Federal Government.

President Ronald Reagan, First Inaugural Address, Tuesday, January 20, 1981

= = = = = = = = = =

[1] President Lincoln's message of July 4, 1861 to the Special Session of Congress.

[2] President Lincoln's message of July 4, 1861 to the Special Session of Congress.

[3] Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Uncensored Version, The Ford Translation, ISBN 978-0-9845361-3-9, p. 460

[4] President Ronald Reagan, First Inaugural Address, Tuesday, January 20, 1981

= = = = = = = = = =

You obviously disagree with Reagan and adopt the position of Lincoln and Hitler.

There is is. You're a Nazi!!

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-27   18:09:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: tpaine (#80)

[nc #77] In the largest civil disturbance in U.S. history, the Navy shelled lower Manhattan, and army troops went from Gettysburg to New York. They destroyed printing presses of newspapers, killed random civilians as retribution, and held political prisoners, and that is only some of the stuff documented in the official records.

[tpaine #80] Yep, the draft riots in NYC, mostly started by immigrants unwilling to fight for our constitution, were "short-lived rebellions - met with overwhelming force." --- So What?

Creative history at its finest. The NYC mayor proposed secession from the State and the union.

EVERY attempt at rebellion has been met with overwhelming force. Open defiance is met with force.

Yet you say that if you turn your delusional bullshit into a revolution aimed at overthrowing the government, the U.S. military will join in your delusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion

[Excerpt]

Throughout counties in Western Pennsylvania, protesters used violence and intimidation to prevent federal officials from collecting the tax. Resistance came to a climax in July 1794, when a U.S. marshal arrived in western Pennsylvania to serve writs to distillers who had not paid the excise. The alarm was raised, and more than 500 armed men attacked the fortified home of tax inspector General John Neville. Washington responded by sending peace commissioners to western Pennsylvania to negotiate with the rebels, while at the same time calling on governors to send a militia force to enforce the tax. With 13,000 militiamen provided by the governors of Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, Washington rode at the head of an army to suppress the insurgency. The rebels all went home before the arrival of the army, and there was no confrontation. About 20 men were arrested, but all were later acquitted or pardoned. Most distillers in nearby Kentucky were found to be all but impossible to tax; in the next six years, over 175 distillers from Kentucky were convicted of violating the tax law. Numerous examples of resistance are recorded in court documents and newspaper accounts.

The Whiskey Rebellion demonstrated that the new national government had the will and the ability to suppress violent resistance to its laws.

http://chs.org/2007/12/shays-rebellion-in-connecticut/

[excerpt]

Shay’s rebellion was an armed uprising in western Massachusetts from 1786-1787. The rebels, led by farmer and former soldier Daniel Shays, were mostly small farmers angered by crushing debt and high land taxes. Congress, operating under the Articles of Confederation, called for armed troops to suppress the uprising but had no power to recruit the men or pay them. Massachusetts managed to mobilize a privately financed army and eventually defeated the rebels on February 3, 1787.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-10-27   18:10:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: nolu chan (#84)

You are so deluded that you think yo can take on the U.S. Armed Forces and prevail.

Not true and you know that I've never taken that position. You're now playing a detestable 'straw man' game. -- Have you no honor?

Dishonorable asshole! Are you channeling yukon? Are you really an 80-year old dishonorable asshole, or pajama boy posting from his mommie's basement?

You've lost control again, --- but in any case we're nearly done here, as you're simply repeating yourself and pasting up more non relevant 'legal' texts.

I'll check your next couple of overextended remarks, but I doubt there'll be anything worth commenting on...

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-27   19:51:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: nolu chan (#85)

I, nor other patriots, will never have to fight our military, because they will be with us, and against you gun control freaks.

Being a delusional, lying asshole, does not make one a patriot.

We agree. You're right, but you need help...

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-27   19:56:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: nolu chan (#87)

YOu claim our govts have the power to prohibit our rights to semi-auto arms.. What in hell is wrong with you?

I read the court opinion and saw that the thread article was a pile of shit. Of course, you would quote the parts of the court opinion that provide for mass confiscation of guns, if you could find them. Two reasons you do not do so is that you have not read the opinion, and the provisions are not there.

I read the opinion earlier and agree, mass confiscation provisions are not there. -- Never said they were.

However, --- I've read YOUR CONCLUSIONS about the opinion, and declared them 'a pile of prohibitive shit'.

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-27   20:06:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: nolu chan (#88)

In the largest civil disturbance in U.S. history, the Navy shelled lower Manhattan, and army troops went from Gettysburg to New York. They destroyed printing presses of newspapers, killed random civilians as retribution, and held political prisoners, and that is only some of the stuff documented in the official records.

[tpaine #80] Yep, the draft riots in NYC, mostly started by immigrants unwilling to fight for our constitution, were "short-lived rebellions - met with overwhelming force." --- So What?

Creative history at its finest.

You're denying the NYC draft riots happened roughly as I posted? -

-- But whatever, -- the fact remains, - you've exposed yourself as a gun prohibitionist, and you can't change that fact.

tpaine  posted on  2015-10-27   20:15:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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