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Title: Time to free Puerto Rico as it asks for relief of $72 Billion in debt from US Taxpayers
Source: latimes.com
URL Source: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-pu ... ernor-says-20150629-story.html
Published: Jun 29, 2015
Author: TRACY WILKINSON
Post Date: 2015-06-29 20:08:18 by Pericles
Keywords: None
Views: 2568
Comments: 34

If it was not for fear of Puerto Rico becoming another Soviet ally like Cuba, the USA would have freed that island long ago. Now we are stuck with a welfare island whose welfare taking citizens can just come to the USA with an American passport. But because of Hispanic politics and maybe lingering love of empire from the Military Industrial Complex, no American politician dares promise to free Puerto Rico. What would Puerto Rico do? Refuse to leave being a colony? That would be a first. At least under the old system Cold War, Puerto Rico made money for American businesses as a plantation island and as a steam ship era naval base.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-puerto-rico-can-t-pay-its-public-debt- island-s-governor-says-20150629-story.html

Puerto Rico staggers under $72 billion in debt; governor asks for help

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#1. To: Pericles (#0)

no American politician dares promise to free Puerto Rico

Dimwitted LaRoucher,

Puerto Rico regularly votes on it's status. The last vote was in 2012 when just 5.49% of Puerto Ricans voted for independence.

You need to stop your crazy, ant-America LaRoucher bullshit.

cranko  posted on  2015-06-29   20:33:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Pericles (#0)

Now we are stuck with a welfare island whose welfare taking citizens can just come to the USA with an American passport.

The issue is with PR's energy department. About 85% of the debt is owed for and about imported petroleum as they have, quite literally, not much for themselves in natural energy supplies that have been exploited or otherwise cultivated for commercial use.

Almost all of Congress agree to accept statehood for PR. With this "crisis," watch both PR/USA governments manage the economic uncertainty of past mistakes into viable statehood solutions.

Anyone want to wager that PR becomes the next US state?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-29   21:08:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: cranko (#1)

uerto Rico regularly votes on it's status.

Who cares what they do. Kick them out.

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-29   21:20:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Pericles (#3)

Kick them out.

Because a lazy Greek LaRoucher says we should?

cranko  posted on  2015-06-29   21:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: cranko (#4)

What is a LaRoucher and why do you want PRs in America as a colony? So your taxes can pay for their welfare?

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-30   1:13:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Pericles (#5)

What is a LaRoucher...

I'm not sure of the relevance of the accusation. I don't recall any posts you made that sounded like a LaRouche cult member. Back at LP, we did have a few threads/posts by an apparent LaRouche type.

The last I recall of a LaRouche candidate was Kesha Rogers in Texas. Another LaRouchie Dem was on the ballot for Thad McCotter's seat.

Wiki: Lyndon LaRouche

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-30   7:52:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TooConservative, cranko (#6)

I have zero idea what a LaRoucher is. My guess is cranko can't reply back without ad hominid attack or some such. With that said PR is one of the worst things FDR saddled the country with. You can't get rid of it now since the Supreme Court idiots declared every PR a US citizen. If the USA were to let go of PR 99.99% of the island would leave as soon as possible for the States.

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-30   8:36:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Pericles (#7)

Puerto Rico is only one of the U.S. territories that enjoy the same privileges. They're natives when they want to be, U.S. citizens with full benefits otherwise.

We should have cut them all loose long since. I doubt that will happen though.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-30   8:45:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: TooConservative (#8)

uerto Rico is only one of the U.S. territories that enjoy the same privileges. They're natives when they want to be, U.S. citizens with full benefits otherwise.

We should have cut them all loose long since. I doubt that will happen though.

Why would PR want to lose out on Uncle Sugar?

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-30   8:47:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: TooConservative (#6)

I'm not sure of the relevance of the accusation. I don't recall any posts you made that sounded like a LaRouche cult member.

He quotes a guy (David Goldman) who was a Laroucher for 19 years.

Pericles has claimed he "conservative" and Goldman claims that he was a member of the Reagan administration (even though he didn't leave the LaRouche organization until 1988). Goldman also has a history of trashing Reagan and other conservatives, for example here .

Both Pericles and Goldmand are lunatics.

cranko  posted on  2015-06-30   9:22:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: cranko, Pericles (#10) (Edited)

He quotes a guy (David Goldman) who was a Laroucher for 19 years.

Where did Pericles or his article excerpt quote this Goldman character? I didn't see it and don't find the name in the LAT article either.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-30   9:34:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: TooConservative (#11)

Pericles quotes David Goldman -- a high ranking member of the LaRouche organization for 19 years

Look at post #21. As explained in post #35, Goldman was an LaRouche ally for 19 years and didn't leave the organization until 1988.

cranko  posted on  2015-06-30   9:59:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: buckeroo (#2)

"About 85% of the debt is owed for and about imported petroleum ..."

Debt is fungible. You can't simply assign a specific expense and blame everything on that. For example, maybe they could pay for their imported petroleum if they spent less on government social programs for the parasites.

From WSJ:

"Puerto Rico’s problems date to the end of the Cold War, when the U.S. began closing military bases on the island ..."

"The expiration of corporate tax breaks in 2006 prompted an exodus of pharmaceutical and other manufacturers, nudging the island into a deep recession.

"As the economy worsened, migration to the U.S. mainland accelerated, further shrinking the tax base. Puerto Rico’s population has fallen 4.7% since 2010 to 3.5 million, a period when the U.S. overall grew 3%."

"The economy, meanwhile, faces big structural problems. Sprawling bureaucracy and high electricity costs stunt business investment. Tax evasion runs rampant. Unemployment is high, at 12%, and fewer than half of all civilians are in the labor force, compared with around 63% on the mainland."

"Economists say a bloated welfare state discourages work—the share of the working-age population on disability is nearly 50% higher than in the 50 states —while a minimum wage that is high relative to productivity and local income reduces job opportunities for young and low-skilled workers."

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-30   10:20:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: cranko, TooConservative (#12)

So using cranko's faulty logic, Reagan continued being a New Deal Democrat long after he claimed he left the Democrat party.

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-30   10:21:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: TooConservative (#8)

Puerto Rico is only one of the U.S. territories that enjoy the same privileges. They're natives when they want to be, U.S. citizens with full benefits otherwise.

Are they "bi-state" or "trans-state"?

Having their cake and eating it too. DESPITE all the tax breaks and economic advantages, this dopey American island Shang-ri-la going bankrupt?? HOW?!? Socialism married crony-capitalism marries corruption. The Left *knows* at whatever level of gross mismanagement, stupidity, and malfeasance it governs, it will be always bailed out.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-30   10:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Pericles, cranko, TooConservative (#14)

So using cranko's faulty logic, Reagan continued being a New Deal Democrat long after he claimed he left the Democrat party.

Uh, no -- that's YOU still mired in a long standing addiction of creating your own il-logical, fallacious (Leftist-speak) conclusions.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-30   10:24:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: buckeroo (#2)

The issue is with PR's energy department. About 85% of the debt is owed for and about imported petroleum as they have, quite literally, not much for themselves in natural energy supplies that have been exploited or otherwise cultivated for commercial use.

They have plenty of "energy": THE SUN.

Solar panels ought to blanket the entire island.

Almost all of Congress agree to accept statehood for PR. With this "crisis," watch both PR/USA governments manage the economic uncertainty of past mistakes into viable statehood solutions.

Anyone want to wager that PR becomes the next US state?

Yep. We know where this is heading. In the same year the idiots will make DC a "state" as well.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-30   10:27:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Liberator (#16)

Uh, no -- that's YOU still mired in a long standing addiction of creating your own il-logical, fallacious (Leftist-speak) conclusions.

No, that is not the conversation's topic.

Pericles  posted on  2015-06-30   10:27:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Pericles (#18)

No, that is not the conversation's topic.

Your long-standing biases and agenda can't help but taint your posting. Even when you think its benign.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-30   10:30:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: misterwhite (#13)

Debt is fungible.

Nope. Debt is tangible; it is a complete point of planning within any organization to avoid, whether personal, private sector, publick sector or government entity. There are no exclusions, either.

Debt is to be avoided by proper planning within any organization.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-30   10:34:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Liberator (#17) (Edited)

They have plenty of "energy": THE SUN.

Excellent! Surf's up!

Who shall invest in PR's infrastructure? You or me? How about you knocking on your next door neighbour's front door and pitching PR's SUN & FUN while they don't produce a dime?

Yeah ... lib ... let's see you sell the idea.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-30   10:38:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: buckeroo (#20)

You can claim that the reason you can't pay your electric bill this month is due to the high cost of electricity, but we both know the real reason is that you bought a new HDTV with that money.

That's what I mean by "debt is fungible".

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-30   10:41:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: misterwhite (#22)

That is a another social phobia to be avoided, kinda like the "black plague" of about 1000 AD.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-30   10:44:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: buckeroo (#21)

Excellent! Surf's up!

("I'm waxing my rainbow surf board....rainbow speedo too...")

Who shall invest in PR's infrastructure? You or me? How about you knocking on your next door neighbour's front door and pitching PR's SUN & FUN while they don't produce a dime? Yeah ... lib ... let's see you sell the idea.

Hey -- we'd both pitch it to this gubmint...win the bid ($500m sound good to you?) And we'd park our yacht off shore, watching the start-up epic fail go down (as i/2 of it sits in Cayman.) Commie-Crony Crapitalism at its best.

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-30   10:47:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: misterwhite (#13)

"Puerto Rico’s problems date to the end of the Cold War, when the U.S. began closing military bases on the island ..."

Puerto Rico demand the closing of Vieques. The same thing happened with Culebra. They demand the closing of our bases, and then whine about the economic impact when they get what they wanted.

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-06-30   10:49:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Liberator (#24)

I am confident Hillary&Bill already played that card. Are you aware of their antics?

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-30   10:58:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: nativist nationalist (#25)

"Puerto Rico demand the closing of Vieques."

I'd wager that all the whiny liberals waving their little signs demanding those bases be closed have left Puerto Rico for greener pastures in the US.

Liberals are not known for taking personal responsibility for their actions.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-30   11:00:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Liberator (#24)

("I'm waxing my rainbow surf board....rainbow speedo too...")

What ever you do, don't buff the speedoes while wearing them in publick; it could cause some unintended opinions 'bout yourself.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-06-30   11:00:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: buckeroo (#26)

Hitlery and Bubba's antics? I've lost count. (have they beat us to the punch in this case?)

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-30   11:03:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: buckeroo (#28)

Heh...(imagery NOT necessary)

Liberator  posted on  2015-06-30   11:03:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: cranko, Pericles (#12)

Look at post #21. As explained in post #35, Goldman was an LaRouche ally for 19 years and didn't leave the organization until 1988.

I see a link to Goldman's columns in #21.

Anyway, Wiki offers this:

From 1976 to 1982, Goldman was responsible for economic publications in the radical left Lyndon LaRouche movement. Goldman has described himself during that period as a radical and an atheist. After having been a leftist and working with LaRouche,[3] he became a conservative and worked for the Reagan administration and later on Wall Street.[4]

Since the early 1980s, Goldman's perceptions began to change as he approaches progressively towards the conservative pole. Since 1984, Goldman has been employed as an economist and CEO of investment funds and investment policies in senior positions in bodies such as Credit Suisse,[5] Cantor Fitzgerald, Asteri Capital,[5] SG Capital, and others. After leaving Wall Street, he became an editor for First Things magazine.[5] Since September 2013, Goldman has been a Managing Director and head of the Americas division of the Reorient Group investment bank based in Hong Kong.

As an economist, Goldman published hundreds of articles and studies on various economic subjects, in professional journals as well as journals and dailies such as Wall Street Journal, Commentary, and Bloomberg Businessweek. He was a columnist for Forbes from 1994 to 2001.[5]

Alongside his work as an economist and analyst, he has published articles in musicology journals, and wrote his first book, published in 1989. Between 2002 and 2011, Goldman served as a member of the board of directors of Mannes School of Music, where he had been previously a teacher.

This is far less disreputable IMO than some of the neocons who cheered as the tanks rolled into Prague and other shameful episodes before they became flag-waving patriot pro-American hawks, e.g. Irving Kristol, the Horowitz clan, etc.

He's now running Asia Times, a rather conservative outlet in that region. And LaRouche cultists don't get hired at WSJ, Commentary, Bloomberg and Forbes.

Looks to me like you're stretching to find some fault with Pericles and "LaRouchie cultist" based on his quoting someone who was a LaRouche type over 30 years ago is the closest thing you could find. I hope it made you happy.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-06-30   17:28:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: misterwhite (#13)

"The economy, meanwhile, faces big structural problems. Sprawling bureaucracy and high electricity costs stunt business investment. Tax evasion runs rampant. Unemployment is high, at 12%, and fewer than half of all civilians are in the labor force, compared with around 63% on the mainland."

"Economists say a bloated welfare state discourages work—the share of the working-age population on disability is nearly 50% higher than in the 50 states —while a minimum wage that is high relative to productivity and local income reduces job opportunities for young and low-skilled workers."

Except for the whole tax evasion thing, this would be a Progressive's Paradise.

Relatively high minimum wage and low working population? Looks like America does have a bright future!

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-07-01   3:36:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: TheFireBert (#32)

unemployment is high, at 12%, and fewer than half of all civilians are in the labor force,

A good illustration of why unemployment statistics are more than 50% significant baloney.

VxH  posted on  2015-07-01   4:50:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: buckeroo (#21)

Who shall invest in PR's infrastructure?

You kidding? The only thing they produce is welfare babies.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-07-01   5:21:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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