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Title: 12 arguments evolutionists should avoid.
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/get ... atures/arguments-evolutionists
Published: Jul 16, 2010
Author: answersingenesis.org
Post Date: 2010-07-16 18:49:15 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 120759
Comments: 153

For years, we’ve maintained a list of arguments creationists should avoid. There are enough good arguments for biblical accuracy and a young earth that dubious claims can safely be discarded. Now we want to address a similar topic: arguments evolutionists should avoid. These worn-out tropes have not only passed their expiration date, but they never should have been made to begin with.

Argument1 Evolution is a fact

When our core beliefs are attacked, it’s often easy for humans to retreat to statements such as this: “My belief is a fact, and yours is wrong.” That’s exactly why we cannot trust mere human understanding to explain the unobservable past—emotion and pride get in the way. Evolution is not a fact, no matter how many times evolutionists say it is. It’s a framework built on assumptions about the past—assumptions that will never have direct, first-hand, observational proof.

Argument 2 Only the uneducated reject evolution

Besides the arrogance of such statements, this argument has no footing and should be cast off. Mainly, those who make this claim usually define “educated people” as those who accept evolution. Anyone who disagrees fails the test, no matter what their background (e.g., if we follow this ideology, Isaac Newton must have been uneducated). There are many lists of well-educated scholars who look to the Bible for answers (here’s one)—and we could point out Darwin’s own deficit of formal education (he earned a bachelor’s in theology). But the bigger issue is that education—or lack—does not guarantee the validity of a person’s position.

Argument 3 Overwhelming evidence in all fields of science supports evolution

The irony, of course, is that for centuries prior to Darwin’s publication of On the Origin of Species, the majority of scientists found the opposite to be true: the “evidence” supported creation. What changed? Not the evidence. Rather, the starting point changed (i.e., moving from the Bible, God’s Word, to humanism, man’s word). Creationists continue to see everything in light of God’s Word and all evidence as supporting the biblical account. In reality, there is no “neutral” starting point; everyone—whether they acknowledge it or not—interprets the “facts” according to a particular way of thinking (i.e., worldview).

Argument 4 Doubting evolution is like doubting gravity

Why does this argument fail? We’ll show you. Take a pencil or pen. Hold it in the air. Then drop it to the floor. That’s gravity. Next, make a single-celled organism—like an amoeba—turn into a goat. Go ahead. We’ll wait. . . . No? As you can see, there’s a fundamental difference between operational science, which can be tested through repeatable experimentation, and historical science, which cannot.

Argument 5 Doubting evolution is like believing the earth is flat

Ironically, the Bible describes the earth as round and hanging in space—long before this could have been directly observed (Job 26:10; Isaiah 40:22). The appeal of this claim is that it stereotypes creationists as stuck in the past, since the common assumption is that people once universally believed the earth was flat before science “proved” otherwise (which wasn’t the case—only a few bought into the idea that the earth was flat). But even if this were true (it’s not), direct, repeatable observation shows us the earth is round and orbiting the sun. Evolutionary stories about fossils are not direct observations; they’re assumption-based beliefs.

Argument 6 It’s here, so it must have evolved

A conclusion does not prove the premises are true. That is, if the answer is “four,” we could arrive at that any number of ways: 2 + 2, 5 - 1, etc. In the same way, evolutionists often assume that since certain species or traits exist, this is proof of evolution because that’s how it must have happened. This argument, however, is self-reflexive and useless. The Bible offers another (and more sound) framework for how those traits and species came to be.

Argument 7 Natural selection is evolution

This is likely the most abused argument on the list—and most in need of being scrapped. Often evolutionists bait people into showing them a change that is merely natural selection and then switch to say this proves molecules-to-man evolution. However, this is quite misleading. Natural selection, even according to evolutionists, does not have the power to generate anything “new.” The observable process can only act upon existing characteristics so that some members of a species are more likely to survive. In fact, it’s an important component of the biblical worldview.

Argument 8 Common design means common ancestry

Historical common descent is not and cannot be confirmed through observation. Rather, certain observations are explained by assumptions about the past. These observations, we might add, have alternative explanations. Common body plans (homology), for example, do not prove common descent—that’s an assumption. A common Designer fits the evidence just as well, if not better.

Argument 9 Sedimentary layers show millions of years of geological activity

Sedimentary layers show one thing: sedimentary layers. In other words, we can—and should—study the rocks, but the claim that rocks prove the earth must be billions of years old ignores one important point: such an interpretation is built upon a stack of assumptions. When we start from the Bible and examine the rocks within the framework of a global Flood, the need for long ages vanishes.

Argument 10 Mutations drive evolution

Perhaps because of movies and fiction, the popular idea is that mutations make evolution go. Given enough time, shifts in the genetic code will produce all the variety of plants and animals on earth—and beyond. The problem? Mutations cannot produce the types of changes evolution requires—not even close. Some may benefit an organism (e.g., beetles on a windy island losing wings), but virtually every time mutations come with a cost.

Argument 11 The Scopes trial

Misconceptions about the Scopes trial run rampant. Often, accounts sound something like this: Fundamentalist Christian bigots arrested an innocent biology teacher fighting for scientific freedom, and while they won the court case, they ultimately lost the public perception battle to the well reasoned presentation of the defense. Thanks to the play Inherit the Wind, this common—though completely flawed—perception of the event continues to be used against creationists. But real history presents a much different account.

Argument 12 Science vs. religion

News stories thrive on conflict and intrigue, and one common meme presents science and religion as opposing forces—reason struggling to overcome draconian divine revelation. It grabs attention, but it’s bunk. Many atheists and humanists oppose biblical Christianity, but science does not. After all, the truth of a risen Savior and an inerrant Bible puts quite the damper on the belief that God cannot exist. However, science, as a tool for research, works quite well within (and, in fact, requires) a God-created universe. Otherwise, there’d be no reason to do science in the first place.

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#20. To: A K A Stone (#19)

However this simplistic speculation does not prove that human ethics is nothing but an evolutionary accident specific to our species. Creation being by God, the Divine Law (Revelation) is according to his Will. Prophets from God, such as Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (SAW), by defining God's Intentions and Law, have undeniably had great influence upon the behaviour and culture of societies over the last 20,000 to 40,000 years. Records of traditions and religious artefacts do not extend much earlier than this. These great leaders left their influence upon our societies, culture and behaviour and all claimed that the Creator guided them.

I believe I said not from lunatic crevo sites.

Try again.

I'll check back tomorrow.

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there. It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is." - Rush Limbaugh

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-07-17   0:02:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Skip Intro (#20)

Here ya go. There are about a million choices.

http://www.google.com/search?q=monkey+to+man+evolution&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   0:09:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#19) (Edited)

Prosimian primates...

Were neither simian nor sapien.

Pro, in Greek, means "before"...Latin "forward"...

war  posted on  2010-07-17   8:07:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone (#4)

No one said mutations don't happen.

Padlock's article just did.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   8:10:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: war (#23)

Who the fuck is padlock? No padlock here. What article?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   8:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: war (#23)

On mutations. They are not good.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   8:13:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#24)

Padlock posted the article.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   8:20:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: A K A Stone (#25)

On mutations. They are not good.

Since we evolved from genderless unicellular life into the multi-cellular complex sex crazed organisms that we are now, not all mutations are bad.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   8:24:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: war (#26)

Then you are full of shit. I know for a fact that answers in genesis never says there are no mutations.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   8:30:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: war (#27)

Quit making stuff up. You're not a good story teller.

You can't even answer how chickens got here.

You can't even answer how bees came into existance when they need flowers and flowers need them.

Evolution is a desperate attempt by godless sinners to make themselves feel good. Then there the idiots (people like you) that fall hook line and sinker.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   8:32:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: A K A Stone (#29) (Edited)

Quit making stuff up.

I'm not the one quoting the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on earth: The Bible.

Yea...some guy built a big ass boat and with a handful of people took care of a shitload of animals for 40 days - most of them natural enemies - while some Sky Ghost made it rain

The story of Moses isn't even original. They stole it and adapted it without attribution. Talk about a copyright violation...

war  posted on  2010-07-17   8:38:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: A K A Stone (#28)

I know for a fact that answers in genesis never says there are no mutations.

No wonder you ***think*** Muddbutt is a fucking genius.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   8:40:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: war (#30)

You're going to make his head explode. lolol

I'm heading to the track shortly.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-07-17   8:44:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: war (#31)

Compared to you he is a genius.

The flood is the only logical explanation for fossils in mountains, for fossils in deserts.

You probably just don't want to acknowledge God because your sins are so great.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   8:57:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Fred Mertz (#32)

You going with your chimp?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   8:57:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: A K A Stone (#34)

I'll tell her that you said so.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-07-17   9:01:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Fred Mertz (#35)

Hey Fred I like to give you a hard time sometimes. Especially on age of the earth stuff. But I think you are an ok guy. Have fun at the track and good luck.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-17   9:09:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#36)

[snip]

By the way, you keep posting those bullshit threads like the latest one about a plane crash in Shanksville,PA on 9-11, Jethro will probably ban your sorry ass again and probably for good this time. Kapish jew lover? I;m not obsessed with the jews brainless one. I'm concerned over what they are doing to my country and the rest of the world and they are being aided by you jew lovers. People will remember you are one of them when the fighting starts. Your sorry ass will be looked up by the angry masses.

LACUMO posted on 2010-07-17 8:21:54 ET

I see that you're making friends and influencing people over at 4um.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-07-17   9:17:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: no gnu taxes (#0)

Psychopaths take evolution to develop.

In a small group they get eliminated off the bat. ;}

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-17   10:56:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: war (#30)

The Viral Vid Zeitgeist.

The MEME is the same for all organized religions.

Note they're all male dominated.

mcgowanjm  posted on  2010-07-17   10:58:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Fred Mertz, A K A Stone, Jethro Tull (#37)

"By the way, you keep posting those bullshit threads like the latest one about a plane crash in Shanksville,PA on 9-11, Jethro will probably ban your sorry ass again and probably for good this time. Kapish jew lover? I;m not obsessed with the jews brainless one. I'm concerned over what they are doing to my country and the rest of the world and they are being aided by you jew lovers. People will remember you are one of them when the fighting starts. Your sorry ass will be looked up by the angry masses."

LACUMO posted on 2010-07-17 8:21:54 ET

Looks to me like this LACUMO has waaaay to much time on his hands. Do you think LACUMO will be leading the way when these 'angry masses' come after your 'sorry ass' stone?

ROTFLMAO......

"Brilliance is typically the act of an individual, but incredible stupidity can usually be traced to an organization."

Murron  posted on  2010-07-17   12:54:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: war (#23)

No one said mutations don't happen.

Padlock's article just did.

Actually, you are making Fred Mertz look like a genious because the article said nothing of the sort.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   13:21:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: no gnu taxes (#41)

Actually, you are making Fred Mertz look like a genious...

Hoo kay...

war  posted on  2010-07-17   13:30:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: war (#42)

Hoo kay...

These guys never seem to be able to shoot straight. lol

"See in my line of work, you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." --- George W. Bush (Rochester NY, 5-24-2005)

mininggold  posted on  2010-07-17   13:36:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: no gnu taxes (#41)

"Evolution is not a fact"...

Evolution of organisms is a fact. Why are we immune?

war  posted on  2010-07-17   13:43:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: no gnu taxes (#0) (Edited)

Evolution is a fact

This alone should tell us that "evolutionists" are not real scientists. Real scientists are open to be proven wrong.

Look what has been happening in astrophysics over the last 15 years. The deeper they peer into the universe, they more they realize how little they know. They have found out that black holes are real, but they have no idea what happens inside of one because our laws of physics break down. They are pretty sure that there was a big bang, but they have no idea what came before, or caused it, so they invented a place holder called a singularity, which means we have no idea what happened because our laws of physics break down. The way stars rotate around galaxies and the speed in which the universe is expanding have cause them to create more place holders called dark matter, dark energy, and dark flow. Again, these are not answers, they are questions.

Over the last 15 years, astrophysicists had have to go back to the drawing board all of the time and they are happy to do so.

On the other hand, evolutionists claim they can't be proven wrong. Like "climatology", this means that evolution is not a science, it's religion (belief system). The people who espouse the infallibility of evolution (or man-made global warming) it shouldn't be taken seriously.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   14:09:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: jwpegler (#45)

Lately, astrophysicists had have to go back to the drawing board all of the time and they are happy to do so.

They do not go back to square one.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   14:11:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: war (#46) (Edited)

They do not go back to square one.

They don't have to because big parts of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics have been proven by experimentation and direct observation. When an experiment / observation does not fit into their theories, they do indeed go back and figure out why. It's happening more frequently and there are a growing number of uncertainties, some of which I mentioned above.

Also, even though experiments / observations have demonstrated the correctness of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, the two are completely incompatible with each other. Physicists don't know how to unify them. There are dozens of approaches to how they might be unified from string theory to multiple universes (membranes), but none of these is stated with the absolutist certainly that evolutionists claim for their theories.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   14:22:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: war (#42)

You should be the last person for making another's typo as a rhetorical argument.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   14:30:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: war (#44) (Edited)

Evolution of organisms is a fact.

Here is the problem in a nutshell:

Mutations within a species ARE indeed a fact.

Evolutions extrapolated the evidence of mutation within a species into a theory that one species can evolve into another. But, evolution of one species into another has never been demonstrated or observed. In spite of this, the evolutionists claim with absolute certainty that their theory that one species can evolve into another is a UNDENIABLE FACT.

That's the issue.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   14:48:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: A K A Stone (#8)

It is you evolutionists who propagate the myth that we come from monkeys. So i'm just pointing out how stupid you folks are on this evolution subject. Afterall if we came from monkeys you folks should have sex with them. It would be ok because it was what we originally came from.

I think you have a point. After all, do wolves have problem with fucking German Shepherds? Of course not

Then, you are right, evolutionists should have no problem with fucking apes.

But evolutionists have a point. I think Michelle Obama's daddy probably did fuck an ape, and they should be using this to fortify their position.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   14:50:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: jwpegler (#49)

species into a theory that one species can evolve into another. But, evolution of one species into another has never been demonstrated or observed.

Careful with this. Species do indeed evolve into other species. But it's a man made classification. Wolves, coyotes, and poodles, are all different species, can all interbreed, and probably all evolved from some common canine. But none of them could ever evolve into a leopard.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   14:54:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: jwpegler (#49) (Edited)

How do you explain Neaderthal?

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:07:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: no gnu taxes (#51)

But none of them could ever evolve into a leopard.

Why would a canine?

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:08:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: no gnu taxes (#51)

I understand your point. Let me clarify.

The broad definition of species has to do with reproduction. Dogs, coyotes, and wolves are all of the Canidae species. They can interbreed with each other. Their were mutations within the species Canidae that gave us not only wolves, dogs and coyotes, but also many sub-species, e.g., red wolves, gray wolves, poodles, German Shepards, etc. Mutations within a species is indeed a proven fact. I don't believe that anyone with who has any knowledge of biology would say otherwise.

The theory of evolution states that todays primates (including humans) all evolved from a common ancestor. However, humans cannot breed with other other primates. Since we can't breed together, we not of the same species, and there is no evidence that one species can evolve into another.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:09:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: jwpegler (#54) (Edited)

The theory of evolution states that todays primates (including humans) all evolved from a common ancestor.

Yepper. As did all the dogs you concede did. Neanderthal DNA has been found in human DNA. We know that the more complex a species becomes that a genetic barrier arises that would prevent inter breeding of different species within an order.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:14:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: war (#52)

How do you explain Neaderthal?

How do you explain them? Because the current theory DOES NOT state that they are human ancestors. They are now thought to be a competing species that co-existed with humans between 30,000 and 50,000 years ago. Knowing us, we probably murdered them all.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:17:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: jwpegler (#56) (Edited)

Knowing us, we probably murdered them all.

Or out ran other carnivores better...

Because the current theory DOES NOT state that they are human ancestors.

I didn't state that they are/were.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:20:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: war (#55)

Yepper. As did all the dogs you concede did.

No, you COMPLETELY missed the point, as usual. Dogs, wolves and coyotes can interbreed. Humans, chimps and baboons cannot. This IS the salient point between a MUTATION within a species and the EVOLUTION of one species into another. There is NO evidence whatsoever for the latter.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:20:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: jwpegler (#58)

Dogs, wolves and coyotes can interbreed. Humans, chimps and baboons cannot.

You need to ping Stone and padlock. This will be news to them.

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there. It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is." - Rush Limbaugh

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-07-17   15:22:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: jwpegler (#58)

They are of the same genus.

Humans and simians are not.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:23:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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