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Title: 'Unrepentant Nazi Murderer' Dies a Free Man at 93
Source: Newser
URL Source: http://www.newser.com/story/204760/ ... rer-dies-a-free-man-at-93.html
Published: Mar 31, 2015
Author: Rob Quinn
Post Date: 2015-03-31 07:58:56 by GeorgiaConservative
Keywords: germany, sorenkam, wwii
Views: 1679
Comments: 21

In what Denmark's chief Nazi hunter calls a "terrible failure of the Bavarian judicial authorities," the country's most-wanted Nazi has died a free man at the age of 93. Soren Kam, one of the highest-profile Danish Nazis during World War II, was wanted in his homeland for the 1943 kidnap and murder of anti-Nazi newspaper editor Carl Henrik Clemmensen, the Copenhagen Post reports. He fled to Germany after the war and the country refused to extradite him back to Denmark after he was granted citizenship in 1956. Kam—who died on March 23, around two weeks after his wife, according to a death notice—also fought on the Eastern Front with the Waffen SS and was granted the Knight's Cross medal by Adolf Hitler in 1945.

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#1. To: GeorgiaConservative (#0)

It's been over 50 years. If we were attentive to our duties, the Jubilee would have released the liability to men for this crime. He is now in the hands of God, who judges men by their deeds.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   8:02:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: GeorgiaConservative (#0)

Waiting 70 years to bring "justice" to geriatric Nazis is daft.

These cases are little more than an exercise in smug self-righteousness.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-31   8:12:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

It's been over 50 years.

Over 70. Math still matters...

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-31   8:13:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: GeorgiaConservative (#0)

He may have died a "free" man but now he faces the ultimate justice, and it ain't gonna be pretty!

patriot wes  posted on  2015-03-31   8:16:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: TooConservative (#3) (Edited)

Over 70. Math still matters...

The 50 is the key, because 50 years is the Jubilee, when the horn is sounded and all are freed of their obligations, pardoned, slaves released, etc.

The Jubilee is not optional.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   8:18:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Vicomte13 (#5)

The 50 is the key, because 50 years is the Jubilee, when the horn is sounded and all are freed of their obligations, pardoned, slaves released, etc.

The Jubilee is not optional.

None those involved in the prosecution or the alleged perp were Jews.

I know you love your pet theories about a continuation of the Old Covenant but it doesn't hold any water. Not that this is a thread to debate it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-31   8:21:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TooConservative (#2) (Edited)

The article is a little off - the extradite plenty of Nazis so I don't get what the hold up here was over the history of the case. The source is something called "newser" so I am sceptical of the reported facts in the article.

One of the down sides of the rise of internet news media is a lot of it is BS or sloppy.

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-31   8:42:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: TooConservative (#6)

Your Opinion: "Waiting 70 years to bring "justice" to geriatric Nazis is daft. These cases are little more than an exercise in smug self-righteousness."

My opinion: 50 years is, by divine example, the proper statute of limitations on everything.

Your opinion: know you love your pet theories about a continuation of the Old Covenant but it doesn't hold any water. Not that this is a thread to debate it.

My opinion: In other words - you can state your opinion, but I am not supposed to state mine. Got it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   8:45:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Vicomte13 (#8)

My opinion: In other words - you can state your opinion, but I am not supposed to state mine. Got it.

Sounds good.

The Jubilee year is the year at the end of seven cycles of shmita (Sabbatical years), and according to Biblical regulations had a special impact on the ownership and management of land in the Land of Israel; there is some debate whether it was the 49th year (the last year of seven sabbatical cycles, referred to as the Sabbath's Sabbath), or whether it was the following (50th) year. Jubilee deals largely with land, property, and property rights. According to Leviticus, slaves and prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven and the mercies of God would be particularly manifest. Leviticus 25:8-13 states:

"And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed. For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field. In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession."

The biblical rules concerning Sabbatical years (shmita) are still observed by many religious Jews in the State of Israel, but the regulations for the Jubilee year have not been observed for many centuries. According to the Torah observance of Jubilee only applies when the Jewish people live in the land of Israel according to their tribes. Thus, with the exile of the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and Menashe (about 600 BCE) Jubilee has not been applicable.

I think the Jubilee had to be every 49th year. Not 50th. 50 makes no sense.

In addition, Jubilee does not apply to non-Jews and never was applied outside the historical kingdoms of Israel.

I see no mentions that capital crimes (murder) were granted any statute of limitations, something I would think would register with you as you post constantly about the unique status of murder as the gravest sin.

Also, I'll point out that half of all slaves would serve 25 years or more under such a system. And many, if not most, would die in slavery, given the short life expectancy of the era. I'm not sure why you, of all people, would find that admirable in any way.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-31   10:11:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: TooConservative (#9)

I think the Jubilee had to be every 49th year. Not 50th. 50 makes no sense.

The Jubilee was in the 50th year. The 49th year was the 7th year in a cycle of 7 years, a Sabbatical year. The next year, the 50th, was the Jubilee. In the Jubilee, there were TWO straight sabbatical years, TWO years of no planting and harvesting.

But, as you pointed out, this is not germane - in your opinion - to this topic, so I will no longer discuss it on this thread.

I think that, given the obsessive pursuit of old Nazis (but not, say, old Communists), that the Jewish element is front and center in the subject, and that holding Jews - who want to hound all Nazis unto death - to the Jubilee forgiveness is directly on point.

But you obviously didn't see that, so I'm going to let it be and go talk about something else.

If you want to yell at me about Affirmative Action, there's a thread in which it's being discussed.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   10:52:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: TooConservative (#9)

Also, I'll point out that half of all slaves would serve 25 years or more under such a system. And many, if not most, would die in slavery, given the short life expectancy of the era. I'm not sure why you, of all people, would find that admirable in any way.

Because Hebrews could not be kept as slave. So the only slaves there were, legally, were foreigners bought for money or prisoner's of war.

And any one of them could, of his own volition, convert to the worship of the One True God, YHWH, at any time. The slaveowner was not the master of the slave's conscience and had no power to prevent a conversion. By conversion, the slave was freed from slavery: Hebrews could not be slaves.

So, under the law, the only slaves in Israel were new arrivals who had not had a chance to hear the word of the Lord yet. But once those who had, heard it, they could convert. If they CHOSE not to follow the Lord even when they had the chance, if they CHOSE, instead, to remain loyal to Satan and to idols, then they were already slaves of the spirit, and should not be generally freed into Israelite society, where they might cause damage to the faith and morals.

Convert and be free. Stubbornly remain allied with Satan, and remain in chains. It makes perfect sense to me. Freedom is an inducement, held out by God, so that the foreign slave and captive will hearken to God and hear the message, and thereby obtain freedom from bondage.

Stubbornly reject God, and remain in slavery - to Satan and to your human master, for your own good and the good of the whole people.

However, God is merciful, and even the stubborn idolator has the hope of freedom, as a pure gift from God, in the Jubilee.

The Jubilee also served to release Israelites from debts to each other, and to the law - a wiping clean of the slate completely, so that all could start over. Even foreign slaves.

Of course I uphold such a system. I think it's divinely brilliant in its logic and wisdom, and incentives.

I think that men must be cut off, by law, from seeking revenge - or justice - for other men. There comes a point for the repose of mankind - that the justice must be left entirely to God. If you're holding a grudge past the Jubilee, and refusing to cease prosecution like a Javert, you lack faith in God's justice. AND you're breaking God's law yourself.

The Jubilee is desperately needed. Slick the records, relax the debts, free the prisoners and forgive transgressions. Just EXACTLY what we want Jesus to do for us, God demanded of the Israelites from each other. The Jubilee is a visible sign of what we call Christ's justification of sinners. Through the free gift of God, ALL are released in the Jubilee - and that means that you, man, may not continue to hold YOUR grudge and demand YOUR debt after the Jubilee, for justice is God's alone at that point.

It's a good system.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   11:01:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#11) (Edited)

And any one of them could, of his own volition, convert to the worship of the One True God, YHWH, at any time. The slaveowner was not the master of the slave's conscience and had no power to prevent a conversion. By conversion, the slave was freed from slavery: Hebrews could not be slaves.

Circumcision remained a solid barrier to conversion, even from slavery.

But, as you pointed out, this is not germane - in your opinion - to this topic, so I will no longer discuss it on this thread.

And yet, no one (including Jews) have thought it was germane for the last 2600 years. Just you.

Get back to me when the Knesset or Sanhedrin restores the Jubilee.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-31   11:20:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: TooConservative (#12)

Circumcision remained a solid barrier to conversion, even from slavery.

Slaves bought for money had to be circumcised.

As far as it being a barrier for the POW, it was a barrier to the extent that the POW slave did not wish to be circumcised.

Obviously a conversion is not real if you're not willing to be circumcised, so circumcision was a barrier for conquered enemies to pretend to convert.

It wasn't a barrier for bought slaves, though, because they had to be circumcised.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   11:26:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13 (#13)

At the risk of discussing something relevant, can you cite any application of the Jubilee laws in the last 2600 years?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-31   11:38:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: TooConservative (#12)

And yet, no one (including Jews) have thought it was germane for the last 2600 years. Just you.

Get back to me when the Knesset or Sanhedrin restores the Jubilee.

Well, we would not expect anybody but Jews or Christians to pay any attention to it, would we?

Jesus pronounced the final doom of Judaism under the Mosaic covenant, and sentenced the Temple to destruction, the fig tree to die, the city to burn, and the evil tenants to be cast out in favor of new ones.

God did not take that step lightly. Before the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests of Israel and Judah, the Prophets continually warned the Israelites to keep the Sabbaths, cease the idolatry. They were ignoring God's law then too, SO THEREFORE God destroyed them. He destroyed Israel for good, forever. Only Judah remained. He left them a remnant, and they came back.

They started well, rebuilding the Temple and keeping the law. But by the time of Malachi, God's messenger, they were disregarding the law again, lapsing into sin after sin. And God ceased to hector them by prophets after that.

Then came Alexander the Great and the loss of sovereignty, Seleucid oppression, the Maccabean revolt, the Roman invasion and Jesus.

With Jesus, the Jews looked God in the eyes. They judged him, and he judged them. He invoked the penalty clauses of Deuteronomy 28, which promised the destruction of Israel for non-obedience. The the Jewish Temple authorities killed him, he resurrected, ascended...and sent the Roman army to remove the Temple and destroy the Jewish rite for good. By wiping out the priests and destroying any ability to maintain the Aaronic line, God removed the ABILITY to keep the Mosaic Convenant. He PERMANENTLY effaced the Jews' religion in favor of his New Covenant.

So, we are not surprised that the Jews have been continually disobedient for the past 2600 years. 2600 years ago that got them destroyed the first time. 2500 years ago they got a second chance. 2300 years ago God sent them the last warning, through his angels or messenger, Melek ("Malachi" - Melek means angel). Then he ceased warning them. They continued to do as they please, ignoring the Jubilee and enforcing things God never said. Then Jesus came and doomed them, and then the Temple went down forever.

Since Jesus and the destruction of the Temple, there hasn't really been a covenantal Judaism left to obey or not. God destroyed the ability to practice the religion on his terms. What is left is no different than the high places erected by Jeroboam: a fake copy of a real religion, that God himself ended in favor of his new Convenant.

Now, as to Christians - are Christians under the Sinai Covenant? No. The Hebrews were promised a farm in Israel if they obeyed the laws of the Sinai Covenant. They didn't, so they lost everything, including the farm and the land claim to it. Jesus made it clear in his judgment of the evil tenants that their CLAIM was extinguished, and God made that overt by having the Romans so COMPLETELY destroy everything that now the Aaronic bloodline priesthood cannot be reconstituted.

Christians were never under that Covenant, and never had those promises.

But note well the words that Jesus read from the Scripture in Nazareth: “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

Look at the terms of what Jesus brought: Proclaim good news to the poor (and what did Jesus call for regarding debt? release debt, just as you want God to release you from your sins). Proclaim freedom for the prisoners - a Jubilee. To set the oppressed free - freedom for slaves and other oppressed, even oppressed by illness - a Jubilee. And of course: "The acceptable year of the Lord". And what year of the Lord was it in which debts were released, the poor succored (rights to the unharvested fields), prisoners and slaves released? The Jubilee - the acceptable year of the Lord.

What is it that evangelical Christians like you, especially, believe? That faith in Jesus forgives ALL sins, ALL debt of sin. That the captive spirit is set free and all is forgiven. THAT, my friend, is the Jubilee.

As to slavery? Christ taught that the slave is our brother, and said "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Try to sustain any sort of real slavery under those rules! You can't do it. You end up with only indentured servitude, with good treatment, such as YHWH demanded of Jews who had Jewish servants (they could not have Jewish slaves).

Your Jesus is a walking Jubilee of forgiveness, and his principles of forgiveness are not once every 50 years, but all the time. Jesus IS a permanent Jubilee, for sinners. Surely you see this.

So, why the disgust for the Jubilee? Is it the forgiveness of debts that really sticks in your craw? Most folks don't like that. Jews didn't. Of course, they got wiped out, so maybe we should pay attention to our Old Testament. Even though the laws for us are not the same, we can definitely see in there what God does to those who come to know him, but then disregard him.

And anyway, I thought I wasn't supposed to talk on this thread.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   12:30:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: TooConservative (#14)

At the risk of discussing something relevant, can you cite any application of the Jubilee laws in the last 2600 years?

7 year forgiveness in Bankruptcy.

And of course Jesus' whole ministry and promise.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   12:31:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Vicomte13 (#15)

Your Jesus is a walking Jubilee of forgiveness, and his principles of forgiveness are not once every 50 years, but all the time. Jesus IS a permanent Jubilee, for sinners. Surely you see this.

Jesus made the Jubilee irrelevant, just as He made the Old Covenant irrelevant.

The Good News of the Gospels was freedom from the Old Covenant and opening the New Covenant to Gentiles.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-31   12:50:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: TooConservative (#17)

The nature of the New Covenant is a Jubilee.

There is more than one "old covenant"

There was the convant with Noah and all living - that was not rendered irrelevant. There was the covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the parallel covenant with Hagar and Ishmael. Those were not rendered irrelevant.

And then there was the covenant with the Hebrews on Sinai. The terms of that covenant were: do this and you get a farm in Israel. Don't do it and you get expelled and hammered. They did it and got the farm, then stopped doing it and got expelled, were allowed to return, then stopped again and had their Temple and priesthood wiped out. Now they can't follow the terms even if they want to. It was rendered inoperable.

It's inoperable, but it's not irrelevant. Israel is the only nation God ever ruled directly. By seeing his laws, we come to know what God loves and what he hates, and how he judges things. We're not bound by the rites and laws, because we're not promised a farm in Israel. BUT the same God that expressed his opinion about right and wrong is God today. And we're still subject to him.

Jesus told us the way to avoid Gehenna and pass final judgment. The lion's share of what he said was the Law of YHWH given at Sinai. The same principles operate.

If one will not read and understand what God said to Moses and the people he chose to be his, then one will wander around making up things to be significant. JEsus said that not a letter nor a pen stroke of the Law would pass away until the world ended. We many not be subject to all of the provisions of the law, but we are still subject to the God who made that law, and who thinks that way. It's tomfoolery to pretend that what God ordained for his people, when it contains moral content, is IRRELEVANT.

It may not be MANDATORY, if you're aiming for a C-. If you want under understand your God and be more favored in the Kingdom, then learn how he thinks and try to do good as he described it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   20:35:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Vicomte13 (#18)

The nature of the New Covenant is a Jubilee.

No, Jubilees ceased 2600 years ago.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-31   21:18:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: TooConservative (#19)

They were disregarded starting 2600 years.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   21:40:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#3)

Math still matters...

Not to the smug self-righteous.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-31   21:55:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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