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Title: Confederate Symbols, Heritage Not Hate
Source:
examiner.com
URL Source: http://www.examiner.com/article/con ... rate-symbols-heritage-not-hate
Published: May 31, 2014
Author: Michael Climo
Post Date: 2015-06-25 11:20:36 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 6394
Comments: 23
Confederate Symbols, Heritage Not Hate, In this era of political correctness symbols of the Confederacy have come under increasing attack by the media and many special interest groups. Monuments, flags and even the names of men who served have been subjected to barrages of contempt and protest by people who find them to be personally offensive. Of course the main target of their consternation is the battle flag which is also known as the St. Andrew's Cross. What many people do not know is that this flag was never the national flag of the Confederacy. It was not even the only battle flag used by the Confederate armies but that brings me to my point. Southern history (and history in general) seems to be misunderstood by the majority of people. Many people that speak out against the battle flag do so because they believe it symbolizes the Confederate States of America which in their mind was created only to defend and perpetuate the institution of slavery. Many of these same critics seem unaware or unwilling to consider the men, who fought, suffered and died under this flag were fighting for many different reasons. The least of these for most of them was slavery. So, what were the motives that caused soldiers to fight, suffer and in many cases die for the Confederacy in the War Between the States? In the novel Cold Mountain by Charles Frazier, a Confederate soldier named Inman has had enough late in the war and leaves the battlefields for home. In North Carolina he meets an old mountain woman who asks him: "Did you own any (slaves)?" "No. Not hardly anybody I knew did." "Then what stirred you up enough for fighting and dying?" "Four years ago I maybe could have told you. Now I don't know. I guess many of us fought to drive off invaders." Frazier's Inman was not alone in having expressed that thought. In Ken Burns' PBS television series The Civil War, novelist-turned-historian Shelby Foote is asked the same question the mountain woman asked Inman. He replies with this anecdote: "Early on in the war, a Union squad closed in on a single ragged Confederate. He didn't own any slaves and he obviously didn't have much interest in the Constitution or anything else. And they asked him what are you fighting for? He said, 'I'm fighting because you're down here." The best evidence gathered and studied by some of the most renowned historians of the day bear out the contention that defense of slavery was not what the War was all about to the Southern yeomanry who actually fought it. That evidence can be found in the letters and diaries of the soldiers themselves. The book For Cause and Comrade: Why Men Fought in the Civil War by James M. McPherson is based on the reading of some 25,000 letters and 249 diaries written by Union and Confederate soldiers. McPherson found no opposition to slavery in the Southerners' writings and only 20 percent of them even mentioned slavery at all. To extrapolate even further only 12 percent of the men from non-slave-owning families did. McPherson found Southern hatred of Northerners was a far stronger motivation to fight. Many young Southerners viewed the Yankees in the same manner that most of their ancestors viewed the British of 1776 and 1812. They just wanted to be left alone. They wanted to be their own nation with their own idea of liberty and justice. They considered themselves patriots for fighting back, slavery or no slavery. Toward the end of the war the the Confederate government considered emancipation in order to draft black soldiers. Many soldiers expressed the view in letters and diaries that they preferred a slave free Confederacy than re-joining the Union with slavery intact. In his book The Confederate War by Gary W. Gallagher, he reminds the reader that General Robert E. Lee urged Jefferson Davis to consider emancipation early in the War to no avail. The Confederate Constitution legitimized slavery and so did Southern public opinion. Gallagher also studied this subject through letters, diaries and the newspapers of the day. He concluded that while the Confederacy was truly a nation united in purpose and sense of identity the reason for that was not the elected government and political institutions as much as it was the public perception of Lee and his soldiers. They were "the critical agents that engendered unity and hope and the preeminent symbols of the Confederate struggle for independence and liberty." That brings up another reason unrelated to slavery as to why Southerners went into battle. Many young men of that time and place had a very gallant idea of war. The classic book The Life of Johnny Reb: The Common Soldier of the Confederacy by Bell I. Wiley begins with: "The man who was to be Johnny Reb was rarin' for a fight in the spring of 1861." Wiley pioneered the use of letters and diaries in studying its subjects and was first published in 1943. Another factor was State loyalty. Many of the Confederacy's greatest champions like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson for instance were not in favor of secession and only followed the South out of loyalty to their home state of Virginia. Modern day students of the era often forget that in the 19th Century most individuals felt greater loyalty to their home or adopted states than to the government and nation at large. During that era one was a Virginian, Pennsylvanian or a Kentuckian first and an American second. Other factors for Southern men to go to war include: peer pressure, boredom, and indoctrination. These same reasons have motivated many and perhaps most soldiers all throughout human history. Most soldiers on either side probably also went to war for at least one of these three reasons. Entire communities were emptied of their young men and those who stayed behind were liable to be mocked by their female contemporaries. Since many soldiers were poor farmers, boredom and the simple longing for adventure may have inspired many of them. In the 19th century the lack of transportation options caused most people to never travel more than fifty miles away from their homes. Other men would have been roused to righteous indignation by the rhetoric that was used to inflame the populaces on both the sides. In closing, Confederate symbols reflect Southern heritage and serve to honor the brave soldiers that fought for what they believed was right. Regrettably, I must admit slavery was a component but human bondage was also an accepted practice in the United States until 1865 when the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution was ratified. It is estimated that around 100,000 people were not freed until the Amendment went into effect on December 18. To assume that both of these countries' symbols represent hate and racism because of this is an illogical conclusion. It is important to keep in mind an analogy of symbols that represent the United States of America (which I also proudly honor and respect). Monuments, flags and even the names of men that served this great nation are rarely vilified but American history can be questioned as well. Remember, besides slavery this nation violently uprooted and in many cases mass murdered Native American men, women and children. It also imprisoned thousands of Japanese American men, women and children in internment camps during World War II. And it also was a country that considered all women unworthy of voting or owning property. These examples were not products of some minority extremist movement but widely sponsored by actions of our federal government. So, while American symbols at different times in our history represented a country that permitted human bondage, performed genocide, unlawfully imprisoned thousands and sanctioned sexist policies, nobody ever suggests that we should hate them like some do with Confederate symbols. Instead they are passionately embraced by most citizens as symbols of American culture and heritage in the same way that Confederate symbols should be allowed to be embraced as symbols of Southern culture and heritage and not just slavery. 
Symbol of Southern Culture, Heritage and Sovereignty
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#1. To: Gatlin (#0)
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." - George Orwell, 1984
Bullshit. The Confederate flag with the X was introduced in the late 50s and early 60s as a symbol of racial seggregation of the south against the Federal govt. That flag was not officially in any state capital before Brown Vs Board of Ed.
Try and learn something, moron. "The Confederacy saw the use of three different national Civil War flags during its brief time as the official government of the South. The first Confederate flag, the "Stars and Bars" (top right), was designed by Prussian artist Nicola Marschall. This design was chosen over a different design submitted by William Porcher Miles, chair of the Confederate Committee on the Flag and Seal. The "Stars and Bars" flag design was based on the Austrian national flag. This flag initially had just seven stars, but as more states seceded, stars were added. Eventually, the "Stars and Bars" flag ended up with 13 stars, with two of them representing the border states of Missouri and Kentucky. In May 1863, it was decided that the "Stars and Bars" should be replaced; because, the flag could easily be confused with the Union flag at a distance. The new design was called the "Stainless Banner," and called for a pure white flag with a Confederate battle flag emblazoned in the top left corner. The "Stainless Banner" soon fell out of favor as well; because, some considered it to be "too white," and it could sometimes be mistaken for a white flag of truce. Therefore, the third Confederate national Civil War flag was introduced on March 4, 1865. The new flag was called the "Bloodstained Banner (above)." It was the same as the "Stainless Banner," except a vertical red bar was added to the end of the flag. This flag was only in use for a few weeks before the Confederate surrender and the end of the Civil War." What you ignorantly claim is the "Confederate Flag" that was introduce corca 1950s is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, the familiar "Southern Cross". It was carried by Confederate troops in the field which were the vast majority of forces under the confederacy.....that's right, moron, almost 100 years prior to 1950s). The Stars represented the 11 states actually in the Confederacy plus Kentucky and Missouri. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
One more time - and I am not talking about the invention of the flag - the use of the Confederate battle flag on Southern capitals and incorporated into the new flags of some southern states was only done in the late 1950's and early 1960's as a defiant gesture against integration and civil rights efforts. Your post above on the history of the flag was a waste of bandwidth because the confederate flag we are talking about was soiled by these Dixie-crat segregationists who used that flag to use as a symbol of Jim Crow support. Before Brown Vs Board of Ed school desegregation case the Confederate Battle Flag was not OFFICIALLY (emphasis on officially) used by any Southern State on their grounds nor was the design incorporated into their flags. It's like "In God We Trust" - people assume that was on our money since George Washington but it was added in the 1950s as a reaction to communism and same thing with the "under God" line in the Pledge of Allegiance - it was not part of the original until the Cold War 50s reaction to communism. All of you here are acting like the Confederate flag was flying over the southern state capitals since the Civil War and that is NOT the case. They are recent additions.
Oh, you mean like adding the words Under God to the Pledge of Alligance in 1954? A soiling of the symbolism of the American Flag? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
FYI. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Exactly like that - Communists started pointing out that the patriotic Pledge of Allegiance was written and advocated for by a Communist/Socialist and this freaked out the easily freaked out American politicians and they added "under God". You could not have the anti-commie politicians declare commies as anti-American when the Patriotic Pledge Of Allegiance itself was socialist in origins complete with a socialist like hand gesture salute.
You are indeed a good comrade, Comrade. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Which proves modern Republicans are the old segregationist Democrats in the South because it is mostly REPUBLICANS (though not as many as before) advocating for the Confederate flag. The Republicans are the sworn enemies of the Confederates. The party made its bones destroying the Confederates and its symbols. All these Southern Republicans are really the offspring of the old Dixie-crat Democrat segregationists angry at Johnson's Civil Rights legislation that Nixon invited into the Republican party as part of his Southern Strategy.
You mean like Robert Byrd? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
More like former Dixiecrat and later Republican Senator Strom Thurmond who in 1948, Thurmond stated: "all the laws of Washington and all the bayonets of the Army cannot force the Negro into our homes, into our schools, our churches and our places of recreation and amusement."
"Observing the standoff between Faubus and the federal judiciary, King sent a telegram to President Eisenhower urging him to “take a strong forthright stand in the Little Rock situation.” King told the president that if the federal government did not take a stand against the injustice it would “set the process of integration back fifty years. This is a great opportunity for you and the federal government to back up the longings and aspirations of millions of peoples of good will and make law and order a reality” (King, 9 September 1957). Aware that the Little Rock incident was becoming an international embarrassment, Eisenhower reluctantly ordered troops from the Army’s 101st Airborne Division to protect the students, who were shielded by federal troops and the Arkansas National Guard for the remainder of the school year. In a 25 September telegram, King praised the president’s actions: “I wish to express my sincere support for the stand you have taken to restore law and order in Little Rock, Arkansas. . . .You should know that the overwhelming majority of southerners, Negro and white, stand firmly behind your resolute action” (Papers 4:278)." You seem to like to cherry pick your facts. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
You mean like Robert Byrd? More like former Dixiecrat and later Republican Senator Strom Thurmond Why are you ignoring Byrd, the former Kleagle of the KKK? He stayed with the Democratic Party. A serious question for you, do you believe that many white southerners today support segregation? In your opinion are they the majority? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Byrd was a typical in that he remained in the Democrat party - most of Byrd's contemporary racialist politicians in the Democrat party became Republicans like Thurmond. That is why the South, which hated Republicans and where Blacks were the only Republicans became a GOP stronghold. You think the South became Republican because they liked Nixon? Serious question to you - have you never questioned why the Party of Lincoln suddenly became the party of the South? The GOP was always called the black man's party until the Civil Rights act and the Nixon Southern Strategy. Because Nixon saw it as a chance to steal away the South from the Democrats because of angry white voters he changed the GOP and this caused Blacks to no longer be Republicans because the Dixiecrats took over the South but as Republicans this time.
No, I have not never questioned why? I formed my fisrt understanding of why in the early-mid 60s. And no, it wasn't because the loved Nixon over Kennedy. And no, roghtly or wrongly, it wasn't as much an issue of maintaining segreation as an issue of ststaes rights (read not being bullied by Big Brother). You answered my question with a question. Now I answered yours, so please answer mine. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
The state's right to do what? Seggregate. Also, this has to be taken into the context of the Cold War with the USSR. The USA could not declare it was the leader of the free world and have Jim Crow in the South with the USSR pointing that out. That is why the US military dessegregated also.
You're trying to tell me that the CSA did not fly the confederate flag! Wow, perfect illustration of my quotation from George Orwell: Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. Odd is that older books, pre WW2, show the confederate flag, something you claim to have been created 100 years after the Civil War. You're going to need a bigger memory hole if you want to peddle such big lies.
No. That is clearly NOT what I wrote. This confederate flag - the so called Army of Norther Virginia Battle Flag - was not in any Southern state house or flag until around the late 1950's and early 1960's.
This is the second time you answered my question with a question. Now go f*ck yourself, Commie turd. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
It is hard to maintain patience with an ignoramus. I gave up with him too.
I believe most often the flag mistaken for the Confederate flag is the rather ubiquitous Confederate Naval Jack. It is rectangular, like most flags, while the battle flag is square.
Your claim is historically inaccurate. You are off by a decade. The States Rights Democratic Party, better known as the Dixiecrats, an offshoot of the Democratic Party, (unofficially) used the Confederate flag in the 1940's and won 4 states in the 1948 presidential election. The split was over civil rights actions by the Harry Truman administration. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/print.php?pid=25851 Platform of the States Rights Democratic Party August 14, 1948 Unanimously Adopted at Oklahoma City, August 14, 1948 - 1 - We believe that the Constitution of the United States is the greatest charter of human liberty ever conceived by the mind of man. - 2 - We oppose all efforts to invade or destroy the rights guaranteed by it to every citizen of this republic. - 3 - We stand for social and economic justice, which, we believe can be guaranteed to all citizens only by a strict adherence to our Constitution and the avoidance of any invasion or destruction of the constitutional rights of the states and individuals. We oppose the totalitarian, centralized bureaucratic government and the police nation called for by the platforms adopted by the Democratic and Republican Conventions. - 4 - We stand for the segregation of the races and the racial integrity of each race; the constitutional right to choose one's associates; to accept private employment without governmental interference, and to earn one's living in any lawful way. We oppose the elimination of segregation, the repeal of miscegenation statutes, the control of private employment by Federal bureaucrats called for by the misnamed civil rights program. We favor home-rule, local self-government and a minimum interference with individual rights. - 5 - We oppose and condemn the action of the Democratic Convention in sponsoring a civil rights program calling for the elimination of segregation, social equality by Federal fiat, regulations of private employment practices, voting, and local law enforcement. - 6 - We affirm that the effective enforcement of such a program would be utterly destructive of the social, economic and political life of the Southern people, and of other localities in which there may be differences in race, creed or national origin in appreciable numbers. - 7 - We stand for the check and balances provided by the three departments of our government. We oppose the usurpation of legislative functions by the executive and judicial departments. We unreservedly condemn the effort to establish in the United States a police nation that would destroy the last vestige of liberty enjoyed by a citizen. - 8 - We demand that there be returned to the people to whom of right they belong, those powers needed for the preservation of human rights and the discharge of our responsibility as democrats for human welfare. We oppose a denial of those by political parties, a barter or sale of those rights by a political convention, as well as any invasion or violation of those rights by the Federal Government. We call upon all Democrats and upon all other loyal Americans who are opposed to totalitarianism at home and abroad to unite with us in ignominiously defeating Harry S. Truman, Thomas E. Dewey and every other candidate for public office who would establish a Police Nation in the United States of America. - 9 - We, therefore, urge that this Convention endorse the candidacies of J. Strom Thurmond and Fielding H. Wright for the President and Vice-president, respectively, of the United States of America.
Here is your original error. See post #2 And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
#2. To: nativist nationalist, Gatlin (#1)
Confederate Symbols, Heritage Not Hate
#3. To: Pericles, nativist nationalist, Gatlin (#2)
Bullshit. The Confederate flag with the X was introduced in the late 50s and early 60s as a symbol of racial seggregation of the south against the Federal govt.
#4. To: SOSO (#3)
(Edited)
What you ignorantly claim is the "Confederate Flag" that was introduce corca 1950s is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, the familiar "Southern Cross".
#5. To: Pericles (#4)
One more time - and I am not talking about the invention of the flag - the use of the flags on Southern capitals and incorporated into the new flags of some southern states was only done in the late 1950's and early 1960's as a defiant gesture against integration and civil rights efforts.
#6. To: Pericles (#4)
#7. To: SOSO (#5)
(Edited)
Oh, you mean like adding the words Under God to the Pledge of Alligance in 1954? A soiling of the symbolism of the American Flag?
#8. To: Pericles (#7)
You could not have the anti-commie politicians declare commies as anti-American when the Patriotic Pledge Of Allegiance itself was socialist in origins complete with a socialist like hand gesture salute.
#9. To: SOSO (#6)
#10. To: Pericles (#9)
All these Southern Republicans are really the offspring of the old Dixie-crat Democrat segregationists angry at Johnson's Civil Rights legislation that Nixon invited into the Republican party as part of his Southern Strategy.
#11. To: SOSO (#10)
(Edited)
You mean like Robert Byrd?
#12. To: Pericles (#9)
All these Southern Republicans are really the offspring of the old Dixie-crat Democrat segregationists angry at Johnson's Civil Rights legislation that Nixon invited into the Republican party as part of his Southern Strategy.
#13. To: Pericles (#11)
#14. To: SOSO (#13)
(Edited)
You mean like Robert Byrd? More like former Dixiecrat and later Republican Senator Strom Thurmond
#15. To: Pericles (#14)
Serious question to you - have you never questioned why the Party of Lincoln suddenly became the party of the South?
#16. To: SOSO (#15)
(Edited)
And no, roghtly or wrongly, it wasn't as much an issue of maintaining segreation as an issue of ststaes rights (read not being bullied by Big Brother
#17. To: Pericles (#2)
The Confederate flag with the X was introduced in the late 50s and early 60s as a symbol of racial seggregation of the south against the Federal govt.
#18. To: nativist nationalist (#17)
(Edited)
ou're trying to tell me that the CSA did not fly the confederate flag!
#19. To: Pericles (#16)
The state's right to do what?
#20. To: SOSO (#19)
Now go f*ck yourself, Commie turd.
#21. To: SOSO, Pericles, nativist nationalist, Gatlin (#3)
What you ignorantly claim is the "Confederate Flag" that was introduce corca 1950s is actually the Confederate Battle Flag, the familiar "Southern Cross".
#22. To: Pericles, nativist nationalist, Gatlin (#2)
The Confederate flag with the X was introduced in the late 50s and early 60s as a symbol of racial seggregation of the south against the Federal govt.
#23. To: Pericles (#2)
Post #2 Bullshit. The Confederate flag with the X was introduced in the late 50s and early 60s as a symbol of racial seggregation of the south against the Federal govt. That flag was not officially in any state capital before Brown Vs Board of Ed.
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