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Title: Amish in WNY told their children can't work
Source:
call to decision
URL Source: http://calltodecision.com/aiwt.htm
Published: Dec 13, 2006
Author: unattributed
Post Date: 2006-12-13 22:49:11 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 4971
Comments: 17
"After years of going about their traditions unhindered," some Amish families in western New York state say they may move because authorities have told them they must stop employing their underage children in sawmilling, woodworking and construction-related work, The Amherst Record reports.
It is "a clash of titans — the state of New York versus God," the newspaper writes. And it is a clash that threatens "a bedrock principle of
the Amish faith, according to local church Deacon Jerome Graber."
"Old Order Amish children," the Record reports, "attend school through eighth grade, then commence vocational training with their parents, girls in the home and boys with their fathers in the family business. But if the state prohibits them from working, Amish boys ages 14 through 17 essentially are left purposeless."
" 'Our biggest teaching comes from our walk, not just our word. Our children need to be with us. They belong to God and we are accountable for what we teach them — or don't teach them,' " Graber told the newspaper.
The Record said that Amy Misisco, a state labor investigator in the Rochester office, said she could not comment on what the Amish families have been ordered to do or on any investigation into their employment practices.
The Amish are rarely in the news. When 10 Amish schoolgirls were taken hostage and shot Oct. 2 -- five died, and the five survivors have varying disabilities -- the forgiveness offered to the killer by the close-knit community captured national attention.
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Leave the amish alone
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Article above used below as source http://www.theamherstrecord.com/local/local_story_345143642.html SPECIAL REPORT: Amish culture clash in WNY Tradition of child vocational training violates state labor laws, threatens fate of local settlement By Joyce Miles http://TheAmherstRecord.com Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. — Proverbs 22:6 Roger Yutzy is thinking of getting out of the fencing business and back into farming. Lloyd Yoder is thinking of getting out of New York completely. In the Amish settlement just east of the Niagara-Orleans county line, craftsmen are feeling the pinch since state labor officials paid them a series of visits this past summer. After years of going about their traditions unhindered, they were informed most Amish businesses are violating state child labor laws by employing their underage children. They were told the practice had to cease immediately. A half-year later, settlers are fearful they may lose their businesses and the tight-knit community they’ve fashioned for themselves in Lyndonville. In a clash of titans — the state of New York versus God — bureaucracy appears to have the upper hand, and that leaves the Amish only two choices: change their ways or change their ZIP codes. “Not that I couldn’t hire help, but I’m missing the point if I can’t work with my children,” Yoder says. “I want to follow the law of the land, but if it contradicts the Bible ... I go with God’s word first.” Yoder, a sawmill operator and apple crate maker who carved a working estate from woods and grassland off Murdock Road in the past few years, put his property up for sale in late November and decided he’s moving his family to Montana. He’d been wanting to go west someday and the labor department’s warnings, which put two of his sons out of work, pushed him to act. “This is a good business and a good place to live, but we’ve made the decision,” Yoder said. “I expect (change in labor’s stance) to be a long, drawn-out thing.” The problem that the Amish confront is a set of state work rules limiting child employment in some vocations and banning it in others — including sawmilling, woodworking and construction-related industries that are the lifeblood of the settlement’s enterprise. Old Order Amish children attend school through eighth grade, then commence vocational training with their parents, girls in the home and boys with their fathers in the family business. But if the state prohibits them from working, Amish boys ages 14 through 17 essentially are left purposeless. That violates a bedrock principle of the Amish faith, according to local church Deacon Jerome Graber. “Our biggest teaching comes from our walk, not just our word. Our children need to be with us. They belong to God and we are accountable for what we teach them — or don’t teach them,” he said. Vernon Yoder, owner/operator of a bulk food store in the settlement, worries saying goodbye to his neighbors is something he may have to get used to. “The state rules have put a lot of pressure on us. Rather than create a hassle, some of the Amish are moving away,” he said. “There may be no other choice.” Legalities squeezing Amish U.S. labor law sets relatively loose guidelines for child employment. There are some limits, in industries such as logging, sawmilling and metalwork, to prevent teens from operating heavy machinery, but the law allows them to do other lighter work. New York State law, however, bans under-18 employment in those and other industries altogether. Floyd Yoder, the apple crate maker, says after word came down about the state laws, he called a labor official in Rochester to inquire whether his 14- and 16-year-old boys could at least assemble crates away from the shop floor where the heavy machines are operated. The answer was no, he said. What exactly the state directed Amish businesses to do, or cease doing, could not be determined. Amy Misisco, a labor investigator in the Rochester office, said officers do not comment on the specifics of any investigation; and a US&J request made under the state Freedom of Information Act could not be met by the Albany-based Department of Labor legal office this week. Yutzy, the fence-maker and bishop of the Lyndonville Amish Church, says a labor official approached him in mid-summer, as both the settlement spiritual leader and a business owner allegedly in violation of state law, and asked him to spread the word about the rules. The official had difficulty contacting businesses for inspections, Yutzy said, so no citations were ever made — but a copy of the rules was left behind and a crisis was sparked. “(The official) said his department had received some complaints from local contractors and it is their job to act if complaints are received,” Yutzy said. “It’s been drastic for us. We have families that can’t provide work in their businesses for their own children. It’s having quite an effect.” Between 80 and 90 percent of all businesses in the 32-family settlement are affected, Yutzy said. Because the state wants all youths younger than 18 to have working papers OK’d by a school district superintendent, Vernon Yoder figures even non-industrial businesses like his bulk food store are affected. The need for the papers means his underage daughter shouldn’t stock shelves or work the family cash register unless she gets an OK from an outside authority. Even if the papers could be obtained, Graber, is troubled by the notion settlers would pursue permission from others to raise their own kids. It breaches the Amish community’s firm belief in separation of church and state. “Sometimes, by getting into that system, it just opens the door to something else,” he said. Graber cites a 1972 U.S. Supreme Court ruling, Wisconsin v. Yoder, that supported Amish parents’ right to keep their children out of public schools. The larger point of the ruling, to his way of thinking, is that parents have a right to raise their children as they see fit. “Our children are not forced to work, they want to work,” Graber says. “We don’t want to see them do dangerous things and get hurt.” Where it concerns children, the law of the land seems to contain some contradictions, Floyd Yoder observes. While it prohibits them from working in presumptively dangerous occupations, the law allows them to partake of other potentially dangerous activities including driving motor vehicles and playing contact sports. “In football, they have a doctor and an ambulance on standby — and this is OK,” Yoder said. “It does seem a bit skewed.” ‘Real fine line’ in legislation The future of the settlement is in question as Amish business owners struggle to figure out how best to react to the state’s determinations about child labor. After the summer visit from the labor official, Yutzy took his underage sons off his fencing crew and put them to work milking cows. He could because there are far fewer prohibitions on child farm labor and, having been a farmer himself, he could quit fencing if he has to and teach his sons the dairy business instead. Many Amish parents don’t have that option. “Others have no (farming) experience, or they don’t have enough land. It’s all bought up,” Yutzy said. “Hopefully we can get into agriculture again, get out of the home-based businesses with power tools — but those who can’t will be the first to move out.” Amish elders have asked state Assemblyman Stephen Hawley, R-Batavia, to find a way for the Amish to be allowed to observe federal rather than state workplace rules. “We do not seek special favors,” senior minister Alvin Beachy said. “We simply would like the (state) to recognize that our way does not harm anyone. Non-Amish children are tied to school. We think we are ahead by learning our children, in the home, a vocation.” Hawley says he’s willing to give legislation a try, but he suggests it may not be easy. “We’re looking to various possibilities. There is some similarity between a family farm and what this settlement in Lyndonville is doing,” Hawley said. “We don’t want to make it unattractive or uncompetitive for people who want to comply with the laws. But it’s a real fine line, because we want to make sure there’s a level playing field, too.” State Sen. George Maziarz, R-Newfane, who’s helped negotiate smaller state-versus-Amish disputes in the past, says he’s heard only one complaint over the years from a non-Amish business person about the settlement’s use of child labor. If asked, he would consider legislative outs for them now, he says — but only under certain conditions. “I can’t say what I would do without hearing from the labor department what the issues are first. First and foremost, the safety of the children has to be taken into consideration,” he said. “(This) might be a little more difficult than other issues I’ve handled.”
It's time for Amish to wake up and join the real world.
Maybe it's time for them to stockpile arms. The world would be much better if we were all more like the amish. The people in this country today are generally a bunch of suck ups. They obey whatever the government says be it morale or not. People need to start IGNORING unjust laws. Just because it was voted on is no reason to give up your values and obey some majority rule. Do what is right. Screw the government and their dictates. Piss on them.
Ridiculous.
Which part is ridiculous. All of it or certain parts. Please be specific. The Amish are very self reliant. Wouldn't you say that is a good trait? They seem to have high morales and teach their kids the value of hard work. I think that is a positive. On guns why not, we have a second amendment and they may have to defend themselves someday.
Which part is ridiculous. All of it or certain parts. Please be specific. The Amish are very self reliant. Wouldn't you say that is a good trait? They seem to have high morales and teach their kids the value of hard work. I think that is a positive. On guns why not, we have a second amendment and they may have to defend themselves someday.
Aren't the Amish pacifists? If so you are asking them to renounce their beliefs to save themselves. Why? They live in the past and hold to that like it's some kind of important spiritual deed. They insult God and Christianity with their lifestyle, by putting forth that it is in any way 'linked to' or 'required by' Christianity. That's the way it is now. People ignore every law they think they can get away with. Actually, Western civilization was built on the concept of people obeying majority rule instead of anarchy. It's the price of peace and happiness. It's childish to sit in peaceful, prosperous society and bitch and complain about it and how you want to tear it down. Fucking ridiculous.
Yes. I think it's a great trait. I don't like the way they brainwash their kids into their cult. It's not fair. The kids don't have the freedom to pick a religion. They are emotionally blackmailed into choosing to stay Amish. It's sick. Using guns to protect yourself from the government, or to change the government, is a futile fantasy, and dangerous, for you. Learn the lesson of Fallujah: Ordinary people with all the time in the world to prepare get creamed by soldiers. Any armed uprising will be crushed effortlessly.
You, much like the multicultural, white-race hating, anti-God guv't toadies, do not appreciate or understand God's principles. But some day you will understand the concept of God's absolutes, while those in this life who didn't, are also beating off the eternal flames of Hell.
"If I thought this war was to abolish slavery, I would resign my commission, and offer my sword to the other side." --Ulysses S. Grant
I hope that isn't you.
b.s. dingbat. Western civilization was built on the concept of minority rule.
She said, hey cowboy, where's your horse I said, I lost everything but this saddle in my second divorce...
No one cares what you think.
Lol. It must kill you that Western Civilization was formed by white men suppressing women and negros.
She said, hey cowboy, where's your horse I said, I lost everything but this saddle in my second divorce...
One thing for sure, the formation of Western civ had nothing to do with your type -- though they were present, ever-seeking an opportunity to latch on to the teat.
Moron. My family is an old and honorable one, we have always created, built and never leeched off of the state or others and have always been a credit to the societys and nations which we have lived. You, I'm sure, would like to say as much, about your family, but that would be require knowing whom your father was.
She said, hey cowboy, where's your horse I said, I lost everything but this saddle in my second divorce...
OK, that was good. Where'd you get it?
Well? Let's hear your side! 7 & 8
#2. To: A K A Stone (#0)
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
#3. To: Biff Tannen (#2)
#4. To: A K A Stone (#3)
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
#5. To: Biff Tannen (#4)
#6. To: Biff Tannen (#4)
#7. To: A K A Stone (#3)
Maybe it's time for them to stockpile arms.
The world would be much better if we were all more like the amish.
They obey whatever the government says be it morale or not. People need to start IGNORING unjust laws.
Just because it was voted on is no reason to give up your values and obey some majority rule.
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
#8. To: A K A Stone (#6)
The Amish are very self reliant. Wouldn't you say that is a good trait?
They seem to have high morales and teach their kids the value of hard work.
On guns why not, we have a second amendment and they may have to defend themselves someday.
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
#9. To: Biff Tannen (#8)
I don't like the way they brainwash their kids into their cult.
#10. To: cwrwinger (#9)
while those in this life who didn't, are also beating off the eternal flames of Hell.
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
#11. To: Biff Tannen (#7)
Actually, Western civilization was built on the concept of people obeying majority rule instead of anarchy.
#12. To: continental op (#11)
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
#13. To: Biff Tannen (#12)
#14. To: continental op (#13)
(Edited)
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
#15. To: Biff Tannen (#14)
#16. To: continental op (#15)
You, I'm sure, would like to say as much, about your family, but that would be require knowing whom your father was.
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
#17. To: A K A Stone (#7)
(Edited)
Whatcha Lookin' At, Butthead
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