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Title: That Our Children May Be Born
Source: First Things
URL Source: http://www.firstthings.com/web-excl ... yndrome-and-abortion-extortion
Published: Jan 30, 2015
Author: by Matthew Hennessey
Post Date: 2015-01-30 11:27:28 by redleghunter
Keywords: None
Views: 13652
Comments: 49

A bill before the Indiana state legislature has revived what is becoming a perennial debate: what information should be provided to pregnant women who receive a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome? The bill in question proposes to ban abortions due to either the sex of the fetus or a prenatal diagnosis of a genetic difference such as Down syndrome. The law would criminalize the actions of doctors who encourage and perform such abortions, not women who obtain them.

As the parent of a child with Down syndrome, I am watching the debate over this bill with fascination. As someone who believes the prenatal medical profession needs a good whack across the nose on this issue, I can see some value in the legislation. But as someone who lives very far from Indiana, I’m not inclined to get too worked up about it.

However, some of my fellow advocates in the “Down syndrome community” are worked up about it. In the past, I have criticized a vocal group of campaigners for the Lettercase booklet, an informational brochure intended for pregnant women who have received a Down syndrome diagnosis. The Lettercase booklet has caused controversy because it explicitly mentions the possibility of abortion. Many parents, siblings, and friends of people living with Down syndrome view mention of abortion in this context as a betrayal of the work we do together to demonstrate the value of such lives. That the booklet is supposedly meant to convince vulnerable women that life with Down syndrome is “not so bad” makes the abortion mention seem all the more out-of-place.

Click for Full Text!


Poster Comment:

The pro-information team wants pro-lifers like me to fully digest and make peace with the fact that abortion is legal. But I want them to realize that we are in the midst of a bitter battle for the rights of our children to be born at all. And while there are many fine doctors in the world, the medical professional organizations that refuse to sign off on informational pamphlets that don’t explicitly mention abortion don’t deserve our compliance. They deserve contempt.Matthew Hennessey (from above article)

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 15.

#1. To: GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13, Don, BobCeleste, SOSO, out damned spot (#0)

Ping

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-30   11:28:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: redleghunter, GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13, Don, BobCeleste, out damned spot (#1)

The bill in question proposes to ban abortions due to either the sex of the fetus or a prenatal diagnosis of a genetic difference such as Down syndrome.

Just one of 50 possible laws on what abortions may be legal and what are not, or, what life is OK to destroy and what is not. This is total folly. Either a fetus is a person or it isn't. Resolution demands Federal law on that question. SCOTUS re: RvW presently holds that a fetus is not a person and is not protected by the 14th Amendment which states in part:

SECTION. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

N.B. - the Consitution does not define the word person. All it says that any person that is born or naturalized in the United States is a citizen of the U.S. and the state in which that person is born. There is no language that says that person is only a person if born.

If personhood of a fetus beomes the law of the land then it would be up to the States to establish what might constitute due process in depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, or equal protection under the laws of the respective state. I suspect that those would be very interesting arguments indeed.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-30   11:58:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: SOSO, redleghunter, GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13, Don, BobCeleste, out damned spot (#2)

Just one of 50 possible laws on what abortions may be legal and what are not, or, what life is OK to destroy and what is not. This is total folly. Either a fetus is a person or it isn't. Resolution demands Federal law on that question.

SCOTUS re: RvW presently holds that a fetus is not a person and is not protected by the 14th Amendment which states in part:

From the Syllabus of Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973). Enacting state laws contrary to Roe are feel-good measures which pander to voters, but which are null and void and nearly certain to be struck down on appeal.

Supreme Court action could result in all abortions being legal, some abortions being legal, all abortions being unlawful, or abortions returned to being a matter of state jurisdiction.

Prohibition of all abortions will probably need to come from the political process, not the judicial process.

3. State criminal abortion laws, like those involved here, that except from criminality only a life-saving procedure on the mother's behalf without regard to the stage of her pregnancy and other interests involved violate the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which protects against state action the right to privacy, including a woman's qualified right to terminate her pregnancy. Though the State cannot override that right, it has legitimate interests in protecting both the pregnant woman's health and the potentiality of human life, each of which interests grows and reaches a "compelling" point at various stages of the woman's approach to term. Pp. 147-164.

(a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the abortion decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman's attending physician. Pp. 163, 164.

(b) For the stage subsequent to approximately the end of the first trimester, the State, in promoting its interest in the health of the mother, may, if it chooses, regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health. Pp. 163, 164.

(c) For the stage subsequent to viability the State, in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life, may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother. Pp. 163-164; 164-165.

Prior to the Civil War, federal jurisdiction was not imaginined to reach crimes against individuals in states. Murder, rape, etc., were the exclusive concern of the states. The only crime defined in the Constitution is treason, and only in the District of Columbia does the federal government exert exclusive jurisdiction. Until the mid-twentieth century, abortion was a matter of state jurisdiction.

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2045&context=faculty_scholarship

ANNALS, AAPSS, 543, January 1996

Federalizing Crime: Assessing the Impact on the Federal Courts

By SARA SUN BEALE
Duke University Scholar Repositary

Sara Sun Beale is professor of law at Duke University School of Law, where her teaching includes a course in federal criminal law. She earlier served in the Department of Justice's Office of Legal Counsel and the Office of the Solicitor General. She has also served as a reporter for the Federal Courts Study Committee and a federal-state working group studying federal criminal jurisdiction. Among her publications, she is the coauthor, with Norman Abrams, of Federal Criminal Law and Its Enforcement (2d ed., 1993).

[excerpt]

Federal jurisdiction before the Civil War

Until the Civil War, there were only a small number of federal offenses, and they generally dealt with injury to or interference with the federal government itself or its programs. The federal offenses of the time included treason, bribery of federal officials, perjury in federal court, theft of government property, and revenue fraud. Since the federal government was small and it conducted few programs, the list of actions classified as offenses for the protection of federal interests was correspondingly restricted.

Except in those areas where federal jurisdiction was exclusive – the District of Columbia and the federal territories – federal law did not reach crimes against individuals. Crimes against individuals – such as murder, rape, arson, robbery, and fraud – were the exclusive concern of the states. State law defined these offenses, which were prosecuted by state or local officials in the state courts.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-30   16:27:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: nolu chan, redleghunter, GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13, Don, BobCeleste, out damned spot (#9)

c) For the stage subsequent to viability.......

Exactly what is viability per RvW? How is it determined? Is it based on science or belief or just pragmatism?

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-30   16:51:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: SOSO, redleghunter, GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13, Don, BobCeleste, out damned spot (#11)

Exactly what is viability per RvW? How is it determined? Is it based on science or belief or just pragmatism?

I don't think it is clear.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-01-30   21:13:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: nolu chan, SOSO, redleghunter, GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13, Don, BobCeleste, out damned spot (#14) (Edited)

Exactly what is viability per RvW? How is it determined? Is it based on science or belief or just pragmatism?

I don't think it is clear.

There is more effort being exerted to perpetrate climate scandals and examine the inflation theory of footballs than to determine the scientific and moral classification of a fetus.

Damned be those who care more about defining the law than caring for what they destroy in the process!

TheFireBert  posted on  2015-01-30   21:28:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 15.

#21. To: TheFireBert, nolu chan, redleghunter, GarySpFc, liberator, Vicomte13, Don, BobCeleste, out damned spot (#15)

Damned be those who care more about defining the law than caring for what they destroy in the process!

I believe God will do just that but not SCOTUS.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-30 21:50:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: TheFireBert (#15)

Damned be those who care more about defining the law than caring for what they destroy in the process!

You may have just engraved the headstone for the USA.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-30 22:15:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 15.

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