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Title: W.Va. Senate OKs bill to allow concealed carry without permit
Source:
The Charleston Gazette
URL Source: http://www.wvgazette.com/article/20150227/GZ01/150229285
Published: Mar 3, 2015
Author: Eric Eyre
Post Date: 2015-03-03 18:58:33 by Hondo68
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Keywords: inherent right, God given CCW, natural rights
Views: 28307
Comments: 113
Senators approved a bill Friday that could make West Virginia the sixth state to allow residents to carry a concealed firearm without a permit. After reading aloud from the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, senators voted 32-2 for a bill (SB347) that allows people 18 and older to tote concealed guns. “The bill eliminates the crime of carrying a concealed weapon in West Virginia,” said Sen. Charles Trump, R-Morgan. The legislation next goes to the House of Delegates. Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Vermont and Wyoming are the only states that allow residents to carry a hidden gun without a permit. West Virginia already allows open carry of a handgun without a permit. West Virginia law enforcement officials have expressed concern about the bill. They said the legislation could put officers more at risk. They also noted that the weapons-permit fees generate funds for sheriff’s departments across the state. Last year, the permits raised $3.4 million for the departments. However, senators who supported the bill kept coming back to the Second Amendment. “This is a United States constitutional right,” said Robert Karnes, R-Upshur. “The Second Amendment recognizes this inherent right.” Sens. Corey Palumbo, D-Kanawha, and Ron Miller, D-Greenbrier, voted against the bill. Sen. Mike Romano, D-Harrison, supported the concealed-carry permit repeal, but first offered what he called “common-sense” revisions that his colleagues ultimately rejected. Romano wanted to require that residents be at least 21 years old before they could carry a handgun without a permit. “To carry a .357 Magnum, we really should require them to be 21 years of age,” Romano said. But other senators said a 21-and-up age limit was “arbitrary.” “At the age of 18, we’re talking about parents of small children,” Karnes said. “And we’re going to say an 18-year-old who is able to enter into the contract of marriage, to have children, is not responsible enough to defend the family that he has?” Romano also wanted to require people to take a handgun safety course before they could carry a concealed weapon. Karnes argued that the training requirement was a “backdoor licensing scheme,” and senators voted down the amendment. Romano later voted for the bill that didn’t include any of his suggested changes. “I concluded long ago that the permitting process through the sheriff’s department is simply a hurdle for law-abiding citizens who carry a gun,” Romano said. “Criminals will carry a gun regardless of the process.”
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 92.
#41. To: hondo68, GrandIsland, tpaine, redleghunter (#0)
So what would you think of a mandatory one time class that would teach you how to carry and use a handgun responsibly? Especially the legal aspects of your actions if you have to use it. There are some people out there who have no clue whatsoever and would be more dangerous to innocents than to bad guys.
It has been MY experience that these people are afraid of guns,realize they know nothing about how to handle these dangerous instruments,and look up people like me who are more experienced with them for training and advise. Sadly,they usually don't listen to my advise about what to buy and carry because they always want to have what the cops and action star tv and movie guys carry. Had one woman in her late 50's who had never shot or even held a handgun before insist on buying a 1911A1 because that is what I was carrying,and there wasn't a thing in the world I could say to her to convince her that wasn't a "beginner's gun". Other than that they do listen about safe handling.
When I find someone who wants to learn to shoot and buy a handgun I tell them the first thing they need to do is learn to shoot with a .22 (especially women). Hopefully they know someone that has one they can use to learn with but if not then go to the local gun shops and find something that fits their hand really well, is comfortable. Once they have done that then some gun shops that have ranges will let you take that weapon for a "test ride" for a nominal fee. After they have learned how to shoot then repeat the gun shop process to find the weapon they want in the physical size and caliber they want. I've taught I don't know how many women to shoot and this seems to work the best. Most women are naturally afraid of weapons and if you take one out to shoot with a .38 or a 9MM they first time around you usually do nothing but reinforce to them "WHY" they are afraid of weapons, that's why I start with the .22. This way they "usually" find out that shooting is fun and or more willing to progress to the larger calibers, big enough for CCW.
I always carried a variety of handguns and calibers to these classes so they could see what fit their hand the best,felt the best,fit in their purses the best,and were the most comfortable for them to shoot. Frankly,I always started out with a 30's S&W 22 caliber Kit Gun. This later became known as the K-22 and was built on the full-sized 38 Special frame. With that weight,the adjustable sights,and the 6 inch barrel,recoil and noise was never a problem for any of them with the 22. Then I went up to a PPK or Beretta .380,a P-35 Browning in 9mm,a Khar-9 pocket pistol,38 Special,357 Magnum,44 Special,and my custom combat commander 45 acp that I built myself. Even though I ALWAYS insisted they understand that a double action revolver was safer for novices to carry or use for home defense,I thought they needed to see and understand the mechanical complications of auto-loaders. That way when I pointed out to them that revolvers didn't have safeties to remember to take off before firing,and that you could tell if one was loaded or not by glancing at it without having to leverage anything,it made sense to them. Or to most of them,anyway. The granny that ended up buying the full-sized 1911A1 wanted to learn to shoot and buy a guy that she could keep in her apron pocket while she was running her retail shop. She obviously needed something small and lightweight,so I tried to talk her into a hammerless 38 Special,or one with a hammer shroud so she could have the gun in her hand if someone made her suspiscious without having to take it out of her apron and pointing it at them,and if push came to shove,she could shoot it right through the apron pocket without having a jam from the slide grabbing the apron cloth when it went back. It didn't make a nickel's worth of difference to her. She still bought the 1911A1. About 2 years later she called me about 2 AM one morning and whispered to me that her husgand was working out of town,she was all alone in the house,and she thought somebody had broken into her house downstairs. She wanted to know how to load her 1911A1 because DESPITE my repeating over and over that a unloaded gun is nothing but an expensive club,she was afraid of leaving it loaded in her dresser drawer. I guess she thought it would open the drawer one night all by itself and go on a killing spree. Anyhow,I told her how to load it and then called her local police chief (a friend of mine and her husbands) and asked him to send somebody around to CAREFULLY check on her because she was scared and had a loaded gun. Maybe 15 yeas has passed since then,and AFAIK she still has that 1911A1 and still doesn't have a 38 revolver. You can lead a horse to water........
Some manufacturers now make .22 caliber versions of larger caliber weapons like 1911s, Sig Sauers and a few others. Or they make what they call a .22 adapter kit and you use the same frame for both/multiple calibers. Makes learning to shoot and practicing with multiple calibers seamless with less transition between the two cause they "feel" the same, which basically they are. And can also save you a bit of money to boot.
I may be wrong,but I think Colt was doing that back in the 30's. I know they were doing it in the 50's because I was using that to bypass my father's excuse to not buy me a surplus 1911A1 because "the ammunition is too expensive". Didn't work,but I was trying. Couldn't get him to buy me a match grade Springfield,either. IIRC,they were less than 15 bucks delivered at the time. With my love of bolt action rifles and historic military rifles,if he had bought one,I would still have it today. IMHO,the 03 versions of the Springfield were the best damn bolt rifles ever made for open sight shooting,and back then my eyes were plenty good for shooting it at pretty much any range it would carry. I still don't like scopes,but if I ever go back to shooting rifles I won't have any choice but to buy and use one.
Didn't you have to qualify at 500 yards when they were issuing them?
Just how old do you think I am? IIRC,we had to qualify at 500 meters with the junk M-14's issued to us in basic training in the 60's. It wasn't a real problem with those junkers,and it would have been a walk in the park with a O3 or Garand.
You knew what I meant. :) I would imagine somewhere right around 70, and still full of piss and vinegar.
There are no replies to Comment # 92. End Trace Mode for Comment # 92.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestSenators approved a bill Friday that could make West Virginia the sixth state to allow residents to carry a concealed firearm without a permit.
#52. To: CZ82 (#41)
There are some people out there who have no clue whatsoever and would be more dangerous to innocents than to bad guys.
#57. To: sneakypete (#52)
Sadly,they usually don't listen to my advise about what to buy and carry because they always want to have what the cops and action star tv and movie guys carry. Had one woman in her late 50's who had never shot or even held a handgun before insist on buying a 1911A1 because that is what I was carrying,and there wasn't a thing in the world I could say to her to convince her that wasn't a "beginner's gun".
#60. To: CZ82 (#57)
When I find someone who wants to learn to shoot and buy a handgun I tell them the first thing they need to do is learn to shoot with a .22 (especially women).
#69. To: sneakypete (#60)
#75. To: CZ82 (#69)
Some manufacturers now make .22 caliber versions of larger caliber weapons like 1911s, Sig Sauers and a few others. Or they make what they call a .22 adapter kit and you use the same frame for both/multiple calibers.
#78. To: sneakypete (#75)
IMHO,the 03 versions of the Springfield were the best damn bolt rifles ever made for open sight shooting,and back then my eyes were plenty good for shooting it at pretty much any range it would carry.
#85. To: CZ82 (#78)
Didn't you have to qualify at 500 yards when they were issuing them?
#92. To: sneakypete (#85)
Replies to Comment # 92.
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