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Title: The Myth About Marriage
Source: New York Review of Books
URL Source: http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblo ... s%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
Published: May 13, 2012
Author: Garry Wills
Post Date: 2012-05-13 10:23:43 by lucysmom
Keywords: None
Views: 58819
Comments: 126

Why do some people who would recognize gay civil unions oppose gay marriage? Certain religious groups want to deny gays the sacredeness of what they take to be a sacrament. But marriage is no sacrament.

Some of my fellow Catholics even think that “true marriage” was instituted by Christ. It wasn’t. Marriage is prescribed in Eden by YHWH (Yahweh) at Genesis 2.24: man and wife shall “become one flesh.” When Jesus is asked about marriage, he simply quotes that passage from Genesis (Mark 10.8). He nowhere claims to be laying a new foundation for a “Christian marriage” to replace the Yahwist institution.

Some try to make the wedding at Cana (John 1.1-11) somehow sacramental because Jesus worked his first miracle there. But that was clearly a Jewish wedding, like any other Jesus might have attended, and the miracle, by its superabundance of wine, is meant to show the disciples that the Messianic time has come. The great Johannine scholar Father Raymond Brown emphasizes this, and concludes of the passage: “Neither the external nor the internal evidence for a symbolic reference to matrimony is strong. The wedding is only the backdrop and occasion for the story, and the joining of the man and woman does not have any direct role in the narrative.”

The early church had no specific rite for marriage. This was left up to the secular authorities of the Roman Empire, since marriage is a legal concern for the legitimacy of heirs.

snip

Those who do not want to let gay partners have the sacredness of sacramental marriage are relying on a Scholastic fiction of the thirteenth century to play with people’s lives, as the church has done ever since the time of Aquinas. The myth of the sacrament should not let people deprive gays of the right to natural marriage, whether blessed by Yahweh or not. They surely do not need—since no one does—the blessing of Saint Thomas.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 21.

#7. To: lucysmom (#0)

There is no such thing as "gay marriage." Marriage is between a man and a woman PERIOD.

The discussion is about "gay bonding" which is a totally different idea. I fixed your thread.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-05-13   10:39:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: buckeroo (#7)

There is no such thing as "gay marriage." Marriage is between a man and a woman PERIOD.

As a civil matter, marriage is whatever the law says it is.

lucysmom  posted on  2012-05-13   10:44:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: lucysmom (#8)

Oh just GREAT! The law based upon a pile of silly people that want to "change" something decide to make homosexuals have babies. That is too cool. Is it possible or are there more miracles running around today than baby Jesus?

buckeroo  posted on  2012-05-13   10:46:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: buckeroo (#9)

"The law based upon a pile of silly people that want to "change" something decide to make homosexuals have babies."

Homosexuals have babies all the time. My city has quite a large enclave of lesbian couples and singles. many of the couples have had children vis a vis artificial insemination.

The 'they can't beget children' gambit makes no rational sense as an anti-homosexual argument unless one also takes the position that infertile couples of all kinds, even those not any longer of child bearing years should break up as their relationships no longer have any raison de etre because children can not come from it.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-05-13   11:02:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Ferret Mike (#13)

Homosexuals have babies all the time.

WoW! I learn something new everyday! Can you provide a few details on this phenomena?

buckeroo  posted on  2012-05-13   11:07:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: buckeroo (#15) (Edited)

"WoW! I learn something new everyday! Can you provide a few details on this phenomena?"

Explain to me how the 'phenomena' of heterosexual coupes using a surrogate mother or another man's sperm to conceive a child when the husband shoots blanks does not establish the precedent that marriage is about commitment and the bonding between two people. marriage is not just to creating an entity where both participants of the contract create children or the deal's off.

Your point of order is moot in the face of the truth that people of all persuasions have all kinds of reproductive options, or options not to reproduce, and none of this has any legal bearing on whether a marriage is allowable or not.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-05-13   11:14:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Ferret Mike (#16)

My question that YOU jumped on was about natural birth. Now, you are ranting about all kinds of ways that are clearly beyond the scope of my question much less the thread.

Look pal, let me explain "the birds&the bees" to ya: women have babies however it takes a man to have sex with her, hence a man and a women are the ENTIRE BASIS of MARRIAGE.

Lesbian couples don't have babies naturally. Gay couples do not have babies naturally. But women have babies when with a man. Marriage is about procreation; the family unit and the raising of children.

Your incredible idea that men can have babies is even more difficult to understand than a virgin can have a baby Jesus.

CASE CLOSED! NEXT CASE!

buckeroo  posted on  2012-05-13   11:38:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: buckeroo (#17) (Edited)

All you show is your intolerance of the commitment and love one person can have for another.

What I already states has standing in and of itself to debunk your truism about procreation.

Just fact it Buck, this is about a difference of opinion where your premise that marriage is solely about procreation is just a way to excuse your own irrational hatred off and intolerance of others.

Nothing else.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-05-13   11:44:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Ferret Mike (#20)

"friendship" or "sexual relations" is not MARRIAGE!

NEXT CASE!

buckeroo  posted on  2012-05-13   11:46:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 21.

#22. To: buckeroo (#21) (Edited)

Then forbid the marriage of those who cannot in any way procreate. Then make all reproductive options all couples have other than two young fertile heterosexuals making babies by making bacon illegal.

Your logic has more holes then a wheel of Swiss cheese. Next.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-05-13 11:49:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 21.

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