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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: Tipping Point: 50% of Americans reject the D&R terrorist party
Source: Ben Swann
URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67rfMbw-3e0
Published: Nov 20, 2014
Author: Ben Swann
Post Date: 2014-11-20 12:18:37 by Hondo68
Keywords: 50 percent of Americans, REJECT, Republicans and Democrats
Views: 15183
Comments: 53


Poster Comment:

We're up to half of all Americans being, pro-Liberty & pro-American!

God bless America, and a pox on the Republican and Democrat tyrants.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: hondo68 (#0)

Unfortunaely, at this point in time 50% rejection means nothing. That number would have to be closer to 80% -- and THAT just isn't going to happen. The real problem have been the half of GOPe who've been co-opted, pimped, and compromised by the actual policy-makers -- The Shadow-Goob Syndicate of the New World Order.

The ENTIRE Dem Party is for all intensives purposes are an America-sabotaging neo-Marxist/Fascist Party.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   13:11:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: hondo68, A K A Stone (#0)

How many people right here on Liberty's Flame are disgusted by both parties and want an option?

How many of you are willing, right here, right now, to commit to helping set up a NEW party that is explicitly not the Democrats OR the Republicans.

I am. Who else?

I propose a name, too: The "Christian Commonwealth" party. The party's moral code is overtly Christian, with all that that means (things like no abortion, no gay marriage, an aversion to violence). Just having "Christian" in the name itself acts as a nice filter to keep quite a few subversives out because of the horror of formally, and publicly, labeling themselves as "Christians".

"Commonwealth" points to the economic principles of the party. This is not a free trade capitalism party. It's not a socialist party. It's a party that believes generally that the purpose of organized economics is to provide for everybody within the realm. The best practical way to do that is through personal economic liberty, but personal economic liberty can swiftly turn into self-centered greed which is neither Christian nor aimed at improving the over all common wealth. Christian Republicans believe in a regulated free market economy with a strong social safety net and a comprehensive fair taxation system to pay for it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   13:25:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Liberator (#1)

The ENTIRE Dem Party is for all intensives purposes are an America-sabotaging neo-Marxist/Fascist Party.

And the Republican Party is the party of aristocratic imperialism, which over time destroys the lives of everybody else, by relentlessly concentrating wealth at the very top, and by a willingness to use war to gain imperial control over foreign resources.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   13:27:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

And the Republican Party is the party of aristocratic imperialism, which over time destroys the lives of everybody else, by relentlessly concentrating wealth at the very top, and by a willingness to use war to gain imperial control over foreign resources.

That maybe the case in 50% of the Pubbies, but 100% of the Dems can be accused of exactly the SAME thing.

Why are you dismissing the fact that 100% of the Dems are actively plotting, planning, and executing the destruction of the USA (as we know it?)

Moreover, who do you think has prevented the USA from drowning in total Tyranny and Fascism? ANSWER: 50% of the Republicans. Or do you disagree with that assessment?

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   13:33:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

Christian Republicans believe in a regulated free market economy with a strong social safety net and a comprehensive fair taxation system to pay for it.

How "strong" a "safety net" do you propose? What criteria? What do you consider "fair tax"? Do you endorse Amnesty, and if you do, whose obligation is it to finance it?

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   13:36:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Liberator (#4)

Why are you dismissing the fact that 100% of the Dems are actively plotting, planning, and executing the destruction of the USA (as we know it?)

Moreover, who do you think has prevented the USA from drowning in total Tyranny and Fascism? ANSWER: 50% of the Republicans. Or do you disagree with that assessment?

I disagree with the assessment.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   13:37:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Liberator (#4)

Why are you dismissing the fact that 100% of the Dems are actively plotting, planning, and executing the destruction of the USA

For the same reason that I am not including Kim Jong Un in my analysis. Democrats are babykilling sodomites. Of course they're going to be evil. They have to be STOPPED.

But I also know that the Republicans are never going to stop them. There have been 41 election cycles since FDR won the Presidency for the first time. In many of them Republicans have won power. But in all 41 cycles, the Democrats have advanced their agenda and held onto their gains. This is because the Republicans don't really oppose it, they just pretend to.

So, what I see is that the Republican Party has managed to make itself a sort of "energy trap" for conservatives. The Democrats are bad, and the Republicans pretend to be the antidote to bad. Really they're the enablers of bad because they suck all of the oxygen out of the Right.

Also, there are plenty of Christians in the Democrat party who really don't like the babykilling or the sodomy, BUT they (correctly) see the Republicans as the party of the plutocrats, and vote for Democrats for the same reason you're voting for Republicans: "the lesser of two evils".

Neither party is the lesser of two evils. They're both evil. What is needed is a NEW party that actually represents people who are not babykilling sodomites, but who also understand the need for a strong social safety net and economic regulation. We need Christian democracy, not libertine socialism or plutocracy. And we can't GET Christian democracy as long as Christians are divided into two evil parties and neutralized by both.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   13:44:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#7)

But in all 41 cycles, the Democrats have advanced their agenda and held onto their gains. This is because the Republicans don't really oppose it, they just pretend to.

Did they hold onto their gains with say the Brady Bill for starters?

A K A Stone  posted on  2014-11-20   13:50:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Vicomte13 (#7)

Also, there are plenty of Christians in the Democrat party who really don't like the babykilling or the sodomy,

I think you are incorrect there.

By definition you can't be a christian and a democrat. Unless you repent of being a democrat.

A K A Stone  posted on  2014-11-20   13:51:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Vicomte13 (#6)

Ok, then in your opinion what or who have prevented the total tyranny and annihilation of the USCON until now?

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   13:54:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Vicomte13 (#7)

What I see is that the Republican Party has managed to make itself a sort of "energy trap" for conservatives. The Democrats are bad, and the Republicans pretend to be the antidote to bad. Really they're the enablers of bad because they suck all of the oxygen out of the Right.

The Dems are more than "bad"; They've pure, unadulterated Evil. 100%. And THIS is where you fail to see the main distinction between the two parties.

The GOP at time has pretended to be THE antidote to bad/evil, but at times they actually ARE and represent the anecdote. Again, they (the 50% of constitution-minded Republicans) are THE reason this Republic remains standing (barely.) It is the establishment GOP vampires who bleed the party platform dry. It is also this 50% who are beholden to Globalist interests and NOT to national interest.

Neither party is the lesser of two evils. They're both evil.

(R)s Cruz or Palin or Bachmann are NOT the political/moral equivalents as McConnell or McCain or Graham. Not remotely so. Unless you again believe that IS the case?

What is needed is a NEW party that actually represents people who are not babykilling sodomites, but who also understand the need for a strong social safety net and economic regulation. We need Christian democracy, not libertine socialism or plutocracy. And we can't GET Christian democracy as long as Christians are divided into two evil parties and neutralized by both.

A new party was needed over 20 years ago. Perot tried and was sabotaged by the NWO establishment that's hijacked 100% of one American Party abd 50% of the other.

Your dream Party is impossible to establish in contemporary USA. You've described more of a Christian Socialist Party, a heavy dose of Federalism (w/o the abortion aspect.)

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   14:08:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#7)

There have been 41 election cycles since FDR won the Presidency for the first time. In many of them Republicans have won power. But in all 41 cycles, the Democrats have advanced their agenda and held onto their gains. This is because the Republicans don't really oppose it, they just pretend to.

Since FDR's string of socialist victories, the GOP "leadership" has ALWAYS coincidentally been comprised of Rockefeller elites, RINOs, and Globalists. Reagan's victories were absolute anomalies, though the Senate and House leaderships remained firmly Rockefeller stooges.

The Dems have steadily advanced their subversive agenda across the board because....The entire Republican Party has been divided between the controlling Rockefeller globalist faction and the America First conservative faction. The Rockefeller faction sides with the Dems on major fiscal and social issues.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   14:15:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Liberator (#5)

How "strong" a "safety net" do you propose? What criteria? What do you consider "fair tax"? Do you endorse Amnesty, and if you do, whose obligation is it to finance it?

These are complicated things that would require a lot of ink to flesh out. And anyway, I suggesting we form a party, not that I should be the head of it. So I'll give you my view of your short questions in comparably short answers.

How strong? Very.

What criteria? Universal.

What is a "fair tax"? A tax which taxes each individual's total wealth at the same percentage as it taxes everybody else, and that is set at the level necessary to fund all levels of government with no deficit, and with a sufficient surplus to eventually pay off all government debt.

Regarding illegal aliens, the Border must be closed and guarded to stop the flow. Violent illegals need to be deported. Families of US citizens need to be regularized with green cards, but without a path to citizenship (no VOTE, ever). Employers who hire illegals need to be fined heavily, to remove all economic incentive for hiring them. Border patrols and welfare is financed by the regular government. Fines should be punitive and assist in defraying the costs.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   14:16:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#9)

Vic: " Also, there are plenty of Christians in the Democrat party who really don't like the babykilling or the sodomy,"

I think you are incorrect there.

By definition you can't be a christian and a democrat. Unless you repent of being a democrat.

Agree with you, Stone. Few Dems oppose abortion AND gay "marriage"

Vic, THE defining litmus tests of being a Dem these days is:

1) pro-Abortion

2) pro-gay issues

What else is there? (besides supporting socialist policies and growing the bureaucracy?)

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   14:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: A K A Stone (#8)

Did they hold onto their gains with say the Brady Bill for starters?

Is there more or less gun control in America in 2014 than under Reagan?

They have expanded their grip, and are crushing out gun rights.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   14:19:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#9)

By definition you can't be a christian and a democrat. Unless you repent of being a democrat.

Not by any real definition.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   14:20:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Liberator (#10)

Ok, then in your opinion what or who have prevented the total tyranny and annihilation of the USCON until now?

What would total tyranny and annihilation look like? North Korea?

What has prevented us from turning into North Korea is that nobody - Republican, Democrat, Socialist, Christian - nobody - wants to live in North Korea.

Democrats have pushed as far as they want to, and have largely gotten what they want, over time. As time goes on, what they want evolves, and then they push for it, and get it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   14:22:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Vicomte13 (#13)

What is a "fair tax"? A tax which taxes each individual's total wealth at the same percentage as it taxes everybody else, and that is set at the level necessary to fund all levels of government with no deficit, and with a sufficient surplus to eventually pay off all government debt.

If we were starting from scratch you might have a good case and concept. It sure does appear you're supporting a strong Christian-Socialist state with heavy regs...

Regarding illegal aliens, the Border must be closed and guarded to stop the flow. Violent illegals need to be deported. Families of US citizens need to be regularized with green cards, but without a path to citizenship (no VOTE, ever). Employers who hire illegals need to be fined heavily, to remove all economic incentive for hiring them. Border patrols and welfare is financed by the regular government. Fines should be punitive and assist in defraying the costs.

I am thrilled to finally agree with you, 100% :-)

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   14:24:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Liberator (#11)

Your dream Party is impossible to establish in contemporary USA.

Then sit back and enjoy the ride. If we form no new party, the Democrats will continue to rule America and it will continue to evolve, slowly and inexorably, in accordance with their will. Thus has it been since 1932. Thus ever shall it be, until people decide to do something different. As long as people vote for the plutocrats, they're going to get what we've got.

You've decided that the Republicans are the only hope. Which means that you've decided that the war is lost. I know that hope remains, if people are willing to do something different than they've done before.

I will acknowledge that my conversations about doing anything at all with the American Right on places like LF, FR and LP have caused me to conclude that there really IS no hope at all for the American conservative whites - they're aging, weak and timid. It reminds me of Constantinople in 1452.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   14:29:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Liberator (#12)

The Dems have steadily advanced their subversive agenda

It isn't subversive. It's out in the open. They want full blown secular socialism, and they are implementing it over time through their control of the political process. The Party of Plutocrats, the GOP, hasn't stopped them in large part because they don't WANT to stop them. The plutocrats only want to SLOW DOWN the Democrats, so that they can reposition themselves to get the contracts and enjoy the monetary gains from the Democrat policy.

That's why the Republicans never reverse anything. They resist, half-assedly, long enough for the plutocrats to get the contracts, then they cave and defend the new policy as an "unfortunate thing that can't be helped". The Democrats are out in the open. The plutocrats who really control the Republican Party are the ones with a subversive agenda. The rank-and-file middle class Right are the dupes in this all.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   14:32:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Vicomte13 (#17) (Edited)

What would total tyranny and annihilation look like? North Korea?

Good question (and answer.)

BUT, if everything is relative (and it is), the US will have gone from 0-60 MPH in a millisecond.

The Norkers have ALWAYS known total tyranny and annihilation, so their baseline of freedom plotted on a graph of tyranny just doesn't exist.

What has prevented us from turning into North Korea is that nobody - Republican, Democrat, Socialist, Christian - nobody - wants to live in North Korea.

Give it time. Then no one will have much of a choice in whatever eventual world the Elites set up for the serfs: ONE Party. ONE Government. ONE Religion. Etc. Our run as a representative Republic died in 1913. Buried with the advent of the UN. Since then, we've lived in a bubble, a mirage of "freedom."

Democrats have pushed as far as they want to, and have largely gotten what they want, over time. As time goes on, what they want evolves, and then they push for it, and get it.

Yes, they have gotten it aided and abetted by Rockefeller-Globalists (R)s whose goal was shared -- that's ALWAYS been to destroy the US's personal and national sovereignty.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   14:33:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Liberator (#14)

Vic, THE defining litmus tests of being a Dem these days is:

1) pro-Abortion

2) pro-gay issues

Those are the litmus test for Democrat LEADERSHIP, but lots of old whites vote for Democrats because the Democrats prevent the Republicans from gutting their Social Security, Medicare, unemployment benefits and other poverty relief measures.

Hispanics vote for Democrats because the Democrats are for a stronger social safety net, that the Hispanics need.

There are plenty of people who vote Democrat now who would vote for Christian Democrats if there were a party that promised to maintain and strengthen the social safety net, but to knock off the abortion and sodomy crap.

See, there are plenty of people on the Democrat side - whites and blacks and Hispanics, who feel trapped in just the same way that voters on the Republican side feel trapped. Republicans feel they have to vote for plutocrats because the Democrats are so evil. And the Christian Democracy folks who want and need the social safety net, feel they have no choice but to go along with the aggressive moral libertines because they have nowhere else to go.

A Christian Commonwealth party, or Christian Republic, or Christian Democrat, would give unhappy people on both sides a place to go. And they would.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   14:37:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Liberator (#18)

If we were starting from scratch you might have a good case and concept. It sure does appear you're supporting a strong Christian-Socialist state with heavy regs...

A new party CAN start from scratch. That's the whole point. The Democrats and Republicans have delivered us a shit sandwich, and we're not even going to respect their TRADITIONS. We're radical revolutionaries, within the bounds of the Constitution, and we're going to walk right over status quo and tradition.

Example: We get control of a branch of Congress, and the Seniority rules are GONE. There's a party platform, a set of beliefs - if you drift from that and start following your own drummer, or the other side, you've betrayed what we stand for and what the people voted for, and we're going to throw you out of the coalition and out of your seats on committees.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   14:40:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Vicomte13 (#20)

It isn't subversive. It's out in the open. They want full blown secular socialism, and they are implementing it over time through their control of the political process. The Party of Plutocrats, the GOP, hasn't stopped them in large part because they don't WANT to stop them. The plutocrats only want to SLOW DOWN the Democrats, so that they can reposition themselves to get the contracts and enjoy the monetary gains from the Democrat policy.

Yes, I agree with your assessment. What I do not agree with is your opinion that the GOP has had a consensus of opinion. They don't currently and NEVER had. I keep on trying to impress this point upon you -- conservative Pubbies do NOT and have not ever controlled the GOP's agenda, or its leadership (other than Reagan)...

Ergo, 100% of the Dems + 50% of the GOPe = 100% advancement of anti-Constitutional Dem-Socialism-Statism-Globalism. THAT equation is exactly why the Republicans never reverse anything.

The Democrats are out in the open. The plutocrats who really control the Republican Party are the ones with a subversive agenda. The rank-and-file middle class Right are the dupes in this all.

Exactly. Unfortunately, the GOP is a split, divided & conquered party. The Dems have remained a cohesive army of subversives.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   14:42:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Vicomte13 (#22) (Edited)

Hardcore socialism isn't quite the same as a "strong safety net." LBJ understood the difference when he and the Dems enacted the Plantation Act of 1965 along with the Third World Immigration Act of 1965, assuring the Dems of a constituency of social dependents, fatherless generations of Dem votes, and parasites until Doomsday.

Do these Dems and most Dems by and large also favor "gay marriage" and abortion? Without a doubt. Part of their opinion (even of older Dems) has been molded during the last 30 years of propaganda -- of a GOP that would "starve" them all while waging a "war against women" pounded into their ever-shrinking brains.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   14:52:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Vicomte13 (#23) (Edited)

A new party CAN start from scratch. That's the whole point.

Gonna be hard to do with 1A gone, the 2A gone, the 4A gone, the 14A warped, and persecution of Christians and conservatives promoted and sanctioned by a tyrannical goobermint.

Example: We get control of a branch of Congress, and the Seniority rules are GONE. There's a party platform, a set of beliefs - if you drift from that and start following your own drummer, or the other side, you've betrayed what we stand for and what the people voted for, and we're going to throw you out of the coalition and out of your seats on committees.

The Conservatives of the GOP can't break the Rockefeller/GOPe hold of power and "leadership," yet you expect a brand new moralist party to waltz in and shake things up? Jefferson knew what it would take:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   14:59:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Vicomte13, Liberator (#13)

Employers who hire illegals need to be fined heavily, to remove all economic incentive for hiring them.

This is the solution. The problem is an enforcement mechanism. The employer must have an an available and reliable way to verify the status of prospective employees. Employees can readily provide bogus documents/information and get government acceptance and benefits.

nolu chan  posted on  2014-11-20   15:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: nolu chan, Vicomte13 (#27)

The problem is an enforcement mechanism. The employer must have an an available and reliable way to verify the status of prospective employees. Employees can readily provide bogus documents/information and get government acceptance and benefits.

Yup.

I place the blame for the failure of this simple enforcement mechanism being in place on the vacuous skulls that were Bush, Cheney, Rice, and the rest of the sneaky neocon-GOPe globalist saboteurs of US sovereignty.

Considering this as well as many other ways the Bush Admin encouraged and enabled the Illegal Invasion during the so-called "War on Terror," how does ANY one NOT consider DubyaCo traitors to the USA and constitution?

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   15:30:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Liberator (#24) (Edited)

I keep on trying to impress this point upon you -- conservative Pubbies do NOT and have not ever controlled the GOP's agenda, or its leadership (other than Reagan)...

I keep trying to impress this point on you: they never have, and they never will.

They didn't under Reagan either. Would Poppy Bush really have been Reagan's VP choice? They stood Reagan up in front of a political grave and told him that if he wanted to be President, that Bush was going to be his running mate.

And Reagan put into place plenty of policies that advanced the oligarchy. Twas Reagan who tried to gut Social Security. He got burned badly enough by the Democrats that he stood down on that.

Reagan gave us illegal alien amnesty, round 1. Obama will give us round 2.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   16:41:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Liberator (#26)

The Conservatives of the GOP can't break the Rockefeller/GOPe hold of power and "leadership," yet you expect a brand new moralist party to waltz in and shake things up?

Yes I do. And I can tell you how too: the way the Jews did it and the way the Chinese are doing it: by relentlessly favoring only their own kind in all things - ESPECIALLY in everything having to do with economics, hiring and promotion.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   16:43:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: nolu chan (#27)

This is the solution. The problem is an enforcement mechanism. The employer must have an an available and reliable way to verify the status of prospective employees. Employees can readily provide bogus documents/information and get government acceptance and benefits.

Well, it's never going to happen. The Democrats want the voters. The Republican plutocrats want the labor, and will never accept EMPLOYERS getting financially gutted for making excessive, illegal profits. Rather, the Republicans will focus on tormenting the poor immigrants, and the Democrats will let them, to an extent, in order to highlight why the Democrats are better.

Meanwhile, thanks to birth control, abortion and sex-as-recreation, the white population will dwindle and the Latinos will grow in number until they are all things.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-20   16:46:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Liberator, 2 + 2 equals 5, D 'n R Common Core (#24)

100% of the Dems + 50% of the GOPe = 100% advancement of anti-Constitutional Dem-Socialism-Statism-Globalism

Common Core?

"There's not a dimes worth of difference between Democrats and Republicans" ~ George Wallace


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2014-11-20   17:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: hondo68 (#32)

Common Core?

But...but...It's fo' da children. It'll help them find McJobs in the future while ensuring that gifted students lose all incentive to learn and become McJob store managers.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   21:32:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Vicomte13 (#29)

They [conservative Pubbies] didn't [control the GOP] under Reagan either.

Isn't that what I'd just explained to you? Reagan may have been the only non-elite, non-Ivy League tool, non-CFR, non-Mason Prez to be President in the 20th century.

Would Poppy Bush really have been Reagan's VP choice? They stood Reagan up in front of a political grave and told him that if he wanted to be President, that Bush was going to be his running mate.

True, Poppy Bush was foisted upon The Gipper as VP by the Rockefeller-controlled GOP. (Just goes to further reinforce opposing faction of the GOP, and who actually has been at fault.) Despite the weaselly Bush waiting his turn, Reagan STILL created a national pride, economic confidence and opportunity, and peace in his time. You DO remember the 1980s, right? ZERO wars (except for the Grenada skirmish.)

I'm surprised you didn't pay more attention throughout the 1980s.

And Reagan put into place plenty of policies that advanced the oligarchy. Twas Reagan who tried to gut Social Security. He got burned badly enough by the Democrats that he stood down on that.

So Reagan didn't quite top off the beer mug. Big deal. Considering saddled with a Dem Congress, what Reagan pulled off; as well as creating as much of his vision for America was miraculous. And at least he tried to "reform" NOT "gut" SS. For that he ought to have been given a medal. NOW look at the bureaucratic leviathan he despised.

To be fair, the second half of RR's admin was infested and sabotaged by Rockefeller globalists. His trust was betrayed as he was plotted against by BushCo's GOPe brethren.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-20   21:47:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Liberator (#34)

This is what you're left with: telling yourself fables about Reagan while everything you believe in slides down the chute into the dumpster.

You're a Republican loyalist and will remain one all of your life. Reagan did the GOP good service in that regard.

So console yourself with his faded glory, because that's all you will ever have. At best, Reagan was your Agincourt. But Agincourt was followed by Patay. You may choose to ignore Patay, and Orleans and Beaugency and the rest, but the map reflects who actually won that war in the end. The English won a battle and wrote plays about it. The French won the war and have ruled every village in dispute for the 550 years since.

Way back up the threads lies the origin of these discussions: the assertion, by Republican loyalists such as yourself, that a vote for a third party candidate, or a non-vote, or a vote for anybody but the Republican candidate, is a vote for Hillary.

You're not going to change your mind on that, because in the end, the Republican Party is your home, and you won't leave it.

Which means that, from your perspective, I'm voting for Hillary. Of course I will not actually vote for Hillary at all. Nor will I vote for your Republican. You believe that your conservatives will take over the GOP. I believe that this will never even come close to happen, and I will waste no time in the fantasy that it will. The Republican brand is corrupt and tainted, and I won't associate with it.

Which means that I'm "For Hillary", in your logic. You've taken up the George Bush line "If you're not with us, you're against us." Very well then, on your words, I am against you. I am against you because your Republican Party offers nothing good. It is totally corrupt and its policies are evil and are destroying the country. You have to be stopped, just like the Democrats have to be stopped.

There are not enough of me to stop you, so this war is lost. Therefore, I leave you and the Democrats in possession of the field, and observe that the Democrats have always won, and will continue to win. They are the stronger horse, and smarter, and they win. I won't ally with them, but I can certainly see who is going to win the battle.

In this American political version of the "100 Years War", the Republicans are the English, the Democrats are the French, the tide of history is with the French. The Republicans won some battles and have their handful of heroes they can write about in future years. But the Democrats hold the ground and will win in the end.

In fact, just last night Obama's battering ram busted open the castle door. For now the illegals will proliferate, and will gradually move towards citizenship, and once they vote, its over for the GOP.

Obamacare may be modified here and there, but ultimately there will be government health care.

Gun rights will gradually be titrated away.

It's just a matter of time.

I would like to see a different outcome, but folks like you have divided your efforts - you want a certain outcome AND you want it to be the Republicans who bear the standard. You can only have one of those things, though, and in the end, you've chosen the Republican standard.

So stand and die under it. It doesn't represent me. Morally, it represents great evil. I will stand with you under a different banner for common ideals, but if the price of resisting Democrats is to stand under the Republican banner, I will go home to the farm. Enjoy your fight for your Republican flag. It's not my flag and I will not fight for it or serve it, or ally with it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-21   8:59:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Vicomte13 (#35)

The Republican brand is corrupt and tainted, and I won't associate with it.

Just the other day you said you would support Huckabee. You also said you could maybe vote for Cruz.

A K A Stone  posted on  2014-11-21   9:02:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#36)

Just the other day you said you would support Huckabee. You also said you could maybe vote for Cruz.

Yes, I did. I said I would support HUCKABEE, and that I might vote for CRUZ.

I didn't say I would support the REPUBLICAN PARTY.

I am willing to support INDIVIDUALS, regardless of their party affiliation, if there is some quality of the INDIVIDUAL. But if there's a "Democrat" or "Republican" party affiliation associated with that individual, that's a severe negative. There has to be something very positive there to overcome the negative fact of affiliation with a very crappy party.

Huckabee could do it for me. Cruz damaged himself with me when he went to that Arab Christian convocation and espoused the position that you're essentially un-Christian if you're not pro-Israel. His position is wrong and outrageous, and my ability to support him dropped about 90% from that one incident. Now I see him as an Israel-firster, and that is a very morally evil position to take.

God first. Family second. Country third.

If his position is that God and Israel are perfectly aligned, well, that's bad theology. If that's the theology of his Church - and it may be - then I have to say that my religion is much more closely aligned with the Orthodox Arab Christians in that room than it is with his idiotic and ignorant version of Christianity.

But I haven't looked into it.

Cruz was right about the government shutdown, and I applaud him for that. But it also showed so clearly that the Republicans WON'T use the only power they really have to truly STOP Obama, because the outcome of all of that was to make very clear that protecting the financial interests of the Alphas is more important to Republican politicians than protecting against what their propaganda says are existential threats to the country.

Ted Cruz is very damaged goods in my eyes because he is an idiot on Christian religious matters as concerns Arab Orthodox and Israel. Christian Orthodoxy and the survival of Orthodox Christians must trump the survival of Israel, if it comes to that, because Christianity is right and Judaism is wrong - bottom line.

Still could I support Cruz? Probably, if he doesn't do that sort of thing again. Because I see him as an attention whore, I think that the really bad reaction he got from the speech to the Arab Christians was probably sufficient to frighten him into not doing that sort of thing again.

He's out of my good graces, but I might be able to support him.

But Huckabee has been right on so many issues of core Christian importance so many times that I am ready to vote for him. He is much preferable to Cruz, in my eyes.

Neither one of them impress me for being Republicans.

Vicomte13  posted on  2014-11-21   10:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Vicomte13 (#35)

I would like to see a different outcome, but folks like you have divided your efforts - you want a certain outcome AND you want it to be the Republicans who bear the standard. You can only have one of those things, though, and in the end, you've chosen the Republican standard.

Vic, you really haven't paid much attention to my recent posts OR years of past posts. That's disappointing.

Anyway, "in the end" I'm a pragmatist, a realist, and hopeful visionary. Reality's paradigm is either Republican OR Democrat. Whether or not one believes in 10% of the party platform or 80%. There remain a good number of Republicans who are pro-life, pro-guns, and pro-family. On the Dems side, the last three issues are a consensus: PRO-ABORTION, ANTI-GUN, and PRO-GAY. And here you are telling me it doesn't matter. And then the biggest problem you can't seem to address: There IS no viable optional Third Party. Now what??

Dems have been killing us slowly, but giving conservatives a chance to win some battles, and just perhaps, the war; the latter (Dems) have been killing us rapidly, "death by a thousand cuts."

You on the other hand believe in an ideal, a fantasy that just isn't possible for decades -- if ever. These divisive, confused times have been prophesied. The politics of the matter is but a spiritual war. Same as it was in 1776 when good, faithful men -- our Founders -- won the day. Only now, the Beast has returned to reclaim his realm.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-21   11:14:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Vicomte13 (#35)

You're a Republican loyalist and will remain one all of your life. Reagan did the GOP good service in that regard.

So console yourself with his faded glory, because that's all you will ever have.

Again -- My assessment of your broad-sweeping erroneous generalization of my position is that you reading comprehension is woefully lacking.

a) I am "loyal" to God.

b) ONLY the Republican Party supports righteous issues.

c) The Dem Party represents ZERO righteous issues; worse than that, they represent satanic ideals.

d) Ergo, EVERY Republican candidate by default are presumed by large to be better representative than ANY Dems. Are there a couple of exceptions? Perhaps.

e) The 1980s was a decade of peace, hope, prosperity, and a glimmer of the best of America -- because of Ronald Reagan. Yes, THAT "faded glory" is the best we will ever see in our lifetime, or in the foreseeable future.

You're not going to change your mind on that, because in the end, the Republican Party is your home, and you won't leave it. Which means that, from your perspective, I'm voting for Hillary.

Wrong again. X2.

You've taken up the George Bush line "If you're not with us, you're against us." Very well then, on your words, I am against you. I am against you because your Republican Party offers nothing good. It is totally corrupt and its policies are evil and are destroying the country. You have to be stopped, just like the Democrats have to be stopped.

You're "against" the reality of the current situation. I didn't create it. You didn't create it. And btw, if you can't find any viable, profound differences between Republicans and Democrats (especially now), you're either blind, ignorant, or too stubborn to concede the obvious.

You're mistaken by conflating my opinion with Dubya Bush;You're also mistaken by presuming my support of certain Republican candidates to be an endorsement of the Republican leadership, the controlling Rockefeller wing, and the GOP as a whole. Finally, there IS a difference between a group of pirates who steal your bicycle, and the pirates who steal your car....as well as bicycle. Opting out of the battle of the political reality of the times doesn't help Christian issues; It aids the hastening of our demise. Stomping your feet because a American Christian-Socialist monarchy isn't in place is futile.

Liberator  posted on  2014-11-21   11:41:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Vicomte13 (#31)

Well, it's never going to happen. The Democrats want the voters. The Republican plutocrats want the labor, and will never accept EMPLOYERS getting financially gutted for making excessive, illegal profits. Rather, the Republicans will focus on tormenting the poor immigrants, and the Democrats will let them, to an extent, in order to highlight why the Democrats are better.

Enforcing the law is not torture.

A possibility would be to require aliens, as a condition of a work permit, to have a national ID card with picture and fingerprint. This could facilitate work status verification. Accompany that with prison time for impersonating a U.S. citizen.

Democrats doing something to highlight why the Democrats are better is like Obama giving another speech to highlight how Obamacare is saving each family $2,500 per year and imploring them to tithe 10% or $250 to the Democratic National Party. President Obama and Senate leader Harry Reed and House minority leader Nancy Pelosi have been so discredited that the popularity of the Dem party has fallen below the Republicans. That is quite an achievement. Democratic senate candidates were defeated with a months long recitation of Obama, Obamacare. Those who voted for it could not make any other topic gain traction. There is very little support for Obama's executive action now and it will be just one more anchor for the Dem party candidates to drag around in their next election... if they defend it for the next two years... and they will have to defend it or it will be killed by the majority.

nolu chan  posted on  2014-11-21   12:29:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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