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Title: Origins of 'Gospel of Jesus's Wife' Begin to Emerge
Source: Live Science
URL Source: http://www.livescience.com/51954-gospel-of-jesus-wife-origins.html
Published: Aug 24, 2015
Author: Owen Jarus, Live Science Contributor
Post Date: 2015-08-24 21:47:48 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 13332
Comments: 135

Written in Coptic (an Egyptian language), the Gospel of Jesus's Wife, if authentic, suggests that some people in ancient times believed Jesus was married, apparently to Mary Magdalene.

The truth may be finally emerging about the "Gospel of Jesus's Wife," a highly controversial papyrus suggesting that some people, in ancient times, believed Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. New research on the papyrus' ink points to the possibility that it is authentic, researchers say, while newly obtained documents may shed light on the origins of the business-card-sized fragment.

Debate about the credibility of the "gospel" began as soon as Harvard University professor Karen King reported her discovery of the papyrus in September 2012. Written in Coptic (an Egyptian language), the papyrus fragment contains a translated line that reads, "Jesus said to them, 'My wife …'" and also refers to a "Mary," possibly Mary Magdalene.

King had tentatively dated the papyrus to the fourth century, saying it may be a copy of a gospel written in the second century in Greek. [Read Translation of Gospel of Jesus's Wife Papyrus]

Analysis of the papyrus, detailed last year in the Harvard Theological Review journal, suggested the papyrus dates back around 1,200 years (somewhere between the sixth and ninth centuries) while the ink is of a type that could have been created at that time. These findings have led King to support the text's authenticity.

However over the past year many scholars have come to the conclusion that the papyrus is a modern-day forgery, though King and a few other researchers say they are not ready to concede this: "At this point, when discussions and research are ongoing, I think it is important, however difficult, to stay open regarding the possible dates of the inscription and other matters of interpretation," wrote King in a letter recently published in the magazine Biblical Archaeological Review. King has not responded to several interview requests from Live Science.

Now, researchers at Columbia University are running new tests on the ink used on the papyrus. Initial tests published by the Columbia University team in 2014 indicated the ink could have been made in ancient times. Researchers are saying little until their report is published; however they did talk about one finding that could provide some support for its authenticity.

A gospel steeped in mystery

The current owner of the papyrus has insisted on remaining anonymous, claiming that he bought the Gospel of Jesus's Wife, along with other Coptic texts, in 1999 from a man named Hans-Ulrich Laukamp. This person, in turn, got it from Potsdam, in what was East Germany, in 1963, the owner said.

Laukamp died in 2002, and the claim that he owned the text has been strongly disputed: Rene Ernest, the man whom Laukamp and his wife Helga charged with representing their estate, said that Laukamp had no interest in antiquities, did not collect them and was living in West Berlin in 1963. Therefore, he couldn't have crossed the Berlin Wall into Potsdam. Axel Herzsprung, a business partner of Laukamp's, similarly said that Laukamp never had an interest in antiquities and never owned a papyrus. Laukamp has no children or living relatives who could verify these claims. [6 Archaeological Forgeries That Tried to Change History]

Over the past few months, new documents have been found that not only reconstruct Laukamp's life in greater detail, but also provide a new way to check the anonymous owner's story.

King reported in a 2014 Harvard Theological Review article that the anonymous owner "provided me with a photocopy of a contract for the sale of '6 Coptic papyrus fragments, one believed to be a Gospel' from Hans-Ulrich Laukamp, dated Nov. 12, 1999, and signed by both parties." King also notes that "a handwritten comment on the contract states, 'Seller surrenders photocopies of correspondence in German. Papyri were acquired in 1963 by the seller in Potsdam (East Germany).'"

After searching public databases in Florida a Live Science reporter uncovered seven signatures signed by Laukamp between 1997 and 2001 on five notarized documents. Anyone can search these databases and download these documents. These signatures can be compared with the signature recording the sale of the Gospel of Jesus's Wife — providing another way to verify or disprove the story of how the "gospel" made its way to Harvard. The signature of Hans-Ulrich Laukamp from September 1997.

While Harvard University would have to work with forensic handwriting experts to verify the signature, the fact that these notarized documents exist, and are publicly available, presents the opportunity to see if Laukamp really did own the Gospel of Jesus's Wife. Forensic handwriting analysis, while not always conclusive, has been used to determine if signatures made on documents or works of art are authentic or forged. 

If Laukamp did own the papyrus, authentic or not, then the origins of the enigmatic text lie with him. The new Laukamp documents allow the story of his life between 1995 and 2002 to be told in some detail. However if Laukamp didn't own the papyrus and the anonymous owner has not been truthful, then further doubt would be cast on the papyrus' authenticity, and information leading to the identity, motives and techniques of the forgers could be found.

Authentic or forged?

One important find, which indicates the Gospel of Jesus's Wife is a fake, was made last year by Christian Askeland, a research associate with the Institute for Septuagint and Biblical Research in Wuppertal, Germany. He examined a second Coptic papyrus containing part of the Gospel of John, which the anonymous owner of the Gospel of Jesus's Wife had also given to Harvard. This text was likewise supposedly purchased from Laukamp, and radiocarbon testing of that papyrus similarly found that it dates back around 1,200 years. [See Images of the Ancient Gospel of Judas]

Askeland found that the text and line breaks— where one line of a text ends and another begins — are identical to those of another papyrus, published in a 1924 book. That second papyrus was written in a dialect of Coptic called Lycopolitan, which went extinct around 1,500 years ago. Askeland concluded that the John papyrus is a forgery. Furthermore, it shares other features with the Gospel of Jesus's Wife, Askeland said, suggesting both are forgeries.

"The two Coptic fragments clearly shared the same ink, writing implement and scribal hand. The same artisan had created both essentially at the same time," Askeland wrote in a paper recently published in the journal New Testament Studies.

King objected to this conclusion in her Biblical Archaeology Review letter, noting that the John fragment could have been copied in ancient times, long after Lycopolitan went extinct, from a text that had similar line breaks.

In addition, James Yardley, a senior research scientist at Columbia University, told Live Science that the new tests confirm that the Gospel of Jesus's Wife holds different ink than the John papyrus. This could undercut Askeland's argument that the two papyri were written by the same person.

"In our first exploration, we did state that the inks used for the two documents of interest [the John papyrus and the Gospel of Jesus's Wife] were quite different. The more recent results do confirm this observation strongly," Yardley told Live Science.

He added that until his new research is published in a peer-reviewed journal, he doesn't want to say anything more publicly. And once it's published, Askeland and other researchers will have a chance to respond.

Askeland's find is far from the only argument that the Gospel of Jesus's Wife is a fake: A number of scholars have noted that the Coptic writing in the Gospel of Jesus's Wife is similar to another early Christian text called the "Gospel of Thomas," even including a modern-day typo made in a 2002 edition of the Gospel of Thomas that is available for free online. That typo indicates the forgers copied from this modern-day text. King disputed this assertion in 2014, saying that ancient scribes made grammatical errors similar to the modern-day typo.

King and communications staff at Harvard Divinity School have not responded to repeated requests for comment.

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#1. To: cranky (#0)

Why would Jesus need a wife?

Justified  posted on  2015-08-24   22:10:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: cranky (#0)

Heretics and scoffers will not give up until the very end.

Don  posted on  2015-08-24   22:14:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Justified, cranky (#1)

Why would Jesus need a wife?

He was not allowed to masterbate.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-08-24   22:17:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Don, redleghunter (#2)

Heretics and scoffers will not give up until the very end.

What if the document is proven not to be a forgery?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-08-24   22:19:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Justified (#1)

Why would Jesus need a wife?

Maybe, Jesus read in the Old Testament, "be fruitful and multiply" or something like that.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-08-24   22:27:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: cranky (#0)

How many times are they going to 're-rinse this Gnostic nonsense.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   1:06:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: SOSO (#4)

Proven? By whom? The people who want it desperately to be true?

Don  posted on  2015-08-25   7:48:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: buckeroo (#5)

God is multiplying. The many Christians who believe in God is proof of multiplying.

Don  posted on  2015-08-25   7:50:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Justified (#1)

Why would Jesus need a wife?

Possibly for the same reason(s) He needed disciples?

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-08-25   7:58:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: redleghunter (#6)

How many times are they going to 're-rinse this Gnostic nonsense.

Hard to say.

Maybe when the evidence is conclusive, one way or the other.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-08-25   7:59:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Don (#2)

Heretics and scoffers will not give up until the very end.

Some people prefer proof to faith, I guess.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-08-25   8:01:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Justified (#1)

Why would Jesus need a wife?

For the same reasons everyone else needs a wife?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-25   9:00:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Don (#7)

Proven? By whom? The people who want it desperately to be true?

What's wrong with it being true?

Are you so programmed to think of sex as an evil act that you think Jesus would go to hell for having sex? Even inside a marriage?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-25   9:04:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Don (#8)

The many Christians who believe in God is proof of multiplying.

Uhhhh,it is Christians having all that "dirty sex" that are multiplying,and Christians by definition believe in the Christian God.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-25   9:06:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: cranky, Don, GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13 (#11)

Some people prefer proof to faith, I guess.

The proof thusfar has been that this fragment is a later fabrication...fraud.

It's in the article.

What these 'researchers' are after is to find something believing it contradicts the Scriptures we have now. They lose everytime because even though they tout scholarship, they fail to even understand the time period involved. Even in the days of the Apostles in the early 1st century there were already heretics they warned believers about.

Let's put this in perspective. If today thousands of people wrote cranky was a stand up guy, that he gave to the poor and spent all his earthly wealth on hospitals for disabled children. Fast forward 1,000 years as everyone was going through 10's of thousands of the 'cranky archives' and they find out all these wonderful things about you. But someone digs one or two blogs on cranky calling him a child abuser, a cheat on his wife and a secret Hillary Clinton supporter. Shocking! Modern liberal 'scholarship' tells us the 10s of thousands of documents saying otherwise must be discredited for some jealous jerk who happened to spend a few bucks on his own blog site to bear false witness.

That's exactly what you have with these fragments of ancient 'jerks' who were either deceived or had an axe to grind.

But people who really know cranky and his works (which live on thousands of yers later by people inspired by what he did), know the jerk who wrote garbage about him is just a jerk who should be paid no mind.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   9:07:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: redleghunter (#15)

The proof thusfar has been that this fragment is a later fabrication...fraud.

By those standards the whole Old Testament is a fraud.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-08-25   9:09:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: SOSO, buckeroo, cranky, sneakypete (#1)

Why would Jesus need a wife?

I think everyone is missing the point. He has the ultimate control over mind body and soul.

You need air to breath. You need water and food for nourishment. You don't actually need sex to survive. You don't need other people to survive. These are things we "want" but don't "need".

Justified  posted on  2015-08-25   9:16:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: cranky (#10)

Maybe when the evidence is conclusive, one way or the other.

The article gave ample evidence this and other Gnostic texts are forgeries.

The latest they can place these fragments is 1200 years ago. That's not very 'ancient' when it comes to fragments and manuscripts.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   9:16:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: redleghunter (#6)

How many times are they going to 're-rinse this Gnostic nonsense.

Until they make everyone the same as them. I find many of this stuff comes from the Jewish people who really dislike Christianity because some Christians have been very abrasive to them. No one likes to be challenged about their beliefs. It doesn't have to be just Jewish people but they tend to be the ones that promote this crap the most.

Justified  posted on  2015-08-25   9:21:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: cranky (#0)

The Bride of CHRIST is the church. Not the RC church, but the body of believers known as Born Again Washed in the Blood of the Lamb Christians.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-08-25   9:24:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: sneakypete, GarySpFc, liberator, tomder55, cranky, A K A Stone, BobCeleste, Don, CZ82, Chuck_Wagon, *Bible Study Ping* (#16)

By those standards the whole Old Testament is a fraud.

The Dead Sea Scrolls say otherwise.

When these researchers find thousands of fragments that "Jesus had a wife" then you can jump for joy. But this is only one fragment and the author is unknown, the ink is in question for the time period of the 'paper' used.

Also, the NT points to the use of the "OT" (TaNaKh) both Hebrew and Greek version. The OT is quoted in the NT and Jesus Christ picks up a scroll in Luke 4 and reads from the Prophet Isaiah.

The forgery in question in the article has no such linkages or uses in history.

Let us visit how this one, ONE, forgery stands with the manuscript and historical evidence of the Bible the OT (TaNaKh) and NT (Brit HaHadashah):

Old Testament

Manuscripts

The following is a list of the oldest Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament that are still in existence.

•The Dead Sea Scrolls: date from 200 B.C. - 70 A.D. and contain the entire book of Isaiah and portions of every other Old Testament book but Esther.

•Geniza Fragments: portions the Old Testament in Hebrew and Aramaic, discovered in 1947 in an old synagogue in Cairo, Egypt, which date from about 400 A.D.

•Ben Asher Manuscripts: five or six generations of this family made copies of the Old Testament using the Masoretic Hebrew text, from 700-950 A.D. The following are examples of the Hebrew Masoretic text-type.

◦Aleppo Codex: contains the complete Old Testament and is dated around 950 A.D. Unfortunately over one quarter of this Codex was destroyed in anti-Jewish riots in 1947.

◦Codex Leningradensis: The complete Old Testament in Hebrew copied by the last member of the Ben Asher family in A.D. 1008.

Translations

The Old Testament was translated very early into Aramaic and Greek.

•400 B.C. The Old Testament began to be translated into Aramaic. This translation is called the Aramaic Targums. This translation helped the Jewish people, who began to speak Aramaic from the time of their captivity in Babylon, to understand the Old Testament in the language that they commonly spoke. In the first century Palestine of Jesus' day, Aramaic was still the commonly spoken language. For example maranatha: "Our Lord has come," 1 Corinthians 16:22 is an example of an Aramaic word that is used in the New Testament.

•250 B.C. The Old Testament was translated into Greek. This translation is known as the Septuagint. It is sometimes designated "LXX" (which is Roman numeral for "70") because it was believed that 70 to 72 translators worked to translate the Hebrew Old Testament in Greek. The Septuagint was often used by New Testament writers when they quoted from the Old Testament. The LXX was translation of the Old Testament that was used by the early Church.

1. The following is a list of the oldest Greek LXX translations of the Old Testament that are still in existence.

◦Chester Beatty Papyri: Contains nine Old Testament Books in the Greek Septuagint and dates between 100-400 A.D.

◦Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus each contain almost the entire Old Testament of the Greek Septuagint and they both date around 350 A.D.

New Testament

Manuscripts

There are over 5,600 early Greek Manuscripts of the New Testament that are still in existence. The oldest manuscripts were written on papyrus and the later manuscripts were written on leather called parchment.

•125 A.D. The New Testament manuscript which dates most closely to the original autograph was copied around 125 A.D, within 35 years of the original. It is designated "p 52" and contains a small portion of John 18. (The "p" stands for papyrus.)

•200 A.D. Bodmer p 66 a papyrus manuscript which contains a large part of the Gospel of John.

•200 A.D. Chester Beatty Biblical papyrus p 46 contains the Pauline Epistles and Hebrews.

•225 A.D. Bodmer Papyrus p 75 contains the Gospels of Luke and John.

•250-300 A.D. Chester Beatty Biblical papyrus p 45 contains portions of the four Gospels and Acts.

•350 A.D. Codex Sinaiticus contains the entire New Testament and almost the entire Old Testament in Greek. It was discovered by a German scholar Tisendorf in 1856 at an Orthodox monastery at Mt. Sinai.

•350 A.D. Codex Vaticanus: {B} is an almost complete New Testament. It was cataloged as being in the Vatican Library since 1475.

Translations

Early translations of the New Testament can give important insight into the underlying Greek manuscripts from which they were translated.

•180 A.D. Early translations of the New Testament from Greek into Latin, Syriac, and Coptic versions began about 180 A.D.

•195 A.D. The name of the first translation of the Old and New Testaments into Latin was termed Old Latin, both Testaments having been translated from the Greek. Parts of the Old Latin were found in quotes by the church father Tertullian, who lived around 160-220 A.D. in north Africa and wrote treatises on theology.

•300 A.D. The Old Syriac was a translation of the New Testament from the Greek into Syriac.

•300 A.D. The Coptic Versions: Coptic was spoken in four dialects in Egypt. The Bible was translated into each of these four dialects.

•380 A.D. The Latin Vulgate was translated by St. Jerome. He translated into Latin the Old Testament from the Hebrew and the New Testament from Greek. The Latin Vulgate became the Bible of the Western Church until the Protestant Reformation in the 1500's. It continues to be the authoritative translation of the Roman Catholic Church to this day. The Protestant Reformation saw an increase in translations of the Bible into the common languages of the people.

•Other early translations of the Bible were in Armenian, Georgian, and Ethiopic, Slavic, and Gothic.

•1380 A.D. The first English translation of the Bible was by John Wycliffe. He translated the Bible into English from the Latin Vulgate. This was a translation from a translation and not a translation from the original Hebrew and Greek. Wycliffe was forced to translate from the Latin Vulgate because he did not know Hebrew or Greek.

There's much more here:

History of the Bible: How The Bible Came To Us

And here:

When were the New Testament Books written?

Perspective is important. After reviewing the above we have this to compare:

•Caesar’s Gallic Wars was written in the first century B.C. There are only 10 manuscripts in existence. The earliest textual evidence we have was copied 1,000 years after the original.

•Aristotle’s Poetics was written in the fourth century B.C. There are only 5 manuscripts in existence. The earliest textual evidence we have was copied 1,400 years after the original.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   9:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Justified (#19)

PING

libertysflame.com/cgi-bin...? ArtNum=41557&Disp=21#C21

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   9:58:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Justified (#19)

It doesn't have to be just Jewish people but they tend to be the ones that promote this crap the most.

Usually the atheist variant.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   9:59:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: redleghunter (#15)

It's in the article.

I think I'll defer judgement until the peer reviewed paper is published.

As far as the fragment of papyrus goes, either in is an authentic artifact dating from the fourth century or it is not.

If it is authentic, it should be given the as much or as little weight as any other shard of papyrus, imo.

And let the chips fall where they may.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-08-25   10:03:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: cranky (#24)

I think I'll defer judgement until the peer reviewed paper is published.

As far as the fragment of papyrus goes, either in is an authentic artifact dating from the fourth century or it is not.

If it is authentic, it should be given the as much or as little weight as any other shard of papyrus, imo.

How many peer reviews does this fragment need? It has already been reviewed several times and deemed a forgery.

How many times was "Jesus has a wife" been recopied? Where is the manuscript evidence?

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   10:06:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: sneakypete (#14)

You are talking about dirty sex, and I'm talking about souls that acknowledge God as Savior. The Holy Bible talks about the children of God.

Don  posted on  2015-08-25   10:13:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: sneakypete (#13)

Where in the Holy Bible does it talk about Christ having a wife? It does talk about the family of God: brothers, sisters, mother, father. Who is the Bride of Christ, according to the Book of Revelation?

Don  posted on  2015-08-25   10:18:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: redleghunter (#25)

It has already been reviewed several times and deemed a forgery.

If the science is valid, then it will be deemed a forgery again.

That's fine with me.

There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't

cranky  posted on  2015-08-25   10:42:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: redleghunter (#25)

And let's pause for a moment to think about whether it really makes any difference, theologically, that Jesus had a wife or not.

Let's given the Mary Magdelene theorists the greatest slack and say "Ok, Mary Magdelene, former sinner, became Jesus' wife." That would explain why Jesus revealed himself to her first after the resurrection, and why he would speak to her tenderly.

But beyond that, does it change ANYTHING about the faith?

No. It doesn't change a single thing. It changes some ideas about the practice of the religion - example: clerical celibacy. But then, the Scriptures already tell us that Jesus healed Peter's Mother-in-Law, and Peter was the first Pope, so it changes less than appears.

For those who (foolishly) think that bloodlines matter (foolishly: because ALL are descended equally from Noah and Naamah, and from Adam and Eve), then let's suppose that Jesus and Mary Magdelene even had children. Once again, so what? "Royal blood" and "bloodline" concerns are the concerns of vaguely pagan medieval warlords. God never suggested that any attention be paid to them at all, other than in the context of titles to ancestral clan farms in Israel, under the old covenant.

Spiritual guidance doesn't flow with bloodlines but with the breath of God's spirit into each individual - and Jesus said that all who believed were his brothers and sisters.

If Jesus had a wife and child, it would change some ecclesiology, but it would not change theology at all (except to the extent that men have confused ecclesiology with theology - which is to say, except to the extent that men have fallen under the spell of idolatry).

Bottom line: there's no "gotcha" there even if Jesus DID have a wife, and children. And if there are living lineal descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdelene in the world today, they either have favor with God, or not, depending on whether they believe and keep the commandments, just exactly like everybody else.

There are very probably descendants of Nephilim in the world today. The Basques may be their descendants. The Rh negative blood type may be the marker of that peculiar ancestry. They're just men, neither specially blessed nor specially cursed. Having a fallen angel as a 55-times great grandparent means nothing. What matters is whether you love God and keep the commandments. That's what God said.

MEN add importance to other things. But God said "Don't add". So don't.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-25   11:05:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: cranky, Don, GarySpFc, Vicomte13 (#0)

The current owner of the papyrus has insisted on remaining anonymous, claiming that he bought the Gospel of Jesus's Wife, along with other Coptic texts, in 1999 from a man named Hans-Ulrich Laukamp. This person, in turn, got it from Potsdam, in what was East Germany, in 1963, the owner said.

If authentic, suggests that some people in ancient times believed Jesus was married, apparently to Mary Magdalene.

HA! "IF authentic".

Also discovered by "researchers" on ancient papyrus ("If authentic"):

1) "Jesus' mother wore Army boots"
2) "Jesus was the thrice-divorced transgendered alcoholic father to three children (one lesbian, one homo, and one also a tranny)"
3) Autographed papyrus of his 'Sermon On The Mount', signed with the note, "Party ON, Garth! Best Wishes, Jesus and Mary Christ"

Forensic handwriting analysts at both Harvard Theological Review journal and Columbia U. are studying whether or not Jesus' signature has been forged.

TMZ and LBGT researchers are looking closely into what may actually be a sordid tabloid past of Jesus that has been covered up for over 2000 years.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   11:12:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Justified (#1)

Why would Jesus need a wife?

Who else was going to do his laundry and make him sammiches?

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   11:14:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Don (#2)

Heretics and scoffers will not give up until the very end.

No...but they will not escape eternal doom either.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   11:16:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: SOSO, Don, redleghunter (#4)

What if the document is proven not to be a forgery?

Are you actually considering this blatant BS as a possibility??

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   11:19:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: redleghunter (#6)

How many times are they going to 're-rinse this Gnostic nonsense.

Propaganda is best repeated.

With as many faith-challenged, fools and pods are out there hoping the Bible and Gospel is a lie, absurdity through the power of suggestion plants just enough doubt to justify rolling the dice on the lot of their soul.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   11:24:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Liberator (#34)

With as many faith-challenged, fools and pods are out there hoping the Bible and Gospel is a lie, absurdity through the power of suggestion plants just enough doubt to justify rolling the dice on the lot of their soul.

Interesting insight.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   11:33:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: cranky (#11)

Some people prefer proof to faith, I guess.

From 'The Dan Rather School of "Proof"'?

With as many witnesses to the life of Jesus as there were, and as many enemies as He had at the time, IF there were actual "proof" of a wife, Jesus' contemporaries and historians would have been all over it. EARLY ON.

Instead we are asked to believe the most flimsy of obvious forgeries that crop up like clock-work every half-dozen years or so.

Question for you: What of all the overwhelming proof and details of Jesus personal quotes, deeds, and acts; and of places, and things, of eyewitness accounts cited from the Apostles? Why are they so readily dismissed in lieu of these single sordid tabloid "discoveries"?

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   11:34:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Liberator (#36)

Question for you: What of all the overwhelming proof and details of Jesus personal quotes, deeds, and acts; and of places, and things, of eyewitness accounts cited from the Apostles? Why are they so readily dismissed in lieu of these single sordid tabloid "discoveries"?

Yep the above is 'pin the tail on the donkey' time.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”"---Isaiah 40:8

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-25   11:36:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: redleghunter (#35)

I suspect most of these people who dwell only in a Material World they can "see" in their hearts *know* the truth, but won't surrender it, their spirit and soul to it to God. As a gesture of ultimate contempt (as had recently and suddenly deceased good friend) they reject their Lord of Lords.

This most stubborn act and exercise of having both a passive tantrum while holding their breath till they're blue (until God shows up on their doorstep) only serves to sabotage one's own soul forever. It's the only way pseudo-disbelievers (who call themselves "Agnostics" and Atheists") feel they can "diss" a God who refuses to make an encore appearance (at their whim.) In the meantime these same people demand the God they reject make THIS moral plane a "fair" place -- if not a premature Heaven.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   12:08:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: redleghunter (#37)

Yep the above is 'pin the tail on the donkey' time.

Yup. I don't understand that grossly imbalanced "burden of proof" dynamic from a rational person. They'd rather pin the tail on a flea rather than on the tail of an elephant.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   12:11:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: sneakypete, Don (#13)

What's wrong with it being true?

Wrong premise; It's a matter of humoring a lie perpetrated by those with a subversive agenda.

Are you so programmed to think of sex as an evil act that you think Jesus would go to hell for having sex? Even inside a marriage?

Irrelevant to the lying claim that Jesus "had a wife".

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-25   12:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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