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The Water Cooler Title: Jesse's Dangerous Game Jesse's Dangerous Game A former Navy SEAL commander questions Ventura's claim that he hunted man in Vietnam. by Bill Salisbury POSTED MAY 8, 2001--- MINNEAPOLIS-- A few weeks before the revelation that ex-Navy SEAL Bob Kerrey was involved in the death of civilians during the Vietnam War, Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura had ignited a controversy of his own by boasting in a confrontational interview with a Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist that he had "hunted man" as a Navy SEAL in Vietnam. Resources: April 5, 2001 Mpls Star Tribune Transcript of "hunting man" interview April 5, 2001 Mpls Star Tribune Initial news story about interview April 7, 2001 Mpls Star Tribune Ventura apologizes to hunters December 2, 1999 San Diego Reader Jesse "The Great Pretender" Ventura December 21, 1999 Cursor.org Cursor researches Ventura's Navy SEAL quotes HomeOfHeroes.com Ribbon Awards of the U.S. Navy How to publicly post a DD 214 US Navy How to file a FOIA request with the U.S. Navy UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam, by T.L. Bosiljevac Navy SEAL Web site index Navy SEALs Vietnam memorial page Exposing fake Navy SEALs: Night Scribe Cyber Seals Wall of Shame Cursor home Initial press coverage focused on how Ventura's assertion that "until you hunted man, you haven't hunted yet," had riled many Minnesotans who hunt only non-human game. But more importantly, Ventura's claim invites a revisiting of long-standing questions about his military service, as it raises new ones about what the governor did, or didn't do, in Vietnam. In December, 1999, I wrote an article for the San Diego Reader titled, "Jesse (The Great Pretender) Ventura." The article challenged Ventura's claim that as James Janos he'd been a SEAL in Vietnam. I wrote that Janos had not been a SEAL but merely a member of Underwater Demolition Team (UDT) 12 who had been stationed in the Philippines and not Vietnam. The article relied on several interviews with real SEALS who had been in Nam and UDT men who had served with Janos. I also drew on my 16 years as a SEAL, that included a combat tour as officer-in-charge of SEAL Team 1, Detachment Golf, duty as executive officer of SEAL Team 2 during the war, and a stint as commanding officer of UDT 11 after the war. Before going to press I asked Ventura's spokesman, John Wodele, for the governor's comment. "We will have no comment on something so obviously false," said Wodele in an indignant, imperial tone. (In fairness to Wodele, I didn't tell him of my own SEAL and UDT credentials, but left him to assume I was just some West Coast "jackal" whining and snapping at his boss's heels.) Ventura continued to hide behind Wodele and his stone wall when I appeared on the Fox News Channel program "Hannity and Colmes" a few days after the Reader article appeared. When Fox asked Ventura to respond, Wodele wrote: "The only thing we have ever said is that the UDT and SEAL designation is interchangeable and we don't have any further comment." Why would Ventura - who loves to run his mouth about having been a SEAL - suddenly clam up when I publicly stated in so many words that he was, as my grandma used to say, full of more crap than a Christmas turkey? The governor could have silenced me and his growing pack of critics by simply producing his discharge certificate from active duty, called a DD 214. If he'd been one of America's roughest, toughest, meanest mothers, then that document would list Then there's your UDT buddy, Gary 'Bones' Bonnelli, who says you weren't in Nam with him, but that you were floating around the South China Sea, on a ship with the Amphibious Ready Group -- making ports of call in such high-threat areas as Hong Kong, Singapore, and Bangkok.the qualification for all the world to see. And if the SEAL/UDT designation were truly interchangeable, the form would reflect that. But I know it doesn't without even looking at it. The UDT designation, or Navy Enlisted Classification (NEC) - was 5321/22 and the SEAL designation was 5326. How do I know this? Because as the executive officer of SEAL Team 2, I recommended men for the 5326 designation after they had completed a six month probationary period. Many of these men came from UDTs as 5321/22s. As commanding officer of UDT 11, I awarded the 5321/22 designation to frogmen after their probationary period. Interchangeable designation my ass. If Jesse were a SEAL, his DD 214 would also list at least one "Presidential Unit Citation for service Nam." How do I know this? Because of my duty with both SEAL Teams during the war. Every SEAL who served with Teams 1 and 2 received at least one DD 214 (NOT Jesse's)of the five Presidential Unit Citations awarded those units. UDTs received none. So c'mon, Jesse, show us your DD 214. You can even do that without breaking your vow never to talk about what you did as a "SEAL" in Nam. But no fair relying on public pronouncements by your old toadies in the Teams, or a scrap of paper signed by some fawning Navy bureaucrat 30 years later, saying it's okay for you to call yourself a SEAL because UDTs were decommissioned in 1983. After all, you wouldn't want to be dismissed as a "Paper SEAL" would you? I mean it's okay for some pencil-necked sandcrab like George Plimpton to joke about being a "Paper Tiger" instead of a true major leaguer, but aren't you claiming to be the real deal: an ass-kicking, name-taking Navy SEAL? Of course if you're unwilling to share your DD 214, then your pet jackals in the Twin Cities might want to fire off a Freedom of Information Act request to the Navy. Or they could request a copy of the UDT 12 Command History for the years you were with that team (1971- 1974). They could read the "History" to see if you got any ink for combat exploits. Hell. if you truly saw combat with Team 12 - faced Charley or Clyde at a given time in a given place with the burnt smell of expended rounds in the air - that would be good enough for me. I wouldn't quibble over whether you were a Frog or a SEAL and you could lay this controversy to rest - give it a double tap, an ear shot. Another good resource is the Commander Naval Forces Vietnam monthly combat summaries that cover your time in the Western Pacific. Or the UDT 12 Cruise Book that chronicledCover of Jesse's UDT 12 Cruise Book your team's deployments. (SEALS didn't have time for such books.) You could even share your copy with them. One of your former commanding officers at UDT 12 shared his copy with me and said you'd never been in combat. Said he didn't remember you too well at all except as a guy who was good for morale because you had a great sense of humor. Your former CO was with me in Nam before he took over Team 12. He doesn't think the terms UDT and SEAL were interchangeable. Then there's your UDT buddy, Gary "Bones" Bonnelli, who was one of a very few UDT 12 frogmen stationed in Nam, at a place near the Nam Can Forest called Solid Anchor. Bonnelli says you weren't in Nam with him, but that you were floating around the South China Sea on a ship with the Amphibious Ready Group, making ports of call in such high-threat areas as Hong Kong, Singapore, and Bangkok. Continued at link with photos and more information Poster Comment: Someone sent me this URL and asked me to post it for them,so here it is. I vaguely remembered some of this information from the time when Ventura was running for Governor,but some of it is new to me.
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#9. To: sneakypete (#0)
Just for the heck of it, here is the current information from the USN NEOCS Manual. NEC 5320 - 5328 - Special Warfare Combatant Swimmers http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/nec/NECOSVolII/Pages/default.aspx Navy Personnel Command > Reference Library > NEOCS Manual > NEOCS Manual Vol II Volume II January 2015 http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/nec/NECOSVolII/Documents/Chap-4%20JAN%2015.pdf RATING SERIES AND SPECIAL SERIES NEC CODES [excerpt - column formatting not retained] 5320 - 5328 - Special Warfare Combatant Swimmers NOTES: 1. Assignment of NECs 5323 and 5326 are contingent upon successful completion of BUD/S training, Army Basic Parachute Training and six months duty with a Special Warfare Team. For SDV personnel, this six month requirement begins upon reporting to SDV school or to an SDV team, whichever is earlier. 2. Recommendations for assignment or cancellation of NEC 532X will be made solely by a Special Warfare Team Commanding Officer based on an evaluation of an individual's operational proficiency and professional performance. 3. SEAL and SDV mission information is contained in the appropriate naval warfare publications, or may be made available on a need-to-know basis from OPNA(N96)4. See NAVMILPERSMAN 1220-100 for details on screening and qualifications. 4. Candidates may enter BUD/S training with current rate but must laterally convert to a rating listed in MILPERSMAN 1220-100 within 12 months of assignment of NEC 5323 or 5326. 5320 - SO Candidate Demolishes underwater and land objects and obstacles by the use of explosives. Possesses basics of underwater search, surveillance, beach reconnaissance, unconventional warfare, and basic qualifications in the operational use of all types of SCUBA. Source Rating: 5323 - SDV Operator Conducts tactical SEAL Delivery Vehicle (SDV) Naval Special Warfare and unconventional warfare operations in the deployed operating environment. Operates and maintains Dry Deck Shelter (DDS). Deploys overland and fly away ancillary systems. Implements quality assurance procedures. Performs parachuting and the demolition of explosives as an essential portion of assigned duties and is qualified in the operational uses of all types of SCUBA. Source Rating: SO NOTE: Candidates may enter SDV Pilot/Navigator/DDS Operator training with current rate, but must laterally convert to a rating listed in MILPERSMAN 1220-100 within 12 months of assignment of NEC code 5323. 5326 - Special Warfare Operator (SEAL) Performs unconventional and special warfare operations in support of fleet, unified, and specified commanders. Collects hydrographic, terrain, and target intelligence in and from coastal, riverine, and other restricted water areas. Performs parachuting (static line and freefall) and demolition of explosives as an essential portion of assigned duties and is qualified in the operational use of all types of SCUBA. Source Rating: SO NOTES: 1. MILPERSMAN 1220-410 addresses Physical Screening Testing Standards and Procedures. 2. Rating designation is awarded upon completion of SO “A” School training pipeline as described in MILPERSMAN 1220-300. 3. Conversions will be conducted per MILPERSMAN 1220-300, 1440-010, and 1440-060. Approval to attend SO “A” School will be based on the needs of the SO community as determined by Bureau of Naval Personnel (BUPERS)-324.
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