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Title: 12 arguments evolutionists should avoid.
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/get ... atures/arguments-evolutionists
Published: Jul 16, 2010
Author: answersingenesis.org
Post Date: 2010-07-16 18:49:15 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 120745
Comments: 153

For years, we’ve maintained a list of arguments creationists should avoid. There are enough good arguments for biblical accuracy and a young earth that dubious claims can safely be discarded. Now we want to address a similar topic: arguments evolutionists should avoid. These worn-out tropes have not only passed their expiration date, but they never should have been made to begin with.

Argument1 Evolution is a fact

When our core beliefs are attacked, it’s often easy for humans to retreat to statements such as this: “My belief is a fact, and yours is wrong.” That’s exactly why we cannot trust mere human understanding to explain the unobservable past—emotion and pride get in the way. Evolution is not a fact, no matter how many times evolutionists say it is. It’s a framework built on assumptions about the past—assumptions that will never have direct, first-hand, observational proof.

Argument 2 Only the uneducated reject evolution

Besides the arrogance of such statements, this argument has no footing and should be cast off. Mainly, those who make this claim usually define “educated people” as those who accept evolution. Anyone who disagrees fails the test, no matter what their background (e.g., if we follow this ideology, Isaac Newton must have been uneducated). There are many lists of well-educated scholars who look to the Bible for answers (here’s one)—and we could point out Darwin’s own deficit of formal education (he earned a bachelor’s in theology). But the bigger issue is that education—or lack—does not guarantee the validity of a person’s position.

Argument 3 Overwhelming evidence in all fields of science supports evolution

The irony, of course, is that for centuries prior to Darwin’s publication of On the Origin of Species, the majority of scientists found the opposite to be true: the “evidence” supported creation. What changed? Not the evidence. Rather, the starting point changed (i.e., moving from the Bible, God’s Word, to humanism, man’s word). Creationists continue to see everything in light of God’s Word and all evidence as supporting the biblical account. In reality, there is no “neutral” starting point; everyone—whether they acknowledge it or not—interprets the “facts” according to a particular way of thinking (i.e., worldview).

Argument 4 Doubting evolution is like doubting gravity

Why does this argument fail? We’ll show you. Take a pencil or pen. Hold it in the air. Then drop it to the floor. That’s gravity. Next, make a single-celled organism—like an amoeba—turn into a goat. Go ahead. We’ll wait. . . . No? As you can see, there’s a fundamental difference between operational science, which can be tested through repeatable experimentation, and historical science, which cannot.

Argument 5 Doubting evolution is like believing the earth is flat

Ironically, the Bible describes the earth as round and hanging in space—long before this could have been directly observed (Job 26:10; Isaiah 40:22). The appeal of this claim is that it stereotypes creationists as stuck in the past, since the common assumption is that people once universally believed the earth was flat before science “proved” otherwise (which wasn’t the case—only a few bought into the idea that the earth was flat). But even if this were true (it’s not), direct, repeatable observation shows us the earth is round and orbiting the sun. Evolutionary stories about fossils are not direct observations; they’re assumption-based beliefs.

Argument 6 It’s here, so it must have evolved

A conclusion does not prove the premises are true. That is, if the answer is “four,” we could arrive at that any number of ways: 2 + 2, 5 - 1, etc. In the same way, evolutionists often assume that since certain species or traits exist, this is proof of evolution because that’s how it must have happened. This argument, however, is self-reflexive and useless. The Bible offers another (and more sound) framework for how those traits and species came to be.

Argument 7 Natural selection is evolution

This is likely the most abused argument on the list—and most in need of being scrapped. Often evolutionists bait people into showing them a change that is merely natural selection and then switch to say this proves molecules-to-man evolution. However, this is quite misleading. Natural selection, even according to evolutionists, does not have the power to generate anything “new.” The observable process can only act upon existing characteristics so that some members of a species are more likely to survive. In fact, it’s an important component of the biblical worldview.

Argument 8 Common design means common ancestry

Historical common descent is not and cannot be confirmed through observation. Rather, certain observations are explained by assumptions about the past. These observations, we might add, have alternative explanations. Common body plans (homology), for example, do not prove common descent—that’s an assumption. A common Designer fits the evidence just as well, if not better.

Argument 9 Sedimentary layers show millions of years of geological activity

Sedimentary layers show one thing: sedimentary layers. In other words, we can—and should—study the rocks, but the claim that rocks prove the earth must be billions of years old ignores one important point: such an interpretation is built upon a stack of assumptions. When we start from the Bible and examine the rocks within the framework of a global Flood, the need for long ages vanishes.

Argument 10 Mutations drive evolution

Perhaps because of movies and fiction, the popular idea is that mutations make evolution go. Given enough time, shifts in the genetic code will produce all the variety of plants and animals on earth—and beyond. The problem? Mutations cannot produce the types of changes evolution requires—not even close. Some may benefit an organism (e.g., beetles on a windy island losing wings), but virtually every time mutations come with a cost.

Argument 11 The Scopes trial

Misconceptions about the Scopes trial run rampant. Often, accounts sound something like this: Fundamentalist Christian bigots arrested an innocent biology teacher fighting for scientific freedom, and while they won the court case, they ultimately lost the public perception battle to the well reasoned presentation of the defense. Thanks to the play Inherit the Wind, this common—though completely flawed—perception of the event continues to be used against creationists. But real history presents a much different account.

Argument 12 Science vs. religion

News stories thrive on conflict and intrigue, and one common meme presents science and religion as opposing forces—reason struggling to overcome draconian divine revelation. It grabs attention, but it’s bunk. Many atheists and humanists oppose biblical Christianity, but science does not. After all, the truth of a risen Savior and an inerrant Bible puts quite the damper on the belief that God cannot exist. However, science, as a tool for research, works quite well within (and, in fact, requires) a God-created universe. Otherwise, there’d be no reason to do science in the first place.

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#37. To: A K A Stone (#36)

[snip]

By the way, you keep posting those bullshit threads like the latest one about a plane crash in Shanksville,PA on 9-11, Jethro will probably ban your sorry ass again and probably for good this time. Kapish jew lover? I;m not obsessed with the jews brainless one. I'm concerned over what they are doing to my country and the rest of the world and they are being aided by you jew lovers. People will remember you are one of them when the fighting starts. Your sorry ass will be looked up by the angry masses.

LACUMO posted on 2010-07-17 8:21:54 ET

I see that you're making friends and influencing people over at 4um.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-07-17   9:17:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: no gnu taxes (#0)

Psychopaths take evolution to develop.

In a small group they get eliminated off the bat. ;}

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-17   10:56:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: war (#30)

The Viral Vid Zeitgeist.

The MEME is the same for all organized religions.

Note they're all male dominated.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-17   10:58:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Fred Mertz, A K A Stone, Jethro Tull (#37)

"By the way, you keep posting those bullshit threads like the latest one about a plane crash in Shanksville,PA on 9-11, Jethro will probably ban your sorry ass again and probably for good this time. Kapish jew lover? I;m not obsessed with the jews brainless one. I'm concerned over what they are doing to my country and the rest of the world and they are being aided by you jew lovers. People will remember you are one of them when the fighting starts. Your sorry ass will be looked up by the angry masses."

LACUMO posted on 2010-07-17 8:21:54 ET

Looks to me like this LACUMO has waaaay to much time on his hands. Do you think LACUMO will be leading the way when these 'angry masses' come after your 'sorry ass' stone?

ROTFLMAO......

"Brilliance is typically the act of an individual, but incredible stupidity can usually be traced to an organization."

Murron  posted on  2010-07-17   12:54:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: war (#23)

No one said mutations don't happen.

Padlock's article just did.

Actually, you are making Fred Mertz look like a genious because the article said nothing of the sort.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   13:21:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: no gnu taxes (#41)

Actually, you are making Fred Mertz look like a genious...

Hoo kay...

war  posted on  2010-07-17   13:30:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: war (#42)

Hoo kay...

These guys never seem to be able to shoot straight. lol

"See in my line of work, you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." --- George W. Bush (Rochester NY, 5-24-2005)

mininggold  posted on  2010-07-17   13:36:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: no gnu taxes (#41)

"Evolution is not a fact"...

Evolution of organisms is a fact. Why are we immune?

war  posted on  2010-07-17   13:43:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: no gnu taxes (#0) (Edited)

Evolution is a fact

This alone should tell us that "evolutionists" are not real scientists. Real scientists are open to be proven wrong.

Look what has been happening in astrophysics over the last 15 years. The deeper they peer into the universe, they more they realize how little they know. They have found out that black holes are real, but they have no idea what happens inside of one because our laws of physics break down. They are pretty sure that there was a big bang, but they have no idea what came before, or caused it, so they invented a place holder called a singularity, which means we have no idea what happened because our laws of physics break down. The way stars rotate around galaxies and the speed in which the universe is expanding have cause them to create more place holders called dark matter, dark energy, and dark flow. Again, these are not answers, they are questions.

Over the last 15 years, astrophysicists had have to go back to the drawing board all of the time and they are happy to do so.

On the other hand, evolutionists claim they can't be proven wrong. Like "climatology", this means that evolution is not a science, it's religion (belief system). The people who espouse the infallibility of evolution (or man-made global warming) it shouldn't be taken seriously.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   14:09:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: jwpegler (#45)

Lately, astrophysicists had have to go back to the drawing board all of the time and they are happy to do so.

They do not go back to square one.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   14:11:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: war (#46) (Edited)

They do not go back to square one.

They don't have to because big parts of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics have been proven by experimentation and direct observation. When an experiment / observation does not fit into their theories, they do indeed go back and figure out why. It's happening more frequently and there are a growing number of uncertainties, some of which I mentioned above.

Also, even though experiments / observations have demonstrated the correctness of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, the two are completely incompatible with each other. Physicists don't know how to unify them. There are dozens of approaches to how they might be unified from string theory to multiple universes (membranes), but none of these is stated with the absolutist certainly that evolutionists claim for their theories.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   14:22:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: war (#42)

You should be the last person for making another's typo as a rhetorical argument.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   14:30:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: war (#44) (Edited)

Evolution of organisms is a fact.

Here is the problem in a nutshell:

Mutations within a species ARE indeed a fact.

Evolutions extrapolated the evidence of mutation within a species into a theory that one species can evolve into another. But, evolution of one species into another has never been demonstrated or observed. In spite of this, the evolutionists claim with absolute certainty that their theory that one species can evolve into another is a UNDENIABLE FACT.

That's the issue.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   14:48:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: A K A Stone (#8)

It is you evolutionists who propagate the myth that we come from monkeys. So i'm just pointing out how stupid you folks are on this evolution subject. Afterall if we came from monkeys you folks should have sex with them. It would be ok because it was what we originally came from.

I think you have a point. After all, do wolves have problem with fucking German Shepherds? Of course not

Then, you are right, evolutionists should have no problem with fucking apes.

But evolutionists have a point. I think Michelle Obama's daddy probably did fuck an ape, and they should be using this to fortify their position.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   14:50:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: jwpegler (#49)

species into a theory that one species can evolve into another. But, evolution of one species into another has never been demonstrated or observed.

Careful with this. Species do indeed evolve into other species. But it's a man made classification. Wolves, coyotes, and poodles, are all different species, can all interbreed, and probably all evolved from some common canine. But none of them could ever evolve into a leopard.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   14:54:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: jwpegler (#49) (Edited)

How do you explain Neaderthal?

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:07:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: no gnu taxes (#51)

But none of them could ever evolve into a leopard.

Why would a canine?

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:08:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: no gnu taxes (#51)

I understand your point. Let me clarify.

The broad definition of species has to do with reproduction. Dogs, coyotes, and wolves are all of the Canidae species. They can interbreed with each other. Their were mutations within the species Canidae that gave us not only wolves, dogs and coyotes, but also many sub-species, e.g., red wolves, gray wolves, poodles, German Shepards, etc. Mutations within a species is indeed a proven fact. I don't believe that anyone with who has any knowledge of biology would say otherwise.

The theory of evolution states that todays primates (including humans) all evolved from a common ancestor. However, humans cannot breed with other other primates. Since we can't breed together, we not of the same species, and there is no evidence that one species can evolve into another.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:09:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: jwpegler (#54) (Edited)

The theory of evolution states that todays primates (including humans) all evolved from a common ancestor.

Yepper. As did all the dogs you concede did. Neanderthal DNA has been found in human DNA. We know that the more complex a species becomes that a genetic barrier arises that would prevent inter breeding of different species within an order.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:14:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: war (#52)

How do you explain Neaderthal?

How do you explain them? Because the current theory DOES NOT state that they are human ancestors. They are now thought to be a competing species that co-existed with humans between 30,000 and 50,000 years ago. Knowing us, we probably murdered them all.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:17:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: jwpegler (#56) (Edited)

Knowing us, we probably murdered them all.

Or out ran other carnivores better...

Because the current theory DOES NOT state that they are human ancestors.

I didn't state that they are/were.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:20:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: war (#55)

Yepper. As did all the dogs you concede did.

No, you COMPLETELY missed the point, as usual. Dogs, wolves and coyotes can interbreed. Humans, chimps and baboons cannot. This IS the salient point between a MUTATION within a species and the EVOLUTION of one species into another. There is NO evidence whatsoever for the latter.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:20:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: jwpegler (#58)

Dogs, wolves and coyotes can interbreed. Humans, chimps and baboons cannot.

You need to ping Stone and padlock. This will be news to them.

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there. It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is." - Rush Limbaugh

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-07-17   15:22:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: jwpegler (#58)

They are of the same genus.

Humans and simians are not.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:23:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: war (#60)

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall because you refuse to even acknowledge the salient point of your opponent's argument. You keep dancing around the FUNDAMENTAL issue. I'm not going to waste my time responding to you any longer.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:35:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Skip Intro (#59)

Dogs, wolves and coyotes can interbreed. Humans, chimps and baboons cannot.

You need to ping Stone and padlock. This will be news to them.

Dumbass, I brought up the point to pegler; not that I had to.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   16:31:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: jwpegler (#61)

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall because you refuse to even acknowledge the salient point of your opponent's argument. You keep dancing around the FUNDAMENTAL issue.

They all do.

Geez, they've been effing around with fruit fly gene mutations for what amounts to thousands of human generations and have never been able to come up with anything other than really screwed up fruit flies.

Every knowledgeable person accepts:

mutations (most are horribly detrimental)

natural selection

speciation

NONE of these present evidence of evolution

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   16:36:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: no gnu taxes (#62)

Dumbass, I brought up the point to pegler; not that I had to.

Oh, pardon me padlock. I assumed that after posting "I think Michelle Obama's daddy probably did fuck an ape, and they should be using this to fortify their position." that you're as dumb as Stone.

I guess you're just a racist, but where's the news in that?

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there. It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is." - Rush Limbaugh

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-07-17   16:51:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: war (#27)

Since we evolved from genderless unicellular life into the multi-cellular complex sex crazed organisms that we are now

evidence please. Oh yeah there is none. All the fossil record says FLOOD!

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   17:12:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: jwpegler (#45)

The people who espouse the infallibility of evolution (or man-made global warming) it shouldn't be taken seriously.

They aren't.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   17:14:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: no gnu taxes (#50)

Ok. You got me laughing.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   17:17:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: war (#30)

I'm not the one quoting the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on earth: The Bible.

Everything in the Bible is true and accurate. Lets use the King James Version it is reliable. What in the Bible is a fraud.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   17:18:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: jwpegler (#58)

This IS the salient point between a MUTATION within a species and the EVOLUTION of one species into another.

In dogs they aren't really mutations but different characteristics in the genes. Same with people. Some are black, white etc.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   17:23:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Skip Intro (#64)

Maybe if you'd study Darwin's original works, you'd realize he was making a case blacks were inferior to whites.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   17:26:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: jwpegler (#61)

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall

You have a good point.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   17:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Skip Intro (#64)

You believe in evolution. I don't. Go fuck a monkey.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   17:28:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: jwpegler (#61) (Edited)

As long as you keep arguing ABRA CADABRA you don't have a salient point. Life was not formed by MAGIC.

And until you drop that infantile nonsense, you won't have one either. You're a smart dude, you're worth debating topics with. But this is not one of them.

The earth is BILLIONS of years old. Until you grasp that REALITY you're going to be nowhere near reality when it comes to this topic.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   19:26:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: jwpegler (#61)

You keep dancing around the FUNDAMENTAL issue.

Your "fundamental issue" is to ignore how the genetic tree of a species goes from specific to general. You claim humans cannot breed with apes. As primate, they are several times removed from them. But from Neanderthal, they are but one step removed as are wolves and German Shepards.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   19:31:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: A K A Stone (#68)

Everything.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   19:38:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: A K A Stone (#65)

...evidence please.

You ***think*** the earth is a few thousand years old.

Evidence please.

"The Bible says so" is not evidence.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   19:40:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: no gnu taxes (#70)

Maybe if you'd study Darwin's original works, you'd realize he was making a case blacks were inferior to whites.

And if you'd pull your head out of George Bush's ass you might notice that evolutionary biology has moved far beyond Darwin.

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there. It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is." - Rush Limbaugh

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-07-17   19:47:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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