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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Bible Study See other Bible Study Articles Title: Three Articles that help explain Israel Source: WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) URL Source: http://www.wels.net/news-events/for ... december-2008/invisible-church Published: Jun 24, 2012 Author: various - Noted at end of each article. Post Date: 2012-06-24 10:03:21 by SJN Keywords: None Views: 243377 Comments: 482 The Invisible Church As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. Church. The word paints a picture. You see the building in which you worship. It may be a small, white-frame building set on a hill in the quiet countryside. Or it may be a large, stone structure occupying a street corner in a busy city. It’s not unusual for us to think of a building when we think of church. Worship is an important part of our lives, and that worship takes place in a building we love, whether it is fancy or plain. But that is not the way the word church is used in the Bible. In Scripture, church most often refers to people and not to buildings. The church is invisible In the New Testament the word ecclesia is often translated as church. Ecclesia refers to a group of people who have been called together. It is an assembly. Yet even that definition does not fully explain what the church is. As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. The church is both visible and invisible. Why would we call a church invisible? You can see a building. You can see the people who gather in that building. Yet we do speak of the church as invisible in the Apostles’ Creed when we confess “I believe in the holy Christian church, the communion of saints.” Sometimes people mistakenly use the term saint to refer to a person who does an abundance of good deeds, someone who helps others. But the Bible uses the term to describe simply a believer. We even distinguish between believers who have been called home to heaven and those who still battle in this world. We speak of saints triumphant and saints militant. The apostle Peter describes these believers as “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God” (1 Peter 2:9). Together all believers form the holy Christian church, a “spiritual house” made up of living stones chosen by God. When the Holy Spirit works faith in our hearts, we become part of this structure. The Lord Jesus can see the faith in our hearts. We, however, can only see the fruits of faith and not the faith itself. Because we cannot see faith, the church is invisible to our eyes. The prophet Elijah did not recognize that there were still seven thousand believers in Israel (1 Kings 19:8-18). He thought that he was the only believer left. Likewise, we cannot always tell whether a person is a believer or an unbeliever. As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. Although the church may be invisible to us, the Lord sees his church clearly. “The Lord knows those who are his” (2 Timothy 2:19). At the same time each person knows what is in his or her heart. Trusting in the promises the Lord gives us, we know that we belong to that communion of saints, the church of God. Characteristics of the invisible church This invisible gathering of all believers is not limited by geography. The apostle John reminds us that believers come from different places and “from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9). In addition, the church is not limited by time. All believers who have lived, are now living, and will live until Jesus returns at the end of time—all these believers are part of this church. The church, the body of all believers, is invisible, and it is also universal. Once again we confess this fact in the Third Article of the Apostles’ Creed. “I believe in the holy Christian church.” The first people who used this confession of faith said, “I believe in the holy catholic church.” The word catholic originally had no denominational connotation. It simply meant universal. When catholic became associated with a particular organization, the word Christian was substituted to prevent confusion. In the Apostles’ Creed we confess that we believe that the Lord gathers together everyone whose faith is in Jesus Christ as the Savior. People believe in many things. We say that we believe in our team, in our country, and in people who are dear to us. Likewise, many people believe in some religious figure other than Christ. God’s invisible church gathers together only those people who confess Jesus as their Savior. We distinguish ourselves from the followers of Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and every other religion. We confess that Jesus Christ is true man and true God. We believe that Christ is sinless and perfect and that he is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. As the Bible describes the church, it becomes clear that the church is both what we see and what we cannot see. In a world that suggests that it does not matter what you believe as long as you believe, it becomes important to remember that the invisible church gathers together all believers in Christ. Without faith in Jesus we cannot be saved. Without Jesus we have no part in the communion of saints, the gathering of all believers. Jesus makes that clear when he says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). People die. Church buildings may fall apart. Congregations may disband. But the invisible church continues. The Lord has promised that there will always be true believers who are kept faithful by the power of God. “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:27,28). What a comfort it is to know that the Holy Spirit, who calls us to faith, also preserves us in that faith through the gospel in Word and sacraments! It is easy to become attached to a congregation. It is in that fellowship that we listen to the good news of Jesus proclaimed. There we hear that our sins are forgiven. In our congregation we draw close to Jesus as we receive the sacrament of his body and blood. Likewise the building in which a congregation worships may be a special place. It may be the same structure in which we were baptized, confirmed, and married. It reminds us of all the blessings God has showered upon us. But we are part of something that is even more valuable, the holy Christian church. Our triune God has brought us together with people we may never see or know on this side of eternity. Through faith the Lord has made us a part of the congregation of all believers. Right now we are not able to see this church in its entirety. Yet what is invisible to our eyes now will be seen when the Lord returns in glory. What a joy it will be to see all believers from every part of the world and from all times! The day will come when we will gather together and praise the God of grace who gives us membership in his family, the invisible church. That church is not really invisible. It is only invisible to us. God sees it clearly. James Korthals, a professor at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, Wisconsin, is a member at David’s Star, Jackson. Peter's Picture of the Church 1 Peter 2:4-10 The word "temple" in our modern society usually describes a large, beautiful building which is used for the worship of some god. The use of such temples goes back thousands of years. Peter used it to paint a beautiful word picture of Jesus and his church in 2:4-8. Made up of living stones Jesus is pictured in many ways in John's gospel. Peter adds his own picture here, when he writes, "The Lord Jesus is the living stone" (v. 4). In verse 6 he gives the original source for this statement (Isaiah 28:16), where God said, "Look! I'm laying a stone in Zion [another name for Israel], a very special cornerstone of great value, and the person who believes in him will never be disappointed." In the ancient world the cornerstone was more than a stone on which was carved the date of construction. The cornerstone determined the length, the width, and the height of the building, so that the whole building depended on that cornerstone. That is the picture Peter uses to describe the church in verse 5a, where he says, "And since you are living stones, as you come to him you are built up into a spiritual temple," of which Jesus is the cornerstone. The church is built on Jesus, and around Jesus, the cornerstone. And it is made up of people who are like Jesus--perfectly holy beings in God's sight. That is the way God sees every person who truly believes in Jesus as his or her Savior, because our God-given faith makes us new creatures who are perfectly holy in God's sight, and every such person "will never be disappointed" on Judgment Day. Then Peter explains in verse 7, "This means that he's of great value to you people who believe in him, but for those who don't believe in him, 'the stone which the builders [the Jewish nation as a whole] decided was no good, is the very one which has become the cornerstone'; and 'the stone which will make people stumble, and the rock which will make them fall.' "How clear Peter makes it that Jesus is the difference between eternal life and eternal damnation. We are now a holy group of priests Next Peter uses a new metaphor in verse 5 when he says that the believers who come to Jesus as living stones "are built up into a spiritual temple, to be a holy group of priests, who offer up spiritual sacrifices which God is happy to receive." He continues in verses 9,10, "There was a time when you were no people at all, but now you are God's people. You who never knew God's mercy have now received his mercy." Praise the Lord! Peter is reminding us that there was a time when we were all outsiders, so far as God is concerned, unbelievers who had never heard of the triune God. But now that we have heard the good news and have come to believe it, we are God's people, while the Jews, as a nation, have rejected their Messiah and are outsiders. Now you must take note of the fact that every believer is a priest whose principal occupation it is to offer spiritual sacrifices to our triune God each day of our lives. Yes, from morning to evening we offer our God our thanks and praises for the undeserved love he has shown us by sending first his Son to atone for all our sins, and then his Holy Spirit who has brought us to believe the good news that all our sins are forgiven by Jesus' death on the cross, so that we are now God's children who are perfectly holy in God's sight. Our task as priests is to also bring him our other sacrifices. First there are our time and our talents which we spend carrying out the different tasks we can do as members of our congregations. In some cases we may give our Lord all of our time and talents to serve as pastors, teachers, missionaries, or church office workers. All of us, whether we are active workers or not, can offer the Lord a portion of our financial resources, which represent the value of our time spent in some gainful occupation. And of course the temple in which we serve is known to us as the church, the whole body of believers. The picture of the church that Peter gives us here is perhaps the most complete picture to be found anywhere in the Bible. Julian Anderson is a retired pastor and seminary professor living in Naples, Florida. (The Following article should help to illuminate why the Nation of Israel and it's people have seen thousands of years of turmoil). Samuel: A Judge in Israel Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers clamor for attention. Think back 300 years before Samuel. Following the death of those who carved a Jewish homeland out of Canaan, “another generation grew up, who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel” (Judges 2:10). To awaken his spiritually-anesthetized people, God enlisted neighboring nations to harass, enslave, and terrorize Israel. Slapped to consciousness, God’s people recognized their sin, pleaded for forgiveness, and prayed for relief. God then raised up leaders—judges—who with the Lord’s power pushed back the oppressors. Moral and spiritual health flourished. But “when the judge died, the people returned to ways even more corrupt than those of their fathers . . .” (Judges 2:19). Repenting to God This cycle of godlessness, oppression, repentance, freedom, upright living, and a return to godlessness repeated itself until Samuel. Remember Eli and his sons? 1 Samuel 7 brings us to a repentance and freedom section of that cycle and to Samuel as Israel’s final judge. The Ark of the Covenant remained in the border town of Kiriath-Jearim for 20 years after the Philistines captured it and then returned it to stem a Lord-induced plague. During those two decades “all the people of Israel mourned and sought after the Lord” (7:2). To confirm that renaissance of faith, Samuel summoned his countrymen to a spiritually essential, but politically provocative, act—national purification and rededication. Israel was not a free country. Philistine overlords kept close watch. When their surveillance noticed huge numbers of Israelites staging at Mizpah (literally, “look out point”), their early-warning alarms wailed. Mizpah was a military gem mounted in hills about eight miles north of Jerusalem. Soon the sound of Philistine marching boots, the clank of armor, and the bellow of war trumpets echoed off Mizpah. “When the Israelites heard of it, they were afraid . . .” (7:7). No doubt. Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers (dare we add personal problems or financial difficulties) clamor for attention. Victory through God Samuel, however, urged Israel to fasten on God. “Do not stop crying out to the Lord our God for us, that he may rescue us” (7:8). Strength was not in their military might, but in the Lord’s omnipotence. God confirmed that. With Israeli knees bent in prayer and without an Israeli sword unsheathed, God’s deafening thunder routed the Philistine army. Panicked, the troops stumbled south toward safety. Their backs made easy targets. The Philistine losses that day did not completely free Israel. We await Saul and David to accomplish that. Israel, however, did enjoy a season of peace with Philistia and, as a fringe benefit, with the Amorites. Concentrating on the Lord is daunting when dangers clamor for attention. To mark the victory, Samuel set up a monument called Ebenezer (“stone of help”). Ebenezer stones (church cornerstones, wedding anniversaries, birthdays) remind us, “Thus far has the Lord helped us.” But our most conclusive proof that there’s always an upside in our downside world is Jesus, “the stone the builders rejected [that] has become the capstone” (1 Peter 2:7). James A. Aderman is pastor at Fairview, Milwaukee. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: All (#0) Our Calling God calls us for a purpose. He graciously asks us to participate in calling others to faith in Jesus. An incomprehensible aspect of God's salvation plan is that from the very beginning he planned to let his people participate in it. Speaking of our mother, Eve, he said to the serpent, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel" (Genesis 3:15). The Savior would win salvation, but humanity would be involved. In fact, humanity would be the way God would bring his calling to the world. GOD CHOOSES HUMANS TO BRING ABOUT HIS PROMISES From the time Adam and Eve left the garden, God involved human beings in bringing his promise, which the world desperately needed to hear, by calling to himself a people with a purpose. In the Old Testament, God called the nation of Israel for a special purpose. In Genesis 12, the Lord appears to Abram, a childless old man married to a barren wife, and promises to make of him a great nation, a people begotten by the promise of God, a people with the purpose of sharing the promise of God with the world: "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; . . . and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you" (vv. 2,3). God had a purpose to achieve, and he called a people into existence to carry out that purpose. The purpose was the promise made to the patriarchs that all people on earth might be blessed by the arrival of God in the flesh. The calling was to be the people through whom the Seed of woman would come. They would carry this promise and the line of the Promise-fulfiller through generation after generation. Why did God call these people? Why would he involve them in his plan of salvation? His reasons defy our logic. The only answer is grace. They carried the promise and told the story of the coming Savior even when they were unaware of it. For example, the straying kings of Judah still carried David's line forward. And then one day about two thousand years after Abram heard the promise—and two thousand years before we had—this people achieved their purpose in the womb of a virgin overshadowed by the power of the Most High and bearing the hope of all the ages and the promised Son of Israel, God with us. MEN AND WOMEN CALLED TO SHARE THE GOSPEL In the New Testament, the need for a physical bloodline to carry the promise of the Savior had passed. Yet God wanted his promise of forgiveness shared with the world. Again defying all human logic, the Lord of heaven and earth took the priceless treasure and put it into jars of clay. He invited men and women to be involved with his plan of salvation. Just as God called Israel into existence to fulfill his purpose, so now has God called a new people out of nothing to carry out his purposes in the world. This people too would carry Christ to the world. God called a people with a purpose—he called the church: "You are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God" (1 Peter 2:9,10). The church is a chosen people, a body of priests and kings, a nation holy and belonging to God. That is what God made us by calling us to faith and sonship in Christ. Immediately following these amazing statements of what we are, Peter tells us why God made us all those things. He tells us the calling that God gives the church, her purpose—namely, that the church might declare the praises of him who called us out of darkness into light. Our calling as the church is to be the mouth of God to this world. Grace upon grace, God took a mission the angels wish they had and gave it to us. Christ has invited us to participate in his rescue mission for the world. Jesus outlined the purpose and mission of the church at the end of Luke's gospel: "Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, 'This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem' " (24:45-47). That is the purpose God has given us. He calls us to preach the law and the gospel, repentance and forgiveness, to a world that needs to hear it. No longer does God's voice thunder from the mountain or from the skies. Rather, God puts his words into the mouths of his church and his ministers, and God speaks through us. This is what St. Paul meant when he said: "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God" (2 Corinthians 5:18-20). SHARE THE WORD; KEEP THE WORD As called members of the church, God has given us twin directives to guide our mission of preaching the gospel: share the Word with the world and keep the Word for the world. Our calling as the church is to preach the gospel. However, the call to preach the gospel is like a two-sided coin. One aspect of preaching the gospel is sharing the Word and promises of God with both the lost and the found. But on the other side of the coin, preaching the gospel also means to keep the Word for the world. As the Bible encourages us: "Watch your life and doctrine closely" (1 Timothy 4:16). "Be ready always to give an answer" (1 Peter 3:15; KJV). "Rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15; KJV). Christ did not intend for us to have only one side of the coin or the other. They are two different aspects of the same call. Christ wants us to both share the Word and keep the Word so that both we and our hearers be saved. God called us from eternity to be his children. God calls us in time to live as his sons and daughters in the roles and stations where he placed us in the world. But we have another calling too. This calling again is one of pure grace; and again, it is a calling to fulfill the purpose God has for us. He calls us to be his church—that is our calling for the world. Contributing editor Jonathan Schroeder is pastor at Faith, Sharpsburg, Georgia. This is the fifth article in an eight-part series on our calling. I've added another (4th article), to illuminate just what Israel means. Both as nation and church. I put in bold the pertinent part to the article and the former articles as well. SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:21:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: SJN (#0) "And so the escalation-cum-provocation-cum false flag is complete. There was a time when shooting down a foreign jet over one's territory was considered self-defense. But not when the one doing the defending is perpetual media bogeyman Syria, which "unnamed sources say" kills hundreds, nay thousands of its own people daily, usually in round, soundbitey numbers." Anything starting out to explain the Jewish Homeland fostered by the 1916 Sykes Picot Agreement, augmented by the Churchill 1921 Cairo Conference, furthered by the Balfour declaration 1926 , and cemented with the POTUS LBJ calling back the fighters to the USS Saratoga to leave the USS Liberty at the mercy of Israeli full on attack.... Anything starting out with: 'As the Bible describes' is full on bat shite crazyland.....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:29:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: All (#2) Next steps: 1. NATO issues formal complaint, with open-ended demands. 2. Russia, then China, respond in kind. 3. Geopolitical risk goes offerless. mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:36:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: All (#3) War for the Jews stays on perpetual track to Samson Option....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:37:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: mcgowanjm (#2) I have no doubt that anything to do with the Gospel is "crazyland" to you. You have planks over your eyes and your heart is stone cold. May our Lord and Savior have mercy on you. SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:37:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: All (#4) Sun, 06/24/2012 - 10:14 | 2555498 Azannoth Azannoth's picture From wikipedia "..As of 2008, 631 Phantoms remained in active service worldwide, while the Phantom also remains in use as a target drone operated by the U.S. military." - maybe that unarmed solo fligh didn't even have a pilot? just wondering mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:38:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: mcgowanjm (#2) This thread is a Bible Study. It was posted as such. It is meant to help other Christians see the folly of misinterpreting what Israel should mean to Christians as a whole. SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:38:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: All (#6) And THAT would explain the USSA of a VietNam era jet. ;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:39:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: mcgowanjm (#6) I would appreciate it if you could focus on the topic. SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:40:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: SJN (#5) ou have planks over your eyes and your heart is stone cold. May our Lord and Savior have mercy on you. Me and the Lord Saviour are tight thank you very much....;} While dates are hard and fast....;} Of which you supply very little. Power trumps Religion always. The Sweet Baby Jesus understands completely. mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:40:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: mcgowanjm (#10) I doubt very much that you read what was posted. And if you believe human power trumps the Christian religion. You have quite an awakening in store. SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:42:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: SJN (#9) I would appreciate it if you could focus on the topic. Title: Three Articles that help explain Israel I'm right on the topic....;} Title: Three Articles that help explain Israel I'm explaining how Israel perpetuates the perpetual war for the Jews. And the latest salvos to provide Israel with all the cover it needs....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:42:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: mcgowanjm (#12) This thread, as I stated before is about BIBLE STUDY. Why don't you stay with your own thread, unless you have biblical notes to back your thesis. SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:44:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: SJN (#11) Sure I did. After you put down: 'As the bible describes...' together with your title: 'Title: Three Articles that help explain Israel' I just brought it up to date. June 7, 2012 Anniversary of the attack on the USS Liberty....like that....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:44:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: mcgowanjm (#14) There is nothing of the Gospel in what you have posted to back your contention. SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:46:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: A K A Stone, SJN, All (#13) This thread, as I stated before is about BIBLE STUDY. O yeah, and mine: LF McGowanjm wire is about Current Events. I'll make you and your bible study mates a deal. You keep your holy roller ziofundy bible cartoons off my thread and I'll stauy away from yours.... And unless and until you do....well....here I am..... Me and you and the sweet baby hesus.....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:47:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: SJN (#15) There is nothing of the Gospel in what you have posted to back your contention. Sure there is: 'Blessed are the peacemakers' 'Blessed are the poor' 'Blessed are the meek' ;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-24   10:48:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: mcgowanjm (#16) I don't post anything on your thread. Why don't you try treating individuals as they treat you, instead of lumping people together? SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   10:49:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: SJN, mcgowanjm (#18) The Roots of Christian Zionism sowed by Scofield The Roots of Christian Zionism sowed by Scofield from Chuck Coty on Vimeo. whyofcourse  posted on  2012-06-24   10:54:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: whyofcourse (#19) I am more interested in Christians who have either misunderstood the clear scripture on just what Israel is/means, or have purposefully warped what the Bible has to say. So many Christians have bought in to the Israel propaganda and seem unwilling to look at what the Gospel actually says. (Yes, the fallout of such misunderstanding is politically clear). SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   11:01:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: whyofcourse (#19) I'll listen to more of this video later. I only caught a little bit of it for now. But yes, clearly Dispensationalism is contrary to various clear and explicit Bible statements and based on misinterpretations of several Bible prophecies (mostly in the Old Testament). SJN  posted on  2012-06-24   11:18:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: SJN, Satan's Tool, mcgowanjm (#5) I have no doubt that anything to do with the Gospel is "crazyland" to you. You have planks over your eyes and your heart is stone cold. Jimmy's mad at God...Because the Free Will he's given man has been abused (by listening too much to the whispers of Satan). Thus, Jimmy's (ironically) agree to do Satan's bidding. As "revenge". If THAT isn't crazy, what is?? May our Lord and Savior have mercy on you. That depends on Jimmy humbling hilsef, doesn't it? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-24   12:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: SJN, mcgowanjm (#18) I don't post anything on your thread. Why don't you try treating individuals as they treat you, instead of lumping people together? The Dark hates the Light. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-24   12:28:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: Liberator (#22) JM's resistance of the beast you worship is truly the work of the Lord. Jesus, afterall, was a rebel. Logsplitter  posted on  2012-06-24   13:46:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: mcgowanjm (#17) Sorry, I failed to ping you to #24 Logsplitter  posted on  2012-06-24   13:55:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: Logsplitter (#24) JM's resistance of the beast you worship is truly the work of the Lord. So...It's your contention that God is to blame for JM's rejection of God...and worship of Satan? Wanna clarify? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-24   14:09:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: Liberator (#26) No God, no Satan. One can't exist without the other. So when is God going to do domething about this Satan person? Waiting...waiting...waiting... Logsplitter  posted on  2012-06-24   17:38:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: Logsplitter (#27) (Edited) So when is God going to do domething about this Satan person? I guess God doesn't think this would be as interesting a place without ole Satan here to mix things up a little. NewsJunky  posted on  2012-06-24   17:55:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: Logsplitter (#27) So when is God going to do domething about this Satan person? Waiting...waiting...waiting... Ha. The last thing that needs to happen is for the gods to pull up this planets file for review. It won't be pretty when it happens. Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'! Brian S  posted on  2012-06-24   20:13:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Logsplitter (#27) One can't exist without the other. A self-evident truth. buckeroo  posted on  2012-06-24   21:01:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: NewsJunky (#28) Yeah, I s'pose a little diversity never hurt anyone. Logsplitter  posted on  2012-06-24   22:57:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: Liberator (#26) Btw, I believe in a creator. I'm just not sure of his religious affiliation. Logsplitter  posted on  2012-06-24   23:01:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: Liberator, All (#22) Jimmy's mad at God..Because the Free Will he's given First....It's Mister Jimmie to you, Lib...;} Second...not mad at anyone....I don't get mad...I get even. Your god(s) fucked up the planet they created. Planet Hell. Second....It's ONLY free will until us 30 year long(period of Independence from ancestor fuckups and senility;) mortals decide that it IS PLANET HELL and act accordingly.... and then your vengeful god(d) who fucked this place up and created us decide to send us to the ETERNAL Burning tire Junk pile.... That's your god? Fuck him.....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-25   7:48:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: Logsplitter (#24) JM's resistance of the beast you worship is truly the work of the Lord. Jesus, afterall, was a rebel. ;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-25   7:49:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: Logsplitter, Redleghunter (#27) So when is God going to do domething about this Satan person? Waiting...waiting...waiting... That depends on the nature of "doing something"... Do you mean eliminate Satan? That'll be after the Second Coming....Until then, the Evil of Satan is becoming increasingly stronger during his last days (which is upon us).... For now Satan is given a free shot at whispering in your ear about sinning, reed, being your own god, etc., and ignoring Jesus' offer of Eternal Life (see John 3:16). So for now you have your own FREE WILL to do as you please. Choose wisely. No God, no Satan. One can't exist without the other. Yes, both exist. And so do demons. We see God in some people AND the Devil - THAT much is clear even to an Un-Believer. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-25   9:57:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: NewsJunky, Logsplitter (#28) I guess God doesn't think this would be as interesting a place without ole Satan here to mix things up a little. Will you pass The Almighty's test and humble yourself? Or succumb to your nature and the lies of Satan? The REALLY "interesting" place will be God's Heaven - and its unimaginable glory. The OTHER place - not so much. Imagine spending ALL Eternity with THE worst of human elements. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-25   10:02:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: Brian S, Logsplitter (#29) Ha. The last thing that needs to happen is for the gods to pull up this planets file for review. It won't be pretty when it happens. That's called 'Judgment Day'. When the Book of Life is opened, and the record of EVERY SINGLE moment of your life is recorded (we have ALL sinned) it won't be pretty. THE Big Question: Will *your* name be there? Or will Jesus Christ testify on your behalf? God will NOT allow sinners NOT cleansed by the Blood of Jesus (that's everyone, btw) into His Kingdom (barring special circumstances that ONLY He knows). Liberator  posted on  2012-06-25   10:08:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: Logsplitter (#31) Yeah, I s'pose a little diversity never hurt anyone. Only if you let it consume your soul. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-25   10:09:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: Logsplitter (#32) Btw, I believe in a creator. I'm just not sure of his religious affiliation. Close, but NO cigar come Judgment Day. You may want to refine your belief and invest in the destination of your soul. Just sayin'... Liberator  posted on  2012-06-25   10:10:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: Liberator (#39) Don't forget to give him a tract. I'm sure he's interested after your ... ugh, blather. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-25   10:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: Liberator, Logsplitter (#35) So when is God going to do domething about this Satan person? Waiting...waiting...waiting... That depends on the nature of "doing something"... When Jesus Christ said "it is finished." As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   12:08:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: Biff Tannen, Liberator (#40) Don't forget to give him a tract. I'm sure he's interested after your ... ugh, blather. I see the tracts are getting under the skin a bit. Perhaps you would like to take it beyond a 23 page tract, Biff? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   12:20:53 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Logsplitter, Liberator (#27) No God, no Satan. One can't exist without the other. So when is God going to do domething about this Satan person? Waiting...waiting...waiting... "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist." www.youtube.com/watch? v=kl0H1EUQ_38 As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   13:41:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: SJN, Biff Tannen, Liberator (#1) "Our calling as the church is to preach the gospel. However, the call to preach the gospel is like a two-sided coin. One aspect of preaching the gospel is sharing the Word and promises of God with both the lost and the found. But on the other side of the coin, preaching the gospel also means to keep the Word for the world. As the Bible encourages us: "Watch your life and doctrine closely" (1 Timothy 4:16). "Be ready always to give an answer" (1 Peter 3:15; KJV). "Rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15; KJV). Christ did not intend for us to have only one side of the coin or the other. They are two different aspects of the same call. Christ wants us to both share the Word and keep the Word so that both we and our hearers be saved." SJN: Amen Sister, says it all. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   13:48:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: mcgowanjm, SJN, A K A Stone (#16) You keep your holy roller ziofundy bible cartoons off my thread and I'll stauy away from yours.... And unless and until you do....well....here I am..... And just like that you disappear!!! You were given a padded room by Stonie for a reason. Enjoy your silence: As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   14:00:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: whyofcourse (#19) Just to get confirmation based on your post...are you a preterist? If you are, because Chuck Coty is, then you should really put up some actual quotes from Scofield that show how he is a zionist or encouraged zionism. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   14:14:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: Liberator (#36) Imagine spending ALL Eternity with THE worst of human elements. I'm in Mexifornia - I'm already there. Serenissima Venezia  posted on  2012-06-25   14:26:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: Liberator, Logsplitter, Redleghunter (#35) Do you mean eliminate Satan? That'll be after the Second Coming....Until then, the Evil of Satan is becoming increasingly stronger during his last days (which is upon us).... For now Satan is given a free shot at whispering in your ear about sinning, reed, being your own god, etc., and ignoring Jesus' offer of Eternal Life (see John 3:16). So for now you have your own FREE WILL to do as you please. Choose wisely. Beautifully put. We have free will exactly so we can determine our own paths. Even in the midst of evil, some people have acted righteously and nobly. (Think Hitler and people hiding/helping Jews at their own risk). Serenissima Venezia  posted on  2012-06-25   14:28:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: SJN (#20) I am more interested in Christians who have either misunderstood the clear scripture on just what Israel is/means, or have purposefully warped what the Bible has to say. So many Christians have bought in to the Israel propaganda and seem unwilling to look at what the Gospel actually says. (Yes, the fallout of such misunderstanding is politically clear). Can't argue with your statements. What is interesting is men like Scofield and Ironside wrote their books well before Israel became a nation again. Not one of the dispensational writers equate the current nation of Israel to the prophetic Israel after the second Coming of Christ. Gentlemen like Scofield, Ironside and Ryrie are used as "striking posts" for preterists who do not believe in a physical second Coming of Christ and a physical Kingdom on earth for 1000 years as mentioned in Revelation. They believe all has been fulfilled. Some preterists believe there will be a Second Coming but it will not be like Revelation outlines. Some believe along with the postmillennials that the Second Coming is real but there is no 1000 years of Christ's reign on earth. In both cases I see more of a straying from the Bible than they claim of the premillennials. At the two extremes I see major issues. One is given over to detailed timelines that many take as "certain." On the flip side the other group thinks all prophecy is fulfilled to include Revelation or discard Revelation. Like you, I try to keep it simple and look at what HAS BEEN revealed and not try to go off on tangents that are not there. In the end all this prophecy sniping has accomplished one thing. Dividing the Body of Christ. To the point where one side calls the other the "h" word and end fellowship. Just the "thing" the adversary wants to see. If you are interested, John MacArthur has a sermon on the future of Israel at this link: www.gty.o rg/Downloads/PDF...thur_on_future_israel.pdf MacArthur is the most neutral figure on the debate that I have come across. If you do read the link, let me know what you think. And if I seemed slippery in the above paragraphs I will state clearly. I do believe there will be a physical Reign of Jesus Christ on earth for 1000 years before the Great White Throne Judgment. And this is why: Revelation 19 New King James Version (NKJV) 19 After these things I heard[a] a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord [b] our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both[c] small and great!” 6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the[d] Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[g] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[h] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[i] and slave, both small and great.” 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. Revelation Chapter 20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.(NKJV) As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   14:46:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: SJN, whyofcourse (#21) I'll listen to more of this video later. I only caught a little bit of it for now. But yes, clearly Dispensationalism is contrary to various clear and explicit Bible statements and based on misinterpretations of several Bible prophecies (mostly in the Old Testament). Could not get the vid to work but will try again. I guess my point is, it is nice to view a video hit piece without actually reading the works of dispensationalists. I have read the works of Scofield, Ironside and Ryrie. If someone would like to point out just what portions of Scriptures they got wrong, I can comment. I see too often hit pieces try to tell the story with innuendo from one side. I also challenge anyone to produce something that shows a traditional dispensationalist has departed from Biblical christology and soteriology. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   14:56:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: redleghunter, Liberator, SJN (#44) Our calling as the church is to preach the gospel. However, the call to preach the gospel is like a two-sided coin. One aspect of preaching the gospel is sharing the Word and promises of God with both the lost and the found. But on the other side of the coin, preaching the gospel also means to keep the Word for the world. As the Bible encourages us: "Watch your life and doctrine closely" (1 Timothy 4:16). "Be ready always to give an answer" (1 Peter 3:15; KJV). "Rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15; KJV). Christ did not intend for us to have only one side of the coin or the other. They are two different aspects of the same call. Christ wants us to both share the Word and keep the Word so that both we and our hearers be saved." SJN: Amen Sister, says it all. It is my understanding that you do not believe women are to be telling (teaching or preaching) men anything. Given this, I find your comment as referred above to SJN's posting that I've bolded in the quoted material. Am I incorrect in my understanding? If you desire, I will tell you where I received my 'undertanding' from. rowdee  posted on  2012-06-25   15:02:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: mcgowanjm, Liberator (#33) Given I won't repost in the quote box your profanity, please note the post I respond to. Mr. Jim you have to make up your mind. Are you serious about blaming God when in another breath you tell us He does not exist and that gaia is your god? Then is gaia to blame and what kind of gaia is it if it let things get out of control? Your entire persona is a huge contradiction. What is evident is anger at the sad state of worldly affairs. For that you get no argument. Where we part company is with the Solution. You have anger towards the awful things going on in the world and project that anger towards those who offer the Gospel, which IS THE ANSWER. But you reject that Message because you choose to live by the same standards of life of which is the world you hate. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   15:04:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: rowdee (#51) It is my understanding that you do not believe women are to be telling (teaching or preaching) men anything. Given this, I find your comment as referred above to SJN's posting that I've bolded in the quoted material. Am I incorrect in my understanding? If you desire, I will tell you where I received my 'undertanding' from. This is a Bible study thread. I showed agreement with her quote about presenting the Gospel. SJN is not preaching or telling to me what we both already know. It was brotherly encouragement for posting a piece on the Great Commission. And yes, rowdee we receive our understanding from God through His Holy Word and His Holy Spirit. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   15:11:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: redleghunter (#53) I fully understand this thread as being a Bible Study, and I think it is great. What I was attempting to point out was that SJN's article pointed to the Gospel being spread worldwide....and you specifically noted to her what she had posted 'says it all'. It couldn't say it all if there are only certain classes of people who could do such spreading of God's Word. Hence, the bringing of women into the issue of spreading the Word. While you apparently know one another, there are many who will just read and be silent as they attempt to learn more. SJN is evangelizing, spreading the word, even if they are commentaries written by others--she surely believes in the doctrines, etc. Heaven knows how badly this old world needs His words spread. Sorry if you thought I was attempting to subvert the thread. rowdee  posted on  2012-06-25   15:35:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: rowdee, SJN, GarySpFc, Liberator (#54) While you apparently know one another, there are many who will just read and be silent as they attempt to learn more. SJN is evangelizing, spreading the word, even if they are commentaries written by others--she surely believes in the doctrines, etc. Heaven knows how badly this old world needs His words spread. Sorry if you thought I was attempting to subvert the thread. Rowdee, you are not subverting the thread, and I do know clearly your intent on bringing up the issue. You are correct in a sense that over the past year or so SJN, me and others (here and at LP) have asked for prayers for various illnesses, and family members and have, as much as you can in "posting land", formed a fellowship of prayer and sharing Scriptures. I do not "pretend" to be a pastor and don't think SJN is seeing herself as at the pulpit preaching to men in the congregation. I wish you could have been here a few months ago when there was a person who tried doing this. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   15:49:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: Liberator, Logsplitter (#36) the lies of Satan? How exactly do you know what are the lies of Satan? He doesn't exactly go around and give press conferences to publicize his activities. NewsJunky  posted on  2012-06-25   17:09:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: NewsJunky (#56) How exactly do you know what are the lies of Satan? He doesn't exactly go around and give press conferences to publicize his activities. www.youtube.com/watch? v=kl0H1EUQ_38 As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-25   17:15:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: redleghunter (#57) lol Well that it about as clear as mud. NewsJunky  posted on  2012-06-25   17:21:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #59. To: redleghunter (#45) lol ; ))))) SJN  posted on  2012-06-25   20:14:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: redleghunter (#49) I try to keep it simple and look at what HAS BEEN revealed and not try to go off on tangents that are not there. In the end all this prophecy sniping has accomplished one thing. Dividing the Body of Christ. To the point where one side calls the other the "h" word and end fellowship. Just the "thing" the adversary wants to see. Absolutely! You nailed the problem that I was kind of trying to point out as well as trying to explain that Israel is not the nation that the Gospel speaks of as more often it means all Christian believers through out time and the whole world. That is the the "nation of believers" that is referred often to in the Gospel as Israel. SJN  posted on  2012-06-25   20:20:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: redleghunter (#49) And if I seemed slippery in the above paragraphs I will state clearly. I do believe there will be a physical Reign of Jesus Christ on earth for 1000 years before the Great White Throne Judgment. And this is why: Yes, I'm aware that you do believe that for the scripture that you posted, however; Revelation is a good example of a genre of writing known as "apocalyptic literature." Remember that God has employed different kinds of writings to convey his message to us: historical narrative, poetry, and predictive prophecy in addition to apocalytic (revelatory) prophecy. Each genre has its own characteristics and often takes some getting used to. Apocalyptic literature employs graphic dreams or visions along with vivid descriptions of unusual scenes or events that are often rather surreal and fantastic, giving the reader a sense of wonder in addition to pertinent information about coming events. The symbolic use of numbers and cyclical patterns of repeated information conveyed in changing images is also common. But, again, it takes some getting used to. Revelation draws on information previously given in earlier books of the Bible and kind of assumes that the reader is familiar with that earlier information. To read this 66th book of the Bible without a firm grasp on the content of the first 65 can prove problematic. Earlier apocalyptic books in the Old Testament like Daniel and Zechariah especially should be studied in this connection. I think you would find these reading materials very interesting on this subject: The commentary on Revelation by Professor Siegbert Becker (its title is A Distant Triumph Song) and another by Pastor Wayne Mueller (Part of the People's Bible series) are especially helpful. Don't forget to read the introductory material of those books. They will help you as you then proceed to work through the chapters of the book of Revelation itself. These volumes are available through Northwestern Publishing House. online.nph.net/ SJN  posted on  2012-06-25   20:27:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #62. To: rowdee (#51) (Edited) It is my understanding that you do not believe women are to be telling (teaching or preaching) men anything. Fundy's the World over. They're all the same. Every religion. mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-26   8:51:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #63. To: redleghunter (#52) Given I won't repost in the quote box your profanity, Why. You going to hell if you do? But shooting a child and hitting the woman holding it A-OK. It's war. Things happen. See any and every PTSD for details....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-26   8:54:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #64. To: redleghunter (#45) (Edited) You were given a padded room by Stonie for a reason. Enjoy your silence: /buwahahahahahahahahaha...8D And so WTF are you doin' comin' into said room? You and Libby one and the same? ;} And again: Anyone coming into my 'padded cell' with your bible Studies can expect me to come into yours....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-26   8:57:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #65. To: NewsJunky, Logsplitter, Redleghunter, Serenissima Venezia, SJN, Biff Tannen, mcgowanjm, A K A Stone, whyofcourse, sneakypete, arasina (#56) Please... THIS may be THE most important 47 minutes of your mortal life.....It's NOT the same ol'. Give this testimony and vivid descriptive "preview" of Hell a chance. Be patience and hear this man out. NO profit. NO motive. NO pontification. Just a man's nightmare for 23 minutes.... Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   10:26:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #66. To: Liberator (#65) Post all the youtubes you want. People look at what you're like and decide if they want to belong. Bzzzzzzzzt. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-26   10:29:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: redleghunter, Logsplitter, all (#43) (Edited) "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist." And Plan 'B': "You are your OWN "God!" Plan 'C': "If God is so great, why does he allow you to suffer and die"? Why can't he just turn this wretched earth in 'Club Paradise'? And make everyone nice?" Plan 'D': "Do What Thou Wilt" - Entertainment icons' newest self-commandment. Look for it out there. It means, "What *I* say is "right" IS "right" (actually this is a corollary to Plan 'B', and contrived personal divinity, isn't it? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   10:36:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #68. To: Biff Tannen (#66) People look at what you're like and decide if they want to belong. Bzzzzzzzzt. I'm not a preacher, nor a pastor, nor a priest, nor a "leader" of any religion. I am a sinner, just like you Biffy. Let those with a curiosity and wisdom find a way to Redemption. If anyone rejects viewing this video because *I* condone it only spites themselves. Take me out of the equation. When we leave this mortal world and face Judgment, I doubt even you will be saying, "Lord...if Liberator is in your House, I don't want any part of it." Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   10:44:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #69. To: Liberator (#68) Scaring people into heaven isn't viable. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-26   10:50:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #70. To: Biff Tannen (#69) Scaring people into heaven isn't viable. Maybe scaring people out of hell IS. I've met Satan and his demons. He's real. They're real. I know God. He's real. And just as the man whose testimony is heard, the reality of a spiritual realm exists and transcends this waking-state mortal dimension. ONE of them is a nightmare. FOREVER. But go on - ridicule it... ITMT, we are all responsible for the destination of our soul in the Hereafter. Tonight MAY BE the last day some can actually make a decision. Death sometimes comes like a thief in the night. When all is said and done and the Book of Life is opened, will your name appear in it? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   11:21:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #71. To: SJN (#60) Absolutely! You nailed the problem that I was kind of trying to point out as well as trying to explain that Israel is not the nation that the Gospel speaks of as more often it means all Christian believers through out time and the whole world. That is the the "nation of believers" that is referred often to in the Gospel as Israel. As in the article link I posted to you, I agree with MacArthur that God's promise to the nation of Israel is still valid. Where I say "however" is important. However, the remnant we will see in end times will be a remnant that recognizes and accepts Jesus Christ as Messiah and King---by Grace through Faith. No separate "deal" as some may claim. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-26   11:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #72. To: Liberator (#70) I didn't ridicule anything, except you I suppose. All you've got is spouting boilerplate you heard somewhere else. That ain't going to cut it. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-26   11:39:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #73. To: Biff Tannen (#72) I didn't ridicule anything, except you I suppose. Naah, you ridicule most sanity and righteousness. All you've got is spouting boilerplate you heard somewhere else. That ain't going to cut it. Your heart, your soul, Biff - not mine. Hopefully someone else may penetrate your wall. All differences aside - we admittedly despise each other - believe it or not I'm pulling for you to see the light. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   11:49:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #74. To: Liberator, NewsJunky, Logsplitter, Redleghunter, Serenissima Venezia, SJN, Biff Tannen, mcgowanjm, A K A Stone, sneakypete, aras (#65) NWO Noahide Law means DECAPITATION! Bush made this a LAW IN OUR COUNTRY!!! CHRISTIANS, and any other person who doesn't go along with the NWO is REALLY IN TROUBLE!! INTERNATIONAL LAW The Congress of the United States of America has declared that the seven universal laws commanded to Noah (the Noahide laws) are "the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization". U.S. Congress, H.J. Resolution 104, Public Law 102-14, 1991. This sets the Noahide Laws as the primary basis for International Law, (read “New World Order”) to which all American law MUST conform. This unique public law remarkably singles out one particular Jewish group for special honour, saying that they embody the principles of these Noahide Laws. This group is the ultra-orthodox Lubavitch Movement, of the loony Habad Hasids Jews. Al Gore Letter 10 01-Nov-2000 Education Day USA: “Upon seizing the reins of government, the new Noachide leaders will move quickly to implement a full agenda of reform... Full support will be given to Israeli forces to reinvade PLO-controlled areas, with military assistance offered where necessary. Jewish courts will be granted full legal sovereignty over Jewish citizens within each country, who will no longer be subject to the authority of gentile courts. The pre-existing Noachide judges and courts will replace the existing court system of each country, and the legal code will be drastically rewritten to conform to halacha...And law and order will be fully restored through the establishment of internal security measures, again in accordance with Torah law.” A nation governed by wisdom and moral law sounds reasonable, but it is the identical goal as expressed by the Orders of Freemasonry. In “The History of Freemasonry,” High Adept and Prince of Masonry - Albert Mackey, provides the sequel to the Egyptian/Cabbalist accounts of Noah. "After Noah’s emergence from the Ark, he is said to have promulgated seven precepts for the government of the new race of men of whom he was to be the progenitor... [1] To do justice [2] Worship God [3] Abstain from idolatry [4] Preserve chastity [5] Do not commit murder [6] Do not steal [7] Do not eat blood." Mackey further identifies Noah as the originator of a “mystery religion’ known as the “Arkite Worship.” "The influence of Noah on Masonic doctrine is to be traced to the almost universal belief of men in the events of the deluge, and a consequent establishment in many nations of a system of religion known to ethnologists as the ‘Arkite Worship’... Hence arose that system known to modern scholars as the 'Arkite Worship' in whose rites and mysteries, which were eventually communicated to the other ancient religions. There were always some allusions to the events of the Noahic flood - to the Ark, as the WOMB OF NATURE, to the eight persons saved in it, as the Ogdoad or sacred number - and to the renovation of the world, as symbolizing the passage from death to immortal life." These seven laws, to be implemented under the NWO, allows BEHEADING as THE form of capital punishment, principally for what the TALMUD regards as “Idolaters” and “Blasphemers,” or in reality - “Christ honouring” Christians. “For theological reasons, mostly rooted in ignorance, Christianity as a religion is classed by rabbinical teaching as idolatry. This is based on a crude interpretation of the Christian doctrines on the Trinity and Incarnation. All the Christian emblems and pictorial representations are regarded as 'idols' - even by those Jews who literally worship scrolls, stones or personal belongings of 'Holy Men'." -- 'Jewish History, Jewish Religion' by Professor Israel Shahak “All this, and much more like it, proves beyond a doubt that when the Rabbis speak of the idols of the Gentiles among whom they lived at that time, when no idols were worshipped, they clearly meant the Christian "idol," namely, the image of Christ on the crucifix and the Holy Communion.” -- “The Talmud Judaism's holiest book Unmasked” The Secret Jewish Rabbinical Teachings Concerning Christians By Rev. I. B. Pranaitis WHAT ARE THESE LAWS? The “Encyclopedia Americana” gives its explanation of the Noahide Laws, "Throughout the ages, scholars have viewed the Noahide Laws as a link between Judaism and Christianity, as universal norms of ethical conduct, as a basic concept of international law, or as a guarantee of fundamental human rights for all." This explanation leads one to believe that everyone on earth will be bound by these seven laws. However, reliable reports from Jewish sources are that the Jew who lives according to the “Torah,” (certainly not the written Torah given to Moses, but rather the occult/Pharisaic traditions adopted from the mystery religions of ancient Babylon) is exempt. In other words, these seven Laws were only meant for non-Jews and are to be a direct substitute for the Biblical Ten Commandments. "It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." Talmud: Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5 Now does that sound like their “Torah” is the same as our Biblical Old Testament – I think not! So let’s briefly list these seven NOAHIDE LAWS : 1. Thou shalt not engage in idol worship. 2. Thou shalt not blaspheme God. 3. Thou shalt not shed innocent blood of a human nor foetus nor ailing person who has a limited time to live. 4. Thou shalt not engage in bestial, incestuous, adulterous, or homosexual relations nor commit...rape. 5. Thou shalt not steal. 6. Thou shalt establish laws and courts of law to administer these laws 7. Thou shalt not be cruel to animals. The Jews wish to commence with the U.S. to be ruled by the Noahide Laws, (which at first glance seem to be something harmless and even moral) together with whatever is intrinsically implied in them. Seeing that “the devil is always in the details,” looking a little closer we can see that the real goal is to have the non-Jewish population of the United States totally subjected and ruled by judicial enactments that are exclusively managed, interpreted and manipulated by orthodox rabbis. The penalty for violation is clearly spelled out on page 1192 of the “Encyclopedia Judaica,”: " violation of any one of the seven laws subjects the Noahide to capital punishment by DECAPITATION." Rather severe wouldn’t you think? So, if only one person steps forward to merely accuse any non-Jew of violating any one of these seven laws, that testimony alone – irrespective of the proven truth of the allegation, this would be enough for the sentence of death. Notice how Deuteronomy 17:6, clearly requires the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses before one who deserves death can be executed. In fact, the last sentence of verse 6 specifically states: “At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall NOT be put to death.” WHO JUDGES THE JUDGES? These evil, satanic ghouls masquerading as the “chosen people,” will be represented by pompous, pious looking, bearded Rebbe - “sages,” and will possibly be the judges who cast the ultimate caesarean thumbs down vote for the sacrificial deaths of all tried and true believers that will have been Sealed as righteous by the Most High. "Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless, (non-Jews) is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." (Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772) It will be simply ancient ritualistic murder that has existed down though the centuries that may culminate in our day, in rivers of blood. The Sacrament of Christian Communion will be transformed from wine, the symbolic blood of Jesus, to the real blood Of true believers, that will be freely shed under this new, Luciferic Theocracy! The Jews have always been idolaters whose principal god, Moloch, constantly demanded blood sacrifices, a FACT of which has been proven time and time again throughout history. Always remember as Biblical fact, that the Jewish establishment succeeded in the illegal trial and subsequent killing and blood-letting of Jesus Christ on the primary basis that He blasphemed God, which is Noahide Law number 2 - “Thou shalt not blaspheme God.” “Extermination of a Christian is a necessary sacrifice to God.” Zohar (II, 43a) Make no mistake, these remarkable and sickening quotes from the Talmud (Soncino Edition) here and elsewhere, are quite genuine and gleaned from a large variety of reliable sources, (mostly Jewish) at the time of compilation. These are but a few of the hundreds of Talmudic passages that deal with the recommended treatment of Christians. The non-Jewish world has suffered unbelievably and endured Zionist world terror for nearly a century, beginning with Jewish Bolshevism and Stalinism. Zionism and the World Jewish Congress have initiated two devastating World Wars, leaving 54 million people killed, with countless millions wounded in spirit soul and body. THIS is the reality of the Jewish Talmudic “legacy,” and there is much more to come. THE REAL GOALS Here, hidden behind a facade of phony, moral statutes and deliberately sympathetic phrases, are the real goals of the Noahide Laws: 1. The replacement of the entire Old Testament and the total rejection of the NT 2. The rejection of the atonement of Christ upon the Cross 3. The rejection of the plan of salvation according to Acts 2:38 4. The spying on one another to supply the one eyewitness needed to execute the death penalty 5. The necessity of keeping the other 66 “lesser known laws” 6. Circumcision of all males 7. Eating only kosher foods 8. Forbidding holding religious services of any type in a place that is not an approved assembly place for Noahides 9. The death penalty for anyone, (Christians being the main target) that claims that God has spoken through them by way of teaching, preaching or writing, that is in any way contradictory to the establishment “worship system.” "The Christians are always singing about the blood. Let us give them enough of it! Let us cut their throats and drag them over the altar! And let them drown in their own blood! I dream of the day when the last priest is strangled on the guts of the last preacher." (Chairman of the American Communist Party, Gus Hall). It will be a serious crime to claim to be a Prophet, Preacher, or Pastor, to whom the Antichrist authorities have not issued a certificate of approval, and it will be a death penalty offence to oppose in any way this new “religion.” By opposition - means to speak against any Jewish Priest, any Jewish Rabbi, any Noahide Minister, any Noahide or Jewish Temple or place of worship, or oppose any doctrine that only the “Rebbe Adepts” teach or advocate. So under the guise of Pharisaic Jewry, the modern Cabbalists are cunningly taking us all back to Egypt, and to the ancient house of bondage from whence we came. How then, could any Christian ever support the diabolical plotting behind the precepts of the Noahide laws, to aid in the destruction of the New Testament - the Church, and be complicit in the killing of the precious and faithful Saints of God? Antichrists are even now arising from all denominations denying that salvation is through Jesus Christ alone. This is that spirit of Antichrist that will join forces with Jewish rabbis together with other “Jewish-Gentile” groups to complete their total destruction of Christianity. First they will accuse those of being anti-Semites for rejecting Pharisee-Talmudic Judaism, then anti-Semitic for rejecting that the Laws of Moses are still in effect for Jews and Gentiles alike for salvation, and then anti-Semitic yet again because we dare write anything that opposes/exposes their covert agenda. "All Jews are good by nature, all non-Jews are evil by nature. The Jews are creation's crowning glory, the non-Jews are the scum of the earth." This quote is typical of the Talmudic-Jewish philosophy that saturates the thinking of Jews such as Rabbi Shneur Zalman, one of the leading “Halacha” scholars in Jewish history according to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, March 11, 1994, page 14. What will we see in the End Times? We will see a revival of Judaised law-keeping and a rejection of the New Covenant by the blinded Judeo-Christian sheeple. If you observe any person saying that the New Testament is not the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34, you have just met an antichrist - a Concision, a person who has fallen from grace and thus severed themselves from Christ. These cannot be saved, or remain so once they deny the fulfilment by the Messiah of the New Covenant. These will deny the Lord's Passover Memorial Cup, with all that it symbolises and thereby crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and thereby count his blood as an unholy thing. The true blasphemy against the Holy Spirit! WHAT WILL IT BE LIKE? My research suggests that this One-World Government, (together with a single monetary system – possibly the Euro) will consist of permanent non-elected oligarchist-elites who are self-chosen from among their numbers in the form of a feudal system similar to that of the Middle Ages. In this One-World entity, there will be no middle class - only rulers and servants. All laws will be uniform under a legal system of world courts practicing the same unified code of Noahide laws. These laws will be enforced by a One-World Government police force and a global, multicultural military. The system will be on the basis of a welfare state, where only those who are obedient and subservient to the One World Government will be rewarded with the means to live, via the mark of the beast. Those who are rebellious and refuse the mark, will simply be declared outlaws, starved to death and/or killed. Privately owned firearms or weapons of any kind will be prohibited. National pride and racial identity shall be gradually stamped out and in the transition phase, any mention of one's racial origin shall be subject to severe penalties. Only one religion will be allowed in the form of Talmudic Judaism, structured and administered by Lubavitcher rebbes and others that have bought the lie. All tried and true Christ honouring believers will be regarded as (Noahide) lawbreakers and will risk decapitation under this vehemently anti-Christ, beast system. As an interesting aside, State of Georgia lawmaker Doug Teper (Democrat) has proposed a bill to replace the state's electric chair with the guillotine. Teper's reasoning? It would allow for death-row inmates as potential organ donors. He says, the "Blade makes a clean cut and leaves vital organs intact." Yeah, right! "For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of THE JEWS: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, AND THEIR OWN PROPHETS, AND HAVE PERSECUTED US; AND THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, AND ARE CONTRARY TO ALL MEN." (I Thessalonians 2:14-15) SOURCE http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message547192/pg1 whyofcourse  posted on  2012-06-26   11:54:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #75. To: whyofcourse (#74) It's no secret that many Israelis and even a disturbingly sizable number of American Jews dislike and resent Christians...The opposite can also be claimed in their (American Jews') defense. I do know of Christian groups who while visiting Israel were told *specifically* to low-key their faith and "behave". Speaking to Jews about Jesus is blasphemous IN ISRAEL. Over at LP, there are a few American Jews (including its owner) who readily admitted that non-Jew/infidels (aka Christians) are regarded as untermenchen and looked down upon. Of course the irony was missed on these bigots. That said, I don't mean to besmirch most American Jews as the case in this regard. But had these elitist Israelis and Jews their way, would treat us much like the Nazis treated Jews during WWII. But don't expect this revelation to get much publicity. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   12:12:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #76. To: Liberator (#75) YOU SAID 'A MOUTH FULL'. whyofcourse  posted on  2012-06-26   12:15:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #77. To: SJN (#61) Yes, I'm aware that you do believe that for the scripture that you posted, however; Revelation is a good example of a genre of writing known as "apocalyptic literature." Remember that God has employed different kinds of writings to convey his message to us: historical narrative, poetry, and predictive prophecy in addition to apocalytic (revelatory) prophecy. Each genre has its own characteristics and often takes some getting used to. Apocalyptic literature employs graphic dreams or visions along with vivid descriptions of unusual scenes or events that are often rather surreal and fantastic, giving the reader a sense of wonder in addition to pertinent information about coming events. The symbolic use of numbers and cyclical patterns of repeated information conveyed in changing images is also common. But, again, it takes some getting used to. I take Revelation the same as all Scriptures. Where it is plain, you take it plainly. There are, IMHO, three approaches to Revelation and the yet unfulfulled prophecies of the OT. First approach is to take the stand that all of Revelation has been fulfilled, second is that some or most has been fulfilled, and third Revelation is yet to come. Again, IMHO, we are not forbidden to study prophecy in the Bible (those who read will be blessed), but are to be VERY cautious as to being dogmatic (saying we are certain) about the things that are not certain or clear. It is certain Christ will Come Again and to me the events of Revelation 19-22 are yet future and not fulfilled. "The How" it all happens we mortals will never figure out and I think Jesus Christ made that clear to us in Matthew 24-25. He said to look for the signs of His Coming, to be ready/prepared and don't be caught off guard. Paul as well in his Epistles gives us supporting words. I think whether one adheres to replacement theology or dispensationalism, we must be careful in promoting that 'we know' how it will unfold, other than what we know to be certain, plainly revealed in the Bible. During the time of Irenaeus, there was some speculation with regards to the identity of the anti- christ. Irenaeus quickly but lovingly told those who were trying to equate numbers with a person to focus on the Great Commission and in the rightful words of the Apostles to watch and be ready. I got the impression he meant we were to live our lives as citizens of the Kingdom and follow the commands of Jesus Christ and do so with vigor and love until we "absent from the body but present with the Lord." With all that, I also have come to another conclusion as a student of God's Word over the years. All is for the Glory of God and we only understand what He has revealed to us. What is clear to me is with God a Promise is a Promise and He is not finished with Israel. And when I mention God is not finished with Israel I will clearly state that I am not promoting the current government structure of secular Israel as the fulfillment of the Promise. Perhaps Israel being a nation now is a forerunner as an identity for things future, but the current Israel still rejects Christ the King and Messiah. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-26   12:44:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #78. To: mcgowanjm (#63) Given I won't repost in the quote box your profanity, Why. You going to hell if you do? But shooting a child and hitting the woman holding it A-OK. It's war. Things happen. See any and every PTSD for details....;} Not so fast. You did not respond to the remainder of my post. Here it is again for you to see and comment on: Mr. Jim you have to make up your mind. Are you serious about blaming God when in another breath you tell us He does not exist and that gaia is your god? Then is gaia to blame and what kind of gaia is it if it let things get out of control? Your entire persona is a huge contradiction. What is evident is anger at the sad state of worldly affairs. For that you get no argument. Where we part company is with the Solution. You have anger towards the awful things going on in the world and project that anger towards those who offer the Gospel, which IS THE ANSWER. But you reject that Message because you choose to live by the same standards of life of which is the world you hate. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-26   12:54:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #79. To: Liberator (#67) And Plan 'B': "You are your OWN "God!" Plan 'C': "If God is so great, why does he allow you to suffer and die"? Why can't he just turn this wretched earth in 'Club Paradise'? And make everyone nice?" Plan 'D': "Do What Thou Wilt" - Entertainment icons' newest self-commandment. Look for it out there. It means, "What *I* say is "right" IS "right" (actually this is a corollary to Plan 'B', and contrived personal divinity, isn't it? Good laydown. You missed one that may be related to Plan "C". That even if God came down from Heaven and handed a personal invitation to an atheist, he/she would still reject Him. But then again, that happened about 2000 years ago. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-26   13:01:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #80. To: whyofcourse, Liberator, NewsJunky, Logsplitter, Serenissima Venezia, SJN, Biff Tannen, mcgowanjm, A K A Stone, sneakypete, aras (#74) My research suggests that this One-World Government, (together with a single monetary system – possibly the Euro) will consist of permanent non-elected oligarchist-elites who are self-chosen from among their numbers in the form of a feudal system similar to that of the Middle Ages. In this One-World entity, there will be no middle class - only rulers and servants. All laws will be uniform under a legal system of world courts practicing the same unified code of Noahide laws. These laws will be enforced by a One-World Government police force and a global, multicultural military. The system will be on the basis of a welfare state, where only those who are obedient and subservient to the One World Government will be rewarded with the means to live, via the mark of the beast. Those who are rebellious and refuse the mark, will simply be declared outlaws, starved to death and/or killed. Privately owned firearms or weapons of any kind will be prohibited. National pride and racial identity shall be gradually stamped out and in the transition phase, any mention of one's racial origin shall be subject to severe penalties. Only one religion will be allowed in the form of Talmudic Judaism, structured and administered by Lubavitcher rebbes and others that have bought the lie. All tried and true Christ honouring believers will be regarded as (Noahide) lawbreakers and will risk decapitation under this vehemently anti-Christ, beast system. As an interesting aside, State of Georgia lawmaker Doug Teper (Democrat) has proposed a bill to replace the state's electric chair with the guillotine. Teper's reasoning? It would allow for death-row inmates as potential organ donors. He says, the "Blade makes a clean cut and leaves vital organs intact." Yeah, right! Whew! And folks got a bit wound up because I posted a few Jack Chick cartoon tracts:) I ask again, what does any of this have to do with dispensationalism and believing Revelation is yet future? I am getting the picture a bit I think from your posts. This is all about Jews and not liking them. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-26   13:09:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #81. To: Biff Tannen (#66) Good afternoon Biff, hope all is well today. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-26   13:15:19 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #82. To: Liberator (#70) I've met Satan and his demons. He's real. Oh you have, have ya? Where did you "meet" them? NewsJunky  posted on  2012-06-26   14:20:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #83. To: redleghunter (#79) You missed one that may be related to Plan "C". That even if God came down from Heaven and handed a personal invitation to an atheist, he/she would still reject Him. But then again, that happened about 2000 years ago. You're right...Go figure. Jesus literally can't GIVE his personal Golden Invite away whether 2000 years ago or today (maybe if he tossed in a FREE six-pack of Bud and pizza he MIGHT recruit a few more takers.) *^D Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   14:21:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #84. To: NewsJunky (#82) Oh you have, have ya? Where did you "meet" them? In my Dream State. Do you find that impossible? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   14:22:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #85. To: Liberator (#84) (Edited) Dream State.. Do you find that impossible? ROTFL Yes.. NewsJunky  posted on  2012-06-26   14:23:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #86. To: redleghunter, mcgowanjm (#78) Not so fast. You did not respond to the remainder of my post. Here it is again for you to see and comment on: Mr. Jim you have to make up your mind. Are you serious about blaming God when in another breath you tell us He does not exist and that gaia is your god? Then is gaia to blame and what kind of gaia is it if it let things get out of control? Your entire persona is a huge contradiction. What is evident is anger at the sad state of worldly affairs. For that you get no argument. Where we part company is with the Solution. You have anger towards the awful things going on in the world and project that anger towards those who offer the Gospel, which IS THE ANSWER. But you reject that Message because you choose to live by the same standards of life of which is the world you hate. Nail meet hammer, Jimmy. So who's to blame? Gaia? Or the God you believe does NOT exist? You say you're not a hater, but hate and blame just the same. WHAT is the Solution of an anti-Christian Commie/Anarchist whose "Mother Earth"'s history is rife with "murdering" ALL living things (since nothing lives forever)? You should have seen the lettuce holocaust the other day as I decapitated several heads. Took out a few flies and spiders too. Oh...the humanity!! Are you praying to the Sun? The Volcanoes? The Oceans? The Dirt? Or is your plan a Blood Sacrifice of Mankind (but only certain ones)? How do you stop this mad woman, Mother Earth??!? She...she...HATES US!! Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   14:34:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #87. To: NewsJunky (#85) Dream State.. Do you find that impossible? ROTFL Yes.. Of course you would. But at best, all you *could* claim is an "improbability" or an agnosticism of my claim. When you dream, Junky, are you sure of your "reality"? That your dream IS a "dream"? IF you fall asleep....and dream...How will you ever know if you've been relieved of your mortal being, escaped your Waking State, and actually died? Or will you depend on CNN to somehow inform you within the grave? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   14:43:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #88. To: Liberator (#86) How do you stop this mad woman, Mother Earth??!? She...she...HATES US!! Yes, I ask that question of the "noble savage" as he eats his neighbor with a dash of henri sauce. If you have the time, the link below will bring you to a Francis Schaeffer book review that points out the futile effort of mankind trying to find their own solutions to "being." www.tonybartolucci.co m/reading/schaeffer.pdf As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-26   15:04:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #89. To: redleghunter, Liberator, NewsJunky, Logsplitter, Serenissima Venezia, SJN, Biff Tannen, mcgowanjm, A K A Stone, sneakypete, aras (#80) Guillotine Death by Noahide Laws PASSED BY CONGRESS-1991 Posted on May 7, 2011 by Daniel Leach Few Americans have ever heard of the Guillotine Death by Noahide Laws that PASSED CONGRESS in 1991 and signed into Law and was Approved March 20, 1991 by President of the U. S., George Bush Sr.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoQU-KS_6eY   To keep this simple the Laws that are now apart of the American Legal system say that if your have any other faith than the Talmud’s counterfeit Kaballa  or break any of the 7 Noahide Laws and one person says that you have done so, you can have your head cut off!  Taken from www.AmericanHolocaustComing.blogspot.com “Because the NOAHIDE LAWS forbid the free exercise of religion (especially Christianity) in America, and respect on religion over another (JUDAISM over all other religions) they clearly violate the First Amendment Establishment Clause. THEREFORE, as long as the US CONSTITUION remains in force, they CANNOT ACTIVATE THE NOAHIDE LAWS AND ENFORCE THEM IN AMERICA AT THIS TIME! However, WHEN the CONSTITUTION IS ABOLISHED through the declaration of NATIONAL EMERGENCY, MARTIAL LAW, THEN you will see the NOAHIDE LAWS activated and the enforcers (which are the military, foreign and domestic) and their guillotines brought out in full force. THEN the NWO forces and their Jewish supporters will activate the NOAHIDE LAWS, will round up Christians ALREADY ON THE SECRET GOVERNMENT LISTS, and demand that they either RENOUNCE THIER FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, and conform to their NOAHIDE LAWS, or BE EXECUTED with the guillotines. It is as simple as that and already spoken of prophetically in Revelation 20:4. The NOAHIDE LAWS legislation was written by the Orthodox Jewish organization based in Brooklyn, NY. They presented them to George Bush SR (Mr. NWO himself) to sign into leglslation. Mr. “ILLUMINATI BLOODLINE” Bush knew exactly what he was doing, knew WHO would be primarily targeted, and what would happen to Christians in America as a result. ALL NWO adherents, Jew and Gentile alike, hate the Christians in America (and worldwide) with a passion, as former adherents admitted to me personally. They KNOW the Christians in the America are the GREATEST DETERRENT to their realization of a NEW WORLD ORDER agenda! These Noahide Laws state that Gentiles/Christians must conform to their 7 NOAHIDE LAWS supposed given by God to Noah for GENTILES after the flood. (This is stated nowhere in the Bible, however.) The penalty for breaking THREE of these NOAHIDE LAWS is CAPITOL PUNISHMENT by BEHEADING. Two of those Jewish laws attack Fundamental Christian beliefs directly: Prohibition against “BLASPEHMY AGAINST GOD” and “IDOLATRY.” Judaism teaches that Christian faith in Jesus Christ VIOLATES BOTH. Jesus Christ was ordered EXECUTED by the Jewish Pharisees for declaring he WAS THE SON OF GOD after His arrest. They called His admission “BLASPHEMY” and sentenced Him to death. And now the Jews in America seek to use their Noahide Laws to discriminate against and finally execute CHRISTIANS for THEIR “blasphemy” of calling Jesus “The Son of God” and worshipping Him as GOD WITH US, “Emmanuel.” Jewish writers of this legislation even mandate CAPITOL PUNISHMENT BY BEHEADING for those who violate 3 of their 7 Noahide laws! This is FORCED RELIGIOUS CONVERSION AT THE THREAT OF DEATH! Is this a NEW INQUISITION and new DARK AGES coming to “AMERIKA”??? What if JEWS IN AMERICA were given the mandate to renounce their Judaism and CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY, or be BEHEADED!!! Can you imagine the public outcry then??? So WHERE is the American/Christian outrage and outcry in this hour? THIS LEGISLATION HAS ALREADY BEEN PASSED AND THE GUILLOTINES ARE HERE! OUR OWN MILITARY (and foreign also) are training even NOW to operate them on US under martial law! WHOSE tax dollars pay for their training? WHOSE tax dollars paid for the guillotines to be imported/manufactured? Americans should be outraged and in protest across the nation, especially in Washington DC, over the NOAHIDE LAWS and their total violation of everything America has ever stood for regarding religious freedoms! BUT BECAUSE OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND THE FIRST AMENDMENT ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE, they CANNOT activate the NOAHIDE LAWS IN AMERICA YET! AMERICANS HAVE BUT A SHORT TIME TO PROTEST AND DEMAND THE NOAHIDE LAWS BE RESCINDED AND ABOLISHED NOW! Otherwise, when MARTIAL LAW IS DECLARED,and the Constitution abolished, THEN you will witness with your own eyes the unveiling and public display of these modern military guillotines, and the US and foreign troops training (in FORT LEWIS, FORT BRAGG, FORT HOOD and elsewhere)to operate them on AMERICAN violaters of these outrageous, discriminatory and strictly Jewish religion-based laws. THEREFORE, THE JEWS WHO SUPPORT THE NOAHIDE LAWS AND ADVOCATE FORCED CONVERSION OF CHRISTIANS/GENTILES, CANNOT WAIT FOR MARTIAL LAW TO TRANSPIRE. For then and ONLY then can their NOAHIDE LAWS be fully activated in AMERICA. The enemies of the American Constitution and Christianity in America, and our religious and all other freedoms, cannot wait for the planned government black ops to take place, nullifying everything promised in the Constitution to us. So NOW you KNOW WHEN the NOAHIDE LAWS and the horrific modern military GUILLOTINES to enforce them will come into full force in America.” www.AmericanHolocaustComing.blogspot.com http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=124669; This Next article makes the Noahide laws sound so good.  But in reality the Noahide Laws are like Rat poison in Candy that will kill you deader than a door nail! These Video talk about the history and details of the Noahide Laws   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOWKMWrwBEI&playnext=1&list=PL1DAD8816DDF8E44C From http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=456&Parent=88 ” US President George W. Bush Discusses Road-Map to World Peace Based on Seven Universal Ben Noah Laws One thousand religious leaders and pastors gathered together with President George W. Bush and his staff from the White House Office of faith based and community initiatives. During the historical meeting the president and the representatives from different religions discussed methods to search for a better understanding between varied cultures and philosophies in order to improve the life of all people. Among the religious leaders was Rabbi Yakov Cohen who represented the worldwide Institute of Noahide Code, an organization dedicated to promote the Noahide Code of Seven UniversalNoah Laws. Rabbi Cohen presented the “Road-Map to World Peace”, explaining that theNoah Laws will unite all of mankind. The Seven Laws of Noahdate back to the time of Noah and is the oldest code of laws in existence. They precede the development of all faiths. Since these are universal laws that prohibit murder, cruelty to animals, sexual misconduct and other universal ethic values they are common and affect all mankind. These laws can be shared by all people from all walks of life. People need to be aware of the importance of moral and ethical behavior. The problems and challenges we encounter in society are obvious, but we need to educate people that there is a possible solution. Education promotes greater involvement, lack of education causes less involvement. Following a meeting with the president Rabbi Cohen said:The president was very supportive and responsive to the message we are trying to get across. He also added we are urging leaders to become more involved in the moral and ethical issues of our society. In the past moral and ethical values were passed on to children through family and tradition, but now more and more we need the involve schools and communities to get involved to compensate for the breakdown of family structure and traditional beliefs. People of influence should use their talent and skill in communication to educate and nurture the young generation to understand the time-tested values and ethics that have kept people together and societies healthy. If people were more conscious of a supreme G-d, mass crimes, atrocities and acts of terror would not happen. Rabbi Cohen who directs the Institute of Noahide Code (http://www.noahide.org) stated that the Jewish people were charged with the mission to educate mankind and be a light onto the nations bypromoting the observance of the Seven Bnei Noah Laws among all mankind. - We arepresently living through a unique and favorable moment in history. The information age and advanced breakthroughs in technology affords us the tremendous opportunity towidely communicate the knowledge and observance of these laws. – Rabbi Cohen said. Other religious leaders added that the religious tolerance of today and the trend towards greater democracy and freedom have created the perfect environment and provided awindow of opportunity for the global acceptance of this universal code. It is by adherence to these laws, which are in and of themselves an expression of Divine goodness, which all mankind could unite and be bound by a common moral responsibility to their Creator. When humanity is unified by its highest common denominator, genuine peace and harmony will flourish throughout the world. Despite the daunting challenge we must remember that a little light could dispel and illuminate a lot of darkness and the darkness will offer no resistance as it melts before the light.The obvious reason being that light is the substance while darkness is merely the void.”  http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=456&Parent=88 In addition to the FEMA camps, coffins, and FEMA death trains, the NWO are stockpiling GUILLOTINES to behead all those who do not conform to the Noahide Laws and image of the NWO beast system. SOURCE: http://antinewworldorderparty.wordpress.com/2011/05/07/guillotine-death-by-noahide-laws-passed-by-congress-1991/ whyofcourse  posted on  2012-06-26   17:51:34 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #90. To: whyofcourse (#89) Is there a Thomasloc.gov link to view these laws? SJN  posted on  2012-06-26   19:16:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #91. To: SJN (#90) What is a Thomasloc.gov? Google bush and noahide law. whyofcourse  posted on  2012-06-26   19:22:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #92. To: whyofcourse (#91) It where you look up legislation. SJN  posted on  2012-06-26   19:24:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #93. To: whyofcourse (#91) thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.php SJN  posted on  2012-06-26   19:26:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #94. To: SJN (#93) oh ok U.S. Congress, H.J. Resolution 104, Public Law 102-14, 1991 whyofcourse  posted on  2012-06-26   19:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #95. To: Liberator (#65) What kind of twisted mind do you have to think I would want and enjoy living somebody else's nightmare for even 23 seconds,never mind 23 minutes? Or that I would even waste 23 minutes of my life to hear a cult spiel? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-26   22:05:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #96. To: sneakypete (#95) What kind of twisted mind do you have to think I would want and enjoy living somebody else's nightmare for even 23 seconds,never mind 23 minutes? Or that I would even waste 23 minutes of my life to hear a cult spiel? The 23 GAZILLION HOURS you've wasted engaging the gay-statist nightmare named "yu-klown" on a dopey forum called Liberty Post seemed to be important enough to you, so what do I know? Oh, I just remembered why I gave it a shot - I care about your eternal soul and thought you might consider 23 MORE minutes wouldn't exactly break the camel's back. My bad. The guy's nightmare (for some) is far more intimate and personal account of the wrong side God, but here is the short of it (14 & 15 being part of the dream/nightmare): Revelation 20 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. When you get bored of the usual political banter that won't really matter real soon, give that 23 minutes a serious look. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   22:50:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #97. To: SJN (#90) (Edited) Here is the bill. You'll see that it names a day as Education Day in honor of some well-known Jewish Rabbi. It does not put the USA under some Noahide law of the world. Below the bill I've included the actions taken on the joint resolution; there you'll see that the Senate added some sort of preamble and then passed the bill. 102d CONGRESS 1st Session H. J. RES. 104 JOINT RESOLUTION To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. HJ 104 EH 102d CONGRESS 1st Session H. J. RES. 104 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JOINT RESOLUTION To designate March 26, 1991, as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded; Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws; Whereas without these ethical values and principles the edifice of civilization stands in serious peril of returning to chaos; Whereas society is profoundly concerned with the recent weakening of these principles that has resulted in crises that beleaguer and threaten the fabric of civilized society; Whereas the justified preoccupation with these crises must not let the citizens of this Nation lose sight of their responsibility to transmit these historical ethical values from our distinguished past to the generations of the future; Whereas the Lubavitch movement has fostered and promoted these ethical values and principles throughout the world; Whereas Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, leader of the Lubavitch movement, is universally respected and revered and his eighty-ninth birthday falls on March 26, 1991; Whereas in tribute to this great spiritual leader, `the rebbe,' this, his ninetieth year will be seen as one of `education and giving,' the year in which we turn to education and charity to return the world to the moral and ethical values contained in the Seven Noahide Laws; and Whereas this will be reflected in an international scroll of honor signed by the President of the United States and other heads of state: Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That March 26, 1991, the start of the ninetieth year of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, leader of the worldwide Lubavitch movement, is designated as `Education Day, U.S.A.'. The President is requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day with appropriate ceremonies and activities. Passed the House of Representatives March 5, 1991. Attest: Clerk. _____________________________________________________________________________ MAJOR ACTIONS: 1/31/1991 Introduced in House 3/5/1991 Committee on Post Office and Civil Service discharged. 3/5/1991 Passed/agreed to in House: On passage Passed without objection. 3/7/1991 Passed/agreed to in Senate: Passed Senate without amendment and with a preamble by Voice Vote. 3/7/1991 Cleared for White House. 3/14/1991 Presented to President. 3/20/1991 Signed by President. 3/20/1991 Became Public Law No: 102-14. rowdee  posted on  2012-06-26   22:59:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #98. To: whyofcourse (#89) The NOAHIDE LAWS legislation was written by the Orthodox Jewish organization based in Brooklyn, NY. They presented them to George Bush SR (Mr. NWO himself) to sign into leglslation. I can't help but ask if whoever wrote this 'stuff' has a clue as to how the legislative process in the United States works. This is some pitiful concept of how the process goes. rowdee  posted on  2012-06-26   23:05:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #99. To: redleghunter, mcgowanjm, Mad Dog (#88) Yes, I ask that question of the "noble savage" as he eats his neighbor with a dash of henri sauce. LMAO! McGowan after all his whining and finger-pointing at mankind dismisses the power of his REAL Destroyer of Mother Earth: "Gaia"...*is a cannibal*! (or are you a Zombie, Jimmy?) Hey! We're STILL awaiting an answer from you: WHY does Gaia/Mother Earth seem to hate all living things? Since earth's beginning, what the casualty list? Since nothing lives forever, isn't she your prime suspect in a mass murder cover-up - with YOU as an accessory?? And WHY does she keep on screwing up the weather throughout history? She grew jungles on both poles only to play a dirty trick and apparently turned the planet on its axis and freeze to death ALL life there - as well as during the recent Ice Age. before that she killed all the dinosaurs...killed every man since the beginning...launched the Great Flood, drowned nearly the entire world... And NOW you won't blame HER for the single degree that's supposed changing the planet's weather?? Pretty lame of you. Can you please have a word or two with her?? tell her to behave like a lady. Thanks. If you have the time, the link below will bring you to a Francis Schaeffer book review that points out the futile effort of mankind trying to find their own solutions to "being." www.tonybartolucci.co m/reading/schaeffer.pdf Yes sir. Thanks, I'll check that out... Liberator  posted on  2012-06-26   23:06:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #100. To: Liberator (#96) The 23 GAZILLION HOURS you've wasted engaging the gay-statist nightmare named "yu-klown" on a dopey forum called Liberty Post seemed to be important enough to you, so what do I know? You don't know much if you think I would be interested in that brainwashing,or that I wouldn't feel insulted because you want to "save my soul". What's wrong with my soul? How is yours any better? Worry about saving your own soul and leave me out of this crap. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   2:17:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #101. To: rowdee, whyofcourse (#98) whyofcourse usually means whyofcourse it is anti Jew propaganda. He is a 4forumer. It is never to late. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-27   6:47:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #102. To: sneakypete (#100) What's wrong with my soul? Lots sneaky. For one you would tell little kids that two men have a right to be " married". Confusing them and possibly fucking them up. You are as leftist as any liberal on that one. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-27   6:49:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #103. To: Liberator (#99) You talkin' to me?....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-27   7:43:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #104. To: whyofcourse (#89) 1991.... The year when the USSA went from calling our Enemies.... we've always got one, eh..... COMMUNISTS to wait for it..... TERR'rists......;} ALL you need to know. O and that PEACE DIVIDEND just MAGICALLY went away.....8D Thanx bunches Poppy....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-27   7:45:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #105. To: Liberator (#87) Not so fast. You did not respond to the remainder of my post. Whoever posted this is getting smart. The INSTANT I see False, I stop reading. Mosdt likely the first sentence......8D You're wasting your time posting the rest.....;} mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-27   7:52:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #106. To: redleghunter (#80) My research suggests that this One-World Government,..... Like that......;} GOOD NEWS.... World USSA Empire coming to a halt. Can no longer be sustained. Air Force Academy evacuated......;} hot bed of zioFundys.....LMFAO mcgowanjm  posted on  2012-06-27   7:54:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #107. To: whyofcourse (#89) In addition to the FEMA camps, coffins, and FEMA death trains, the NWO are stockpiling GUILLOTINES to behead all those who do not conform to the Noahide Laws and image of the NWO beast system... ...when MARTIAL LAW IS DECLARED,and the Constitution abolished, THEN you will witness with your own eyes the unveiling and public display of these modern military guillotines, and the US and foreign troops training (in FORT LEWIS, FORT BRAGG, FORT HOOD and elsewhere)to operate them on AMERICAN violaters... But...but...those are just....CTs!!! Our nation wuz HACKED!! (really & truly) Some of us do know exactly what's coming down the pike; Know the Elites have conspired to sabotage and undermine America, Christians, and the US Constitution. But at the same time we must realize this is actually a *spiritual* battle. Fast & Furious was an attempt to prematurely help destroy the 2A. It didn't work this time, but obvious treason is still underfoot at the steps of the WH and Congress, and has been since Poppa openly declared his "New World Order". Eventually SOME event or events will either make illegal bullets (the "right to bear arms" NOT *technically* affected in that case, eh?) OR guns. Martial Law WILL be implemented within the next 4 years; And yes, all of the above is inevitable - 99% of the dumbed-down oblivious to their demise OR the fake piece of "GD paper" - the US Constitution - which presently is ostensibly merely a PROP for a DC museum. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   9:56:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #108. To: sneakypete (#100) You don't know much if you think I would be interested in that brainwashing,or that I wouldn't feel insulted because you want to "save my soul". You felted "insulted"?? Geez...lol. What's wrong with my soul? How is yours any better? Worry about saving your own soul and leave me out of this crap. That's THE point; No soul is any better than anothers. We are all too filthy for entry into heaven. That's where the blood of Christs cleanses us. The problem is with your heart and mind - they're hardened. That makes your soul impenetrable. I realize you understand the theory and the matter of faith and salvation, but just can't believe it. I thought it (the 23 minutes) was worth mentioning because at times you seem to have an open mind. One day I hope someone get through to you - no offense. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   10:04:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #109. To: A K A Stone (#102) For one you would tell little kids that two men have a right to be " married". No,I wouldn't. What part of "It's not any of my business what consenting adults do in their private lives." that you don't understand? You are as leftist as any liberal on that one. Wrong,once again! YOU and those like you are on the left on this one,because homosexuals were either jailed or locked away in mental institutions in communist countries. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   10:21:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #110. To: Liberator (#108) I thought it (the 23 minutes) was worth mentioning because at times you seem to have an open mind. My mind IS open to the FACT that you and others like you have as much of a RIGHT to worship as you see fit (barring such nonsense as human sacrifice,of course) as I and others like me have the RIGHT to NOT worship at all. I wouldn't change this even if were in my power to do so. If it makes you happy and harms no one else,have at it to your hearts content. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   10:28:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #111. To: sneakypete (#110) My mind IS open to the FACT that you and others like you have as much of a RIGHT to worship as you see fit (barring such nonsense as human sacrifice,of course) as I and others like me have the RIGHT to NOT worship at all. I wouldn't change this even if were in my power to do so. If it makes you happy and harms no one else,have at it to your hearts content. I get it I get it...I appreciate it... Look - if I didn't care about you as a person, I wouldn't bother pinging you to it. I still regard you as a good and fair man, Pete, despite our differences. Always have. Just wish you hadn't had that terrible "fundie" experience way back when with your relatives. Or for that matter *other* bad fundie experiences. They just don't come into play in the End. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   10:43:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #112. To: mcgowanjm, redleghunter, Mad Dog, Ferret Mike All (#99) (Edited) Jimmy!! WHEN are going to address these issues?? I can assure you I will keep on demanding an answer...until you and your snow-pea pod sized balls do so. You've whined and finger-pointed at mankind affecting the weather while dismissing (according to YOUR Cult-Belief) the power of his REAL Destroyer of Mother Earth: "Gaia". Now tell us - *is she a cannibal*?? A sadistic b*tch? Or just a cruel Mistress and Satanic Mother?? OR, is the God you claim doesn't exist the culprit? (but oh - THAT would present quite a conundrum for you and the other Tree-Huggers, wouldn't it??) MORE questions for you, Jimmy: WHY does Gaia/Mother Earth seem to hate all living things? And since the Planet's inception (when it wuz created out of thin air), what has been THE casualty list? Gazillions?? Since nothing lives forever, isn't Gaia/Mother Earth your REAL culprit and "murderer"? Where's HER culpability from your perspective? OR....are you an accessory of a mass murder cover-up by Mother Earth and instead blaming a God you believe does NOT exist? Wanna explain THAT?? Tell us Oh Great McGowan: And WHY does Mother Earth/Gaia keep on screwing up the weather throughout history? Fossils prove she grew jungles at both poles - only to play a dirty trick and apparently turned the planet on its axis and freeze to death ALL life there - as well as during the recent Ice Age. Before that she killed all the dinosaurs...killed every man since the beginning...launched the Great Flood (PROVEN EVENT), drowned nearly the entire world... And NOW you won't blame HER for the puny degree in temperature that's supposed changing the planet's weather TODAY?? Go on and answer. The SAME questions shall remain on this board, ON the 'McGowan Wire' for Eternity. UNTIL YOU DO. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   12:36:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #113. To: sneakypete, A K A Stone (#109) A K A: "For one you would tell little kids that two men have a right to be " married". Pete: "What part of "It's not any of my business what consenting adults do in their private lives." that you don't understand?" Promoting/demanding "gay marriage" through legislative coercion and the courts has ZIP to do with privacy issues of consenting adults. What are you missing about this kind of fascism, Pete? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   12:41:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #114. To: whyofcourse, Liberator, NewsJunky, Logsplitter, Serenissima Venezia, SJN, Biff Tannen, mcgowanjm, A K A Stone, sneakypete, aras (#89) In addition to the FEMA camps, coffins, and FEMA death trains, the NWO are stockpiling GUILLOTINES to behead all those who do not conform to the Noahide Laws and image of the NWO beast system. So where are all these quillotines being stockpiled? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-27   15:32:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #115. To: mcgowanjm, TooConservative, Liberator (#106) My research suggests that this One-World Government,..... Like that......;} GOOD NEWS.... World USSA Empire coming to a halt. Can no longer be sustained. Air Force Academy evacuated......;} hot bed of zioFundys.....LMFAO That was not my quote. Perhaps you should address it to the tinfoil hat brigade member who posted it. Ziofundy's...too funny. Below is the threat: As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-27   16:12:32 ET  (23 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #116. To: Liberator (#113) What are you missing about this kind of fascism, Pete? The whole part were people you claim to be fascists are pushing for the same individual rights everyone else has. You see so little demand for individual freedoms from fascists. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   19:40:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #117. To: redleghunter (#114) So where are all these quillotines being stockpiled? And who makes them and what is the Federal Stock number so we can all buy stock and get wealthy? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   19:41:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #118. To: sneakypete (#116) (Edited) The whole part were people you claim to be fascists are pushing for the same individual rights everyone else has. You see so little demand for individual freedoms from fascists. So in YOUR opinion, the position that opposing the fallacious term, "gay marriage", is fascism?? It's my OWN damn "individual right" to not ONLY oppose it politically and personally, but call it WRONG. What bugs YOU is that I oppose it on RELIGIOUS grounds as well. Too damned bad. Your precious queers can f** whomever they want in the privacy of YOUR own bedroom or yu-klowns - nobody is stopping you OR him. They have even shoved their perverted agenda up our azz through schools, the media, YOUR goob, and the entertainment industries and corrupt the world WITH impunity. And still you're b*tching and moaning about "individual rights". Are you frickin' serious?? What's your BS "fascism" claim again?? (and type slowly this time.) Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   20:06:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #119. To: redleghunter (#115) I'm sorry but your constant posting of these thread scrambling graphics prompts me to place you as my soul guess in the bozo room. See ya later, perhaps. Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'! Brian S  posted on  2012-06-27   20:52:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #120. To: sneakypete (#109) You are as leftist as any liberal on that one. Wrong,once again! YOU and those like you are on the left on this one,because homosexuals were either jailed or locked away in mental institutions in communist countries. You, a leftist? Who knew? meguro  posted on  2012-06-27   21:18:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #121. To: Brian S (#119) There's a bozo room here? SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   21:21:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #122. To: sneakypete (#116) The whole part were people you claim to be fascists are pushing for the same individual rights everyone else has. You see so little demand for individual freedoms from fascists. What you ignore is that the homosexual minority, are demanding that the Government mandate that the homosexual be not only allowed to marry, but to be married in any Christian church. They are demanding that the Government insert their rules in to religion! The designs of these homosexuals is more than being allowed "equality" in the public sphere. They are demanding that churches and religious organizations be compelled to turn their backs on Gospel teachings in order to accommodate their deviant behavior which is against the very underpinnings of Religion and it's FREEDOM from STATE. The whole movement is less about being free to "do whomever" and more about perverting the religion and using the state to do it. So who then is the fascist? SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   21:33:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #123. To: Liberator (#118) So in YOUR opinion, the position that opposing the fallacious term, "gay marriage", is fascism?? No. What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs. It's my OWN damn "individual right" to not ONLY oppose it politically and personally, but call it WRONG. And you have every right to those opinions. For YOU. You do NOT have the right to demand others live according to your opinions. Your precious queers can f** whomever they want in the privacy of YOUR own bedroom or yu-klowns - nobody is stopping you OR him. Now they are MY queers and I want to let them into MY bedroom? And you STILL wonder why people think you are hysterical when it comes to this? What's your BS "fascism" claim again?? (and type slowly this time.) If you haven't understood it by now it is because you dno't choose to understand it. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   21:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #124. To: meguro (#120) You, a leftist? Who knew? It was so big a secret that it even came as a shock to me. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   21:46:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #125. To: sneakypete (#123) What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs. You have this totally backwards. At first the "gay" movement was one of being able to tell the public that they enjoy sex with the same gender, then it was about being able to receive the same benefits from and employer. (Insurance,etc. as IF they were married). Now it's about churches and religious organizations being forced to marry them in their church's! Wake the frick up. This is not about their freedom to screw the same sex and receive married type benefits. It is about inserting their demands on the religious organizations of America by way of Government decree. SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   21:51:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #126. To: SJN (#122) What you ignore is that the homosexual minority, are demanding that the Government mandate that the homosexual be not only allowed to marry, but to be married in any Christian church. There are lies,and there are damn lies. What I quoted above falls into the "damn lie" category,and I have no doubt you heard this at church. The plain FACT of the matter is NOBODY has the authority in this country to tell a church who they have to allow to attend their services,or to whom they MUST provide services. Freedom of Religion is a double-edged sword. It cuts both ways. It is as un-Constitutional for the government to tell a religious institution that the MUST provide wedding oaths and ceremonies to homosexuals as it is for the government to tell homosexuals that they don't have the same right as other citizens to marry the adult of their choice, Now,no agent of the GOVERNMENT can refuse to marry homosexuals,and that is also the way it's supposed to be. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   21:52:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #127. To: sneakypete (#126) I actually have no problem with a civil marriage between same sex people at city hall. But you are sadly mistaken if you think that is where it ends. SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   21:55:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #128. To: SJN (#125) At first the "gay" movement was one of being able to tell the public that they enjoy sex with the same gender, then it was about being able to receive the same benefits from and employer. (Insurance,etc. as IF they were married). Now it's about churches and religious organizations being forced to marry them in their church's! So,now you are bitching about what they WANT,regardless of the fact they have zero chance of obtaining some of it? What is more dangerous to the Republic than homosexual marriage is fundie Christians trying to replace the Constitution with their religious superstitions. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   21:56:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #129. To: sneakypete (#126) Have you not read all about how it's now supposed to be HATE mongering by religious people, organizations who refuse to meet the demands of the minority of homosexuals? See Canada to gain a clue. SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   21:57:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #130. To: SJN (#127) I actually have no problem with a civil marriage between same sex people at city hall. Me,either. Not that it would matter if I did. Rights are rights,and not subject to popular approval. But you are sadly mistaken if you think that is where it ends. That HAS to be where it ends. The Constitution says so. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   21:58:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #131. To: SJN (#129) Have you not read all about how it's now supposed to be HATE mongering by religious people, organizations who refuse to meet the demands of the minority of homosexuals? No,but I don't get your church newsletter,either. See Canada to gain a clue. Since when has the US Constitution been the law of the land in Canada? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-27   22:00:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #132. To: sneakypete (#128) Christians trying to replace the Constitution with their religious superstitions. You are very ignorant apparently of how we arrived at our Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. I suggest you do a thorough review of the Federalist papers and the earlier history which also was used to write such marvelous documents. You seem to ignore that this nation was founded by people who were seeking religious freedom. SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   22:03:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #133. To: SJN (#132) You seem to ignore that this nation was founded by people who were seeking religious freedom. That is a well known fact. What's your point? Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-27   22:08:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #134. To: sneakypete (#131) he Hutchinson City Council voted 3-2 to add sexual orientation to the city's anti-discrimination ordinance, which covers churches, as well as employers, restaurants and other local businesses. Read more: www.foxnews.com/politics/...-ordinance/#ixzz1z3CQwBPt once you destroy the freedom of religion you destroy the very liberty you claim to promote. SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   22:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #135. To: sneakypete (#131) And one other thing. Government did not 'create' marriage. God did. Government sanctioned it through State laws. And I misspoke when I said I don't care if Homosexuals get married. I do. They should be allowed CIVIL legal bonds. But NOT marriage. Marriage is a religious institution created by that "spirit in the sky" that you so despise and was created for one man and one woman to enter in to and bring forth children to form a family unit. SJN  posted on  2012-06-27   22:45:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #136. To: SJN (#135) I am confident the issues concerning homosexuality and marriages is a political ruse or stratagem. It has nothing to do with individual liberties, freedoms and liberties. buckeroo  posted on  2012-06-27   22:53:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #137. To: redleghunter (#115) I like how Chick waits till the end to show the head revolutionary is wearing a Roman collar. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-27   23:21:07 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #138. To: Brian S (#119) I'm sorry but your constant posting of these thread scrambling graphics prompts me to place you as my soul guess in the bozo room. A sure sign you're going straight to hell. You see, these Chick tracts are a lot like a canary in a mine... Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-27   23:23:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #139. To: sneakypete, SJN (#128) What is more dangerous to the Republic than homosexual marriage is fundie Christians trying to replace the Constitution with their religious superstitions. Pete, you are so patently full of sh*t that the stench could wipe out an army of Zombies. NO "fundie" is (LMAO) trying to (*snicker*) "replace the Constitution with their religious superstitions." You're not only a damned liar but frickin' insane. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   23:42:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #140. To: TooConservative (#138) A sure sign you're going straight to hell. With my head held high...indeed. Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'! Brian S  posted on  2012-06-27   23:42:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #141. To: SJN, sneakypete (#125) (Edited) Sneakypete: "What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs." You have this totally backwards. At first the "gay" movement was one of being able to tell the public that they enjoy sex with the same gender, then it was about being able to receive the same benefits from and employer. (Insurance,etc. as IF they were married). Now it's about churches and religious organizations being forced to marry them in their church's! Yup. TOTALLY azz-backwards. SJN, you have NAILED the MO of the fascist gay moment (which Petey supports 110%), as he and THEY try and reverse the truth of the matter. First it's "Fundies" preventing them from porking each other up the wazoo, THEN we're stopping them from porking IN their actual bedroom, THEN we're guilty of stopping them from porking and marching in the streets, receiving "partnership" bennies (that straights CAN'T), and demanding respect and recognition of and for "gay marriage"...but lastly, DEMANDING to be married in Churches. And now you have Pete lying and accusing "fundies" of (HIS WORDS) "telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR [Christian] beliefs." BULL-SH*T, Pete. The "fascist" is YOU and your queer army. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   23:51:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #142. To: TooConservative, redleghunter (#137) I like how Chick waits till the end to show the head revolutionary is wearing a Roman collar. Lol, yeah...How about that? He knows the Vatican is Satan's HQ Central Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   23:54:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #143. To: TooConservative, Redleghunter (#138) You see, these Chick tracts are a lot like a canary in a mine... That, OR... ...garlic....a crucifix...the sunlight to a vampire. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-27   23:57:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #144. To: Liberator, Brian S (#142) the Vatican is Satan's HQ Central According to Brian S, they just bought the Crystal Cathedral. buckeroo  posted on  2012-06-27   23:57:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #145. To: SJN, sneakypete (#129) Have you not read all about how it's now supposed to be HATE mongering by religious people, organizations who refuse to meet the demands of the minority of homosexuals? See Canada to gain a clue. No, he can't see that Canada's template for persecution of Christians dovetail with "Hate Crimes" and the declaration of the Bible as a "book of hate" ...is America's future. None are so blind who refuse to see. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   0:00:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #146. To: buckeroo (#144) (Edited) According to Brian S, they just bought the Crystal Cathedral. And why not? The Vatican is LOADED. The Vatican real estate holdings, art, stocks and assets dwarf most first world countries. They OWN their own bank; OWN politicians. They are the original MOB. They create revolutions. They influenced and sponsored the Illegal Invasion of America, The Vatican and Catholic Church sale of "Salvation" for 1500 years was THE biggest scam. EVER. There was good reason the Founders didn't want the Vatican's influence in America from the beginning. THEY also colluded with the Banksters. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   0:05:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #147. To: sneakypete (#123) (Edited) What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs. Bullsh*t. Cite your source IF you can. Go ahead. And you have every right to those opinions. For YOU. Mighty WHITE of you. Thanks. You do NOT have the right to demand others live according to your opinions. I do so? Where have I stated such a lie, OR where have "fundies" cited such demands?? Again: CITATION, PLEASE. Now they are MY queers and I want to let them into MY bedroom? You're the one lying and dying on that hill, not me. And you STILL wonder why people think you are hysterical when it comes to this? The "hysteria" is as follows: "What is more dangerous to the Republic than homosexual marriage is fundie Christians trying to replace the Constitution with their religious superstitions." sneakypete posted on 2012-06-27 21:56:20 ET Nice try, LIAR. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   0:16:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #148. To: Liberator (#147) Sneaky is on the left on a whole host of issues. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   6:17:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #149. To: sneakypete (#123) And you STILL wonder why people think you are hysterical when it comes to this? Why do people substitute the word hysterical for the phrase "damn tired of"???? I think you would be amazed at the amount of people in this country who are "damn tired of" the gays and their lunacy!!!! Political Bumper Stickers: The fastest way in the world to let people know you are a total dumbass.... Total number of Obama 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far......5.. Total number of Romney 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far...0.. Total number of Obama vs GW Bush 2012 bumper stickers....2!! CZ82  posted on  2012-06-28   6:36:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #150. To: sneakypete (#123) And you have every right to those opinions. For YOU. You do NOT have the right to demand others live according to your opinions. Faggots should raise your grand kids. Don't complain about it lefty. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   6:43:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #151. To: sneakypete (#130) Me,either. Not that it would matter if I did. Rights are rights,and not subject to popular approval. Sneaky you are stupid. Men should be allowed in the womens restrom right. Are you one of the freaks that boys should be allowed in the girl scouts. What happened to you when you were young. Did your brain get run over by a train or are you just a closet dick sucker? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   6:45:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #152. To: SJN (#127) I actually have no problem with a civil marriage between same sex people at city hall. I do. And anyone attempting to implement such policy should be destroyed. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   6:46:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #153. To: SJN, sneakypete (#125) You have this totally backwards. At first the "gay" movement was one of being able to tell the public that they enjoy sex with the same gender, then it was about being able to receive the same benefits from and employer. (Insurance,etc. as IF they were married). Now it's about churches and religious organizations being forced to marry them in their church's! And where will it all end??? It won't end as long as people keep acquiesing to their demands.... Political Bumper Stickers: The fastest way in the world to let people know you are a total dumbass.... Total number of Obama 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far......5.. Total number of Romney 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far...0.. Total number of Obama vs GW Bush 2012 bumper stickers....2!! CZ82  posted on  2012-06-28   6:57:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #154. To: sneakypete (#123) (Edited) "And you STILL wonder why people think you are hysterical when it comes to this?" Lib and Stonie live for decisiveness, intolerance and the scapegoating of others to sell the bill of goods their hatred and intolerance of others is. Nobody should be discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation, and people like them should be more worried about the fact there is a historic low in the percentage of men and women who are in heterosexual marriages and work for the betterment of the institution at large then be worried about how they can deny the right for others top enter into this contract. Homosexual people are quite normal and have always been and will be around. They pose no threat at all to heterosexual relationships or the culture of thos country at large despite what haters and baiters creating wedge issues say about it. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   6:57:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #155. To: Ferret Mike (#154) Would you change your name to the faggot crusader? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   6:59:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #156. To: A K A Stone (#155) What makes you think that you acting like a child with petty baiting bothers me? That is you constantly, and is no surprise to anyone that this is all you are about. Your rantings promoting bigotry and hate don't reach any audience of lurkers trying to decide on the merits of issues like these, as the language you cultivate drives most away but people already in your lynch mob. Your ineffective and badly run forum does not bother me. And it has zero impact on anything. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   8:26:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #157. To: SJN (#135) And one other thing. Government did not 'create' marriage. God did. Government sanctioned it through State laws. And I misspoke when I said I don't care if Homosexuals get married. I do. They should be allowed CIVIL legal bonds. But NOT marriage. Marriage is a religious institution created by that "spirit in the sky" that you so despise and was created for one man and one woman to enter in to and bring forth children to form a family unit. lol, you are trying to use the force of government to impose your beliefs. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-28   8:39:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #158. To: SJN, *Irony*, *Irony* (#132) You seem to ignore that this nation was founded by people who were seeking religious freedom. Congrats! Your post was the inspiration for a new ping list,and in honor of your post,here is the very first ping to the new ping list. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   12:28:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #159. To: Brian S, Liberator (#119) I'm sorry but your constant posting of these thread scrambling graphics prompts me to place you as my soul guess in the bozo room. See ya later, perhaps. For the record, I am honored. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   13:10:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #160. To: TooConservative (#138) I'm sorry but your constant posting of these thread scrambling graphics prompts me to place you as my soul guess in the bozo room. A sure sign you're going straight to hell. You see, these Chick tracts are a lot like a canary in a mine... That puts me up to three Bozos here on LP. Must be making an impression:) As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   13:12:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #161. To: Liberator (#141) To: SJN, sneakypete Sneakypete: "What is fascist is telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR beliefs." You have this totally backwards. At first the "gay" movement was one of being able to tell the public that they enjoy sex with the same gender, then it was about being able to receive the same benefits from and employer. (Insurance,etc. as IF they were married). Now it's about churches and religious organizations being forced to marry them in their church's! Yup. TOTALLY azz-backwards. SJN, you have NAILED the MO of the fascist gay moment (which Petey supports 110%), as he and THEY try and reverse the truth of the matter. First it's "Fundies" preventing them from porking each other up the wazoo, THEN we're stopping them from porking IN their actual bedroom, THEN we're guilty of stopping them from porking and marching in the streets, receiving "partnership" bennies (that straights CAN'T), and demanding respect and recognition of and for "gay marriage"...but lastly, DEMANDING to be married in Churches. And now you have Pete lying and accusing "fundies" of (HIS WORDS) "telling others they are to be required by law and the force of government to live according to YOUR [Christian] beliefs." BULL-SH*T, Pete. I am reminded of the old Soldier getting ready to retire: "When I first came in the Army being gay was illegal Then it was tolerated Then it was celebrated and approved I am getting out before it becomes mandatory!!!" LOL I love that one As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   13:15:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #162. To: Liberator, TooConservative (#142) I like how Chick waits till the end to show the head revolutionary is wearing a Roman collar. Lol, yeah...How about that? When at the Jesuit university many moons ago, I had to fill an elective when the class I was scheduled for was dropped due to a prof's illness. So all that was left that sounded interesting was a course named "Jesus in politics." Said, ok sounds good. Well it turned out to be a leftist liberation theology course. The Jesuit priest teaching the course wore street clothes and proudly proclaimed he was a "chaplain" for the Sandanistas in the early days when they were "struggling" for freedom. Long story short, at the end of the course after many heated debates in class I received my only "C". As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   13:22:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #163. To: A K A Stone, Liberator (#148) Sneaky is on the left on a whole host of issues. You know the saying...If you lay down with dogs, you will get fleas. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   13:39:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #164. To: SJN (#134) he Hutchinson City Council voted 3-2 to add sexual orientation to the city's anti-discrimination ordinance, which covers churches, as well as employers, restaurants and other local businesses. Are you somehow under the impression that a city council can over rule the Constitution? What you are either overlooking or don't know about is what PROBABLY happened is the church (your church?) has city contracts to feed the poor,teach illegal aliens how to get "free" stuff,etc,etc,etc. BECAUSE of the contract to provide public services to the local citizens,the city DOES have the RIGHT to DEMAND the church obey local hiring and discrimination laws. ALL the church has to do to avoid this is give up the city contracts. It's up to them to determine if their religious views are more important than their bank balance. Either way the choice is theirs to make. Nobody is forcing them to do anything. The City of San Francisco went through this same thing back when Willie Brown was Commissar. The Catholic Archdiocese of San Francisco objected to having to pay spousal/familial benefits to unmarried homosexuals that were living together,and took the case to court to plead that as a organized religion they were exempt from these laws,and the courts ruling against them because all they had to do to avoid going against their religious convictions was to give up the contracts. Since they were getting FIVE MILLION DOLLARS a year from the city alone to do the things they are supposed to do for free anyhow,they decided the 5 million bucks were worth more to them than their religious convictions,so they caved and started paying same gender benefits. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   13:45:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #165. To: A K A Stone, SJN, TooConservative (#152) TC came up with some interesting stats on the other forum. Of all the states that "legalized" gay "marriage" a very minute portion of the gay population has taken advantage of said laws. I pinged TC as well, maybe if he is not in a surly position today he will answer:) As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   13:45:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #166. To: SJN (#135) And one other thing. Government did not 'create' marriage. God did. Really? Who created God? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   13:45:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #167. To: redleghunter (#160) That puts me up to three Bozos here on LP. Must be making an impression:) To be honest, I do normally bozo people for posting a graphics orgy on a thread. I'm making an exception because Chick makes all the right heads explode. At some point, even Chick's idiot webmaster will notice your pilfering images from his server and they'll hammer down that server hole. As of now, I don't anticipate Chick.com going after LP or LF with take-down notices but he certainly could pursue that. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   13:45:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #168. To: CZ82, SJN, Liberator, A K A Stone (#153) And where will it all end??? It won't end as long as people keep acquiesing to their demands.... The military is the petri dish. In the history of the military at first it was illegal to be a homosexual and serve. Then it moved to neutrality/tolerance. Then (now) it is accepted, and also celebrated with gay pride rallies at the pentagon. I fully intend to be out of the military before it becomes mandatory! As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   13:49:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #169. To: SJN (#135) And one other thing. Government did not 'create' marriage. God did. Really? Who created God? Marriage is a religious institution created by that "spirit in the sky" HorseHillary! Marriage was created by man in order to be able to control inhieritances and determine responsibility for children. It's a SOCIAL and legal construct,and not invented by some mythical creature. If your God thought so highly of marriage and family,why did he choose to be a "playah" and impregnate ANOTHER man's wife? Drag his ass on one of the Maury "Baby Daddy" shows and prove paternity. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   13:50:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #170. To: TooConservative (#137) I like how Chick waits till the end to show the head revolutionary is wearing a Roman collar. Christianity and Communism have a LOT more in common than the members of either cult want to admit. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   13:51:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #171. To: Liberator (#139) You're not only a damned liar but frickin' insane. Desperation turns you desperate and desperation makes you ugly,doesn't it? I am NOT a liar,and I am not at fault for the truth scaring you. Blame the people that brainwashed you and made you a cult member,not me. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   13:53:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #172. To: Liberator (#141) SJN, you have NAILED the MO of the fascist gay moment (which Petey supports 110%), Well,since you believe in myths and mythical creatures,it's no surprise you believe there is more than 100 percent of something. As for me being a liar,fuck YOU AND your God creature. PROVE that SOB exists or shut the fuck up about him! "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   13:56:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #173. To: Liberator, *Irony* (#145) No, he can't see that Canada's template for persecution of Christians dovetail with "Hate Crimes" and the declaration of the Bible as a "book of hate" ...is America's future. None are so blind who refuse to see. Irony ping number 2. We can only follow Canada's lead if you fundy religious cultists are successful at destroying the US Constitution. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   13:58:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #174. To: Liberator (#147) The "hysteria" is as follows: "What is more dangerous to the Republic than homosexual marriage is fundie Christians trying to replace the Constitution with their religious superstitions." The truth really scares you assholes,doesn't it? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   13:59:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #175. To: A K A Stone (#148) Sneaky is on the left on a whole host of issues. No,it's just that you and the rest of the thumpers are blind to reality,and confused about the left and the right. You are fascists at heart,and fascism is a leftist political movement. I am a right-winger and a conservative because I believe in a form of government that limits government control and maximizes individual freedoms. Both of which scare you and those like you. It's YOU,Liberator,and the other fundies that are on the left. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:02:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #176. To: A K A Stone (#150) Faggots should raise your grand kids. Don't complain about it lefty. Exposing your own little fantasy about buttslamming little boys,are you? Tell us all how many other Dim and Communist traits you believe in other than passing a law against something means it won't happen,or that YOU have a right to control the morality of your neighbors. While you are at it,tell us all how wonderfully this worked for your mentors,Stalin,Hitler,and Mao. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:04:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #177. To: A K A Stone (#151) Sneaky you are stupid. Men should be allowed in the womens restrom right. You really are obsessed with asses and genitalia,aren't you? BTW,do males and females use the same bathrooms at your house? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:06:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #178. To: A K A Stone (#151) Sneaky you are stupid. Men should be allowed in the womens restrom right. You really are obsessed with asses and genitalia,aren't you? BTW,do males and females use the same bathrooms at your house? Are you one of the freaks that boys should be allowed in the girl scouts. No,but I also don't believe the government is the entity entitled to make that decision. Unlike you,who would DEMAND the government micro-manage the membership rolls of private and public institutions. You must REALLY be thrilled with things like Affirmative Action and Government set-asides. They are right up your alley. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:08:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #179. To: redleghunter, A K A Stone, SJN (#165) TC came up with some interesting stats on the other forum. Of all the states that "legalized" gay "marriage" a very minute portion of the gay population has taken advantage of said laws. I pinged TC as well, maybe if he is not in a surly position today he will answer:) Hopefully, you actually care about my post on it since I just spent 20 minutes searching for it. Probably will get zero comments on it over here for my trouble. Let's crunch a few numbers. Assuming the law school's own estimate that 3% of the population is gay, the U.S. population of 330 million yields 9.9 million homosexuals. And in all the states where gay marriage was legalized, they have only performed 77,000 marriages which is only 154,000 married homosexuals (we'll ignore that some of these are re-marriages). So 154,000/9,900,000 = .0151515. So even among gay people, only 1.5% have actually gotten married over the course of 8 years. Just something to keep in mind the next time you hear about Adam and Steve who have supposedly been together for 30 years. (In most cases, these people are just what we would otherwise call roommates and co-owners of a home. They aren't actually monogamous and never were. At least one of them is cheating on the "spouse".) Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   14:09:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #180. To: Ferret Mike, SJN, Liberator, A K A Stone (#154) "Lib and Stonie live for decisiveness, intolerance and the scapegoating of others to sell the bill of goods their hatred and intolerance of others is." Really? Was it love and tolerance that led gays to stone and threaten Mormon churches after Prop 8 was passed in CA? You come from a position that sees "tolerance" as being "acceptance." Gays are asking for acceptance and indoctrination and not tolerance. The true meaning of tolerance is this: you have a position, I have a position, we do not agree with each other's position but depart peacefully. What comes after this is called acceptance. Acceptance would be we have opposing views and one of us backs down and "accepts" the other's position as their own. Folks like SJN, me, Liberator and A K A Stone are all about tolerance as it is properly defined. We will not accept the homosexual position. And because folk like us do not accept your position on homosexuality there is only one option left to 'win' the debate. That would be called indoctrination and re- education. And WE ARE seeing that indoctrination today are we not? It is happening in the schools, after school programs, on TV and in universities. This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal. However, given the homosexual lobby is not considered a religion (it should be) they can get local permission from school boards to "evangelize" their position thus cutting off the whole tolerance or acceptance route to the national debate. That is what good Christian folk are fighting for. Some form of neutrality. If gays can spread their false gospel to the masses unopposed hiding behind the cloak of "intolerance" and "bigotry" of others, The Gospel of Jesus Christ should be getting equal time. And if Christians do not get equal time, then we should be all demanding neutrality, which brings us back to the REAL meaning of tolerance. So based on the above, you can keep calling us intolerant bigots but that has little meaning and is just a chant. If you were tolerant in the real sense of the word, you could call the Christian response to the homosexual agenda as reactionary. And Christians would be correct and tolerant in calling the radical homosexual agenda an insurgency. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:11:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #181. To: TooConservative (#167) I'm making an exception because Chick makes all the right heads explode. Well thank you for making an exception. I really mean that. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:13:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #182. To: redleghunter, A K A Stone (#163) Stone should just ban sneakypete. There are some other libs here at LF that need the same treatment. At a certain point, no one don't want to keep reading the same Lefty anti-Christ rants over and over again. And people like pete bring their gay buddies like meguro along for the ride. It transforms free speech into primarily a freedom to blare their hate speech at everyone. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   14:14:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #183. To: Ferret Mike (#154) Lib and Stonie live for decisiveness, intolerance and the scapegoating of others to sell the bill of goods their hatred and intolerance of others is. Exactly. They sound just like Obama,Jesse Jackson,and Al Sharpton,who of whom they share religious viewpoints with. Nobody should be discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation, You clearly don't get it,either. Discrimination against those unlike you IS A NORMAL HUMAN EMOTION,and NONE of the business of government. Citizens have a perfect right to discriminate anyone they want for any reason,and even for no reason at all. It's the GOVERNMENT that is not allowed to discriminate. The government represents us all,and because of this it can NOT be allowed to discriminate against one citizen to benefit another citizen. The fact that lefties like you think it is ok for the government to discriminate against whites (for example) to benefit minorities places you,AKA Stone,and Liberator in the same boat. No,it's not going to be a happy crew,but you do deserve each other due to your love of powerful governments and powerless citizens. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:15:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #184. To: TooConservative, A K A Stone, SJN, Liberator, Biff Tannen (#179) Let's crunch a few numbers. Assuming the law school's own estimate that 3% of the population is gay, the U.S. population of 330 million yields 9.9 million homosexuals. And in all the states where gay marriage was legalized, they have only performed 77,000 marriages which is only 154,000 married homosexuals (we'll ignore that some of these are re-marriages). So 154,000/9,900,000 = .0151515. So even among gay people, only 1.5% have actually gotten married over the course of 8 years. Just something to keep in mind the next time you hear about Adam and Steve who have supposedly been together for 30 years. (In most cases, these people are just what we would otherwise call roommates and co-owners of a home. They aren't actually monogamous and never were. At least one of them is cheating on the "spouse".) Thanks for searching. I do appreciate it. I think it will get responses. Especially with inviting Biff to respond to it. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:16:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #185. To: Ferret Mike (#156) Your rantings promoting bigotry and hate don't reach any audience of lurkers trying to decide on the merits of issues like these And it damn sure does NOT help the conservative cause as people who lean conservative but maybe have a child,relative,or close friend that is a homosexual that they wouldn't want to see demonized and punished by a biggotted government that is stepping beyond it's Constitutional bounds. Guess which candidate these people are going to vote for when they step into the booth. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:18:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #186. To: Biff Tannen (#157) lol, you are trying to use the force of government to impose your beliefs. Of course they are. Even they know they are wrong to do this,or they wouldn't lie to themselves and us about it. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:20:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #187. To: redleghunter (#161) Do you think the government can pass a law and make YOU a homosexual? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:21:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #188. To: sneakypete, SJN, Liberator, A K A Stone (#183) Exactly. They sound just like Obama,Jesse Jackson,and Al Sharpton,who of whom they share religious viewpoints with. LOL pete, you must angle for catfish a lot dangling those chicken gizzards in front of Liberator and Stonie. The above share the same religious viewpoints as the race hustlers??!! Wow that is one for the books. Care to list a few similarities? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:23:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #189. To: sneakypete (#187) Do you think the government can pass a law and make YOU a homosexual? You missed the point. Forced "acceptance" of a view is tyranny. We are seeing the tyranny in the schools with indocrination programs. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:25:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #190. To: TooConservative (#182) And people like pete bring their gay buddies like meguro along for the ride. Gimme a kiss! Right on my big red ass. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:25:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #191. To: redleghunter (#188) The above share the same religious viewpoints as the race hustlers??!! Wow that is one for the books. Care to list a few similarities? Jesus,God,the Holy Bible,Virgin Birth,hell and damnation,etc,etc,etc. None is so blind........ "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:28:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #192. To: redleghunter (#189) You missed the point. Forced "acceptance" of a view is tyranny. Nobody can force you to accept any viewpoint. Period. Yeah,they can shut you up in public or at work in order to avoid being physically attacked or fired,but nobody can make you believe what you don't want to believe. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   14:29:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #193. To: TooConservative, sneakypete, war, meguro (#182) Stone should just ban sneakypete. You just went to #1 on my a-hole list. Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-28   14:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #194. To: sneakypete (#185) And it damn sure does NOT help the conservative cause Kind of fuzzy on what you consider "the conservative cause." Is it preventing government from intruding on the "right" of a gay man to bunk in with Boy Scouts? Is it preventing government from taking away the pot you grow out in the woods? Just trying to get what your brand of "conservatism" is. Perhaps you meant libertarian cause or liberal cause. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:30:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #195. To: Biff Tannen, SJN, A K A Stone, Liberator, TooConservative (#157) (Edited) SJN:And one other thing. Government did not 'create' marriage. God did. Government sanctioned it through State laws. And I misspoke when I said I don't care if Homosexuals get married. I do. They should be allowed CIVIL legal bonds. But NOT marriage. Marriage is a religious institution created by that "spirit in the sky" that you so despise and was created for one man and one woman to enter in to and bring forth children to form a family unit. Biff: lol, you are trying to use the force of government to impose your beliefs. Biff you are full of it again. The 1st Amendment allows the free exercise of religion. I think you need to look at 'who' is having government to force their beliefs. Homosexuals are calling their movement a civil rights movement, which means the government comes in on their behalf. So who is getting the big bad bully to fight its battles? Not Christians. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:39:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #196. To: sneakypete (#191) Jesus,God,the Holy Bible,Virgin Birth,hell and damnation,etc,etc,etc. None is so blind........ I have never heard any of the race hustler "preachers" do any of the above. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:42:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #197. To: sneakypete (#192) Yeah,they can shut you up in public or at work And the end result is what from that? Having to deprogram your kids when they come home from school. Still sounds like tyranny to me when one side is shut up and the other has free exercise of their message. We are all being MISO'ed by the left and you are ok with it. You even encourage it. And as an SF Soldier you will figure out what MISO is. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   14:47:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #198. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, A K A Stone, sneakypete (#182) Stone should just ban sneakypete. There are some other libs here at LF that need the same treatment. At a certain point, no one don't want to keep reading the same Lefty anti-Christ rants over and over again. And people like pete bring their gay buddies like meguro along for the ride. It transforms free speech into primarily a freedom to blare their hate speech at everyone. How about we just cap your whinny ass instead, and keep the others? Alot you know about 'freedom of speech', and who the first ammendent protects, azzhole, do all of us a favore and change your user name, you're giving legitimate conservatives a bad name with your ignorance. If there is something on this forum you don't wish to read, skip over it. If a member offends you, then use the filter stone provided for you. You don't speak for everyone here, but your posts speaks volumes about you, an Obama brown shirt snitch, out to silence dissent, that is a 'leftist' anti- American behavior. Suck it up, or move on! jmho! "A friend will calm you down when you are angry, but a best friend will skip beside you with a baseball bat singing, "someone's gonna get it" Murron  posted on  2012-06-28   15:13:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #199. To: Fred Mertz, A K A Stone (#193) You just went to #1 on my a-hole list. He should ban you too. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   15:13:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #200. To: Murron (#198) And you're just a crackpot, circling the Tidy Bowl with LF's liberal contingent. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   15:18:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #201. To: redleghunter (#197) And as an SF Soldier you will figure out what MISO is. I don't know why you accept his claims at face value. Or why you consider his opinion to have elevated meaning if he was SF. We have a confessed war criminal now running for U.S. Senate. He was a SEAL who has admitted to war crimes in Vietnam. So does that somehow make him credible all at once? Maybe he could wave his stump at you if you doubt him. But we do know he is a SEAL. Can you vouch for sneaky? I don't think so. The internet is chock full of SEAL wannabes. Even those who never served can pick up plenty of lingo and procedural information at the various vet forums. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   15:27:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #202. To: Fred Mertz, A K A Stone, redleghunter (#201) I notice that sneaky is trying to stir up a rabble of his liberal buddies from LP over this thread. Just don't post it here at LF. And you should ban Fred Mertz. He is nothing but trouble on every conservative forum he has ventured to. Very much like Boxcar "Willie Green" in that respect. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   15:32:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #203. To: TooConservative (#201) The internet is chock full of SEAL wannabes. Even those who never served can pick up plenty of lingo and procedural information at the various vet forums. I give the benefit of the doubt on these forums until something presents itself otherwise. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   16:35:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #204. To: TooConservative, Liberator, A K A Stone, SJN (#137) Now up to 4 Bozos here on LF. Must be getting under the skin. Brian S (we all know what the "s" stands for) was the third to put me on Bozo. Wondering if ol' Jimma put me there too for #4? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   16:40:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #205. To: TooConservative (#179) Thank you TC! SJN  posted on  2012-06-28   16:45:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #206. To: redleghunter (#180) Really? Was it love and tolerance that led gays to stone and threaten Mormon churches after Prop 8 was passed in CA? You come from a position that sees "tolerance" as being "acceptance." Gays are asking for acceptance and indoctrination and not tolerance. The true meaning of tolerance is this: you have a position, I have a position, we do not agree with each other's position but depart peacefully. What comes after this is called acceptance. Acceptance would be we have opposing views and one of us backs down and "accepts" the other's position as their own. Folks like SJN, me, Liberator and A K A Stone are all about tolerance as it is properly defined. We will not accept the homosexual position. And because folk like us do not accept your position on homosexuality there is only one option left to 'win' the debate. That would be called indoctrination and re- education. And WE ARE seeing that indoctrination today are we not? It is happening in the schools, after school programs, on TV and in universities. This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal. However, given the homosexual lobby is not considered a religion (it should be) they can get local permission from school boards to "evangelize" their position thus cutting off the whole tolerance or acceptance route to the national debate. That is what good Christian folk are fighting for. Some form of neutrality. If gays can spread their false gospel to the masses unopposed hiding behind the cloak of "intolerance" and "bigotry" of others, The Gospel of Jesus Christ should be getting equal time. And if Christians do not get equal time, then we should be all demanding neutrality, which brings us back to the REAL meaning of tolerance. So based on the above, you can keep calling us intolerant bigots but that has little meaning and is just a chant. If you were tolerant in the real sense of the word, you could call the Christian response to the homosexual agenda as reactionary. And Christians would be correct and tolerant in calling the radical homosexual agenda an insurgency. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) Excellent, excellent summary. You have nailed it perfectly. SJN  posted on  2012-06-28   16:48:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #207. To: SJN (#206) It is the constant battle of the wills: -Those that want to teach you how to think vs. -Those that teach you what to think As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   17:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #208. To: redleghunter (#203) I give the benefit of the doubt on these forums until something presents itself otherwise. Maybe it already has. Do you really find that many viciously aggressively antichrist atheist types, full of hate for religion like sneakypete is, in the military? Personally, I've never met even one that behaved like this. And I would guess you haven't either. Isn't it peculiar how sneaky reserves every bit of his fury only for Christians? I've never seen him post a peep on the Major Hassan shootings at Fort Hood. You'd think he might reserve a bit of his venom for the Muslims. But, no, his only target is the Prince of Peace. That's why I don't buy it. Never did. No doubt, he and others can summon considerable military or weapons lingo to parade around but I still don't buy it. I've come to believe that up to half the people who make such claims online have never gotten closer to the actual military than playing board game re-enactments of historical battles and watching Discovery channel and Military channel materials. Anyone can read historical novels, frequent veteran forums, pick up the lingo, etc. I do know that there are a lot of military imposters online. Sneaky isn't merely debating here. He's pouring out his rage at Christ. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   17:03:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #209. To: TooConservative (#208) Maybe it already has. Do you really find that many viciously aggressively antichrist atheist types, full of hate for religion like sneakypete is, in the military? Personally, I've never met even one that behaved like this. And I would guess you haven't either. Isn't it peculiar how sneaky reserves every bit of his fury only for Christians? I've never seen him post a peep on the Major Hassan shootings at Fort Hood. You'd think he might reserve a bit of his venom for the Muslims. But, no, his only target is the Prince of Peace. I have to say, in the Army today there IS that element. Most are younger and came in when the floodgate was open after 9/11. Much different military now than before 9/11. We have not changed for the better I will say. But the mold of the SF Soldier from the era pete hails from, your statement would be correct. Not many honorably discharged Soldiers from the Vietnam era would spout the garbage he does. Only John Kerry types whose discharge circumstances were dubious. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-28   17:08:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #210. To: sneakypete (#187) Do you think the government can pass a law and make YOU a homosexual? Break federal laws and you'll find they'll turn you into a homosexual in a federal prison. And not by your own choice. So they passed that hurdle long ago. They could care less even though they occasionally make a few public laments over the state of their prisons as free-rape zones of the vast majority of inmates. So literally millions of normal men have already been forced into being homosexuals involuntarily as a result of the longstanding federal policy of our government(s). There is no denying it. It is state-imposed sexual slavery. It is rape as criminal punishment. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   17:09:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #211. To: redleghunter (#209) Not many honorably discharged Soldiers from the Vietnam era would spout the garbage he does. Exactly. The whiff is pretty strong. I was going to mention that same thing in my last post but didn't...that the only ex-military I've heard rage this way are the dishononable or less-than-honorable discharged ones. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   17:11:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #212. To: Biff Tannen (#157) lol, you are trying to use the force of government to impose your beliefs. Biff don't be a fool. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Doesn't matter what the NIGGER in the White House says. Yeah I said Obama is a nigger. Nigger, nigger, nigger. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   18:29:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #213. To: Ferret Mike (#154) Homosexual people are quite normal and have always been..... So what about all the ones who are pedophiles??? Political Bumper Stickers: The fastest way in the world to let people know you are a total dumbass.... Total number of Obama 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far......5.. Total number of Romney 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far...0.. Total number of Obama vs GW Bush 2012 bumper stickers....2!! CZ82  posted on  2012-06-28   18:33:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #214. To: Ferret Mike (#156) What makes you think that you acting like a child with petty baiting bothers me? What makes you think I give a shit about what some satanist Obama cock worshiper that rolls around in human shit thinks? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   18:44:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #215. To: A K A Stone (#214) These comments are just too much. You do realize Google is recording all of that for posterity? Adios. Tooconservative  posted on  2012-06-28   19:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #216. To: TooConservative (#215) You do realize Google is recording all of that for posterity? Adios. Good they will see that I am not one of the girly men. That I am one of the pissed off people Oh and the 3 or 4 people you wanted me to ban. The answer is no. What I described is what Mike figuratively does. He is a sex pervert that wants to corrupt our culture. He wouldn't be nearly as bad if he just acted like the pig he is and rolled around in it. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   19:16:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #217. To: CZ82 (#213) Pedophiles feel intimitated sexually by their peers and go for innocent prey. Many pedophiles don't care about the gender of the child. Someone who is a pedophile is that, a pedophile, not a heterosexual or a homosexual. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   19:58:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #218. To: A K A Stone (#214) "What makes you think I give a shit about what some satanist Obama cock worshiper that rolls around in human shit thinks?" You must be on a bad acid trip to so badly miss the person whom that discription applies to. You are very immature and apparently incapable of comporting yourself properly in adult conversation. This is your problem, not mine. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:01:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #219. To: Ferret Mike (#217) Many pedophiles don't care about the gender of the child. Someone who is a pedophile is that, a pedophile, not a heterosexual or a homosexual. Mike quit making exescuses for queers. If the queer goes for the boy and he is male he is a faggot pedophile and should be put to death. If the pedophile likes girls and is male he is a hetro pedophile, equally deserving of death. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:04:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #220. To: Ferret Mike (#218) You are very immature and apparently incapable of comporting yourself properly in adult conversation. I'm not interesting in having a conversation with destroyers of my nation. I'm more interested in destroying your type of person. I don't care about your little sissy words of tolerating pedophiles and queers and other evil doers. You should know about that. Didn't your wife leave you because you were to obsessed with the people who pay others to mutilate their genitalia. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:06:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #221. To: A K A Stone (#219) I have been arguing many many issues since getting on line in the mid 1990s. One of them is this issue. In 1996-8 this was a hot topic on the Time.com politics board, and I bothered to read the APA studies on homosexuality and saw first hand the well done research that showed homosexuals are quite normal; and productive, with only a difference in gender preference than you or me. I have the good fortune of having met and known an extremely large number of gays and lesbians in Eugne, Portland and other places. I have noted for myself that their gender preference does not reduce their value as citizens or human beings. Now if you want to be a bigot and keep your head in the sand like an ostrich, that is your problem. But if we ever get another group trying to vilify gays and lesbians unfairly again here in Oregon as we did when the Oregon Citizen's Alliance was trying to do it and failed. I will be must happy to get again once more in helping defeat their efforts as I did the first time as an activist working for Oregon basic Rights. Injustice and bigotry anywhere is a threat to justice and human rights for everyone. I also worked in Eugene Free South Africa in the 1980s, and on the American Indian Movement in the early 1970s. Caring about human rights is what I am into. And that will never change. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:17:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #222. To: A K A Stone (#220) Your diatribe sounds every bit as irrational and intolerant as anything Hitler's followers fervently believed. My ex and I are still friends and co-parents. Why we split is private as is the case with many of the divorces in this country. What the rest of the garbled junk in your post means is not comprehensible, and feel free to leave it that way. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:22:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #223. To: Ferret Mike (#221) I have been arguing many many issues since getting on line in the mid 1990s. One of them is this issue. In 1996-8 this was a hot topic on the Time.com politics board, and I bothered to read the APA studies on homosexuality and saw first hand the well done research that showed homosexuals are quite normal; and productive, with only a difference in gender preference than you or me. God said it aint right. I'll go with God instead of some freaks trying to rationalize deviant behavior. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:24:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #224. To: Ferret Mike (#221) I have the good fortune of having met and known an extremely large number of gays and lesbians in Eugne, It is good fortune to hang out with sex perverts and degenerates? Sounds like your town needs several cans of RAID. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:24:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #225. To: A K A Stone (#220) I have been attending the Olympic Trials herein Eugene, Oregon with my sister who is from a state closer to your's then mine. She is still going to foolishly waste her time at Liberty post and the other forums she goes to, many of which I like too. If you think for a moment she is me, you are quite the idiot. ;-D Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:26:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #226. To: Ferret Mike (#221) I have noted for myself that their gender preference does not reduce their value as citizens or human beings. They are still human Mike. They are sinners who want their sin to be proclaimed righteous. I could care less if they want to be perverts. But when they try to desecrate the meaning of marriage. Those are fighting words and I would rather have the faggots wiped off the earth then be forced by government to accept the equivalent of pedophile marriage. It is sick Mike. You are sick Mike. Your opinions don't matter to anyone who knows right from wrong. Which in your continuing state of confusion you don't know. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:27:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #227. To: A K A Stone (#224) It sounds like you are not going to elevate the level of discourse to a sane adult level, so take care, nice chatting with you bud, But I have things do do right now. Laters. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:28:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #228. To: Ferret Mike (#221) I have been arguing many many issues since getting on line in the mid 1990s. Ooooh whippie doo. Does it make you feel important when you tell us you've been on the net since the mid 90's. Well I was going online for a dozen years before you ever thought about it. I must be really important now huh. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #229. To: Ferret Mike (#221) Now if you want to be a bigot and keep your head in the sand like an ostrich, that is your problem. You are a anti marriage bigot fool. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:30:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #230. To: Ferret Mike (#221) I also worked in Eugene Free South Africa in the 1980s Oooh another whippy doo. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:31:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #231. To: All (#230) I have been attending the Olympic Trials herein Eugene, Oooh another whippe doo. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:31:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #232. To: A K A Stone (#226) Homosexual relationships are normal human sexual relationships that have always been around and always will be. You can't do a Hitler style 'final solution' and get rid of them. All you would do is be a part of humanity who would be remembered in the same breath as the Adolf Hitlers of the world. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:31:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #233. To: Ferret Mike (#225) She is still going to foolishly waste her time at Liberty post and the other forums she goes to, many of which I like too. So you readily admit you are a fool too. Ok thanks but I already knew that. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:32:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #234. To: Ferret Mike (#232) Homosexual relationships are normal human sexual relationships So why don't t babies come out of mens asses? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:33:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #235. To: A K A Stone (#229) "You are a anti marriage bigot fool." I want to get married again and will someday. Perhaps even to my current lady friend. I an deeply concerned we are at a historic low point in the number of people who are married. Only 49% of men and women are involved in heterosexual marriage, and it behooves all of us to work to improve marriage. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:34:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #236. To: Ferret Mike (#232) You can't do a Hitler style 'final solution' and get rid of them. All you would do is be a part of humanity who would be remembered in the same breath as the Adolf Hitlers of the world. No I can't nor would I want to. Is that why you hate God? You know because ha hates fags and killed bunch of them at Sodom and Gomorrah. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:34:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #237. To: Ferret Mike (#235) I want to get married again and will someday. You can only get married once fool. Every time you have sex with anyone other then your original wife is adultery. You sinner you. Is your new "lady friend" attracted to scrawny girly men, who constantly go on the internet and champion the cause of men who cut their penis's off? Or have you been working your bean pole like arms out? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:37:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #238. To: A K A Stone (#234) babies don't come out of Kleenex used to clean up with after any man, gay or straight masturbates. They don't come from people who are sterile, too old, or if the couple is using birth control either. Straight couples also engage in sodomy too. Your argument/rant has no legs to stand on. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:38:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #239. To: Ferret Mike (#235) I an deeply concerned we are at a historic low point in the number of people who are married. Only 49% of men and women are involved in heterosexual marriage, and it behooves all of us to work to improve marriage. Dammit Mike you finally said something sane. I knew deep down you had a bit of decency in you. Now let that part of you grow. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:38:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #240. To: Ferret Mike (#238) babies don't come out of Kleenex used to clean up with after any man, gay or straight masturbates. Do you think it is cruel to put little spermies in shit? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #241. To: A K A Stone (#237) Okay, so you just can't seem to kick the childish insanity, Later alligator. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-28   20:40:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #242. To: Ferret Mike (#241) Okay, so you just can't seem to kick the childish insanity, Later alligator. So it is childish to relay to you what the Bible says about divorce? That wasn't childish Mike. Sounds like you don't like the truth. I mean when you got married didn't you make a life long commitment? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   20:42:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #243. To: SJN (#0) Hot damn...Ignore thread really does work. bye, bye. Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'! Brian S  posted on  2012-06-28   21:35:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #244. To: A K A Stone (#212) Yeah I said Obama is a nigger. Nigger, nigger, nigger. You must be from Ohio. I'm ready to leave this place, but I like a number of posters here. Why don't you ban TooConservative. Turnabout is fair play. Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-28   22:10:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #245. To: TooConservative (#215) Adios. AMF, see ya in the funny papers. Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-28   22:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #246. To: Fred Mertz (#244) I just said that because it makes certain people mad. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-28   22:16:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #247. To: A K A Stone (#246) You keep losing people here. If that's what you want, have at it... Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-28   22:19:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #248. To: TooConservative (#208) Personally, I've never met even one [sneakypete] that behaved like this. And I would guess you haven't either. He's been posting since '98 or thereabouts. Buy a clue, #1 a-hole. I hope you departed. Good riddance. Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-28   22:23:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #249. To: TooConservative (#208) Isn't it peculiar how sneaky reserves every bit of his fury only for Christians? I've never seen him post a peep on the Major Hassan shootings at Fort Hood. You really ARE so stupid you think you are clever,don't you? I did make posts on the Hassan shootings,and honestly don't give a damn if you believe me or not. You'd think he might reserve a bit of his venom for the Muslims. But, no, his only target is the Prince of Peace. ROFLMAO! You are now so delusional you think YOU are the "Prince of Peace"? And the main reason you don't see me jumping on Fundie Muslims as much as I do Fundie Christians is two-fold. Number 1 is they are kind of hard to find and you rarely hear from them. Number 2 is that when you do hear from them,they don't pretend to be anything but the ignorant superstitious monsters they are. Unlike posers like you who claim to represent the "Prince of Peace" while wishing death to millions. Like it or not,even the retards that are fundie Muslims are more honest than you. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:25:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #250. To: Fred Mertz (#248) What a fucking dope that guy is. Lol . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-28   22:27:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #251. To: redleghunter (#209) Not many honorably discharged Soldiers from the Vietnam era would spout the garbage he does. Only John Kerry types whose discharge circumstances were dubious. LOL! Know a lot of VN-era SF vets,do you? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:27:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #252. To: TooConservative (#210) Break federal laws and you'll find they'll turn you into a homosexual in a federal prison. And not by your own choice. Maybe you,but not me. No power on earth can turn me into a homosexual. So literally millions of normal men have already been forced into being homosexuals involuntarily as a result of the longstanding federal policy of our government(s). Ok,your admission that you are bi-sexual goes a long ways towards explaining your fear of that side of you. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:30:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #253. To: sneakypete (#251) Did you know Her+b Ll*oyd? I had some message traffic on him about two weeks ago. He's still in the game at his ripe old age. Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-28   22:31:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #254. To: A K A Stone (#219) If the queer goes for the boy and he is male he is a faggot pedophile and should be put to death. If the pedophile likes girls and is male he is a hetro pedophile, equally deserving of death. Ok,that I can go along with. There is no cure for these people,and they will just continue to rape children every time they get out of jail,and our number 1 priority as a civilization is to protect people from harm who can't protect themselves. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:35:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #255. To: A K A Stone (#223) God said it aint right. Then why not let God be the one to worry about it? Who do you think you are to take his place? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:37:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #256. To: Ferret Mike (#232) Homosexual relationships are normal human sexual relationships that have always been around and always will be. They may be normal for homosexuals and bi-sexuals,but they sure as hell wouldn't be normal for me. You can't do a Hitler style 'final solution' and get rid of them. Not in American you can't. We have laws against that sort of thing. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:40:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #257. To: A K A Stone (#236) You can't do a Hitler style 'final solution' and get rid of them. All you would do is be a part of humanity who would be remembered in the same breath as the Adolf Hitlers of the world. No I can't nor would I want to. See,you can be rational once you calm down. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:42:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #258. To: A K A Stone (#237) You can only get married once fool. LOL! You don't get out much,do you? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:43:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #259. To: Ferret Mike, A K A Stone (#238) Straight couples also engage in sodomy too. Shhhh! You don't want him dying from shock,do you? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:44:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #260. To: Fred Mertz (#244) Why don't you ban TooConservative. He/she/undecided just said adios a few posts earlier after stamping it's little feets in frustration at not being able to take over the web site. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #261. To: Fred Mertz (#253) Did you know Her+b Ll*oyd? The name doesn't ring a bell,but my memory is going all to hell so that doesn't mean much anymore. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-28   22:50:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #262. To: Ferret Mike, sneakypete, A K A Stone, Biffy, LMAO (#154) Lib and Stonie live for decisiveness, intolerance and the scapegoating of others to sell the bill of goods their hatred and intolerance of others is. HA! Isn't that exactly what YOU TWO do regarding your characterization of "Fundies"? Projecting hypocritical garbage. Homosexual people are quite normal... Chyeah, Mike. Just as "normal" as treating your anal canal as a vagina, eh? They [homos and their queer militancy] pose no threat at all to heterosexual relationships or the culture... No, not at all Sandusky. Or is it Biffy? Or is "We're Here, We Queer, and We're In Your Face!" just another way of saying "We're tolerant militant azzholes - REALLY!!"? EPIC FAIL, Mikey, you Tree-Hugging homo-fascist. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   23:34:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #263. To: TooConservative, A K A Stone, redleghunter, sneakypete (#202) I notice that sneaky is trying to stir up a rabble of his liberal buddies from LP over this thread. Just don't post it here at LF. That's sad. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   23:37:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #264. To: A K A Stone, sneakypete (#148) Sneaky is on the left on a whole host of issues. He's more of a social enigma, siding with the Left on the issues of militant homo-enabling, pro-homo on queer-marriage, and is militantly and intolerantly anti-Christian... On the other side of the ledger I believe he opposes abortion and supports the 2A. He's small goobermint (but suddenly BIG goob just as long as it and the courts cram "gay marriage" down everyone else's throat - in the name of "tolerance" of course). Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   23:44:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #265. To: CZ82, sneakypete (#149) Why do people substitute the word hysterical for the phrase "damn tired of"???? Because the Left MUST engage in that type of hyperbole when selling their crock of one-sided sh*t, aka "tolerance". Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   23:46:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #266. To: A K A Stone (#152) And anyone attempting to implement such policy [queer "marriage" officially conducted at City Hall] should be destroyed. Stop mincing words, Stone! Lol... Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   23:48:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #267. To: CZ82, SJN, sneakypete, Zesta (#153) And where will it [Queer-Militancy] all end??? It won't end as long as people keep acquiesing to their demands.... But...but...we're intolerant of gays' intolerance of straight/Christian opinion! That's a "Hate Crime"! And how dare straights/Christians/the Sane not acquiesce and surrender to bullying, slander, libel, blackmail, and extortion? It's worked so well for Sharpton, Jackson, and Plantation Blacks. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   23:53:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #268. To: A K A Stone, Ferret Mike (#155) Would you change your name to the faggot crusader? LOL... Mike could wear a rainbow tie-dyed shirt with a pink cape... Wait...that get-up actually sounds familiar. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-28   23:54:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #269. To: Biff Tannen, SJN, sneakypete, A K A Stone, Ferret Mike (#157) (Edited) lol, you are trying to use the force of government to impose your beliefs. Society and civilization has "imposed" it's beliefs because they are NORMAL AND NATURAL. On the other hand, you, yu-klown, meguro, Pete, and Mikey ALL endorse using goobermint and the courts to impose and enforce YOUR queer, special statist laws upon the rest of US in order to create a fake sacrament and fake human union called "Gay Marriage". There IS no such thing. It has NEVER EXISTED within ANY society. Just the opposite - homosexuality has universally ALWAYS operated within the closet. For good reason: It's un-natural, perverted, and shameful. Biffy, it's no surprise YOU belong to this "special" cabal. Meanwhile Biffy, your ilk have already implemented unconstitutional "Hate Crime" laws and "Hate Speech" laws.... If it were up to you gays and your militant supporters within the entertainment industry, the art world, the US Congress and Oval Office, you and they would arrest those who resist accepting and respecting your queer fascism. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   0:09:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #270. To: sneakypete, TooConservative (#170) Christianity and Communism have a LOT more in common than the members of either cult want to admit. So sayeth the Statist-Pro-Homo Lying Athiest who fails to see the *IRONY* that Commies AND Atheists share the same hatred of Christianity. Pete also fails to acknowledge that the American Founding Fathers by and large were adherents of the "Cult" of Christianity. Go ahead Pete and use your *IRONY* ping, dopey. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   1:04:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #271. To: sneakypete (#171) I am NOT a liar... Ok, you're a horsesh*t artist. A bad one. Feel better now? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   1:04:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #272. To: sneakypete (#172) As for me being a liar,fuck YOU AND your God creature. You are what you are. Nothing changes that, so eat it. Lol, you think I'm bothered by your curse of The Almighty? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   1:08:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #273. To: sneakypete (#173) We can only follow Canada's lead if you fundy religious cultists are successful at destroying the US Constitution. More horsesh*t and lies....But I guess practice makes perfect. You can add "Insane" next to "Liar". Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   1:09:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #274. To: sneakypete (#174) Sneakypete: "What is more dangerous to the Republic than homosexual marriage is fundie Christians trying to replace the Constitution with their religious superstitions." Sneakypete answering himself: "The truth really scares you assholes,doesn't it?" Uh, yeah... But try and explain your lie and exactly how "fundie Christians [are] trying to replace the Constitution." Let's hear this. Thanks Sparky. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   1:12:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #275. To: sneakypete, A K A Stone (#175) I am a right-winger and a conservative because I believe in a form of government that limits government control and maximizes individual freedoms. Both of which scare you and those like you. LMAO! You?? A WHAT?? A "right-winger and a conservative"?? You demand *everyone* kneel and bow down to the gay fascism that demand we all accept "gay marriage" or be called "intolerant", "bigots," and "homophobes"; Then you endorse goobermint interference and coercion through the courts...and you STILL say you're (cough, hack) a "right-winger and a conservative"?? LOL - good one! Go ahead and hit your *IRONY* ping list again like a pinball machine. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   1:19:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #276. To: TooConservative, redleghunter, AKA Stone, sneakypete (#182) Stone should just ban sneakypete. There are some other libs here at LF that need the same treatment. Are you serious? Pete is not a disrupter, throwing stink bombs just because he can. Pete and I disagree on religion, but I sure don't want him banned. Next thing ya know, someone might get close to AKA and have him start banning all the blondes or talk, dark handsome dudes, or even gamblers! rowdee  posted on  2012-06-29   2:21:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #277. To: Biff Tannen (#250) The real Biff Tannen wasn't for queers pretending and trying to force society to pretend they are married. The faggots are now a problem. It is time to get rid of the fag problem. That means stop catering perverts. It is unbecoming of a moral people. Why do you want us to enshrine evil in our culture? You're better then that Biff. Come on wake up snap out of it. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-29   4:49:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #278. To: A K A Stone (#277) The real Biff Tannen wasn't for queers pretending and trying to force society to pretend they are married. I never said I was in favor of it either. I was talking about people who are trying to use the force of government to make their beliefs law. I've never said anything in support of gays or against Christians. I see people on this thread trying to enshrine their beliefs in law and I'm pointing it out. That's all. I'm still the real Biff!! . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   8:23:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #279. To: Biff Tannen (#278) I see people on this thread trying to enshrine their beliefs in law and I'm pointing it out. Isn't that how all the laws are created. By peoples beliefs. I'm not saying every belief should be enshrined in law. But I think stealing is wrong and it should be illegal. I believe killing is wrong and should be illegal. I believe in God and so should everyone else, but it shouldn't be the law. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-29   8:33:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #280. To: sneakypete (#261) ...but my memory is going all to hell .... I regret to inform you that more than your memory may well see hell. SJN  posted on  2012-06-29   9:38:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #281. To: A K A Stone (#279) Can you start up a 'Liberator Wire' thread? . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   11:47:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #282. To: sneakypete (#251) LOL! Know a lot of VN-era SF vets,do you? I sure do. Family, friends and when I was a youngster is 1/11th SFG a slew of them were in the unit. Not to mention the VFW. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   13:02:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #283. To: Biff Tannen, A K A Stone, Liberator, SJN (#281) Can you start up a 'Liberator Wire' thread? Or we could put Biff in a padded room like Jim. Since I suspect Biff has me on Bozo, the rest of us can enjoy the video: As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   13:10:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #284. To: Biff Tannen, A K A Stone, Liberator, SJN (#278) I never said I was in favor of it either. I was talking about people who are trying to use the force of government to make their beliefs law. I've never said anything in support of gays or against Christians. Biff, who is trying to force their "will" on the people by using government? Below is a post in response to the same issue on another thread. You come from a position that sees "tolerance" as being "acceptance." Gays are asking for acceptance and indoctrination and not tolerance. The true meaning of tolerance is this: you have a position, I have a position, we do not agree with each other's position but depart peacefully. What comes after this is called acceptance. Acceptance would be we have opposing views and one of us backs down and "accepts" the other's position as their own. Folks like SJN, me, Liberator and A K A Stone are all about tolerance as it is properly defined. We will not accept the homosexual position. And because folk like us do not accept your position on homosexuality there is only one option left to 'win' the debate. That would be called indoctrination and re- education. And WE ARE seeing that indoctrination today are we not? It is happening in the schools, after school programs, on TV and in universities. This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal. However, given the homosexual lobby is not considered a religion (it should be) they can get local permission from school boards to "evangelize" their position thus cutting off the whole tolerance or acceptance route to the national debate. That is what good Christian folk are fighting for. Some form of neutrality. If gays can spread their false gospel to the masses unopposed hiding behind the cloak of "intolerance" and "bigotry" of others, The Gospel of Jesus Christ should be getting equal time. And if Christians do not get equal time, then we should be all demanding neutrality, which brings us back to the REAL meaning of tolerance. So based on the above, you can keep calling us intolerant bigots but that has little meaning and is just a chant. If you were tolerant in the real sense of the word, you could call the Christian response to the homosexual agenda as reactionary. And Christians would be correct and tolerant in calling the radical homosexual agenda an insurgency. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   13:16:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #285. To: Liberator (#262) HA! Isn't that exactly what YOU TWO do regarding your characterization of "Fundies"? Ok,how do YOU define "fundies" Fundie Catholics and Muslims,for instance. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:24:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #286. To: redleghunter (#284) I'm not here to educate you, asswipe. Save your tedious cut-and-pastes for someone else. For someone who professes (I'd imagine) to love the truth, you sure don't recognize it when it's right in your face, lol. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   13:28:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #287. To: Liberator (#264) He's more of a social enigma, siding with the Left on the issues of militant homo-enabling, pro-homo on queer-marriage, and is militantly and intolerantly anti-Christian... It would be easier and more accurate to just describe me as being "militantly pro- Bill of Rights". I have the odd and unpopular old-fashioned opinion that GOVERNMENT MUST treat all citizens the same when it comes to recognizing freedoms and applying laws. ALL citizens. Even citizens I don't like. I realize this isn't a popular position in the eyes of most members of the Dimpublic Party,but it's not my fault they/you are fascists who believe the government must control people,their acts,and their opinions. If this makes me evil,I can live with it. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:30:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #288. To: Biff Tannen (#286) Save your tedious cut-and-pastes for someone else. The point applies to your line of thinking. Perhaps you could respond to what I posted instead of continuing to plow through a manure truck with your language. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   13:33:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #289. To: redleghunter (#288) I tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words. Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you. This business of ignoring each others posts so we can get our own thoughts in isn't very interesting to me, you know. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   13:41:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #290. To: Liberator (#269) Society and civilization has "imposed" it's beliefs because they are NORMAL AND NATURAL. The battle cry of every dictator that has ever lived. On the other hand, you, yu-klown, meguro, Pete, and Mikey ALL endorse using goobermint and the courts to impose and enforce YOUR queer, special statist laws upon the rest of US... Pure,unadulterated horse shit. The exact opposite is true. It is people that think like YOU who are working to use the force of government to impose YOUR beliefs on the rest of us by creating laws that agree with your biases. YOU and others like you want YOUR beliefs and lifestyle recognized as dominant and normal,when it fact it is not dominant,and is only normal for YOU. I am positive that members of other religious cults see your lifestyle and beliefs as being against the wishes of God. Despite this,you are so narrow-minded you have become a statist in order to enforce your religious views and lifestyle on everyone else. Hitler,Stalin,Mao,and every other dictator that ever lived would stand up and applaud your actions if there were such a thing as life after death. Speaking only for myself,I don't personally give a damn if you ever open your mind to the possibility of other opinions or not,but I want you to understand that you MUST accept the fact that your fellow citizens have the same right to live free without a nanny government monitoring their lives as you do. The problem is NOT that people like you don't understand the simple statement "We are either all free,or none of us are free",which is a quote I originated,it's that you DO understand it and don't agree with it. From YOUR POV people like you should be the only ones free,and you should have the authority to dictate to others how they MUST live in order to avoid the government punishing them for non-Politically Correct thoughts or actions. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:42:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #291. To: redleghunter, Biff Tannen, A K A Stone, SJN (#283) Or we could put Biff in a padded room like Jim. Since I suspect Biff has me on Bozo, the rest of us can enjoy the video: Apropos clip...And frankly, a BOZO by that mental midget must mean he's worn out by your Chick Tracts, lol. Btw, the padding in either cell had better be heavy-duty rubber. I actually feel sorry for Biffy. He's stands on ZERO principle....except subversion, chaos, and anarchy. Yeah - sorta like Jimmy Mac. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   13:44:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #292. To: Liberator (#270) So sayeth the Statist-Pro-Homo Lying Athiest who fails to see the *IRONY* that Commies AND Atheists share the same hatred of Christianity. More horseshit. The commies and the churches only hate each other because they are competitors in the same business. Pete also fails to acknowledge that the American Founding Fathers by and large were adherents of the "Cult" of Christianity. A easy lie to sell because most people today don't realize it was illegal to NOT believe in God when those men were born and grew up,and impossible to get elected or even run a business if it became known publicly they were non- believers. Kinda like people like you and your brothers in the Taliban want people to live today. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:46:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #293. To: Liberator (#272) Lol, you think I'm bothered by your curse of The Almighty? You should. Surely he's going to rape you if you don't punish me. Maybe he will even impregnate you when he does it? After all,if you believe in virgin birth and Jesus being the Son of God, he has a history of doing stuff like that. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:48:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #294. To: Liberator (#273) More horsesh*t and lies....But I guess practice makes perfect. You would know because you have been doing it your whole life. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:49:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #295. To: redleghunter, Biff Tannen, A K A Stone, TooConservative, SJN (#284) Biff, who is trying to force their "will" on the people by using government?... This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal. However, given the homosexual lobby is not considered a religion (it should be) they can get local permission from school boards to "evangelize" their position thus cutting off the whole tolerance or acceptance route to the national debate. That is what good Christian folk are fighting for. Some form of neutrality. If gays can spread their false gospel to the masses unopposed hiding behind the cloak of "intolerance" and "bigotry" of others, The Gospel of Jesus Christ should be getting equal time. And if Christians do not get equal time, then we should be all demanding neutrality, which brings us back to the REAL meaning of tolerance. Amen, brutha... THE truth of the matter repeated: "This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal." So based on the above, you can keep calling us intolerant bigots but that has little meaning and is just a chant. If you were tolerant in the real sense of the word, you could call the Christian response to the homosexual agenda as reactionary. And Christians would be correct and tolerant in calling the radical homosexual agenda an insurgency. BULLSEYE (but don't expect a sane rebuttal from Biffy or ANY of his ilk (like sneakypete). They just REFUSE to see the beyond their own bigoted, anti-Christian PC beer-goggles). Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   13:49:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #296. To: Liberator (#275) You demand *everyone* kneel and bow down to the gay fascism that demand we all accept "gay marriage" No,that's just one of your favorite fantasies,and no doubt one of your cult leaders favorite fund-raising tools. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:50:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #297. To: sneakypete (#285) Ok,how do YOU define "fundies" Fundie Catholics and Muslims,for instance. You know damn well who you refer to in this case. And it AIN'T either "Fundie Catholics and Muslims". It's Protestants. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   13:51:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #298. To: Biff Tannen (#278) I never said I was in favor of it either. I was talking about people who are trying to use the force of government to make their beliefs law. I've never said anything in support of gays or against Christians. To him,that's the same thing. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:52:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #299. To: SJN (#280) I regret to inform you that more than your memory may well see hell. I'll save you a seat. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:53:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #300. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#286) Biffy: "I'm not here to educate you, asswipe." That's true. I'm sure a bag of hammers are willing to testify on your behalf. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   13:54:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #301. To: redleghunter (#282) I sure do. Family, friends and when I was a youngster is 1/11th SFG a slew of them were in the unit. Not to mention the VFW. And you are trying to claim they were all thumpers? None were atheists or agnostics? All wanted religious rule in place of the Constitution? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #302. To: redleghunter (#282) Family, friends and when I was a youngster is 1/11th SFG BTW,the 11th was a Reserve unit. They may have been VN-era vets,but none of went to VN unless they went active duty. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   13:57:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #303. To: Biff Tannen (#289) I tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words. Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you. I will take that as you don't care to read posts other than your own. Maybe I need to post a few more comics instead. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:00:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #304. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#289) Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you. But....but...but,that would require THINKING instead of "FEELING". Something else the religious right have in common with their leftist brothers. It's all about "feelings" and emotion,not facts. All religions are based on faith because facts just don't support their beliefs. The smarter ones know this at their core,which is why they get so defensive and go into attack mode when you question their beliefs. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   14:03:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #305. To: sneakypete (#301) And you are trying to claim they were all thumpers? None were atheists or agnostics? All wanted religious rule in place of the Constitution? That was not the original point. None talked poorly of Armed Services no matter their experience. None talked poorly of our Christian Heritage in the USA. And no one is advocating a "religious rule" in place of the Constitution. If you knew your American history well, you would know what the Founders said about the Bible and Christianity. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:04:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #306. To: sneakypete (#302) BTW,the 11th was a Reserve unit. They may have been VN-era vets,but none of went to VN unless they went active duty. Yes it was a Reserve unit and the Vietnam Vets served on active duty in different units during the Vietnam war. I was in 1/11th in the late 80s. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:05:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #307. To: Liberator (#297) Ok,how do YOU define "fundies" Fundie Catholics and Muslims,for instance. You know damn well who you refer to in this case. And it AIN'T either "Fundie Catholics and Muslims". It's Protestants. Afraid to answer the question? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   14:05:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #308. To: sneakypete, Biff Tannen, Liberator (#304) Narrow it down to a couple of sentences, why don't you. But....but...but,that would require THINKING instead of "FEELING". So thorough writing is considered feeling. That is quite humorous. So if I wrote two sentences, and used insults and profanity that would be genius right? Then you and Biff are just brimming with genius:)/s Just admit neither of you have an intelligent response to my original post. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:09:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #309. To: redleghunter (#305) That was not the original point. The original point was your claim that I must not be a SF VN Vet because you know a lot of VN SF vets and none were non-believers. None talked poorly of Armed Services no matter their experience. Where did THAT come from? None talked poorly of our Christian Heritage in the USA. What about now? And what about our NON-Christian heritages? And no one is advocating a "religious rule" in place of the Constitution. Not only a lie,a DAMN LIE! You and every other thumper on this board is ranting and raving about creating laws that treat one group of citizens as being of an inferior class that shouldn't have the same rights as other citizens. THAT is un-Constitutional,and the government has already done enough of this as it is without screaming for more. If you knew your American history well, you would know what the Founders said about the Bible and Christianity. Yeah,they made damn sure religion was NOT a part of government. Freedom of Religion is also Freedom FROM Religion when it comes to laws and government. I have no doubt you have been taught and told different your whole life by your cult leader who was and is pissed he and his organization don't have more political power and can't run the country to suit themselves,but that doesn't mean they weren't lying to you. They earn their living by lying. It's what they do. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   14:14:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #310. To: sneakypete (#287) (Edited) It would be easier and more accurate to just describe me as being "militantly pro- Bill of Rights". I have the odd and unpopular old-fashioned opinion that GOVERNMENT MUST treat all citizens the same when it comes to recognizing freedoms and applying laws. ALL citizens. Even citizens I don't like. Like I said, you're an enigma...And frankly I agree with much of your opinion regarding "freedoms" and "rights" Unfortunately you allow yourself to go off the rails on the definition of tolerance in the context of Queers and Christians respectively. But not only that, you've lied and claimed "fundies" aka Christians are "changing" government when it is the Queers and their abettors who are *militantly demanding* changing IT along along with the status quo. US "law" has enforced a man-woman definition of marriage since the beginning; MANKIND and his civilization has enforced the very SAME universal societal/cultural union as being between a MAN and a WOMAN. Any such claim to force the rest of America and Civilization to accept "gay marriage" as *law* via YOUR fascism is just as fallacious "right" as enforcing polygamy, inter-family marriage, and inter-species marriage. Except there is actual precedence of the former two. But not "gay marriage" or "marriage" between Fido and his master. I realize this isn't a popular position in the eyes of most members of the Dimpublic Party,but it's not my fault they/you are fascists who believe the government must control people,their acts,and their opinions. You're projecting, yet can't see it. Amazing. If this makes me evil,I can live with it. It's inadvertently "evil" on your part; You believe you are a gay rights MLK. The worst of it is a blindness to your own hypocrisy, lies, and stupidity. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:14:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #311. To: redleghunter (#308) Then you and Biff are just brimming with genius:)/s Well,neither of us has to habitually fill responses with quotes from other people in order to pretend we are thinking. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   14:16:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #312. To: redleghunter, Biffy (#288) Perhaps you could respond to what I posted instead of continuing to plow through a manure truck with your language. Intellectually, Biffy couldn't "plow through" a pile of feathers. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:18:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #313. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#289) I tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words. Would LARGE pictures and a few crayons help you any? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:19:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #314. To: sneakypete (#309) Not only a lie,a DAMN LIE! You and every other thumper on this board is ranting and raving about creating laws that treat one group of citizens as being of an inferior class that shouldn't have the same rights as other citizens. THAT is un-Constitutional,and the government has already done enough of this as it is without screaming for more. Interesting you mention this. Who is getting government to do what? Who is passing laws in 2012 to change traditional marriage to something else? If the gays would not legislate their agenda, then all would be well. But they are and Americans are reacting to their demands. Go get a lawyer and draw up a contract with your same sex partner, don't make it the law of the land. This has nothing to do with tolerance and equality. It is all about pushing their form of religion on each state and the entire nation. That is the tyranny, not those who hold to the same beliefs and traditions of the founding fathers. You must have missed the reactionary vs. insurgent post a few back because it was more than two lines. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #315. To: sneakypete (#311) Well,neither of us has to habitually fill responses with quotes from other people in order to pretend we are thinking. LOL, you really do not pay attention. I pasted my own words from another thread. The words and argument are mine. Take a look at them if you really care to debate. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:23:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #316. To: Liberator (#313) tried to wade through that a couple of times. Too many words. Would LARGE pictures and a few crayons help you any? He did not like the cartoons and won't read more than two lines. He must be one of the Congressmen who voted for Odingacare before even reading it. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:25:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #317. To: sneakypete (#290) Society and civilization has "imposed" it's beliefs because they are NORMAL AND NATURAL. The battle cry of every dictator that has ever lived. What part of "Society and civilization has 'imposed'" did you miss? YOU and others like you want YOUR beliefs and lifestyle recognized as dominant and normal,when it fact it is not dominant,and is only normal for YOU. I am positive that members of other religious cults see your lifestyle and beliefs as being against the wishes of God. I can see with your circular il-logic and your failure to concede a historically universal codes of ethics and norms that this conversation is going no where fast. Thanks for playing, Pete. Good luck to you and yu-klown and Fire Island on pulling the SAME kind of rhetorical bullsh*t wagon train. I'm not wasting my time with you as you continue creating your own insane reality. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:25:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #318. To: redleghunter (#316) He did not like the cartoons and won't read more than two lines. He must be one of the Congressmen who voted for Odingacare before even reading it. ROFL...@ BOTH observational jokes. Biffy "wades" through TWO sentences. Catch that?? LMAO! Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:26:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #319. To: Liberator (#310) frankly I agree with much of your opinion regarding "freedoms" and "rights" Yeah,people have rights as long as they agree with your opinions,right? It's when they disagree with you that they suddenly don't have any rights anymore. But not only that, you've lied and claimed "fundies" aka Christians are "changing" government when it is the Queers and their abettors who are *militantly demanding* changing IT along along with the status quo. ANOTHER lie by YOU. The FACTS are fundies like you ARE trying to change the laws to obtain a government based on fundie religious beliefs,just like the enviro and animal loons want to change law to enforce THEIR beliefs. US "law" has enforced a man-woman definition of marriage since the beginning So what? Does that mean it was right? There is no definition of marriage at all in the US Constitution,but there IS mentions of all citizens having the same rights. Slavery was an accepted part of our culture from the beginning,too,but eventually it was recognized that it was un-Constitutional to enslave other humans,so we no longer have slaves in this country. Other than Dim voters,that is. MANKIND and his civilization has enforced the very SAME universal societal/cultural union as being between a MAN and a WOMAN More nonsense. Practically every culture since the dawn of mankind has recognized homosexual couples,just as they have recognized unmarried heterosexual couples. It wasn't common and it wasn't spoken about much,but everybody knew about it. I don't know about the East,but in the west it wasn't a big deal until the Catholic Church decided it was evil. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   14:28:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #320. To: redleghunter (#314) Who is passing laws in 2012 to change traditional marriage to something else? Nobody. Traditional marriage will always be a marriage between a male and a female. Where have you heard any different? Go get a lawyer and draw up a contract with your same sex partner, don't make it the law of the land. You think homosexual marriage is going to become required by law? As far as I know,some of them only want to marry each other,not you. This has nothing to do with tolerance and equality. Obviously. It has to do with your desire to get the government to enforce your religious viewpoints on others. It is all about pushing their form of religion on each state and the entire nation. That's EXACTLY what you are doing. It's good to see you finally admit it. Or do you think homosexuality is some form of religion? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   14:34:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #321. To: sneakypete, Redleghunter, TooConservative, LF Christians (#292) Kinda like people like you and your brothers in the Taliban want people to live today. You mean Christian "fundies" = Taliban.... Have you ANY idea how ignorant and dopey this makes you look?? Me: "Pete also fails to acknowledge that the American Founding Fathers by and large were adherents of the 'Cult' of Christianity." Pete: "A easy lie to sell..." You know - the one thing I and fellow posters always respected about you was your (past) integrity, credibility, and effort to remain as truthful as possible. You've managed to blow all three. Opposing all that Christianity stands for is one thing; But it is irrefutable that the Founders of this America by and large were INDEED Christians - many devout. It is THE only reason this nation EVER became a nation and became great. The ONLY reason the nation is now an EPIC FAIL is exactly because Christian ethics and principles were shoved out the door - beginning in the early 1960s. As folks like you keep on attacking and chipping away at the Judeo-Christian based foundation, we can count on NO "America" is the near future. Congrats on "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED". Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:41:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #322. To: sneakypete (#319) Yeah,people have rights as long as they agree with your opinions,right? It's when they disagree with you that they suddenly don't have any rights anymore. More hyperbole. You're pathetic. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:42:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #323. To: redleghunter, sneakypete (#315) LOL, you really do not pay attention. I pasted my own words from another thread. The words and argument are mine. Take a look at them if you really care to debate. He won't. It's a LOSE-LOSE for him. This is why you see nothing but circular reasoning, irrationality, lies, Alinsky-ist debating techniques, and TOTAL avoidance of YOUR case & points. I guess Biffy's not the only one who labors through two sentences. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:45:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #324. To: sneakypete (#320) Obviously. It has to do with your desire to get the government to enforce your religious viewpoints on others. It is obvious you did not read my post on the difference between tolerance and acceptance. If you read it, you would not be asking and asserting the same questions. And yes, I DO consider the homosexual lobby as a religion. They are taking a private practice and wanting it made into the law of the land. That is forced acceptance. They preach their "gospel" under the cloak of "tolerance" and "health" education in our schools. While Christians are not allowed to have a Bible within a city block of a school. They do have their "high priests" and "clerics" who do not reside in marble cathedrals but sitting on the steps of the US Congress and they are called lobbyists. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   14:49:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #325. To: redleghunter, sneakypete, Biff Tannen (#308) So thorough writing is considered feeling. That is quite humorous. So if I wrote two sentences, and used insults and profanity that would be genius right? Then you and Biff are just brimming with genius:)/s Just admit neither of you have an intelligent response to my original post. Somebody get MENSA on the horn. #%$&!*@! is the new language of intellectual illumination. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:54:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #326. To: redleghunter, sneakypete (#324) I DO consider the homosexual lobby as a religion. They are taking a private practice and wanting it made into the law of the land. That is forced acceptance. They preach their "gospel" under the cloak of "tolerance" and "health" education in our schools. While Christians are not allowed to have a Bible within a city block of a school. They [the homos and advocates] do have their "high priests" and "clerics" who do not reside in marble cathedrals but sitting on the steps of the US Congress and they are called lobbyists. Hitting the truth on all cylinders, brutha. Don't forget the gay lobbying foisted upon America through the Leftist/queer-controlled networks, media, entertainment industries, and...the goob itself within THE INSIDE. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   14:59:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #327. To: sneakypete, Biff Tannen, Liberator, SJN, A K A Stone, TooConservative (#321) Kinda like people like you and your brothers in the Taliban want people to live today. Ok, so we are not talking past each other, below is what I posted, not a quote from someone else or an article, MY words. The point of contention is WHO IS REALLY the TALIBAN here? And if someone cannot read more than two lines, sorry this stuff is not a bumper sticker and requires more than that. You come from a position that sees "tolerance" as being "acceptance." Gays are asking for acceptance and indoctrination and not tolerance. The true meaning of tolerance is this: you have a position, I have a position, we do not agree with each other's position but depart peacefully. What comes after this is called acceptance. Acceptance would be we have opposing views and one of us backs down and "accepts" the other's position as their own. Folks like SJN, me, Liberator and A K A Stone are all about tolerance as it is properly defined. We will not accept the homosexual position. And because folk like us do not accept your position on homosexuality there is only one option left to 'win' the debate. That would be called indoctrination and re- education. And WE ARE seeing that indoctrination today are we not? It is happening in the schools, after school programs, on TV and in universities. This week is the 50th Anniversary of the court decisions forbidding prayer and Bible study in public schools. So you can't say the Christians are trying to indoctrinate the kids in public forums, they can't it is illegal. However, given the homosexual lobby is not considered a religion (it should be) they can get local permission from school boards to "evangelize" their position thus cutting off the whole tolerance or acceptance route to the national debate. That is what good Christian folk are fighting for. Some form of neutrality. If gays can spread their false gospel to the masses unopposed hiding behind the cloak of "intolerance" and "bigotry" of others, The Gospel of Jesus Christ should be getting equal time. And if Christians do not get equal time, then we should be all demanding neutrality, which brings us back to the REAL meaning of tolerance. So based on the above, you can keep calling us intolerant bigots but that has little meaning and is just a chant. If you were tolerant in the real sense of the word, you could call the Christian response to the homosexual agenda as reactionary. And Christians would be correct and tolerant in calling the radical homosexual agenda an insurgency. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   15:00:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #328. To: redleghunter (#303) Heading out for a weekend in the woods (without internet!!) See ya! Try posting something original, I'll try and read it when I get back. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-06-29   15:03:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #329. To: Biff Tannen (#328) (Edited) Heading out for a weekend in the woods (without internet!!) See ya! REMINDER: It's left foot...THEN your right....left....THEN AGAIN your right foot. And don't try to over-think this!! I made sure this was a two-sentence instruction so I guess it's 50-50 you'll survive. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   15:08:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #330. To: Liberator, sneakypete, SJN, A K A Stone, Biff Tannen, TooConservative (#321) Liberator: "Pete also fails to acknowledge that the American Founding Fathers by and large were adherents of the 'Cult' of Christianity." Pete: "A easy lie to sell..." Yes, very interesting. Then the Founders were liars when they said the following about the Bible and Christianity: Samuel Adams "A general dissolution of Principles and Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole Force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader . . . If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security." Samuel Adams, The Writings of Samuel Adams, ed., Harry Alonzo Cushing (G. P. Putman's Sons, 1908), Vol. 4, p. 124. "I ... recommend my Soul to that Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins." Will of Samuel Adams "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient." "He reigns in Heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let his kingdom come." Samuel Adams "How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words." Samuel Adams The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. Samuel Adams Fisher Ames “Should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its morals are pure, its examples, captivating and noble. In no book is there so good English, so pure and so elegant; and by teaching all the same book, they will speak alike, and the Bible will justly remain the standard of language as wellas of faith.” Fisher Ames: Author of the First Amendment Alexander Hamilton "For my own part, I sincerely esteem it a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." Alexander Hamilton "I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.". Alexander Hamilton Patrick Henry "We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations, and will raise up friends for us. The battle is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave . . . Is life so dear, or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry, in a speech March 23, 1775. "Whether this [new government] will prove a blessing or a curse will depend upon the use our people make of the blessings which a gracious God hath bestowed on us. If they are wise, they will be great and happy. If they are of a contrary character, they will be miserable. Righteousness alone can exalt them as a nation [Proverbs 14:34]. Reader! Whoever thou art, remember this, and in thy sphere practice virtue thyself and encourage it in others." Patrick Henry, Written on the back of Henry's Stamp Act "Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of the number; and, indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long, and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast." Patrick Henry, from a letter to his daughter in 1796 "The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed." Patrick Henry, Wirt Henry's, Life, vol. II, p. 621 "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry "Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Beside, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of Nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us." Patrick Henry John Jay "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." First Chief Justice of Supreme Court John Jay to Jedidiah Morse February 28, 1797 "God's will be done; to him I resign--in him I confide. Do the like. Any other philosophy applicable to this occasion is delusive. Away with it." John Jay, first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, in a letter to his wife, Sally Jay, April 20, 1794, reprinted in The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, ed. Henry P. Johnston (New York, NY: Burt Franklin, 1970), vol. 4, p. 7. "I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds . . ." John Jay, in a letter to Rev. Uzal Ogden, Feb. 14, 1796, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 203. "While in France . . . I do not recollect to have had more than two conversations with atheists about their tenants. The first was this: I was at a large party, of which were several of that description. They spoke freely and contemptuously of religion. I took no part in the conversation. In the course of it, one of them asked me if I believed in Christ? I answered that I did, and that I thanked God that I did." John Jay, in a letter to John Bristed, April 23, 1811, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 359. "The same merciful Providence has also been pleased to cause every material event and occurrence respecting our Redeemer, together with the gospel he proclaimed, and the miracles and predictions to which it gave occasion, to be faithfully recorded and preserved for the information and benefit of all mankind." John Jay, in an address to the American Bible Society, May 9, 1822, in CPPJJ, vol. 4, p. 480. John Marshall "The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it." John Marshall, in a letter to Jasper Adams, May 9, 1833, JSAC, p. 139. Marshall was Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1801-1835. Benjamin Rush "I have alternately been called an Aristocrat and a Democrat. I am neither. I am a Christocrat." Benjamin Rush "Let the children...be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education. The great enemy of the salvation of man, in my opinion, never invented a more effectual means of extirpating [removing] Christianity from the world than by persuading mankind that it was improper to read the Bible at schools." Benjamin Rush, The Father of American Medicine, and the Father of American Psychiatry "The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty- - -" Benjamin Rush, Letters of Benjamin Rush, L.H. Butterfield, editor, Princeton: The American Philosophical Society, 1951, Vol. I p. 414, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787 "It will be necessary to connect all these (academic) branches of education with regular instruction in the Christian religion." Benjamin Rush, Essays, Literary, Moral, and Philosophical, Philadelphia: Thomas & William Bradford, 1806, Ch. 'Thoughts upon Female Education' p. 82 Roger Sherman "I believe that there is only one living and true God - - - That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him." Lewis Henry Boutell, The Life of Roger Sherman (Chicago: A.C. McClurg and Co., 1896), pp. 272-273 David Barton, Original Intent (Aledo, TX: Wallbuilders, 2000) Ch. 6 p. 138 "Let us live no more to ourselves, but to Him who loved us, and gave Himself to die for us". M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company (Marlborough, NH, Plymouth Rock Foundation, 1982) p. 29 Joseph Storey "Christianity becomes not merely an auxiliary, but a guide, to the law of nature; establishing its conclusions, removing its doubts, and elevating its precepts." Joseph Story, "The Value and Importance of Legal Studies," a lecture delivered August 25, 1829 at his inauguration as Dane Professor of Law in Harvard University, cited in James McClellan, Joseph Story and the American Constitution (Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma, 1971), p. 66. Story served as Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1811-1845, and founded the Harvard Law School. "My own private judgment has long been (and every day's experience more and more confirms me in it) that government cannot long exist without an alliance with Religion to some extent, and that Christianity is indispensable to the true interests and solid foundation of all governments. . . . I know not, indeed, how any deep sense of moral obligation or accountableness can be expected to prevail in the community without a firm foundation of the great Christian truths." Joseph Story, in a letter to Jasper Adams, May 14, 1833, in JSAC, p. 139. "One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is, that Christianity is a part of the common law, from which it seeks the sanction of its rights, and by which it endeavours to regulate its doctrines. And, notwithstanding the specious objection of one of our distinguished statesmen, the boast is as true, as it is beautiful. There never has been a period, in which the common law did not recognise Christianity as lying at its foundations" Miscellaneous Writings, p.451, “The real object of the (First) Amendment was not to countenance, much less advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Chrisianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects (denominations).” Original Intent, by David Barton, ch. 2, p. 31, Wallbuilder Press, Aledo, TX, 1996; Commentaries, Story, Vol. III, p. 728, 1871 Noah Webster "The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His Apostles.... This is genuine Christianity and to this we owe our free constitutions of government." Noah Webster Daniel Webster "Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin." Daniel Webster "Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored by its hope." Daniel Webster As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   15:09:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #331. To: Liberator (#325) Somebody get MENSA on the horn. #%$&!*@! is the new language of intellectual illumination. Yes, Chef Ramsay would be proud:) As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   15:11:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #332. To: redleghunter, sneakypete, SJN, A K A Stone, Biff Tannen, TooConservative (#330) Yes, very interesting. Then the Founders were liars when they said the following about the Bible and Christianity:... Oooops. And we all realize this is merely a very partial list of kooky "fundies" and Christian "Taliban". Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   15:14:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #333. To: redleghunter (#331) Chef Ramsay would be proud:) Half that show is bleeps, lol. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   15:14:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #334. To: Biff Tannen (#328) Heading out for a weekend in the woods (without internet!!) See ya! Try posting something original, I'll try and read it when I get back. Watch out for those manure trucks Biff:) And what I posted was a redleghunter original. Still at two lines! Enjoy the woods and stay away from any livestock. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   15:17:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #335. To: Liberator, sneakypete, SJN, A K A Stone, Biff Tannen, TooConservative (#332) Oooops. And we all realize this is merely a very partial list of kooky "fundies" and Christian "Taliban". "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." President Thomas Jefferson Funny you should mention that. Most of the early and later Presidents were "fundie kooks" as well it seems. I am sure our politically correct police will no doubt be burning manuscripts and older history books. This is what our Presidents had to say: George Washington, "The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations." George Washington's letter of August 20, 1778 to Brig. General Thomas Nelson "Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee." George Washington's prayer at Valley Forge "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency...We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of heaven cannot be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which heaven itself has ordained." -- George Washington in his Inaugural Address, April 30, 1789 "Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States.." "...Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency" From President George Washington's Inaugural Address, April 30th, 1789, addressed to both Houses of Congress. "Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion."--George Washington, ca. 1789, Maxims of Washington, ed. John F. Schroeder (Mt. Vernon: Mt. Vernon Ladies Association, 1942), p. 106. "And now, Almighty Father, if it is Thy holy will that we shall we shall obtain a place and name among the nations of the Earth...:grant that we may be enabled to show our gratitude for Thy goodness by endeavors to fear and obey Thee." George Washington "The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country." General George Washington, July 9, 1776 "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports . . . And let us indulge with caution the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion . . . Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle." From President George Washington's Farewell Address "While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." George Washington--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343. John Adams, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: 'It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." President Adams, July 4, 1821 "The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were . . . the general principles of Christianity." John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813, The Adams-Jefferson Letters,ed. Lester J. Cappon (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1959), vol 2, pp. 339-40. "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams from his Oct. 13, 1789 address to the military. "Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there contained! Every member would be obliged in conscience to temperance, frugality and industry: to justice, kindness and charity towards his fellow men: and to piety, love and reverence toward Almighty God....What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." John Adams diary entry Feb. 22., 1756. "The Christian religion is, above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity. Let the Blackguard Paine say what he will; it is Resignation to God, it is Goodness itself to man." John Adams retorting to Thomas Paine in his diary, July 26, 1796. John Adams and John Hancock: "We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! " April 18, 1775 "A patriot without religion, in my estimation, is as great a paradox as an honest man without the fear of God. Is it possible that he whom no moral obligations bind, can have any real Good Will towards Men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society? ...The Scriptures tell us righteousness exalteth a Nation." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776. "...a true American Patriot must be a religious man...He who neglects his duty to his maker, may well be expected to be deficient and insincere in his duty towards the public." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776. "The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but the God of Israel is He that giveth strength and power unto His people. Trust in Him at all times, ye people, pour out your hearts before Him; God is a refuge for us." Abigal Adams, wife of President John Adams in letter to husband John Adams 1776. "Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, they may change their rulers and the forms of government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty." John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, dated June 21, 1776. "The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever." --Adams wrote this in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776. Thomas Jefferson, "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event." President Thomas Jefferson --Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237. "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." President Thomas Jefferson "Of all systems of morality, ancient of modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus." Thomas Jefferson To William Canby, 1813 "I hold the precepts of Jesus as delivered by Himself, to be the most pure, benevolent and sublime which have ever been preached to man..." President Thomas Jefferson “I have always said and always will say that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make better citizens, better fathers, better husbands... the Bible makes the best people in the world." President Thomas Jefferson "My views- - - are the result of a lifetime of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference of all others—" Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush On April 21, 1803 "God who gave us life, gave us liberty." Thomas Jefferson "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a cisciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator." Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his Bible. “Well aware… that Almighty God hath created the mind free… all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments… tend only to begat… hypocrisy… and are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of religion, who being Lord both of body and mind… chose not to propagate it by coercions… as was in his Almighty power to do, but to extend it by… reason alone " Thomas Jefferson's tombstone James Madison, At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22; “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us.” [Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater] "Before any man can be considered as a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe. And to the same Divine Author of every good and perfect gift [James 1:17] we are indebted for all those privileges and advantages, religious as well as civil, which are so richly enjoyed in this favored land." James Madison "Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ." James Madison - America's Providential History p. 93. "While we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe, the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to them whose minds have not yielded to the evidence which has convinced us." James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance (Massachusetts: Isaiah Thomas, 1786). This can be found in numerous documentary histories and other resources. The religion of divine origin was obviously Christianity, of which Madison said he was convinced. "Waiving the rights of conscience, not included in the surrender implied by the social state, & more or less invaded by all Religious establishments, the simple question to be decided, is whether a support of the best & purest religion, the Christian religion itself ought not, so far at least as pecuniary means are involved, to be provided for by the Government, rather than be left to the voluntary provisions of those who profess it." James Madison response to an essay/sermon by Reverend Jasper Adams. Religion and Politics in the Early Republic: Jasper Adams and the Church-State Debate, Daniel L. Dreisbach, ed. (Kentucky: University Press of Kentucky, 1996), p. 117. "Religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and, therefore, that all men should enjoy the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the magistrate, unless under color of religion any man disturb the peace, the happiness, or safety of society, and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other." James Madison, ca. 1789, cited in Gaillard Hunt, James Madison and Religious Liberty (Washington: American Historical Association, Government Printing Office, 1902), p. 166. • I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way. Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773) • In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible. “ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United States, said this: "We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government' far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the 10 commandments." "We have all been encourged to feel in the guardianship and guidance of that Almighty Being, whose power regulates the destiny of nations" . James Madison James Monroe, "When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good." --Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818. "The liberty, prosperity, and the happiness of our country will always be the object of my most fervent prayers to the Supreme Author of All Good." March 5, 1821 in his Second Inaugural Address John Quincy Adams, “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"? President John Quincy Adams, July 4th, 1837 when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts "It is no slight testimonial, both to the merit and worth of Christianity, that in all ages since its promulgation the great mass of those who have risen to eminence by their profound wisdom and integrity have recognized and reverenced Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the living God." President John Quincy Adams "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were.... the general principles of Christianity." President John Quincy Adams "My custom is to read four or five chapters of the Bible every morning immediately after rising... It seems to me the most suitable manner of beginning the day... It is an invaluable and inexhaustible mine of knowledge and virtue." President John Quincy Adams "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." - John Quincy Adams, July 4, 1821 "The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)." --Life of John Quincy Adams, p. 248. Andrew Jackson, "The Bible is the Rock on which this Republic rests." President Andrew Jackson Abraham Lincoln, America’s sixteenth president, who died on a Good Friday, was a devoted Bible reader but never joined a church. In a youth of near poverty, the Bible was one of the few books Lincoln owned. When he became president, its words and phrases found their way into many of his speeches. Earlier, a broken engagement had caused him much pain, and Lincoln declared that his Bible was "the best cure for the blues." Lincoln also said that "this Great Book is the best gill God has given to man." When his wife, Mary, urged harsh measures for the defeated Confederacy, Lincoln quoted Jesus’ words to her, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to man. All the good from the Savior (Jesus) of the world is communicated to us through this book. Abraham Lincoln “I am profitably engaged in reading the Bible. Take all of this Book upon reason that you can, and the balance by faith, and you will live and die a better man." Abraham Lincoln Lincoln’s famous words, speaking of the slavery issue in America, were, "A house divided against itself cannot stand." He was quoting from Luke 11:17, in which Jesus’ enemies claimed Jesus could cast out demons because He was in league with the devil himself Jesus replied, "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth" (KJV) "It is the duty of nations as well as of men to owe their dependence on the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow...yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon." Abraham Lincoln President Lincoln, a devoted Bible reader, claimed the Bible moved him to issue his Emancipation Proclamation, freeing America’s slaves, in 1863. He noted especially the words of Exodus 6:5: "I [God] have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage" (KJV). Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address "Fellow countrymen: At this second appearing to take the oath of the Presidential office, there is less occasion for an extended address than there was at the first...The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as to myself; and it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured... "Neither party expected for the war, the magnitude, or the duration, which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with, or even before, the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and as a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other...The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully...If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope - fervently do we pray - that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said 'The judgements of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.' "With malice toward none; charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations." Immediately afterwards, Lincoln kissed the Bible, bowed, and retired from the platform. Abraham Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address, March 4th, 1865. "Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance, are still competent to adjust, in the best way, all our present difficulty". "The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next." "The only assurance of our nation's safety is to lay our foundation in morality and religion." Theodore Roosevelt, “To every man who faces life with real desire to do his part in everything, I appeal for a study of the Bible." President Theodore Roosevelt Woodrow Wilson, "America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. Ladies and gentlemen, I have a very simple thing to ask of you. I as of every man and woman in this audience that from this night on they will realize that part of the destiny of America lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Scripture." Woodrow Wilson, 1911, pre-Presidential campaign speech. “I have a very simple thing to ask of you. I ask every man and woman in this audience that from this day on they will realize that part of the destiny of America lies in their daily perusal of this great Book (the Bible)." President Woodrow Wilson Herbert Hoover, "The study of the Bible is a post-graduate course in the richest library of human experience." President Herbert Hoover Harry Truman, "The fundamental basis of this nation's law was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in the right for anybody except the state. President Harry S. Truman As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-06-29   15:26:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #336. To: redleghunter (#335) I've posted much of what you have posted here in the past, though probably not in such quantity. The haters of Christ will refuse to see that it was through the Grace of God that this nation came to be and it will only be through the grace of God that she will continue. When a nation turns it's back on God, you can be sure swift destruction to follow. Good Job! SJN  posted on  2012-06-29   17:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #337. To: Liberator (#317) I'm not wasting my time with you as you continue creating your own insane reality. MY "insane reality"? Which one of us worships a mythical being? Which one of us believes in virgin birth? Which one of us believes in life after death? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   18:59:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #338. To: Liberator (#321) You mean Christian "fundies" = Taliban.... Yes,that is exactly what I mean. Have you ANY idea how ignorant and dopey this makes you look?? Nowhere near as dopey as those so blind they try to deny it. I guess you are going to say you never heard a Minister talk about "killing a commie for Christ!" back in the 60's? But it is irrefutable that the Founders of this America by and large were INDEED Christians - many devout. Yeah,just like my army records kept identifying ME as a Christian,despite me changing my religious affiliation to "Heathen" after having a Catholic Chaplain tell me I was a Heathen because I wouldn't join his cult. I kept changing it back every time I got my hands on my records,and somebody kept changing it back to Christian. I still have my "Heathen" dog tags,though. The ONLY reason the nation is now an EPIC FAIL is exactly because Christian ethics and principles were shoved out the door - beginning in the early 1960s. No,it's because narrow-minded fools like you allowed yourselves to be played in order to vote for the "God-Fearing candidates",like Boy Jorge Bush. You voted for what was good for your church,not what was good for the country. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:07:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #339. To: Liberator (#323) This is why you see nothing but circular reasoning, irrationality, lies, Alinsky-ist debating techniques, and TOTAL avoidance of YOUR case & points. That's always your defensive response when you are losing. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:08:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #340. To: redleghunter (#324) And yes, I DO consider the homosexual lobby as a religion. They are taking a private practice and wanting it made into the law of the land. That is forced acceptance. They preach their "gospel" under the cloak of "tolerance" and "health" education in our schools. While Christians are not allowed to have a Bible within a city block of a school. They do have their "high priests" and "clerics" who do not reside in marble cathedrals but sitting on the steps of the US Congress and they are called lobbyists. That has to be some of the lamest shit I have ever read. Are you REALLY that insecure about your religious beliefs that you think homosexuality is going to become more popular and powerful? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:10:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #341. To: redleghunter (#327) The true meaning of tolerance is this: you have a position, I have a position, we do not agree with each other's position but depart peacefully. What comes after this is called acceptance. Acceptance would be we have opposing views and one of us backs down and "accepts" the other's position as their own. That's the same place my eyes glazed over before. It's moronic. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #342. To: redleghunter (#330) More copy and paste bullshit "snap shots in time" of various letters written during these mens long lives to highlight a religious belief. Churches have been pushing this propaganda since the country was founded. It's a propaganda piece,comrade! Some of those men were genuinely true believers their whole lives. Others were believers of convenience in order to get along without persecution,and others changed their minds later on. And of course no church newsletter is going to include any of this. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:17:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #343. To: Liberator (#332) And we all realize this is merely a very partial list of kooky "fundies" and Christian "Taliban". Remind me again when the Founding Fathers wanted religions laws to be the law of the land,loser. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:18:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #344. To: redleghunter (#335) WOW! And all of that is original to you,huh? Isn't that another claim you are making? Do you REALLY think this is the first time I have seen that shit? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:20:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #345. To: SJN (#336) (Edited) And we all realize this is merely a very partial list of kooky "fundies" and Christian "Taliban". Impossible! Everything he posts is original to him. I know this because he said so right on this thread. The haters of Christ will refuse to see that it was through the Grace of God that this nation came to be and it will only be through the grace of God that she will continue What does God have against all those other people? Maybe they are all homos? Has anybody tried to tell your God that according to legend his only boy (born by another man's wife who we are supposed to believe was a virgin,btw) only hung out with hairly-legged men and talked about how we should all "Love your fellow man!?" Sounds to me like that Jesus fella might have been a homo. You should have him investigated. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:21:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #346. To: sneakypete (#342) Some of those men were genuinely true believers their whole lives. Others were believers of convenience in order to get along without persecution,and others changed their minds later on. Prove it fool. SJN  posted on  2012-06-29   19:21:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #347. To: sneakypete (#345) I think there is only one person that you hate more than Christ and that's yourself. SJN  posted on  2012-06-29   19:22:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #348. To: SJN (#346) Prove it fool. Did the voices in your head tell you to write that? Or maybe you had a vision? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:25:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #349. To: SJN (#347) I think there is only one person that you hate more than Christ and that's yourself. I don't hate Christ. He's dead. I hate the superstitious fools that want to run the world according to their superstitious beliefs. They used to burn non- believers in pots of boiling oil or at the stake,and if they/you had the chance,you would do it again. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   19:27:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #350. To: sneakypete (#348) You said there were founders that for expedient sake went along to get along and changed their minds on their Christian beliefs later. Prove it. SJN  posted on  2012-06-29   19:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #351. To: sneakypete (#349) Hey, some people still cut the heads off of unbelievers, chop off hands and feet. Some people used to be thrown in to volcanoes to appease the Gods. The one constant theme through out humanity is the belief in something outside of themselves whether that be wrong or not. SJN  posted on  2012-06-29   19:29:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #352. To: All (#350) www.lonang.com/exlibris/locke/ Learn a little something. SJN  posted on  2012-06-29   19:32:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #353. To: redleghunter, sneakypete (#335) THAT is a keeper, Red. You've done yeoman's work.. Excellent citations which ridicule the claim that America's Founders were NOT by and large Christian - aka in Pete's OWN words: "Taliban" and "fundies". It should also be noted that even IF some of the Founders of America were not devoutly Christian nor attended church, they publicly recognized and admitted the importance AND necessity of a Christian-ethic and moral system within our governance in order for their Republic to thrive - never mind survive. These Founders and their respective advocacy of Christianity were NOT invoked or written under duress (as suggested by Pete) while any claim of coercion is utterly ludicrous. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   20:19:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #354. To: SJN, sneakypete (#346) Pete: "Some of those men [America's Founders] were genuinely true believers their whole lives. Others were believers of convenience in order to get along without persecution,and others changed their minds later on." Prove it fool. "Persecution"?? Ya gotta be kidding me. These Christian Founders went out of their way to be (wait for the *IRONY*.....) tolerant. This is why from the very beginning there was no State Religion. Meanwhile, I'm sure Pete will be scouring Google for all that proof that the first American "fundie" and Taliban" coerced their co-Founders to say kind words about the Bible, God, and Jesus Christ...OR ELSE. Tick-tick-tick..... Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   20:28:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #355. To: sneakypete (#256) "They may be normal for homosexuals and bi-sexuals,but they sure as hell wouldn't be normal for me." Nor me, but people who are living normal lives with jobs, school and everything else the same as everyone else with the small exception of a different gender orientation do not deserved to be viciously villified and should not be discriminated against. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-29   21:37:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #356. To: Liberator (#269) "...has universally ALWAYS operated within the closet." Wrong. You need to do some very basic research, and you will easily see this is most certainly not so. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-29   21:40:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #357. To: Ferret Mike (#356) "Within ANY society, homosexuality ...has universally ALWAYS operated within the closet." Wrong. You need to do some very basic research, and you will easily see this is most certainly not so. Ok, I'll exclude Sodom and Gomorrah.... .....recent Frisco Gay Parades, Gay Day at Disney, and militant "We Proud, We're Loud, and We're In Your Face" street orgies and protests. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   22:07:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #358. To: Ferret Mike (#355) People...of a different gender orientation do not deserved to be and viciously vilified.... Who are YOU to dictate to and define the right of those to "viciously vilify"? Is the First Amendment in effect it is it not? Oh wait - the opinions of Christians, aka "Taliban" and "Fundies" - and intolerance and bigotry targeted against THEM - is ok, huh? ...and should not be discriminated against. Gays are treated like slaves and blacks during the 1940s and 1950s. Somehow I've missed this... Tell me Mike - do you believe certain people...say GAY people should have "Special Rights"? Why is an identical crime committed against both a queer and a straight person treated DIFFERENTLY under the law of the land? Do you believe that is fair? What of "Hate Speech" and "Hate Crimes"? ANY fair-minded, intellectually honest person realizes this is legalized DISCRIMINATION - as is ANY job preference or quota system BASED ON color, creed, race, OR gender. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-29   22:23:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #359. To: Ferret Mike (#355) Nor me, but people who are living normal lives with jobs, school and everything else the same as everyone else with the small exception of a different gender orientation do not deserved to be viciously villified and should not be discriminated against. There are murderers who are living normal lives with jobs, school and everthing else the same as everyone else with the small execption of a different perspective on if killing someone is right. Afterall some in society say killing babies is ok. So killing adults is ok too right? There are pedophiles who are living normal lives with jobs, school and everything else (think sandusky) the same as everyone with the small exception of a different age orientation and do not deserve to be viciously vilified and should not be discriminated against. I just demonstrated that the "points" you "made" in no way demonstrates that queers are just normal people. Unless you think pedophiles are too. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-29   22:23:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #360. To: SJN (#351) The one constant theme through out humanity is the belief in something outside of themselves whether that be wrong or not. And there you have it. To the believers is about faith,not being right or wrong. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   23:06:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #361. To: Liberator (#354) Meanwhile, I'm sure Pete will be scouring Google for all that proof that the first American "fundie" and Taliban" coerced their co-Founders to say kind words about the Bible, God, and Jesus Christ...OR ELSE. Wrong. I went thought this maybe 20 years ago,and learned that no amount of evidence in the world will convince people who operate off of faith that they are wrong. I could dig all that up again and it would change nothing. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-29   23:08:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #362. To: A K A Stone (#359) I just demonstrated that the "points" you "made" in no way demonstrates that queers are just normal people. You are about as abnormal as they come, Stone. Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-29   23:49:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #363. To: Liberator (#358) What of "Hate Speech" and "Hate Crimes"? ANY fair-minded, intellectually honest person realizes this is legalized DISCRIMINATION - as is ANY job preference or quota system BASED ON color, creed, race, OR gender. Every application or document I fill out, or have filled out for the last decade I refuse to mark my race. Have you noticed that usually it is anything to do with the Gov. that want's to know your race? Census, etc. If we are a nation of laws in which every INDIVIDUAL is subject. It doesn't matter race, religion, or the desire to screw the same sex. SJN  posted on  2012-06-30   0:03:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #364. To: sneakypete (#360) And there you have it. To the believers is about faith,not being right or wrong. Idiot. Now go prove your statement that the founding fathers changed their opinions or religion. SJN  posted on  2012-06-30   0:04:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #365. To: sneakypete (#360) You said there were founders that for expedient sake went along to get along and changed their minds on their Christian beliefs later. Prove it. SJN  posted on  2012-06-30   0:05:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #366. To: sneakypete (#361) will convince people who operate off of faith You are so blinded by your hate that you deny evidence through out the ages. You're too foolish for words. SJN  posted on  2012-06-30   0:07:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #367. To: Fred Mertz (#362) Are you for "fag marriage" Fred? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-30   1:27:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #368. To: A K A Stone (#367) Do you deny homosexuals exist, have existed and will continue to exist? Do you want to stone them to death, Mr. Taliban? Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-30   1:32:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #369. To: Fred Mertz (#368) Do you deny homosexuals exist, have existed and will continue to exist? Do you want to stone them to death, Mr. Taliban? No don't deny it exists. Why the dumb question? No I don't deny it will continue to exist. Another dumb question. No I don't want to stone them to death. Taliban?? Don't be stupid. Now answer my original question. With the additional question if you think teachers in school should teach your grand kids that it is normal. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-30   1:36:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #370. To: A K A Stone (#369) Now answer my original question. If they want to be as miserable as most married couples, let them have at it. Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-30   1:41:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #371. To: Fred Mertz (#370) If they want to be as miserable as most married couples, let them have at it. Is that your serious answer? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-30   1:44:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #372. To: Fred Mertz (#362) "You are about as abnormal as they come, Stone." ' He is totally insane and in love with his strange rationalizations. He has no brains to back up his hubris with. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-06-30   2:41:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #373. To: Ferret Mike (#372) He's run all of the wimmens away. He's a total loOser. Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-06-30   2:56:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #374. To: SJN (#365) You said there were founders that for expedient sake went along to get along and changed their minds on their Christian beliefs later. Prove it. Prove God exists,retard. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-30   9:08:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #375. To: SJN (#366) You're too foolish for words. Which one of us has a life that revolves around a mythical character and believes in virgin birth,life after death,etc,etc,etc? Guess what,Buckwheat. When you die they bury or cremate you,and that's the end of it for you for all of eternity. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-30   9:11:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #376. To: sneakypete (#374) Prove God exists,retard. I get you now. You are one of those evolutionists that like to fuck monkeys. Ok monkey fucker. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-06-30   9:12:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #377. To: A K A Stone (#376) I get you now. You are one of those evolutionists that like to fuck monkeys. Ok monkey fucker. What does that make you,one of those thumpers that likes to fuck the children of God that were created in his image? Do you make them shave first? Does God know about this? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-30   9:26:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #378. To: SJN (#363) (Edited) Every application or document I fill out, or have filled out for the last decade I refuse to mark my race. Have you noticed that usually it is anything to do with the Gov. that want's to know your race? Census, etc. If we are a nation of laws in which every INDIVIDUAL is subject. It doesn't matter race, religion, or the desire to screw the same sex. I've also noticed the .gov wants to know what I've had for breakfast...and color of my feces. (I NEVER check THAT box, lol). You're right - in a nation of individuals demographic info like financial, race, color, sexual preference, and creed mean nothing....except that this info helps politicians find out who mostly to pander. Liberator  posted on  2012-06-30   10:37:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #379. To: Fred Mertz, A K A Stone (#368) Do you want to stone them to death, Mr. Taliban? And Stone is "Mr. Taliban"...why, again? Because he's Christian OR won't bend over as you demand, Fred? Liberator  posted on  2012-06-30   10:39:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #380. To: A K A Stone, Fred Mertz (#371) (Edited) Fred where are you today? Stone...seen Fred today? I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one... war  posted on  2012-06-30   17:22:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #381. To: sneakypete (#377) Hey Sneak...drinking a PBR right now... I'll believe that a corporation is a person 1 second after Texas executes one... war  posted on  2012-06-30   17:23:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #382. To: war (#381) Hey Sneak...drinking a PBR right now... They still make that stuff??? I figured you would drink some some of the local fare like Ithaca or Checker Cab.... Political Bumper Stickers: The fastest way in the world to let people know you are a total dumbass.... Total number of Obama 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far......5.. Total number of Romney 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far...0.. Total number of Obama vs GW Bush 2012 bumper stickers....2!! CZ82  posted on  2012-06-30   17:37:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #383. To: war (#381) Hey Sneak. Hey,yourself. ..drinking a PBR right now...<< Couldn't find anything else? Yeah,it's better than Budweizer,but so is everything else. Next time look around for some Miller High Life in a frosty bottle. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-30   19:26:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #384. To: CZ82 (#382) I figured you would drink some some of the local fare like Ithaca or Checker Cab.... I could maybe give Ithaca a shot,but sane people drink beer named Checker Cab? Do they have a specific amount of urine and vomit in each bottle? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-06-30   19:27:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #385. To: sneakypete (#384) Do they have a specific amount of urine and vomit in each bottle? If it was brewed in the back seat of a Checker Cab then I would have to say yes!! LOL.... Political Bumper Stickers: The fastest way in the world to let people know you are a total dumbass.... Total number of Obama 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far......5.. Total number of Romney 2012 bumper stickers I've seen so far...0.. Total number of Obama vs GW Bush 2012 bumper stickers....2!! CZ82  posted on  2012-06-30   19:39:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #386. To: A K A Stone (#359) "There are murderers who are living normal lives with jobs, school and everthing else the same as everyone else with the small exception of a different perspective on if killing someone is right. After all some in society say killing babies is ok. So killing adults is ok too right?" Sex is more then a perception of how reality should be. Without consent it is a crime of violence. I don't see where I ever called for rape to be legal, Stone. Two adults freely involved in a relationship enrages you if you do not approve of it. You sit there and wish violence on people and express hatred of them because you disapprove. But your disapproval and hatred is a form of cultural perversion every bit as distasteful and uncalled for as murder is. You fall down on the point of the difference between the two things you compare. Murder will never be acceptable; neither will the concept of people forcing their ideas of what constitutes a bond between two people in a meaningful and enduring way on them by others. Basically Stone,if you don't want a relationship with another man, by all means, don't have one. And if others are led there by their own passions and hearts, put the weapons of hate and intolerance down; the only one sounding and acting like a cruel and hateful in any discussion here on this topic is you. Get out of the bedroom of other people. What you do in regards to wishing to strong arm control of others by any means necessary is Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-07-01   11:47:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #387. To: A K A Stone (#359) "There are murderers who are living normal lives with jobs, school and everthing else the same as everyone else with the small exception of a different perspective on if killing someone is right. After all some in society say killing babies is ok. So killing adults is ok too right?" Sex is more then a perception of how reality should be. Without consent it is a crime of violence. I don't see where I ever called for rape to be legal, Stone. Two adults freely involved in a relationship enrages you if you do not approve of it. You sit there and wish violence on people and express hatred of them because you disapprove. But your disapproval and hatred is a form of cultural perversion every bit as distasteful and uncalled for as murder is. You fall down on the point of the difference between the two things you compare. Murder will never be acceptable; neither will the concept of people forcing their ideas of what constitutes a bond between two people in a meaningful and enduring way on them by others. Basically Stone,if you don't want a relationship with another man, by all means, don't have one. And if others are led there by their own passions and hearts, put the weapons of hate and intolerance down; the only one sounding and acting like a cruel and hateful in any discussion here on this topic is you. Get out of the bedroom of other people. What you do in regards to wishing to strong arm control of others by any means necessary is what the problem here is. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-07-01   11:48:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #388. To: Ferret Mike (#386) Two adults freely involved in a relationship enrages you if you do not approve of it. You sit there and wish violence on people and express hatred of them because you disapprove. When queer freaks try to pass it off as normal to kids. They deserve the death penalty. That includes you. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-07-01   11:49:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #389. To: Ferret Mike (#387) Murder will never be acceptable; That is why the NIGGER you did vote for has murdered people with drones and he is for child murder like most all democrats. A K A Stone  posted on  2012-07-01   11:50:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #390. To: A K A Stone (#155) To: Ferret Mike Would you change your name to the faggot crusader? Would you change yours to stupid dipshit? meguro  posted on  2012-07-01   16:45:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #391. To: SJN (#336) Thanks, could use you back at LP. The Orthodox crowd misses your perspective:) As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-03   14:29:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #392. To: sneakypete (#341) The true meaning of tolerance is this: you have a position, I have a position, we do not agree with each other's position but depart peacefully. What comes after this is called acceptance. Acceptance would be we have opposing views and one of us backs down and "accepts" the other's position as their own. That's the same place my eyes glazed over before. It's moronic. And of course you cede defeat, given you have nothing in which to respond to my comments. Insults don't count bubba. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-03   14:31:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #393. To: sneakypete (#342) More copy and paste bullshit "snap shots in time" of various letters written during these mens long lives to highlight a religious belief. Churches have been pushing this propaganda since the country was founded. It's a propaganda piece,comrade! Some of those men were genuinely true believers their whole lives. Others were believers of convenience in order to get along without persecution,and others changed their minds later on. And of course no church newsletter is going to include any of this. There is plenty of white space here, so show quotes where they denounced their faith or were later to be called liars. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-03   14:33:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #394. To: sneakypete (#344) WOW! And all of that is original to you,huh? Isn't that another claim you are making? Do you REALLY think this is the first time I have seen that shit? Must have been the first time pete, because what you post shows you did not have a clue. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-03   14:34:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #395. To: redleghunter (#392) And of course you cede defeat, Yeah,your perception is truly amazing. I guess it must have escaped your limited attention,but I have never came to accept your delusions as truth,even though I firmly believe you have a right to them if that's what makes you happy. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-03   19:27:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #396. To: redleghunter (#393) There is plenty of white space here, so show quotes where they denounced their faith or were later to be called liars. Why? You will just deny it. You deal in faith,not facts. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-03   19:28:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #397. To: sneakypete (#395) Yeah,your perception is truly amazing. Lol, truly . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-03   21:37:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #398. To: TooConservative, sneakypete (#182) And people like pete bring their gay buddies like meguro along for the ride. Ahhhh... Do sneaky and I get your panties in a wad and make you cry, champ? Boo-hoo... Sniffle, sniffle. meguro  posted on  2012-07-03   21:38:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #399. To: Biff Tannen, sneakypete (#397) Are you laffing because you don't believe in immaculate conception? Why can't you just believe and shaddup? What is wrong with you? The devil got your soul? buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-03   21:42:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #400. To: TooConservative (#199) To: Fred Mertz, A K A Stone You just went to #1 on my a-hole list. He should ban you too. Maybe we should call you RimJob Lite, champ. meguro  posted on  2012-07-03   21:42:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #401. To: TooConservative (#182) "It transforms free speech into primarily a freedom to blare their hate speech at everyone." As a combat veteran who was in an elite combat arms unit, Pete has earned the right to speak his piece. What you hate about Pete is he comes about his opinions honestly by actually using his mind to absorb information and talking intelligently about it. To a party hack one horse pony who squeaks the rightie line, such a man would be an afford to you. I feel your pain ToCo , and don't give a rip you suffer it. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-07-03   23:08:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #402. To: sneakypete (#396) Why? You will just deny it. You deal in faith,not facts. You as yet have not shown any facts to back your thesis what so ever. So I guess we must go on 'faith' that you know what you're talking about. lol SJN  posted on  2012-07-03   23:20:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #403. To: Ferret Mike, TooConservative (#401) To a party hack one horse pony who squeaks the rightie line I don't think you understood TooConservative at all. But, tomorrow the sparklers go off! buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-03   23:28:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #404. To: buckeroo (#403) (Edited) Inappropriate gross comment removed. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-07-03   23:47:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #405. To: Ferret Mike (#404) lol ewwww SJN  posted on  2012-07-03   23:49:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #406. To: Ferret Mike, (#404) As a combat veteran who was in an elite combat arms unit, Pete has earned the right to speak his piece. Geez.... you are starting to suck sharing credentials. Hey! I want to hear more about the time you threw a grenade at a "rockape" in South Vietnam. Oh, you didn't do that? Whoops! buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-03   23:52:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #407. To: redleghunter (#391) Thanks, could use you back at LP. The Orthodox crowd misses your perspective:) That's nice to know! Thank you and tell them thank you as well! SJN  posted on  2012-07-04   0:00:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #408. To: buckeroo (#406) I went in in 1976. Throwing a grenade in Ho Chi Ming City a year after Saigon fell and was renamed wouldn't have done me much good in my period I was first in the U.S. Army as a helicopter mechanic in the 82nd Airborne Division. I got out and discovered SF in the 1980s when I went back to playing in the military. By then, Phil Knight of Nike who was once one of Oregon track guru Bill Bowerman's runner clique had opened factories in Vietnam outsourcing jobs there. Throwing a grenade there would make even less sense then, as interfering with outsourcing jobs is a grave crime in some Republican circles. Why, if I did it now as a civilian I'm sure I would be mugged by the TSA and Homeland Security both for my traitorous nature. So let's forget about throwing grenades in Vietnam please. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-07-04   0:06:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #409. To: Ferret Mike (#408) You were in the USAF, correct? Strange post, Mikey... here, I shall give some cheer for the good ol' days. buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-04   0:16:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #410. To: buckeroo (#409) I wasin the U.S. Army, which has beaucoup helicopters. I was never really interested in the U.S. Air Force. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-07-04   9:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #411. To: Ferret Mike (#408) A K A Stone  posted on  2012-07-04   10:04:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #412. To: A K A Stone (#411) Amazing dude, you found one of my all time favorite songs and performers. This song's core story isabout the great Buddy Holly's death in a plane crash. Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-07-04   10:12:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #413. To: Ferret Mike (#412) The you might be interested in this. Maybe you can post it. http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/stop-the-presses/don-mclean-american-pie-20-things-might-not-212950674.html A K A Stone  posted on  2012-07-04   10:15:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #414. To: Ferret Mike (#412) Amazing dude, you found one of my all time favorite songs and performers. This song's core story isabout the great Buddy Holly's death in a plane crash. 9. But McLean also expressed disappointment that the Holly references were all some people got out of the tune. "The fact that Buddy Holly seems to be the primary thing that people talk about when they talk about 'American Pie' is kind of sad. But fine with me," he said in a radio interview. "Because only the beginning is about Buddy Holly, and the rest of it goes on and talks about America and politics and the country, and trying to catch some kind of a special feeling that I had about my country, especially in 1970 and '71, when it was very turbulent." A K A Stone  posted on  2012-07-04   10:16:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #415. To: buckeroo (#399) The devil got your soul? Yeah,that must be it. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   13:25:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #416. To: Ferret Mike (#401) As a combat veteran who was in an elite combat arms unit, Pete has earned the right to speak his piece. I disagree. As an AMERICAN I have earned my right to speak my piece. With me it is always about America and the Bill of RIGHTS,first,last,and always. It's what separates us all from the REAL Heathens in the world. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   13:28:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #417. To: SJN (#402) So I guess we must go on 'faith' that you know what you're talking about. Yeah,I do. Then again,I have an advantage over you. There are no voices arguing in my head to get me confused. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   13:29:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #418. To: buckeroo (#403) But, tomorrow the sparklers go off! I'm betting Fire Island,Yu-Tard,and the rest of the glitter brigade are as giddy as schoolgirls today. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   13:31:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #419. To: sneakypete (#416) I disagree. As an AMERICAN I have earned my right to speak my piece. With me it is always about America and the Bill of RIGHTS,first,last,and always. It's what separates us all from the REAL Heathens in the world. HEAR! HEAR! ;) "A friend will calm you down when you are angry, but a best friend will skip beside you with a baseball bat singing, "someone's gonna get it" Murron  posted on  2012-07-04   13:32:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #420. To: SJN, redleghunter (#407) The Orthodox crowd misses your perspective:) ROFLMAO! The Orthodox crowd doesn't HAVE any perspective that isn't issued to them. You are like mindless parrots,babbling whatever nonsense is taught to you without even thinking about what you are saying. Because like your leftie pals that are honest enough to vote Dim,you go by FEELINGS,not thinking. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   13:35:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #421. To: Ferret Mike (#408) Throwing a grenade there would make even less sense then, as interfering with outsourcing jobs is a grave crime in some Republican circles. Why, if I did it now as a civilian I'm sure I would be mugged by the TSA and Homeland Security both for my traitorous nature. It's amazing how circular political dogma can be,isn't it? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   13:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #422. To: sneakypete (#417) All you have are insults. You haven't backed up your statement with a fact, any shred of evidence what so ever. You're a God hating blow hard. That's all there is to your mouth breathing wheezing self. SJN  posted on  2012-07-04   15:10:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #423. To: SJN (#422) (Edited) All you have are insults. lol You get mad at him because he refuses to change his worldview to yours and you start insulting him. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-04   15:50:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #424. To: Biff Tannen (#423) If you've been following this thread, you'd know what I and others have referred to. Which was a statement from Pete that some of the founders changed their minds on their Christianity and only went along to get along, as it were. We've challenged him to prove his thesis. Thus far it's been dead air, except for the insults. SJN  posted on  2012-07-04   17:10:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #425. To: Biff Tannen (#423) lol You get mad at him because he refuses to change his worldview to yours and you start insulting him. . And there it is. They also get mad because they can't trick you into spending hours or even days researching and posting data they will then ignore. I don't work for any of those people,and if they want me to do any research they need to pay me. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   18:54:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #426. To: sneakypete (#425) And there it is. Where? In your outhouse? You're a joke. And legend in your own alleged mind. Liberator  posted on  2012-07-04   22:19:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #427. To: SJN, Biffy, sneakypete (#424) (Edited) f you've been following this thread, you'd know what I and others have referred to. Which was a statement from Pete that some of the founders changed their minds on their Christianity and only went along to get along, as it were. LOL - wait; Are you referring to Biffy? Following an actual conversation? Using his entire brain wattage of a Firefly in August? Nope. NEVER HAPPENING. This is a guy whose idea of an intellectual exercise is driving his van down by the river, doing a four warm six-packs in 24 hours, reading mildew-coated 30 year-old "girlie magazines", peeing on his bald tires to "give them life!!", and then heading back to HQ: Mommy's Basement. We've challenged him [Pete the Atheist-Bible Scholar] to prove his thesis. Thus far it's been dead air, except for the insults. And we've seen a brilliant rebuttal too. *snicker* Liberator  posted on  2012-07-04   22:30:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #428. To: Murron (#419) HEAR! HEAR! ;) Wanna re-examine what you're "HEAR-HEARING" about, "heathen"? ;-) Liberator  posted on  2012-07-04   22:33:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #429. To: Ferret Mike, TooConservative, redleghunter, SJN, sneakypete (#401) As a combat veteran who was in an elite combat arms unit, Pete has earned the right to speak his piece. So...in YOUR opinion ALL who serve have MORE First Amendment "rights" then anyone else? Where do you make up this crap? What you hate about Pete is he comes about his opinions honestly by actually using his mind to absorb information and talking intelligently about it. HUH?? Pete knows ZIP about the Bible OR Scripture, or the concept of God. Tell me - how then can he "talk intelligently" about a subject of which he is utterly ignorant? (not that you don't have a vested interest in defending the anti-Christian as an anti-Christian yourself, Warlock....Btw - Are you good witch or a bad witch, eh?) Liberator  posted on  2012-07-04   22:40:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #430. To: Liberator (#426) You're a joke. And legend in your own alleged mind. WOW! Seems like it was just last week I was one of your favorite posters. Just a minute.....,it WAS last week. Then I made some posts about the dogma of your religious cult that you disagreed with,and suddenly I'm stupid. Typical "Christian". Life ruled by hatred and superstition,and looking for vengeance against anyone who disagrees. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   23:47:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #431. To: Liberator (#428) Wanna re-examine what you're "HEAR-HEARING" about, "heathen"? ;-) Is God telling you to be a drama queen? Enquiring minds,and all that. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   23:49:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #432. To: Liberator (#429) (Edited) how then can he "talk intelligently" about a subject of which he is utterly ignorant? A better question might be "How can anyone talk intelligently about a subject based on superstition,fear,and lies?" Tell us all again about your moral God impregnating another man's wife with his child,and then allowing his child to be murdered. A God with 7 deadly sins that will send his followers to burn in hell for eternity,while calling himself a "Jealous God". Yup,sounds loving and caring to me! "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-04   23:53:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #433. To: sneakypete (#430) WOW! Seems like it was just last week I was one of your favorite posters. Just a minute.....,it WAS last week. Yeah...and then you stopped taking your medication. Good luck with that script renewal. You're insane. Liberator  posted on  2012-07-05   0:02:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #434. To: sneakypete (#430) Typical "Christian". Life ruled by hatred and superstition,and looking for vengeance against anyone who disagrees. "Vengeance"?? LOL! I believe you're confusing that with "ridicule". Hey - You're saying your piece *with* peace. Stop being so paranoid, you anti-Christian kook. Liberator  posted on  2012-07-05   0:05:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #435. To: sneakypete (#432) Tell us all again about your moral God impregnating another man's wife with his child,and then allowing his child to be murdered. You're ignorance of the Bible is stunning! But your kookiness is so cute! Hey - tell us again how your Official Atheists' Handbook explains how Something creates itself out of Nothing. Thanks. Liberator  posted on  2012-07-05   0:09:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #436. To: Liberator (#433) You're insane. Really? Which one of us believes in virgin birth,hears voices,and thinks there is life after death? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-05   0:31:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #437. To: Liberator (#435) Tell us all again about your moral God impregnating another man's wife with his child,and then allowing his child to be murdered. You're ignorance of the Bible is stunning! Ok,so correct me. Doesn't the Holy Bible claim that God was the father of Jesus? Yes,or no? Wasn't the mother of Jesus married to another man? Yes,or no? On top of that,wasn't she married to another man and supposed to have still be a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus? Yes,or no? Hey - tell us again how your Official Atheists' Handbook explains how Something creates itself out of Nothing. Actually,that would by your Big Ranger in the Sky that claims to have created the whole universe out of nothing. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-05   0:35:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #438. To: sneakypete (#436) Which one of us believes in virgin birth,hears voices,and thinks there is life after death? Which one of us believe "Fundies" control the goobermint, blames they diarrhea on Fundies, believes Fundies affect queers "rights" to screw each other, and hears voices telling you "FUNDIES FUNDIES FUNDIES!!!! TALIBAN TALIBAN TALIBAN!!!" Which one of us believes NOTHING made SOMETHING (us) for NO REASON? Liberator  posted on  2012-07-05   0:40:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #439. To: sneakypete (#437) Keep on trucking, son! Pretty soon you'll start at Genesis: "IN THE BEGINNING...." I'm proud of ya! Liberator  posted on  2012-07-05   0:41:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #440. To: sneakypete (#432) A better question might be "How can anyone talk intelligently about a subject based on superstition,fear,and lies?" HUNDREDS of eye-witnesses at the time say otherwise. But because Anderson Cooper or Geraldo weren't there, YOU don't believe it, don't understand it, won't consider the evidence, and won't do either no matter were Jesus Christ to appear before you IN PERSON. "Fear"? You bet. Hell Forever IS something to fear. Liberator  posted on  2012-07-05   0:48:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #441. To: Liberator (#438) Which one of us believe "Fundies" control the goobermint,... That must be you,because it isn't me. I KNOW that fundies WANT to control the government,but that's not the same thing. Do you deny that's what you want? blames they diarrhea on Fundies, believes Fundies affect queers "rights" to screw each other, and hears voices telling you "FUNDIES FUNDIES FUNDIES!!!! TALIBAN TALIBAN TALIBAN!!!" Sounds like you are having a Midol Moment to me. You are totally hysterical. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-05   0:52:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #442. To: Liberator (#440) HUNDREDS of eye-witnesses at the time say otherwise. LOL! They had all been dead hundreds of years before the Bible was written. But because Anderson Cooper or Geraldo weren't there, YOU don't believe it, This is beyond belief. I quit believing around 1958. That's when I told my parents I didn't believe in God or that if there were a God that he was worth worshipping, and wasn't going to church anymore. Are you so delusional that you think those two had any influence over me? And are you such a big liar now that you will claim you think they have influence over me now? won't consider the evidence, What evidence would that be? "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-05   1:01:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #443. To: sneakypete, redleghunter (#442) (Edited) LOL! They had all been dead hundreds of years before the Bible was written. Which means WHAT?? That because an event is written after the death of participants and witnesses that the event(s) never happened?? Like I said - you required Geraldo there AND cameramen. Sorry - it didn't quite happen that way 2000 years ago. There are places, people, and events that are ALL corroborated by scholars and historians - who I'd say are and were slightly above YOUR pay scale. This is beyond belief. I quit believing around 1958. That's when I told my parents I didn't believe in God or that if there were a God that he was worth worshipping, and wasn't going to church anymore. Are you so delusional that you think those two had any influence over me? Whatever. You are responsible for your own investigation into your faith...and skepticism. In fact - it's even your RIGHT to Choose! And are you such a big liar now that you will claim you think they have influence over me now? Frankly, I don't know WHAT you're alluding to now. It's a past and bad experience that you'll have to address. Sorry that it was so traumatic. won't consider the evidence, What evidence would that be? I'm afraid I'm not qualified to conduct a Bible Study, but maybe Red could guide you in that area if you're curious. Liberator  posted on  2012-07-05   1:19:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #444. To: sneakypete (#441) That must be you,because it isn't me. I KNOW that fundies WANT to control the government,but that's not the same thing. Fundies aren't close to controlling ANY portion of a secular humanist-Atheist goob. IF they were (as when the original Founders were rockin' and rollin') we'd see a totally different government and adherence to the constitution. But since EVERYONE wants to control government, why shouldn't Fundies have their fair share of representation? I mean they DO comprise a great demographic of Americans, don't they? Sounds like you are having a Midol Moment to me. You are totally hysterical. Just channeling the Inner-Pete. Liberator  posted on  2012-07-05   1:25:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #445. To: Liberator (#444) Sounds like you are having a Midol Moment to me. You are totally hysterical. Just channeling the Inner-Pete. You are TOO funny! Serenissima Venezia  posted on  2012-07-05   1:41:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #446. To: SJN (#424) Which was a statement from Pete that some of the founders changed their minds on their Christianity and only went along to get along, as it were. I do remember Pete getting asked to support that. But RedSomethingOrOther was also demanding he read some hard-to-read paragraph or two about tolerance and such. A tedious read, I tried several times but gave up due to boredom. It does get tedious with these extreme anti-homo types who try to assert the basis of Christianity is that homo's will go to hell. Besides, with even a elementary glance at how politicians behave how can you even doubt that the founding politicians said whatever it took to get elected. If they thought saying Christian sounding things would get them elected I have no doubt they'd say it. Is it only these days you can't believe anything a politician says? Have you put the politicians of old on a pedestal and worship their words as if it's scripture? Ya, many do. Then you have the idiots like Liberator searching the web far and wide for homo articles so he can stamp his feet and talk about how bad they are, while on the next post he's going on and on with such homo-erotica you have to wonder why he even thinks of that stuff and how many yukon links has he followed anyway. With all that going on it's hard to get up any energy to refute something or even discuss it with them. They really haven't got a very firm grip on their own lives apparently, and here they are trying to convince others to switch sides or something. Anyway, enough tedium of my own. Now we're even. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-05   10:06:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #447. To: sneakypete (#396) Why? You will just deny it. You deal in faith,not facts. I presented actual quotes with references. Is that 'fact' enough, or do you just want to change the subject because you have nothing in return? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-05   14:19:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #448. To: sneakypete (#420) Because like your leftie pals that are honest enough to vote Dim,you go by FEELINGS,not thinking. Pete, how are you feeling by the way? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-05   16:19:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #449. To: Liberator, sneakypete, GarySpFc (#443) won't consider the evidence, What evidence would that be? Pete knows and cares not to tell us so. He has been in on the threads at LP numerous times, so he will throw out what atheist one liners like "evidence" and "proof" when it has been presented. It is clear that all the NT books were penned and complete before the turn of the first Century, most theologians put it at around AD 96 with Revelation. What is interesting is the majority of the Gospels and Epistles were complete prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So that when Paul said in Corinthians the below, most witnesses were still alive and some then asleep: From I Corinthians chapter 15:(for context, provided is the entire chapter 15) 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. 12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. 29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? 30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? 31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!" 33 Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits." 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame. 35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?" 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain-- perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord. (NKJV) As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-05   17:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #450. To: Biff Tannen (#446) Besides, with even a elementary glance at how politicians behave how can you even doubt that the founding politicians said whatever it took to get elected. If they thought saying Christian sounding things would get them elected I have no doubt they'd say it. Is it only these days you can't believe anything a politician says? Have you put the politicians of old on a pedestal and worship their words as if it's scripture? Ya, many do. LOL!!! So you are applying today's politicians to those who actually fought in the Revolution, some losing their homes and families. Nice try. What makes your comments interesting is you assume there was "something else" other than Christians living in America at the time. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-05   17:24:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #451. To: redleghunter (#450) Lots of people go to church. Lots of people say the right words. I bet there isn't 10% of a population that are real christians at any time, any country, in the last two thousand years. Including those beloved founders you seem to worship. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-05   19:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #452. To: redleghunter (#447) I presented actual quotes with references. What you presented were carefully cherry-picked examples that were not always representative of the writers usual beliefs. The same tired list of truths,partial truths,and outright lies that has been promoted by various churches for decades. I went through all this crap decades ago,and see no reason to revisit it. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-05   23:52:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #453. To: Biff Tannen (#451) Lots of people go to church. Lots of people say the right words. I bet there isn't 10% of a population that are real christians at any time, any country, in the last two thousand years. Including those beloved founders you seem to worship. What about in the colonies of the Pilgrims? A K A Stone  posted on  2012-07-06   0:30:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #454. To: A K A Stone (#453) I'm not sure what you mean, but I'm saying in general a small percentage of a population believe. Any population. Most people just aren't interested. And many are driven away by the behavior of Christians. You can't really blame them either. . Say hello to your grandma for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-06   9:07:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #455. To: All (#454) Checking out the picture ... . Say hello to your mom for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-06   9:24:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #456. To: Biff Tannen (#451) Lots of people go to church. Lots of people say the right words. I bet there isn't 10% of a population that are real christians at any time, any country, in the last two thousand years. Including those beloved founders you seem to worship. Biff, I disagree. You may have hit the nail on the head for "today" but not for the 18th and 19th centuries. When you read the works of the founders, you see their love of Christ and the Bible. You have to consider that "back then" there were no atheists to speak of and no "progressive" socialist lobbyists hanging out on the steps of Congress. People back then knew what shame was, knew their faith and practiced their faith. I know you don't like a bunch of lines but look at the makeup of the signers of the Declaration: All professing and practicing Catholics, Congregationalists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians and a couple of Quakers. Not ONE professed secular or atheist. Two could be catagorized as Episcopalian-Deist (Jefferson and Franklin). However, deist does not equal atheist. errantskeptics.org/Religious-Affiliation-56-signers- DeclarationOfIndependence.htm As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-06   13:53:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #457. To: Biff Tannen (#454) but I'm saying in general a small percentage of a population believe. Any population. Most people just aren't interested. And many are driven away by the behavior of Christians. You can't really blame them either. As stated before, your assumption may apply "today" but not back "then." Driven away by Christian behavior??? LOL. We don't parade along main street in our skivvies now do we:) What exactly are Christians doing to drive people away? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-06   13:56:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #458. To: sneakypete (#452) What you presented were carefully cherry-picked examples that were not always representative of the writers usual beliefs. The same tired list of truths,partial truths,and outright lies that has been promoted by various churches for decades. I went through all this crap decades ago,and see no reason to revisit it. Still waiting for refuting documentation. I take it you are not interested in rebutting. That is fine, just be honest about it. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-06   13:59:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #459. To: redleghunter (#456) I haven't read the works of the founders, so I can't comment, but people haven't changed since Adam. There was no time when people were just better folk. That's nostalgia and it's naive. That goes doubly for politicians, lol. On the whole, people who seek to govern countries are driven by a lust for power and control. And the more power and control they get the more corrupt they get. That's just the way it is. And it's always been that way, even when the US was founded. Don't fool yourself. . Say hello to your mom for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-06   14:20:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #460. To: redleghunter (#457) What exactly are Christians doing to drive people away? Christians can be incredibly arrogant, thoughtless and inhuman in their treatment of others. Plus, at times, because they think they are right about everything they can treat others who don't believe similarly with disdain and mockery. Non-Christians see this and want no part of it. Why should they? Also, there's the behavior of those who only profess to be Christians. They don't do the cause any good either. And where are the Christians to stand up against them publicly so all can see? Same place as the good Muslims who don't stand up publicly against the nutcase Muslims. Hiding, not paying attention, busy, not interested, scared ... . Say hello to your mom for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-06   14:25:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #461. To: Biff Tannen (#459) I haven't read the works of the founders, so I can't comment, but people haven't changed since Adam. There was no time when people were just better folk. That's nostalgia and it's naive. That goes doubly for politicians, lol. On the whole, people who seek to govern countries are driven by a lust for power and control. And the more power and control they get the more corrupt they get. That's just the way it is. And it's always been that way, even when the US was founded. Don't fool yourself. Biff you do have the nature of fallen mankind in perspective. However, naive aside, The Declaration was such a document that addressed the drive of lust for power and control---George III. So I take the founders who drafted the Declaration at their word. I think we started to see, in our country, that lust for power show its ugly head in the Andrew Jackson administration. Since that administration it was all about DC and how many jobs could be given for political gain. Our nation started to change for the worse during that administration. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-06   14:31:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #462. To: Biff Tannen, Liberator, SJN, rowdee (#460) Christians can be incredibly arrogant, thoughtless and inhuman in their treatment of others. Plus, at times, because they think they are right about everything they can treat others who don't believe similarly with disdain and mockery. Non-Christians see this and want no part of it. Why should they? Also, there's the behavior of those who only profess to be Christians. They don't do the cause any good either. And where are the Christians to stand up against them publicly so all can see? Same place as the good Muslims who don't stand up publicly against the nutcase Muslims. Hiding, not paying attention, busy, not interested, scared ... If you were to call the Westboro "Baptists" (they are not Christian and not Baptist) and some televangelists with mansions and 20 cars as your example of a Christian, then I can see your point. But I do and many Christian churches do speak out when someone or some church takes an un-Biblical position. It is our duty to do so. You seem to have encountered some church folk that come off as snobby or "self-righteous." Yeah been there too, and it makes you wonder about the rest of the congregation. But sometimes those who do not profess to be Christian hear a Christian preach the Gospel, and assume they are preaching from a self-righteousness, when what they are doing is preaching the Gospel. If you are offended by the people bringing the message of the Gospel, perhaps you really have an issue with what is being presented and not really the person. As you noted in another post, man is fallen. I am glad you see that. What Christians are charged to do is the Great Commission, to bring the Remedy to man's fallen state. It is not the righteousness of the Christian messenger that is the Remedy but Jesus Christ. So if someone is preaching something other than Jesus Christ died for our sins, rose from the dead and is seated at the Right Hand of the Father that "For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death", (Trust and Obey), then they bring you a false message or gospel. So are you offended by the Gospel message being delivered by a Christian who loves God and is bringing HIS message? Or are you offended by people who call themselves Christians and turn their nose to you and others? Big difference. In some cases people reject the messenger when it was the Message that actually offends them or angers them. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-06   14:48:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #463. To: redleghunter (#462) Ya, that's pretty much what people usually say as an excuse for their poor behavior. . Say hello to your mom for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-06   14:57:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #464. To: redleghunter (#458) I take it you are not interested in rebutting. That is fine, just be honest about it. When have I ever done anything but refuse to fall for that ploy? I don't work for free,and I will NOT let others determine how I spend my time. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-06   15:03:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #465. To: Biff Tannen (#463) Ya, that's pretty much what people usually say as an excuse for their poor behavior. What poor behavior are you talking about? So are you offended by the message or the messenger? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-06   15:05:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #466. To: sneakypete (#464) When have I ever done anything but refuse to fall for that ploy? I don't work for free,and I will NOT let others determine how I spend my time. Ok, Bartleby the Scrivener your secret is safe with me. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-06   15:08:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #467. To: sneakypete (#418) I'm betting Fire Island,Yu-Tard,and the rest of the glitter brigade are as giddy as schoolgirls today. I believe the posters have retired their publick duress over the past few days. I think that good, bona-fide posters have a chance to get a word in edge-wise. The webmistress snapped out of her delusions. buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-06   21:22:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #468. To: redleghunter (#466) Ok, Bartleby the Scrivener your secret is safe with me. heh ; )) SJN  posted on  2012-07-06   21:36:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #469. To: buckeroo (#467) The webmistress snapped out of her delusions. Yeah? Is she on the Romney bandwagon yet? SJN  posted on  2012-07-06   21:37:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #470. To: buckeroo (#467) I believe the posters have retired their publick duress over the past few days. In that case I will resist mentioning them by screen name until they show up again. Thanks for the heads up. "It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011 Stay Hungry...Stay Foolish --Steve Jobs Steve Jobs,life-long Dim,and major Barry Soetoro supporter. sneakypete  posted on  2012-07-06   22:02:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #471. To: SJN (#469) Yeah? Is she on the Romney bandwagon yet? ROTFL ... nope, she is still drinking the multi-coloured pill. But, I was talking about Sally placing limits on the LP Kloughn posse privileges. Those nasty cretins don't post much at this time. This is more GOOD NEWS! buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-06   22:06:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #472. To: sneakypete (#470) In that case I will resist mentioning them by screen name until they show up again. I was discussing our "good" LP Kloughn friends that Sally allowed unlimited access. I don't think they make many posts on LF, at the moment. They appear NOW very subdued in structure and format. Make all the posts you want. You shall still KICK their homosexual asses off the planet. It is a weird and strange chit-chat world that we live in. But Sally seems to have changed the venue of LP. I shall test the waters in the near future. buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-06   22:49:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #473. To: buckeroo (#471) on the LP Kloughn posse privileges. Those nasty cretins don't post much at this time. Please forgive me my naivete, but do you mean those loud mouth aholes like yuklown, rikers Island, gatlin poof, etc? Were they actually part of what I've read about as the "klown posse" which was some other posting site? SJN  posted on  2012-07-06   23:00:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #474. To: SJN (#473) .. do you mean those loud mouth aholes like yuklown, rikers Island, gatlin poof, etc? Were they actually part of what I've read about as the "klown posse" which was some other posting site? In a sense, "they were and are." But, today, not at all. The script file robots you mention are mere computer ASCII script files. They are designed by not Sally but other nasty people that look for tens of thousands of dollars on a monthly basis, aka John Robinson. Backlash has actively happened. buckeroo  posted on  2012-07-06   23:34:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #475. To: buckeroo (#474) aka John Robinson. script file robots? An who is the above?!! SJN  posted on  2012-07-07   0:09:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #476. To: buckeroo (#474) check your mail. SJN  posted on  2012-07-07   0:11:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #477. To: redleghunter (#465) It's the messenger. . Say hello to your mom for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-09   9:02:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #478. To: Biff Tannen (#477) It's the messenger. Ok, then have you honestly examined the Message in your own study and reading? As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-09   11:40:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #479. To: redleghunter (#478) Nevermind that, have you taken a look at the messengers on this thread alone? Look at the way they talk to Sneakypete when he won't listen to them. And why would he? They are acting like idiots, absolutely no understanding of people. . Say hello to your mom for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-09   14:12:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #480. To: Biff Tannen (#479) Look at the way they talk to Sneakypete when he won't listen to them. And why would he? They are acting like idiots, absolutely no understanding of people. Kind of difficult to take you seriously when I see "Biff" in a leisure suit with open collar and toupee. As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-09   14:37:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #481. To: Biff Tannen, rowdee (#479) Nevermind that, have you taken a look at the messengers on this thread alone? Then perhaps you will consider a piece by Charles Spurgeon: I come with much brevity, and I hope with much earnestness, in the second place, to say that FAITH IS THE INDISPENSABLE REQUISITE TO SALVATION. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned." Faith is the one indispensable requisite for salvation. This faith is the gift of God. It is the work of the Holy Spirit. Some men believe not on Jesus; they believe not because they are not of Christ's sheep, as he himself said unto them; but his sheep hear his voice: he knows them and they follow him: he gives to them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of his hand. What is this believing? Believing consists in two things; first there is an accrediting of the testimony of God concerning his Son. God tells you that his Son came into the world and was made flesh, that he lived upon earth for men's sake, that after having spent his life in holiness he was offered up a propitiation for sin, that upon the cross he there and then made expiation—so made expiation for the sins of the world that Whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. If you would be saved, you must accredit this testimony which God gives concerning his own Son. Having received this testimony, the next thing is to confide in it—indeed here lies, I think, the essence of saving faith, to rest yourself for eternal salvation upon the atonement and the righteousness of Jesus Christ, to have done once for all with all reliance upon feelings or upon doings, and to trust in Jesus Christ and in what he did for your salvation.--- Charles Spurgeon As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. -Proverbs 27:17 (NKJV) redleghunter  posted on  2012-07-09   16:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #482. To: redleghunter (#481) I don't think the great commission was envisioned to include cut-and-paste spamming. You're as obstinate and blind as those you try and convert. Have fun with it! . Say hello to your mom for me. Biff Tannen  posted on  2012-07-09   16:53:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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