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Title: 'I am a girl': The plight of Tammy, the adopted son of two lesbians who started sex change aged 8 because he has always maintained he is a girl
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... ormone-blocking-treatment.html
Published: Sep 29, 2011
Author: John Stevens
Post Date: 2011-09-29 22:29:04 by Sebastian
Keywords: None
Views: 122208
Comments: 212
A boy who started the process of changing sex at age eight has told how he always knew he was meant to be a girl. Thomas Lobel, who now calls himself Tammy, is undergoing controversial hormone blocking treatment in Berkeley, California to stop him going through puberty as a boy. His two lesbian mothers, who adopted him aged two, say that they have been criticised by friends and family, but insist they have not forced their son to become a girl. Scroll down for video Therapy: Thomas Lobel, who now calls himself Tammy, is undergoing controversial hormone blocking treatment No pressure: The boy's two lesbian adopted mothers, Debra, left, and Pauline, right, say that they have not forced their son to become a girl They say that one of the first things he told them when he learnt sign language aged three, learned because of a speech impediment, was, 'I am a girl'. Tammy, now 11, wears dresses and effectively lives as a girl. His parents, Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel, say that their son, who they claim was depressed at a younger age and threatened to chop of his own penis, is now much happier. The couple were married in 1990 by a rabbi, according to Pauline's Facebook page, and have two older sons and grandchildren. PROUD MOM: Two photos of Tammy from one of Pauline's Facebook albums called 'My Sweet Sweet Princess' Here is Tammy with her mothers and older brother Edgar at his recent bar mitzvah. Mother Pauline said Tammy was shy and unhappy as a boy when compared to her older, outgoing brothers Unlike his older brothers who are both described at outgoing and athletic, Thomas liked to read Wonder Woman comic books and play with dolls. He shunned baseball hats, preferring rhinestone hair accessories. At age seven, after threatening genital mutilation on himself, therapists and psychiatrists diagnosed Tammy with gender identity disorder. A year later his parents allowed him to start the first step of his transition to becoming female by letting him pick his own clothes and wear bras. Tammy favor headbands to baseball hats and picked out bras and dresses to start wearing when given choice in clothing to wear 'As soon as we let him put on a dress, his personality changed from a very sad kid who sat still, didn't do much of anything to a very happy little girl who was thrilled to be alive,' one mother Pauline told CNN. This summer, Tammy started taking hormone-blocking drugs, which will stop him from experiencing puberty. The hormone-suppressant will postpone the 11-year-old developing broad shoulders, deep voice and facial hair.The diagnosis has been hard to accept for Tammy's parents, but they insist their sexuality has nothing to do with it. As Pauline said, people think 'we're pushing her to do this. I'm a lesbian. My partner is a lesbian. That suddenly falls into the fold: "Oh, you want her to be part of the lifestyle you guys live".' Unhappy: Tammy was adopted aged two by Debra Lobel and Pauline Moreno But they insist that is not the case and the decision has been difficult. His parents say the hormone treatment will give him time to figure out if he wants to fully transition to being female or go through puberty as a boy. If he chooses to stop taking the drugs, he will undergo natural male puberty at a later stage and his future fertility would not be impacted. Should he decide to transition to an adult female, he can take female hormones as well, which would raise his voice, grow breasts and develop other feminine physical characteristics. Pauline and Debra have been married since 1990, when they were joined in a commitment ceremony by their rabbi San Francisco, right by Berkeley, is one of four cities in the United States with a hospital that has a program for transgender children. The University of California San Francisco is home to the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health. Children are seen at length by mental health professionals and then treated by pediatric endocrinologists. Others cities with youth programs are Boston, Seattle and Los Angeles. Watch the video report: 
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#104. To: A K A Stone (#96)
Yeah,Freedom of Speech is only good when you agree with it,huh? The truth is you either have it,or you don't have it. There are no gray areas. The reason it is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights is NOT to protect "speech" that is popular and that everybody agrees with,it is to protect unpopular speech. Unpopular speech is the canary in the coal mine of freedom. Any branch of government that has or is allowed to exert the power to suspend unpopular speech (YAY,HOMOS!)also has the right to suspend "popular" speech (in your case,"AH HATE HOMOS!")like they do in Eugene. We are either all free,or none of us are free. It really is that simple.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Nov 2011
That is a funny rant in light of Obamas assassination and your comments regarding it. You have some hypocrisy in your statements. But we all do at times.
I grew both the small decorative pumpkins and the large Big Max pumpkins that can reach 100 lbs.... Both did pretty well and ended up occupying over twice the space I alloted for them... I probably have about 12 pumpkins that weigh somewhere between 75 and 100 lbs, along with some others in the 50-60 lb range... The decoratives grew like crazy I probably have around 50 or more of those.... The biggest problem was all the wet weather we've had in the last month. Some of them don't look too swift on the bottom so don't know how long they will last.... Hopefully until we get a hard freeze.... I also grew some peppers, Fresno, New Mexico, Banana, Habanero and Cubanelles.... They did really well too... Am going to stem and seed them, and then vaccum pack them and toss them in the freezer... Hopefully that works well because I'm not much into canning.....
"CHANGE" you can step in..... Do you freeze the pulp to make pumpkin pies and cookies?
Wrong. Sex with a minor being a crime is a fairly recent social/cultural decision. For most of history there were no laws against it. As for the whole "natural" thing,that is ENTIRELY your opinion on what is natural. For a homosexual,it would be unnatural to have sex with someone of the opposite gender. Just as unnatural as it would be for you or I to have sex with another man. While child rape is worse... At least you are still rational enough to recognize that. as it doesn't have lawful consent. Any laws that prohibit homosexuals adults from having homosexual sex in private are UN-Constitutional. A homosexuals right to have sex with another homosexual is no more dependent on your approval than your right to have sex with a woman is dependent on the approval of a homosexual. Rights are rights,not permissions.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Nov 2011
Depends on the individuals and conditions involved. In some cases,yes,and in other cases,no. Your question is akin to asking if "single people should be allowed to adopt",or "should poor people be allowed to adopt?". What about how they are damaging this kid for life. It is ludicrous for you to suggest that all children adopted or raised by homosexuals are damaged for life. Are you implying that all children raised by heterosexuals are raised in ideal circumstances and have perfect lives? I can guarantee you that you are overdue for a really big shock if you think that is the case. BTW,I was adopted by a heterosexual family that did their best for me,but had two uncles that were preachers whose children weren't allowed to play with me when I was 6 years old BECAUSE I was adopted. I even had one tell me when I was a child that "you might be the spawn of Satan for all we know!" THESE people are typical of the type of people that are against homosexuals adopting children without any regard whatsoever to the conditions of the adoption. Their and YOUR ONLY "reasons" for taking this stand is because of your religious beliefs. For example,you would prevent an adult male or female homosexual from adopting their minor brothers or sisters if the parents were to suddenly die in a accident or murder. "RIGHT THINKING" people like YOU would rather see the minor children go into a home for children than see them adopted by a loving family member,purely because that family member is a homosexual. You should be ashamed of yourself,both as an American and as a self-professed Christian.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Nov 2011
No... I just grow them for decoration.... The wife loves to decorate for Halloween and Thanksgiving so why not grow some and let her run wild..... Have you checked out the price of pumpkins this year???? WOW!!!!
"CHANGE" you can step in..... Is the price high? I might come get some of them for pulp. We freeze it and make killer pumpkin cookies.
Nothing to do with procreation. Your statement was just dumb. Really? Do you really think that each and every case of heterosexual sex results in a pregnancy?
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Nov 2011
I went by Home Cheapo yesterday and they wanted $4.98 for small pumpkins weighing less than 10 lbs and $6.98 for those in the 10-20 lb range....
"CHANGE" you can step in..... That doesn't include marriage though. Yeah,they have the same rights,except for when they don't,right? And it isn't discrimination as marriage has a definition of a man and a woman. No,it doesn't. Look up the definition in any dictionary. For example,a welder "marries" two pieces of steel together when he joins them. Any homo man can marry any homo woman. Two homo men will never be married no matter how much you or faggot Mike cries about it. HorseHillary. These are your religious superstitions speaking,NOT facts. Marriage is a CIVIL/SOCIAL act,not a religious act. You and your fellow religious cult members or the members of any other religious cult have a absolute right to determine who may and who may not be married within your religion by one of your cult leaders,but you do NOT have the authority nor will you EVER have the authority to make the determination as to who can and can not be married in a civil ceremony.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Nov 2011
of course not. But your statement is just dumb and untrue. It's ok we can disagree. It doesn't matter much as it is a hypothetical.
I'll just call you a dumb ass on this one. No need addressing it.
Barry didn't assassinate anybody,and I seriously doubt he was even consulted about it even though it was done in his name. And I find it more than strange that you would equate killing somebody for working for the violent overthrow of your nation and murdering other citizens with adoption or having sex.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Nov 2011
Yup. Just me and that "goddamned piece of paper called the Constitution."
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Nov 2011
No one who wrote the constitution or supported it ever dreamed it would be for queer marriage. Despite your soft spot for deviants. Show me one founding father that supported queers pretending they are married. You have one serious mental fuck up. Get help.
Your hatred and fear of homosexuals has made you as thick as a brick,hasn't it? The Constitution is NOT "for homosexual marriage" any more than it it is "for religious superstition and fears". It's for and about individual freedoms. It's about recognizing the RIGHT of individuals to live their own lives as they see fit. Despite your soft spot for deviants. I don't have a soft spot for deviants any more than I have a soft spot for stupid motherfuckers that believe in mythical creatures that live in the sky. Show me one founding father that supported queers pretending they are married. Show me one that spoke against it,or against individual freedoms and the right of citizens to live their lives as they wish.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Nov 2011
You'll never get that the Constitution is "Rules For Government" not "Rules For People".
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
I think a photo of a manure spreader might be more appropriate,though." He is a Polaroid camera in a digital world. his mind is partial phased into anther universe somewhere. But he can be entertaining. That is something an asshole like yukon can't say.
So I take it then then you have psychology and sociology degrees and can analyse Eugene, Oregon and me? Shouldn't talk like you do if in fact you don't. With as much truoble you have in figuring things out I would worry mainly about your crap, not my mental ecology, sport.
Eugene is a university town and was an enclave for the counterculture that has molded it's character and the flavor of life here quite a bit. But it is also an old logging and mill center at the base of an agricultural valley. THe old can clash with the more recent layers of culture here. We have an independent police oversight board and the citizens actually have better oversight of the police here then in some places. It's like any other place with things that are good like the law against discrimination, and bad things like drunken student riots on campus on Halloween.
Your anti constitutional beliefs are showing again. What do you have against free speech and free association?
vive la différence
Seriously? That's a mandate of fundamental Christianity? I never heard that before. I always thought 'go forth and multiply' was a Biblical command and in no way not a limitation on how often a person could have sex. I have read some Puritans had some similar belief (a general disapproval/avoidance of anything that provided pleasure) but I've never actually met anyone who professed such a belief.
The U.S. Constitution protects minorities against the whims and caprice of majorities. I If you associate and organize to harrass and harm people because you don't like what two consenting adults do in the pricacy of their bedroom, it is you who go against the spirit and purpose of the U.S. Constitution. Free speech works because people are respmnsible for their words. So if I organize to harrass the dog shit out of people for the purpose of stealing their social status, housing or job because I hate say blue eyed people, I would be jus as wrong as someone doing the same for a triviality concerning the private relationships of people. Conspiring to do criminal harm to people andto destroy them is not protected by the First Amendment any more then yelling fire in a crowded theater is. It is you who have the disease of hatred and intolerence. Twisting the Constitution to serve your problems concerning hatred and immaturity gets you no where. Homosexuals have the right to speak freely about who they are and their relationships, and they have the right to form associations to fight haters and baiters like you. Why do you hate the Constitution so much you would deny them these rights if you could? And it's strange to see someone who will change someone else's words and replace them with twisted words of hatred and intolerence, which is what you do to the people who own the intellectual rights to a piece and you change so much as the title for it they have given it. I would say the first thig you need to do is to stop stealing the words of another and replacing them with your own. Because on that count alone you have no room to lecture anyone else about the First Amendment.
Absolutely not. My claim is as follows: homosexual acts between humans (as gratifying as those acts may be) cannot and will not result in the furtherance of the species via biological inheritance. Just ain't gonna happen.
Ain't that the truth.
The 'acts' do not live in a vacuum. It is a web of human relationships that form the society where children are brought into the world. People are influenced by their family and friends, and part of the influence that helps people decide to have children is the relationships around them. Older people cannot have children, but their lives can serve as a reinforcement to others to have kids. Success in a relationship and how someone runs their life can inspire people deciding to brave the trials and cost of having kids even if these friends doing so are a same gender couple. There is never ever an indictment against a relationship purely on direct child bearing abilities. Especially as it is very evident that not currently having the means to directly procreate within the relationship does not ever mean folks like these never have kids. They in fact very often do before their current relationship, or they finds means to do this within said relationship. Your argument does not have merit.
Then you might wish to cite the medical case where human homosexual activity has resulted in pregnancy. If such an event ever happened, it must surely have been mentioned in one medical journal or another. Simply claiming homosexuality is a boon to humankind without any supporting evidence is rather unconvincing especially given the raft of evidence to the contrary.
True,and unlike Yukon,Boris is actually very intelligent on those days when his mind is hitting on all 8 cylinders.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011
It's more than that,it has always been a communist enclave within the US. Is it Eugene or Portland that has a city park with statues of prominent communists that helped overthrow the Czar? It's like any other place with things that are good like the law against discrimination, This is NOT a good thing when those laws are targeted at individuals and throttling Free Speech,and there is no way you can spin it to justify them.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011
Seriously? Yes,seriously. That's a mandate of fundamental Christianity? Of course not. Just the inevitable result if society were to ever embrace the strictest dicates of Christianity,where the only purpose of sex is to procreate. Taken to it's logical conclusion,even young couples that have trouble conceiving wouldn't be allowed to have sex.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011
Yes,it does. It ALSO protects the majority from the whims and caprices of minorities. Somehow you and the other leftists always seem to overlook THAT. Probably because not a single one of you has the guts to look at the horrors of a democracy because democracy is the root of your foolish belief system. Conspiring to do criminal harm to people andto destroy them is not protected by the First Amendment any more then yelling fire in a crowded theater is. You don't believe that,or you wouldn't support shit like the Civil Wrongs Act of 1964,busing,minority preferences in hiring and promotions,quotas,affirmative action,etc,etc,etc. Twisting the Constitution to serve your problems concerning hatred and immaturity gets you no where. No,it doesn't. Why do you do it?
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011
No argument there. The argument is with the line of thinking that allows (yeah,just like it could be prevented!)heterosexual couples to enjoy recreational sex in private,while denying homosexual couples this same right,and then basing your prejudices on the fact that homosexual couples can't reproduce. I am NOT saying this is what YOU think. I am saying this seems to be what a lot of people on the anti-homosexual bandwagon seem to think. I have no particular love for homosexuals or the "homosexual lifestyle",but this is America,and ALL Americans have the same legal RIGHTS. If the government can get away with using their power to arrest or fine homosexuals for having sex,the government also has the same authority to arrest heterosexuals for having sex. We are either all free,or none of us is free.
"It is impossible to talk reason with those who can only parrot Party Slogans." sneakypete Sept 2011
I agree that's the way it should be. But it seems some groups have (and other groups want) special protections.
Special protections from what? Being legislated against?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
Having their sensitive feeling hurt, dick.
You made the statement, vagina. What "special protections" are "they" demanding beyond wanting to be left alone?
America...My Kind Of Place... "I truly am not that concerned about [bin Laden]..." "THE MILITIA IS COMING!!! THE MILITIA IS COMING!!!" I lurk to see if someone other than Myst or Pookie posts anything...
I already have. It's very common for homosexual couples to add to the ranks of people willing to give good homes to kids that need them. They also use surrogate means to create children other then the ones they may of had with an opposite gender partner. This is a pointless dance on the point of a needle by you as you pick on one way people can be together who do not have the means to bear young. Unless you are a proponent of having means testing to prove fertility for bearing young and prohibiting all others to not be married, you are wasting my time with this foolish argument.
Statues? We have the venerable Rosa Parks in the city bus mall downtown. Eugene Skinner who gave Eugene and Skinner's Butte their names by being the city founder in the 1850s and 60s. We have a statue of Ken kesey at broadway and Willamette Street, which is ground zero in Eugene. And at the Lane County Courthouse is Wayne Lyman Morse in the Wayne Morse Free Speech Plaza. He was a man who served oregon in the Senate well as both a Republican and a Democrat. most notibly he voted against the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution getting us deeply ensconced into the Vietnam War. his ranch is also a city park and is where wild animal rehabilitation takes place locally. The only city museum though is the Sheldon McMurphy Johnson house build by Dr. Shelton on the foot to Skinner's butte in 1888 to replace his first Queen Ann's lace residence which was burned down by disgruntaled workers. he was one of the founders of the Knights of the Golden Order and was very racist, believing non whites should not be allowed perminant residence in Oregon. On the Butte used to be a huge Cross which Eugene Sand and Gravel had put up in the early 60s to replace the series of wooden ones that initially were meant to warn African Americans, Chinese ethnic and other non whites not to hand around should they rail road into the Eugene Rail Station. The cross overlooked that. Prominant local lawyer and former District 4 Representative to the U.S. House of Representatives Charlie Porter lead a long fight that eventually got thhe cross removed as a religious icon that did not belong on public land. that is the long and short of Eugene statues and the like. Except for the other expectibles like the generic Pioneer Woman seated in her 1800s finery at the University of Oregon which also has a couple more that are just blurs in my brain housing group.
Somehow you and the other leftists always seem to overlook THAT." A small religious minority is more in danger of a large one, and the Constitution addresses that. The majorities often have more then enough means to defend themselves and to flourish. The Constitution in this sense just levels the playing feild and makes things fairer for all. I support and have supported Civil Right Legislation, and preferences were meant to be a temperary measure to help make up for some of the injustices of the past. You may not agree with this point of view, which is your right. I also support further legislation to help protect people against bigotry directed at homosexuals, transgendered folks and other people who get turned into wedge issues. And that sort of support is not limited to people on the left side of the political spectrum, it is a great place for righties to reside too.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestNow that is funny. I'd be rooting for you.
#105. To: sneakypete (#104)
#106. To: A K A Stone (#95)
clean out the pumpkin patch You grew pumpkins this year huh. Did they do any good?
My dogs have created more shovel ready jobs than the self appointed Messiah!!!
#107. To: CZ82 (#106)
#108. To: A K A Stone (#98)
They are both against the nautral use of the body.
#109. To: A K A Stone (#99)
(Edited)
Do you think homos should be allowed to adopt?
#110. To: A K A Stone (#107)
Do you freeze the pulp to make pumpkin pies and cookies?
My dogs have created more shovel ready jobs than the self appointed Messiah!!!
#111. To: CZ82 (#110)
#112. To: A K A Stone (#102)
Don't know much about procreation,do you?
#113. To: A K A Stone (#111)
Is the price high? I might come get some of them for pulp. We freeze it and make killer pumpkin cookies.
My dogs have created more shovel ready jobs than the self appointed Messiah!!!
#114. To: A K A Stone (#103)
Yeah the exact same thing I said in my post 93 that you didn't bother with.
#115. To: sneakypete (#112)
Really? Do you really think that each and every case of heterosexual sex results in a pregnancy?
#116. To: sneakypete (#114)
HorseHillary. These are your religious superstitions speaking,NOT facts. Marriage is a CIVIL/SOCIAL act,not a religious act. You and your fellow religious cult members or the members of any other religious cult have a absolute right to determine who may and who may not be married within your religion by one of your cult leaders,but you do NOT have the authority nor will you EVER have the authority to make the determination as to who can and can not be married in a civil ceremony.
#117. To: A K A Stone (#105)
That is a funny rant in light of Obamas assassination and your comments regarding it.
#118. To: A K A Stone (#116)
I'll just call you a dumb ass on this one.
#119. To: sneakypete (#118)
Yup. Just me and that "goddamned piece of paper called the Constitution."
#120. To: A K A Stone (#119)
No one who wrote the constitution or supported it ever dreamed it would be for queer marriage.
#121. To: A K A Stone (#119)
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#122. To: sneakypete (#91)
"Boris has now became a adjective.
#123. To: A K A Stone (#82)
"Mike doesn't have a clue of what is right and wrong. Eugene Oregon has fried his brain."
#124. To: sneakypete (#89)
"Sounds like the leftist Thought Police are in firm control there,doesn't it?"
#125. To: Ferret Mike (#124)
law against discrimination,
#126. To: CZ82 (#83)
That's why men and women were made a certain way
#127. To: sneakypete (#86)
If tomorrow,every human practiced the strictest mandates of fundamental Christianity and ONLY had sex in order to reproduce,the species would fail.
#128. To: A K A Stone (#125)
"Your anti constitutional beliefs are showing again. What do you have against free speech and free association?"
#129. To: sneakypete (#85)
Are you trying to claim people should only have sex when a pregnancy will be the result,and that this should be the law of the land?
#130. To: Ferret Mike, A K A Stone (#128)
I would say the first thig you need to do is to stop stealing the words of another and replacing them with your own. Because on that count alone you have no room to lecture anyone else about the First Amendment.
#131. To: Sebastian (#129)
#132. To: Ferret Mike (#131)
Your argument does not have merit.
#133. To: Ferret Mike (#122)
He is a Polaroid camera in a digital world. his mind is partial phased into anther universe somewhere. But he can be entertaining. That is something an asshole like yukon can't say.
#134. To: Ferret Mike (#124)
Eugene is a university town and was an enclave for the counterculture that has molded it's character and the flavor of life here quite a bit.
#135. To: Sebastian (#127)
If tomorrow,every human practiced the strictest mandates of fundamental Christianity and ONLY had sex in order to reproduce,the species would fail.
#136. To: Ferret Mike (#128)
The U.S. Constitution protects minorities against the whims and caprice of majorities.
#137. To: Sebastian (#129)
My claim is as follows: homosexual acts between humans (as gratifying as those acts may be) cannot and will not result in the furtherance of the species via biological inheritance.
#138. To: sneakypete (#137)
this is America,and ALL Americans have the same legal RIGHTS
#139. To: Sebastian (#138)
But it seems some groups have (and other groups want) special protections.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#140. To: war (#139)
Special protections from what? Being legislated against?
#141. To: Sebastian (#140)
(Edited)
Having their sensitive feeling hurt, dick.
--GW Bush
--Sarah Palin's version of "The Midnight Ride of Paul revere"
#142. To: Sebastian (#132)
"Then you might wish to cite the medical case where human homosexual activity has resulted in pregnancy."
#143. To: sneakypete (#134)
(Edited)
It's more than that,it has always been a communist enclave within the US. Is it Eugene or Portland that has a city park with statues of prominent communists that helped overthrow the Czar?
#144. To: sneakypete (#136)
"Yes, it does. It ALSO protects the majority from the whims and caprices of minorities.
You don't believe that,or you wouldn't support shit like the Civil Wrongs Act of 1964,busing,minority preferences in hiring and promotions,quotas,affirmative action,etc,etc,etc.
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