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Bible Study
See other Bible Study Articles

Title: What Version of the Christian Holy Bible Do You read?
Source: LF
URL Source: http://hereandnow
Published: Feb 18, 2012
Author: buckeroo
Post Date: 2012-02-18 17:52:56 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 289151
Comments: 449

Assuming you have a Christian Holy Bible of one flavor or another, what version do you read?

As several examples, here are several variations: the New King James Version, New Living Translation, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version and so forth.

Post your comment on this thread.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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Comments (1-125) not displayed.
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#126. To: GarySpFC (#121)

John Adams...

John Adams wanted strong central government where power rested with a few people.

Adams and the Federalists also opposed the Bill Of Rights.

While President, Adams trampled on the Bill of Rights by passing the Alien and Sedition Acts, which among other things empowered the President to imprison people who spoke in a "false, scandalous and malicious" manner against the government. (Adams was kind of the George Bush of his day!)

John Adams is hardly a paragon of American thought.

I wouldn't be quoting him too much if I were you.


Iran’s main drive for acquiring atomic weapons is not for use against Israel but as a deterrent against U.S. intervention -- Major General Zeevi Farkash, head of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate

jwpegler  posted on  2012-02-25   13:53:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: GarySpFC (#121)

John Adams,

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: 'It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." President Adams, July 4, 1821

So they copied certain principles of Christianity that could also be found in any number of other religions. And it's not like most colonists then wouldn't have been familiar and more accepting......

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-02-25   14:00:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: GarySpFC (#118)

buckeroo: And Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew. What faction of the Jews did he represent? At his time: the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes and the Zealots represented the known Jewish factions according to Josephus' in "Jewish Antiquities."

GarySpFC: None of the four.

Are you saying that Jesus of Nazareth was not a Jew? If Jesus was Jew, he had to have identified with one of those four Jewish factions, already suggested. If he was not a Jew, what was he, then?

How come, at a young age, did Jesus goto Egypt? For a vacation? Or, was he taken to avoid the Romans? If he was identified as a Jewish Zealot, it is understandable about his journey. If he belonged to any of the other Jewish factions, it is not understandable unless there is some data to show that Joesph and Mary were shamed by the Galilee Jewish community for Jesus' birth.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   14:17:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: buckeroo (#123)

You must have skipped class in a formal institution concerning History of America that day, while attending a local church about some sermon practicing HELL_FIRE&DAMNATION if you are not baptized in the blood of Christ. This is incorrect from a historical perspective. The idea of taking up arms against the British wasnot and isnot a CHRISTIAN concept. Similar to the poppycock about the same in a modern sense: GOTO WAR AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. It is all pure unadulterated crapola.

That's not correct. Where do you think the term unalienable rights originated? Are you aware that American Churches and pastors played a major role in the Revolution?

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's Godentitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   14:17:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: GarySpFC (#129) (Edited)

hat's not correct. Where do you think the term unalienable rights originated? Are you aware that American Churches and pastors played a major role in the Revolution?

So how was taking up arms against a Christian theological entity such as Britain considered a Christian concept?

Are you saying that in a Christian theocracy, unalienable rights cannot exist?

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-02-25   14:21:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: buckeroo (#123)

The idea of taking up arms against the British wasnot and isnot a CHRISTIAN concept.

Bull crap! It was a Christian duty to refuse to worship King George, and rebel.


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.

Hondo68  posted on  2012-02-25   14:28:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: hondo68 (#131)

It was a Christian duty to refuse to worship King George, and rebel.

I think you are mistaken by magnitudes of order. You are simply rallying to the feverish, emotional battle-cry of the day as delivered by sermons across the colonial colonies. It was NOT a pure Christian duty.

BTW, this same feverish pitch of small churches occurred across America prior to the War Between the States in regards to abolition. Of course, today, we are stuck with the impact of the federal government interfering in just about everything around our lives.

And today, in America, here we are again: ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS! Off to Tehran, Iran to fight for Jerusalem!

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   14:38:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: buckeroo (#113)

And, the Ten Commandments is the bedrock for Judaism and Christianity and Muslim faiths.

That isn't true. It isn't the bedrock for the muslim cult.

¶ I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. ¶ Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (They worship the dead man mohammad).

Thou shalt not kill. (Their cult book says to kill Christians and jews)

Thou shalt not steal. (They want to steal the promised land from the Jews. In fact they still occupy much of Israel.)

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. (Their toilet paper cult book the Koran says to lie to non muslims.)

Commandment 10:

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's (The Muslims covet what God gave Israel.)

So no buckeroo the so called muslim faith isn't based on the 10 commandments.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-25   15:02:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: A K A Stone (#133)

the so called muslim faith isn't based on the 10 commandments.

Prove to me that the Muslims deny Abraham/Sarah/Isaiah whom are the same roots of Judaism and Christianity. Keep in mind, while performing your research, that I know better. So prove to me your perspective with links or references.

Find your authoritative references BEYOND some other HELLFIRE&DAMNATION Sunday school church meeting that you may frequent. Your help is appreciated.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   15:14:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: buckeroo (#134)

They worship Mohammad. They say to kill christians and Jews. They want the land God gave the Jews. Those are just a few of the facts about the muslim cult that you seem to like so much.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-25   15:16:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: A K A Stone (#135)

They worship Mohammad. They say to kill christians and Jews. They want the land God gave the Jews. Those are just a few of the facts about the muslim cult that you seem to like so much.

Really? Where are your authoritative references as I requested? Certainly you have at least one authoritative reference handy within your fantastick and knowledgeable repertoire of understanding which you intend to convey supporting your personal opinion.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   15:25:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: buckeroo (#136)

Thanks but no thanks. Better things to do right now. What I said is true.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-02-25   15:30:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: A K A Stone (#137)

What I said is true.

Really? Where is your supporting material to prove your viewpoint? I would enjoy studying your authoritative reference. Thanks in advance.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   15:33:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: buckeroo (#128)

Are you saying that Jesus of Nazareth was not a Jew? If Jesus was Jew, he had to have identified with one of those four Jewish factions, already suggested. If he was not a Jew, what was he, then?

No. I am saying he was not a member of any of those groups. He wasn't required to be a member of a group.

How come, at a young age, did Jesus goto Egypt? For a vacation? Or, was he taken to avoid the Romans? If he was identified as a Jewish Zealot, it is understandable about his journey. If he belonged to any of the other Jewish factions, it is not understandable unless there is some data to show that Joesph and Mary were shamed by the Galilee Jewish community for Jesus' birth.

No, his parents took him to Egypt to escape Herod. He was less than two years old.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   15:36:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: mininggold (#130)

how was taking up arms against a Christian theological entity such as Britain considered a Christian

Read the Declaration of Independence from beginning to end, and then tell me if you think King George was a Christian.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   15:41:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: buckeroo (#134)

Prove to me that the Muslims deny Abraham/Sarah/Isaiah whom are the same roots of Judaism and Christianity. Keep in mind, while performing your research, that I know better. So prove to me your perspective with links or references.

The 10 Commandments came on the scene via Moses about 600 years after Abraham.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   15:43:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: GarySpFC (#139)

I am saying he [Jesus of Nazareth] was not a member of any of those groups. He wasn't required to be a member of a group.

How do you know?

his [Jesus of Nazareth] parents took him to Egypt to escape Herod. He was less than two years old.

Herod was affiliated with the Pharisees and the Sadducees, whom enjoyed their relative and lofty positions with the Roman triumph over the Jews. So, why would Jesus of Nazareth (or his immediate family leading the journey) escape to Egypt? Were Jesus' parents afraid of retribution from Herod for belonging to a different faction of the Jews?

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   15:46:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: GarySpFC (#140)

Read the Declaration of Independence from beginning to end, and then tell me if you think King George was a Christian.

It depends on which side of the Atlantic you take sides with, doesn't it?

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   15:49:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: GarySpFC (#141)

The 10 Commandments came on the scene via Moses about 600 years after Abraham.

Of course. You have actually added to the thread not denying or suggesting otherwise that the three great religions are mutually inclusive from the original Jewish documents, circa ~1250 BCE.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   15:55:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: A K A Stone (#135)

They worship Mohammad.

That's true, but the moon god is their deity which is why they use the muzlim crescent moon symbol. They switched to a fake god, so they're outa Judaism! They're about on a par with wiccans, satan worshipers.


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.

Hondo68  posted on  2012-02-25   16:14:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: buckeroo, A K A Stone, *Yukon neo-Progressive Vermin* (#143)

depends on which side of the Atlantic you take sides with

You're beginning to sound like a Canadian Tory in an Alaskan bathhouse. Long live the Queens!

Bucky wuz hacked!


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.

Hondo68  posted on  2012-02-25   16:23:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: hondo68 (#145)

but the moon god is their deity which is why they use the muzlim crescent moon symbol.

BAH!

The Muslims don't believe in any God but one: Allah, even their prophet Muhammad is not considered a "god" much less the symbolism you suggest. The symbolism of the crescent moon is because Mecca from the early days.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   16:30:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: buckeroo (#147)

You are not going to get a straight answer from these clowns. Especially Bozo the AKA, who you always know is absolutely wrong when he claims to be right.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2012-02-25   16:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: hondo68 (#146)

ROTFL.

Still, the American revolution had little to do with Christian ideas. The revolution was basically over taxation and the elimination of British rule from across the Atlantic. Where does the word "Christian" appear in the DoI or the USC?

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   16:35:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: Ferret Mike (#148)

Heya Mike -

I can tell, you know the reasons for this thread. It is apparent from your post.

With a wee bit of luck, some of the ideas shall "rub off" to others even if those ideas posted are not mine. But, one of the shackles of modern day life is this "religious" characterization for either supporting political debate or not.

One of my ideas, although not advanced with supporting material (just yet) is that Jesus of Nazareth was caught up in a revolution in Judea at around the time of severe subjugation by both the Romans and Jews. The resultant events created the myths we read, irrespective of the variation of the Bible anyone reads.

Jesus of Nazareth was a REBEL!

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   16:42:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: buckeroo (#142)

I am saying he [Jesus of Nazareth] was not a member of any of those groups. He wasn't required to be a member of a group.
How do you know?

Forty years of studying every minute detail of Christ's life. his [Jesus of Nazareth] parents took him to Egypt to escape Herod. He was less than two years old.

Herod was affiliated with the Pharisees and the Sadducees, whom enjoyed their relative and lofty positions with the Roman triumph over the Jews. So, why would Jesus of Nazareth (or his immediate family leading the journey) escape to Egypt? Were Jesus' parents afraid of retribution from Herod for belonging to a different faction of the Jews?

Herod was affiliated with the Herodians, and was an evil butcher, even murdering his own sons. Caesar said, "better to be a hog of Herod's than his son."

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   17:31:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: buckeroo (#125)

Deism and atheism are not the same concepts. You are incorrect from a conceptual perspective.

I have a doctorate in theology, and I am very aware of the difference. Today, atheists use the "Founding Fathers were Deists argument.". Deists at that time were very different than modern Deists, which today are closer to atheists.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   17:43:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: mininggold (#127)

So they copied certain principles of Christianity that could also be found in any number of other religions. And it's not like most colonists then wouldn't have been familiar and more accepting......

Baloney! They were Christians.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   17:47:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#154. To: buckeroo (#136)

Muslim Terror Islam - "And in their spare time they conquered north Africa, occupied Spain, tried to invade France, took Sicily, took Southern Italy, looted the Vatican, tried to take Vienna, murdered atheletes at the Olympics, blew up a disco in Bali, bombed a Spanish train station, bombed the London Underground, murdered Buddhists in Thailand, bombed nightclubs in Israel and took down the World Trade Center towers."  Author Unknown

"As long as the arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous and cruel." T.E. Lawrence

"Their plan is to return the entire world - not just the Middle East - to the days of the caliphate and either convert all of us so-called infidels into born-again Islamic believers or kill us."  David Hackworth "Europe is no longer Europe, it is Eurabia, a colony of Islam, where the Islamic invasion does not proceed only in a physical sense, but also in a mental and cultural sense.".  Oriana Fallaci

Have you ever lived in Muslim countries or communities? Curious. Their "religion" is not just a religion. These Imams and Mullahs (depending on flavor of Islam) are not the crazy Westboro Baptist church pastor who can be ignored. Islam is political; geopolitical; government; military; culture...It permeates the entire "life" of the person, family, community, government, diet etc. And this Islam calls for everyone in the world to submit to their way of life...Or die. You cannot "box in" Islam to the Friday mosque service and holidays...Islam is the very fabric of these societies.         So you see just by being who we are, they being who they are, they are at perpetual war with us. Our hopes of changing them to something as we have will only work if Islam is replaced with another faith. Islam must be removed in order to free the Arabs, Persians et al. An American Officer  

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   17:54:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#155. To: buckeroo (#144)

Of course. You have actually added to the thread not denying or suggesting otherwise that the three great religions are mutually inclusive from the original Jewish documents, circa ~1250 BCE.

Muslims only believe part of the Bible.

The Qur'an is comprised of 114 revelations of Mohammed that are reported to be mostly spoken in pain from him twisting on the ground in convulsions. There is no prophet in scripture that received the word of God in this manner.

The Muslim claims the Qur'an was written in Arabic, which they claim is the language of heaven on a stone tablet in heaven having no human author. However we find the Qur'an is not written in 100% Arabic but has some Hebrew, Persian and even Greek words. If Arabic is the language of heaven and the Qur'an was dictated perfectly why does the Qur'an contains foreign words that are Hebrew, Greek and Persian. This contradiction should be evident to all.

If one were to ask where the original manuscript is there are no solid answers. The average Muslim will insist they know it is in their possession, but scholars know better. To not have the original and to not know where it is, not a tenable position to take. Especially when one states the Qur'an is a perfect book of revelation, correcting the Bible. How can Mohammed have had this done in all there languages? Are all three spoken in heaven?

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   18:13:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: buckeroo (#150)

One of my ideas, although not advanced with supporting material (just yet) is that Jesus of Nazareth was caught up in a revolution in Judea at around the time of severe subjugation by both the Romans and Jews. The resultant events created the myths we read, irrespective of the variation of the Bible anyone reads.

Jesus of Nazareth was a REBEL

There wasn't time for myths to develop prior to the writing of the Gospels. Furthermore, there were too many eyewitnesses still alive, and none came forth to refute the Gospel accounts.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-25   18:20:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#157. To: buckeroo, *Liberal Rehab Staff* (#150)

Jesus of Nazareth was a REBEL!

He was a wild radical alright!

Doesn't seem like the type to drive a Chevy Volt, or favor bailouts.


"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.

Hondo68  posted on  2012-02-25   18:28:07 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: GarySpFC (#154)

And this Islam calls for everyone in the world to submit to their way of life...Or die.

If that is true, how can you have non-Muslims living or even visiting Muslim nations?

NewsJunky  posted on  2012-02-25   18:55:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#159. To: GarySpFC (#151)

Herod was affiliated with the Herodians, and was an evil butcher, even murdering his own sons. Caesar said, "better to be a hog of Herod's than his son."

Was Herod (pick any of them) a Jew?

Remember, Jesus of Nazareth is caught up in this time period ... Jesus is not the object of discussion, however. It is about the Pharisees and Sadducees sharing a subordinate position with Herod/Rome.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   19:05:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#160. To: hondo68 (#157)

Your pic (in a sense) clarifies the reasons for the Romans/Jews to murder Jesus as he did so during an important festival, called the Passover. He kicked BUTT against both Romans and Jews. Of course, Jesus' earlier Sermon on the Mount in Galilee, pissed off a lot of folks, too. He was a REBEL!

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-25   22:33:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#161. To: buckeroo (#159)

Herod was affiliated with the Herodians, and was an evil butcher, even murdering his own sons. Caesar said, "better to be a hog of Herod's than his son." Was Herod (pick any of them) a Jew?

Herold was a half Jew.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-26   0:15:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: buckeroo (#160)

Of course, Jesus' earlier Sermon on the Mount in Galilee, pissed off a lot of folks, too. He was a REBEL!

Nope, Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2012-02-26   0:17:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: GarySpFC (#161)

Herold was a half Jew.

So, as a Jewish ruler (under Roman control) he built half a temple, 'eh?

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-26   0:37:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: GarySpFC (#162)

Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God.

Please show a specific citation where "Jesus the Nazarene" declared himself to be a GOD. The real issue, was Jesus was despised (being from Nazareth) as the Jewish Zealots in Galilee often resided there. As you know, Jesus was taken to Nazareth after being brought back from Egypt to avoid the wrath of Herod.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-26   0:42:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: GarySpFC (#162)

Jesus was murdered because He claimed to be God.

I want to come back to your perspective as it seems to not collaborate historical evidence. Here is Flavius Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews Book 18: Chapter 1....

1. Now Cyrenius, a Roman senator, and one who had gone through other magistracies, and had passed through them till he had been consul, and one who, on other accounts, was of great dignity, came at this time into Syria, with a few others, being sent by Caesar to be a judge of that nation, and to take an account of their substance. Coponius also, a man of the equestrian order, was sent together with him, to have the supreme power over the Jews. Moreover, Cyrenius came himself into Judea, which was now added to the province of Syria, to take an account of their substance, and to dispose of Archelaus's money; but the Jews, although at the beginning they took the report of a taxation heinously, yet did they leave off any further opposition to it, by the persuasion of Joazar, who was the son of Beethus, and high priest; so they, being over-pesuaded by Joazar's words, gave an account of their estates, without any dispute about it. Yet was there one Judas, a Gaulonite, (1) of a city whose name was Gamala, who, taking with him Sadduc, (2) a Pharisee, became zealous to draw them to a revolt, who both said that this taxation was no better than an introduction to slavery, and exhorted the nation to assert their liberty; as if they could procure them happiness and security for what they possessed, and an assured enjoyment of a still greater good, which was that of the honor and glory they would thereby acquire for magnanimity. They also said that God would not otherwise be assisting to them, than upon their joining with one another in such councils as might be successful, and for their own advantage; and this especially, if they would set about great exploits, and not grow weary in executing the same; so men received what they said with pleasure, and this bold attempt proceeded to a great height. All sorts of misfortunes also sprang from these men, and the nation was infected with this doctrine to an incredible degree; one violent war came upon us after another, and we lost our friends which used to alleviate our pains; there were also very great robberies and murder of our principal men. This was done in pretense indeed for the public welfare, but in reality for the hopes of gain to themselves; whence arose seditions, and from them murders of men, which sometimes fell on those of their own people, (by the madness of these men towards one another, while their desire was that none of the adverse party might be left,) and sometimes on their enemies; a famine also coming upon us, reduced us to the last degree of despair, as did also the taking and demolishing of cities; nay, the sedition at last increased so high, that the very temple of God was burnt down by their enemies' fire. Such were the consequences of this, that the customs of our fathers were altered, and such a change was made, as added a mighty weight toward bringing all to destruction, which these men occasioned by their thus conspiring together; for Judas and Sadduc, who excited a fourth philosophic sect among us, and had a great many followers therein, filled our civil government with tumults at present, and laid the foundations of our future miseries, by this system of philosophy, which we were before unacquainted withal, concerning which I will discourse a little, and this the rather because the infection which spread thence among the younger sort, who were zealous for it, brought the public to destruction.

2. The Jews had for a great while had three sects of philosophy peculiar to themselves; the sect of the Essens, and the sect of the Sadducees, and the third sort of opinions was that of those called Pharisees; of which sects, although I have already spoken in the second book of the Jewish War, yet will I a little touch upon them now. [note: the Zealots]

3. Now, for the Pharisees, they live meanly, and despise delicacies in diet; and they follow the conduct of reason; and what that prescribes to them as good for them they do; and they think they ought earnestly to strive to observe reason's dictates for practice. They also pay a respect to such as are in years; nor are they so bold as to contradict them in any thing which they have introduced; and when they determine that all things are done by fate, they do not take away the freedom from men of acting as they think fit; since their notion is, that it hath pleased God to make a temperament, whereby what he wills is done, but so that the will of man can act virtuously or viciously. They also believe that souls have an immortal rigor in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to revive and live again; on account of which doctrines they are able greatly to persuade the body of the people; and whatsoever they do about Divine worship, prayers, and sacrifices, they perform them according to their direction; insomuch that the cities give great attestations to them on account of their entire virtuous conduct, both in the actions of their lives and their discourses also.

4. But the doctrine of the Sadducees is this: That souls die with the bodies; nor do they regard the observation of any thing besides what the law enjoins them; for they think it an instance of virtue to dispute with those teachers of philosophy whom they frequent: but this doctrine is received but by a few, yet by those still of the greatest dignity. But they are able to do almost nothing of themselves; for when they become magistrates, as they are unwillingly and by force sometimes obliged to be, they addict themselves to the notions of the Pharisees, because the multitude would not otherwise bear them.

5. The doctrine of the Essens is this: That all things are best ascribed to God. They teach the immortality of souls, and esteem that the rewards of righteousness are to be earnestly striven for; and when they send what they have dedicated to God into the temple, they do not offer sacrifices (3) because they have more pure lustrations of their own; on which account they are excluded from the common court of the temple, but offer their sacrifices themselves; yet is their course of life better than that of other men; and they entirely addict themselves to husbandry. It also deserves our admiration, how much they exceed all other men that addict themselves to virtue, and this in righteousness; and indeed to such a degree, that as it hath never appeared among any other men, neither Greeks nor barbarians, no, not for a little time, so hath it endured a long while among them. This is demonstrated by that institution of theirs, which will not suffer any thing to hinder them from having all things in common; so that a rich man enjoys no more of his own wealth than he who hath nothing at all. There are about four thousand men that live in this way, and neither marry wives, nor are desirous to keep servants; as thinking the latter tempts men to be unjust, and the former gives the handle to domestic quarrels; but as they live by themselves, they minister one to another. They also appoint certain stewards to receive the incomes of their revenues, and of the fruits of the ground; such as are good men and priests, who are to get their corn and their food ready for them. They none of them differ from others of the Essens in their way of living, but do the most resemble those Dacae who are called Polistae (4) [dwellers in cities].

6. But of the fourth sect of Jewish philosophy, Judas the Galilean was the author [the Zealots]. These men agree in all other things with the Pharisaic notions; but they have an inviolable attachment to liberty, and say that God is to be their only Ruler and Lord. They also do not value dying any kinds of death, nor indeed do they heed the deaths of their relations and friends, nor can any such fear make them call any man lord. And since this immovable resolution of theirs is well known to a great many, I shall speak no further about that matter; nor am I afraid that any thing I have said of them should be disbelieved, but rather fear, that what I have said is beneath the resolution they show when they undergo pain. And it was in Gessius Florus's time that the nation began to grow mad with this distemper, who was our procurator, and who occasioned the Jews to go wild with it by the abuse of his authority, and to make them revolt from the Romans. And these are the sects of Jewish philosophy.

Judas of Galilee (circa ~ 6 CE) lead a revolt against the Romans. 2000 Jews died and the rub was Jesus of Nazareth (and John the Baptist) were somehow involved with this Jewish Zealot group, hence: death to John and Jesus and the disciples, many of which were originally John the Baptist's disciples.

buckeroo  posted on  2012-02-26   2:07:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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