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Title: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo
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Published: Feb 14, 2015
Author: nra
Post Date: 2015-02-14 13:46:27 by tpaine
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Views: 17288
Comments: 90
www.nraila.org BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo Friday, February 13, 2015 In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress. View Related Articles It isn’t even the third week of February, and the BATFE has already taken three major executive actions on gun control. First, it was a major change to what activities constitute regulated “manufacturing” of firearms. Next, BATFE reversed a less than year old position on firing a shouldered “pistol.” Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible. By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.” Now, however, BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories of projectiles: Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) will be considered to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge. Category II: All Other Caliber Projectiles Except as provided in Category I (.22 caliber rimfire), projectiles that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition will be presumed to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile is loaded into a cartridge for which the only handgun that is readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade is a single shot handgun. ATF nevertheless retains the discretion to deny any application for a “sporting purposes” exemption if substantial evidence exists that the ammunition is not primarily intended for such purposes. BATFE is accepting comments until March 16, 2015 on this indefensible attempt to disrupt ammunition for the most popular rifle in America. Check back early next week for a more in-depth analysis of this “framework” and details on how you can submit comments. How to comment – from the BATFE ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical to do so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on or before March 16, 2015. ATF will not acknowledge receipt of comments. Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method): ATF email: APAComments@atf.gov Fax: (202) 648-9741. Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs and Services, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070.
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#19. To: tpaine (#18)
I disagree. People that will support this idiotic idea of banning said ammo come from multiple agendas. A) Some are pure sheep. Convinced that the populace doesn't need to arm themselves for any reason. B) Some follow party lines and support anything anti gun. C) Some vision a future of socislism and total government control of money... and they fear an armed opposition. D) Some, do realize they will never defeat the 2nd amendment and have a future vision of controlling guns by controlling ammo (as you said) The sad fact is, there are more agendas against an armed populace than for. They tend to stick together. WE DON'T It's far from a mass, ammo controlling conspiracy. In fact, the politicians that will vote for this bill will do so because of A, B and C... more so than D. The best chance of beating your enemy... is knowing who they are.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Authoritarians use both as excuses, but their real reason is to ultimately control the sources of ammunition. Isn't that obvious? Well, you sure took a long way around to agree, so OK... And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism? You've helped me be quite aware of who my enemies are.. Thanks for your candour.
Ever shopped here before? https://www.wideners.com/
“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”
Ever shopped here before? https://www.wideners.com/ No. When I lived in NY, I'd travel 4 hours to a location in PA to buy all my reloading needs. They stocked all sizes of primers, all manufactures... and averaged 29.00 - 35.00 a thousand. I'd drive there, pay cash... and store it. They also had a huge supply of powder and projectiles. Now that I've moved from NY, I still get my reloading needs from the same place. Occasionally, I'll order from Midway.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Name me one (D) platform party ideal that I agree with or support.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism? I'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho.
Well I'm not a anarchist.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho. Well, the fact that you needed to tell me that makes me laugh.. :) Thanks.
I don't know. There must be some mistake because I am certain none of our elected or appointed officials would lie to us.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist?
Which is it???????? Both,plus a third reason that is the main reason. They want to establish that they have the power to do this. It's the "camels nose under the tent".
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
Failing to prepare is like preparing to fail.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
If you have 50,000 primers ready and available for reloading rounds of ammunition then you must have or possess already assembled loads. I am confident you are just a liar, though. You are BIG, FAT donut eating liar that slept through his cross-walk guard job at a local school while the world passed you by.
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist? -- Pridie.Nones Maybe he bought them for the milita group camped out in his mom's basement.
The poster is friggin' nut case.
Lighten up. Compared to his buddies here at LF, he's the voice of rationality.. :)
I reload, too. I have a Dillon Model 650 and reload a few hundred rounds for practice shooting every few months for various calibers. I reserve commercial rounds for serious shooting, however because they are costly BUT are fabricated upon excellent quality standards. I make mistakes from time to time in reloading ammunition for many reasons; maybe too few grains of powder; maybe I was offcenter of the press; maybe I was just being "creative" for the next shoot with too many grains or even over used expent shells which were too elastic in the first place. But 50,000 primers ready for reloading? The poster is a friggin' fruitcake.
Look, boxes of primers, and other reloading supplies, are an excellent store of value, if you have proper storage facilities. From your description of your reloading experiences, I think you'd be wise to give it up.
I do possess already assembled loads. Lots of them. What's your point?
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
We've had two shortages of primers over the last 10 years. The primer is the most essential part of your reloading components. Bullets can be cast Powder can be made Cases can be reused But primers can't be made. It our government can control primers, it would seriously effect our ability to stay armed. I'll never have that worry. Sounds like you will. lol Like I said. Failing to prepare is like Preparing to fail. I've passed a physc eval.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Not at all, to use an ol' cliché: "Practice makes perfect" and so I choose to make a few rounds based on serious studies for the ballistics; with my match grade .308 as an example, I can strike a target with both accuracy and precision at less than 1" @over 100 yards. In so doing, I make mistakes but the cost is inconsequential over a few hundred rounds because of personal time to learn and study. For some poor braggin' chap upon an insignificant website to claim he has 50,000 primers ready for reloading is quite an impressive and bold statement. His claim suggests that his mental agility is off-target in the real world of shooting. Perhaps his claim is more about reading some Mad magazine comick book.
For some poor braggin' chap upon an insignificant website to claim he has 50,000 primers ready for reloading --- This is the second time you've made a rather silly comment about 'primers ready for reloading'.. -- Just what do think has to be done to make primers ready for reloading, other than taking them out of their box, and placing them properly in any equipment you may be using?
I asked the poor, poster about being a test technician to ensure my primers are of high quality for re-loading. The poster has not seriously responded. All I wanted from the poster was: 2) use the primers in a tap dance show under his shoes. The cross guard worker declined.
I don't brag. I state fact. If you are a pro second amrndment thinker, and you don't know how to reload... you're a sheep. Relying on another to satisfy your ammo needs. If you are a reloader, and you don't horde supplies (especially primers)... you're a retarded sheep. I bought a box of 1,000 primers, a month (most months) starting in 2008. I decided 50,000 was adequate. The bulk of the 50,000 is divided up between small rifle, large rifle and large pistol primers. I do have a small supply of small pistol primers (just for shits and giggles) and a 1,000 large rifle bench rest primers. I also have over 5,000 hardcast .45 bullets and 2,000 hard cast .44 bullets Also... 15 years of my LE service, I carried a .40 S&W calibered weapon. As per policy, I was issued a box of 50 bullets, a month, for proficiency (if I requested them, and I did). I shot less than 10% of what I was issued. Do the math how many .40 cal loaded hardball rounds I have. 15 X 12 X 50.... lol Now... If I wanted to brag... I'd post a link that shows me shooting an 11"X11" steel plate at 201 yards, unscoped, off a bench... with my service weapon, about 3 weeks before I retired. It's on video... on YouTube. But I won't... unless you ask for the link.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
The cross guard worker declined. I declined because your questions were idiotic.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
GrandIsland, you are an absolute failure. You deserve the questions that I pummel towards you.
GrandIsland, you are an absolute failure. You deserve the questions that I pummel towards you. The beauty of this country... is everyone has the FREEDOM and LIBERTY to have and voice an opinion... you voiced yours. Thank you for your thoughts.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
With 50,000 primers in your possession, how many do you process in a week? What is the shelf life of ANY of your primers?
1) to test each and every primer within his upper and lower teeth before use, or; 2) use the primers in a tap dance show under his shoes If you really knew much about primers, you would realise that crushing them with your teeth, or maybe even tap dancing on them, would very likely NOT set them off. But please, do keep up your efforts to entertain, and to impress us all with your gun lore expertise..
I've loaded primers (that were given to me) that were well over 25 years old. All worked fine. I don't worry about shelf life... they are all stored in a cool, dark dry place. They will last as long as I'll need them too.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
You are correct. They are designed to ignite by a strike... not a slow crushing force. I have squashed them, seating them while not aligned properly without ignition. I doubt he was asking a serious question. It's why I refused to answer.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
What EXACTLY are your needs for 50,000 primers stored in a cool dark place?
I intend to. GrandIsland is a publick exhibit about total BS.
I've already told you why I amassed a huge supply of primers.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Sorry, but your efforts here to impress us, --- remind me of Yukon' s Alaskan chipmunk hunting heroics..
"Having" and "needs" are two different questions. I asked about your needs. Why in the world do you have so many primers?
What EXACTLY are your needs for 50,000 primers stored in a cool dark place? Your question sounds like something Andrew Cuomo would ask. That's why I moved from NYS... so I wouldn't have to deal with people like you that don't think I should have 50,000 primers. Cuck Fuomo
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
Your remarck is strangely reminiscinent of a POS chatter that moves the questions offered into obscure oblivion. You can tell the channel why you have 50,000 primers. I also want to know your personal reasons because shelf life means a lot in re-loading because of accuracy and precision characteristics; this means you know didly-squat with meaningless primers that shall not fire at all.
How do you rotate your inventory with so many primers on hand? I assume from 1985 you have a FIFO system and through time you have kept accurate track of which primers to use FIRST. Ho do you keep track of your inventory?
Don't be ridiculous. I've loaded and used primers over 30 years old. I've had zero issues with functionality or accuracy. You aren't a good enough pistol shooter to see a difference in accuracy from a 1 month old box of primers to a 15 year old box of primers... if there's a reduction in accuracy at all. I suggest you bench rest test old primers vs new primers. You might be presently surprised. I've even tested 20-30 year old IMR powders in 30.06, 25-06, 243, 308 and 260 Rem.
Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy
He bounced 12 gauge rubber slugs off of bears, and the squirrels somehow got trampled in the confusion.
Comments (60 - 90) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAuthoritarians use both as excuses, but their real reason is to ultimately control the sorces of ammunition. Isn't that obvious?
#20. To: GrandIsland, gatlin, misterwhite, Y'ALL II (#19)
I disagree. -- People that will support this idiotic idea of banning said ammo come from multiple agendas. ----- A) Some are pure sheep. Convinced that the populace doesn't need to arm themselves for any reason. --- B) Some follow party lines and support anything anti gun. --- C) Some vision a future of socislism and total government control of money... and they fear an armed opposition. --- D) Some, do realize they will never defeat the 2nd amendment and have a future vision of controlling guns by controlling ammo (as you said)
The sad fact is, there are more agendas against an armed populace than for. They tend to stick together. WE DON'T
It's far from a mass, ammo controlling conspiracy. In fact, the politicians that will vote for this bill will do so because of A, B and C... more so than D. --- The best chance of beating your enemy... is knowing who they are.
#21. To: GrandIsland (#1)
I've bought and stored over 50,000 primers of all sizes.
#22. To: CZ82 (#21)
#23. To: tpaine (#20)
And I really don't understand why you, gatlin, misterwhite, etc, disagree so much and so often.---- You all claim to be conservatives, so there's something very wrong. Dare I suggest you guys have a strange definition of conservatism?
#24. To: GrandIsland (#23)
Name me one (D) platform party ideal that I agree with or support.
#25. To: tpaine (#24)
I'd agree that you're not a democrat. -- But you and the rest are more authoritarian than conservative, imho.
#26. To: GrandIsland (#25)
Well I'm not a anarchist.
#27. To: Stoner (#2)
But, the Ovomit supporters have been telling us he was not going for more gun control. Whats up with that?
#28. To: GrandIsland (#25)
Well I'm not a anarchist.
#29. To: CZ82 (#16)
For instance true armor piercing ammo cannot be bought by the populace, why? Is this because they don't want some loony getting his hands on some and attacking the local police station or military base? Or is it because they don't want you to be able to defend yourself when the tyrants decide it's time to come get your ass?
#30. To: Pridie.Nones (#28)
What the HELL are you doing with 50,000 primers if you are not an anarchist?
#31. To: GrandIsland (#30)
#32. To: Pridie.Nones (#28)
GrandIsland (#25) --- : Well I'm not a anarchist.
#33. To: tpaine (#32)
#34. To: Pridie.Nones (#33)
#35. To: tpaine (#34)
#36. To: Pridie.Nones (#35)
50,000 primers ready for reloading?
#37. To: Pridie.Nones (#31)
you must have or possess already assembled loads.
#38. To: Pridie.Nones (#35)
But 50,000 primers ready for reloading? The poster is a friggin' fruitcake.
#39. To: tpaine (#36)
#40. To: Pridie.Nones (#39)
(Edited)
#41. To: tpaine (#40)
'primers ready for reloading'.. -- Just what do think has to be done to make primers ready for reloading, other than taking them out of their box?
1) to test each and every primer within his upper and lower teeth before use, or;
#42. To: Pridie.Nones (#39)
For some poor braggin' chap upon an insignificant website to claim he has 50,000 primers ready for reloading is quite an impressive and bold statement.
#43. To: Pridie.Nones (#41)
1) to test each and every primer within his upper and lower teeth before use, or; 2) use the primers in a tap dance show under his shoes.
#44. To: GrandIsland (#43)
I declined because your questions were idiotic.
#45. To: Pridie.Nones (#44)
#46. To: GrandIsland (#45)
#47. To: Pridie.Nones (#41)
All I wanted from the poster was:
#48. To: Pridie.Nones (#46)
To: GrandIsland With 50,000 primers in your possession, how many do you process in a week? What is the shelf life of ANY of your primers?
#49. To: tpaine (#47)
If you really knew much about primers, you would realise that crushing them with your teeth, or maybe even tap dancing on them, would very likely NOT set them off.
#50. To: GrandIsland (#48)
they are all stored in a cool, dark dry place. They will last as long as I'll need them too.
#51. To: tpaine (#47)
But please, do keep up your efforts to entertain, and to impress us all with your gun lore expertise..
#52. To: Pridie.Nones (#50)
What EXACTLY are your needs for 50,000 primers stored in a cool dark place?
#53. To: Pridie.Nones (#51)
#54. To: GrandIsland (#52)
#55. To: Pridie.Nones, tpaine (#50)
To: GrandIsland
#56. To: GrandIsland (#55)
#57. To: GrandIsland (#55)
#58. To: Pridie.Nones (#56)
shelf life means a lot in re-loading because of accuracy and precision characteristics; this means you know didly-squat with meaningless primers that shall not fire at all.
#59. To: tpaine, 12 gauge rubber slugs, bear foreplay (#53)
Yukon' s Alaskan chipmunk hunting heroics..
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
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