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Title: 12 arguments evolutionists should avoid.
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/get ... atures/arguments-evolutionists
Published: Jul 16, 2010
Author: answersingenesis.org
Post Date: 2010-07-16 18:49:15 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 120602
Comments: 153

For years, we’ve maintained a list of arguments creationists should avoid. There are enough good arguments for biblical accuracy and a young earth that dubious claims can safely be discarded. Now we want to address a similar topic: arguments evolutionists should avoid. These worn-out tropes have not only passed their expiration date, but they never should have been made to begin with.

Argument1 Evolution is a fact

When our core beliefs are attacked, it’s often easy for humans to retreat to statements such as this: “My belief is a fact, and yours is wrong.” That’s exactly why we cannot trust mere human understanding to explain the unobservable past—emotion and pride get in the way. Evolution is not a fact, no matter how many times evolutionists say it is. It’s a framework built on assumptions about the past—assumptions that will never have direct, first-hand, observational proof.

Argument 2 Only the uneducated reject evolution

Besides the arrogance of such statements, this argument has no footing and should be cast off. Mainly, those who make this claim usually define “educated people” as those who accept evolution. Anyone who disagrees fails the test, no matter what their background (e.g., if we follow this ideology, Isaac Newton must have been uneducated). There are many lists of well-educated scholars who look to the Bible for answers (here’s one)—and we could point out Darwin’s own deficit of formal education (he earned a bachelor’s in theology). But the bigger issue is that education—or lack—does not guarantee the validity of a person’s position.

Argument 3 Overwhelming evidence in all fields of science supports evolution

The irony, of course, is that for centuries prior to Darwin’s publication of On the Origin of Species, the majority of scientists found the opposite to be true: the “evidence” supported creation. What changed? Not the evidence. Rather, the starting point changed (i.e., moving from the Bible, God’s Word, to humanism, man’s word). Creationists continue to see everything in light of God’s Word and all evidence as supporting the biblical account. In reality, there is no “neutral” starting point; everyone—whether they acknowledge it or not—interprets the “facts” according to a particular way of thinking (i.e., worldview).

Argument 4 Doubting evolution is like doubting gravity

Why does this argument fail? We’ll show you. Take a pencil or pen. Hold it in the air. Then drop it to the floor. That’s gravity. Next, make a single-celled organism—like an amoeba—turn into a goat. Go ahead. We’ll wait. . . . No? As you can see, there’s a fundamental difference between operational science, which can be tested through repeatable experimentation, and historical science, which cannot.

Argument 5 Doubting evolution is like believing the earth is flat

Ironically, the Bible describes the earth as round and hanging in space—long before this could have been directly observed (Job 26:10; Isaiah 40:22). The appeal of this claim is that it stereotypes creationists as stuck in the past, since the common assumption is that people once universally believed the earth was flat before science “proved” otherwise (which wasn’t the case—only a few bought into the idea that the earth was flat). But even if this were true (it’s not), direct, repeatable observation shows us the earth is round and orbiting the sun. Evolutionary stories about fossils are not direct observations; they’re assumption-based beliefs.

Argument 6 It’s here, so it must have evolved

A conclusion does not prove the premises are true. That is, if the answer is “four,” we could arrive at that any number of ways: 2 + 2, 5 - 1, etc. In the same way, evolutionists often assume that since certain species or traits exist, this is proof of evolution because that’s how it must have happened. This argument, however, is self-reflexive and useless. The Bible offers another (and more sound) framework for how those traits and species came to be.

Argument 7 Natural selection is evolution

This is likely the most abused argument on the list—and most in need of being scrapped. Often evolutionists bait people into showing them a change that is merely natural selection and then switch to say this proves molecules-to-man evolution. However, this is quite misleading. Natural selection, even according to evolutionists, does not have the power to generate anything “new.” The observable process can only act upon existing characteristics so that some members of a species are more likely to survive. In fact, it’s an important component of the biblical worldview.

Argument 8 Common design means common ancestry

Historical common descent is not and cannot be confirmed through observation. Rather, certain observations are explained by assumptions about the past. These observations, we might add, have alternative explanations. Common body plans (homology), for example, do not prove common descent—that’s an assumption. A common Designer fits the evidence just as well, if not better.

Argument 9 Sedimentary layers show millions of years of geological activity

Sedimentary layers show one thing: sedimentary layers. In other words, we can—and should—study the rocks, but the claim that rocks prove the earth must be billions of years old ignores one important point: such an interpretation is built upon a stack of assumptions. When we start from the Bible and examine the rocks within the framework of a global Flood, the need for long ages vanishes.

Argument 10 Mutations drive evolution

Perhaps because of movies and fiction, the popular idea is that mutations make evolution go. Given enough time, shifts in the genetic code will produce all the variety of plants and animals on earth—and beyond. The problem? Mutations cannot produce the types of changes evolution requires—not even close. Some may benefit an organism (e.g., beetles on a windy island losing wings), but virtually every time mutations come with a cost.

Argument 11 The Scopes trial

Misconceptions about the Scopes trial run rampant. Often, accounts sound something like this: Fundamentalist Christian bigots arrested an innocent biology teacher fighting for scientific freedom, and while they won the court case, they ultimately lost the public perception battle to the well reasoned presentation of the defense. Thanks to the play Inherit the Wind, this common—though completely flawed—perception of the event continues to be used against creationists. But real history presents a much different account.

Argument 12 Science vs. religion

News stories thrive on conflict and intrigue, and one common meme presents science and religion as opposing forces—reason struggling to overcome draconian divine revelation. It grabs attention, but it’s bunk. Many atheists and humanists oppose biblical Christianity, but science does not. After all, the truth of a risen Savior and an inerrant Bible puts quite the damper on the belief that God cannot exist. However, science, as a tool for research, works quite well within (and, in fact, requires) a God-created universe. Otherwise, there’d be no reason to do science in the first place.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 151.

#2. To: no gnu taxes (#0)

Evolution is not a fact

That's a lie. We see it in disease all the time.

war  posted on  2010-07-16   21:15:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: war (#2)

No one said mutations don't happen. When do new species emerge? NEVER!

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-07-16   21:34:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone (#4)

No one said mutations don't happen.

Padlock's article just did.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   8:10:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: war (#23)

No one said mutations don't happen.

Padlock's article just did.

Actually, you are making Fred Mertz look like a genious because the article said nothing of the sort.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   13:21:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: no gnu taxes (#41)

"Evolution is not a fact"...

Evolution of organisms is a fact. Why are we immune?

war  posted on  2010-07-17   13:43:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: war (#44) (Edited)

Evolution of organisms is a fact.

Here is the problem in a nutshell:

Mutations within a species ARE indeed a fact.

Evolutions extrapolated the evidence of mutation within a species into a theory that one species can evolve into another. But, evolution of one species into another has never been demonstrated or observed. In spite of this, the evolutionists claim with absolute certainty that their theory that one species can evolve into another is a UNDENIABLE FACT.

That's the issue.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   14:48:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: jwpegler (#49)

species into a theory that one species can evolve into another. But, evolution of one species into another has never been demonstrated or observed.

Careful with this. Species do indeed evolve into other species. But it's a man made classification. Wolves, coyotes, and poodles, are all different species, can all interbreed, and probably all evolved from some common canine. But none of them could ever evolve into a leopard.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-07-17   14:54:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: no gnu taxes (#51)

I understand your point. Let me clarify.

The broad definition of species has to do with reproduction. Dogs, coyotes, and wolves are all of the Canidae species. They can interbreed with each other. Their were mutations within the species Canidae that gave us not only wolves, dogs and coyotes, but also many sub-species, e.g., red wolves, gray wolves, poodles, German Shepards, etc. Mutations within a species is indeed a proven fact. I don't believe that anyone with who has any knowledge of biology would say otherwise.

The theory of evolution states that todays primates (including humans) all evolved from a common ancestor. However, humans cannot breed with other other primates. Since we can't breed together, we not of the same species, and there is no evidence that one species can evolve into another.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:09:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: jwpegler (#54) (Edited)

The theory of evolution states that todays primates (including humans) all evolved from a common ancestor.

Yepper. As did all the dogs you concede did. Neanderthal DNA has been found in human DNA. We know that the more complex a species becomes that a genetic barrier arises that would prevent inter breeding of different species within an order.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:14:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: war (#55)

Yepper. As did all the dogs you concede did.

No, you COMPLETELY missed the point, as usual. Dogs, wolves and coyotes can interbreed. Humans, chimps and baboons cannot. This IS the salient point between a MUTATION within a species and the EVOLUTION of one species into another. There is NO evidence whatsoever for the latter.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:20:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: jwpegler (#58)

They are of the same genus.

Humans and simians are not.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   15:23:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: war (#60)

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall because you refuse to even acknowledge the salient point of your opponent's argument. You keep dancing around the FUNDAMENTAL issue. I'm not going to waste my time responding to you any longer.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-17   15:35:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: jwpegler (#61) (Edited)

As long as you keep arguing ABRA CADABRA you don't have a salient point. Life was not formed by MAGIC.

And until you drop that infantile nonsense, you won't have one either. You're a smart dude, you're worth debating topics with. But this is not one of them.

The earth is BILLIONS of years old. Until you grasp that REALITY you're going to be nowhere near reality when it comes to this topic.

war  posted on  2010-07-17   19:26:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: war (#73) (Edited)

Once again, you are not actually reading and comprehending anything that I have written:

Life was not formed by MAGIC

I never said it was. In fact I never asserted any position on how life was formed. I merely asserted that evolution is a belief system and not a science because evolutionists claim that their unproven theories cannot be refuted.

The earth is BILLIONS of years old. Until you grasp that REALITY you're going to be nowhere near reality when it comes to this topic.

Where did I ever assert that the earth wasn't billions of years old? Where??? Show me. You can't. Once again, you aren't reading and comprehending. Instead, you are making things up.

And until you drop that infantile nonsense

Making up imaginary situations and responding to them is exactly what children do to play. That is what you are doing here.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-18   12:16:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: jwpegler, A K A Stone (#114)

I merely asserted that evolution is a belief system and not a science because evolutionists claim that their unproven theories cannot be refuted.

There are some who believed that GRAVITY was a theory. There were some who believed that Galileo was a heretic and that the heavens and earth were fixed.

Evolution IS a branch of biological science. It is INSANITY to claim that BIOLOGY is not science. Much of evolution HAS been proven. And to claim that evolutionary scientists do not tweak their theories is to confess ignorance. Do yourself a favor, subscribe to American Scientist for a year or so and then come back and tell me they don't tweak their theories.

Where did I ever assert that the earth wasn't billions of years old?

Okay...you have me there. I believed that you were agreeing with Stone who believes that the earth is ~6k years old. I apologize.

But now that you agree that the earth IS billions of years old, how hard is it to comprehend that ALL life evolved from one form back in its genetic tree? I don't find it difficult at all.

war  posted on  2010-07-18   12:52:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: war (#117) (Edited)

There are some who believed that GRAVITY was a theory

Gravity WAS INDEED a theory postulated by Newton. Then it was proven to be a close approximation of observable reality. Then the notion of gravity was completely changed by Einstein (gravity is not an external force, but rather a consequence of the curvature of spacetime). This has been proven by every experiment and observation over the last several decades.

Evolution has NOT been proven by experimentation and observation. To deny that it can be dis-proven makes it a belief system, not a science.

It is INSANITY to claim that BIOLOGY is not science

Where have I claimed that? Where??? Again, you are making things up that aren't true.

how hard is it to comprehend that ALL life evolved from one form back in its genetic tree?

Go out to http://secondlife.com/whatis/?lang=en-US and create a person. No evolution is necessary. In 80 to 100 years, we'll be able to create a simulation like the Matrix. Think about it.

There are many possibilities on how the universe and life came into existence. Evolution is just one of the many possibilities, none of which have been proven through experimentation or observation. Evolution is absolutely NOT an undeniable fact.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-18   13:17:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: jwpegler (#120)

Where have I claimed that? Where???

I merely asserted that evolution is a belief system and not a science...

jwpegler posted on 2010-07-18 12:16:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Evolution is a Biological science.

war  posted on  2010-07-18   14:20:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: war (#128)

Evolution is a Biological science.

They claim their theory can't be dis-proven, so by definition it is not a science. It's a belief system.

Until the evolutionists start acting like scientists, I won't treat them as scientists.

Geneticists are scientists. Bio-chemists are scientists. Evolutionists are not.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-18   14:46:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: jwpegler (#131)

They claim their theory can't be dis-proven, so by definition it is not a science.

Wha...huh?

The whole of a theory does not have to be subject to falsification once that critical elements have been proven.

war  posted on  2010-07-18   16:46:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: war (#134)

once that critical elements have been proven

NO critical elements have been proven with regards to one species evolving into a new one.

We can measure how planets orbit stars. The measurements tell us that the theory of relativity is correct in its predictions of how gravity affects mass in the universe. YET, astrophysicists know that they might have to jettison the entire standard model of physics if they can't find the Higgs Boson or if placeholders called singularities, dark matter, dark energy, and dark flow turn cannot be proven.

We have never seen one species evolve into another. There have been no experiments, measurements or observations for this. YET, evolutionists claim that their theories are absolute fact, which can never be dis-proven. It's a religion, not a science.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-18   16:52:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: jwpegler (#141)

NO critical elements have been proven with regards to one species evolving into a new one.

...he said ignoring the whole of transitional fossils...

war  posted on  2010-07-18   20:54:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: war (#146) (Edited)

...he said ignoring the whole of transitional fossils...

I've been waiting for you to bring that up. The only thing fossils prove is that there were species on earth that no longer exist. There is no evidence in the fossil record of one species evolving into another. This is nothing more than a hypothesis. An unproven hypothesis is NOT an irrefutable fact, as evolutionists claim. Anyone who thinks that their unproven theories are undeniable facts is running a religion, not a science.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-19   10:32:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#150. To: jwpegler (#149) (Edited)

There is no evidence in the fossil record of one species evolving into another.

Sure there is. It's found in certain elements of the fossil. IN early species you may see a bit of a change in how the mandibles work and then in a later one that same element with a change in the structure of the foot.

Creationists obsfuscate exactly WHAT transitional fossils are - believing that they are some OVERALL intermediary species when, in fact, it could be something as simple as a change in jaw structure or the emergence or pre-emergence of digits...there are hundreds of millions of years between what everything is now versus what it was even 200MM years ago let alone the 2MM when homo hablis emerged.

war  posted on  2010-07-19   11:32:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: war (#150) (Edited)

IN early species yop may see a bit of a change in how the mandibles work and then in a latyer one that same element with a change in the structure of the foot.

These are called mutations that let a species better adapt to their environments.

People who are native to equatorial regions tend to have more melanin in their skin and hair which helps protect them from the sun. Light skinned people and dark skinned people are still humans who can breed with each other.

Same with wolves, dogs, and coyotes.

There is no proven evidence of speciation -- one species evolving into another such that the new species can no longer breed with it's parent.

It's just a theory.

Other scientists (not Creationists) have theories, based on quantum mechanics, that we are living in a hologram and possibly something akin to a computer simulation.

Also, what is DNA? It's information. Instead of two codes (binary), it's based on 4 codes. Scientists have just created the first synthetic, self-replicating life, with man-made DNA. Our genetic code is just software.

If this is a computer simulation, the programmer could create whatever he wanted, no evolution necessary.

Given what we know about quantum entanglement, DNA, our own abilities to create virtual worlds (like Second Life) and the fact that computer performance is doubling every 13 months, this is as plausible a theory as any other for how the universe came into being and how we got here. Of course, like evolution, it's not proven, but there is a growing body of evidence for it.

The universe as a hologram / computer simulation fits with the notion of creationism, with God being kind of a computer programmer who created what we know as the universe.

jwpegler  posted on  2010-07-19   11:59:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 151.

#152. To: jwpegler (#151)

These are called mutations that let a species better adapt to their environments.

The problem with the word "mutation" is that it has an associative pitfall to it. What I've beein reading for the last several years in terms of genetic changes is that it might not be an outright mutation but a series of subtle changes to how gene signals are transmitted. In other words, it's not ONE mutated gene happening at once that results in the adapatation but a slight change in signal that results in yet another change which brings another change.

Our genetic code is just software.

That observation is over a decade old...

war  posted on  2010-07-19 12:04:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 151.

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